tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC June 30, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
change? why the name bodie pittsburgh boat face? usual officials held a contest to name a ship a few months back. officials not wanting to sulli the name of a full plane ship with that title decided that this little guy could have it instead. which begs the question, shouldn't that be stub by mcstub face? no one asked me, though, i guess it doesn't really matter what i think. >> that will wrap things up for me this hour. we appreciate you giving me the license to talk about bodie mcboatface before i talk to you on this holiday weekend. >> before you talk to me angry mcangry face? have yourself a fantastic afternoon, katy tur, all right. as president trump prepares for his trip to new jersey for the fourth of july weekend, he is shaking up the conversation on health care in a very big way. right now the senate health care
bill is stalled after eight republican senator versus come out in opposition to the plans that president trump tweeted earlier today, if republican senators are unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately repeal and then replace at a later date, the tweet came right after senator ben sass sent a letter to president trump urging him to first repeal then spend august working on a replacement, because that's been so successful. if nothing can be done by july 10th, it's time for a new strategy. >> i am suggesting mr. trump and he has embrace this morning the proposal we should vote on that old repeal bill again, but we should do one really important thing to it, put in place a one-year delay before its effective. vote on repeal but not have it go into effect for a year so families whof the certainty of knowing that their policy wasn't going to evaporate immediately, then the president should ask the congress to cancel our august state work period and we
should stay in session working 18th hours a day, six days a week for all of august and we should vote by labor day on an actual replace plan. i want repeal and i want replace. if we can do those two together in one legislative package i'm good at that. if we fail at that, we should separate the two. we made a promise to repeal obamacare. we should keep our promises. >> that was a lot in the clip. you had to hear a lot of it. appeal now, delay the appeal for a year, replace in the middle of it. very confusing. much easier said tan done by the way t. question remains if more moderate republican seniors like susan collins an dean heller would be on board for that very complicated plan that ben sass presents. from the white house to capitol hill, we have every angle of today's news covered for you. let's start with kristen welker following the latest from the white house this afternoon, huckabee sanders just talked about the health care bill in her off camera briefing. what are you hearing from white
house officials? do they believe this repeal then replace is a realistic fact? >> reporter: well, they are indicating. they say the president's thinking on this hasn't changed. he wants to see repeal an replacement. of course, what makes it so politically risky to repeal now and then put off replacement for an buyentire year is there is n reason to think they can get it done in a year's time. it would be devastating for those that lose their coverage. that's why there is so much trepidation, quite frank limit. it was a short briefing, 16 minutes, most of it was dominated by talk of health care. what is the white house strategy going forward? here's what huck a besanders had to say, take a listen. >> this runs counter to what the president has been running earlier this year and in his campaign, it had to gen if not same tainious as least close.
what is the basis for his clang in thinking on this? >> the president hasn't changed his thinking at all. he's campaigned on, talked about since he was elected repealing and replacing obamacare. we are still fully committed to pushing through with the senate at this point. but we're, you know, looking at every possible option of repealing and replacing obamacare. we are focused on doing that. as i said earlier, there is another large amount of counties that now have no obamacare provider and so we're continuing to work hard to repeal and replace obamacare and that hasn't changed. >> reporter: part of what's critical about what sarah huckabee sanders said, you we heard her stress they are still committed to seeing this senate pass this ledges london attacks now. of course, leadser mcconally e el, his strategy is to come back from the fourth of july recess and get the done before august, that time line is so critical as you know, because if august, there are some real dead lines, particularly when the fall comes
around and they have to deal with things like the debt ceiling. so the white house insisting that the tragedy hasn't changed. president trump about to sign an executive order and then he heads away for the holiday weekend. >> thank you very much, kristen welker at the white house. i want to bring in eric haig. he is covering the developments on capitol hill this afternoon. garrett, i'm glad we played all of what ben sass had to say about this. because this is remarkably complicated. a little bit cynical and highly political t. point is if you replace, repeal without replacing, you fulfill a campaign promise but you lose health care. >> that's right. and this congress already has a very full calendar the rest of the year. there is a lot to get done. you are saying, let's take two incredibly divisive and complicated votes instead of just one. this is more likely a distraction than a policy action here. when you had this letter from
ben sass, he has been quiet, hasn't really weighed in, agreed to by the president and rand paul i think we can put up on the screen here, the junior senator from kentucky says he spoke to senate leadership about this. they agree, keep working on repeal this idea of replacing or repeal first replace later. that's not been the republic strategy and you hear kristen talk about the white house strategy. this is mitch mcconnell's building and caucus he's the one that will set the senate strategy, it will sound more like rand paul said in january when he, the predecessor and the leadership were all on the same page about this. take a listen. >> i think it's imperative that republicans do a replacement simultaneous to repeal. if they don't, obamacare
continues to unrav em. it's a huge mistake for republicans if they do not vote for replacement on this statement day we vote for repeal. >> obviously, martin luther king jr. connell is trying to point out t. house has already voted on this, the last thing i think speaker ryan would want to do is go back and start from scratch all over on this, too, i think we will be mostly focused on the mcconnell effort to unify senators going forward. >> at least until that effort continues. thank you very much. let's bring you up to speed. we don't have a skr bo score of what repealing obamacare without replacing it would look like if republicans simply appealed obamacare in the near future. since house republicans have voted over 50 times to symbolically repeal obamacare when president obama was in office, we've got a glimpsef what it might look like. back in 2011, the cbo projected
that a full repeal of the law would result in 33 million people losing health care within a decade so that's bigger than the cbo estimates for the house or the senate bill. back in january the cbo projected that a partial repeople of obamacare would cause 32 million people to loez lose their health care over the next ten years. we should note this week's cbo score projected in 2026 there would be 22 million more people without insurance than there would have been under obamacare. i don't like to use a language lose insurance. because that itself not necessarily true. some people will choose not the insure, so it's just that there will be 22 million people fewer with insurance than there would have been with obamacare under, by 2026. i want to bring in republican congressman bradley burn of alabama. congressman, good to have you here thanks, for being with us. >> it's good to be here. >> there is confusing, largely
because we saw rand paul change his mind on this in fact, donald trump, himself, was on "60 minutes" in november, let's just listen to what he had to say about it. >> and there's going to be a period if you repeal it and before you replace it when millions of people -- >> not lose, we will do it simultaneously, it will be just fine. we will not have a two-day period or a two-year period where there's nothing. it will be repealed and replaced and we'll know and it will be great health care for much less money. >> that's not what you -- you didn't run on changing opinions on all this, right? how do you feel about all this? >> we all ran on repeal and replace. >> right. >> repeal is half the job. repeal and replace is all of the job. i appreciate the senator's idea, he will come up with other things that they can come up with over there in the senate t. house will want a repeal and
replace package towing, one bill, one concept, go for it altogether at the same time. >> so i'm with you that i appreciate people at capitol hill coming up with inventive ideas, but given the remarkable difficulty in getting this senate bill passed as is, not only is mitch mcconnell short of voerkts he's short of some votes who think it's too conservative, some think it's too moderate. this thinking to repeal and then under some kind of artificial deadline get the replaced bill done doesn't seem politically feasible with the congressional makeup that we've got right now. >> i don't think it is either. here's the problem. this is a rescue mission and while we're taking all this time to get this bill put together, this program continues to fall apart. you give it another years ago it will fall all the way apart. we don't want that, because people will be hurt in that process. so we want to come up with our replacement and repeal so we can get everything started to make sure we are taking care of
people before this thing falls all the way apart. >> so i guess the issue is, congressman, it's not really going to fall all the way apart. in fact, there is no math under which it would. the number of people in the individual markets is 11 million. right? some people didn't have insurance before because obamacare pan dated that they would. some of those people are middle class is earners who don't get a subsidy and their premiums went up. so it's a percentage of 11 million people who you want to use the death spiral falling apart analogies, they're the ones affected by that 70s million people are on medicaid, nothing is falling apart for them at all. in fact, most of obamacare is not falling apart at all? >> well, i disagree with that. for people that will have zero providers of insurance on their exchanges at the end of the year, it's fallen apart for them. for people in places like alabama where we have uninsurer, they have no choice that that's a threat right now, then they're going to have no health care carrier. so i've got to disagree with you
for them. for the 28,000 people in my district that are on obamacare, it's going to fall apart. >> i think we're not disagreeing on stuff. i'm saying to you that a percentage of an absolute total of 11 million people who are on the individual markets are the only ones at jeopardy, that's not, not serious. you are very right. for those people it is. but most of obamacare is ped cade expansion. it wasn't actually the intent. but that's what it has become. so for most people with insurance in america obamacare is not falling apart? >> well, that's because most people with insurance in america aren't on obamacare. they're on employer-provided health insurance. >> nobody is on obama -- there is no such thing, there is no obamacare card. you are saying certain individual market, certain individual insurance markets are facing the difficulty that you have really well described. >> what we're seeing is one after the other. it's not like it's one place or this place, there seems to be a
series of these. >> all i'm trying to say, you and i can agree the toll number of people in the individual markets in america is under 11 million? >> it's somewhere around there. >> somewhere around there, type, we can agree zbree on that. it's a portion of those people who may be very, very badly affected be di way obamacare is going, that's what we are talking about, not all the people on medicaid? >> not all the people on medicaid. >> which is 70 million people. >> the people that are in that market, in on these obamacare exchanges, it's going to fall apart for them the 28,000 people like that in my district i care about them. >> and i support that. are you prepared to do what some republican senators have been saying over the last week, if this senate bill doesn't go anywhere, it is time for republicans and dra itself to come together and come up with a bill that meets some of your expectations and some of theirs? >> i have never been opposed to working with the democrats on
this. in fact when leader pelosi came before the rules committee when we had the health care bill ffr before us, i said, tell us what the democratic solution is. we never got the democratic solution i asked several times since then the truth of the smatter there is no democratic solution unless we have the government running everything. >> that's not really true either, sir? >> every person i talked to brings up single care. >> that may be true, every democrat that you have spoken to, you know 34 out of the 35 riches countries in the world have universal health care, vacate countries have universal health care, single payer is one form. you don't have to go that way? >> well, that's what the democrats and the house, a great many of them are telling me. what they want us to do is to go to that. so i take that as their alternative, their alternative is not acceptable to the vast majority of american people. we need to continue to work together to come up with a solution that we have been working on for the last several months, the senate will come back after the fourth of july recess.
i think we will get a bill out of the senate in july. >> i appreciate this conversation. now when i'm speaking to democrats, i'm going to ask them if they can consider other forms of universal health coverage for a lot of people that may not be single payer system if that doesn't appeal to you. i appreciate the conversation. >> or any fix for this problem. so far, they've not offered anything? i don't know that to be true. but i will take you at your word that that's what democrats you spoken to said so. thank you. he's a republican from alabama. all right, coming up next, south korea's president is with president trump, he goes after north korea. >> together we are facing the threat of the reckless and brutal regime in north korea. the north korean dictatorship has no regard for the safety and security of its people or its neighbors and has no respect for human life. >> with president moon jae-in
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ballistic prooms alongside their brand-new president moon jae-in, in the backdrop, china's president condemning the united states' latest $1.4 billion arms deal with taiwan. joining me a former deputy for asian and specific affairs under barack obama. allen who served under president george w. bush. great to see both of you. i always feel a lit better when we talk about north korea to have you both there. kelly, let me start with you. it is important for americans to understand that when we see the president of the united states standing by the president of south korea, where there are 23.5,000 u.s. troops, a strategic allie, missile batteries. while they both don't like north korea and what they're doing, the aims are different or the ways in wish they wish to get to those aims is a little bit different? >> yeah, a couple observations,
stood most important goal for president trump and president moon was to build a relationship. there is what of an odd couple on the world stage, both of them share the same goal, of course, of denuclearization of the korean peninsula, come at it at different approaches, president moon takes a much more aggressive approach on emphasis in engaging the forth koreans and president trump and his administration decided a coarse approach. the task was to get on the same page with north korea strategy. >> sorry, kelly, go ahead. >> sure. i think the jury is still out whether or not they are on the same page. >> yep. >> but tern certainly, that is something they had in mind. >> let me talk business. i want to show our viewers the trade deficit, the amount america buys from south korea that's different from what we sell it n. 2011, it was 13.2 billion. it's now up to 27.7 billion.
when asked about south korea in the press briefing, here's what sarah huckabee sanders had to say about it. >> on korea, look the president's made clear throughout the campaign and again, he is looking for the best deal possible for american workers, specifically focused on reciprocal trade. >> that is the primary focus of the conversations he's had. >> michael the reason this is relevant, is donald trump took the same approach with moon jae-in he takes with everybody, including the canadians, every time i talk with any world leader, i will try to get the best deal for americans possible. is that weird mixing this trade negotiation, discussion with this strategic military discussion, is it a coercion of sorts to say to president moon, if we don't fix this trade deficit thing, maybe you don't have american support for everything you are trying to do with north korea? >> i don't think so. i think president trump made
clear the north korean issue is an issue whose time has come. we can't ignore it army. we ha -- anymore. we can walk and chew gum at the same time. i think we can pursue our economic interests. i'm not sure i agree with president trump that the trade deficit is the best indicator of our economic relationship with them, but i think the relationship can survive and thrive by having security issues in one lane an those are clearly preeminent and economic issues in another lane. >> okay. kelly, let me ask you this, i think i ask you this every time i see you, a lot of americans think that china is our best solution to north korea. clearly, president trump expressing some dissatisfaction with that relationship. we have just imposed sanctions on a chinese bank that does business with north korea and have announced an arms deal is with taiwan, the 69ese are
furious, are we doing the right thing or the wrong thing? sfwr i actually think we are doing the right thing. we have been holding in obeyance for quite some time. i think this is the beginning of the pivot. i also think the pivot is coming on trade in general with the chinese. i was struck today frankly that president trump used the cabinet room meeting with president trump moon to sort of publicly sort of dress him down on the trade imbalances and he let secretary will lure ross kind of gee go through all the data. the one thing you don't want to try to embarrass the president if public. i think it's one thing to talk about a trade imbalance and correct the u.s. trade agreement, to do it if public i think was the wrong approach. >> good to talk to you, thank you so much. michael allen as well. thanks to both of you on the topic of north korea. we will be covering it a lot more. i got breaking news right now,
in the bronx, police are on the scene responding to an active shooting at the bronx lebanon hospital center. so far one person has been shot t. fire accident the on the scene as well. there are reports of smoke on several floors of the hospital. bronx lebanon hospital is the largest non-profit hospital in the south bronx. it's a very, very important hospital for the area, for those people in the new york area, who are familiar with it. it's on the grand concourse in the bronx. it is a private hospital. but it is a not for profit hospital primary center of care for the residence in the south bronx and in general for the bronx. we do have multiple different reports come income of gunshots at least one person shot and the fire department on seen as there are reports of smoke coming from several floors of the hospital. the new york police department has tweeted due to reports of a
shooting incident at bronx lebanon hospital, avoid the area of 1650 grand concourse. >> that is the address for bronx lebanon hospital. police are asking people to avoid the area. there are other reports that we have not confirmed independently at nbc news that there may be more than one person shot there. we are on the story, we will bring you more as we get it from bronx lebanon hospital in the south bronx. coming up next, if you vote, president trump's voter fraud commission wants to know your name, your address, your date of birth, your party affiliation the last four digits of your social security number and the voting history since 2006. does the president know something that no one else wants to know? we will talk to you after the break.
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objection. we all remember when the president falsely claimed that millions of americans voted illegally in the november election. ters this tweet sent less than three weeks after the election, where he claimed he won the popular vote, only if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. millions. in january, he said he was going
to be asking for an investigation into voter fraud and depending on the results, the administration would strengthen up voting procedures. seven weeks ago, the president created the presidential commission on election integrity. it's aim was to investigate alleged voter fraud. now that commission has sent this letter to all 50 states plus washington, d.c. asking for their feedback on elect integrity and most importantly on the second page of it, voter role data. several states have come out against the requests for voter roll data, including virginia, rhode island, california, alex podia joins me now. good to be with us. >> thanks for having us back. >> we will be talking in a couple minutes to the vice chair of the integrity commission who signed this letter to you and all the letter states. i want to ask you. why are you refusing to provide the voter roll data that he as
chair is asking for? >> look. it's not just about the requested data, before even meeting, by the way, so we're not sure if this is chris kovac or the commission as a whole. you said it at the top, this is a follow-up to donald trump's baseless allegations of massive voter fraud across the country without a shred of evidence to support his claims. there is evidence to the contrary. numerous studies, numerous investigations that show that this voter fraud exists. yes, it's extremely rare. uless very isolated. but he can't accept that answer, so there is now a commission. he puts in charge secretary kovac and others with long documented histories of discriminatory policy, voter suppression policies, anti-immigrant policies, it's a commission who has reached their outcome and conclusions before the process has even begun. >> so i will ask you this. i got the beth lett got the let.
it says what changes, if any, would you recommend to enhance the integrity. how could you support state and local elections? what other issues do you believe the commission can consider? it seems he's asking for a lot of information to help improve the way you conduct votes. >> it's only if it was actually genuine and sincere. you continue ignore that data request t. data that's unprecedented. they're not just asking for the names of the voters in your particular state. you said off the top, names, dates of birth, social security, history, party rblgsstratiegist. states have limitations who has access to that data for the person of protecting personal information for voters. so there is no precedent for the f feds to collect this number one. number two, they are concerned who will have access, for what
purpose? where they will store it and protect it? if you want to do vladimir putin a favor, put all of this information, personal information, for every voter in america is one place online, why not go ahead and make it easy for them to compromise next year's elections? and if they're genuine about the first series of questions how to improve things, go back to the 2014, the last presidential commission on the administration bipartisan recommendations on how to strengthen the integrity of our elections, starting with investing in new technology and voting systems. between that and acknowledging russian interventions, that commission ought to start. >> alex, thank you for joining us. i will continue in a moment. alex podilla is the secretary of state. joining me now the man who sent the letter, he is the vice chair of the presidential advisory commission on election
integrity. he is also kansas's secretary of state. i suppose kansas will hand over the information. he passed the secure and fair elections act in 2011 where you must show documentary proof of citizenship when applying the vote the american civil liberties union file several suits because of the law. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having many esmr chris, have you said, i was talking about the tweet by president trump who said that he won the popular vote, which he didn't, when you take into account all the illegal fraudulent votes. you seem to support that view. on what everyday? >> well the president's statements in january and february, the commission isn't put in place to prove or displace that. we may never know if that's true or not t. point is to present it to the public. i want to respond to something secretary podilla said.
this is publicly available information. the commission is asking what any person on the street in california can walk into a county election office and get f. social security number is publicly available. it is not publicly available. we aren't requesting it. >> why did you ask for it? >> if it is publicly available. then the commission would look it, too. in most states it's not. >> you want to avoid falls positives. >> i hear you, what are you trying to get at? asking for people's names, initials, date of birth. >> and the political party. you want voter history and information regarding felony convictions and information regarding voter registration, information involving military status and overseas citizen information. what will you do with all that information? >> okay. let me give you an example t. pugh charitable foundation one of their trusts estimates 1.8
million deceased individuals are on the voter rom in the understand country. they think that's low. we can find out the number if we match them against the social security administrations deaths, let's find out the real number. if have you the voter history, how many of these names appear to have voted after the date of death. >> right. >> so it's a matter of actual numbers. >> except. >> it's interesting, why not find out? >> because you got this wrong. you actually went after a particular voter who you said was dead and voted in an election, it turned out the guy was very much alive a. newspaper found him as well. >> now that case actually proved back in six or seven year ago when i was running for the election. there is a guy's name in the kansas voter rolls, they had a mistake listing his date of birth at 1901, he was still voting in 2006 t. prop was in the voter rolls. so there are lots of errors in every state's voter rolls, let's
find out how significant they r. let's find out how many deceased people are on the rolls, how many cases where a deceased individual is voting and let's find out how many aliens are on the voter rolls. california has been accused by many people in the countries of being very lax in allowing non-citizens to register. we can find out. maybe it will turn out there are very few. maybe it will turn out there is atial large number. my reasoning is what is secretary podilla afraid of? show the american public how significant the issue is. it's just fact finding he seems to be afraid of. >> i have so much to discuss with you. i prepared this well. are you a good debater and a smart guy. we have breaking news about a shooting at a hospital. i have to ask you to end this conversation, i would like to invite you back to continue the conversation. i do need to take you back to bronx south lebanon hospital. police are saying at least one person has been shot t. mayor's office has been briefed on the shooting. nypd is on the scene.
they are asking people to avoid the area of 1650 grand concourse and we have, there's a lot more information coming out of here. we are working very hard to confirm it. the police department the fire department is on the scene because there have been reports, which you cannot see in this shot of flames coming from different floors at the hospital. there are reports tom winter from nbc news is saying that police officials have told nbc news a gunman in the bronx has a rifle possibly an ar-15 type rifle. there is a lock downat the hospital. the shooting is apparently, we're trying to get detail on this, the shooting apparently took place on the 8th floor. there are reports according to wnbc somebody on wnbc that three people may have been shot. the shooter may have been wearing a lab coat a. doctor-style lab coat and there
are also reports of a fire on the 16th floor of the hospital. this is a lot of desperate information. it's hard to make sense of. we don't have a shot that can show us smoke coming from the building. as is typical of breaking news, this kind of thing, these initial reports could be entirely incorrect. all we know now is that officials are saying one person has been shot at bronx lebanon hospital. it's a not for profit hospital in the bronx. it's a major medical center. i've got bill bratton on the phone. he was the commissioner of the new york city police department twice from 2014 to 2016, prior to that 1994 to 1996. we are getting now reports from there is a fire on the 8th floor and smoke on the 16ing floor. bill bratton is on the phone with us. commissioner, you have been hearing the information i've got. i don't know if you have more information, what comes to mind when you hear this? >> okay. i understand everything that you
are getting and i'm giving you is preliminary. there is a little change in terms of this is a multi-story hospital. one of the larger ones in the bronx. so those fire locations, you are correct, that they are reported fires in the building on different floors, smoke possibly from fires on all floors. at this time there are multiple casualties. the number is not specific two or three, but there's a belief that some additional floors that they have not had access to may have additional. the individual involved black male believed to be a former employee. they have identified him. he is believed to be with an ar-15 type of weapon you so often see in these types of situations. the nypd is probably one of the best prepared departments in america to deal with an active
shooter type of six such as this particularly in a large complex. there is belief he is still in the building t. department is, in fact, trying to secure certain areas in that building if, in fact, he is still roaming around in the building. pediatric wards, et cetera, as you'd appreciate. there is none in the building to evacuate a. lot of the patients and active hospital. so they're attempting with the very large resources that the nypd can put into this. also, over the last several years, we were preparing for just this type of incident, whether terrorist inspired, not believed to be terrorist inspired at this time. this would appear preliminarily to be a former employee distressed in a hospital jacket similar to what you would see a doctor wearing who is familiar with the hospital, which makes the situation more problematic as far as trying to fer et him out. the issue for the police now is the idea of trying to find him.
secure patients, evacuate those who they can. but also the department over the last several years has trained with the fire department for what we would call a hot fire situation is up as this, where they would have specialized personnel who have been trained to go in with the police into an active shooter situation to deal with a fire. and so in terms of that preparation, new york has led the way over the last several years. traditionally, just about every police car in new york city now in these types of events has been getting equipped with ballistic helmets, ballistic vests for all police officers, so as they respond to an active shooter situation first officers have the ability to immediately move in. the city also had two very large reasons teams equipped with the heavy vests, assault weapons,
strategic response group which is there. and then the superbly trained emergency service unit which is the most specialized. so at the moment unknown number of casualties, active shooter believed to be still in the hospital. very familiar with the hospital. geography, the fire department will be coordinateing with the police to get if and start dealing with those fires, evacuation where it can occur and securing of various portions of the hospital by police personnel to deal with the shooter if he seeks to move throughout the hospital. >> let me ask you something, we've we heard reports of an ar-15 type gun being used. given what you know about new york, is it typical, likely or difficult for a new yorker to have an ar-15 rifle? >> new york has some of the best gun control laws in america. those are mitigated
unfortunately by the lax laws in america for the purchase of firearms t. so-called iron pipeline coming up from the united states t. use of an ar-15 type rifle is very rare in new york city. we do not have the problem over the years of other cities, atlanta, los angeles, where i formally work have had with these assault type weapons. it is very unusual to have one used in new york city but because of the likelihood or plausiblity particularly in a terrorist event, there is not a believe this is a terrorist-related event. this is preliminary, that the training of the department over the last several years something i was very specifically involved in as a commissioner has been to equip every police car, every office in new york with tactical gear that can deal with active shooters, no matter what weapon they deal with and to quickly parcel, i think the goal is within seven minutes of an incident to get a number of officers who are armed,
themselves, with assault-style weapons into a location. so i think you will see a lot of what the response is today to that incident. we'll be reflective of the training and the commitment to resourcing its officers the cross training with the new york city fire department to deal with a fire in a so-called hot zone. all of that will be playing out over the next minutes and moments as they attempt to locate and disable the shooter. >> i will ask you one question about these fires we are hearing about possibly on the 8th floor and on the 16th floor, there seems to be smoke being seen from there. can the fire department go into a hospital to try to fire if the hospital has not been secured? >> that's correct. there has been training conducted over the last several years. i observed one that we did about six months before i left as commissionner 2016, where the idea is that that had been a
limitation in the past about the idea of a fire, but it has been a cross training created so that members of the fire department would be equipped and would be able to go into a circumstance. each circumstance is different, however the idea that we're certainly from a police standpoint concerned naturally not only with the lives of officers, but the protection of the lives of firefighters, and both entities, fire fighter and police, a first priority for them is certainly the public in trying to safe guard them. so in terms of specifically what's going on up there at this moment, i think you will also find the nypd and fire department incidentally coordinated and will be getting information out to you as soon as possible as to what they're up to. but there is as you might see on the video that you possibly are showing, there will be a huge police presence up there.
>> we are showing an aerial shot at the moment where we are not seeing smoke coming out of the windows. we have an aerial shot. we got gurneys going into the hospital. this is on grand concourse. we are now seeing gurneys going in or assembling outside the hospital. there is movement in and out of the hospital. but that shot we were looking at, it's going to pull out now the helicopter, you will see the number of police vehicles that are out and then you got firefighters. >> that grouping that you just saw there, those are firefighters assembled outside the building. we don't know how many have gone into the building, but there look to be bypy immediate last 30 or 40 standing right there, ready to go in and there are police cars as far as the eye can see. people that live in new york, commissioner, are used to the last few years seeing those groupings of police cars assembling at a tern e certain
location is that what happened in a case like this? >> exactly. one of the changes we began to make in 2014 is the isis initiative ban to to take hold and the potential of the so-called lone wolf active shooter situation becoming much more likely. the department for a period of time would bring in a car from each precinct if the city each day into manhattan. the officers are armed with traditional 9 pilly meter bodies and bulletproof vests they wear. over the last several years, we have invested tens of millions of dollars to equip over 600 officers in there critical response command with the long guns, tactical weaponry and ballistic helmets and the approximately 560 officers in the critical response command, which is a terrorist group. so the department now has in addition to its 600 emergency service unit close to about 12
to 1,400 additional officers all equipped, capable of being equipped with long guns, ballistic vest itself, et cetera, almost 2,000 personnel not all on personnel not all on duty at one time. but willing to bet there are several hundred of them up at that scene and they have all the appropriate equipment. >> commissioner, stand by for one second because you're talking about this training. i have lester holt, "nbc nightly news" anchor with us. he is in los angeles, but lester, you have participated in the active training shooter that the commissioner is talking about. >> yeah, ali, in fact, with the exact same unit. the critical response command along with the -- i think it's ssg they have. these are units equipped with long guns and heavy armor and they train for this. we were at an office building in brooklyn just a couple of days ago as they went through the active shooter drill including where they had to go room to room into rooms where there might have been people and quickly establish who the target
is. they did it on several levels. they did it on the patrol level, meaning that if it was simply a sector car or a patrol car that showed up and two officers got out, they are trained to stop the killing. that is the main mission of any of these units, it's to stop the killing. even if there are victims there. their main objective is to get to the shooters. so we went through them -- with them as they went through various scenarios from two officers, four officer, an entire squad of this critical response command group going in and taking the initiative against the shooter. they're trained to move very, very quickly. methodically though. and certainly, you know, they learn things about you know potential cross fire situation. potential devices that may be in the room. but this -- what we're seeing here in realtime mirrors very much what we have been looking at for a story we have been working on about what the commissioner was talking about this robust nypd apparatus now
to deal with the kinds of terror threats we have been seeing around the world. some of the low tech attacks. the same units you often see them now outside popular tourist attractions in new york city. we see them outside on rockefeller plaza in times square, empire state building. this is what they're trained to do and you're seeing them in action here. >> lester, one of the reasons to do this over and over again and one of the reasons that new yorkers get used to seeing some of it is to create a muscle memory so that when it happens, there's a calmness around it, not a franticness, not a panic. as you look at the pictures live coming in from the bronx, from the grand concourse, where bronx-lebanon is located you see the firefighters there and the police over to the side. there is a stillness about it. even though this is an active shooter situation and we do not have confirmation that the shooter has been subdued. so that -- is that part of the training? >> it is. and one of the bits of training -- this is something i learned first hand covering the bataclan theater attack in
paris, i interviewed the swat commander who took out the final two attackers, they had people asking for help and they as the officers are trained, you have to ignore that. you have to get to the shooter and stop the killing. that's something that's counter -- you know, counter to the person's instinct. but that's the kind of thing they're trained for. we don't have any indication that's been the case here. but they have to -- you know, eliminate the person doing the shooting before they can do anything else. >> all right. lester, thanks very much. it's beneficial you have been able to give us a sense of perspective as to what we're seeing. it doesn't look very active but there's an active situation under way at one of the major hospitals. certainly the major hospital for that area of the south bronx and the bronx-lebanon hospital. let me bring you up to speed. we know that the fdny is on scene. we know that at least one person has been shot. there are unconfirmed reports of
others being shot. a man with a rifle resembling an ar-15 although that's what a lot of people think a rifle of that sort looks like. we don't have confirmation about that. commissioner bill bratton, former commissioner of nypd, saying that's not a typical type of weapon that's used in new york city because it's hard to get. very hard to get. i want to get on the phone -- on the phone with me is darren porcher. a retired lieutenant who knows the area well. darren, bronx-lebanon is a big deal hospital. it's a not for profit, but it's a full service hospital with an emergency unit. >> ali, that's correct. bronx-lebanon is a trauma center. so they do have the ability to facilitate any casualties in that area. now, what's happening right now is the police -- they're setting up what we refer to as an inner and an outer perimeter. the outer perimeter of course is
just restricting vehicular traffic into the hospital. the inner perimeter is where you see the officers with the heavy weapons. that's a combination of officers from the srg unit they're in possession of the heavy weapons. and as well as the emergency service unit. they're going to be conducting a grid pattern search. they'll start from the bottom floors and they're going to move up. now bear in mind, this is someone that does -- that's in possession of long gun. those long guns we think about the ammunition that comes from one of those long guns. it has the propensity to penetrate an officer's bullet resistant vest so you'll see a lot of bullet resistant shields that are brought in to the scene of this. you will see a lot of resources that are going to be deployed. in addition to that we have somewhat of a unique situation whereas we have a -- we have patients, we have hospital staff, et cetera. so a lot of what the police department is going to focus on
as i heard the first individual mention is they want to get to the shooter as quick as possible. it's not to assess the casualties, but get to the shooter and take them out to prevent further casualties moving forward. >> a little complicated. some of the reporting we have got is that the shooter may have been a former employee and may be wearing a doctor's lab coat. identifying a shooter in that kind of an environment other than the fact that he has a long gun is going to prove challenging for the police. >> that is true, ali. what happens a lot of times when we look at kidnapping and hostage investigations, oftentimes you will have a hostage taker that -- in a bank for example. the police are unable to assess who's who because oftentimes the hostage takers will take the uniforms of the bank guards and things to that effect. one of the things that the police coming -- the entry team that comes into this facility is going to do, they're going to
focus on bringing -- neutralizing -- >> darren, on that point, i'm going to interrupt you. the shooter has been neutralized. two sources are saying that the suspect is down inside the bronx-lebanon hospital. the shooter has been neutralized. we do not know exactly what that means. but they have now neutralized at least that one threat they believe it's a single person with an ar-15 or a long gun. something that is not typical in new york. we only have confirmed news of one person shot at the hospital. there are a lot of news reports around that more than one may have been shot. we don't have that confirmed, but now we're looking at it right now, but what should be
happening now, darren, is if they have neutralized that shooter you will see the necessary resources going into that hospital to make sure the injured are taken care of. >> yes. what you -- what you will see, we're not going to see it on television, but it will happen with the police department. they're now going to connect with the live feed of the hospital security. they want to see how this individual entered this facility to ensure there is only one shooter. one great dynamic we have with a facility such as a hospital there are multiple cameras all over. so more than likely someone from the police department is going to sit down with the head of security in that hospital to check -- to ensure that this was the only shooter that was present. this can take some time because it can be a tedious process. >> we are confirming now from the new york police department that the shooter is dead. new york police department saying the shooter at bronx-lebanon is dead. and they are now moving in to
neutralize the situation in terms of fires. there was a reported fire on the eighth floor of the hospital. smoke being seen from the 16th floor. darren, commissioner bratton was discussing something interesting and that is that the fire department in new york has been trained to be able to insert themselves into an active situation. to be able to do this. this is a video by the way from a few moments ago where you're seeing police heavily armed as darren porcher said. not just with guns but with extra armor. and long guns. now going over a barrier in t the -- on the grand concourse in the bronx and making their way inside the hospital. you see those gurneys standing by. this is a few moments ago so you've got the firefighters on the left, but if there is still any active fire or smoke in the hospital those firefighters would have made their way in. but darren, it sounds to me like the firefighters were already able to get into the building following that grid pattern that
the police were executing? >> well, you have to take into consideration, here in new york city, a city like new york city, the fire department is -- and i want to say -- i use the term paramedics because that's very loose -- that's the ems workers. they are one and the same. it's the same agency. therefore, it's common place for fdny or i want to say fire department members to enter and exit that hospital. like i said earlier this is a level one trauma center. what the fire department members they would be on site to provide that medical aid, but you will never see members of the fire department in the direct line of fire. so they have to maintain -- i refer to the inner and the outer perimeter. you will have an inner and an outer perimeter