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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  July 4, 2017 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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that could travel some 4,000 miles and put alaska into range. what they don't know about it yet is they're aware the claims they tested an intercontinental missile. the spon calling this an intermediate range missile. the initial reports, this was something similar to what they launched back may 149, remember that one also went quite high. and the pentagon also doesn't know what shape the missile was in, any potential warhead would have been when it reentered the atmosphere. they fired it so far up into the sky, into the atmosphere, they have to have reentry challenges. for a long time, reentry was the big hurdle, one of the hurdles, the other is marrying a nuclear tip warhead, miniaturizing and putting it on the miss. sop it appears they got it higher than last time. flew longer than last time, but we don't know yet what shape it was in when it reentered. >> and of course, they are still assessing whether or not they have the capability, north korea, that is to reach the
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lower 49 and how close they are to that. give us sort of an assessment, does the pentagon have a timetable as to when north korea could reach that viability? that it could have a long range missal to reach the lower 49. >> they don't have anything firm. . by the time that north korea has the ability to hit the lower 48 or the lower 49 because there are some areas where hawaii would be in range. by the time they do that, it's too late. so when they think of intercepting this program, they think about it before they get to the icbm range. now when they tested that antimissile system last month or even in may out at the air force base, that they said thought they bought them a little more time in 2020 is what we're hearing about, but the technology on that, even though they did have a successful intercept last time, it's still complicated technology, and it's really only designrded for one or two missiles heading towards
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the state. not a full barrage when you don't have any antimissile defenses capable for that at present time. >> all right, hans nichols for us, thank you, hans. i want to bring in msnbc jack jacobs, a medal of honor recipient. i want to start with you, what's your assessment of this test so far, give me on a scale of one to ten here, how serious is this and how concerned should americans be? >> well, we ought to be terribly concerned because every task range north korea closer and closer to being able to threaten the united states directly. and it's designed to do exactly that. you could say it's ten every time. we ignored their development now for decades. china's done the same, ignored the development for decades and as a result we find ourselves in this position. we have to look at north korea as a continuing criminal
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enterprise. if north korea were subject to rico, we'd be able to confiscate all of their stuff, they do not want a loss of control. that's the only reason that they're continuing down this path, the closer they get to being able to threaten the united states directly with nuclear weapons, the less capable we are or anybody else is going to be to stop them for threatening us. so yeah, it's at every time they test, it's a ten. >> you know, last week we heard nsa advisor h.r. mcmagser say that north korea is our number one concern. what military options do you see are on the table for the u.s.? >> well, we have very few, don't forget that we've got about 30,000 or so american troops in south korea, just over the demilitarized zone, so they're at risk for anything that the north koreans want to do, any, any course of action we take that threatens the north koreans
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directly, we can expect a counterattack into south korea. we should also not forget that the president, the current president of south korea, president moon was elected more or less on a platform of conciliation. to enter into negotiations with the north korea yans, but we know from 70 years of experience that's going to produce absolutely nothing. >> steve, you know we got word a couple hours ago that russia and china are proposing north korea prepare a moratorium on nuclear and missile tests while the u.s. and south korea refrain from exercises as they've been par taking in, what do you make of this proposal? could it actually work? could it move the needle? >> no, i don't think it could work at all because it would mean the united states would essentially be sliding back from a strategic posture of training, equipping, doing joint military exercises, not only with south korea, but with japan. and that forward presence has been part of a key to stability.
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these kinds of efforts have been floated in the past and they've never gone anywhere. it would be a real drawback, a strategic contraction for the united states if they were to agree to that. and it would be per received by i think everyone in the neighborhood as conceding to north korea's behavior. i agree with everything jack jacob just said. north korea sort of exists by through extortion by trying to get the world to pay it off, to get it to behave responsibly. and we're just getting to the point where the danger of that behavior has reached a level that's more unacceptable. so, i see us very much on a train, you know, course train wreck right now and it's very hard to see how we don't collide with each other. >> well steve, let's talk more about that. using the word extortion, the ways in which north korea actually exist and protects itself. is there any use to even talking about having diplomatic options here, considering the country that north korea is, and it's leadership.
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>> when he worked for the obama administration and says she sees us getting to the brink of war before north korea's behavior will change. it's course will change, and she says that wouldn't matter whether it's under the trump administration or some other administration. i think that's very, very important, very scary thought for a moment. we thought we were disrupting north korea's direction for a while when we had the 100 senators receive the secret briefing from the white house a while back. they were told in a top secret situation that we were disrupting the cyber networks that were controlling these missiles and you may recall, we had a lot of failed missile tests in north korea. they seemed to have str shh rugged that off. snrk on a course where we don't have any good options, the one option we had was to create something like the iran nuclear deal type of framework where you had russia, china, japan, the united states, and others forcefully coercively pushing
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north korea into that framework. president trump has been kicking the heck out of the iran deal. that's not a good model to back into. right now it's on a conflict course. >> looking ahead, we have the g20 summit just a couple days away. north korea top of mind, top of conversation for many countries attending there, what's going to be said between the u.s. and china in question. what do you think can be done? >> i think right now, i mean, we don't have -- we're all discussing china, but look, we withdrew from the kinds of things that would create a sense of pressure on china. the transpacific partnership was really a strategic relationship with countries in the region. we walked away from that and gave china those relationships and this territory. so this notion that we're going to all the sudden have -- we walked out of the climate change deal and we made china look big and great. so, yeah, we're going -- north korea will be top of mind for a lot of the conversations, but we need to be aware that the united
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states walked out of the machinery that would have given it more leverage over china than it has today. >> i want to bring back kristen welker who's standing outside the white house. nbc confirming this morning that president trump will sit down with vladimir putin on friday. what are the expectations there for this conversation and what are you hearing? >> reporter: here's one of the key headlines that we have, as it relates to that meeting. it's going to be a fill bilateral meeting. why does that matter? because it means that you are effectively going to see the two leaders shake hands, they may even give some remarks after they meet. and this signals that the trump administration is trying to move forward warmer relations with russia. remember when former president obama met with president putin at the last g20 summit. it was informal, effectively saying that russia has to do more before the president of the united states will grant a full meeting with the leader of russia. so a very different tone at the
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outset. what is going to be critical yasmin is what will the topics of discussion be? president trump getting a lot of pressure from lawmakers, both democrats and republicans to press president putin on meddling in the united states u.s. election. there's no indication he's going to do that. we expect he's going raise issues like syria and ukraine, but as you know, this president has been reluctant to accept what the intelligence community has confirmed which is that russia did in fact meddle in the u.s. election. so there's a lot of pressure on himle to raise that, not clear he's going to do it. white house officials say the there is no agenda for this meeting. the president will set the tone when he begins to have the discussions. >> steve, what are you expecting in this conversation here? are you expecting a conversation that's going to talk and confront about the russian meddling and the u.s. election and quite frankly med national league elections around the world? france in particular or are we expecting a conversation more about syria and investigation
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and the conversations in which putin wants to cover? >> i think we're going to have a conversation that's going to be on the ladder, more on syria and whether or not the united states and russia have a pathway forward where they can come to a new social contract and begin dealing with what's been disconcerting, spiraling of negative behavior by russia largely. and the question is what will russia want from the united states? what will donald trump put on the table whether it's the return of these two diplomatic compounds, whether it's a promise to work to ease sanctions for annexing crimea. i think most people regrettably don't see donald trump putting forward the commentary about hacking in the u.s. elections and making russians pay a price for that. i think -- i think, you know, at end of the day, vladimir putin's big objective is try to continue to create tension and a gap in the western alliance in the transatlantic relationship. jerusalem sidney hosting this, and i think germany is freaking out a bit that this is going to go on their.
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and their big goal is to keep united states committed to nato, and committed to the big transnational projects that the g20 countries have been working on, like climate change. donald trump has not been willing to play ball on that front and that has been helping putin. so this is -- you know, i think it's going to be complicated to have this meeting there, and we don't know what the agenda is. to a certain degree, donald trump is winging it, and it's not clear he's had the meetings and preparation from his team that we're going in with a clear set of objectives for the united states. >> the big question there is winging it really the best strategy for the -- >> it's not a good strategy. it's not a good tragedy. >> and looking ahead to the g20 as well, you know, you wonder, this is really the first time in a long time you feel like the u.s. is the odd man out here in this meeting. steve clemons, everyone, thank you all for joining me. trip to the beach, anything but relaxing for governor chris christie. what he's now saying about why he thought it was okay to take
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his family to a public beach during a government shutdown. that, everybody, is next. keep it here, you're watching msnbc. you are you? be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before starting stelara® tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. always tell your doctor if you have any signs of infection, have had cancer, if you develop any new skin growths or if anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin
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welcome back. today state beaches and parks in new jersey are back open for the fourth of july. the state legislature and governor christie reaching a deal ending their state's government shutdown, but christie is facing criticism after his family was pictured on a beach as you see right here near one of the state-owned homes. at the time it was closed to the public. joining me now, adam reese and thank you both for joining me on this holiday. adam, i'm going to start with you. christie fired back late last night, what's he saying? >> that's right, he's remaining defiant, unapologetic, unrepentant, he doesn't care about the optics of all of this. he's going to do what he thinks is right for the state.
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if it's a choice between politics or family, he's going to choose family every time. >> i don't apologize for it. i don't back away from it. and i think my poll numbers show that i don't care about political optics. shame on those people who wanted to make this as if we were taking advantage of something. now if they had flown that plane over that beach and i was sitting next to a 25-year-old blond in that beach chair next to me, that's a story. i wasn't sitting next to a 25-year-old blond. i was sitting next to my wife of 31 years, surrounded by my children and their best friends. if that's a scandal, that's a scandal i'm guilty of every day of my life. >> now as you know, the reaction to those photos was swift and angry. many people saying he's just being selfish, he doesn't care about the people of this state or his constituents, he's really thumbing his nose, but that all came to an end, they came to an agreement last night.
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the beaches and parks will be open and i can tell you the governor is headed to the beach. >> well, adam, christie certainly knows how to spin it after hearing his reaction yesterday after reaching that budget there. i want to bring you in, you hear christie saying he doesn't care about political optics. his approval rating is at 15%. interestingly, former rnc michael steele said i know people want to write this politically, people want him to go away, but this is someone who does not go away. he also went on to say that christie was trump before trump. i thought it was interesting in reading. >> i don't care what the media and some of the my critics are saying? i don't know about him being
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trump before trump, trump has been trump for so long. even though he wasn't in the political eye and the nation wasn't thinking of him as a political figure. trump has always been a wild card. so, chris christie was someone as someone thabd make deals and govern, but this incident shows that chris christie has a lot to come back from. he in some ways feels as though he can do what he wants to do and his critics will say what they want. in reality, have a future in the republican party, he's going to have to convince people and if he wants to be a national figure.
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>> means what he says. and he's doing it here as well. i'm not necessarily surprised by this. you've been covering new jersey for quite some time, talk to me about that. >> right. and that's a lot of what many new jerseyians like about him. that was part of what brought his popularity about, then bridge gate, fail the run for the presidency and now this one commentator said these pictures were like nails in his coffin. >> talking about christie's future here, his funds for opioid addiction therapy, they triggered a shutdown. he gave in to strike a budget deal. now everything opening back up they've seen adds. aside from that beach photo that we've been talking about, is
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that really where he's staking his political future. >> rewarded in the ways that others have been rewarded and hasn't gotten an office in the white house. i think chris christie has his eyes on being a national figure in the republican party. and remember, there was that press conference where chris christie was famously standing behind the president and people were kind of accusing him of being a prop. chris christie bore that criticism, chris christie didn't back away from trump at some of the worst or hardest times that trump has faced. he's been an arden supporter of the president, as a result, he sees his future in the white house. he sees himself as someone who can ride the coat tails of the president and they are in some ways similar people, in that he is frank, he is blunt, however, i he think the fact that chris christie was seen as someone who could leave the country and who wasn't as much as a wild card as donald trump was. >> nbc's adam reese, thank you
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for joining me. appreciate it. new details on the struggle to get a health care bill who wavering republicans. what kind of bill the cbo is now looking at. that's coming up next. i work overtime when i can get it. i need my blood sugar to stay in control. so i asked about tresiba®. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® is a once-daily, long-acting insulin that lasts even longer than 24 hours. i need to cut my a1c. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® works like my body's insulin. releases slow and steady.
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welcome back, everybody, you're watching msnbc with a look at the morning's headlines. north korean state tv claimed the country successfully launched an intercontinental ballistic missile. they're investigating that
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claim, but early analysis indicates it was an intermediate range missile. russia and china are proposing a halt if large skill tests are done. ten people to the hospital, investigators are looking into the cause of monday's crash. right now, they do not believe it was deliberate. the driver remained at the scene telling police there was a mechanical problem with his car. none of the injuries are believed to be life threatening. and federal appeal's court is forcing the environmental administration to enforce an obama-era required meth yan regulations on the drilling industry. scott pruitt previously said he would delay the regulation by two years to reconsider the measure and epa spokeswoman said that agency is now reviewing the opinion and examining it's options. all right. turning now to the big story, new details on the senate scram to believe repeal and replace obamacare. turns out the cbo is looking at
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several versions of the bill over this fourth of july break. yes, they are working, for more, bring in garrett at the white house. garrett, i want to start with you. what can you tell us about these two bills and whether the white house is actually supporting both of them or either of them. >> reporter: well the main difference is this one amendment, this is the consumer freedom act. this was a proposal by senators ted cruz and mike lee, two of the more conservative members of the republican caucus. the cbo looking with it and without it trying to figure the changes it would make to coverage and cost. the heart of the amendment is this, if it's state sells a plan in a place like jackson county, missouri, under obamacare it had to have a certain number of essential benefits. they have so sell at least one plan that has the benefits.
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it gets -- in nearly, it would get more people covered. and potentially maybe bring premiums down for everybody else. that's why conservatives like it, so far the white house signalled this is something they're interested in seeing in this bill. >> well, let's talk more about this amendment here. i know this is one of the first to report about this amendment. outpatient care, rehabilitation, laboratory and diagnostic tests and pediatric care. i'm out of breath because there are so many many services
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involved there. how is the cbo going to score that and take that into can the? >> you're completely right. i think we'll remember last december, the cbo said it might not consider certain health care plans as insurance if they don't offer enough financial services and if they don't cover these, you know, enough essential health benefits. and so, i'm fully anticipating the cbo will return with a score that is not favorable to the conservative's plan and amendment.
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>> cuts to planned parenthood in the senate bill. those are the issues they care more about, but part of the problem here is this sort of sliding scale, you do things to make the conservatives happy, you upset the moderates. if for example the new version of the senate bill got rid of those planned parenthood cuts to appease those moderates, you might see the same conservatives like ted cruz and mike lee despite the inclusion of their amendment in this bill being pushed back off the other direction because they want to see those planned parenthood cuts included. >> we've been talking about the score for quite some time. 23 million people losing coverage at one point under the house bill, 22 million people as you can see there under the senate bill losing coverage. i mean, i could go on here, how much do you think the cbo scoring really matters for those -- both voting on the bill and the american public. who does it matter to more?
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>> so, it's important to remember that 17% of americans disapprove -- >> approve of the senate health bill as it currently is according to a poll from last week. the ones vocal opponents of the bill are considering that their constituents are not happy with this. and it's clear that republicans care about the cbo score to the extent they sent two versions of the bill to the cbo to score. but clearly conservatives care a little bit less than the moderates do as their proposal, one might not meet the reconciliation bill, and two, would likely return with a worse score than the original one. >> garrett, i want to get your final take on this. we've been talking about the new proposal just to repeal and not necessarily to replace, which means there'd be a major gap in coverage and how long would it actually take to replace. what's the viability? what's the likelihood that could happen? a lot of people up in arms over this. >> there are some real practical just sort of basic political
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logistical problems. might sound good on paper. the main problems are this congress has a packed legislative agenda for the rest of the year. they need to get through tax reform, they need to lift the debt ceiling, deal with a budget, there's a lot of things on their plate already and having to pass two controversial bills instead of just one is more difficult. the house has passed a combined repeal and replace. the speaker doesn't want to necessarily put his people through another set of difficult votes if he doesn't have to. so just sort of some practical calendar considerations here. even beyond the politically -- the political challenge of getting things for both bills. >> i love that, and oh by the way, garrett electing the candidate, thank you both for joining me. the white house confirming the president will meet with vladimir putin this friday. will president trump confront putin about the russia's 2016
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election interference and what happens if he does not? that's coming up next. oh, the pictures from this meeting. i can't wait. ♪ [vo] progress is seizing the moment. your summer moment awaits you now that the summer of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the summer of audi sales event.
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fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. president trump getting ready to have his first face to face meeting with russian president sclooun. the white house now calling it a quote normal bilateral meeting. russian official saying the meeting is crucial, the big question is, whether the president will bring up russian interference in the u.s. elections. so let's get into this. joining me now is matt, republican strategist, he's a president of the strategy group and a democratic strategist and the former chief of staff for senator joe manchin. matt, i'm going to start with you. the trump/putin meeting, what are the odds he brings up russia's interference in the u.s. election? the and the critics want him to send a message. do you think he's going to?
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>> yeah, it's a gad question, it'll be one the media is focussed on. i would like to see him bring it up, you have congress taking steps to pass sanctions against russia. new sanctions against russia for their interference in our election, but i would also say it's a full agenda. obviously a political settlement or solution in syria would be on the table. i would hope the president will bring up our commitment to nato. so there's a lot to talk about, certainly russia's interference into our election is something i hope president trump does bring up, and that'll be something the media will focus on to a great extent. >> h.r. mcmaster said there's no specific agenda for this trump/putin meeting. you heard steve clemons earlier in the show saying he thinks it's a bad idea for president trump to wing this meeting. you think about putin's background, former kgb here. you know how calculated he really is, do you think it's a good idea to bring it to have no specific agenda? and by the way, do you even buy
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it? do you buy there's no specific agenda with this meeting and how it's going to go down? sometimes it's hard to believe believe what is reality and what is not. in terms of no agenda, that is -- you know, that's kind of stunning if you think about it, there's at least to the a set group of topics that they want to address in the first bilateral meeting between a u.s. president and the russia president. i think in about two years. so, that i think is a, you know, should raise red flags. i don't believe he's going to do it. it would be literally the thick that everyone will talk about if they don't address it. and i think this again speaks to more of the optics of this president. i think he loves the idea of basically standing next to putin
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and poking the finger in the eye of his critics. it is basically the moe distance op ran die. i don't see how it's going to change. >> if i was advising a president, hey, you're going to to want bring that up. . do you think that's even a thought there or am i kind of, you know, coming from left field with that? >> oh, if you're thinking strategically, yes, if you're thinking in terms of tweets, no. and again, i think this is the dilemma that president trump's administration find themselves in. i have to doubt that some of his advisors will be saying we have to bring it up, got to bring it up. then he'll be sitting there in that moment and he will not bring it up. >> not only would i want to bring it up, i would make sure someone is typing it down. matt, president trump coming to the g20 summit, kind of as the odd man out, especially the paris climate accord, i want to
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remind everybody president trump's announcement in the rose garden, then we'll talk. >> the united states will withdraw from the paris climate accord, but begin negotiations to reenter either the paris accord or in really entirely new transaction on terms that are fair to the united states, it's businesses, it's workers, it's people, it's tax payers so we're getting out. >> so this announcement obviously coming off the g20 summit when we saw president trump meeting with all of those other world leaders. now we have german chancellor angela merkel promising the combat climate that i think as we have seen and said that these will not be easy talks, referring to the talks with the
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president of the united states. they are obvious and it would be wrong to pretend they are not there. so how do you think, chris, that -- excuse me, matt, how do you think that president trump is going to handle his differences with chancellor merkel? excuse me. germany has national elections and merkel is in danger, standing up to trump will be good for her home country. there's a strong disagreement between president trump's agreement to pull out and the views of many european allies. the president did say that he would be willing to renegotiate paris. >> not to cut in here, matt, but he said they would renegotiate, we heard hours later saying that there's no negotiation. it is what it is. >> sure, and this took several years for the obama
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administration to negotiate. any time you have an agreement that has that many parties, you cannot probably renegotiate it because everyone has something they don't like. >> which one? we'll talk about the most controversy sweet from over the weekend when you saw president trump in his -- from his body slamming basically with the cnn logo on the face of someone from his wrestling days. shall we say. so this is is a u.s. president,
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sitting u.s. president, going to the g20 summit with so much controversy swirling about his tweets. something that we have never seen before, how do you think that's going to affect the conversations with these world leaders? and this is not something new. he's already gone to these places and already had some of these conversations with these controversies behind him. >> he loves to distract everyone from the litany of failures and lack of accomplishments that the american people should be focussing on. and it's hard to distract them when you're basically suggesting violence to the media. so, i think, again, he does this when he's in a corner, he's unable to -- unwilling to address a specific issue. so i have a feeling this will not be the last tweet we will
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talk about, not even close to the last tweet we will talk about. >> yeah, i'm going to take you up on that. i think you might be right there. matt and chris, thank you both for joining me. happy fourth. speaking of fourth everybody, what is more important than celebrating our country's independence? having good weather. msnbc meteorologist bonnie snyder standing by. there's a lot of people out there waiting to grill. they're on their boats, at the beaches, they're just enjoying a beautiful day while we're here in studio talking to each other. >> we are, but we're bringing some good news to everyone because unlike fourth of julys in year's past, generally speaking, this is going to be a nice one for most of the country. there was rain earlier on that's pushed through dallas. a lot have dissipated. that is good news, we're watching out for improving conditions in the forecast. we're going to talk about that and of course if for our weather going forward, we'll be looking for those storms to push across dallas as i mentioned. temperatures will be warmer
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throughout most of the country. high temperatures across the board into the 80s and even into the 90s, and as far as travel delays, we don't have any to talk about right now. we'll be watching for that perhaps as we go through the fifth. we're going to have more on the weather coming up, yasmin. >> bonnie snyder bringing us the good news of the day, happy fourth. >> you too. venus williams getting emotional at wimbledon, but not about tennis. happened when he was asked about a deadly car crash she was involved in last month. kelly has more on this. >> reporter: venus williams scoring a first round victory at wimbledon, but the joy quickly turned to tears. the tennis great breaking down at a post match press conference after being asked about her involvement in a fatal car crash in florida last month. >> yeah, i am completely speechless, and it's just -- >> reporter: overcome with emotion and wiping away tears --
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>> i may have to go. >> yeah. >> reporter: she briefly left the room. on friday, she posted on her facebook page, i am devastated and heartbroken by this accident. my heartfelt condolences go out to the family and friends of jerome and i continue to keep them in my thoughts and prayers. in a car crash june 9th, 78-year-old jerome barson was injured and died two weeks later. williams is now being sued by barson's family. in a statement, williams' turn called the crash an unfortunate accident and said venus express's her deepest condolences to the family who lost a loved one. according to to the police report, williams was at fault for violating the right of way. she was not issued any tickets at the time, and police say there was no evidence williams was under the influence of drug and alcohol or distracted bay cell phone. williams has known tough times. her parents divorce, the murder of her half sister, and she battled an autoimmune disease
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for a decade. now, she's pulling herself together once again. >> all right, thank you to kelly for that report from london. lsht. beyond the fireworks and grilling on the fourth of july. we're going to reveal a few facts about the nation's birthday you may have never heard about. that's coming up, you don't to want miss it. (singsong) budget meeting. sweet. if you compare last quarter... it's no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with no artificial preservatives, flavours or dyes.
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as all of you are celebrating the fourth of july, fun facts for you to. today the u.s. celebrates 241 years since the signing in 1776, a date many of you know. and we're going to spend some of the day eating hot dogs and watching fireworks, how much do you know about our national anniversary? this is the author of "red white and blue letter days," happy fourth of july. >> happy fourth of july to you. >> thank you for wearing your tie. i think i should have rethought
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my outfit. we're celebrating fourth of july today. and we're used to celebrating independence day. on a different day, normally, right? it's the fourth of july today. but it used to be the second of >> well, it's -- >> am i getting that wrong? >> no, no. the continental congress. >> okay. >> declared that independence on july 2nd, 1776. but the document itself, the declaration of independence, bears the date july 4th, 1776. but the thing is, it kind of -- the difference in date doesn't matter. what we really think -- what we should think about the declaration is as a kind of larger event. it says at the very end, we do declare and publish, so publish what is key, the congress could say, you know, we're independent. but unless the american people more broadly said yes, and affirmed it, it didn't matter. so the publish meant not just put it in -- but they did that,
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across the united states, in squares, on church steps, out loud to the washington troops, and it was that act of affirmation by the american people more generally celebrating themselves into existence in a way that made it real. they had the war to finish as well, but -- >> this was an interesting thing i read about, the pennsylvania evening post, the first to print the declaration of independence, on july 6th. that's not how a lot of colonists found out about independence and you touched on that. it was in the squares, word of mouth. >> right. well, you know, the official document that we see at the national archives, beautiful parchment and calligraphy, beforehand, putting it into print was important, so broad sides, newspapers, that's the way some people found out about it, but it really meant, it is meant to be read out loud. so, you know, that's the way that people not only heard about
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it, read it, but celebrated it in public with each other, which was really a powerful political, you know, occurrence. >> let's talk about the transition of celebrations. i feel like i have this conversation about many holidays, halloween, for instance, celebrated much differently in the past -- in the past than it is today. fourth of july, again, excuse me, hot dogs, fireworks, beach time, for chris christie, when did it ramp up? when did it turn? how did they used to celebrate? >> it has been celebrated continuously since 1776. and if you look at john adams wrote about it in, you know, right at the moment, saying we should celebrate it with games and shows and bells and guns and illuminations and all that. that kind of celebration has been going on from the beginning. with changing technology, with the emergence of cheaper fireworks and things like that,
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became more and more possible for it to be celebrated in a kind of really bombastic sort of way. but the basic script has been the same from the very beginning through the 19th century, but we do it through leisure, more than public demonstrations. fireworks are something, parades are still existing in a lot of small towns across the country, they're great. but there is -- we often do it individually in our families but with other people in public. >> second and third presidents, john adams, thomas jefferson, they have a unique bond to the fourth of july. talk to me about that. >> they're very important there at the beginning, jefferson is the primary author of the declaration. and they live to see the 50th anniversary, the jubilee anniversary of the declaration and both died on the same day, july 4th, 1826. >> wow. that's incredible. >> within hours of each other in different parts of the can country. >> what is also interesting is that so many of us are
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celebrating the fourth of july and going to fireworks as we have been talking about. there are people becoming u.s. citizens today and celebrating in that way. 15,000 people to be exact today. >> wow. that's amazing. that's been going on for a long time, probably since at least the era of world war i. if fourth of july is america's birthday, it is the perfect time for the rebirth of new citizens to naturalize and so especially in the wake of -- during world war i, a time when there was a lot of nativistic, and there was this concern, george creel, the propaganda czar, he began to institute programs of naturalization and so what we see is an americanization celebration on the fourth, which was fairly inclusive, even though it could be a little bit problematic in some ways, but pretty inclusive, we see huge parades in 1918 and indianapolis
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and cleveland, where tens of thousand s of people would march through the streets as naturalized citizens, wearing native garb, sometimes carrying their native flags but also banners that said america first. >> wow. we should do that still. we should bring it back. >> yeah. >> let's start a movement. >> yeah. well, it continues. it continues. it's, i think, a long-standing value of -- in the united states that we could be hive natured americans, distinctive and ethnic while also being americans. >> give us your favorite little fast fact about the fourth of july. i know that's hard as a professor because you like to go on. my brother is a professor, so i say that in jest. >> how about louie armstrong, he claimed to have been born on july 4th, 1900. and he's, you know, as great a cultural symbol in the american 20th century as any person.
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>> he lied. >> actually august 4th, 1901. >> he was lying. what else was he lying about? let's get into that. >> give him a little wiggle room. we don't celebrate on the 2nd, we celebrate on the 4th. >> records back then were a little shaky and maybe something got lost in the fire. >> yeah. >> i don't even know what fire i'm talking about. all right. professor matthew dennis, thank you. happy fourth. >> same to you. nice talking with you. back in a moment with today's top stories. keep it here, msnbc. undred mile, you'll see what you're really made of. after five hours of spinning and one unfortunate ride on the gravitron, your grandkids spot a 6 foot banana that you need to win. in that moment, you'll be happy you partnered with a humana care manager and got your health back on track. because that banana isn't coming home with you until that bell sings. great things are ahead of you when your health is ready for them. at humana, we can help you with a personalized plan for your health for years to come.
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nickels. good to talk to you once again. we know the military is conducting an assessment of this test. what more do we know? >> what they're trying to figure out is what sort of -- what actually re-entered the atmosphere and how far the theoretical distance would be. they know it flew 37 minutes, straight up into the air. you extrapolate out on that and get something called the least energy trajectory, the l.e.t., and that gives you a sense it could travel more than 4,000 miles. this distinction on whether or not it is a intercontinental ballistic missile, what appears to be clear is what they tested yesterday could potentially hit alaska. trump has gone back and forth saying it will happen in terms of an icbm, but it looks like the initial assessments are this missile could hit parts of alaska. the other big question is have they successfully figured out


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