tv The 11th Hour With Brian Williams MSNBC July 5, 2017 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
wore yore to tell you the truth. she was a fighter. she was tough. that was the job for her. she would say there is nothing easy about it but she loved what she did. new york city police miosotis familia was 4 years old. after a day of celebration, the bronx, new york city and this country lost a hero last night in what sounded like fireworks but was actually the sound of an american tragedy. high stakes. with the whole world watching, president trump is in warsaw preparing for his first face-to-face vladimir putin. plus, north korea's nuclear threat. the missile that can reach america. high stakes. with the whole world watching, president trump is in warsaw preparing for his first face-to-face vladimir putin. plus, north korea's nuclear threat. the missile that can reach america. it caught u.s. intelligence off guard. now trump is forced to respond. the 11th hour begins now.
tonight --? brian has the night off. day 167 of the trump administration and with two big international challenges facing the president right now, we have one big question, what's the strategy. in two days, president trump will meet face-to-face with russian president vladimir putin for the first time since taking office. the "new york times" reports trump's aides are worried about that meeting with putin. they simply do not know what he'll say. before he heads to germany where the two will sit down, the president is expected to give what's billed as a major speech in a few hours in poland but his aides were still working on it even as the plane landed there earlier today. also tonight, the white house is sending a clear message to north korea after it tested an intercontinental ballistic missile. the window for a diplomatic solution is quickly closing. here's "uss ambassador to the u.n. nikki haley earlier today. >> yesterday's actions by north korea made the world a more dangerous place.
one of our capabilities lies with our considerable military forces. we will use them if we must. but we prefer not to have a to go into that direction. we have other methods of addressing those who threaten us and of addressing those who is supply the threats. we have great capabilities in the area of trade. president trump has spoken repeatedly about this. i spoke with him at length about it this morning. there are countries that are allowing even encouraging trade with north korea in have a violation of u.n. security council resolutions. such countries would also like to continue their trade -- such countries would also like to continue their trade arrangements with the united states. that's not going to happen. our attitude on trade changes when countries do not take international security threats seriously. >> before becoming president, trump had a simple solution to
handling north korea, put pressure on china. >> china has total control. believe me, china they die without china. but china's too smart. they're taking our money. they're taking our jobs, and everything and then we say could you help us with north korea, please, please, help us. china, they don't like to tell us but they have total control just about of north korea. they can solve the problem of north korea if they wanted to. but they taunt us. they say well, we don't really have control. without china, north korea doesn't even eat. china says they don't have that good a control over north korea. they have tremendous control. i would get on with china, let china solve that problem. they can do it quickly and surgically. that's what we should do with north korea. >> you look at north korea. we're doing nothing there. china should solve that problem for us. china should go into north korea. china is totally powerful as it
relates to north korea. >> but after meeting with china's president and talking about north korea, his approach seemed to change. >> first thing i brought up was north korea. said you got to help us with north korea because we can't allow it. it's no good for you. you have a tremendous power because of trade. is he then explains thousands of years of history with korea. not that easy. in other words, not as simple as people would think. >> he went on to write this on twitter this morning. "trade between china and north korea grew almost 40% in the first quarter. so much for china working with us. but we had to give it a try. let's bring in our starting panel, chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell will, eli stokols and national political correspondent for the "washington post" robert costa. andrea, i wonder if nikki haley's message at the u.n. is going to carry the day where she's got this very tightly scripted not a red line but a very direct threat about how
time is running out on the diplomatic front or if you could predict that this president might get pulled off that obviously carefully crafted message. >> i would predict that he would because first of all, appeals to the u.n. security council have not worked on north korea. they've been sanctioned but not secondary sanctions that really force china and chinese banks to stop propping up that regime. and it's in china's interests, they believe, to keep north korea as a viable state because they don't want to have a reunited korean peninsula with the u.s. as a predominant power there. they would rather have kim jong-un there even with his nuclear weapons which they think they can exert some leverage on. with that, they're going to veto any tough statement from the council. it was interesting she didn't present a resolution today because they can't agree on one
and haven't agreed on one. it will take days and days. it will get watered down. russia and china are working to the now and calling on the u.s. and south korea to stop their joint military exercises which for the first time included the firing of missiles last night after, of course, missiles into the water as sort of a signification, if you will, of their anger and their military response and readiness. but the fact is, this was a game-changer. this is a long-range missile, a two-stage ballistic missile fired more than 1700 miles up. that is way higher and farther into space than our orbiting space station, and it does have the range of an intercontinental ballistic missile. what they have not yet achieved we believe is a miniaturized and hardened nuclear weapon. they could reach alaska and our mainland now with their icbm. >> you mentioned russia, andrea. secretary of state rex tillerson
in the last hour talked about this high stakes meeting. >> exactly. >> between the president and vladimir putin. let me play what he said and get your reaction on the other side. >> sure. >> i think the important aspect of this is that this is where we have begone effort to begin to rebuild confidence between ourselves and russia. at the military to military level but also the diplomatic level. think it is an effort that serves both of our interests as well as the broader interests of the international community. we hope this is going to be the beginning of other important areas that need to be addressed in order to strengthen our relationship. but we're at the very beginning. i would say at this point, it's difficult to say exactly what the russia's intentions are in this relationship. i think that's the most important part of this meeting
is to have a good exchange between president trump, president putin over what they both see as the nature of this relationship between our two countries. >> andrea, excuse my bluntness. i mean no disrespect to the secretary of state. what is he talking about when he says an effort to rebuild confidence between ourselves and russia at the military level and the diplomatic level. russia hacked our election. there's no debate in this country whether that's a fact. what is he trying to say? >> he is trying to put some meat on the bones of a trump/putin summit which will not address the central fact of our relationship right now is that they hacked our election and that the intelligence officials, the entire intelligence community and bipartisan leaders in congress believe is a serious attack on the united states and needs to be investigated. one person does not accept that and that is the president of the united states and maybe the coterie around him, perhaps they view it as alternative facts. he's trying to give another aspect to the agenda and say they're going to talk about syria and post isis syria because raqqa in months to come
could follow mosul. there are indications that isis is breaking up in syria and they are making some progress. i'm hearing this from other ambassadors. that said, rex tillerson is home alone. we still have very -- 30 appointees so far. hundreds unfilled. not nominated. and jared kushner has a larger staff right now than does the secretary of state. there are about five people working for him directly. the others are acting assistant secretaries who downtown have any power. they're exercising the power in a vacuum, but the chiefs of mission at embassies around the world are afraid during a job freeze at state to exercise any kind of judgment or policy. most of them are just waiting for orders, orders that never come down. so tillerson is trying to say yes, there's an agenda for putin and trump and it doesn't have to involve that messy little
hacking thing. >> robert costa, it's pretty extraordinary point that andrea makes about the fact that jared kushner has a bigger staff of political appointees than the secretary of state does. but your paper has a piece right now saying at the g-20 summit, it looks more and more like trump against the world. from the piece i'm going to read a quote. officials are likely to face strains as they try to cobble together the joint statement because trump could easily block any language he feels tries to box him in on his trade or climate initiatives. trump col also risk alienating the white house from foreign leader who's often looked to the u.s. for leadership on all these issues. your paper and others pointed out he's already peeved with angela merkel that she's needled him on climate change in front of her own domestic audiences. i wonder the mind-set of the white house staff who in the minds of many botched the first stop with nato allies. are the stakes higher in their mind or are they simply basking
in what i believe to be our bussed in adoring crowds in poland and letting the president sort of -- letting trump be trump in front of adoring crowds albeit busted in crowds in poland? >> there are two currents that run through the trump administration's foreign policy. we've seen this in recent months. one is that jared kushner even though he's not secretary of state is in effect the shadow secretary of state, the person building the relationships for the president but it's important to note that as much as kushner is this key figure, he does not have a driving ideology. so he's this relationship builder. the other person is steve bannon and steven miller, the nationalists within the west wing are trying to build a new kind of foreign policy. you can expect president trump i'm told by my sources in the white house to hit nationalist themes in poland to talk about
poland as a nationalist success. this is a new way of approaching foreign policy. we've rarely heard the term nationalism in the u.s. foreign policy for a long time. now it's back. i think it's bannon shaping the ideas, kushner shaping the relationship. >> eli, robert lays it out perfectly these cross pressures. we were talking earlier today about the incoherence which is another way of seeing it in terms of foreign policy. i mean, he's in poland and really one of the greatest geopolitical threats to poland is putin. so how does he juggle sort of the incoherence of a national security strategy? >> he's going to give lip service at least to protecting poland and europe from russia and its ambitions but like robert said, he's going to focus on sort of embracing the government, the ruling party, the leader of poland who in trump's view and bannon's view sort of mirror in a european way is the nationalist populism that trump personifies in the united states. they have cracked down the media
in poland. there are a lot of things similar. he's going to praise that government. the problem is that doing so it's a photo op. he gets a nice picture of being embraces by the crowds, images important to trump. even if it may sort of be satisfying to them to see the merkels of the world upset with them, they're going to need these long-time allies on other things. they're going to need -- you need allies. this america first and like we're going to save the world from everybody, the incoherence has been there all along with trump's foreign policy. you're sort of sticking another finger in merkel's eye and the western european countries. that's necessarily showing a sort of long-term thinking. you have the meeting with putin. there are a lot of landmines on this trip.
haven't even talked about north korea. this is a president who kind of just goes one step at a time and does the feel good thing that's right in front of him. >> robert, weigh in and get the last word on this part of the conversation. is the white house trying to juggle the backdrop of the putin meeting or are they simply trying to get in and out of this for trip without making any mistakes like what most people saw as a botched stop at that nato summit. >> you could say all the above, nicole. this is a white house that knows putin meeting has a lot of consequence for them. they don't want to the put a huge emphasis on them even though they do want to reimagine u.s./russia relationships. they're still part of the republican party at home, a more hawkish republican party. they need to underscore some commitment to western europe even if it's not their natural inclination and want to the establish trump as some kind of nationalist figure in europe. >> amazing dynamics. i love the way you put it. robert, thank you for being with us.
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states that its missiles are intended to deliver nuclear weapons to strike cities in the united states, south korea and japan. and now, it has greater capacity to do so. >> that's u.s. ambassador to the u.n. nikki haley again showing just how seriously the administration takes north korea's missile launch test. andrea mitchell remains with us and getting us victor cha who just penned "the right way to play the china card on new york." and blues clingner now a north korea expert at the heritage foundation's asian study center. thank you all for being with us. andrea, you have new reporting about the missile launch taking u.s. intelligence agencies by surprise and about that warning from former president or outgoing president obama to incoming president trump about just this. >> well, in fact, this was a two-stage intercontinent is ballistic missile. immediately afterwards, we were told by u.s. officials, pentagon and intelligence officials that
it was a medium range ballistic missile. they did not realize immediately this was the first icbm, a two-stage missile which was capable if the trajectory were flattened out of reaching alaska at least. it went more than 1700 miles out into space. that is way farther than our orbiting space station. and it was really unexpected. they expected a missile test but they did not expect one that included an icbm. that was not foreseen. and it was on a mobile launcher. if you were considering a preemptive strike. there's a lot of talk we should take military action to take down a missile if we thought that a missile are on a launch pad and had a nuclear weapon, we should take preemptive action.
in this case, a satellite is unlikely to spot this missile which was liquid fueled but mobile, and very difficult to spot in the short amount of time that it was ready to launch. so there were only a couple of hours. they didn't see it quickly enough and were taken by surprise. the other piece we're reporting is it's been known former president obama did on november 10th at his first and only meeting with the oval office with donald trump, the president-elect, warn him that he should not be so worried about obamacare but that the biggest threat that he would face would come from north korea. what we've learned in the last 24 hours from multiple sources is that he also warned him of the impending development of an icbm and that that was the real threat. so he should have been braced for this. in should have been more study of it. my conclusion and other critics is that the process, because of the slow rampup of the filling of positions, of the deputy's positions and acting secretaries, they just have not
at all of the agencies defense and state in particular, gotten up to speed. and they're not really functioning to game plan all there. >> bruce, it's a pretty frightening picture that andrea paints. i wonder if i could get you to weigh in all of the talk now privately and publicly is on how to motivate the north korean leader to give up his nuclear arsenal if the last two men to do so ended up dead, saddam hussein and gadhafi in libya. how do you motivate someone to give up their arsenal if the two examples of people who did so ended up dead? >> in my meetings with north korean officials last month in europe, they made very clear that denuclearization was totally off the table. there's nothing the u.s. or south korea could offer to induce them to abandon their arsenal. that's consistent with other meetings na victor cha and others have had with north korean officials. so what we need to do is stop pulling our punches on pressure
tactics. there's misperceptioning that north korea is the most cutoff nation on earth and that's flat out wrong. the u.s. has done things to iran that we haven't done to north korea. for example, the u.s. unilaterally has sanctioned last year only the first time we sanctioned as many north korean entities as those we had sanctioned in zimbabwe. >> why is that? because china runs interference for them? why is that the case? >> there was a reluctance particularly by the obama administration from pressuring north korea. they were doing what i would call timid incrementalism. they would have a few entities sanctioned after each provocation. if you talk to people in the government who work sanctions, they'll say i have a list of chinese and north korean entities which are violating is u.s. law and we dole out a few and save the next for the next provocation. the obama and i think the trump administration so far has
continued to pull their punches. >> victor, do you see it that way as two presidents with very different world views pulling their punches when it comes to new york? >> i mean, in a sense i do. i think that you know, every u.s. president for the past three decades has taken a crack at this problem using negotiations, using sticks. and the problem has not been "uss policy. the problem has been as bruce noted that this is a country that is hell bent on keeping their nuclear weapons and developing a capacity to reach the united states to threaten the homeland of the united states. andrea and i travelled to north korea during the bush administration several years ago and we also had interaction with north korean officials. the one thing that i would say about the trump administration though is you know, i do feel that when president obama spoke to president trump about this on november 10th, i think he really, president trump got very tuned in on this issue.
and has had learned a lot. i mean he's become quite expert on the issue. and. >> do we have time for someone learning on the job? i mean, north korea seems to be all fired up and ready to go. are you reassured that the president is studying up? i mean, are you comforted? >> i'm not reassured by north korean behavior for sure. but when i look at what they've done which is to first send tillerson, mattis and pence to the region to shore up alliances and died if 86% of north korea's trade is with china, we have to first try with china to put pressure on the regime. >> how is that going in the president tweeted trade between china and north korea is up 40%. is he acknowledging his own failures. >> right. when that doesn't work, you directly sanction china which they started to do last week with the treasury department sanctioning a bank of dandong. this is a strategy almost any administration would follow being faced with the challenges
of a north korea on the threshold of icbm technology that could be operational. so you know, in the end, my point is that the problem is north korea. the problem is not that u.s. policy has been good in one administration or bad in the other. in every single case, the north koreans have been the one who's don't want to make an agreement or want to make agreements they can cheat on. that's why we're in the situation we're now in. >> scary stuff. we'll stay on it. thank you, andrea, victor and bruce. up next, what vladimir putin hope to get from donald trump last week. >> we're back after this. putin is a kgb operative by training.
putin is a kgb operative by training. he will read donald trump in a heart beat. and i tremble at the thought the two of them could be alone in a room. >> congress speaking ahead of the meeting for which the white house has no specific agenda. even the president's top aides do not note precisely what mr. trump will say or do when they meet face-to-face.
jack bar ski is a former spy during account cold war. he cooperated with the fbi and now an american citizen. and josh letterman foreign affairs reporter for the a.p. jack, you think we are ascribing to putin more ju-jitsu skills than he deserves. why is that. >> this is all self-aggrandizement. i worked with a lot of agents and i was one of the better trained agents. we were not supermen and we are not supermen. i couldn't help but laugh when i heard the stability that heal read mr. putin like an open book. everybody does. don't they? >> well, so what do you think from putin's standpoint then, what do you think he's trying to -- we've read he wants to have the compounds that president obama seized in the final days of his presidency as
pub punishment for meddling in the u.s. elections. what does putin want out of the meeting with the united states? >> i don't think it's about any specific goals. it's more or less about when two dogs meet for the first time in a dog patch, they size each other up and who is going to be the top dog. i pretty much guarantee you that putin's advisers told him back at the kremlin, look, there is going to be a great meeting because you're going to come out completelying like a rose because if anything compared to our president mr. putin is very slick. so he will play to the world audience. he will play to his home audience. and he will probably try to get sort of a psychological advantage over the other ego in the room. >> josh, do you think there's some white house strategy in putting out this whole there's no agenda for the meeting which i find impossible to believe. >> mr. trump, president trump will say whatever he wants to
say? do you think they're lowering the bar basically underground so that whatever happens in the meeting, if he doesn't hug him and kiss him on both cheeks, we all say the president stood up to vladimir putin? >> let's face it, even if this were any leader, trump's aides wouldn't necessarily know ahead of time exactly what he's going to say. so he's unpredictable and we sort of have that built into the cake now. we have to look at everyone here in washington is obsessed with what is going to happen if he gets played by putin. what does this look like? under obama you had putin slouching in his chair looking at obama later said he was the bored kid in the classroom and embarrassing the u.s. president that way. in this case, the worst thing that could happen as far as trump is concerned politically would be for putin to come out and give him a bear hug and to look to cozy with the american leader. that would be incredibly damaging. it's quite the opposite. >> let me stay with that.
if they are left alone in a room together as congressman conley said it, terrifies him the thought of it, they might be the only two people in a room who don't accept what everyone agrees to as a cold hard fact that russia meddleded in our election. watch what leading republicans and democrats had to say about that being fact. >> russia will continue to develop capabilities to use against the united states and we need to be ready to meet those threats. >> how much of a threat to global security do you consider the russian president. >> i think he is the premier and most important threat, more so than isis. >> russia continues to engage in exploitation of the u.s. elections process. >> we're talking about a foreign government that using technical intrusion, lots of other methods tried to shape the way we think we vote, we act. that is a big deal. >> i hope the american people recognize the severity of this threat and that we collectively counter it before it further erodes the fabric of our
democracy. >> i think we have to assume for all the reasons that have been discussed here that the russians will be back. >> they're coming after america which i hope we all love equally. >> so josh, i guess my question to you is, how does anyone on the white house staff watch that and contemplate anything other than what jeremy bash called a finger in the chest moment where president trump says to the russian president, hey, i'm the best partner you're ever going to have in the oval office but stay out of our democracy? >> certainly all of the political pressure coming from congress and other areas of washington is for trump to directly raise this issue and be pretty aggressive about it. i don't think there are a lot of the indications if trump raises it it's going to be top of the agenda. the only thing we know they are definitely going to talk about is syria. we found out a few hours ago from secretary tillerson. trump seems to be immune to the pressures of what other people in washington want him to say or focus on.
that's certainly true on twitter and might be the case with his meeting with putin, as well. >> we'll be watching together. thank you for spending time with us, to jack and josh. coming up, the backdrop to this trump/putin meeting. new details on the cloud hanging over the white house when we come back. can you love wearing powerful sunscreen? yes! neutrogena® ultra sheer. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®.
ltry align probiotic.n your digestive system? for a non-stop, sweet treat goodness, hold on to your tiara kind of day. get 24/7 digestive support, with align. the #1 doctor recommended probiotic brand. also in kids chewables. welcome back to the 11th hour. turning now to the investigations of the trump white house and russia. the guardian is reporting tonight investigators are exploring if russia colluded with pro trump sites during the election quoting from the piece, "investigators are looking intoing whether trump supporters and far right websites coordinated with moscow over the release of fake news or paid to boost the stories on facebook. let's bring in joe wine banks, one of the special prosecutors during the watergate scandal, kasie hunt, capitol hill correspondent, and eli stokols of the wall journal still with us. casey, where do the investigations stand.
>> at the point where they are casting as wide a net as possible and trying to sweep as much information into the net as they can. congress has a relatively light schedule. then there's an august break. that's not going to be a break for the staff working on these investigations. so you're seeing now reports in the media about new people they're interested in. it's kind of as they learn more. sometimes honestly from press reporting or from other places they are kind of widening the scope of that and trying to make sure they very every piece of information before they start trying to build conclusions. >> are they hitting any sort of pockets of resistance or is most of it about the timing of everyone coming before those committees? >> there are some timing issues. there have been a couple of conflicts between the two committees as they tried to work it out. jared kushner's testimony got delayed in the wake of reports about it. and there's been some frustration and back and forth.
as the concerns about what mueller has been up to, has escalated for some of the potential witnesses in these investigations. they have been approaching these committees more carefully. >> eli, there's reporting out tonight about how bob mueller's team was targeted by the president and his surrogates. they immediately went after any history of political donations on behalf of any of the attorneys working on behalf of the mueller resignation which is interesting because jared and ivanka's attorney is a very well respected democrat. i'm not sure what the point is. >> and the attorney who worked alongside mueller and that's why you hear kushner getting another lawyer because she didn't want the conflict of interest. >> i'm not sure what the purity test is that the trump team and -- >> you hit on something. you're right. this is sort of what they do. as soon as this happened and the special counsel appointed they went on the attack because whether they can win on the facts or not, one thing they
started doing right away is to go after the people coming after them, to slime ball or note these people he hired some of them donated to democrats. it's the same thing they're doing every day in terms of attacking the media. they did all the way through the campaign. served him pretty well with his base. right now, you have the situation this investigation hanging over him. and what he's doing, what he wants to be talking about is sarah sanders says he wants to talk about policy. no, he doesn't. he wants to talk about how biassed the media is. 14% of republicans actually trust the media. if he keeps it there, you've got about half the country that doesn't believe and isn't going to believe anything that gets reported about this investigation. they'll paint the whole thing with a broad brush, call it fake news and that may insulate no matter what is found out in the end from republicans moving on articles of impeachment or whatever else it is because his base will stay with him.
>> jill, that's a pr strategy. it's a political strategy. is it a sound legal strategy? >> it is not a sound legal strategy because all of the prosecutors no matter who they contributed to, no matter what their political views are, are doing their job. and that revolves around facts and evidence. it doesn't matter what their political views are. and what americans need to know is that they are good lawyers. and that they will do their job in the same way that the defense attorneys that have been hired will do their job no matter what their politics are. they will represent their clients and the prosecutors will do their >> jill, i don't know why i still feel surprised when i see all these sort of sacred things coming into sort of the target range for trump and his allies and their political attacks. i wonder what you think about bob mueller, someone who is a vietnam war veteran or a
recipient of the purple heart, someone who i think i can safely say george w. bush revered. he credited him with keeping the country safe after 9/11. he was the architect of knitting together the fbi and cia and connecting the dots. what did you think the first time you saw obviously in team trump's mind, he's fair game for political smears. >> everyone is fair game in the trump administration. and it doesn't make it true. i think what we need to keep in mind is what his record is and how revered he is not just by republicans but by all people. he has a great reputation as do the members of his staff. and i think they can be trusted. it is exactly what the trump has always done which is you attack, attack, attack. his mentor was roy cohn. when we talk about all the lawyers he's hired, that was someone who really has influenced him that any publicity is good publicity. if you say it loud enough and
often enough, then your supporters will believe it. in the same way he's attacking the press so that people won't believe what the press says is true, when he attacks the prosecutors, maybe his people will not believe that they are honest people who want to do their job. but i think most americans will come to see the facts and will trust the prosecutors. >> casey, the last word here. he does have a fire wall in that republicans in congress see him as george w. bush saw him as someone honorable and fair. >> he has an entire branch of government two branches of government here i think full of defenders. look, there were a lot of conversations when this president was first elected about how he was attacking intelligence agencies. he was attacking the national security apparatus and that the bureaucracy collectively was going to bite back. you've seen that from the department of justice, not in a public political way but they are continuing to methodically
do their jobs. it is something that the trump administration is distracted by every day. >> deep state witch hunt. that's what they're saying. >> thank to you jill and eli. casey is sticking with us. coming up, congress heads home and many of them appear to be in hiding, avoiding voters all together when we come back.
what i've been hearing the entire recess is people telling me to be strong, that they have a lot of concerns about the health care bill in the senate. they want me to keep working on it. but they don't want me to support it in its current form. >> that was republican senator susan collins yesterday taking part in a fourth of july prayed in her home state of maine. republicans went back home for the holiday recess facing backlash amid uncertainty over their health care bill.
collins was one of a handful of lawmakers that met with voters face-to-face. kasie hunt is still with us. joining the conversation, my friend and msnbc political analyst charlie sykes. what do you make of this, republicans passed a bill in the house. what do you make of this, republicans passed a bill in the house, celebrated in the rose garden, president called it mean, he's now leaning on the senate republicans to do the same thing. they're getting a lot of flak back home. >> there's not a lot of profiles, it's like run away run away. maybe they don't have a choice because what is it they're going to defend? they don't know what the bill is going to look like. if you're a conservative, you're realizing it's obamacare-lite except a little bit cheaper and a little bit crueller, and the uncertainty about the shape of the bill has got to freeze them.
you go into a town hall meeting and what is the case you make? you make the case that obamacare is bad. but generally if you have an idea that you really think is good, why would you hide? while they you be out there making the case? it's not just they're hiding from the town hall meetings. you'll notice that no one is making the case for this legislation. nobody in social media, nobody in the conservative media, the white house is not talking about it, and that's a tell. >> when you said profiles, i almost jumped out of my seat. that's what i thought about susan collins. she was forthright during the entire process. casey was hunting her down and she always talked to you. i think she spoke to the point you just made so perfectly that this is not a conservative solution for addressing the health care needs of americans. you called it more crew. what is this bill?
>> that's the big question here. what is this bill? and the fact is it's not really a health care by what's driving it are two things, number one, getting a win saying we fulfilled our promise, and number the works setting the stage for a massive tax cut for the rich. as a conservative who has argued for years the conservatives we're not talking about cutting the safety net in order to get rich people tax cuts, what do they do? they come up with a caricature of what would be a republican health care bill. i can understand if you're a senator you don't want to stand up and say let's slash medicare and come up with something that's going to disadvantaged low income people at a time when they're distressed. that is not an easy sell and obviously that's reflected in the apostles as well.
>> casey, what do you make of charlie's point that this is neither conservative nor is it a health care solution? what is the marketing job for a bill that is really -- what is it? >> well, i think that's exactly what the leadership have been struggling to try to explain. it's what people on either ends of the conference are saying. you have people like susan collins saying that would devastate poor people in my state and i'm not going to do it. and you have rand paul saying this doesn't repeal obamacare. it's hard to see the point of this legislation. look, i think that -- my sense there's a little bit of coordination on how to approach this town hall, period. this is to a certain extent so far has prevented difficult pictures or video of lots of lawmakers attacking the bill. you see some of those pictures from the house round. there are people doing modified public things.
i think that they want one more shot to do this before it's completely shot down by the public, and i think mcconnell knows if it was out there and took heat for this entire week, it's very possible the momentum would swing completely against him. >> the white house is getting pushback in their effort to obtain information on the state voter files from all 50 states. i think 45 of the 50 states, deep, deep red states, very, very blue states, no partisanship to the pushback, but big-time resistance. do you think the republicans are pushing back might be a path for republican resistance to an unconservative republican president?
>> i'm old enough to remember when republicans and conservatives talked about states' right and when the idea of the federal government coming in and intervening and asking for this kind of data would have been horrible. can you imagine what republicans would have said if the obama administration had argued that they wanted all of the states to give this kind of personal data about voters to the federal government? in a lot of ways this is a reminder that conservatives have always had a legitimate amount of skepticism about the federal government. obviously a skepticism that some of the folks in the trump administration don't share. >> this is why you and i belong to the same therapy group. charlie sykes, thank you for staying with us. news tonight on the status of congressmen steve scalise three weeks after he was shot. we're back after this.
we're back. casey, you have an update on congressmen steve scalise difficult news he's been moved back into intensive care listed in serious condition. they say this is about concern around a potential infection. sources close to scalise say that this is more caution than anything at this point and that they've said this is going to be a long and difficult road for him. hopefully this is not something as dire as it sounds, but
certainly a setback. >> that does it for us. we're back here tomorrow at 4:00. thank you before being with us and good night from new york. tonight --? putin has done an amazing job with our president has not been able to match. >> ahead of his meeting with vladimir putin. >> it's pretty clear -- >> new fears from inside the white house about what donald trump will say to putin. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails. >> new evidence that investigators are focusing in on. alleged trump will pursuit of hacked clinton e-mails. >> plus -- brutal new number for trump in the senate as republicans find new ways to avoid protesters.