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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  July 6, 2017 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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compare crowd sizes. bussing in trump supporters from other parts of the country after promising president trump a warm welcome for his key today note speech. this is what we're talking about in terms of people understanding how he can be played, including with lots of praise or lots of applause. and that's coming up in the next hour. poland, an interesting choice in that, first of all, if you're an american president and you want to send a tough message to the russians, poland is a pretty good place to start. that said, what we're seeing in the press conference which will report on gives vladimir putin a lot of reasons to be happy. but before we get to the news really quickly, let's do the setup on the country he's in. a recent pugh polled showed that 70% of polls had a favorable
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view of the united states of america. only 15% have an unfavorable view. that makes poland one of the countries that actually still has sfarly positive views of this country. on the other hand, fully 57% of the polls don't have confidence in donald trump to do the right thing on the world stage while just 23% do. they seem, mika, to be able to separate the country and the president. >> from the person. good morning, everyone. it's thursday, july 6th. welcome to "morning joe." with us today, we have senior political analyst mark halprin. his baby is very cute. the president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haas. >> what is he saying, willie? >> the beard is coming in. i think by labor day it will be there. >> no, that's probably enough, richard. >> for bbc world news america,
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katty kay and columnist for the washington joseph ignay joyce us, as well. so we may get an early incation of whether president trump will hold putin accountable accountable for meddling in the u.s. election. he quickly turned the tables against president obama and the media and america's own intelligence. >> well, i think it was russia and i think it could have been other people in other countries. it could have been a lot of people interfered. >> you've seen -- >> i said it very simply. i think it could very well have been russia, but i think it could well have been other countries and i won't be specific, but i think a lot of people interfere. i think it's been happening for
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many, many years. the thing i have to mention is that barack obama, when he was president found out about this in terms of if it were russia, found out about it in august. the election was in november. that's a lot of time. he did nothing about it. why did he do nothing about it? he was told it was russia by the cia, as i understand it. it was well reported. and he did nothing about it. they say he choked. well, i don't think he choked. i think what happened is he thought headquarter had headquarter was going to win the election and he said, let's not do anything about it. had he thought the other way, he would have done something about it. so he was told in either august by presumably the cia that russia was trying to get involved or meddling. pretty strongly with the election. he did nothing about it. the reason is, he thought hillary was going to win. and if he thought i was going to win, he would have done plenty about it. so that's the real question is
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why did he do nothing from august all the way to november 8th? why did he do nothing? his people said he choked. i don't think he choked. >> so the follow-up is for you on that, mr. president. your intelligence agencies have been far more definitive. they say it was russia. why won't you agree with them and say it was? >> let me start off by saying, i heard it was 17 agencies. i said boy, that's a lot. do we even have that many intelligence agencies? right? let's check it. and we did some very heavy research. it turned out to be three or four. it wasn't 17. and many of your come patriots had to change their reporting and they had to apologize and they had to correct. with that being said, mistakes have been made. i agree. i think it was russia and i think it was probably other people and/or countries and i see nothing wrong with that statement. nobody really knows. i remember when i was sitting back listening about iraq.
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weapons of mass destruction. how everybody was 100% sure that iraq had weapons of mass destruction. guess what? that led to one big mess. they were wrong and it led to a mess. so it was russia, but i think it was probably others, will say and that's been going on for a long period of time. my question is, why did obama do nouth about it from august all the way to november? if he did nothing about it and it wasn't because he choked. >> so, willie, if you're keeping score at home, this is remarkable. off united states president on foreign soil attacking the cia, attacking our intelligence communities, attacking america's free press on foreign soil, and attacking a foreign -- attacking former president of the united states.
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while seem to go try to jungle two ultimate realities, number one, maybe it was russia, maybe it was the fat dude in jersey, maybe it was other state players. so he says that first. then he goes to it was russia. and his words here, the cia pretty strongly warned barack obama that it was russia and did nothing. so when barack obama comes up, russia was the one that interfered in our elections and he had pretty strong evidence about it. >> well, there are two pieces of this. the first is the one you alluded on to which is the president of the united states ripping another president of the united states on foreign soil. >> and the cia and the american press. >> that's unseemly on its own. where he's wrong again, and how he followed up on this is he won't just come out and say that russia had something to do with
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it cleanly. he'll say yes, they may have had something to do with it, but it could have been china and someone else. that's what he's been saying going back to hillary clinton in october, october 7th at we all know at this point. the intelligence agencies came out. jay johnson said on this set a couple of weeks ago and reiterated the evidence and intelligence that he had. they came out and said, yes, russia interfered in our election. so the question, again, for president trump is why do you disagree with your intel agencies? do you know something or are you hiding something? what's the reason that you won't go along with this? >> he doesn't know anything that his intel agencies aren't telling him any more. he won't come out and admit -- i don't know what vladimir putin has over him, but what everybody else knows. he's still talking about, well, maybe russia, maybe another state, maybe the fat guy in jersey, he says other people. and at the same time, again, when barack obama's name comes up, he is certain russia interfered and he had strong
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evidence that russia interfered, but he did nothing. >> his whole answer is out of piece with what he said in the past, but it's more significant because he's about to meet with vladimir putin. and i think a lot of people were hoping that his answer would be more directed towards warning the russians because now, within that room, the people who are fearing that he will not be tough on putin for russia's interference in the election, i think, are going to be more worried that he's going to just bet and the fat guy in jersey better go on the lam. >> richard, there are obviously negative -- negative sievens already being sent out by donald trump. there were a few things in the national media to look at and say, well, maybe there is -- he is showing a bit of restraint with putin, one being, of course, that he talks about -- well, first of all, he's in poland, as we said before, but
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secondly talked about how the future of western civil zaipzation is at risk ask we have to stand up to it. he does talk about russian interference. how do you juggle all that? >> well, it's a juggle, even going to poland is a juggle because with on one hand, they are spendsing 2%. it is one of the more anti-russian policies. on the other hand, poland is one of the more liberal countries in europe. so it's a balancing -- it's no accident, shall we say, that he's in poland. in terms of russia more blod broadly, you've got three baskets, maybe four baskets on of concerns. you've got the election interference, you've got ukraine and the potential interruption to europe and the fact that russia is playing a larger role in north korea. they are begin to go compliment the chinese and providing something of a lifeline to north korea. so he's got an enormous agenda. this dancing around reluctant to pin the tail on the donkey, obviously, is not the best way to deelt with this meeting. you want to have putin on the
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defensive. i don't quite understand why he's giving him a sort of pass here. >> let's back up. just in terms of international optics, what comes to mind when you watch the few minutes there of the president speaking? >> you know, i think we have a snapshot, really, today of a world -- richard would like this, the world really is in disarray. .you have the north korean threat as trump arrives in europe. the europeans are clearly not going to stand shoulder to shoulder any more. angela merkel took the president's arrival in europe as a chance to have a big interview in the paper about how she doesn't see eye to eye with president trump and president trump is out on a limb in terms of his view at the moment and at the same time you've got president trump picking fights with the chinese and refusinging to reject russia's view of its interference in the u.s. election and russia's view of its role in the world at the moment. so you couldn't have a more destabilized world at a time
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when the united states seems to be in retreat from leadership and european countries and the chinese and the russians have all recognized that and are starting to jostle and form their own alliances. >> so you're good at this. what would have been a better way to answer the question, joe, that could have been perhaps more stabilizing, more cohesive, perhaps more polite, perhaps less embarrassing internationally? >> well, what you would want to do on is, and i think everybody would recognize this, acknowledge it. russia tried to interfere in our elections. >> and what about a unifyingco he's itch response to it? >> russia tried to interfere in our elections. we are meeting with vladimir putin tomorrow. we want to seek assurances that they will never do it again so we can put it behind us and begin worrying about things that are going to matter in 2017 and not 2016. syria, the threat from north korea, the other threats across the country -- across europe. >> so you didn't have to study
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up for that. that just -- but david ignacious, it's all personal with him. we tried to talk about it yet yesterday. even if you do not believe russia had an impact on the outcome of the 2016 election, but still tried to interfere with the election, donald trump simply cannot admit one because he thinks it undercuts his election. how about clearing this up for our viewers. donald trump says the intel communities did not all come out saying that russia tried to interfere in our elections. what can you tell us on thursday, july 6th, 2017 about what we know based on our integ communities and what russia did in the 20 16 elections? >> the director of national intelligence who represents the 17 different agencies issued a statement in october, very
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specifically blaming russia for this meddling in our election. he spoke for all the agencies he has. it is true that the specialized intelligence of that russia actions, planning, had been guard by only several of those agencies, but he was speaking as they say in a church ex cathedra. so i think that's sort of a silly technical point. watching trump's bland defensive performance in poland, you would not know that he is heading toward what i think will be the most fateful days of his presidency so far. we have a real life crisis now with north korea. and the the president's ability to respond to it creatively, firmly, wisely, is going to be crucial, literally, for war and peace in northwest asia. and you just have to hope that
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he is better prepared pore that meeting and the comments in poland would have indicated. he's going to need to work with russia so the idea of not closing the door to russia, what he should have said was there is a special contract investigating this matter. i'm going to leave the judgment about what happened to him. >> .pigs would be flying around warsaw. >> this is an odd time for the president to be raising questions internationally, standing on the soil of another country, about the track report .believability of the american intelligence community. yes, we got it wrong or they got it wrong in iraq, but we're
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about to have a conversation with the world where we are likely to be saying, we know about north korea. and this is going to be based on american intelligence. we're going to be trying to rally international support for whatever it is we do based on american intelligence findings. it's an odd time to basically be saying you can't believe the cia or the intelligence community about iraq. center i'm certain that his foreign policy team didn't preparing him that. >> as we said before, you're on foreign soil. >> riffing? >> i remember being very, very critical of former majority leader harry reed for attacking george w. bush when he was in russia, he called him stupid or
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an idiot or something like that. i forget exactly what the words were. for a sitting president to be on foreign soil, we can't really underline this enough and attack america's intel community on foreign soil and attack america's free press on foreign soil, long seen by others as a city chinaing brightly on the hill for all the world to see. for him to attack american institutions two days after the fourth of july on foreign soil the day before we meet america's chief advocacy is nothing short of disgusting. >> and mika is right, this is a
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riff. this is not in response to prepared remarks. as you said, you cannot let any slight go unpassed. he had to talk about russia kwab but remind the world that it was not he, but president trump who had a chand to do something about it. >> and when president trump had a chand to do something about it, suddenly it was russia and he knew it was russia and the cia gave him strong evidence that it was russia. center and there is a case to be made that president obama should have done more been but that's not a time to bring that up. >> kier, how are people there reacting to what the president said so far? >> i think he guys have it exactly right. president trump here in hamburg faces the most difficult
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diplomatic days vovr. you've been talking about when it comes to russia being fully prepared to say russia was responsibility for intervention in the u.s. elections. he was not prepared to talk about article five of nato. he talked about the security of europe, but the europeans will want him to be much more specific than that. then when it came to north korea, he said i was some pretty severe things that we are thinking about. so as president xi and president putin prepare foss those meetings, they won't know what president trump is going to say there. nor do we.
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at the same time, he took the opportunity to talk about or stumble into to direct attention, again, to his criticism of parts of the media after he tweeted that wrestling video in relation to krn. take a listen. >> since you started the whole wrestling video thing, what are your thoughts about what has happened since then? cnn has come back and -- >> i think what cnn did was unfortunate for them. as you know, they have some serious problems. they have had some fake news issues for a long time. they've been covering me in a dishonest way. do you have that, also, by the way, mr. president? what cnn and others, nbc is equally as bad, despite the fact that i made them a fortune with "the apprentice," but they forgot that. but i will say that krn has really taken it took seriously
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and i think they've had hurt themselves very badly, very, very badly. and what we want to see in the united states is honest, beautiful, free but honest press. we want to see fair press. i think it's a very important thing. we don't want fake news. and then we had an example of the effect that that fake news argument from president trump has around the world because immediately the polish president took the opportunity to criticize some parts of his own media for them being tough on him. so the fake news, that claim does not just stay within the borders of the united states domestically. governments around the world see it and react to it. >> all right. nbc's kier simmons with us in germ fee ahead of the g20 summit. thank you very much. center what about his comments on attacking american news
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media? secondly, let's talk about the meeting with vladimir putin lining up at the same time the crisis with north korea escalates. >> again, the media comments wefrg he said before, but the timing of it in a region of the world where the comments of press freedom is an important one. no other president in our lifetime probably would say such a thing. the north koreans love to being able to come mate the conversation, but this summit is important, but the meeting with putin is so important. .i think the president is going to go in there had confident that he can charm putin, dominate putin, get something for the u.s. out of the meeting. but he's going up against a guy with a lot more experience and a guy who i think probably has sized up the president really well. so the meeting is all about, you know, why do they have to meet face-to-face? that's what summits are about. but the president is going into something he has never dealt with before against a very experienced guy. >> is there any prep for these news conferences from his team? >> well, traditionally there
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would be a lot of prep and you would go through mock press koerchss. when i worked at the white house, you do that sort of thing. there seems to be much less of it here, shall we say. >> what does mcmasters or mattis or any of the folks in there thinking when they watch this? are they psyched? >> you can't be psyched. it shows what we do here is far -- we don't think with what we do domestically as foreign policy, but everything we do domestically is foreign policy because we used to say the whole world is watching. this is mana from heaven for the likes of the polish president, this is good for the ur derdogas of the world. the country that's most voeshted with democracy in the world delegitimizes the press and basically calls news, fakes news and the rest, it gives these guys license to essentially do what america does. and this is just wrong and this weakens the fabric of the
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society. >> crystalize what richard just said. the bottom line here is -- >> well, david ignacious, as we go to break really quickly, this not only emboldens our enemies and autocrats across the globe, but at the same time, it damages donald trump. it is what we call a 36, 37, 38% solution for donald trump. you can look at polls over the past week. he got savaged for attacks against people in the mead where a. it does not help his poll numbers. while he's providing comfort to our enemies, he's depressing his own base. >> joe, i think you put your finger on something important. donald trump, over the next two days, is heading into a major international crisis of how to
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deal with the north korea that is now genuinely threatening the united states and its neighbors. he is a very unpopular president at home, maybe uniquely so with our modern presidents. that's not a good position to be in at a moment where he needs to work creatively with partners and with adversaries, with china and russia, to solve this big, dangerous problem. we should all regret that he's so unpopular when he needs on speak for the whole country. >> very uneasy times. ahead of tomorrow's meeting between president trump and president putin, we'll bring in former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfall.
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also, the former director of the national counterterrorism center, mikat leiter. and the crowds are gathering in poland where the president is set to deliver a big speech. much more ahead. "morning joe" is coming right back. whoooo.
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pact in the soviet bloc, they saw the united states as the principal agent of their freedom, of essentially getting them out from under. and the many of them have moved in the direction of markets, they've become more democratic. the united states more than the europeans often many of whom are reluctant, the u.s. has been seen as their principal helper and their principal example. poland, however, began has gone a different direction. by .large, they're appreciative, but they genuinely admire who we are. so they like the united states, but when it comes to president trump, it's a little different. >> it is. >> the pugh survey shows that 57% of the polls do not have confidence that donald trump will do the right thing. so it's interesting, the pols are one of the countries that can separate their feelings for
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the pt and the country. interest the president does not inspire much confidence in europe. just 7% in spain are confident he will do the right thing. 10% in sweden. 11% of germans. 14% in france. 22% of the british and 25% in t italy. throughout the world, confidence in the president is weak. just 5% in mexico. >> wow. i never saw that coming with mexico. >> 11% in teshgky, 22% in canada, 17% in krouth korea swb 24% in japan and 29% in australia. the president does have some confident scores in the philippines, vietnam, nigeria, israel and a few other countries, including russia where 53% in the russian federation think he will do the right thing on the world stage. break it down for us. >> so pugh polled people in 37 countries and the average of
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people who think that donald trump will do the right thing for the world is only 22%. that compares to barack obama who had something like 64% confidence around the world when he left office. and it's partly politics and it's partly personality. it's things like pulling out of the tpp, withdrawing america from the paris climate accord, a sense of isolationism, people don't like those things. but it's also about the president's personality. so most people around the world, according to this poll, believe president trump is arrogant. they think he is even dangerous for world affairs. on the flip side of that, some people do have a positive view. they think that he is strong and even some had think that he is charismatic. but you're right, overall, the picture is not great for president trump. i think the big question is what does this do for america and for america's national security? because there will come a time where america needs its allies, it needs its intelligence to be believed.
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we may be on the threshold of that moment right now. and going to this g20 summit with the world so opposed to you, your policies, your sense of isolationism, it's going to be very hard for america to rebuild from this.the. >> staggering. >> and willie, our research assistance, richie haas -- he's so cute. >> he's going places. he just needs to learn how to shave. he passed over a note saying 17%, only 17% if in south korea have a positive view of the united states right now at an extraordinary -- >> of the united states or the president? >> to trust us to do the right thing. >> to do the right thing. if we can't stay on the same page with south korea as we try to deal with north korea, we will have an enormous diplomatic problem and daylight emerges between us and our allies. the. >> and the japanese numbers are only slightly higher and the president has had a good relationship with the zap niece prime minister. so those two numbers, i thought, tons of shocking numbers, those
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numbers stand out particularly in light of what's going on with north korea. >> so david, what's the practical impact of these numbers? you go do, you look at the list, many of them are reflective of what we hear, you've been our ally in the united states, we think you might have made a mistake in 2016 and we still believe in you. but some of those are even drifting. what does that mean to foreign policy in the united states? willie, i fear what it means for donald trump is it reinforces his feelings that at the end of the die wsh itday, it's america. our allies don't spend enough for defense, they don't support me and my policies. this is a time where an embattled u.s. president feeling isolated could easily make a miscalculation. so i hope in these meetings with allies, he will meet with the
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japanese prime minister. he will meet obviously with president xi and president putin, that the conversations will be such that they produce a joint action to deal with these problems. as our commanding general in south korea said, it's also that our president talk with other leaders. these figures, these numbers show you how difficult that will be. donald trump's instinct will be to say the i can't trust anybody, i'm going to do it myself. coming up, live to warsaw. >> the numbers are staggering. >> across the world. only one in five. >> he's hated. >> a special relationship with great britain, only one in five have confidence. >> how does that happen? how do you plummet so low? >> donald trump has actually laid out a wonderful playbook for anybody who wants to see their approval ratings drop to record lows.
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and lower, the image of america across the globe. and the numbers are all here and you can look at what he's done over the past six months examine there's your playbook. we're going to go live to warsaw where the president is set to address the polish people just over half an hour from now. but first, david ignacious says america's best path in syria may be working russia. we'll explain why in our must-read opinion pages. we, the people, are tired of being surprised with extra monthly fees. we want hd. and every box and dvr. all included. because we don't like surprises. yeah. like changing up the celebrity at the end to someone more handsome. and talented.
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we're working with poland and we're grateful to be working with a member of one of the nations that meets its financial obligations. as you know, i've had pretty hard on some members of nato for not and the money is pouring in, i can tell you. i was criticized, but i can say the people of nato aren't criticizing me. they're pretty happy. the money has been hourg in in the last year, far greater than
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it ever would have been. >> to watch the polish president react, he seems fairley uncomfortable. >> so working with russia might be the best path to peace in syria. >> and russian/american cooperation in syria faces a huge obstacle right now. it would legitimize a russian regime that invaded ukraine and meddled in u.s. and european elections in addition to its intervention in syria. putin's very name is toxic in congress and the u.s. media these days. and trump is blasted for even considering compromise. against these negatives, there's only one positive argument. working with russia might be the ohm way to reduce the level of violence in syria and create a foundation for a calmer, more decentralized nation that can eventually recover from its tragic war. cooperationing with the russians and syria would be distasteful, given their past actions, but spurting them would keep this
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volatile country at the flash point and almost certainly makes things worse rather than better for all sides. >> david, how is the russian experiment working in syria right now? do they want to stay there indefinitely? would they like to make peace with the united states there and figure out a way to de-escalate? >>o, everything that i can see from conversations both in moscow and then my little holiday in syria last week tells me that the russians are nervous about getting caught, about getting stuck in a quagmire in syria and are more willing to talk to the u.s., work with the u.s., than they have been in the past. one thing that i heard from our commanders in syria is that over the last three weeks, the effort to work with the russians, to find a -- what they call a declon flikz line, a line below
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which we can operate, above which the russians won't move, that has been surprisingly successful. and our top diplomates brief this is something we can work with. and i think this is now a pathway. i think there is abdomen opportunity here to do something that will save syrian lives, reduce violence, and i don't think compromises any fundamental u.s. interests with russia. so i think that's the heart of
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what i expect that trump and putin will be talking about. >> i'm pretty sure if the president said to you, what should i leave putin with having best case snasho, what would they come out with in the world? >> that the russians would not work with the chinese in any way, that they would stop their destabilization in eastern ukraine, they would back off interference in american and western electiones and in syria, along the lines that david said, we would find ways not to solve the syrian problem, but there could be some local cease-fires, some areas where syrians could stay or return to abdomen appropriate where you create pockets or areas of stabilities. why would we great to this? >> the last one, i think david is right, they're not looking for massive investment. they've had a great return on investment. this has been a small market
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with remarkable investment. putin doesn't want to see body bags coming home. the last time that happened in syria's numbers was afghanistan. i think his goals in sear yeah are much more modest than, say, iran. i think it's tough ner afghanistan. tougher in north korea, obviously. and he has to decide how important cyber going to be and destabilization. he has to decide, essentially, whether he will been to be a real spoiler because he hasn't had great success recently in europe, whether he's going the reign that in or condition that and we have to decide how much of a price we are going to put on him if he does continue. we have to make it clear that if this continues -- i think we should be impressit about the implications of that. >> one of the things they were clear on last nice were the
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enforcement of no fly zones over syria. but wouldn't they be flying different missions? how do they get together on a no-fly zone when their interests are so different? >> interestingly, there's a lot more discussion that take place certainly than i realized. many times every day at the level of colonels, they talk to deconflict air space. less frequently at the level of one and two-star generals and occasionally at the level of three-star generals. our commander in baghdad talk bes the russian, the colonel general to figure out who goes where. so a lot of this discussion is going on and what people kept saying to me is it seems to be holding. i think the thing that we have to remember about vladimir putin
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is part of the chip on his shoulder is that he wants to be taken seriously, not just as a military power, but as a great power that can solve conflicts. so a joint diplomatic effort by the united states and russia to stabilize syria would be something that i think putin would welcome. it shows him in a different light. the danger is rewarding putin, letting putin come in out of the cold without demanding that he do certain additional things to stabilize ukraine, to get his part of the world out of the mess that it's been in. >> so the international back truck, catty kay, what is the view from abroad of the united states relationship with russia right now? >> europeans for a long time have felt china was a better bet as a partner. and you've seen a lot of activity during the course of this week between the german chancellor and president xi on china on things like climate
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change and russia was not such a good partner. they've been far cooler on russia for far longer than the united states has. there's a great op-ed today in "the washington post" by the former deputy director of the cia mike morrell who is positing how the russians think about this and it poses the question whether the united states can trust russia on anything. the question on over syria will be so you do a deal on syria, what else do you get in return and how much can you take russia or his word? it's sticky cooperation with the u.s. >> thank you very much. still ahead, long time ambassador michael mcfall dealt with russian leadership for years and he has some advice for president trump. what he says the president needs to read before tomorrow's meeting with vladimir putin. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪
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house majority whip steve scalise is back in intensive care this morning as he recover from last month's ambush shooting on a baseball field. the office of the louisiana congressman put out a statement late last night that he has been readmitted to the intensive care unit due to new concerns for infection. his condition is listed as serious. scalise was the most seriously injured of the four people shot in alexandria, virginia while practicing for the baseball game. up until recently, he'd been listed in fair condition. his office will issue an update later today. >> coming up, is china using the north korea crisis to box in the crisis? the united states says there may be a way to deescalate the tensions. president trump is set to
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hoss, david ignacious and steve kornacky and elizabeth miller. >> we're showing signs of the president this morning at a press conference. he's going to be speaking. he's set to give a major speech to the people of warsaw, and the crowds are starting to line up. it's 12:58 p.m. right now in warsaw. when he does speak, we'll take it live. the president has already made news this morning with a press conference, mika. >> yes. >> starting with a question of hallie jax sckson. >> she asked president trump if he believed that the kremlin interfered in the election. he turned the tables on obama. >> what we found in this answer, and listen to it.
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it's fascinating. i know this won't surprise anybody that's followed the president for some time, but there are several alternate realities in there. if donald trump is just talking about whether russia hacked or tried to interfere in our election or not, when he's just talking generally about it, he said it could be anybody, but when he brings up barack obama, he says barack obama was given specific evidence that it was russia, and president obama ignored it. >> he talked about america's own intelligence community. take a listen. >> well, i think it was russia, and i think it could have been other people in other countries. it could have been a lot of people interfered. i said it very simply. i think it could very well have been russia, but i think it well could have been other countries, and i won't be specific, but i think a lot of people interfere. i think it's been happening for a long time. it's been happening for many, many years. the thing i have to mention is
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that barack obama when he was president found out about this in terms of if it were russia, found out about it in august. now, the election was in november. that's a lot of time he did nothing about it. why did he do nothing about it? he was told it was russia by the cia as i understand it. it was well reported. and he did nothing about it. they say he choked. well, i don't think he choked. i think what happened is he thought hillary clinton was going to win the election, and he said let's not do anything about it. had he thought the other way, he would have done something about it. he was told in early august by presumably the cia that russia was trying to get involved or mettling pretty strongly with the election. he did nothing about it. the reason is he thought hillary was going to win. and if he thought i was going to win, he would have done plenty about it. that's the real question is why
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did he do nothing from august all the way to november 8th? why did he do nothing? his people said he choked. i don't think he choked. >> the followup for you, you again say you think it was russia. your intelligence agencies have been far more definitive. they say it was russia. why won't you agree with them and say it was? >> let me start off by saying i heard it was 17 agencies. i said that's a lot. do we have that many intelligence agencies? let's check it. we did some heavy rerng. it turned out to be three or four. it wasn't 17, and many of your compatriots had to change their reporting and apologize and correct. now, with that being said, mistakes have been made. i agree. i think it was russia, but i think it was probably other people and/or countries, and i see nothing wrong with that statement. nobody really knows. nobody really knows for sure. i remember when i was sitting
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back listening about iraq, weapons of mass destruction. how everybody was 100% sure that iraq had weapons of mass destruction. guess what. that led to one big mess. they were wrong. and it led to a mess. so it was russia, and i think it was probably others also, and that's been going on for a long period of time. but my big question is why did obama do nothing about it from august all the way to november? he did nothing about it. and it wasn't because he choked. >> elizabeth, it is hard to follow exactly the line of reasoning in there. he takes so many paths, different paths and goes down so many rabbit trails. one thing is obvious. he did three things in that answer. one, he attacked the united states' intelligence community. two, he attacked america's free
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press, and three, he continued his obsession on the 44th president of the united states, and he attacked him. all three of those attacks coming on foreign soil. it's remarkable. i remember conservatives losing their minds when a country band criticized george w. bush in a concert in england. what are your thoughts this morning listening to the president trashing american institutions while abroad? >> i think on one hand he is right that the obama administration was very slow to react to the reports of russian interference in the election. there's no doubt about that. however, you can also talk to people today and say the trump administration is not doing enough to prevent this from happening in 2018 and 2020 right now. the other thing that's happening here is that if you talk to anybody at the white house, this is one of the president's
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greatest fears is that any talk of russian influence in the 2016 election, and their evident desire to have donald trump elected completely delegitimizes his victory, and so you see him attacking obama and not focusing on the fact that it was russia and they were trying to get trump elected according to major intelligence agencies. i also thought it was interesting that the president said he didn't know there was 17 intelligence agencies which is interesting. so i think that is what is going on here. it is a -- it was a long answer, and it was attempt once again to deflect all the focus on the obama administration and not on the trump administration. and also, it is it's one of the most worrying things for the president. it doesn't leave him -- this stuff never leaves him. it also sets up a very risky
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meeting on friday with president putin. >> is this a sign, or should we at all be worried, david, that this is the sort of attitude tone approach he's taking as he goes into these meetings? it doesn't seem to be kind. i'll try and be charitable. it doesn't seem very well prepared. >> it is a puzzle why donald trump, every time this subject comes up, looks for in effect, excuses not to blame vladimir putin. that's been consistent now for many months. on this question of why barack obama waited so long to do something, i think obama does deserve criticism, but let's remember. at the time this scandal was breaking last summer and fall, donald trump was in effect saying bring it on. if the russians have got hack material, why don't they hack
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hillary clinton's e-mails and release those? and at the same time, a key republican members of congress in the most secret committees that we're being briefed about russian actions were very resistant to doing anything. were giving counsel to the white house. i think it's disingenuous -- >> why is that, david? mitch mcconnell knew about that. why was he counseling in the middle of the election for president obama to do nothing on this? >> joe, in the end, that's a puzzle, and robert mueller is going to have to sort that out. as near as we can tell there were democrats like adam schiff in this so-called gang of eight who were saying back in august and september a much stronger response is needed. and mcconnell was saying no, go slow, and i think he was afraid that a stronger response would have the effect of helping the democrats and putting the
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russian actions in a light that made it harder for trump, but those are guesses right now. the way trump presented this on foreign soil, i think had some very misleading elements. >> and he's now going to be meeting tomorrow with after attacking american journalists, he is now going to meet with the leader of russia who actually assassinates journalists who disagree with him? >> yeah. and there's no evidence at this point yet that he's going to confront vladimir putin about russian interference into the hacking. we don't know yet. if he thinks he's going to slap putin on the back and charm him the way he has people his whole life, he's in for a surprise. that's not how putin does business. in response to hallie jackson's question, the hemming and hawing, it may been other countries, nobody knows who exactly it was.
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he won't just say yes, russia interfered. you can say yes, there was russian interference but no, i had nothing to do with it. i mean, that's a good place to be if you're the president. >> yeah. i think what we know about donald trump is psychologically, i'm not sure he can do that. i think this is a president, and we've never had a president like this before. he understands politics. entirely through what's presented on cable news. he absorbed the messages from cable news, and he responds to them and believes that sort of is the definition of his presidency, whether it's succeeding or failing. i think when he watches cable news, he sees one critic after bring up russia and collusion, he sees with anger and i think when the question is raised, he takes it as any acknowledgment that russia tried to do anything in the united states election is akin to telling people my election wasn't legitimate.
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i think the split, given his understanding of politics, i don't know that he's capable of that. the other thing i would say, with a name like mine, i have to mention poland. you were mentioning on the show earlier there's a split between polish opinion where they revere americans and they're concerned about trump. and the concern about trump has to do with vladimir putin and russia. you're talking about a people who lived under soviet domination for generations. talk to my grandmother growing up, uncles, aunts and my family and about society union and russia, the memories, it's seared into their consciousness. to have an american president that might be close to put season their number one concern. the numbers are pretty staggering, and you've got to think that this trip is going to generate so such coverage all over the world. richard, i'm curious why you think people are keying off of in all these countries to think
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that about president trump? is it about president trump or his style? what would cause public opinion all over the world to have doubts about the president? >> the answer is yes, and this is not what they think of america when they see donald trump and have a vision of american culture, this is not what they expect. i've had many leaders say that, and then there's asia they're concerned about the united states unilaterally leaving the transpacific partnership. concern about leaving the paris climate change agreement. raising questions about alliances in europe. the softness toward repeated softness toward putin and russia. it's a combination of discreet policy differences. essentially the united states, which was the principle foundation of the global order, now pulling back from it. we have repeal but not replace. this is simply -- and they feel vulnerable and uncertain. they made a choice to depend on
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us and look at a range of behavior from the campaign through the transition to now, and they want to respect america. they might disagree with us, but they want to respect us, and at time they're finding it impossible to respect us and identify with us in cht. >> it's interesting. the part of the speech he's about to give that have been released suggests he's going to reassert that americans are going to lead the world. >> president trump also spoke this morning about this week's intercontinental ballistic missile test by north korea. >> not only must we secure our nations from the threat of terrorism, but we must also confront the threat from north korea. and that's what it is. it's a threat. and we will confront it very strongly. president duda and i call on all nations to confront this global threat and publicly demonstrate to north korea that there are consequences for their very, very bad behavior. as far as north korea is
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concerned, i don't know, we'll see what happens. i don't like to talk about what i have planned, but i have some pretty severe things that we're thinking about. that doesn't mean we're going to do them. i don't draw red lines. president obama drew a red line, and i was the one that made it look a little bit better than it was, but that could have been done a lot sooner and you wouldn't have had the same situation that you have right now in syria. that was a big mistake. but i think we'll just take a look at what happens over the coming weeks and months writh respect to north korea. it's a same that they're behaving this way, but they are behaving in a very, very dangerous manner, and something will have to be done about it. >> it seems like everything always goes back to barack obama. >> he's obsessed. >> he talks about barack obama traveling all over the world. >> barack obama was a popular president. people really liked him around the world and in america. >> he doesn't have to travel
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around the world. he could live rent free in donald trump's brain. he's so in his head in everything that he does. we've seen it in the press conference this morning. >> elizabeth, the president was trying to talk about north korea, and an international crisis that coincidentally barack obama told him during the transition, you can worry about obama care if you want to, but north korea is going to keep you awake at night. how does any american president deal effectively with a crisis like this when only 17% of the country according to this latest pew poll actually trusts his actions? >> well, that's -- that is an issue that he's going to face. right now there's no -- obviously no american president has found a good answer to north korea. i've been in washington a long time and of the last three or four american presidents, have all wrestled with this. they have continued at a pace to develop their nuclear program.
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you saw he was, again, as you mentioned, he was laying a lot of blame at barack obama's doorstep, and he also said i'm considering very serious things, but he didn't say he was going to do them. there's not a whole lot he can do militarily. there was talk of sanctions. promised more sanctions, and then he has to lean on president xi of china and try to get china to pressure north korea. as you know, that's not gone well at all, and president trump expressed disappointment in china for not stepping up and doing the right thing in his view. but i do think it was interesting how much he blamed obama for this once again. >> once again, north korea blaming the president. president obama also for russian hacking and nothing being done. right now, we are seeing the trumps and the dudas coming out. richard, i want to just follow up briefly with what elizabeth
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said. we all remember 1994. president clinton sent former president carter over to north korea. they thought they achieved the deal. the north koreans actually broke that deal. the bush administration discovered that, called north korea's bluff out of them. but the bush administration wasn't able to do anything to stop this march forward toward an advancement of their nuclear program and the obama administration as elizabeth said, like the previous administrations also couldn't come up with a suitable answer. so what does the trump administration do? >> you only have three options. you're right. this has drifted for two and a half decades. people keep hoping the options get better. they never do. we only have three options. one is to live with it with a
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combination of deterrence and defense. that means having confidence in their rationality. the second option is to attack. that's where the south korean numbers get significant. south korea would bear the brunt of retaliation so america does not have complete freedom of action there. and the third option is diplomacy. i think there are ways we could structure it that wouldn't solve the problem, but it would cap it. i think that's an option. >> you just saw the president and melania trump laying a wreath. this is at the warsaw uprising memorial in warsaw, poland. at the time they are right now, of course, commemorating that moment, but there will be comments not just by the president himself but melania trump will introduce the president which should be interesting. again, you're watching the president and the first lady at a commemorative services remembering the warsaw uprising, 1944. estimated about 16,000 members
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of the polish resistance were killed and about 6,000 wounded during the uprising. now here is melania trump introducing her husband. >> hello, poland. thank you very much. my husband and i have enjoyed visiting your beautiful country. i want to thank president and mrs. duda for their warm welcome. and their generous hospitality. i had opportunity to visit a center that i found informative and thoughtful in it mission to inspire people to observe and experiment, ask questions, and seek answers. i can think of no better purpose
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for such a wonderful science center. thank you to all who were involved in giving us the tour, especially the children who made it such a wonderful experience. as many of you know, a main focus of my husband's presidency is safety and security of the american people. i think as all of us can agree, people should be able to live their lives without fear no matter what country they live in. that is my wish for all of us around the world. thank you again for this wonderful welcome to your very special country. your kindness and gracious hospitality will not be
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forgotten. and now it is my honor to introduce to you my husband, the president of the united states, donald j. trump. >> thank you very much. it's so nice. the united states has many great diplomats, but there is truly no better ambassador for our country than our beautiful first lady, melania. thank you melania. that was very nice.
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we've come to your nation to deliver a very important message. america loves poland, and america loves the polish people. thank you. the polish americans have also greatly enriched the united states, and i was truly proud to have their support in the 2016 election. it is a profound honor to stand in this city by this monument to the warsaw uprising, and to address the polish nation that so many generations have dreamed of, a poland that is safe, strong, and free.
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president duda and your wonderful first lady have welcomed us with the tremendous warmth and kindness for which poland is known around the world. thank you. i'm sincerely, and i mean sincerely thank both of them, and to the prime minister, a very special thanks also. we are pleased that the former president so famous for leaving the solidarity movement has joined us today also. thank you. on behalf of all americans, let
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me also thank the entire polish people for the generosity you have shown in welcoming our soldiers to your country. these soldiers are not only brave defenders of freedom, but also symbols of america's commitment to your security and your place in a strong and democratic europe. we are proudly joined on stage by american, polish, british, and romaine y and romanian soldiers. thank you. great job. president duda and i have come back from a meeting from the leaders participating in the 3
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cs. america to eager to expand our partnership with you. we welcome stronger ties of trade in commerce as you grow your economies, and we are committed to securing your access to alternate sources of energy. so poland and its neighbors are never again held hostage to a single supplier of energy. mr. president, i congratulate you along with the president of croatia on your leadership of this historic 3 cs initiative. thank you. this is my first visit to central europe as president, and i am thrilled that it could be right here at this magnificent,
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beautiful piece of land. it is beautiful. poland is the geographic heart of europe, but more importantly, in the polish people, we see the soul of europe. your nation is great because your spirit is great, and your spirit is strong. for two centuries poland suffered constant and brutal attacks. but while poland could be invaded, and occupied, and its borders even erased from the map, it could never be erased from history or from your hearts. in those dark days, you have lost your land, but you never lost your pride.
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so it is with this true admiration that i can say today that from the farms and villages of your country side to the cathedrals and squares of your great cities, poland lives, poland prospers and poland prevails. despite every effort to transform you, oppress you, or destroy you, you endured and overcame. you are the proud nation of copernicus. think of that. chopin, st. paul john ii, poland is a land of great heros.
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and you are a people who know the true value of what you defend. the triumph of the polish spirit over centuries of hardship gives us all hope for a future in which good conquers evil and peace achieves victory over war. for americans, poland has been a cymb symbol of hope since the beginning of our nation. polish heros and american patriots fought side by side in our war of independence, and in many wars that followed. our soldiers still serve together today in afghanistan and iraq combatting. for america's part we have never given up on freedom and
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independence as the right of the polish people, and we never, ever will. our two countries share a special bond forged by unique histories and national characters. it's a floip that exists only among people who have fought and bled and died for freedom. the signs of this friendship stand in our nation's capital just steps from the white house we've raised statues of men with names like polasky and kosiasko. the same is true in warsaw where street signs carry the name of george washington and a monument stands to one of the world's
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greatest heros, ronald reagan. and so i am here today not just to visit an old ally, but to hold it up as an example for others who seek freedom and who wish to summon the courage and the will to defend our civilization. the story of poland is the story of a people who have never lost hope, who have never been broken, and who have never, ever forgotten who they are. [ crowd chanting ]
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>> thank you so much. thank you. thank you so much. such a great honor. this is a nation more than 1,000 years old. your borders were erased for more than a century, and only restored just one serchg centur. in 1920 in the miracle, poland stopped the soviet army bent on european conquest. then 19 years later in 1939 you were invaded yet again. this time by nazi germany from the west and the society union from the east. that's trouble. that's tough.
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under a double occupation, the polish people endured evils beyond description. a fore massacre, the occupations, the holocaust, the warsaw ghetto and the warsaw ghetto uprising. the destruction of this beautiful capital city, and the deaths of nearly one in five polish people. a vibrant jewish population, the largest in europe, was reduced to almost nothing after the nazis systematically murdered millions of polish jewish citizen along the countless others during that brutal occupation. in the summer of 1944 the nazi and soviet armies were preparing for a terrible and bloody battle right here in warsaw. amid that hell on earth the citizens of poland rose up to
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defend their homeland. i am deeply honored to be joined on stage today by veterans and heros of the warsaw uprising. [ applause ] [ crowd chanting ] >> what great spirit. we salute your noble sacrifice, and we pledge to always remember your fight for poland and for freedom. thank you. thank you. this monument reminds us that more than 150,000 polish people
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died during that desperate struggle to overthrow oppression. from the other side of the river, the soviet armed forces stopped and waited. they watched as the nazis ruthlessly destroyed the city, viciously murdering men, women, and children. they tried to destroy this nation forever by shattering it will to survive, but there's a courage and a strength deep in the polish character that no one could destroy. the polish monoer, the bishop said it well. more horrifying than the defeat of arms is the collapse of the human spirit. through four decades of communist rule, poland and the other captive nations of europe endured a campaign to demolish freedom. your faith, laws, history,
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identity, indeed, the very essence of your culture and your humanity. yet, through it all, you never lost that spirit. your oppressors tried to break you, but poland could not be broken. and when the day came on june 2nd, 1979, and one million polish people gathered around victory square for their first mass with their polish pope, that day every communist in warsaw must have known that their oppressive system would soon come crashing down. they must have known it at the exact moment during pope john
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paul ii's sermon when a million polish men, women, and children raised their voices in a single prayer. a million polish people did not ask for wealth. they did not ask for privilege. instead, one million polish people saying three simple words. we want god. in those words the polish people recalled the promise of a better future. they found new courage to face down their oppressors, and they found the words to declare that poland would be poland once again. as i stand here today before this incredible crowd, this faithful nation, we can still hear those voices that echo
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through history. their message is as true today as ever. the people of poland, the people of america, and the people of europe still cry out we want god. together with pope john paul ii, the polish people reasserted their identity as a nation devoted to god, and with that powerful declaration of who you are, you came to understand what to do and how to live. you stood in solidarity against oppression, against a lawless secret police, against a cruel and wicked system that impoverished your cities and souls, and you won. poland prevailed. poland will always prevail.
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[ crowd chanting ] >> thank you. you were supported in that victory over communist by a strong alliance of free nations in the west that defied tyranny. now among the most committed members of the nato alliance, poland has resumed it place as a leading nation of a europe that is strong, whole, and free. a strong poland is a blessing to the nations of europe, and they know that. a strong europe is a blessing to the west, and to the world.
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100 years after the entry of american forces into world war i, the transatlantic bond between the united states and europe is as strong as ever, and maybe in many ways, even stronger. this continent no longer confronts the specter of communi communism, but today we're in the west, and we have to say there are dire threats to our security and to our way of life. you see what's happening out there. they are threats. we will confront them. we will win. but they are threats.
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>> we are confronted by another oppressive ideology. one that seeks to export terrorism and extremism all around the globe. america and europe have suffered one terror attack after another. we're going to get it to stop. during a historic gavthering in saudi arabia i called on the leaders of more than 50 muslim nations to come together to drive out the menace which threatens all of humanity. we must stand united against shared enemies to strip them of their territory and funding and networks and any form of
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ideological support that they may have. while we will always welcome new citizen who share our value and love our people, our border will always be closed to terrorism and extremism of any kind. >> we are fighting hard against radical islamic terrorism, and we will prevail. we cannot accept those who reject our values and who use hatred to justify violence against the innocent. today the west is also
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confronted by the powers that seek to test our will, undermine our confidence, and challenge our interests to meet new forms of aggression including propaganda, financial crimes, and cyber war fair. we must adapt our alliance to compete effectively in new ways and on all new battle fields. we urge russia to cease its destabilizing activities in ukraine and elsewhere, and to support for hostile regimes including syria and iran. and to instead join the community of responsible nations in our fight against common enemies and in defense of civilization itself. finally, on both sides of the atlantic, our citizens are confronted by yet another danger.
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one firmly within our control. this danger is invisible to some, but for millions the steady creep of government bureaucracy that drains the vitality and wealth of the people. the west became great not because of paper work and regulations but because people were allowed to chase their dreams and pursue their destinies. americans, poles and nations of europe enjoy individual freedom and sovereignty. we must work together to confront forces where are they come from inside or out from the south or the east, that threaten over time to undermine these values and to erase the bonds of culture, faith, and tradition that make us who we are. if left unchecked, these forces
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are undermine our courage, sap our spirit, and weaken our will to defend ourselves and our societies. but just as our adversaries and enemies of the past learned here in poland, we know that these forces, too, are doomed to fail if we want them to fail, and we do, indeed, want them to fail. they are doomed not only because our alliance is strong. our countries are resilient, and our power is unmatched. through all of this, you have to say everything is true. our adversaries, however, are doomed because we will never forget who we are, and if we don't forget who we are, we just can't be beaten. americans will never forget.
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the nations of europe will never forget. we are the fastest and the greatest community. there is nothing like our community of nations. world has never known anything like our community of nations. we write symphonies. we pursue innovation. we celebrate our ancient heros, embrace timeless traditions and customs and always seek to discover brand new frontiers. we reward brilliance. we strive for excellence and charrish inspiring works of art that honor guard. we treasure the rule of law and protect the right to free speech and free expression. we empower women as pillars of our society and of our success.
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we put faith and family, not government and bureaucracy at the center of our lives, and we debate everything. we challenge everything. we seek to know everything, so that we can better know ourselves. and above all, we valley the dignity of every human life, protect the rights of every person, and share the hope of every soul to live in freedom. that is who we are. those are the priceless ties that bind us together as nations, as allies, and as a civilization. what we have, what we inherited from our -- and you know this better than anybody and see it today with this incredible group of people. what we've inherited from our ancestors has never existed to this extent before. and if we fail to preserve it,
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it will never, ever exist again. so we cannot fail. this great community of nations has nothing else in common. in every one of them, it is the people, not the powerful, who have always formed the foundation of freedom. and the corner stone of our defense. the people have been that foundation here in poland as they were right here in warsaw, and they were the foundation from the very, very beginning in america. our citizens did not win freedom together. did not survive horrors together. did not face down evil together only to lose our freedom to a lack of pride and confidence in our values. we did not, and we will not. we will never back down.
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as long as we know our history, we will know how to build our future. americans know that a strong alliance, a free sovereign and independent nations is the best defense for our freedoms and for our interests. that is why my administration has demanded that all members of nato finally meet their full and fair financial obligations. as a result of this insistence, billions of dollars more have begun to pour in to nato. in fact, people are shocked.
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but billions and billions of dollars coming in from country that, in my opinion, would not have been paying so quickly. to those who would criticize our tough stance, i would point out that the united states has demonstrated not merely with words but with it actions that we stand firmly behind article 5, the mutual defense commitment. words are easy, but actions are what matters. and for it own protection, you're -- and you know this. everybody knows this. everybody has to know this. europe must do more. europe must demonstrate that it believes in its future by investing its membership to secure that feature. that's why we applaud poland for its decision to move forward this week on asquacquiring the
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battle tested patriot air and missile defense system, the best anywhere in the world. that is also why we salute the polish people for being one of the nato countries that has actually achieved the bench mark for investment in our common defense. thank you, thank you poland. i must tell you the example you set is truly magnificent, and we applaud poland. thank you. we have to remember that our defense is not just a commitment of money. it is a commitment of will, because as the polish experience reminds us, the defense of the west ultimately rests not only on means but also on the will of it people to prevail and be successful and get what you have to have. the fundamental question of our
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time is whether the west has the will to survive. do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders? do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it? we can have the largest economies and the most lethal weapons anywhere on earth, but if we do not have strong families and strong values, then we will be weak, and we will not survive. if anyone forgets the critical importance of these things, let them come to one country that never has. let them come to poland.
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and let them come here to warsaw and learn the story of the warsaw uprising. when they do, they should learn about learn about jerusalem avenue. in august of 1944, jerusalem avenue was one of the main roads running east and west through this city just as it is today. control of that road was crucially important to both sides in the battle for warsaw. the german military wanted it as their most direct route to move troops and to form a very strong front. and for the polish home army, the ability to pass north and south across that street was critical to keep the center of the city and the uprising, itself, from being split apart and destroyed. every night the pols put up
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sandbags amid machine gunfire and it was horrendous fire, to protect a narrow passage across jerusalem avenue. every day the enemy forces knock them down again and again and again, then the pols dug a trench, finally they built a bir cade and the brave polish fighters began to flow across jerusalem avenue. >> that narrow passageway just a few feet kwied i wide was the fragile link that kept the uprising alov. a constant stream of freedom fighters made their perilous just perilous. they ran across that street. they ran through that street. they ran under that street. all to defend the city, the far side was several yards away
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recalled one young polish woman named getta. >> that mortality and that life was so important to her. in fact, she said the mortally dangerous sector of the street was soaked if blood, it was the blood of mess enjers -- messengers, nazi snipers shot, anybody that crossed were shot at. their soldiers burned every building on the streets. they used the pols as human shields for their tanks in their effort to capture jerusalem avenue. the enemy never ceased the relentless assault on that small civilization. the pols never ceased its defense t. jerusalem avenue passage required constant protection, repair and reenforcement.
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but the will of its defenders did not waiver even in the face of death and to the last days of the uprising, the fragile crossing never, ever failed. it was never, ever forgotten. it was kept opened by the polish people. the memories of those who perished in the warsaw uprising cry out across the decade and fewer clearer than the memories of those who died to build and defend the jerusalem avenue crossing. those heroes remind us that the west was saved with the blood of patriots. >> that each generation must rise up and play their part in its defense. and that every foot of ground and every last inch of civilization is worth defending
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with your life. our own fight for the west does not begin on the battlefield, it begins with our minds, our wills and our souls. today the ties that unite our civilization are no less vital and demand no less defense than that bear shred of land on which the hope of poland once totally rested. our fremont e freedom, our civilization and our survival depend on these bonds of history, culture and memory and today as ever poland is in our heart and its people are in that fight. just as poland could not be broken, i declare today for the world to hear that the west will never, ever, be broken. our values will prevail.
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our people will thrive. and our civilization will trium triumph. >> thank you. so towing, let us all fight like the pols for family, for freedom, for country and for god. thank you, god bless you, god bless the polish people, good bless our allies and god bless the united states of america. thank you, god bless you. thank you very much. >> you have been listening to president trump giving his major speech at the warsaw uprising
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monument in par saw, poland. how many minutes? 37 minutes, 36-and-a-half minutes. joe, a lot of a review of poland's history for the first part of the speech, but got so some questions in terms of goals near the end there. >> you know the first half of the speech was packed with platitudes and drive and obvious talking points and was an extremely disappointing speech for anyone hoping to get policy points out of it, i will say, towards the end, though, after he got past reminding poland that they were helpful, in reminding them they were once invaded by both the nazis and the soviets, he actually made news at the final part of this speech and said some very significant things. first of all, the first significant thing he said was the bonds between the united states and europe are as strong as ever and possibly even
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stronger than ever. he even made a passing negative reference to russia. he did say later in the speech and this is a big take away, consider whack he has not said in the past that the united states and the president of the united states stands firmly behind article 5, nato. something that steve ban none and others took out of the speech, a prior speech and also richard haase he announce thad the pols were purchasing a missile defense system, a missile defense system that russia has publicly declared to be a quote direct threat in the past, also a missile system that president obama backed away from to the consternation not only of poland but also many of our allies in central europe. so despite the slow start, despite the platitudes, there
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actually is a good bit of news and i would say positive news for our european allies that were packed in the final ten minutes of this speech. >> right, it was a tedious speech, serious editing. a clear affirmation of nato's article 5 is significant t. fact that the russians were singled out in a sentence for criticism of their destable zaition in eastern ukraine. that was a significant defense of missile systems important. what was missing, obviously, joe, though, was any reference to russian interference in american and western elections. surprisingly to me, no mention of north korea. i did, however, call on russia to back off its support of syria and iran, none of which russia will ever do. >> david ignacious, for those of us looking for hints on the side line of the g20 summit may go between president trump and vlad
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vlad. we got one line, we urge russia to stop destabilizing activities in ukraine and elsewhere. what's the significance of that ahead of that meet something. >> i think that's just a little warning, willie, that the u.s. is going to seek to negotiate fulfillment of agreement that make syria and ukraine more stable. i thought the most interesting thing at the end of the speech was the strong affirmation of traditional alliances. you referred several times to the community of nations in europe and the values that they share. he even talked about freedom of speech and freedom of expression. not his favorite theme in recent weeks in the u.s. but i thought in terms of re-affirming the traditional role and language of u.s. leadership, there was more at the end of the speech tan i've seen in his previous trips abroad i think for people who are looking for some reassurance
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that the u.s. wants to play that leadership role, there is a little meat on the bones in that speech. >> there is and we are obviously focusing on donald trump's meeting with vladimir putin tomorrow, equally important at least in my mind is his meeting with angela america em and em getting the relationship with what is the united states most important allie at this point in europe, markal person, angela america em-- -- owe mark halperin, hang la murkel has enough to be heartened by, let's say relieved considering his past performance, we can talk about article 5, the missile shield that obviously vladimir putin is going to see in an antagonistic way. something again that was in the works. but still something he announced on stage in poland and underlining what david said,
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again, despite how tedious the speech was through most of it. the end, at least, if not in style in content could have been ronald reagan in 1984 talking about upholding western civilization and again, quite remarkably talking about the freedom of the press and the very things that he has been criticized the very values he has been criticized for trampling at home, he actually champions in poland and let us hope it sends a positive message to our allies because we are now hearing it from the president of the united states and not james mattis. >> there are all these specific things, trade, russia and nato, if you want to be optimistic is a thing of value. donald trump was a democrat and a nancy pelosi supporter and becomes the republican nominee who has no history on the world
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stage. i think a lot of people at home and abroad have questions, what his values, what does he believe in? why does he want to be president on the global stage? this speech could have been reagan, obama or clinton in expressing the values a lot of american allies would like to see, under gird, whatever policies he's pursued. >> we have been hearing mika the united states stands with their allies, stands firmly behind article 5. the united states stands for the values, we have been hearing it from james mattis. we have been hearing it from rex tillerson. we have been hearing from general mcmaster. we have been hearing it from everybody but the president of the united states and again for american audiences, it may not mean much that this speech was in poland but poland has been seen by russia as a thorn in its tame for sometime.
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there can be only significance read into this of course it can change in the next 15 minutes. >> put it, for donald trump, maybe this can be seen as a sign of hope. this was a scripted speech, steve kornacki, but the hope that you could have at this point is that he gets good feedback for it and continues to stick to this trip. we haven't seen that in the past t. worry is when he gets off script what happens, but certainly during this speech there were some lines drawn that seems substantive. >> i think that's right. i think in the content this is different speech we seen and herd him deliver before. there are two ways to interpret. the other with donald trump, you have to consider here, who is the audience, how did he begin this speech? it was notable by citing the political speech from polish americans saying how honored he was by that you think the
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message from murkel, he wanted to go there around deliver a defiant message to her. maybe he felt the polish government having been behind the scenes has been kind to him murkel and other governments have been, this might be the donald trump saying some things he wanted to le cipro indicate with kindness. we'll see. if he delivers the message in a different context. i think that's the key. >> one of the more troubling things, really in his last trip to europe, when the article 5 language was written in, he stripped out at the last minute. he ignored james mattis and the secretary of state. he ignored his national security adviser and stripped it out. i think it's quite significant. most of these speeches are obviously written out, are drafted by the staff and it doesn't appear anything significant was stripped out. i will, you know, i will take a prepared speech like this that
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underlines the importance of article 5 that talks about a missile defense system that russia despises, that it loathe, that it's always loathed since first proposed by george w. bush. i will take that over some random tweets any day of the week. >> the national security team was clear and vocal about having their language stripped out of that speech at nato last month. they didn't like it. obviously, they said it's a tradition to confirm article 5. the white house said the very presence at nato affirmed our support of article 5. it was clear, you have to say it standing out loud. he said we stand firmly behind article 5, that mutual defense pack. let's go back to warsaw, peter alexander is there covering the president in his speech. first of all, what was the vibe there? we we heard chants of support, cheering during the speech.
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what was it like to be from? >> reporter: i think the bottom lean is we knew there was going to be a loud crowd in support of donald trump. we got the headlines in recent days saying parliamentary people said they bussed in constituents for the more rural part of this country who sort of share that populist, that nationalistic view of the government here, also of doctor donald trump. i think what was striking to us is how many people gathered for this, let's be clear for an american president is a surprise, we get a strong reception here. for the criticism the president receives about abdicateing his role as the leader of the free world, of the west, he may get a real time reaction from angela merkel, the two meet this afternoon. i think the message of isis immigration straight seem to be directed to his base of supporters in the united states when he said what may be
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described as the trump doctrine the fundamental question over time is whether the west has the will to survive. he delivered a clear message in advance of this conversation with vladimir putin tomorrow. this is what he said specifically about russia. take a listen. >> reporter: today the west is also confronted by the powers that seek to test our will, undermine our confidence and challenge our interests, to meet new forms of aggression including propaganda, financial crimes and cyber warfare, we must adapt our alliance to compete effectively in new ways and on all new battlefields. we urge russia to cease its destabilizing activities in you vain and elsewhere and it's support for hostile regimes including syria and iran and to instead join the community of responsible nations in our fight
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against common enemies and a defense of civilization, itself. >> of course, no mention of defense of america's sovereignty, white house officials haven't said whether president trump tomorrow during his conversations with vladimir putin will talk about the election, he declined to solely place the blame for that on russia. >> we will see what he says tomorrow, peter alexander in warsaw. thank you. >> joining us now the host of msnbc deadline director and professor of george w. bush nicole wallace. national security counter terrorism analyst and former director of the national counter terrorism center mike at leiter joins us as well. >> thank you. >> nicole, your thoughts on the president's speech in poland. >> well, i think i we heard from probably the same kind of folks as the speech was happening is the desire and the affirmation
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of our support for article 5 and for donald trump tough words for russia t. truth is they started with the president of the united states the leader of the free world and poland attacking nbc and cnn, name checking two news networks. so the professionals who had to sacrifice their first born to get that affirmation for article 5 in the speech to get the toughening line on russia in the speech have to compete with the president's instinct, his primal instincts to constantly war with the american media. >> and the intelligence media. >> and you have to always acknowledge the bar is so low, it's buried beneath the ground. >> so, michael, let's look at obviously we were highly critical of what the president said this morning. and the first 20 minutes of one of the worst presidential speeches i've ever we heard on foreign soil, but, he finished strong. like sugar ray leonard with four rounds at the end. he finished strong, because in
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the last few minutes of what i thought was going to be one of the worst speeches ever, our allies in europe got a lot. reaffirmation of article 5. talking about a missile defense shield that, of course, vladimir putin and the russian versus called a direct threat. they despise it. they loathe it. it's hard for americans to understand how much they do. also, speaking out against the propaganda the financial crimes the destabilization of allies by russia and the support of our enemie enemies, it seems as if general mcmaster and general mattis may have actually got in their way. >> i think they won this round and the rhetoric may not have been soaring, but the really fact-based messages at the end were critical. >> right. >> let's face it. when we -- >> especially for angela merkel and others looking at it. they say what do you stand for?
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>> this is baby steps. we went so far back. it's going to take a while. i hope what the president -- i know the team thinks. i hope the president realizes this, these are our friends, these are our western allies. these are governments who have our same value who understand the threat of russia. when we are faced with russian aggression, north korean instability. we have syria, don't make enemies of our friends, take the easy wins and speaking to poland reenforcing nato and the alignment in western europe, this is an easy wings, i'm happy he made the layout. >> david ignacious, your take. >> well, i'm happy you made the layup, too. we are talking earlier in the show about the concern that he would express this america first theme of his presidency in a way that excluded our allies and go it alone theme. at the end of this speech in warsaw, you we heard the
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president saying, american security is based on the network of relationships, the community of nations, a strong europe is good for the world, language that's very traditional, that's really at the center of what american power has been for the last 40 years. i we heard this president repeating. it's a particularly good time to do it. because there are real potential military threats coming out of north korea. i thought that language got america back to the kind of traditional role, working its power through its friends and allies. i thought that was an important step for trump. >> the question is, why now? obviously, he had the press conference, yes, this was a prepared speech he was reading from. as we said been, he has given a popular speech before, where he stripped the article 5 language out at the end, not engaging in criminology, i say this it's
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important to say this, it's the reality in the white house, there are some rounds that steve ban none win and there are some rounds that the responsible leaders that have fought for and bled for and defended this country for most of their adifficult life, sometimes they win those round and it appears that general mattis and general mcmaster won this round. why now do you think? >> well, i think two reasons, one, they made abundantly clear they had cleanup to do after the botched nato stop. two, there are meetings around the clock. you know as well as i do, deeming with the deadly terrifying threat of north korea. i think they said, don't mess this part up. these are layups. i guess my head, we're celebrating the fact that he affirmed -- >> no, no, no, we're not celebrating. >> i'm not saying us, i'm saying the world is at a point where it's relieved, where we exhail, he didn't mess up any more of our oldest alliances. >> that can actually as we said that can change in five minutes
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with a tweet. >> right. >> much better that he did say that today than what he did last time. >> yes, much better. but there's also ongoing reports that he's constantly teased angela merkel is going to poke him in the eye sarah palin said with climate change. theyco exist with this irritation they don't fall in line like a country like poland who loves over owe let's face it, he likes this because they like him, let's not make this. they love every american president. they loved president obama. hay adored president -- >> we have a few polls that show pols love america. only 57% of polands do not trust him. there it is, so the love they have for this country. >> is limited. >> let's ask this question. richard haase and david ignacious and michael, there's a
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new reality for world leaders, for angela merkel and for vladimir putin to sort through what donald trump is saying. and as nicole said, here we are saying, hey, it's a great thing he did what every president since harry truman did finally. how do they sort through there? i know, we'll get to you the second day, i know you have been going around the world talking to these leaders. you do as well, how do they sort through a brutish press conference this morning with a traditional speech that george w. bush or bill clinton or ronald reagan could have given. >> it will prolong the inability of the rest of the world to get a clear fix on the 45th president of the united states. they spent inordinate hours trying to figure out where it is and where he is going. the fact is natural stuff this morning at the press conference was much more if you will the real donald trump the speech was a more disciplined donald trump,
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they won't know how much credence to put in the speech. they will be welcome as you say, they don't know how long it will last. i think the bottom line is they see a larger trend. this is a president seen as anti-substitution institutional. i think they see opportunities. in asia, so i think the larger at stake is this is not an america that is prepared to lead in the same way america always had. this confers on them some opportunities. >> i think each will pursue it in their own way and for america merck merkel will tighten that tie with mattis, tillerson and push for a reenforced nato and the like. for putin, he will continue to manipulate as best he can to take this opportunity to break that down. i think the most interesting play will be how china reacts to the president and how the
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president learns to work with china. because the current approach of the random tweets here and there, changing every month will not move china in the direction we need it to move on north korea. that's the one which is the most immature relationship and potentially the most fractious. >> michael, in the speech with the european partners are a layup. he said this morning. >> steph curry. >> the president of the united states said in a joint press conference with the polish president that we have severe things on the table that we were considering doing with north korea. what does that mean exactly? when you look at the options, whether it's a surgical strike or diplomacy or sanctions, there is no easy way at this. >> this was an impossible problem 20 years ago when they first moved down this path. it's not a 3-pointer. this is half court or full court. the military options is astroeshsly bad, it would lead
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to hundreds of thousands dead. including americans. we got 130 americans in and around seoul, japan is also vulnerable to the missiles. i think in that sense, military has to be pushed off t. push i think the president made the right choice when he came in of trying to press china, but that is going to be a very hard path. china has different incentives here. so i think it's going to be a combination of recognizing north korea is committed to developing nuclear weapons. they have them. the question is, how can we reduce that threat or reduce that and try to at least pressure them to act rational. >> david ignacious, there are severe plans, i'm not sure that was in the script. we have to check. having said that, your response to his comments on that note. >> well, what struck me most about this speech, mika, a month ago i was in russia hearing kremlin advisers say, the
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liberal international order that the united states has championed, that is the source of american power is dying. it's falling apart t. russians said that with great emphasis. and you we heard today an american president who has been skeptical about aspects of that affirm it and talk about the community of nations, talk about our shared common destiny. it was all a pushback to the russian, the world is going our way again. and i think merkel and leaders across europe will be very happy with that language. they want to know, how does that translate in reality? is this one speech or does this really reflect a donald trump who understands the nature of america's power is that it flows to allies, friends, military commitments. and that, you know, we'll see that over the next couple days. we'll see a particular test of it in dealing with north korea. can he lead with our allies,
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defense and potentialed adversari adversaries, china, russia that ramp ets up the pressure but doesn't take us to war. that's the next big thing we're all going to be watching. >> nicole the question is, again, it's a fascinating point, can he dlefr this soeliver this speech in a country where he has a bad relationship, because of the past. for instance, could he deliver the same speech in front of angela merkel or is this just personal? is it the polish people love american president so he can deliver the soar something. >> listen, it's a perfect point -- >> i'm sorry, i have to correct myself. there was nothing soaring, about that, so he delivered turgent talking points that actually may help some of our allies sleep a little bit better at night. >> i totally agree. i think it's about overwriting
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the circuitry. i think the speech was on the part of tillerson the national security staff of overriding his circuit try. his circuitry was laid bare in the news psych them morning. they will try every day for as many hours as they're awake, which is twoebl 22, 24 hours a day. they will try every lour of their waking lives while they're serving this government with the president to override his circuitry. it's laid bare on twitter all day every day t. circuitry is that he doesn't understand our lives as he thinks our participation in na that is on exercise in charity that we different them money, that it's like a foundation. >> can i suggest he and steve ban none think that the people elected him think that nato is a luxury we can no longer afford. >> i don't think it's that complicated. >> i think he's fairly cynical,
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donald trump, in trying to figure out how to get certain segment of the buzzer with don't want it in nato. who don't like nato, who distrust nato. >> i don't think that nanny one is against america having -- we're the only ones that have cashed in on article 5. we went to war in afghanistan. we brought other countries to war with us. so i don't think that the voters, you know, don't like that. i think voters like that they don't want to go it alone no matter the political affiliation, democrats or republicans, particularly military families don't want to go it alone. i think it's about the professionals the mattis' the staff, overriding his circuitry and all of his impulses and wiring is what we think on twitter. >> what do you think he thinks those individuals care from saying it just can't happen? you can't tweet, you can't talk unless you read what we say? at what point does it get to
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that? >> i think that's how they get a brms this morning. >> i get. that i saw the speech that was written. i saw that. then an hour before, he's ripping on the intelligence community, on the media and on other things to the point where it's -- >> well, richard haase, you've worked for presidents before. why doesn't someone working for a president just kick down the door and say enough is enough? >> well, i actually think several of the leading leiutenants around the president should do that about policy alike. they should say for us to justify this, so that the benefits are influenced outweighs the costs of association, here's our terms, here's our terms in terms of process, here's in it in terms of policy. if you sign up, great, otherwise. >> what are you doing? >> otherwise you are enabling something you don't believe in and the sacrifices to cost and reputation and life far overwhelm any good you can have
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and you can prevent. >> it is an ongoing war of attrition. i know we have to go to a break. this is is up an important point. i remember bob gates, michael, early on, saying, in effect, i get to vote for this guy, but if you feel like you can work for this guy, then you into ed to do everything you can to influence this guy for the good of the country. i will say, if it's a war of attrition every day, i will just say it, against steve bannon and steve bannon's close-minded 36% solution that has kept donald trump in the 30s and yet if you are general mattis, and you have had to go into fallujah and clean it up, after the hell that was fallujah, dealing with bureaucratic battles with talks in the west wing and i will say it with little punks in the west wing that want to throw away american values and alliances
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that we've had since 1947, that's not that tough. general mattis can handle that. general mcmaster can handle that. they've seen mump worse. they are today, today they won the battle. but it is a war of attrition. >> i agree they can deal with the nsc punks, but they can't -- >> i wasn't calling the nsc punks, i was talking about steve bannon. go ahead. >> you are right, leiutenant,ly do it that way, wake up the next morning and see something and does it anyway. >> and by the way, from everything that we have seen, just look at the facts. don't put any feelings on the table. who here, what are the chances, that he's not going to tweet or say something in the next 24 hours that kind of undermines all this? >> we all know. we all know, we all know it's going to happen again. i remember after the speech that he gave the joint session, we
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the next morning said, good job, he may tweet something. you know, in a day or two that can destroy everything. guess what, that weekend, he tweeted about barack obama. i remember we were all on the set talking about how they handled syria in a measured way, said good for now, let's hope he continues that way. that's why david ignacious final thoughts for this. >> alex screams in my ear because this continues, but this is the war of attrition that i'm talking about, do you -- and i guess as americans, we have to ask ourselves, do we want general mcmaster in there? or do we want donald trump to have a chance to like another michael flynn. >> just on the attrition, as president trump was about to begin that speech in warsaw, i got a note from someone in the white house who, let's just say, is not one of the bannonites saying you got to really pay
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attention to this, the president in this speech is going to affirm traditional alliances and values and as we have been discussing, that's exactly what happened. but it was interesting that somebody in the middle of this war of attrition in the trump white house wanted to say, pay attention to this, this is one we won. >> the war of attrition was on full display today. you had a scripted speech that stayed largely between the lines in warsaw and even in the prepared remarks with the president of poland, but when he is asked a question, then there is no script. that's when you get the pure distilled donald trump who goes after cnn, attacks the intel agency, goes on an extended rift of president obama, or won't criticize pr acknowledgment knowledge russia's meddling in the election. what do you do about that? you can script him, you can brief him until are you blue in the face. when he is asked a question, he will do what he wants to do. >> it's a war of attrition and
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as nicole said, michael, i can't believe are you doing this, phil griffin, it's not alex's fault. that's what nicole said is the truth. they work every day to override the circuitry, to get him to not act on the media's instinct. >> you work the boss. you work people sitting here. and most importantly, you work and communicate to your counterparts, to your japanese counterparts, south korean, or british or german counterparts and say, don't worry, he said some things. this is what he means. this is the direction we are going. >> that is the diplomacy which is critical to keep these key alliances on track when you have a president that wakes up a little angry on twitter. >> was that a credibility, it's one of the reasons it's hard to be in this administration, whether everything you saw in the gutter recently.
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you seen it with allies, the president. you work for the president. he doesn't work for you. at the end of the day, allies and friends around the world focus much more on what this president does than what his secretary of state or defense or national security adviser said. i think nicole has a basic, bake poin basic point. it's not just steve bannon, when he looks at the last period of history the united states paid a lot more in the world. he thinks it's been a lousy investment. that's why he's against trade agreement and alliances stharks is h that is his basic take on the world. >> it's important for us in manhattan and for those in washington, d.c. to understand there are a lot of americans out there that feel the same way and felt the same way long before donald trump became president of the united states. they want to know why the united states has carried the world on its shoulders since 1947. they want to know why we have been competing against japan and
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germany economically. why they have been taking our jobs. this is what a lot of americans have said. and they still don't have to pay much for their defense spending. it is, it's not as if -- that's why i said it was cynic am. it's not as if they're just doing this out of thin air. there is an audience out there. there is always been an audience out there. and i think a lot of them were the very people, my comb, who voted for barack obama eight years ago, because they wanted better jobs, but who voted for donald trump in wisconsin, pennsylvania, ohio and michigan, this time saying, c'mon, how long are we going to spends $2 billion a month in yaafghanista. when will it start rebuild, pennsylvania schools? that's the mindset that bannon hasn't tapped into. >> it's all those impulses towards the "isms" it's what
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george bush weighed into the iraq war in afghanistan, it start of dragged on. it wasn't viewed by the public as particularly going well. it was his fear of isms taking hold, detroit, wisconsin and people sort of retreating into this cynicism. it's bob runson telling people what to be afraid of and what to blame. there is no sort of president in american presidential history on someone running on that and delivering on that he ran on ice lakesism. he is now with bannon guiding, leading the way, trying to deliver isolationism. it doesn't work when your entire national security team is trying to prevent an attack from north korea. >> not only does it not work on the world stage. it doesn't work at home. 80% of americans now support nato. a strong american presidents to nato. 36, 37% of americans support this president now. it is a short sided, day trading
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approach to american politics. >> it is. and i think the strategy that you put on the table that maybe his foreign policy team is trying to focus in and keep it, i think it's impossible where you have a president whose official statement consistently over the course of months are way outside the bounds of desency, commitment, duty, justice, i mean the list goes on. this is like nothing have you ever seen before and i think it's uncontrollable. i think there's going to have to be more done from the good people in there. if you are there. if you are hearing us. >> it's a war of attrition. >> nicole wallace, thank you very much. >> we will be watching deadline white house. >> popcorn, right? >> right here on nsnbc. >> likal leiter, davidic nacious, thank you all. ahead, we will bring in former u.s. investor to russia,
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the future isn't silver suits anit's right now.s, think about it. we can push buttons and make cars appear out of thin air. find love anywhere. he's cute. and buy things from, well, everywhere. how? because our phones have evolved. so isn't it time our networks did too? introducing america's largest, most reliable 4g lte combined with the most wifi hotspots. it's a new kind of network. xfinity mobile. >> welcome back to "morning joe" professor of the institute of
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international studies at stanford, michael mccaul, mr. ambassador, let me start with you. let's think about tomorrow. let's look ahead from the speech in warsaw and that meeting on the side lines at the g20 summit between president trump and president putin. what can we reasonably expect out of that? what should the president of the united states do? >> well, those are two different things. >> true. >> from bring perspective what should happen is president trump should engage seriously about american national interests. he should talk about security and economic interests and his want, his desire to cooperate with russia. but only if russia commits to certain kind of conditions. what i expect is that president trump will meet putin, he's going to like putin. putin is a straight shooter, a
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straight talker. they were going to bonds over things like their common dislike of fake news and the deep state and putin is going to try to play to trump's ego to say, you and i need to work together against these enemies, especially throws in your country. so that we can do big things together. that's the thing i fear. >> so he said, mr. ambassador, in the speech this afternoon, in warsaw, he said we urge russia to stop destabilizeing activities in ukraine and elsewhere, also, urge him to stop supporting syria and iran the regimes in those two countries. no mention of interference or meddleing, you might not expect in a speech like that. do you think donald trump will raise russian interference in the 2016 presidential election with putin? >> again, what i think he should do and what he might do are two different things. >> do you think he will? >> absolutely. of course. of course, he needs to raise it. russia violated our sovereignty last year. they know they violated our
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sovereignty. putin know what is he did. and for trump not to raise it makes him look weak or ignorant. neither of those two things are i think in president trump's interests. i think the strategy should be i know what you did, if you do it again, there will be serious consequences. and if he doesn't say that i the putin thinks that he's weak, he's vulnerable, he feels illegitimate. >> that plays to putin's strengths. >> that is not good for america. >> mr. ambassador, you mentioned being played. what is the possibility that president trump will be played in this? we seen situations where he's responded very quickly to things that irk him? >> well, you know, i have been in several meetings with presidents and prime minister putin when he met with president obama and vice president biden. he does his homework. he does his substantive homework, right. he comes with an agenda. he also does his psychological home. he will raise thing ability
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people's backgrounds and things they've done 15 years ago. i seen that before. here he is trying to build a relationship with trump. he still believes at the end of the day he can pull trump towards his agenda and wants to do. that however, he can be prickly, you know bet were than i president trump can be prickly, i don't exclude over something minor they come out clashing in the meeting. >> ambassador, i wanted to get your thoughts on what we we heard a positive alliance from the president of the united states at least mentioning russia's involvement in ukraine, i saw on twitter a lot of people were attributing that to his meeting earlier this summer with the ukrainian president. this is a president who is sort of says things that the last person just told him so clearly poroshenko told him history regarding the conflict. do you expect president put on the give him his version of the
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history of the conflict and thus leave him with a different opinion on this situation on the ground there? >> absolutely. that's what president putin does. he has a very different interpretation. by the way, i thought it was good he had the sentence in there. i wish he would have used the word "annexation" and "invasion" as destabilizing ukraine. obviously, they fought over that line and decided to go with that safer line. putin will have a different interpretation of events. he will remind the president that crimea was a part of russia. he will tell them about nazis that took over in the ukraine and you know he'll try to say, these sanctions that were put in place be i that president obama, right, they can bond against their mutual, you know, dislike of president obama, these were illegitimate and they've given away, mr. president -- they get in the way of us doing business, after all, are you a businessman, i like to do business, let's move on to an
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american agenda and put behind this ukraine thing which after all didn't happen on your watchlist for the future. that the kind of arguments he will make on ukraine. how the president responds, of course, i don't know. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you very much. coming up. donald trump's long history of litigation, the magazine explores the president's legal battles in the past and president and why he may never have enough lawyers to get the job done. plus, president trump exhausts criticism over a tweet showing him wrestling a cnn logo. he thinks people are taking it too seriously. but media columnists, in "new york times," isn't so sure. she joins us ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. cancer challenges us.
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. all right, joining us now, staff writer of the "new york times" magazine jonathan
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mueller, who whose speech focuses on president trump's past legal battles. his growing team of lawyers and what it means for the future of his presidency. write in part trump's lawyers practice trump law. trump law is theater, trump law does not concern itself with how you are supposed to do things. taking trump law to the oval office produced new and unfamiliar variety of legal troubles. there may never be enough trump lawyers to get the work done. the work is hard, sometimes humiliating. one irreducible character of a trump lawyer is he or she is willing to take on trump as a client. one who doesn't solicit advice simply ignores it, subverts legal strategy on national television who requires them to deny facts that he has confirmed and confirm facts he has denied, who won't stop tweeting inflammatoriory false statements. it's a lot to ask of a
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professional. wow. >> he doesn't pay you. >> of course. >> you have to pay him. >> so this explains why there are so many veteran of lawyers who as you say have despised strong men and tortureers who refuse to defend donald trump. >> spies, torturers and embezzleers, okay. donald trump, not so much. >> why is that? >> well, i think you summarized it pretty well right there. i think that he is going to undercut the legal strategy, ask you to essentially public humiliate yourself. to confirm things. >> like the white house press secretary job? >> yes, it is actually 2i78 i simil similar. >> at least it's your job to spin. the lawyer's job is to analyze and to think strategically and to think logically and not to say things that are completely
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ill logical or that contradict. >> yeah. >> he's obviously, historically, not been such a great client. how has he been in this case so far as we know? >> so far not well. it's amazing though, he's a guy who has been involved in lawsuits from the very beginning of his career, thousands of lawsuits, he's incredible. and it's sort of worked for him in a sense over the years, he lost plenty of lawsuits, but for him it didn't matter as long as he can declare victory. you know, now he's in a very different situation. i mean, he's in a place where the law matters. where you can't lose and simply declaire victory and, you know, and to get away with it. >> amidst all the problem between trump and trump lawyers is his family, a family and friends and sort of how do you differentiate who guess final say? because there are certain
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favorites within this sort of weird web of people. >> and there is a difference between being a magnet even in new york city and the president of the united states in washington, d.c. so how much scrutiny foes washi, d.c. how much scrutiny goes into the family discussions about which lawyers come along with them? >> or who they can get. >> because we know there were reports of lawyers turning them down. >> who would want that job? >> it's interesting, too. there's obviously in washington there's a whole kind of industry of d.c. scandal lawyers. i mean, people who have a lot of experience in situations like this, maybe none quite exactly like this, but similar enough. and yet trump hasn't hired any of those lawyers. he has instead hired, you know, his sort of trusted marc kasowitz from new york, who is a product liability lawyer. i mean, he's not a white collar
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criminal lawyer. >> actually gave advice to trump's workers to not hire lawyers. >> exactly. he's already made a huge misstep for a lawyer. so, you know, and, you know, he has brought in a couple of lawyers from washington, but even they are not sort of traditional washington lawyers. and so it's a very unusual way to say the least to go about dealing with something like this. >> jonathan muller, thank you. we'll be reading you in "the new york times" magazine. we're joined by cnbc's brian sullivan. let's zero in on comments from the president during his speech in poland that may have been overlooked. take a listen. >> president duda and i have just come from an incredibly successful meeting with the leaders participating in the three cs initiative. and we are committed to securing your access to alternate sources of energy. so, poland and its neighbors are never again held hostage to a
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single supplier of energy. >> that appears to be a reference to russia's oil dominance in the region, brian? >> yeah, it is, mika. in fact, the next battleground in europe is probably not going to have anything to do with bombs but rather with energy. the reason that comment was such a big deal is that right now the u.s. and russia are engaged in kind of a quiet fight over natural gas dominance in europe. the first shipment of u.s. liquefied natural gas from louisiana to poland docked there on june 8th, just about one month ago. it's the first time ever. not a huge shipment but it's a political statement. here's why -- russia dominates europe's natural gas. natural gas used to run power plants as well as heat homes, incredibly important. russia supplies 35% of all europe's natural gas import. in fact, guys, more than ten countries get nearly all of their natural gas from russia. russia has used natural gas as a political lever over countries like the ukraine at least twice
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in the last decade, and you remember the fight here over keystone pipeline? well, i want to put two more words in your ears -- nord stream. that is the name of a pipeline scheduled to open up in 2019. it goes through the baltic into germany. if it is completed it would pretty much solidify that stranglehold that russia has over natural gas in europe. >> all right. cnbc's brian sullivan. thank you very much. >> thank you, brian. >> joining us now, media chis for "the new york times," tim ruettenberg. his latest column, the u.s.s preis under siege as freedom rings. we heard the president talking about freedom of speech during his scripted speech. >> in the speech, right after attacking the media in the press conference before the speech. >> you know, i saw that part of the speech and i said that's heartening, you know, and then i turned on the device, oh, god -- >> disheartening. >> the press --
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>> before. >> before. i mean, fake news, you know, cnn fake news in poland. >> so i guess what i don't understand is why he's doing this, because the -- he's helped "the new york times." he's helped "the washington post" tremendously. his attacks against us certainly did nothing but drive our ratings up. >> congratulations. >> and the thing is we didn't want it. we would have preferred to have, you know, lower ratings. but everybody he attacks seems to be doing better. >> it helps them. it solidifies the mission. you know, the readers say we want a free press. >> so why is he doing that? he's actually driving more readers to "the new york times" and "the washington post" and to this show by attacking. >> i have two theories. i wonder if one is concern about the base, just keeping his base loves it when he bashes us. and secondarily, maybe he just gets angry, right?
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>> i think that's it. i'm sorry. not to go back to what we, you know, experienced, but i could feel in real time this guy -- because we were having fun with the "time" cover, which is hilarious. it's funny. we've made fun of lots of people for funny things. >> right. >> and as part of, you know, being a president of the united states, honestly, you know, fun humor as well as analysis. >> right. >> and i could feel his blood boiling, because i know him. i'm sorry. and the guy reacts. he can be played. it's scary. >> and people close to him will tell you that he feels betrayed sometimes when he thinks people are his friends. look at his comments today, nbc, i've made them a lot of money be they forget that. >> that's whooo i'm talking about sort of childlike mind is what i'm worried about, that there is this sort of almost 8-year-old temperament, i have to punch right now, or that was
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wrong, i need to say something when it was completely unimportant to the grand scheme of things. i mean -- >> you're sayingitis not thought out. >> maybe it's a combination of everything. who knows? i mean, but the message it sends, that's why this morning to me is so important and not good. what happened is when you go overseas to a country where press freedom is under siege and you repeat a message that supports that president's own anti-press positions, this is not what i thought this country was about. press freedom is so fundamental. >> mark, what are the things the press is doing playing into his hands that we should do better to protect the public interest? >> it's great question. and we have to be careful. minimize mistakes honestly and take the emotion out. it's hard when reporters are getting attacked to take the emotion out. >> totally agree. >> it speaks to a global phenomenon too. there was this moment when putin was meeting with a chinese president and a an r.t. reporter
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introduced them and started talking about the russian word for fake news and talked about how she has a journalist was speaking about how journalists arnold the world are using the fourth estate wanting to turn it into the first and that journalism, bad journalism, fake journalism is the cause of so many wars and so many deaths around the world. so this isn't just a u.s. phenomenon we're seeing with our president right now. we're seeing this around the world. >> it feels sometimes less anti-mainstream media and more the practice of journalism as it's come to be practiced in the modern era. people want a journalism that will support their world view and that's it. >> do you look into the fact that there were media entities that family members wanted to buy? i mean, is there a grand scheme here? or is it more my fear that he just has a kind of childlike reaction to things? >> well, there's his reaction and then there's the people around him and their reaction, right, and we do know that had he not won the presidency, he
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was looking into a media play himself, right, the family was. steve bannon is from conservative media. so who knows? it's all a big stew. >> so what does the media do moving forward to obviously -- the media was blind-sided by donald trump's victory. most did fot see it coming. most still cannot understand how 35%, 36%, 37% of americans many still support donald trump, but they are out there and many of them are in my family and many of them are our friends. you know, a lot of us in the media go back to family reunions and find trump supporters around the table. we're still asking questions, how does the media connect with the rest of america? >> well, what we can't do, i fear we are doing, maybe too much of, is forgetting the lessons we said we were learning after we did miss that part of the election story. and so it's going back to what
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we were all saying, hopefully not all of us have to go back, we're doing it and getting it back in the country, talking to people, keeping our ears open and shelving our own emotions when we're being attacked. it's not part of the story trying to understand the country. >> we were surprised -- i wouldn't say surprised. i thought the republican was going to win, but georgia six was a clear victory for republicans and a clear defeat for democrats that a lot of people in the media didn't see coming. >> if that part of your mind-set is america must reject trump anytime trump is in any way validated it's hard for people to process. >> have to deemotionalize it. >> yeah. it's more complicated than most of the coverage suggests. >> it's a movement that would have been there even if he had not come along. >> correct. >> it will only be stronger in 2020 whether it's donald trump or somebody else. >> "the new york times," thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> tomorrow will be another big morning on --
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>> what was that? >> attacked. >> loving nugis. >> you gave him a nugie? is this 1979? >> all right. >> okay. we've got to go. >> anyhow, tomorrow is a big morning. we'll see president trump come face-to-face with vladimir putin as they arrive at the g-20 summit in hamburg, germany. it should be a fascinating morning. that does it for us for now. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> thank you. there has been a few things going on. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. a lot of news breaking overnight starting with that tough talk. president trump overseas, one day away from that meeting with vladimir putin with some of thiz strongest language yet. >> we urge russia to cease its destabilizing activities in ukraine and elsewhere. >> and yet he took yet another swipe at the intelligence agency's reports that russia meddled in the election. >> i heard it was 17


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