tv The 11th Hour With Brian Williams MSNBC July 8, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
you can find me on facebook. i post articles and soon i'll be posting updates there about my new nightly msnbc show which airs 6:00 p. mcht eastern. "the 11th hour" is next. face to face. president trump goes there with vladimir putin. over russia's meddling in the u.s. election. but tonight, two competing versions of what happened next. also what's it's like to go one-on-one with the former spy master. a former ambassador to russia gives putin the win. and it was the most closely watched meeting of his presidency. but this morning donald trump was focused on someone else. hillary clinton's campaign chairman john podesta. tonight podesta responds. "the 11th hour" begins now. good evening. i'm ali velshi from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. i'm in for brian williams tonight. day 169 of the trump administration saw the president
of the united states, a president who has spent most of the 169 days of his presidency so far under the specter of the russian role in the 2016 election sitting down with russian president vladimir putin. the meeting was scheduled 30 minutes and lasted more than two hours. in front of the cameras president trump sounded upbeat. >> we look forward to a lot of very positive things happening for russia, for the united states, and for everybody concerned. and it's an honor to be with you. thank you. thank you. >> for days, the headlines were all about the fact that the meeting was going to happen. now that it's over, the headlines are all about the conflicting accounts of what was said in the meeting. rex tillerson, the only u.s. cabinet official in the meeting, said that president trump pushed putin on russia's election hacks. while sergei lavrov, putin's foreign minister, told reporters a very different story. >> the president opened the meeting with president putin by
raising the concerns of the american people regarding russian interference in the 2016 election. they had a very robust and lengthy exchange on the subject. the president pressed president putin on more than one occasion regarding russian involvement. president putin denied such involvement. as i think he has in the past. i think what the two presidents -- i think rightly -- focused on is how do we move forward? how do we move forward from here? because it's not clear to me that we will ever come to some agreed upon resolution of that question between the two nations. >> translator: and president trump has said that he has heard clear declarations from mr. putin that russian leadership and russian government has not interfered in the elections and he accepts these -- the things that mr. putin has said.
president trump said that in the u.s. there is still some circles who are talking about russian alleged intrusion and russian alleged attempt to influence the u.s. elections. so president trump and president putin has discussed these issues. and all these issues will become matters for our cooperation and a special bilateral group will be created towards that. >> meanwhile, outside the official meetings in the streets of hamburg, germany the protests raged for a second day in a row and well into the night. and for a second day in a row, our keir simmons was in the thick of it. >> the police really wanted to move, really wanted to move these guys because an actual convoy, a g20 convoy was trying to get through the streets. the protestors built a barricade and refused to move. you saw -- we thought it was perhaps. whoa.
okay. the protestors just walking into the line of those police water cannon and throwing a barrage of bottles and stones at the police line. they gathered here. as you can see now -- i just got something thrown at me. as you can see now -- they have now moved in the german police finally after many hours and are trying to break up this -- this protest that frankly has turned in this area, into -- at times, into a riot. >> let's bring in tonight's panel. president obama's top russia expert and former u.s. ambassador to russia who is doing triple time here at nbc today. mike mcfaul. former moscow bureau chief for the "washington post" peter baker. and former senior writer for the counsel -- for the director of national intelligence. now adjunct law professor at
georgetown. kari there were six people in the meeting. president putin, president trump, sergey lavrov and rex tillerson and we still didn't get agreement on what was said in that meeting. this is atypical. there's no third party read-out. in fact, we don't know what trump said to putin and what putin said back to him about hacking the 2016 election. >> you know, we don't. and what's interesting about what rex tillerson said is that -- what he said is that the american people, that the president expressed what the american people were concerned about with respect to the russian interference in the election. he didn't say that the president expressed his concerns or his grave concerns about what happened with russian interference in the election. so i thought that was an interesting -- whether it was a choice or not in terms of how he phrased it. it was interesting, the other
thing that was highlighted was the fact that the credibility problem that this white house has of their own making really came into play today because nobody really knows whether to believe the readout that rex tillerson provided where he seemed to infer that the president was more direct with vladimir putin. or whether one should believe the statements of lavrov who indicated that the president was much more conciliatory and more accepting of the russian position. and unfortunately, it was lavrov's statements that tracked much more closely with what the president has said publicly and tweeted publicly in the past. >> mike mcfaul, the president delivered a speech and made comments about barack obama not confronting the issue of the russian hacking when he found out about it.
he said, as he said before, that he choked. but in fact, you have been around when president obama has dealt with putin, and in president obama's own words, he took him aside and he told him, this has to stop. >> he did, we know that he did. he said it to the american people and we know he did. what is so confusing about president trump's stance, he keeps saying, if the russians did it. maybe another country did it. he said it yesterday, not six months ago. and on the other hand he said why didn't the president do more about it? it can't be both, either he believes he did it and shouldn't have done more, or he should have responded to something. >> our own hallie jackson asked the president why he doesn't believe the conclusion that was arrived at by a number of key u.s. intelligence agencies, donald trump did another one of those things where he said, they told me there were 17 intelligence agencies. i didn't know there were 17
intelligence agencies. again trying to make the story about how many intelligence agencies agreed on what happened. as opposed to owning, taking responsibility for and delivering a message to vladimir putin that this has to stop. why the prevarication? >> well, that is the consistent question and the position he has taken since the beginning of december, back in january during the transition. he was repeatedly asked if this happened. not only did he raise the issue of three or four or 17 agencies, that despite the fact of the number of agencies no matter how many you're counting -- >> i want you to go a little farther with that. there are 17 intelligence agencies, 16 plus the director of national intelligence, which sometimes is a bit of an umbrella group over them. there is a reason why 16 or 17 agencies didn't chime in on this, but only four did. explain that a bit further.
>> his point is, the media reporting sometimes over-simplifying it, saying the intelligence agency, is such and such. it's correct that only three of the agencies actually examined it and then it became the conclusion of the director of the office of national intelligence representing the 17 agencies. it's not that the other 14 agencies had a different conclusion. they just did not look at it specifically. however you want to number it, the intelligence agency is in consensus about it. there was meddling, and the purpose of the meddling was to aid donald trump in his election and it was ordered specifically by president putin. you heard president trump raise questions about that just yesterday as mike mcfaul just mentioned. he not only said i don't know, it's possible, this is possible that. he specifically raised again this idea of the iraq intelligence that was wrong before the invasion of 2003. they got that wrong, how do we know they don't have this wrong?
>> ie, why trust the intelligence community at all because they got information leading to the iraq war wrong? >> exactly. so we don't know really what happened. therefore, we can't trust anything being told to us by the intelligence agencies. he's equating, he's making an equivalence between the american intelligence agencies and the russian intelligence saying it didn't happen. and rex tillerson says it's an intractable disagreement, and we have to move forward because there is no way to solve it. therefore, he said/he said, let's just move on and let bygones be bygones. >> we have russian expansionism, a mess in the middle east including in syria and yemen and libya. the north korea issue. and many thought of the g20 as an opportunity, perhaps, for america and donald trump to reclaim the mantle of leadership
in the world that has been deteriorating over the months because donald trump has not reaffirmed the commitment until yesterday, again, properly, to article 5 of nato. he has not taken the leadership roles necessary. it didn't happen. that didn't happen at the g20. if anything, the leaders on saturday will leave the g20 with the world a more splintered place than it was when this meeting started. what's the place for the united states in the world right now? >> it's really disheartening to see that the president in such a short time has damaged the united states' reputation throughout the world. there is a reason that dozens of national security and foreign policy experts and former officials were so concerned about donald trump becoming president on the campaign. and there is nothing that he has done since he has been president that has changed that assessment. but just going back for a second to what peter baker was
describing with respect to the intelligence community. what really matters is the agencies that were involved in making the determination. and the agencies that have the relevant responsibility for looking at major counterintelligence issues are the agencies that were involved in making that assessment. and it's not just the agencies. it's the director of national intelligence who sits atop all the intelligence community. it's the former director of national intelligence and president trump's current director of national intelligence who supports the assessment that there was russian influence on the campaign. the former fbi director, the bipartisan chair and vice-chair of the senate intelligence committee. basically everybody in a position of authority to understand this intelligence supports the intelligence community's assessment. it's only the president that doesn't. >> mike mcfaul, what is the job of the ambassador, a chief diplomat, the subject of
state. how are you supposed to handle this evidence? once all the evidence is gathered. this is commonplace for the diplomatic community. what was the opportunity missed today? >> you know in my opinion, he should have gone into that meeting and said president putin, i know what you did in our election. there is no doubt about it. and now that i am president, that can never happen again. if it does happen again, here are the consequences and spell them out. >> and to be clear, there are lots of consequences. the sanctions they want removed so badly, are really the tip of the iceberg. >> what the president doesn't understand about vladimir putin, i've been in several of these meetings before during the obama administration. he respects strength. when you come in and lead with well, the people want me to look into this, but what do you think, mr. putin, president putin? it's been noted that the senate is going to put sanctions on
you, not me, that is a position of weakness. and that suggests to vladimir putin that he can gain and obtain concessions from president trump moving forward. he wanted a good meeting. putin wanted a good meeting. they got the good meeting. but moving forward we have to focus on what is in america's best interest, not just what makes for a good meeting. >> we should mention, by the way, peter has a new book out. it's called "obama, the call of history." the ambassador is sticking with me because we're taking a closer look at vladimir putin when we come back. what it was like inside that room with the russian leader. "the 11th hour" is back after this. mom, i have to tell you something. dad, one second i was driving and then the next... they just didn't stop and then... i'm really sorry.
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i think the president, at this point, he pressed him and you know felt like at this point, let's talk about how to go forward. and i think that was the right place to spend our time, rather than spending a lot of time having a disagreement. >> that was secretary of state rex tillerson, in that meeting where the highly anticipated meeting between trump and putin happened. tillerson's comments reveal the strategy on how far the administration was prepared to push russia for meddling in our election. ambassador mike mcfaul is still here with us, also mike nantz, the author of several books. how russia cyberspies and how
wikileaks tried to steal the 2016 election. malcolm, that is a definitive title to a book that lets me believe you think that the russian government was involved in hacking the u.s. election. you're a former intelligence officer. once again, president trump took aim at the american intelligence community, undercutting them and suggesting that not everybody is on board with this idea that the russians hacked the election, and even if they are you can't trust the intelligence community. i guess my question to you is, how does this affect the rank and file in the intelligence community that is compiled of several different agencies? >> it doesn't, it doesn't affect them because these are men and women that come in every day. in the cia passed the wall of honor, they go about doing their job keeping this nation safe. and that is what they're going to do. now, in the watch offices and places like this who watch programs like this, when they hear statements like this, you literally will hear people throw their hands in this air and they
will go oh, and they go back to their job. it's their job to keep this nation safe. does it undermine their morale? yes, it does. does it mean it will stop them from doing their daily mission? no, it doesn't. >> ambassador, i want to ask you about something david ignatius wrote in "the washington post" today. trump may claim he won the u.s.-russia meeting, but after to come in from the cold after the sanctions and diplomatic isolation that followed russian's invasion of crimea. about 60% of russia's gdp is in some way related to oil and gas and natural resources. some would call it a big gas station. they were on the brink at the time of that invasion, of a very good deal with exxonmobil, of which rex tillerson was the ceo, to drill in the arctic.
they really need these sanctions removed. it's really hurt their economy. >> they most certainly have. i was the ambassador when that deal was being done. putin wants that to go forward. there is a lot of debate what percentage of gdp does it account for. i think the evidence is clear. putin wants the sanctions to be lifted. therefore, it must be costly. what i think was a real disappointment for me about this conversation and especially the read out by secretary tillerson, he kept saying well, we all have to forget about the past and move forward. >> this may be a disagreement that we have to agree to disagree. >> yeah, and we may disagree about policies between countries including the united states and russia. most certainly that happened when i was in the government. we can't agree to disagree about facts. and there are facts here, they violated our sovereignty, and so to just kind of say, well, we can't come to an agreement so let's move on. that's a very weak position.
i would go farther. if you think about the content of u.s./russian relations today with the possible exception of ukraine, what about ukraine, we didn't annex territory there and support separatists. that is what russia did. the meddling in the election. did we meddle in their elections? no, that was created by putin. who was the leader that backed assad? that was putin. it's his agenda, he created that agenda. so for us to just say well, let's move forward because, why? we want to cooperate on what? i think that is not smart diplomacy. >> malcolm, we use intelligence-gathering to get proof and evidence. weirdly, vladimir putin through lavrov has said if you think we meddled in the election, provide us with the proof. that is not how the intelligence-gathering works. >> this is brilliant. people have said that putin was a mid-level human intelligence
officer and really was not a spy master. no, this guy was a spy master. he ran the fsb. he has studied all the histories and knows how to apply power at least on the political level. and understanding what he can get from his agencies. a biographer earlier today said he lives in his own information bubble, and i believe that. but that information bubble comes from his intelligence agencies as well as academics and his political supporters. that being said, he has an information dominance over donald trump. donald trump does not live in an area where he even believes his intelligence agencies. he disparages them. and it's the ultimate trolling for vladimir putin to say, okay, now give us the evidence. like all the evidence. let us know where we failed in our collection activities and where we succeeded in our
successful propaganda warfare against you. >> mike mcfaul, something happened that was interesting. melania trump who was playing a different role sat next to him at the dinner. at one point, first lady melania trump came in to see if she could put an end to the meeting. it didn't work. the group went on for another hour. what happened there? what was that all about? >> i have no idea. like i said, when i worked at the white house and then as ambassador, i participated in many bilateral meetings, both with putin and medvedev. i don't recall something like that happening. >> and in your meetings, notes were taken? >> i was the notetaker. often times the first meeting that obama had with prime minister putin, i was the note taker. i think it's very odd to not have your national security adviser in the room. >> h.r. mcmaster in this case.
>> h.r. mcmaster, when you are speaking about national security issues with the president of russia. >> and all the issues they had to cover were the national security issues whether it's the hacking of the election or syria or nato or north korea. everything was a national security issue. there was nothing else on the agenda that was meaningful? >> exactly, and every president, most certainly our national security advisers in the obama era were in the room. i can't remember when that did not happen. and secondly, they did not have a note-taker. that was important for a couple of reasons. one, this he said/he said outlook. i dealt with that with lavrov. we had to deal with that to rebut things he would say. but more importantly, there is a transcript for the rest of the trump administration. how do you make policy when you are flying blind and don't actually know what was being said? that, i think, was a big mistake on their part. >> good to have you with us, ambassador mcfaul. malcolm nantz. coming up, the president was
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campaign chairman john podesta. "everyone here is talking about why john podesta refused to give the dnc server to the fbi and the cia. disgraceful." now podesta who is in the middle of a road trip across the country with his wife replied in a series of tweets. "get a grip man. the russians committed a crime had they stole my e-mails to help get you elected president." he ended with, dude, get your head in the game. you're representing the u.s. at the g20. earlier, he called in about his reaction to the president's tweet. >> it's just totally amazing. i mean, i think my tweets kind of reflected my view, which is how could you imagine sitting there preparing for one of the most important meetings you will have on the world stage, both with the bilateral with putin, and more particularly, at the
g20 summit, and be staring at his phone and tweeting about me. and all of it's wrong. >> here with me now, senior politics reporter for "usa today," heidi pryzbola, sheila and peter is back with me from "the new york times." heidi, let me just start with you. the president had the biggest meeting so far of his presidency. he has china to worry about and north korea, and syria, and g20, and germany and angela merkel. what was he doing thinking about john podesta, someone i imagine most americans are not thinking about? >> well, i think two scenarios, one of them that this was strategic and a not so subtle way to ingratiate himself with putin. he knows he will have to raise this russian hacking issue. maybe he doesn't want to. it's uncomfortable.
so he goes ahead and attacks the primary victim of the russian hacking, which was john podesta. you combine them with the intelligence agency and these are all things that would be quite pleasing to putin. the other thing is he just may have had a bizarre dream about podesta and randomly decided to tweet it out. you choose. >> peter baker, for people who are a little confused about the story, i have to say, you're really right to be confused about this. john podesta never worked for the dnc. he had nothing to do with their server. the cia was not looking for it. what do you make of the fact that there was just nothing true about the tweet? >> yeah, the president seems to have confused two different elements of the story. there were two big hacks here, one of the democratic national committee e-mails and then later there was the one of john podesta's e-mails, not the same. although both of them were attributed to the russians. and it is true, there is questions about why the dnc
didn't take this more seriously. why they didn't you know, respond more aggressively when the fbi first notified them. there were questions to be asked about the dnc's decisions. but john podesta was not a part of that. it does seem like he is confused these two different episodes. >> shannon, the president is at the g20, which you and i know before the great recession, before the financial crisis, g20 was a finance ministers and bankers meeting. the world didn't cover it. and then the leaders started showing up. and the protesters started showing up. there was business to be done here. putting aside north korea and russia and the meeting with president xi jinping, the president had work to do with his counterparts who he's let down now regarding the paris agreement. the work that is typically done at g20 is not even getting done at this one. >> this seemed to go better than
his last trip to europe where he started off in the middle east and saudi arabia, which should have been the tricky part to navigate the relations with the saudis, israelis. that went smoothly and europe was where he got really tripped up and really stepped in it. this did seem to go smoother. did it go great, though? are we turning over a new leaf? no. there's still a lot of work there. this should be the easy, breezy part. germany, france, canada, and somehow that is difficult with the presidency. >> so the problem with the g20, these are leaders of 19 countries and europe, really the biggest economies of the world. the place where the united states has had the greatest degree of leadership in the last 25 years or so. >> right, and take climate change. in the past, the paris climate change could have been something that everybody came together and agreed on. nato, protecting everybody as a block, that would have been
something everybody agreed on. a lot of tensions because the president pulled out of the paris agreement. there was an attempt to take melania on a climate change computer lab tour with the other spouses. she got blocked in her residence because of protests but trying to get climate change back on the agenda. that's how they had to do that. we're trying to get the first lady to go to this climate change center and manipulate things behind the scenes that way. >> peter, let me ask you about another story developing, that is walter schab, the outgoing ethics chief. he resigned saying working with this white house is a disappointment. saying i can only describe my experience with the way they have run their ethics program in the white house is one of disappointment. he cited the ethics waiver for white house staffers. this is no way to run the ethics program.
what does this mean? what's the implication that the one person out there challenging the way donald trump and his family and close associates were doing business is walking away from the job. >> the office of government ethics is not a powerhouse agency in the government but it was founded after the watergate scandal to try to monitor and bring light on these various issues. and the fact this this director of it who has been a thorn in the side of this white house is stepping down, removes one more voice in this government who is pointing to issues with the president's continued holdings in the private sector. his term was going to be up in january, and he decided he was not going to be reappointed by president trump, given the clashes. he had done everything he could do in that circumstance but it does certainly make things easier for the white house that they won't have to contend with somebody who has been
pretty aggressive raising these issues, not just in the normal sphere of government court orders but on twitter, the president's favorite means of communication. >> yeah, he was a thorn in the side and will not be any longer. peter baker, thank you for joining us. heidi and shannon, stay with us. up next, new details on how the white house and senator mitch mcconnell's plan to sell the health care bill is going to go. "the 11th hour" is back after this. liberty did what? liberty mutual paid to replace all of our property that was damaged. and we didn't have to touch our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that. well, there goes my boat. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.
fixodent plus adhesives. there's a denture adhesive that holds strong until evening. just one application gives you superior hold even at the end of the day fixodent. strong more like natural teeth. involving north korea. two u.s. air force bombers just took part in a demonstration with the south korea military. these are b-1 bombers here. the military says the b-1s practiced attack capabilities by releasing inert weapons. it was a show of force involving south korea's military as well. a couple of south korean f-15s were involved in this. the military is saying it is
prepared to use a full range of capabilities to defend and preserve the security of the korean peninsula. we'll stay on top of that story for you. and president trump has said obamacare is dead. with congress back next week, what seems to be dead is the republican repeal effort. two months after celebrating, the house bill, the beer party at the white house, the republicans still lack the votes to pass one in the senate. in fact, gop opposition to the bill has grown. nine senators are now against it. "the washington post" reporting tonight that senate republicans along with the white house are planning a final urgent blitz to pass the bill, with figures and analysis from conservative organizations that show more benefits. show more benefit means more benefits than the cbo score, which didn't help the republicans on the house bill.
and didn't help them any more on the senate bill. that is what republicans are trying to sell. they're trying to say that don't trust that cbo score, there is some other story here. >> i don't know what benefits they're going to come up with ali, but the cost cuts to medicaid are the major sticking point for a lot of these moderate senators who are peeling off. then you have the conservatives who say it doesn't go far enough. i don't see how that fundamentally changes the calculus, and you have to remember what happened in the last 24 hours with mitch mcconnell essentially telling this rotary club that we may have to ultimately negotiate with the democrats on shoring up these exchanges. that is huge because all along, the republicans have been arguing that is impossible to shore up those exchanges. that obamacare is collapsing of its own weight. now you have the senate majority leader under all of this pressure with all these republicans peeling off acknowledging at the end of the day saying we may be forced to
the negotiating table with democrats. the polling on this is showing it's less popular than the remarkably unpopular house version. i want to play a sound bite from senator dianne feinstein who predicted mcconnell will not have the votes for this. >> the majority leader appointed 13 white men to sit in the back room and write a bill. we're very close to defeating it. mitch mcconnell, the leader, has not brought it to the floor. my sense is he will not until he has the votes. and my sense is that he is not going to have the votes. >> it's important to point out the reason there are nine republicans against this, that for two different reasons, some of them don't think it's conservative enough and it needs more cost cuts and the others don't think they will ever be re-elected if they pass a bill that takes more away from people. do you really think they will go ahead on a vote they don't have support for?
>> i think we'll see deja vu as to what happened in the house, and i think we already are. with the polarization within their own party, they're on two separate sides. they will not have the votes now. they have to go back to the august recess, they will get yelled at. we saw the same thing with the democrats and the obamacare debate. i think as we saw in the house, it looked like they were so far apart. how will they thread that needle? but they did. some of them held their nose and got it through. we'll see something similar, maybe late september, maybe before the end of the year. but i think the republicans know they have to do this. they own it whether they like it or not. they're going to come up with something. are the democrats going to come on board? i think that is still a fantasy at this point, but it will take some time. but they'll eventually -- >> when the stuff happened with the house bill, you and i were together in washington discussing this. and the issue, of course, is
that the republicans have to do something with health care. they've got to achieve these cost cuts in order to move on to what a lot of people think is a bigger priority and that's tax reform. >> that is right, some of the savings they would apply to tax reform would be gotten from the obamacare replacement. that is why democrats are so furious about this. they say it's essentially a tax cut veiled as a health care reform package. so this could be a domino, essentially, to trump's entire agenda if he cannot get it done. not only because it would demoralize his party, but like you say, the cost-saving benefits. i actually think it may not happen just because the senate is such a different chamber than the house. you never had speaker ryan talking at this point about potentially compromising with democrats. and you have so many members now speaking out like pat toomey
saying that, you know, look, we acknowledge that actually, we never thought trump would even get elected. we were caught flat footed. we have just been basically opposing obamacare all this time, but we did not have time to put together a plan. let's go back to the drawing board. whether that looks like something that compromises with democrats or another pass at a republican plan, i'm just not sure it will ultimately make it through the senate. >> real quick, shannon says it's a fantasy that democrats will get on board with this. do you agree with it? >> i totally agree they will never get on board with replacing obamacare. i think they would totally get on board with fixing some of the things that need to be fixed like shoring up the individual market. >> heidi, thank you very much. shannon as well from bloomberg. coming up -- the mystery eight decades old that may now maybe be newly solved. we'll be right back after this. ♪
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27,000 miles. >> it's one of the greatest unsolved mysteries of all time. >> the world's most daring pilot, amelia earhart, is lost at sea. >> amelia earhart set out. nobody knows what happened. but newly uncovered evidence is about to rewrite history. >> a newly discovered photo suggests that amelia earhart may have survived a crash landing and captured by the japanese in 1937. she was declared dead but her remains and aircraft were never found.
now a photo in question seen here appears to show earhart, and her navigator on a dock in the marshall islands after the crash. investigators working with the history channel for a new documentary tested the photo for authenticity. take a look. >> had it been manipulated, someone being inserted, moved or cropped or even just someone moved in the picture, they would stand out dramatically as either a very bright or dark object. abnormally bright or dark. notice through here we don't see anything standing out. it may be possible to fool one of these tests but it's not going to be possible to fool all five of them. i can say with a high degree, with 99.7% or higher probability that this picture is authentic and has not been manipulated in any way. >> our guest is part of the history channel's team that may
have cracked open an 80-year-old case. colonel dan hampton is a 20-year veteran of the air force having thrown 150 combat missions. colonel, good to see you. this is interesting because many people have come to terms with there is some mystery here, she probably crashed into the pacific. but we'll never know or find out. you didn't actually believe it was plausible that she had crashed into the pacific and perished there? >> i was unsure like most people who don't know much about it. two things convinced me, when they showed me the picture and what you just explained really set the stage. the second thing was when i did the math and worked out the fuel consumption, her range, could she have physically made it? and she could have. the two led me to the conclusion this has to be worth pursuing. >> let me ask you, looking at this picture, fred noonan, his hairline was sort of easy to determine. that was the easier part. the person who was thought maybe to be earhart, her back is to us.
what kind of science went into figuring out that that's amelia earhart. >> the same as far as they could. also body measurements, sitting heights, torso. they had an old picture of her because she had been a swimmer sitting by a pool and they overlaid it. it was identical. same measurements, body type, along with that being fred noonan, who else would that be? >> there is another picture of a ship, a boat, towing something. the calculations sort of indicated that that thing that is on it or is loaded onto it is the same size as her plane? >> right, the cargo ship was called the koshu, and that is confirmed that's it. the barge behind it was the thing they put it on when it was towed to the harbor. >> what is the likely course of events that would have led to her sitting on that dock and what happened afterwards? >> well, when she got to the island, she could not find it. she was north, the only bad
weather was north of the island. she had to divert fuel, meaning i have to turn around to safety. no professional pilot will orbit around until they run out of gas. instead head offing for gilberts held by the british, she hit the marshalls, held by the japanese. >> at that point, what do we think happened? >> well, she came down and landed on the reef. the local japanese civilians there, they were a trading company, would have contacted the military. the nearest military, they sent that boat, the koshu there. what i personally think is they are waiting for the military to show up. they don't think they're in custody. they think they've been rescued. >> you can catch the history channel, amelia earhart
sunday at 9:00 eastern. i know i'll be watching. up next, the hobbies of some of your united states senators. we'll be right back. managing blood sugar is not a marathon. it's a series of smart choices. and when you replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna made with carbsteady to help minimize blood sugar spikes you can really feel it. glucerna. everyday progress.
because my teeth are yellow. these photos? why don't you use a whitening toothpaste? i'm afraid it's bad for my teeth. try crest 3d white. crest 3d white diamond strong toothpaste and rinse... ...gently whiten... ...and fortify weak spots. use together for two times stronger enamel. crest 3d white. at crowne plaza we know business travel isn't just business. there's this. 'a bit of this. why not? your hotel should make it easy to do all the things you do. which is what we do. crowne plaza. we're all business, mostly. who says all we talk about is politics? the last thing before we go tonight, senators, they're just like us, minus the ability to pass laws.
"the new york times" found some more interesting hill hobbies in a piece out. republican senator pat toomey, he is a beekeeper. he is still new to beekeeping, which is a tradition in his home state of pennsylvania. honeybees were first introduced during the colonization of the united states. north dakota's junior senator heidi heitkamp is a certified pilates instructor. the democrat says she uses breathing techniques during stressful situations on capitol hill. and third term senator debbie stabenau of michigan plays a mean piano. she plays the classics and carole king, which she's played during tense situations in washington. she teamed up with tim keane on the harmonica. i like learning these things about my senators. makes them feel like regular people to me. that's our broadcast for tonight. i'm ali velshi.
brian will be back on monday. good night from nbc headquarters in new york city. due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. well, we have inmate kevin blanco who is a little upset. >> no, no. you've got to use force. >> they'll take their food for hostage. they'll take a shower hostage. >> strip down or stay right there. >> if it will get them the attention they want, they'll take it hostage. >> shoot me one more time and i'll come down.