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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  July 11, 2017 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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so you know, maybe they don't know the details of that law versus other sanctions, but he most certainly signaled and he has continued to signal his interest in exploring lifting sanctions and already in the debate, he's most certainly slowing down new sanctions the u.s. congress has proposed. >> michael mcfaul, thank you very much. >> thanks. that does it for me today. ali velshi picks things up right now. >> you have had a busy one. >> it's not over. i got 5:00 today, too. >> i will see you at 6:00. >> are we? did that happen on my phone? i just don't realize it? >> exactly. see you later on. i'm ali velshi. when the book comes out about president trump's time in office and the ongoing russia probe, today might very well get its own chapter. the president's son, donald trump jr., tweeted out a series of his own e-mails. they detail the leadup to that now infamous campaign season meeting with a kremlin-linked
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attorney. the person trump jr. was e-mailing was this fellow here. music publicist rob goldstone. he said an attorney had quote, information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia and would be very useful to your father. talking about hillary clinton and donald trump. and more than that, the e-mails indicate that donald trump jr. was told in advance that this attorney was with or representing the russian government. as for that attorney, he met with my colleague, keir simmons, who tracked her down in moscow, in an exclusive interview she denied any connection with the kremlin but in an apparent contradiction to what donald trump jr. has said, the attorney says the premise for the meeting was to discuss sanctions. >> reporter: what was the purpose of that meeting? >> translator: i never knew who else would be attending the meeting. all i knew that mr. donald trump jr. was willing to meet with me. i could recognize the young gentleman who was only present in the meeting for probably the first seven to ten minutes and
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then he stood up and left the room. it was mr. jared kushner and he never came back, by the way. and the other individual who was at the same meeting was always looking at his phone. he was reading something. he never took any active part in the conversation. that was mr. manafort. >> reporter: they had the impression, it appears, that they were going to be told some information that you had about the dnc. how did they get that impression? >> translator: it's quite possible that maybe they were looking for such information. they wanted it so badly. >> reporter: have you ever worked for the russian government? do you have connections to the russian government? >> translator: no. >> maybe they were looking for the information, everybody, there are so man people throwing people under the bus today, there's nobody left on the bus. let's get right to this. hallie jackson is on set. garrett haake is following the
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story from capitol hill where things are developing. hallie, we just finished one of those white house briefings, off camera, and sarah huckabee sanders, i think every question was about this or some relation to it, if not almost all of them, and she kept saying i don't know how many times i'm going to have to repeat myself but sdleehe directed all questi to donald trump jr.'s lawyer. >> reporter: correct. to outside counsel for donald trump jr. and for the president as well. notably, she read a statement from president trump because what has been noted today is that for all the tweeting president trump has been doing, he hasn't been tweeting about this. hasn't been tweeting about his kid. sarah huckabee sanders read a statement from the president. i want to play it. we will get into the details. >> i have a quick statement that i will read from the president. my son is a high quality person and i applaud his transparency. and beyond that, i'm going to have to refer everything on this matter to don jr.'s counsel and outside counsel and won't have
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anything else to add beyond that today. >> president trump applaud his son's transparency on this. i would point out my colleague peter alexander who followed up that exchange with his own question of did the president know donald trump jr. released those e-mails because the "new york times" already had them and was about to publish them. the "new york times" said it notified donald trump jr. it wanted a response, reached out to him for his response, then this all happened and it came out on twitter. he releases the e-mails and all these screen shots. we will do a narrative story telling. i will read through how this unfolded. we have graphics as well. june 3rd, this is when this exchange began. rob goldstone writes the crown prosecutor of russia met with his father, aras this morning. in their meeting, offered to provide the trump campaign with official documents and information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia and would it very useful to your father. continuing. this is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of russia and its government support for mr. trump
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helped along by aras and emin. that is the crucial statement people are looking at here. it very clearly spells out this is part of russia and its government's support for mr. trump. part of the response from donald trump jr. after that, that same day, again, this is not the entire e-mail but part of the response -- >> less than 20 minutes later. f-it's what you say i love it, especially later in the summer. june 6th, three days later, rob goldstone follows up, let me know when you free to talk with emin about this hillary info. june 7, goldstone says schedule a meeting with you and the russian government attorney, identifying her as a russian government attorney who is flying over from moscow for this thursday. i believe you are aware of the meeting and so wondered if 3:00 p.m. or later on thursday works for you. i assume it would be at your office. trump jr. responds that same day how about 3:00 at her office. goldstone says i will send the names of the people with you for security when i have them later today. the names of the people meeting. donald trump jr. responds that day great, it will likely be
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paul manafort, campaign boss, my brother-in-law and me. 725 fifth avenue, 25th floor. gives the address. this is significant because initially the reporting had been perhaps manafort and kushner had dropped in, been walking by and dropped in. clearly donald trump jr. had indication he wanted them to be at this meeting. so then on june 8th, goldstone says hey, would it be possible to move tomorrow's meeting to 4:00 p.m. as the russian attorney is in court until 3:00 p.m. the russian attorney. he says yes, i can do that unless they want to do today. they can't do it today as she hasn't landed yet from moscow. 4:00 p.m. is great tomorrow. june 8th, look what donald trump jr. does. he forwards this e-mail to jared kushner and paul manafort. meeting got moved to 4:00 tomorrow. my office. >> the plausible deniaiability gone. lost track of whether it's saturday or sunday of donald trump jr. saying didn't know who i was meeting with or for what.
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>> it bawas bee primarily discussed adoption services. nowhere in the e-mails do you see the words sanctions, adoption, magnitsky. donald trump jr.'s statement saturday was carefully worded because the majority of the time was spent talking about this adoption issue. that actually has not been totally disputed by the lawyer, that she has advocated for this, that part is not in dispute. the statement left the impression the meeting was about this. sunday it turns out it's about dirt on hillary and here we are tuesday with the confirmation that trump jr. knew he was meeting with at the time somebody who was identified as a russian government attorney and the meeting was accepted and planned. >> this is very helpful that you laid that narrative out. we have been getting bits and pieces from all over the place to look at it all and see the timeline is important. garrett and kasie have been at capitol hill. garrett, between the two of you, you have been getting responses from anybody who will respond. tell me a bit about what folks on capitol hill are saying now
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this is becoming so clear that donald trump jr. and jared kushner who now for the third time has not come clean about a meeting with russian representatives and paul manafort had this meeting and knew what it was about going into it. >> reporter: yeah. i will stick with that narrative storytelling format hallie was using. the start of the morning today on capitol hill was all about health care. senators have been back in their home states, they were coming back, they knew they had this unpopular bill that needed a lot of work to get fixed. republicans are ready to sort of buckle down and troy y to get t done. the donald trump jr. story was on a back burner. midway through the morning when the e-mails came out, things completely flipped. republican and democratic senators who i have been talking to throughout the day who thought they could sort of hermetically seal off this donald trump jr. story as they do with some of the other trump, twitter related and russia related scandals, came to the realization fairly quickly this was going to be an issue the senate was going to have to deal with. mainly in the form of the intel
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committee. you can see a sort of sampling of some of the senators i talked to. republicans and democrats today sort of realizing this is something they have to look into. take a quick listen. >> well, okay, so any time you're in a campaign and you get an offer from a foreign government to help your campaign, the answer is no. so i don't know what mr. trump jr.'s version of the facts are. definitely he has to testify, that e-mail was disturbing. but what is equally odd to me is that the person they met with knew absolutely nothing. >> meeting with a foreign government, that's a whole different issue than meeting with an individual. i have got to find out all the facts on this to be able to see -- obviously it's a concern. but it's a bigger concern because we are looking backwards at this point. >> they should have turned this over to law enforcement immediately. instead they had this very very troubling meeting and this is just wheel barrows full of new evidence for the special prosecutor and senate intelligence committee. >> reporter: so just a little while ago, the senate majority
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leader announced they would push back the start of their august recess. that's so they can focus on getting some of these big agenda items done, including health care, before people have to go home again. the majority leader tried to push this donald trump jr. story off and say this is just an issue for the senate intel committee. but i don't think it's going to be that easy. here's where the crossover happens. it is almost impossible to get anything done on capitol hill without big time leadership from the white house. now the president hasn't been seen in public in the last two days, much less been out here pushing for this bill. vice president mike pence, who has been and continues to negotiate with lawmakers, he's sort of caught up in this now, too. his office has put out a statement distancing himself from this meeting. remember all the times where he's come out and said this russia story is false, there was no contact with russia. everybody involved in needing to get this done has a russia problem yet again. >> real quick, there have been these allegations of what this might be. >> you heard garrett touch on that. these new words that have come out. >> sarah huckabee sanders
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responded? >> she was asked about this, words like treason, perjury. at first she said this is going to outside counsel but the reporter drilled down and said i'm asking about the new words. sanders says i think the new words are ridiculous. >> all right. consistency is always a good thing to have. thanks, hallie. hallie jackson, garrett haake. we will continue to cover this story. when it first broke over the weekend, my next guest said this is treason. he must have known the only way russia would get such information was by spying. richard painter joins me. he was chief white house ethics lawyer under george w. bush. richard, so some of the studying we have been doing indicates if you are not colluding with or dealing with providing benefit to an enemy in a time of war, it may not be interpreted as treason. >> the dictionary definition of treason is betrayal of one's country particularly to a foreign adversary. the statute that we have for prosecution of treason in and of
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itself does only apply when there is a declared war or attempt to overthrow the united states government. that particular statute. but we didn't have declared war throughout the cold war. people went to jail for conduct that amounted to the dictionary definition of treason. they just weren't prosecuted under the treason statute. we have statutes that prohibit espionage, that prohibit computer hacking and theft of data, statutes that prohibit false statements to the government, that prohibit perjury, that prohibit foreign governments from assisting united states government political campaigns. when we don't have a declared war, we deal with treason through other applicable law but that doesn't mean betraying one's country is not treason. it is. if the white house wants to take a position that betrayal of the united states to russia using foreign agents to help win a u.s. political campaign is not betrayal of the united states,
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if that isn't treason, they can go ahead and take that position but that's not the understanding of treason that most americans have. this is a meeting that was set up with a russian agent, the top three people from the trump campaign attended this meeting and now they are telling me that nothing happened? my answer to that is nyet. nyet. >> is there a difference between donald trump jr. being at that meeting and jared kushner being at that meeting? because jared kushner is now a government official and he had to fill out a form about the russian contacts he had and now this will be the third version of a meeting he's had involving someone representing the russian government that has not been disclosed. >> well, i certainly hope jared kushner accurately disclosed that meeting to the united states government in connection with his security clearance or he's in a lot of trouble. but the other two people at the
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meeting, mr. manafort and m trum jr., they also may very well have been asked questions by the fbi in connection with clearing the other individuals. i'm asked questions by the fbi when they want to clear one of my students for united states government job. i would be very surprised if when they cleared ivanka and jared if they didn't go to paul manafort and also donald trump jr. and asked them some questions. if those questions were answered untruthfully, that of course would be a criminal offense. i do not know whether those questions were answered truthfully or not. i hope they were answered truthfully. but donald trump jr.'s story is changing way too often for my comfort. >> it's changed, it's -- i'm glad hallie jackson gave that narrative because it is really hard to keep track of. the bottom line is, this is now all on the record and bob mueller will get to the bottom of this. my next question to you, who enforces this? is it up to the white house to do anything about it or is bob mueller, when he compiles his dossier going to be able to say
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wrongdoing was committed, crimes may have been committed, perjury may have been committed? >> bob mueller is there to investigate and prosecute crimes. congress, however, has an obligation to find out what happened with respect to collusion with the russians. based on what we have now, it's quite clear that we don't have collusion here like we didn't have with president bill clinton having sex with that woman. if this isn't evidence of collusion, i don't know what is, but this time we care about the lie. this is about betrayal of our country. congress needs to get to the bottom of this. we need the facts. they should not wait around for bob mueller. his job is the criminal investigation. congress' job is to make sure the people who are serving in the white house are loyal americans and not violating any laws or acted inappropriately. >> you make an interesting point. we always talk about the coverup being worse than the crime. in this particular case there's a potential coverup but the underlying issue here about meeting with russian government
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officials who have information that may have been stolen about america is an entirely different department of wrongdoing. good to see you as always. thank you. >> thank you. >> richard painter, chief white house ethics lawyer under george w. bush. coming up, more on today's breaking news on those e-mails. donald trump jr. releeased them earlier today. to hallie jackson's point, he released those e-mails because the "new york times" called him and said they were going to release those e-mails. this whole thing about how transparent he is rings a little holl hollow. did donald trump jr. take part in collusion? we will ask a former lawyer and congresswoman.
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there is some news out there that doesn't have to do with donald trump jr. and meetings and tweets and russians. president trump may have given defense secretary jim mattis authority to send more troops to afghanistan, but the president's chief strategist may also want some input in mattis' decision. steve bannon, this is a guy, remember, who seems to have input on military decisions, met with mattis on saturday. bannon apparently wanted to offer some alternatives to the pentagon's plans going forward. nbc news pentagon correspondent hans nichols joins me live. i feel we have to rewind. we had this discussion once before with a whole lot of national security and defense experts saying that that person, steve bannon, shouldn't be involved in military decisions or strategy. >> reporter: well, remember
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bannon was briefly on the national security council, then was taken off. in general, white houses do try to influence what the pentagon is doing and the pentagon typically pushes back and they fight for their independence. what we know is that on saturday, secretary mattis took a meeting with mr. bannon and from the "new york times" mr. bannon is trying to get this idea of having an alternative strategy review on afghanistan that relies in part on the ideas of eric prince and steve freeman and get their views to sort of do a separate afghanistan review. now, what we hear consistently here at the pentagon is the afghanistan review is in process, they want to get it right. we ask about timing all the time. we are routinely pushed back on that and they say we will come next week or the weeks thereafter. the latest on nato was it could come at the end of july. that's what secretary mattis told some of his counterparts. at a certain point the fighting season in afghanistan is going to be winding down. so yes, there's talk about
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getting this whole of government approach to afghanistan but at the same time, there doesn't seem to be that much urgency here at the pentagon in terms of the timeline of the strategy review but clearly, it looks like the white house is trying to influence. >> yeah. that is something a lot of experts have a lot of issues with. always good to see you. hans nichols at the pentagon. coming up, more on -- well, back to that story, more on the breaking news of donald trump jr.'s e-mail exchange with a business associate offering damaging information about hillary clinton. did don jr. cross the line into collusion? we will talk to an attorney and former member of the house judiciary committee who voted for impeachment of richard nixon. ♪
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andrea, these e-mails are very explosive. this is just wheelbarrows full of new evidence for the special prosecutor and the senate intelligence committee. >> wheelbarrows full of new evidence. reaction to donald trump jr.'s meeting with the kremlin-linked lawyer is drawing strong reaction from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. the question being asked is has this crossed the line into collusion. joining me is former
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congresswoman liz holtzman. she served on the house judiciary committee during the watergate investigation and wrote the special prosecutor statute, parts of which still survive which have resulted in bob mueller being appointed. it's a different piece of legislation. >> mine didn't survive because congress said they didn't want the president to be investigated by an independent prosecutor. >> but do you have confidence that bob mueller can do what he needs to do? >> yes. that doesn't mean that the white house won't try to stop him. >> that's right. do you think we have crossed that line where at this point, you heard from republicans and democrats today, all of whom are i think it's not unfair to say, disgusted by what has come out in the last couple of days. they're not going to let the president get away with firing bob mueller if it came to that. >> i hope not. >> what's your sense, you heard me talking to richard painter earlier, who still thinks this actually could wade into the waters of treason. but for most americans, they are mostly concerned with collusion with an adversary who may have been likely was trying to adversely affect our democratic
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institution. this morning, ted cruz went on tv and said people in texas don't care about this. i think that is just untrue. i can't imagine a single voting american who doesn't care that somebody was fiddling with our democracy. >> how stupid and how disloyal does he think texans are? i have relatives in texas. i know they care about our government. everybody cares about our government. nobody wants an outside force, whether it's russia or china or any other country manipulating our elections or being able to blackmail the president and his team by getting them to be involved in what seems to be criminal activity. nobody wants to see this. this is not minor or irrelevant. this could also bring down the government. >> in the e-mails, this was the interesting part of them, where rob goldman says the crown prosecutor of russia met with his father this morning and offered to provide the trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia, and the response from donald trump
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jr. is if that's what you say, i love it. this may have been true that she had information, it may not have been, but the bottom line is, the idea that they peddled it to the trump campaign and the trump campaign thought that was a good idea does tell us something. >> not only did they think it was a good idea, they loved the idea and they embraced the idea, because donald trump didn't say you know, i don't have time to meet with some low level person. donald trump brought in all the biggies in the campaign, the campaign manager, jared kushner, gave them the background of the e-mails even though he denied that he had given them any background. so it was clear this was the highest level of the campaign with the exception of the president or then candidate trump. >> what do you make of this, having been through this with watergate, having been closely associated with it, at what point does this start to affect the legitimacy of this president to a broader base of people who don't seem to, they seem to think this is a liberal media
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witch hunt. >> first of all, i have to say having been involved in watergate, it was one of the most unpleasant tasks i ever had to be involved in. i don't want to see a president behave that way. i didn't want to see a president engage in high crimes and misdemeanors. i don't care that i voted against him. i don't want to see that happen. i don't think any eastern ameris to see that happen even though i don't particularly like donald trump. we don't want to see this happen. but we can't have a president of the united states that's going to lie to the american people by saying my campaign never had any contacts with the russians and then now find out that not only did they have contacts with the russians, but it was contacts about affecting our basic democracy, our election. you know, whether we like it or not, we have to hold our noses and find out the truth, find out the facts and hold people accountable. if they broke the law, they have to either be prosecuted or if it comes to it we may have to have impeachment. >> former representative holtzman, thanks for being with us.
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former democratic congresswoman from new york, member of the house judiciary committee during watergate. coming up, you heard republicans say it over and over again, obamacare is collapsing, it's heading for a total meltdown. >> obamacare is a disaster. the democrats are up and they're saying oh, they're putting up signs like it's wonderful. it's a sds ter. >> a new report i have in my hand is disputing that widely used talking point. i will break this down for you after the break. you were made to move. to progress. to not just accept what you see, but imagine something new. at invisalign®, we use the most advanced teeth straightening technology to help you find the next amazing version of yourself. it's time to unl your secret weapon. it's there, right under your nose. get to your best smile up to 50% faster. visit invisalign.com to get started today.
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obamacare has been hurtling toward collapse for years. today, it sits on the edge of total meltdown. >> that was senate majority leader mitch mcconnell with the same dire warning that he, president trump and pretty much every republican has been issuing for years. obamacare is on the brink of collapse. there's one problem with that. it's a lie. at least according to the study by the nonpartisan kaiser family foundation which found profits for insurors under obamacare's individual exchanges are up. the insurors are making money. there are signs that for various reasons, the insurance market is stabilizing. i'm joined by senior vice president for special initiatives for the kaiser family foundation, larry levitt. larry, there have been some problems with the implementation of obamacare in the individual
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market which accounts for about i think 13% or 14% of the market, the insured market, in which enough healthy people didn't take the insurance. they paid the penalty instead because their premiums were higher than they wanted them to be or they didn't want to pay, and that ended up with a sicker pool of insured than was anticipated. is that right? >> that's right. there have been problems. when the affordable care act went into effect, people with pre-existing conditions, people who are sick, were guaranteed insurance and they signed up in large numbers. the problem was there weren't enough healthy people who got insurance to balance out the pool and insurors didn't totally expect that and they lost money in the early years of the program. >> and then they raised a number of premiums and that is what many people are complaining about, that in order to adjust for the fact that the pool got sicker than they expected, premiums went up higher than expected so there are a number
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of people in this country with a very valid beef about the fact their premiums are not subsidized, they make a certain amount of money, too much to be subsidized and their premiums are very expensive. fundamentally this underpins the accusation that obamacare is in a death spiral. >> that's right. premiums came in lower than expected initially but once insurors realized that they had this sicker pool of people, they had to raise premiums and if you're not getting a subsidy, you are paying full freight, you are going to be ticked off about that. that is fueling some of this backlash. most of the people who buy insurance in these marketplaces do get subsidies from the federal government and those subsidies cushion the impact of premium increases so they aren't actually paying any more. >> i'm reading from the report. it says insurors' financial results show no sign of market collapse. first quarter premium and claims data support the notion that 2017 premium increases were necessary as a one-time market
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correction. you're not expecting those increases to go up. in fact, i think we estimated about 5%, 5.5% increase under obamacare probably for the next ten years on average. >> yeah. i should clarify, we are not expecting insurors to need a big premium increase again. it looks like they are doing fine in this market with the premium increases this year. the one caveat to that is that there's enormous uncertainty for insurors right now in many cases stoked by comments by the trump administration. so with that uncertainty, insurors may hedge their bets and raise premiums significantly but not because -- >> not because of the risk pool, the change in the risk pool. all right. good to see you, larry. thanks very much. senior vice president for special initiatives for the kaiser family foundation which spends a lot of time and energy studying this stuff. i want to bring in the president of hoppe strategies, senior consultant for one nation health coalition, former chief of staff
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for speaker paul ryan. good to see you again. thank you for being with us. are you prepared to admit right now on live television on msnbc that you're sorry for saying obamacare was in a death spiral because it's not? >> well, what i would like to be prepared to say is i think you will join me and i'm hoping the kaiser permanente will join me in saying they should not be getting subsidies anymore. this money they are waiting for, if they are making so much money, let's take a little out of the insurance companies so they can provide it to the people who need these subsidies rather than the taxpayer providing it. >> dave, what happened? are you a communist all of a sudden? you want to take money from private corporation and give it to regular people who don't make enough money? >> that's not communism and you know it. what it is is saying insurance companies who have raised their subsidies every time the government raises the subsidies they raise their premiums. it's sort of like pell grants. if you want to know how much your kid's tuition is going up, look how much the government raises pell grants because you
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can bet the college your kids are going to will raise their tuition the same amount. that's what's happening here. if they are doing so well and some of them are doing very well according to this report, they should be taking it out of their, their profits. not out of the tax payer's pockets to pay for this. i hope you will join me in that. >> there's insurors who are making a lot of money, pharmacy benefit managers that are making a lot of money. we have no control over prescription drugs and medicaid is not allowed to negotiate for them because of laws that were put in, there are all sorts of issues. there are lots of ways to fix this. but the fact is obamacare is not in a death spiral. obamacare didn't start any of these issues. >> in obamacare, the premiums have gone up $3,000 in four years. that's a lot for some people. now, we have subsidized to help some of those people who need the help. but that's a lot. it was much more than the government thought. the history of all government programs is they always cost more than you think they are going to cost. the prices keep going up and the cost to the taxpayer keeps going
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up. what you have to do is figure out a way to get the market back involved in this and let families make some of these decisions as opposed to the government making them. because the government has had four years since 2013 -- >> how about a family with a pre-existing condition, how do they make the decision to in insure themselves when' nub is co no one is compelled to insure them? >> there will be a need for risk pools because there are people that will run into problems beyond their ability to fund -- [ speaking simultaneously ] >> actually we have information on that. there was a transition program on risk pools set up by the aca and they were expected -- there's 129 million people who were at risk. they were expecting huge amount. know how many people they got signing up at the top end? 15,000. now, that's people who needed help. what i'm telling you is we don't know how many there are and the one bit of information we have in the last three or four years under the aca shows there may be a lot fewer of these people.
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this is something you need to do for people who need this help. but those can be worked out. you don't have to make the system government-controlled so people have no right -- >> you do have to. there's no universal health care in the world that doesn't mandate universal coverage. that's how you get the risk pool. you don't have to have high risk pools when everybody is insured. >> universal health care is not the goal. the goal is good health for people of the united states. i brought you on to apologize for saying obamacare is in a death spiral. but this way we get to speak again because you still haven't apologized. nice to see you, buddy. former chief of staff to paul ryan. i think he really does believe what i'm saying but just won't admit it on tv. coming up next, the fight over president trump's voter integrity commission is heating up as states around the country are pushing back in a way. roland martin joins us and he's fired up about the issue. i think he's hash tag bringing the funk.
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only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine st, for fast pain relief. tylenol® i don't tend to use air quotes but i will here. president trump's election integrity commission is looking into the debunked claim of millions of illegal votes cast
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in the 2016 election. it has run into a little pushback from 45 secretaries of state as well as members of congress demanding that the commission be dis'mantled. an article by my next guest suggests the commission could be in for a fight over voting rights all because of this picture. "usa today" reporter and msnbc contributor heidi przybilla is here to explain. we have had secretary of state after secretary of state after politician on air explaining why they are not participating, not handing over the stuff this voter integrity commission requires. but this is about something a little different. >> what you have here, ali, i talked to so many experts this week, nonpartisan experts, is a really unprecedented attempt by the federal government to essentially profile you as voters, to create a central storing house of personal information even though in some of these states it's publicly available, create a searchable data base including voting history, military history,
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criminal history, but most importantly, also party affiliation. why would they need that? that was one of the questions -- >> if you are trying to stop people from duplicate voting or dead people from voting or whatever issue they say they want to do, a lot of that information you just listed is not necessary. >> well, this is what the experts were pointing to which is this document as well as kobach's history in his own state of kansas where they had really strict voting restrictions put on reqring people to have a birth certificate or passport. what's that done? had a chilling effect on registration. estimates are one in every seven voters who is eligible to vote has been blocked in that state. this document in particular shows that even before this commission was formed, there appears to be on this sheet of paper proposals to change the national voter registration act. why does that matter? because right now, the national voter registration act is the only thing standing in the way of a lot of states that might want to purge voter rolls based
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on technical reasons. while at the same time, you will have this commission collecting information that allows it to kind of essentially have a data base for voters searchable by those very items like your party affiliation. so that's raising red flags and it's not a partisan thing. you saw the mississippi secretary of state say kobach should jump in the gulf of mexico because anybody who cares about potential federal abuse of power and the federal government centralizing this information would be concerned. good to talk to you. thanks so much for joining us with this reporting on this. we will continue to stay on this story. heidi przybilla with "usa today" . joining me to talk about this is roland martin, host and managing editor of news one. roland, most secretaries of state, most politicians and you have said to me the problem in this country with voting is too little of it, not too much of it. we don't actually have a problem with a whole lot of dead people voting or people voting in
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multiple states. best i can come up with is a handful of examples per election. what is this about? >> this is about purepolitics. russia is not the greatest threat to democracy in america. it is the republican party. i got lots of friends friends w republicans, lots of folks who are democrats. i don't align with any party. when you look what republicans are doing, not just with this commission but what they've done over the last ten years, it is clear voter suppression. you have dale schultz, a state senator, 30 years in wisconsin, who said he now regrets what they did in voting for those measures in wisconsin. he challenged his fellow republicans to say, give me examples of voter fraud. they couldn't. he found two, both involved republicans. you had, of course, in 2012, a top republican in pennsylvania who said voter i.d. will elect
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mitt romney. when they were sued the attorney general filed paperwork with the court saying we have no proof of voter fraud. this is a fraud. republicans in maine, iowa, north carolina, the alabama of the 21st century. mississippi, texas. florida. on and on. this is the mantra of the republican party, to suppress votes in order to win. it is shameful and despicable, ali. >> part of this is being pushed by chris kobach, the secretary of state for kansas. >> yep. >> who has tried to do this. you are looking at him on the screen. he has tried to do this. he used as proof an example of a man who he said had died a long time ago but had voted on a recent election. it turns out that the guy was very much alive and it was his father who had died. this is just not proving to be a successful venture. >> greg palace, the journalist, has been talking about the whole idea of cross-checking. they're saying, if there is a roland martin in texas and
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michigan, oh, that must be the same person, so they're challenging it. mothers jones has a piece about three conservatives, one from virginia, one trump just put on this commission, what they are doing is sending legal notices to small towns in mississippi who can't afford a legal battle saying purge your roles. they can't afford it. this is a part of republican strategy. col there was a guy whose last name was smith. segregations in virginia. he wouldn't even have a committee hearing during the civil rights movement. bob goodlatte won't have a single hearing in the house because he doesn't want to hear it. >> it's a remarkable issue. good on the secretaries of states pushing back on this. we've been talking about making
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it better and easier for people to vote. but they have to take the responsibility of casting the ballots. we do an okay job at the federal level. below that, at the state and municipal level -- >> that's where the problems are. next, we'll break down the time line of events since donald trump jr.'s meetings with the russian attorney. whoooo.
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we're just moments away from the closing bell on this amazon prime day. i didn't want to do this. it wasn't meant to be an ad for amazon. dow up 13 points right now. amazon said earlier today customers are shopping at record levels worldwide on prime day, which is an invented holiday. it's basically black friday in the middle of the year. bringing in my buddy ron who follows this closely. we're old enough to remember no prime day, no internet. >> i worked in the mall on many days that were typically holidays. >> on big shopping days we would actually go to malls. >> yes. >> retailers' stocks have taken a beating for months now. in the last 24 hours as well. are we capitulating. are we going to buy everything on amazon from here on out? >> i am not sure everything, but you'll need a reason to go to the store or the mall that isn't something you can get on amazon for less money and with more convenience. i think that will be the continuing disruptive factor in retail.
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you need a reason to live. you need a reason to have bricks and mortar stores to survive what is an increasingly competitive marketplace. it's going to be an environment in which, you know, i think investors, traders, will probably stay short a lot of these stocks unless the dust settles and they see what else amazon gets into. they're adding some new business almost every day. >> we'll have to have a conversation one day culturally whether we're okay with loving the disruption, what it does to the market and destroying the world as we know it. where do we hang out on a sunday afternoon? >> we'll sit there with the amazon echo listening to the bay cityollers and having a good time. >> good to see you as always. phil bump of the "washington post" has a detailed time line of events during and after the
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meeting donald trump jr. participated in. donald trump said days before the californiaprimary. >> by the way, hillary clinton is misng 30,000 e-mails. they've been deleted. 30,000. >> here is what we're learning from june 3rd to 7th, 2016. the e-mail chain with goldstone that we have been talking about occurs. june 7th, trump wins five primaries. california, montana, new jersey, new mexico. south dakota. giving him enough to clinch the nomination. he promises more information on clinton. june 9, trump checks in trump tower on facebook. the meeting in question takes place. june 13th, a person calling himself guccifer 2.0 releases a dnc opposition file on trump stolen from the dnc. july 2016 the fbi begins a counter inlligence investigation into russia's attempted election meddling. this is from phil bump of the "washington post." that does it for me.
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i am back at 6:00 p.m. eastern time. "deadline: white house" with mike barnicle in for nicolle wallace begins right now. i am mike barnicle in for nicolle wallace who no doubt wishes she weren't on vacation today. a potential new break in the trump potential collusion information. e-mails from a year ago tweeted out this morning by donald trump jr. himself show rob goldstone, a former trump business partner with ties to the russian government explicitly promised russian government assistance to help trump defeat hillary clinton. goldstone writes, quote, the crown prosecutor of russia met with his father aras this morning and in the meeting offered to provide the trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia and be very useful to your father. this is obviously very high level and sensitive i

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