tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 11, 2017 5:00pm-5:30pm PDT
talking about nothing burger story? >> so put brit hume down as a nothing burger. >> that's a phrase that has gotten so common. >> now the e-mails are out. at least one of those people has evolved. today he declared it is, now, a something burger tweeting, i voted for potus last november and want him and the usa to succeed but that meeting given that e-mail chain just released, is a big no-no. >> the senate republican leader renewed his push to get a gop health care bill passed. possibly before it's too late. the fallout and trump e-mails on the hill right after this break. isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless.
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someone close to the president needs to get everyone connected with that campaign in a room and say from the time you saw dr. zhivago until the moment you drank vodka with a guy named boris, you list everyone of those and we'll turn it over to the special counsel. this drip, drip, drip is undermining this administration. >> this was one of a range of republican reactions including utah senator orrin hatch who called the e-mails overblown. one man in washington had an immediately pragmatic reaction. mitch mcconnell appeared to recognize a clock is running on this administration with hours
of the release of the e-mails, he pushed back the august recess so as to jam through as. business as possible as quickly as possible. >> we've got the defense authorization, we've got the debt ceiling, the fda user fee and other important legislation that we need to address and we simply, as a result of all this obstructionism, don't have enough time to address all of these issues between now and the originally anticipated august recess. so we'll be here the first two weeks of august. >> mitch mcconnell may be blaming democrats who are of course in the minority for obstruction, but the calendar suggests this is about passing health care reform before more scandal eresults and closes the window. this despiter the campaign sought to collude with a foreign power during the election. with me now, republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania.
how would you characterize senior members of the campaign taking a meeting with someone described as a foreign agent of a foreign power to provide derogatory information about their campaign opponent? how would you characterize that? >> at the very least, problematic. damaging. >> problematic. damaging. i would say. it's not something i could ever explain or deny and i won't even try. i think it is a serious problem and that's why bob mueller is investigating and he will make a determination if there is any collusion or if laws were broken. it is a serious matter. i'm not going to whitewash this by any means. >> is there anything, i don't know how the ask this. the question that everybody wants to know. is there anything that would happen that would say, that would make you, charlie dent, say i cannot support donald trump as president of the united states? i can't vote for his agenda. i can't be on board with him. >> well, let me answer it this
way. i think when we get beyond the day to day news on russia, the drip, drip, drip, i think we have to look at this on a much broader context than russia. they are a hostile foreign power. they are an adversary. they are a threat. they want to break up nato. they want to undermine american influence anywhere they can. they behaved badly in ukraine and syria and our elections. we all know that. they're bad actors. and we should not be entering agreement on cyber security, for example. we should be doing that with our friends and our allies to protect against threats like russia. and not expose our methods and our intelligence, our knowledge, with a hostile actor. i don't understand why this administration is so he conciliatory and accommodating to putin's russia. >> but you don't understand, there is a plausible theory not given today's e-mail, perhaps
they're acome dating because they know that that government helped them get elected, and could presumably help they will in the future. isn't that a theory to entertain? >> i guess a fair point, chris. fair point. my view on the administration, i work with the administration on issues when i think they're moving in the right direction. i will support them. when they're doing things not in our nation's interests, i'll serve as a check and i'll oppose them. it is not an issue of a zero sum game. that because of an issue, i have to oppose or support them on everything. i think we have to be a little more balance in the nuance. >> i get that. one of the things you did not support they will on is the health career in the senate. >> and the travel ban. >> but i guess the question i'm trying to get at is, at what point do you approach something that looks like a legitimacy crisis? here's an example. right now, mitch mcconnell will try on push through a bill
crafted in secret and rewritten in secret that would reorder 1/6 of the economy. 22 million people lose health care and do it in a two-week window in the wake of finding out concrete evidence the president's he campaign sought to collude with a foreign entity and the president himself you understand a criminal campaign for obstruction of justice. isn't those conditions, isn't it fair for americans to say, hold up. shouldn't we find out first if the president is first not a criminal before we pass this health care legislation? >> well, let me say this. we have important work to do, whether on tax reform, health care, infrastructure. and i have to operate under the presumption of innocence. all people are presumed innocent until proonl otherwise. so i think we have business to attend to. to the extent we are talking about in this case the russian matter or some other tweet that has nothing to do with anything substantive, it is distracting us from dealing with these real and serious policy issues the
president expects us to address. >> you're right. and presumption of innocence is of central he importance. it is different with the president. the president of the united states doesn't have, he isn't tried in normal court. the president is a citizen who has a very different set of legal accountability. the powers ubld article 1 of impeachment of the united states congress. so you ultimately, you are sitting in judgment. because there's no other process that doesn't involve one charlie dent and his colleagues in determining what is too much. >> well, i don't think that -- chris, look. you're using the term impeachment. i think that's not something we should be talking about at all. again, there is a threshold for that. high crimes is that misdemeanors. there is a presumption of innocence. yes, there is an ongoing investigation by bob mueller and committees. i think it is pre mature to be jumping to the next step about
what should happen in the event something does happen. we don't know if there was collusion or not. these e-mails don't look good bust that's up for the special prosecutor to make that recommendation. >> fair enough and final question. should mitch mcconnell have at least one hearing before they vote in the senate? >> well, i think there should be more transparency on the health care issue. i've always felt that way. >> should he have a hearing? >> yes. we should. the democrats shouldn't have muscled obamacare through the way they did and i don't think we should either. >> always a pleasure. i really do appreciate it. coming up, did donald trump jr. commit a crime? we'll talk about that and where the mueller investigation goes from here.
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. the billable hours are building up. president trump's legal team currently consists. vice president pence called it pretty routine when he hired a lawyer last month. around the same time jeff sessions retained legal counsel. jared kushner has hired two personal lawyers. and even trump's long time personal attorney michael cohen hired a personal attorney of his own. following revelations, we've been introduced to several new characters including this guy who is now wanting a lawyer for himself. one a history of defending monsters. that's thing two in 60 seconds.
the people allegedly kegtd to john jr.'s meeting last year have hired lawyers themselves. rob goldstone, the publicist and journalist with a pension for posting facebook videos like the one and who e-mailed john jr. to set up the meeting has confirmed he's hired an attorney. meanwhile the father/son duo, russian real estate developer and his son, the pop singer, the ones who are allegedly involved in setting up the meeting with john jr., also retained an attorney. but perhaps the most significant was there guy, criminal defense attorney who made a name for himself by defending high profile mobsters including the alleged head of the crime family and defendants accused of working with other crime families. that lawyer was retained yesterday by none other than donald trump jr. se to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment?
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trump jr.'s meeting along with paul manafort and jared kushner, with a russian lawyer, came to light through dogged reporting and leaks. imagine for a momentum what kind of information this can guy can get husband hands on. robert mueller has quietly been leading a justice department investigation into russian interference in last year's election. and as part of that, the investigation of the president himself for possible obstruction of justice. and doing so with an army of investigators in what is widely considered an all-star roster of lawyers known for their work in public security, corruption, and financial crimes. but what we're hearing from a lot of the president's defenders today is even if his oldest son crossed the line on collusion, he didn't commit a crime. are they right? we'll talk about that and where robert mueller's investigation is headed in the wake of the trump e-mails, next. each year sarah climbs 58,070 steps.
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legalzoom's network of attorneys can help you every step of the way so you can focus on what you do. we'll handle the legal stuff that comes up along the way. legalzoom. legal help is here. joining me now, carrie cordeiro, former justice department lawyer who now teaches at georgetown law, and paul butler, msnbc legal analyst, who also teaches at georgetown. all right, so, paul, let me start with you. just, there's a question today, it's not clear one way or the other, what we know today, does that constitute criminal activity. what's your read on that? >> chris, when donald trump jr. did this e-mail dump today, he provided probable cause for robert mueller to charge him with a crime. specifically, campaign fraud. it's a federal offense to solicit a campaign contribution from a foreign national.
the statute's clear. the contribution doesn't have to be cash, money, it can be anything of value, including opposition research. now, do i think mueller is going to charge him tomorrow? no. when you have probable cause, you don't have to do it that day. but make no mistake, mr. trump jr. is in deep trouble of his own doing at some point, he will be charged. >> carrie, do you agree? >> well, here's what i think thes e-mails that were released today showed. first of all, it showed that the trump campaign's senior individuals like donald trump jr. and the other senior leaders of the campaign knew that there was a russian influence that was supporting their -- his father's campaign and second of all, the e-mails provide more opportunity for the investigation to follow up on certain things. so, for example, it said that there was russian government support. and so the question that is raised is what is that other support that might exist? was it only opposition research
or, i think, the investigators are going to look at, were there other types of support, whether it's financial or something else, and i think that's going to be another area that the investigators can look at now. >> yeah, paul win me, i mean, tg i want to read are the e-mails after this meeting. if the meeting goes down that the way that people -- that don jr. says it went down, is that the lawyer came in and kind of hand waved and got into this adoption magnitsky act, you imagine there might be further e-mails or conversations with rod goldstone saying, hey, what was that, i thought you guys had real good dirt, what's the deal? can you ask aras and emin -- i mean, all of that will be accessible to investigators if any of that exists, right? >> right. this is the beginning of a paper trail. if this is what incredibly persuasive reporters are getting, and all they have the
is the power of persuasion, bob mueller has the power of subpoena. i think we can guess he has a lot more information that we can be looking. all he's looking at on the e-mails is the cc and he wants to know if the pig kahuna, donald trump sr. is in on any of this. i don't know anybody who believes donald trump sr. when he says he didn't know about this meeting. it belies credibility if you think his son was there, his son-in-law, the chief of his campaign, talking about something trump is obsessed w h with, hillary's e-mails, and he knows nothing about it? give me a break. >> carrie, i also thought that today's revelations colored the case for obstruction. if it is the fact that the president of the united states knew, and we haven't established that at all, but if it were the fact that it was established that he knew that the russian government was seeking to aid him, that his son and other aides had met with them, that would give them a very clear motivation to make sure that
people didn't do too much digging around into the issue, with right? >> look, he's known. the things -- whether he knew about this particular meeting or not is one thing. but what this one meeting will lead to is an uncovering of whether there were other similar types of meetings or conversations. his efforts have been to stop this investigation. he fired the chief investigator. he has tweeted repeatedly, trying to discredit the investigation. he's tried to discredit the fbi, he's tried to discredit the intelligence community. he's wanted this investigation stopped. and so, there has to be a reason for that. >> paul, if you were an investigator, if you were working in the public corruption unit, part of justice, and you saw something like this, just a local race, where a campaign aide met with a foreign -- the promise of a foreign attorney, to provide oppo, what would go through your head? >> i would think, this is really weird. why is this guy meeting with a russian national.
and then i would do what bob mueller is going to do, which is to bring trump jr. in for a little sit down with crack fbi agents and his best prosecutors. and he's in a difficult position. if he tells the truth, he just complicates himself in campaign fraud. if he lies, he's going down for perjury. if he takes the fifth, then his dad, the president, has some explaining to do. >> all right. carrie cordero and paul butler, thank you both for your time. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks, my friend. and thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. so this is either, um, this is either the end of things, or things are about to get very, very weird. it's possible that things get weird and then they end. but one of those two things is definitely going to happen now. you know, in a movie, in a well-written book about a political scandal, what just happened today, what was just published today would be the end of the plot.