tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC July 13, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
your dramatic reading of the e-mails of marc kasowitz, provoked by your show last night. and i'm actually going to have to read some of them here too because there's some points i want to make about them later in the show. is that the reason he gave in his apology for doing such crazy things last night in those crazy e-mails was that it was 10:00 p.m. >> it was 10:00. >> i thought, wait a minute, that's my excuse. i own that. that explains everything i do. >> it only happened because it was 10:00 on a day that wasn't yet over. i was like you realize you're leading the legal team for the president of the united states in the biggest american political scandal ever. like 10:00 is not like nobody should be turning into a pumpkin at that point. you know what i'm saying? >> well, people have seen me turn into a pumpkin at 10:00, rachel. i have had my nights. but i'm going to try to hold it together just in honor of marc kasowitz. i'm going to try to hold it together for this entire hour
starting at 10:00 p.m. >> we can guess he might be watching. thank you, lawrence. >> thank you, rachel. well, we all know there is no magazine cover that donald trump cares about more than "time" magazine. when donald trump was growing up, making the cover of "time" magazine was just the biggest thing that could possibly happen to you in the magazine world or in the publicity world in general. so he has spent his life lying about how many times he has been on the cover of "time" magazine. and tonight all together now, we can start a new count. the number of times donald trump jr. is on the cover of "time" magazine. here is his first appearance on the cover of "time" magazine that came out today. congratulations, donald junior, you made it at age 39. your old man didn't make it until age 42. by the time you get to 42, i hope you have many more "time" magazine covers just like that one. >> i think from a practical
standpoint, most people would have taken that meeting. >> no. everybody wouldn't have done it. >> so what if you never worked on a campaign. you ought to know basic right or wrong. >> as far as my son is concerned, my son is a wonderful young man. >> his son is more or less the age of the president of france. >> the friendship between our two nations and ourselves, i might add, is unbreakable. >> donald trump does not recognize the seriousness of what is happening right now. >> collusion? we don't have that yet. i see illusion and delusion. >> we know that there was an attempt at collusion. tease clear from the e-mails. >> it was literally a wasted 20 minutes which was a shame. >> it was all in his yelp review. >> the new republican trump care bill is every bit as mean as the old one. >> i hope we beat this thing. i hope we beat this thing badly. >> i am sitting in the oval office with a pen in hand,
waiting for our senators to give it to me. >> what will happen if they don't? >> i will be very angry about it. >> the president of the united states went to france today to tell the world that america is a country of law breakers, that most people in america would do what the trumps would do -- solicit illegal help from the russian government in a presidential campaign. >> as far as my son is concerned, my son is a wonderful young man. he took a meeting with a russian lawyer, not a government lawyer but a russian lawyer. it was a short meeting. it was a meeting that went very, very quickly, very fast. two other people were in the room. i guess one of them left almost immediately, and the other one was not really focused on the meeting. i do think this. i think from a practical standpoint, most people would
have taken that meeting. honestly, i think the press made a very big deal over something that really a lot of people would do. >> most people would have taken that meeting. but no one ever has. no one before donald trump jr. and jared kushner and paul manafort, not in the history of american politics. no one has ever met with someone they thought was a russian government official there to help them with russian government information in a presidential campaign. it is against the law. the president told the world today that he doesn't consider that, the fact that it's against the law, to be a reason not to do something. it's against the law. so what? in trump world, most people would do it. "new york times" reporting continues to show the tensions building between team kushner and team trump. advisers to the white house. remember that phrase. advisers to the white house.
that is how "the new york times" described their original sources on the story of donald trump jr. and jared kushner and paul manafort's meeting with natalia veselnitskaya. they got it all -- all of it from advisers to the white house. and as i said at the time, that sounded to me like lawyers representing people in the white house. and, to me, it specifically sounded like jared kushner's lawyers because that's who would have all of that information. those advisers to the white house are once again delivering information to "the new york times" that is harmful to the president while trying to cast jared kushner in a better light. the times reports that jared kushner, quote, met with mr. trump to discuss the issue, meaning that meeting with natalia veselnitskaya. according to advisers to the white house, around the time he updated his federal disclosure form to include ms. veselnitskaya's name on a list of foreign contacts that mr.
kushner was required to submit to the fbi to obtain a security clearance. that is a direct contradiction of president trump's story. president trump's story has been that he didn't know anything about this meeting with natalia veselnitskaya until a couple of days ago, until basically last friday when "the new york times" started calling about it. but michael isikoff is reporting tonight that president trump's lawyers, the president's personal lawyers knew about donald trump jr.'s e-mails about the meeting weeks ago. weeks ago, not a couple of days ago. sources told yahoo news that marc kasowitz, the president's chief lawyer in the russia investigation, and alan garten were both informed about the e-mails in the third week of june after they were discovered by lawyers for kushner.
now, we told you here already that we know about these e-mails because jared kushner's lawyers found them. that's how we know about them. the first people to read these e-mails after they were sent last year -- the first people to read them this year were jared kushner's lawyers. consider this package in "the new york times." mr. kushner supplemented the list of foreign contacts three times, adding more than 100 names, people close to him said. so people close to jared kushner are telling "the new york times" about jared kushner updating his security clearance application. team kushner is obviously an invaluable set of sources for "the new york times." but people in the white house presumably on team trump continue in the giant battle of the secret sources with "the new york times" to try to make the president look better than jared kushner. here's how "the new york times" describes what jared kushner told his father-in-law about his
meeting with natalia veselnitskaya. mr. kushner played down the significance of the meeting and omitted significant details according to two people who were briefed on the exchange. they said mr. kushner informed the president that he had met with a russian foreign national and that while he had to report the name, it would not cause a problem for the administration. now, there's only two people who could have briefed someone else about that exchange -- donald trump or jared kushner. this passage plays better for donald trump than jared kushner, so this was no doubt not jared kushner's team of leaking, doing this kind of leaking for that particular paragraph. and it is stunning how blatantly team kushner is leaking to "the new york times" and leaving their fingerprints in the articles, including this passage. colleagues of mr. kushner said he had remained focused and upbeat despite the drum beat of
negative headlines, a trait they ascribe to his experience dealing with the legal troubles of his father, charles kushner, who was convicted of tax evasion and witness tampering. now, there are a couple of things that are absolutely stunning about that sentence. one is it begins with colleagues of mr. kushner. team kushner just blatantly saying, yeah, we're anonymous sources for the times, and here's something we're going to say that we think helps jared. so colleagues of mr. kushner. that also means that those colleagues are sources of other things than the things they have their actual label on in the article. that's how it works, and they are no doubt sources for many other articles. this bit, this bit, the colleagues of mr. kushner, they thought this played well for jared kushner, that he's keeping his cool because he's been through this before.
it's a reminder that jared kushner's father went to prison for tax evasion and witness tampering. and as we told you last night, the witness tampering was one of the most extraordinarily ugly, non-violent family stories you could ever hear. the witness that jared kushner's father was tampering with was his brother-in-law. his sister's husband. and the way jared kushner's father decided to tamper with that witness was to hire a prostitute who would then seduce his brother-in-law and did seduce his brother-in-law and make a video of her encounter with his brother-in-law. and then jared kushner's father, jared kushner's hero sent that video of the prostitute and his brother-in-law to his brother-in-law's wife, sent it to his sister. that's what jared kushner's father did, and that's what colleagues of mr. kushner decided was a good idea to revive when telling that story
to "the new york times" about just how focused and upbeat jared remains because, hey, you know, he's been through this kind of thing before, a federal investigation in the family. team trump is beginning to recognize the dangers posed by jared kushner and colleagues of mr. kushner. but president trump might be the last one to figure that out. joining us now, nancy sodeberg and deputy national security adviser at the white house under president clinton. also jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and defense department. ambassador soeder berg, i want to go to what the president said today in france where he basically stood up there and said, well, you know, most people would do this. most people would have this meeting. he didn't say it's against the law and most people would have this meeting, but we all know it's against the law.
so we all know the president was saying, most people, most americans, most people who work on american campaigns would commit this crime. >> well, first of all, it underscores how difficult it is to have members of your family that close inside the white house. you're always going to defend your family first. we don't actually know yet what the facts are in terms of the law. it's not illegal to meet with foreign nationals during a transition. it is illegal to take help from a foreign government, and there are so many questions still involved here that it's going to be one drip, drip, drip. and the faster the president can break from some of these issues and move forward, the better it will be. and he's unable to do that because he's got to defend members of his family. so i think this is a story that's going to consume the white house for some time to come. >> jeremy bash, your reaction to what the president had to say about this case today in france.
>> yeah, i think the everybody does it defense is going to be very hard to explain to bob mueller for a couple of reasons. first, meeting was with a government official. second, it wasn't just any government. it was of a foreign adversary. third, what was being advertised in the meeting and in the e-mails was support, a contribution, an illegal contribution from a foreign national to the campaign in the form of opposition research. and, fourth, the e-mail traffic from the intermediary explicitly said this was part of russia and the government's support for donald trump. if you take all four of those factors combined, it looked a lot different than standard opposition research, which everybody does. >> let's listen to what senator mark warner said today about these new developments involving donald trump's family. >> we still anticipate talking to mr. kushner. we have made a series of
document requests, and we expect to be receiving those very shortly. we also, as recently as this week, have put out requests to donald trump jr., and i'm going to take him at his word just as i'll talk mr. kushner at his word that they want to cooperate with the committee. >> ambassador soderberg this is how these expand. a story like this breaks and suddenly they have some very specific questions they'd like to ask donald trump jr. as soon as possible. >> well, and first of all, on the opposition research during a campaign, it is not normal to have the campaign chairman, paul manafort, and some of the closest associates of the candidate sit down and do this. you usually have a very separate team doing it. and this is a team that can't get their story straight. and whatever the original sin was here, whether it was criminal or just dumb, the
problem always comes in the investigation and whether you're telling the truth. people always lie under oath, always try and hide the truth, and it's always the cover-up that gets these guys. so they better get their story out right away and get it straight. they're going to be under oath, so they can't re-do the security forms or redo their statements. and i don't think we still know the full truth of any of these meetings. and that's what these investigations are going to show, and it's going to take some time. and i don't think any of the current statements that have been put forward will be the full story. there's a lot more here than we know. >> let's listen to what senator blumenthal said today about jared kushner. >> i think jared kushner ought to resign. either donald trump is lying when he says that he knew nothing of the meeting, or jared kushner failed to tell him about it. >> jeremy, your reaction to that? >> well, i think, again, bob mueller is going to look at all
those conversations and ask every single person involved what did you tell the president and when did you tell him. it's interesting. the defense of donald junior is he's not that bright and he doesn't know very much, which is sort of damning with faint praise of the son of the president. but jared kushner is a bright individual with a very important job in government, and i think he's going to be held to a very high standard. and paul manafort has basically made a career of being an expert on foreign agent registration, on lobbying disclosure, on federal election law. he clearly knows that it is inappropriate and unlawful to accept a contribution from a foreign government, from the russian government, particularly when it's delineated as part of a russian government operation to help the campaign. paul manafort knows well that that is inappropriate and illegal. >> jeremy bash and nancy soderberg, thank you for joining us tonight. really appreciate it.
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the most devastating sources "the new york times" has delivered in the last week are based on what the times has called advisers to the white house. and that is a sourcing identification that we have not seen in "the new york times." prior to this story about donald trump jr., jared kushner, and paul manafort meeting with that russian lawyer who they believed and hoped was a member of the russian government with government information on hillary clinton. who are the sources for these stories? why are they telling these stories to "the new york times"? "time" magazine's cover story, which gave donald trump jr. the cover for the first time in his life, says the white house isn't close to figuring out who inside and outside the white house is doing all the leaking. trump is said to have turned on his lawyers, blaming longtime personal attorney marc kasowitz for the team's failure to put an end to his woes, adding to their burden, the lawyers have been hamstrung by a deliberate decision inside the white house to avoid an internal
investigation, fearing the bad odor that news of an inquiry could create. joining us now, josh barrow, senior editor for business insider and an msnbc contributor, and jonathan capehart, an opinion writer for "the washington post" and an msnbc contributor. jonathan capehart, the question of who's doing this, i think we can all, you know, study the sourcing and study the exact wording of the sourcing and make our judgments. i'm betting heavily on team kushner being the principal leaker of most of this stuff. but what it shows is as these reports continue to come out, that there are clearly different factions within the white house, within trump world, with different agendas in this leaking. >> yes. and, you know, we've seen this since day one of the trump administration. from the moment they came into the white house, you could see the various factions fighting with each other. i used to jokingly say, you know, folks in the west wing are
knifing each other in the back and in the front. but this time, we see them still engaging in the same amount of intramural warfare but now the stakes are much, much higher. now you've got people who are looped into criminal investigations, investigations into the russian interference into the election. in the meeting that we're all talking about, the one with the russian lawyer, ms. veselnitskaya, of the three people who were in that room that we know of, only one of them is in the white house. only one of them had to fill out forms and do things where if he had lied, left things out, whatever, would put him in legal jeopardy, and that is jared kushner. and what we're seeing is the benefit of jared kushner having experienced washington lawyers. one of his lead lawyers is jamie gorelick, a longtime legal mind, and so they're playing by washington rules.
i have to give credit to his legal team. they are serving him well. what we are seeing is the president's team and whoever else is around him, particularly this mr. kasowitz, they're not used to the game the way it's played down here, and it's showing. >> josh barrow, we're not seeing a leaking system, i would call it, emerging within the reports that are white house leaks that lean against jared kushner, white house leaks that say, oh, you know, he downplayed this when he explained it to the president. he didn't tell the president the real truth about the meeting. he told the president the meeting would be absolutely no problem. that kind of stuff clearly is not coming from the kushner side. >> no, and then i'm interested we have this politico story today contending that kushner had been pushing for a stronger response from the white house on this, wanting them to send more
surrogates out, specifically wanting them to push back against chirons, the lower thirds that appear with information about the story, saying that those were unfair to the white house, basically contending that sean spicer and others in the press operation hadn't been doing enough. so it seems like someone wants the idea out there that kushner is really pushing hard to fight on behalf of don junior. i think that might in part be because a lot of people suspect what you suspect, that kushner or people around kushner are behind some of these leaks. i'm actually personally skept cat of the theory that kushner is thehe big leaker here because if he is, that's kind of stupid because this meeting is very damaging to both him and don junior. so sort of getting out there the idea that, oh, don junior set up this meeting and dragged jared in and why did he waste jared's time, that might win a news cycle or two, but ultimately the fact jared was in this meeting is very bad news for jared kushner and likely to draw more scrutiny on him as well. he's had smart legal advice, smart p.r. advice. i wouldn't have thought that his
smart p.r. people would have advised him to be behind any of these specific leaks. >> i'm going to do my quick summation of the jared team being the leakers theory. first of all, i'm sorry, but we don't have a choice of getting a smart leaker from the white house. they're all stupid. so all leakers would be stupid. that's just in the system there. that can't be stopped. but the theory of it, jonathan capehart, as josh has heard me say on the show is that jared kushner knew this was coming out. his lawyers found the e-mails. that's why we know the e-mails exist. he knew that this was going to come out when he had to testify or at some point sooner than that, and he wanted it to come out as soon as possible so that when he eventually does testify to congress, if he does, it can be old news and the way it came up this time, it came out on the head of donald trump jr. "the new york post" does the editorial that donald trump jr. is an idiot, and it has taken
days actually for this story to actually catch up with jared kushner in that sense. >> mm-hmm, right. i agree -- i'm on team lawrence on this. >> okay. >> when it comes to the theories because -- >> you agree with my definition of who the stupid leakers are. >> well, i don't know about the definition -- i don't know about the adjective stupid, because i think the way that jared kushner is playing -- assuming jared kushner's team is playing the game is very smart for the very reasons that you just outlined. they found it. they knew it was coming. they wanted to get out ahead of it. and the other key thing about this story is that jared kushner is the only person in the white house who was in that meeting back in june 2016. but he is also the first one to leave that meeting almost immediately, like within ten minutes. so that casts him in this whole cast of characters in a better light. maybe we'll hear what was in his mind when he testifies. but i think that also adds to his case.
>> let me go on record as saying i don't believe he left in ten minutes. i'll wait to see the videotape to prove that. but, josh barrow, go ahead quickly. >> so the thing is that this story dribbled out over several days, like bits and pieces of it. first it was that the meeting happened. then it was what the meeting was about. then it was that don junior had been told in advance of the meeting it was part of russian efforts. then the e-mail came out and it looks like whoever was behind the release of this information was trying to maximize the pain to the white house by dribbling it out so it would dominate four news cycles instead of one. if jared's objective had been to get the thing out there so that it would be less painful, it seems to me he wouldn't have done that. it seems whoever was behind this was trying to inflict pain on the whole trump family which is what makes me skeptical of jared kushner as the prime mover. >> we'll continue this discussion, the three of us, during the commercial break. thank you very much for joining
us tonight. really appreciate it. coming up, donald trump's lawyers' night of crazy, crazy e-mails. you heard rachel read you those e-mails in her hour. she delivered a brilliant, dramatic reading of those e-mails. i'm going to have to do my own quick reading of them to make a different point, including an explanation of why the lawyer apologized. noo
this one isn't for them. the worst lawyer who has ever represented a president in trouble did the worst thing last night that any lawyer representing a president has ever done. but in a trump world miracle, marc kasowitz actually did something today that his client, donald trump, has never done. marc kasowitz apologized. he apologized for sending a threatening e-mail to someone who had sent him an e-mail that was critical of him. it all started at 9:28 p.m. last night, right after rachel made some general comments about a very negative article about marc kasowitz. >> it's got a lot of disparaging personal information about mr. kasowitz, including stuff like about his lifestyle and even medical issues for him. it's got a lot of details about -- i kid you not -- his behavior at office christmas parties. it is an unusual thing.
>> that was rachel last night. that's as far as she went. she's so polite. she didn't mention any of the details in the article, but she urged people to read the article, which details marc kasowitz's repeated struggles with alcohol. the article says he sought treatment at a high-end rehab facility according to two people who heard it from kasowitz himself. the reason all of this was relevant is that marc kasowitz has not applied for a security clearance, which makes it virtually impossible for marc kasowitz to represent the president of the united states in a case that does, indeed, involve classified material. jessize inger, who co-wrote the article, will join us shortly. he reported that experts on federal security reviews told the paper that recent episodes of alcohol abuse are a major barrier to receiving a clearance. someone who read that article sent an e-mail to kasowitz right
after rachel talked about it. the e-mail said, i believe it is in your interest and the long-term interest of your firm for you to resign from your position advising the president pending federal legal matters. no good can come from this and, in fact, your name may turn out to be a disparaging historical footnote to the presidency of djt. this person, who remains unnamed, does not know marc kasowitz. he was just reacting to the news and sent an e-mail. five minutes later, the president's lawyer obviously had nothing to do. he responded, and he responded with two words. f-you. and as rachel pointed out earlier. he typed it that way. he typed it the polite way, didn't put that vowel in the middle. 15 minutes after that, kasowitz sent another e-mail. you don't know me, but i will know you. how dare you send me an e-mail like that.
i'm on you now. you are effing with me now. let's see who you are. watch your back, bitch. the man then applied, saying, thank you for your kind reply. i may be in touch as appropriate. marc kasowitz wasn't finished. he wrote, call me. if you want a conversation, i will have it with you. you are such a piece of -- call me. don't be afraid, you piece of -- word i can't say. stand up. if you don't call, you're just afraid. call me. and then 33 minutes after that, marc kasowitz, working on the presumption that the man was jewish based on possibly his last name, wrote this. i'm jewish. i presume you are too. stop being afraid. call me or give me your number, and i will call you. i already know where you live. i'm on you. you might as well call me. you will see me. i promise. bro.
marc kasowitz is what would have become of donald trump if donald trump could have possibly gotten into law school and passed the bar exam. never has an attorney and a client been more perfectly matched. the person marc kasowitz threatened reported the e-mails to the fbi, and now marc kasowitz will absolutely never get a security clearance, never, not for the rest of his life because the fbi is now on to him. what he did on e-mail last night is enough to prevent him from getting a security clearance for the rest of his life, and apparently things he's done prior to last night prevented him from even considering applying for a security clearance. marc kasowitz has to live by a set of rules that in many ways are much stricter than the law. donald trump doesn't. that -- that is why marc kasowitz apologized.
apologized to the person he threatened last night because if marc kasowitz did not immediately apologize, he would risk being disbarred. he would risk losing his right to practice law, a risk that his apology does not completely erase, but it is a very, very important first step. marc kasowitz had a spokesperson release this statement. the person sending that e-mail is entitled to his opinion, and i should not have responded in that inappropriate manner. i intend to send him an e-mail stating just that. this is one of those times where one wishes he could reverse the clock, but of course i can't. judgment is one of the key qualities that is being evaluated when you apply for a security clearance. marc kasowitz disgraced himself last night. and when you read the pro
publica article as i hope you do, you may conclude he has disgraced himself many time before last night. marc kasowitz's right to practice law is now hanging by a thread. the new york bar association has enough in those e-mails last night to disbar marc kasowitz or to severely discipline him, to suspend him, suspend his license to practice law. that is why marc kasowitz apologized. he also apologized because the fbi is on to him, and he went very, very close tohe line of possible legal threat in there that would be considered a crime, a crime of intimidation. that is the lawyer donald trump has chosen to represent him in the most important case of his life. and the day that we will know that the president understands just how much trouble he really
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winning journalist and senior reporter at pro publica, jesse eisinger. your reporting has been extraordinary. i've been reading all of it. >> thank you so much. >> how strong, how solid is marc kasowitz's future in the trump defense team? >> unclear. you know, some people were taking bets that they thought that trump actually would like these e-mails. but i think unfortunately mr. kasowitz is going to probably have to step down. that's what i would suspect. we've heard rumors of that, to that effect, but we haven't heard anything on timing. >> it seems unlikely, jesse, that the fbi will just ignore this complaint that's been filed. it seems they're going to have to look into it, and the other lawyers on the team have an obligation to give the client advice about how they should handle this, iding the possibility of basically firing kasowitz.
>> i would imagine that that is true. there were threats in the e-mails last night, serious threats. and the fact that they're from the president's lawyer make them even more serious. so i would imagine that the fbi would at least do something cursory at the very least. >> jesse, how does the person who received these threats -- how is that person feeling tonight? >> well, i think he was happy that the story came out. he was quite appalled and astonished. now, as you said earlier, he was watching rachel maddow's show. he decided to fire off this e-mail. i think it was beyond his wildest imagination that he would get a response and a response like that was pretty shocking, and it landed in my colleague's in box this morning. he was quite appalled. >> jesse, we're recommending everybody go to your website, read all of your coverage on this. it's really been stunning to read.
>> thanks so much. >> jesse eisinger, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> okay. sure. coming up, president trump survives a grueling interview with pat robertson. and inadvertently confesses to being the laziest president of all time. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. this july visit your local volvo dealer to receive sommar savings of up to $4,500. this july visit your local volvo dealer we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights,
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robertson. 87-year-old pat robertson had no problem bridging the generation gap with 71-year-old donald trump in that interview. the president made it very clear that he believes passing a health care bill has absolutely nothing to with him. >> "i" sitting in the oval office with a pen in hand waiting for our senators to give it to me. for years they've been talking about repeal replace, repeal, replace i think they pass to do 61 times. but that didn't mean anything because you had the minority, the republicans they didn't have the majority. it wasn't getting to the president. if it did obama wasn't going to sign it. so it didn't mean anything. now we have a president that's waiting to sign it. i have pen in hand. >> perhaps because no one working with in the white house knows this. no one has then told the president that no major health care bill has ever passed the
senate or the house without a president pushing it and pushing it hard. president lyndon johnson purnd the biggest things we've done through congress, medicare and medicaid. president george w. bush pushed the republican expansion of medicare through the congress, adding the prescription drug act. and president barack obama push the affordable care act through the congress. did he not sit there with pen in hand waiting. president obama did not say, getting this done is someone else's job. >> mitch has to pull it off. he is working hard. he's got to pull it off. >> even pat robertsen had the feeling that sitting there with pen in hand -- might not be enough. to convince the senate to pass a bill. >> what will happen if they don't? >> well i don't even want to talk about it. because i think it would be very bad. i will be very angry about it and a lot of people will be very upset.
but i'm sitting waiting for that bill to come to my desk. >> and will donald trump supporters be very angry because all he did was sit and wait for a bill to come to his desk? so will sitting and waiting for a bill get the job done. i'll ask ezra klein next. his knew piece is entitled to the new senate health care bill is terrible for anyone who has been sick, or will be sick. stop him from keeping up. because at a dr. scholl's kiosk he got a recommendation for our best custom fit orthotic to relieve his foot, knee, or lower back pain, from being on his feet. by reducing shock and stress on his body with every step. so look out world, dad's taking charge. dr. scholl's. born to move.
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healthcare is very hard. it's hard because you'll to something a little bit this way. and you'll pick up that final vote and you'll lose four votes over here. you move it back. it's this tiny road bd two feet wide throughout the country. >> tiny little road. a yellow brick road? joining us now ezra klein, the editor in chief of vox.com. ezra i'm calling pat robertsen and have him explain to me what the tiny little road was he was talking about. you've read the news the mitch mcconnell's update. >> this is a bill that is more radical than people realize. it includes something proposed by ted cruz. what it would do. it would allow an insurer selling at least a couple obamacare compliant programs plans you have to do under obamacare sell to healthy people at the same rates they they can plans that did not do g that that preexisted against
preexisting conditions for for measurement or pregnancy or for emergency room visits. you'll segment the market into sick people sort of shuffled into the obamacare complaint plans they will be just for the sick and subsidies to make them affordable maybe. you'll have everybody else in this basically completely unregulated insurance market. and when you look at that it's a return to the bad old days of health care, the bad old days when instead of competing on cost and quality insurers competeden who was better at getting healthy people to sign up keeping sick people out. so that's now the bill they have. it violates all kind of promising donald trump said in may that whatever bill he signed had to have protection for preexisting conditions. this doesn't. we'll see if republicans believe what they've been saying being signed up on the preexisting conditions protections. >> ezra they have- the cruz idea is to make sure that the companies are selling plans that
-- that do allow people with preexisting conditions but it's not saying anything about how much they'll cost. and it's allowing the company at the same time to sell much, much cheaper plans and so that undermines the. >> right. >> the offer of coverage for preexisting conditions. >> right what they're trying to do is say they are keeping these regulations while gutting everything that makes them work. you need everybody in the same market for these regulations to work. if what you do is you have -- let's say you have four plans one has to sell to anybody even somebody who is sick and the other three do not. so what happens is all the sick people who can't get coverage in the other three go into the one plan called plan a plan a becomes very expensive because it is full of sick people. there are subsidies for the sick people to make to work for them but then people kind of sick but not so sick they scant afford process meanwhile all the healthy people at least the ones getting coverage are in the other plans because plan a is incredibly expensive. now what you have a dumping
ground for the sick and the old then you have the other plans and what these plans do is try to make it impossible for anybody who is sick to sign up. the reason this is problematic even if you subsidize the plan for the sick what you end up with is this big drop in the middle because health is not a binary thing you're not just sick or not sick. you could have been sick some time ago and you feel healthy now but no one will insure you to a low cost because you had a condition done in you could have aermgs depression. could be a young woman and they expect you demographically to get pregnant so they charge you a higher rate 37 what you end up with the graduation is risk management and health insurance becomes expensive and unafford shallable for the people need going. that's on top of the plan like the last plan the previous iteration of the senate bill has subsidies completely sin sufficient end with with poor people in plan was $6,000 ductables. those not a bill designed to
cover. it's a bill designed to not cover. in way politicly salable for republicans. >> and the bill is no doubt going to have a very rough day some time next week when a new cbo score comes out. >> the cbo report i expect is going to be devastating. you never know but there's no reason to think oisz right now the bill has two firm nos susan collins said she won't the sign on because the medicaid cuts and rand paul won't either. if they lose one more person the bill is deed. >> thank you ezra. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now.
and if it is thursday, must be paris. the trumps are guests of the french and the city of lights. if you watched the coverage today with no sound, it was pretty straight forward, president stuff. except perhaps an odd clingy moment between our president and their first lady, with the sound on, the day was more striking. president trump who has savaged paris in the past, was, effusi, the presidents a generation away in age and world apart in culture. looked like great friends including dinner in the eiffel tower. the other sound you would have