tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 14, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PDT
this is man we elected president. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. now that there's evidence that there was at the least attempted collusion between the trump campaign and russia, they are shifting to another argument. collusion is fine. everybody does it. the white house fuming over the news that his son and son-in-law met last summer to try to collaborate on defeating hillary clinton. today during a trip to paris, the president made his first public comments on the controversy. >> i think from a practical standpoint, most people would have taken that meeting. it is called opposition research or even research into your point. i've had many people, i've only been in politics two years. i've had many people call up and say oh, gee, we have information
this foorkt or this person. or frankly, hillary. that's very standard in politics. politics is not the nicest business in the world but it is very standard. where they have information and you take information. >> political professionals from across the ideological spectrum say that's not true. they would never accept dirt on an point. in one famous incident, the gore campaign received a mysterious copy of the bush campaign's debate prep materials which could have given their candidate an advantage and they immediately called the fbi to report i. some say it did you have matter whether the trump campaign got anything from the russian lawyer. that he broke the law just by taking meeting. on the way to france, on a conversation, the president pointed pout treason is off the table. when they say treason, do you
know what that is? that's julius and etss he will rosenberg for giving the atomic bol. many of you know don. he is a good boy, a good kid. he is 39 years old, just ten days younger than french president macron. in the coming days, trump junior may get another chance to explain the e-mail. republican chuck grassley, you remember diane feinstein, both say they want the president's son to testify under oath as soon as next week and they may be willing to use their subpoena power to make it happened. the person who suffered the most damage is probably his brother-in-law jared kushner. we now know definitively that this meeting last summer with the russian lawyer was one of three meetings with russian nationals last year chflt
kushner failed to disclose on security forms under penalty of perjury. one, setting up away from the prying eyes of u.s. intelligence. and the other the head of the sanctioned bank. kushner had to revise the forms and later confirmed by nbc news, he supplemented the list of foreign contacts three times, adding more than 100 names. joining me, member of the house say this is not a big deal. most people would take the. >> what a trajectory even got down. you look at where this started. the president nld no russia. no collusion. certainly the confronted with they will. they've had to acknowledge them.
now where we're at, the president saying so what. that's what politics is. hillary would have been worse. we were going to make america great. it is quite sickening, his view. i think gotten much worse. i hope people at home care and it is costing us everything. >> if people understand that the president's very, very disturbing view of politics, cheat at all costs srgs costing us everything. grid locked washington. the ability to stand up for jobs, health care, kids, democracy, they understand that because he has this view, it is hurting them. i think that republicans in congress will finally care too,, and be the check that we need them to be. >> do you believe the president of the united states when he says he didn't know about the meeting or the e-mail? >> based on what he said about wiretapping him, james comey's tapes, i don't.
unless what he says is verified, i'm inclined not to believe him. >> jared kushner has been caught filling out an fs-86 form that is obviously woefully incomplete. there are calls to block his security clearance. although that's ultimately a decision made by the president of the united states. what is your view? >> the president is presiding over our country. i don't want to be focused too much on security clearances. the president has to take responsibility or we need to hold him accountable by a thoughtful and aggressive use of the subpoena process in congress. >> were you surprised by the appearance of this e-mail? >> no. >> i would have been more surprised if we found out they were e-mailing with representatives from another country.
this brings into focus the constellation of contacts that the trump campaign had with russia. now they all make a lot more sense. >> are we going to learn more about this? >> i think we would tell the american people whether these were all coincidences, and just a mere attempt to work the russians or whether these contacts converged with an organized campaign and interfere in the election. >> there's been the issue of jeff sessions who turned over a redacted sf-86 form before an asterisk that he didn't include anyone in his capacity. >> he has failed to disclose contacts, even if he thinks he should disclose them in an official capacity, i think to just get rid of the idea that he hand been forthcoming, he should have disclosed every contact
he's in the last five years with russians or other foreigners, it is too bad that he's taken that position. >> what is your understanding of the time line? it seems to me crucial and important. given the bombshell of what we've learned in the laugh three days between mueller's investigation, the senate intel committee's investigation. is there an urgency? >> it is moving very, very fast. we want to make sure we're responsible with the pace that it is moving. we don't want to be as irresponsible with the facts as the president has been. that means being in the house to conduct our own honest investigation. that can corroborate or repudiate the evidence that's out there. i do hope in short order, we can tell the american people what happened. whether anyone worked the russians, and then put the reforms in place so this never happens again.
again, the cost of all this chaos has been our ability to do the work that people in our district sent us to do. it is just grinding this country to a halt. >> do you learn new things every week? do you feel like you're receiving a steady stream of what actually, difinitively happened. >> without even telling you if the president would delete all the classified information, i think the american people have enough information to know that they attempted on work the russians and then president win an election. >> joining me now, political analyst josh earnest, former white house press secretary, and the former attorney with the justice department's national security division.
>> if someone comes waving around the promise of dirt, you take the meeting. >> i began my career in opposition research. the first several years i was involved in politics i was a low level junior research staffer. that included on a wide variety of campaigns. i've never heard of anybody agreeing to meet with any sort of foreigner to obtain dirt on their point. let let a kaenlt lawyer, or an australian lawyer. we're talking about an adversary of the united states. that is to influence our election. and look, i'll no legal expert but i think it is totally bogus to suggest that it was okay because they didn't actually obtain any useful information. that's a pretty lame excuse. and one that i just don't think a lot of people will buy. >> i want to talk about a piece you wrote.
it is not don junior. he is the one beg interviewed. there are three people. kushner has some real legal problems. you wrote this piece and i think it is important to remember the reporting on this. how to understand kushner's back channel. when that story came out that he snuck kislyak in. that decision looks very different and far more incriminating in lightest fact there was an e-mail sitting in his in box saying the russian government wants to get your father-in-law elected. >> it does. what is important is that each of these meetings that comes to light over time. they shouldn't be isolated events.
their the three meetings you've described so far, and the back channel meeting with kislyak. the purpose of it as it was reported was to have a way of communicating with the russian government in a way that presumably would be not discoverable by the u.s. government's intelligence community. so now we have another report. the report of the meeting with the russian lawyer that was done by the campaign. it is not believable that they didn't understand that multiple meetings with russian government officials, russian government representative. what the e-mails show, the statement says there was, the effort was just part of the russian government's support for
will trump so what intention was conducting that trump officials were either facilitating, supporting, cooperating with, or having knowledge of. >> how surprised are you by, a, the exist ten of this e-mail, and b, the argument that the white house and the president of the united states has documented, it is not a big deal. i think after reading the new story about it, disappointed that we're surprised about what has transpired. in some ways, it is utterly predictable. is it surprising that there's somebody with close ties to the kremlin trying to help? we understand the operations they've already taken tomorrow work with twleeks facilitate the release of e-mails.
we know there is a broad range effort to benefit trump. that's open and shut. at this point, the white house doesn't really have much credibility in trying to explain away these things as they emerge. that's why it is political malpractice that the trump campaign and the trump operation continues to subject themselves to this drip, drip, drip situation. at what point do they say, it is not helping our case to try to hide this information. it is getting out. let's just put it out and be honest with the american people. that would require the underlying facts. if they did engage in something massively incriminating, then they are correct to cover it up.
the sopgs to expose themselves. >> that is the option. right now, the slow drip, drip, drip, is not playing out well. the president is by all accounts, frustrated by this whole thing. if they are innocent, that would be the obvious thing to do. each day this goes by. each day there is a new revelation, it gets worse. >> i've talked about the legal peril that jared kushner finds himself in. either he has a giant memory problem that he should have examined or that he has hired massively incompetent lawyers, i don't think that's true. or he's been hiding things from his lawyers. >> with almost to the fs-86, there are either more contacts
with government officials, arrest more for whatever reason he didn't necessarily include. his cooperation with his lawyers, it is hard to say. this story is not about jared kushner and his sf 86. it is about whether he understood significance with all the meetings with the government officials and whether as the e-mails from don jr. indicate, whether or not the trump campaign, that would be paul manafort, don junior, everyone else, understood what the russian government was doing and cooperated in some way. it begs the question, what was that other support that the russian government was providing to them?
that's why xfinity mobile comes with your internet. you get up to 5 lines of talk and text at no extra cost. [ laughing ] so all you pay for is data. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. call or go to xfinitymobile.com introducing xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. what's the conclusion? collusion? no. we don't have that yet. i see illusion and delusion. so just so we're clear. four words. conclusion, collusion, no. illusion, delusion, yes. >> everyone is having a little fun with kellyanne conway's appearance on fox news last night. did you catch what she said? what's the conclusion? collusion, no. we don't have that yet. huh? we don't have that yet? do you know why she said that yet? because she has no way to know what will come out next. think for a sbekd the version of
events the white house wants us to believe. we know for several years, the oligarch and his son emin cultivated a friendship with trump's family. when trump becomes the gop nominee, that putin aligned oligarch through a trusted intermediary offers donald trump jr. damaging information about hillary clinton from the russian government. information he says is part of a russian government effort to help trump win the election. trump junior arranges a meeting with a person he is told is a russian government lawyer and attends with two other aides. but the meeting, they insist, is a dud. no dirt on hillary. just some boring adoption and sanctions talk. then according to the official version of the story we're supposed to believe, this is crucial. no one did anything else. they just dropped the whole thing. think about whether you believe
that happened. would it mean despite being told there was a russian government aide in the campaign, trump just moved on. even after reports came out weeks later of the russians helping the trump campaign. it would mean that none of the three trump aardsma who attended the meeting bothered to mention it to the future president even though they'd been told. everyone just forgot about that one crazy time when trump's contacts in russia forgot to discuss it. joining me now, michael isikoff who just broke a story a few minutes ago that according to two sources, trump lawyers were informed of the e-mails back in june.
>> the president has said a couple times now this week that he only learned about the russia meeting in the last couple days. in fact as i'm reporting, his lawyers, the chief lawyer in the russia investigation, and allen garden, they are both informed about the meeting in the third week in june. this is shortly after they are discovered by jared kushner's lawyers. jared kushner revises his security clearance form. sf 86 for the second time on june 21st. he is interviewed by the fbi for the second time on june 23rd. and the president's lawyers are informed about this.
what we don't know was whether they alerted the president. it certainly raises questions that he only learned about this in the last couple days. >> do you find it plausible that they wouldn't have notified the president? >> i find it not it was a meeting designed to help elect donald trump and i believe they would have reported it to him. >> this string of events what is your reaction to this as someone who investigated a big cover up, the biggest one in history. they did all sorts of crazy things that you can hardly believe they did.
what is your reare action -- your resnacks. >> i see deja vu. all the funny words we used during watergate when we talked about the drip, drip, drip, and how bad it is that. follow the money. the cover-up is worse than the crime. in this case, it may be the crime it may be using a foreign at adversary. there are a lot of things that make me really suspicious. i think we've gone i don't understand the smoking gun. it is a smoking cannon. i believe we're there.
it is nonsense when we say, they didn't get anything. first of all, we don't know if they didn't. secretary. they did have an influence on when it was released and third of all. and i'm attempted murder then. >> part of what i think is so important when we're evaluating the story and it is something you've done reporting on, you can imagine a scenario, this is coming from this father and son who are connected. there's a relationship there. they're friends. professional associates. they've spent time together. this idea that there was a meeting and then no follow-up is
a little hard to swallow. >> they were business partners of the trump organization and donald trump going back to 2013. as it happens, i happen to have interviewed rob goldstone several months ago before i had any idea he would become a figure of major national attention. he is the former tabloid reporter. music, publicist. and i wanted to know more about what took place during the miss universe pageant in 2013. and he was very affable. very chatty. and recanted about how at that pageant, the trump and agalarov reached a business deal to build a trump tower in moscow. a formal letter of intent was
signed. donald trump jr. was put in charge of the project. and eadvantagea trump flew over in 2016. so these are people who the trumps new very well. so when they get this e-mail, when donald trump jr. gets this e-mail from rob goldstone, it is more than something coming over. it is coming from a representative of their business partners. >> and jill, just to remember the time line. you have the possible, the e-mails indicate there was actually a phone call between emin and don junior. you have a possible phone call and trump promises a major speech from the clintons. and the 30,000 e-mails the thing i want to see is the e-mails
afterwards. >> first we don't know that which e-mails he released. i want his full chain. i want his computer and to find out what all the don't forget in that very first e-mail, he said, i love it. especially later in the summer. that's when the russians great destruction it this is something we need to follow. it looks the me like they got something. which was, you're right. we want the ones that came after. >> do you think that goldstone
will find himself in the center of this probe? >> it is hard to see how this can be investigated without questioning goldstone. he is the one making the assertions that this is coming from the russian government. and this is damaging information about hillary clinton. what was his baser? that leads to emin agalarov, who was his client, and the senior agalarov in agalarovs are quite close to the kremlin. agalarov was known as putin's builder for the massive
construction projects he had built for the kremlin. and had gotten an award directly from president putin just about a week and a half before that miss universe pageant. ahead, we finally found out what was in the second secret health care bill. there's one senator who could hold a key to killing the bill.
one of the most remarkable things we as a country, at least as a political entity, seem to have gotten past is the "access hollywood" tape. trump's extremely lewd comments about women sparked plenty of outrage but in the end it didn't matter, outer didn't matter enough. the country still elected him. now he's the man who represents the united states of america around the world. so today no one should be surprised when the president met the first lady of france, brigitte macron, he commented about her body. >> that was the president of the united states ogling the first lady of france.
the old one. one change backed by ted cruz severely weakens protections for people with pre-existing conditions. another is scaling back the size of the tax cut for the wealthy. but the bill still includes medicaid cuts like those that help sink the bill in june. now senate majority leader mitch mick couldn't can only afford to lose two republican votes and he has already hit that limit because rand paul won't vote for it because it doesn't go far enough to repeal the affordable care act. and from the other sider, susan collins also says she's out. >> is there anything the republican leadership can do to get to you vote yes for this bill? >> certainly there are steps that could be taken that they would be major overhauls at the legislation. for example, if the provisions completely overhaul the bill, that would be a great step in the right direction.
>> i would not at this point unless there are substantial changes in the bill. >> she now has to corral every single other senator into voting for this bill, including the so-called moderates who balked at the last version. that includes lisa murkowski, shelley moore capito, rob portman and dean heller. dean heller surprised a lot of people. he said i cannot support there bill and largely focused on the medicaid cuts. where do you think he is now?
>> he is saying he is undecided and the motion to proceed. he is saying that he will read the bill this weekend. but he knows what's in the bill just as you and i know what's in the bill. as you mentioned, it is not much change. he is on the record firmly saying that he is not going to affect the 200,000 plus nevadan who's were covered under the medicaid expansion. and as you know, brian sandoval, his friend and the governor was the first republican governor to expand medicaid. they stood together at a press conference about two weeks ago and said the same thing. they said oppose this bill if it is going to kick these people off medicaid, and heller went further saying he will not support a bill that kicks tens of millions of americans off health car and he does not appreciate the lying, he used that word. he is so far out there, if he flips on this, it will be a real problem for him. >> here's what you said. you said there's zero chance that sandoval is against he the
bill. the core of the objection of the medicaid cuts, the huge part of what the bill is doing budget aeroly. >> you still want -- >> we're in constant conversation. he is going to vote. i've said the 210,000 people. >> he is the only republican up in the senate in a hillary clinton state in 2018. what is he looking at politically? >> he is in big trouble. i should say that he's been in big trouble before and he has survived. he won by 12,000 votes in 2012 when he never should have won in a year in which obama won the state by six points. he's gotten whip sawed.
he said repeatedly before that press conference that he needed to talk to the governor. whatever the governor says is what i'll do. he acceded his vote. you saw what he said. there is no way that sandoval can come out and support the bill as it exists now. so that's a real problem for him. heller's numbers are worse than nevada. his problem is that even if the political us which is that he can't change. in nevada, the primary is in june. the turn out is very low. the base will turn out. and you have folks like you. you went out there saying, if heller votes no, he will hemorrhage is base and he is in big trouble. i think he who is the potential to lose. it is usually around 40% turnout.
so you can imagine what percentage of that is the republican base that could be enraged. we're talking on july 13, 2017, for an election that takes place a little ublds a year from now. he has no safe harbor here. >> a great point. he has someone by the nail of sheldon adelson, the billionaire nevadan gop donor who he's pretty close to and he's given a lot of money who wants him to vote yes. >> both, and steve wynn, happens to be the republican national committee's finance chairman now, have both of them voting for the bill. either because they are ideologically supportive of what's going on. steve wynn has said the obamacare was the worst thing ever happened in america. it may be a coincidence that both of those gentlemen stab to get a lot of money saved if this obamacare is repealed.
they are both telling rt heller to vote that way. this is a choice between donors and 200,000 people on medicaid. and i don't know where heller is in his heart. i never tried to read into politicians' hearts. it is clear what he has said publicly, if he votes for this bill, and it still contains the medicaid cuts, that will be a devastating proposition for him. >> nevadans, if you care strongly about this bill, you either want to see it or you don't. thanks for joining me. coming up from there was no collusion to collusion isn't illegal to it definitely wasn't treason. we'll talk about lowering expectations. plus, the president tells us what a lot of people don't know. thanks for loading, sweetie.
thing one tonight. another episode of american history brought to you by president trump. this time the revolution war which is being recognized more and more. >> france is america's first and oldest ally. a lot of people don't know that. france helped us secure our independence. a lot of people forget. >> actually, a lot of people know that most basic part of america's founding and haven't forgotten it. but this is not the first time that trump has suggested a lot of people don't know something that pretty much everyone knows. that's thing two in 60 seconds.
you know when you find out something new and you're really excited to share it and you think you might be the only person who knows about it? >> people don't realize, you know, the civil war. you think about it, why? people don't ask that question. >> nobody knew that health care could be so complicated. >> people don't realize, we are an unbelievably divided country. >> people don't know this about iraq but they have among the largest oil reserves in the
world. >> what many don't know is southern california is a -- south korea is a major trading partner italy is one of our largest trading partner. a lot of people don't know that. >> so few people remember. but republicans are the party of abraham lincoln. >> at love. people don't realize that abraham lincoln. >> most people don't know he was a republican. >> people forget. >> a lot of people don't know that. >> a lot of people don't know that.
if the russian kgb chief is talking to paul manafort and the chief says you know i got this dirt here that says hillary clinton was this or that -- >> but this's no evidence any way. >> and paul manafort says next wednesday i want you to release that. that would be great for us. i don't know if that's the crime at all. >> collusion is not a crime. only an anti-trust law. you can collude all you want with a foreign government in an election. there's no such statute. >> and they might say as a trump campaign representative, wow you have that? tell the american people the truth. let them see it themselves. is that a crime to release it, to show the truth, to show damaging information. >> collusion, while it's alarming and highly inappropriate for the trump campaign of which there's no evidence of colluding with the russians, it's not a crime. >> of course that was before the e-mails came out showing that donald trump jr., paul manafort and jared kushner sought to
collude with the russian government to elect president trump. well the supporters had been shopping their defense. >> do i think it's appropriate? i think it would have been the same thing. it's opposition research. anybody that's been in an election you're always looking to get the upper hand. if somebody comes to us and says we've got information on an opponent, yeah i think that's an appropriate thing to do. >> was that illegal? it is a material reality of what they did was illegal? we'll get to the facts on that. you can take information from anyone. >> i do think this. i think from a practical standpoint most people would have taken that meeting. it's called opposition research or even research into your opponent. and i think it's a meeting that most people many in politics would have take. >> narrator: everybody does it, so says president trump and his defenders, even though it is the
means of acquiring that information at the source, that's the real issue. joining me now, joy reid. lawrence wright, pulitzer prize writer, a fantastic new piece called "america's future in texas." joy, let me start with you. we're watching the goal posts being moved in real time. some say it's like watching the stadium be moved. this is the something they're now sending. so what basically, right? >> it's remarkable to watch the republican party that had had this ethic that we had to stand behind regimes like the apartheid south africa. it was so important to keep russia awear from spheres of influence that was important to us that we had to support regimes like that to now drift to it's fine. substitute iran for russia. iran wants to help out the 2020 election campaign of donald trump and iran has some juicy information on its opponent. is that okay? i guess so.
>> lawrence, your piece which is an amazing look at this transformation of texas politics is about the texas gop but also about the sort of for lack of a better word, trumpzation of all politics. how is this playing in texas, would be my first question. >> well, you know, when trump was running there were -- i didn't know any republicans in texas who supported him. and now they all do. so you know, i suppose it's playing okay for the trump business of. you know, this is their republican leader they've been looking for a long time. they finally have a republican leader in the white house. it is not the one they would have chosen but that's the one they've got. >> one of the things that comes through in your piece, there's
this anti-dch anti-trump, right? so the idea that if you don't trust the media and you don't trust the democrats, you don't trust liberals, you don't trust these sort of bastians of your enemy, then whatever they say, whatever evidence they show is not going to penetrate. >> well, in texas, at least, there's always been a distrust of liberal -- >> totally. >> -- media. so it's not really ringing a different bell here. i think that there's a sense of demoralization and alienation of the rest of the country that's always been true. but ump trump, suddenly the trump administration seems to be endorsing a lot of the policies that texas lawmakers are advocating. there's a sense at last that there's a unity -- >> a champion. >> -- between what texas wants and what the trump administration is sponsoring. >> we're seeing the culmination
of a very long project and a long trends of conservatism and what they call the mainstream media or the liberal media. at the point it gets to the point that black and white an e-mail that says do you want to collude with the russian government in this election. >> yeah. >> doesn't, you know, doesn't penetrate or change people's minds. >> almost con toonishly bad. let's see if we can write an e-mail that's so blatantly obvious that nobody is going to go for this and they put in the crown prosecutor, which is ridiculous. they don't have a czar. trump saw the trends and took advantage of it. this is a republican party built on persecution, a persecution complex for for than 40 years,
almost 50 years going back to being persecuted by the world. donald trump gets that, gets them. he's figured it out. he can make them accept anything. and not only can he make the base of the republican party accept literally anything, i literally go back to if he would like to collude with iran next please, they would accept anything, not only would the voters so would the elected officials. he's cowed the official of the republican party, cowed the speaker of the house. they all are now for collusion. >> and what's so remarkable about that, to lawrence, to your piece in texas, is that texas was the sort of home of never trumpism on the right. it was the place that kind of rebelled against this. in some ways the most fully. it's a very developed robust kind of conservative politics in texas which with tax nn their own way. >> if texas you see what's happening with the national party.
the democrats are sidelined in texas as they are nationally. u there's really two parties uncomfortably married together. and you have the more moderate business oriented wing which in texas is represented by the speak are of the house, joe strauss. and then you have these social and cultural conservatives like dan patrick and our governor who is our lieutenant governor and greg abbott our governor. and they're pushing an entirely different agenda that is about abortion and anti-immigration and homosexuals. and this is what happens in texas tends to percolate up into national politics. >> yes. >> and what -- i guess the point of the article is this is what's coming. >> one of the things that i've come to view is that just in the last three days i've thought about the repercussions. there's not going to be any -- there will be no pin drop
moment. >> no. >> it's either going to have to play out politically in terms of democrats taking the house or charges or things like that. but there's not going to be a moment, right? >> i've been saying -- >> you've said that for a long time. >> there are no heros. there will be no heros. the only way this changes is if democrats take the house. the end. >> political control is ultimately -- >> if the republicans control the house and the senate, donald trump are collude in plain sight and laughing about it because yes he can get away with anything. >> do you think ultimately that this -- there's a sort of question about do people care about this. >> yeah. >> and i think it's a fair question. when you think about the politics of it, it's a separate question of should it be substantively pursued. but there is a degree that i can imagine it feels remote to a lot of voters. >> i've talked to trump voters who dismiss it. the reality is if you're a republican base voter right now, you're so cloistered in the media that you trust.
if the media you trust doesn't tell you what's important, then it isn't important to you. they are telling you ignore. >> joy reid, lawrence wright, thank you. that is all in for this evening. good evening, rachel. >> thank you. much appreciate it. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. >> tonight donald trump sans by his son calls him a good boy and says most people would have agreed to the is a meepgt where the refreshen was peddling dirt. >> and jared kushner wants to push back harder on the negative news coverage including a move to get the cable news networks to change graskt. >> is trump going to invite putin to the white house after putin corrupted the the race for the white house? the 11th hour begins now." >> and good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. day 175 of the tru