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tv   MSNBC Live With Alex Witt  MSNBC  July 15, 2017 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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hey there, good day, everyone. i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york where it is high noon in the east, it's 9:00 a.m. out west. we begin with new details on the trump administration's efforts to push senate republicans on the health care bill. omb director mill mulvaney and tom price are both in rhode island today speaking with governors in the hope they would sway gop senators who have been critical of the bill. that's because with two of them opposed to this new version, they cannot afford to lose another. their efforts come amid another setback, though. two major insurers are asking mcconnell to remove senator cruz's amendment which would allow insurers to sell cheaper
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plans with fewer benefits. america's health insurance plans and the blue cross blue shield association say it is unworkable in any form. debbie dingell is urging her colleagues to break their promise of repealing and replacing obamacare. >> i have a moral responsibility that every american has got a right to affordable quality health care. and medicaid is the only tool out there to help many people. >> also today, new reaction from a republican lawmaker on the heightened scrutiny surrounding donald trump jr.'s meeting with the russian lawyer. here's what congressman leonard lance told me this morning. >> should request that donald trump jr. and others, paul manafort, for example, come before the congress. >> but president trump's personal legal team is downplaying the meeting and suggesting the campaign is a victim of a setup. here's trump attorney jay
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sekulow in an interview last night. >> he had not even mentioned this meeting to his father. and why would he, nothing transpired at that meeting so there was nothing to discuss. this was a setup to do what? to really get magnitsky act so i think the whole thing was a put-up to begin with. >> we're learning more about the meeting with donald trump jr. and a russian lawyer, this on june 9th of last year. nbc news was first to report that a russian-american lobbyist was also at that meeting. joining me now, ken dilanian. big welcome back to the broadcast, ken. let's talk first about this lobbyist. who is he and what do we know about him? >> his name is rinet akmetshin and he was born in russia. he did a stint in a kgb unit that was hunting for spies but he was an enlisted person. it's not accurate to call him an
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intelligence officer. he moved to the united states, caught u.s. citizenship and became a rather well-heeled lobbyist in washington. but he doesn't represent little sisters of the poor or amazon, he's representing often russian oligarchs. not always in the interest of vladimir putin, sometimes on the other side but he has been accused in federal court papers of orchestrating a hacking campaign in a corporate espionage case on behalf of a russian billionaire. he denies that and the accusations were withdrawn. so he's a colorful character, operates in the shadows. his presence at this meeting, which was only revealed yesterday by nbc news, is really -- is significant and probably will be viewed with some scrutiny by investigators. >> okay. as you know also in the room we have been reporting that a lawyer, natalia veselnitskaya who just days later ended up in the front row of a house foreign affairs committee meeting, this as witnesses talked about u.s. sanctions about her country.
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what more can you tell us about her? >> well, she has been working with rinet on this lobbying campaign against what is called the magnitsky act, a set of sanctions against russian human rights violators and it goes back to a story about what happened to a particular person. they argue that this story is false. it's been a long-running ballots that went into court in new york and they have been working together on this. and that's actually what they say they came to trump tower to talk to the trump team about. but of course that doesn't really square with the e-mails that we saw from rob goldstone promising derogatory information about hillary clinton, which led to the meeting being set up. >> so do we know if trump junior was shown any documents, if he was given any documents, took away documents from the meeting? >> the lawyer has told nbc news that she brought with her a two-page summary of these allegations about the magnitsky act and included in that were some -- was some information about contributions that she thought were questionable to the democratic national committee. she didn't say whether she left
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it there or just showed it to the trump team. but by her account and the trump team's account they didn't find it very interesting or significant. >> all right, ken, thank you very much for the setup. on the heels of that let's bring in democratic congressman jim hines of connecticut. always good to have you here, congressman. you just heard what ken was talking about, the documents that were brought to the meeting. what do you know about them and their significance? >> well, we don't know a lot about them yet. you know, we haven't seen them, at least on the congressional side. it's possible, of course, that the fbi investigation has gone in that direction, but we haven't seen them. but this points to a larger question of what else happened. was thering fe follow-up or connections made, was information offered in the future. our job just got harder because while the white house's credibility and the trump campaign's credibility wasn't high to begin with, this is the episode that crystallizes as we saw the evolving story of the white house and of donald trump
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jr. from a meeting that, you know, was just about american adoptions of russian children to son of a gun, it turns out that the meeting was set up in order to get information that is derogatory on clinton from people that were explicitly from the russian government. and so, you know, sadly those of us charged with investigating this now and the american public can take absolutely nothing that the president's campaign or the president's people or the president's family take seriously, so we've got work to do to figure out what the follow-up from this meeting was. >> let's say documents were handed over and kept by donald trump jr., anyone else who was in on behalf of the trump campaign at that meeting. how significant is that? does it matter the action of taking documents from potentially members of a foreign government or people that may be speaking on behalf of if the direction goes that way, does it matter content? how does this play out? >> well, i think it matters in two ways. one is political or moral, which
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is, you know, we've been hearing now for almost six months that there was no -- first of all, it started in january with there was no contact. and then it moved to after it turned out that the attorney general and paul manafort and any number of others had contact with the russians, it turned out there was no collusion and the president said there's no evidence of collusion. now his own son provided evidence of collusion. that is to say he went into a room anticipating working with the russians to get derogatory information on hillary clinton. so, you know, just from a standpoint of, my gosh, how far we've come, yes, there was collusion, this meeting is significant. the other big question is did any of this violate the law. and that's a much more difficult question. if the campaign took something of value from a foreign power, that would be possibly a violation of the law. if there was an explicit plan to defraud the american public, that of course would be a violation of the law.
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we don't know if that occurred, which is why in some sense the investigation has gone into hyperdrive or something because we're not actually sort of trying to figure out whether there were questionable contacts between russia and the trump campaign, we're now today trying to figure out what came out of those contacts. >> well, here's what house minority leader nancy pelosi said about these latest revelations. let's take a listen. >> earlier this week we saw cold, hard evidence that the trump administration and the trump family have eagerly intended to collude with russia. >> so i want to point out her use of the word "intent." there is a big difference between intent and actual collusion. so is there still no solid evidence of collusion? >> well, what we know from donald trump jr.'s own e-mail was that he knew that the russians were going to, and there was a connection to the russian government. there was the quotation of the crown prosecutor. now, that was a mistake, the russians don't have a crown
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prosecutor, but there was a clear indication that this was information developed by the russian government and he said if this is what it appears to be, i like it. and he even speculated and said particularly if we can use it later in the summer, that is to say closer to the campaign. so, you know, i suppose we could have a long national conversation about the definition of collusion, but, you know, the president's son clearly knew he was getting derogatory information from a hostile foreign power and laid out a timetable to use it. in my mind that's collusion. whether it's illegal or not, of course remember, collusion is not a legal term. whether it is illegal or not, that is something for both the justice department and the congress to figure out. >> okay. i know that former trump campaign staffer michael todcap testified yesterday. >> i was not present for that. this was not a formal hearing, simply a deposition and we are
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doing many of these depositions, as is the senate investigator, so i wasn't in the room so i can't comment on what occurred. frankly if i was in the room, we're really trying to keep this investigation from spilling out so that people who come and talk to us can have some confidence what they say will not be on the news the next day. >> what about some of the democrats that are calling for jared kushner to be fired or resign or have his security clearance revoked after revising his federal security form for not once, not twice, the third time, adding another 100 foreign contacts. where do you stand on this issue? do you take any comfort in the fact that he at least did ultimately update his disclosures? >> well, you know, this is a repeated pattern from everyone in this administration. no one comes forward with the truth until somebody else, "the new york times" or usually a media outlet comes forward and says actually, attorney general sessions, what you told the senate is not true, you did meet with ambassador kislyak and then
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we get a revised disclosure and this has happened with jared kushner as well. you know, at a minimum this is just, you know, gross negligence with respect to the kind of care and diligence that somebody should use for these sorts of disclosures. by the way, it's hurting them more than anybody else. this story has dragged on for months because of exactly this act. but i would say and i just make this observation to you, alex. anybody who is senior in the cia or the nsa or in the military that did with their it's called an sf-86 form, with that form that you use to get a top secret security clearance, anybody in the government who treated the sf-86 the way jared kushner has done, not only would that individual not get a security clearance, there's a good chance that individual would lose their job. so i hope the white house will reflect on that. >> all right. you might have missed that intel committee deposition yesterday because i know that you introduced a bill on congress on thursday and we're probably following up on that. it's going to require the white house to hold at least two
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on-camera press briefings every week. are you expecting a fight from republicans over this? >> oh, of course. i'm not expecting a fight, i'm expecting that they will totally ignore this piece of legislation. you know, we haven't reached the point, and this is worthy of some discussion. we haven't reached the point, leonard lance and a few others notwithstanding who have courageously taken a stand that i think is consistent with the defense of our democracy and the institutions that make our democracy possible. look, this administration from the time they started campaigning and the president, then the candidate using rallies to single out members of the media and to urge, you know, to urge indirectly to urge violence against members of the media through his statements that the media is the enemy of the american people, i'm an elected official. the media can be annoying, i get it. sometimes they get stories wrong. often when they do, they correct those stories. but the media is an absolutely essential part of holding people like me and people like the president, to holding our feet to the fire. if you do what the president and his people are doing right now,
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which is to say no cameras, we're not going to do many briefings, we're down to like zero or one briefing a week. the last several presidents had four and five briefings a week. what happens is the american people love donald trump or hate donald trump, you don't know what he's doing. you don't know what his people are thinking and that does not work in a democracy. >> all right, with that opinion and for many other reasons you're always welcome on this broadcast, thank you so much. gauging the mood inside the white house amid the new reports about the russia investigation. ♪
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heidi, first to you. what's the mood like inside the white house? >> i actually spoke with someone who had just gotten off the phone with a senior administration official a couple of days ago and they said it's all about damage control at this point. frankly there's an aspect of this, alex, that we're not covering which is i think some of the people who are most anxious at this point are the national security advisers who are worried about just how distracted the president and his top staff are when they look at hot spots like north korea. that's something that i think is a great worry to them. and what was significant about this week was that you started to see finally some cracks in the republican support on the hill. when you see members like trey gowdy speaking out and saying, you know what, this was a turning point when we learned that donald trump jr. had this meeting because what did we learn? this was a big week. the trump officials actually knew about the russian attempts to help them, that they welcomed it, that they discussed even timing over the summer, that they used that information as
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well. despite whatever happened, whether there was no follow-up or there was follow-up, they did use the information that the russians dumped in the form of wikileaks. it was very effective. at the back end of all of it, mike flynn, at least attempted to reward them by discussing lifting sanctions. >> yeah. well, you make a very good point because regardless of what may have been said, for some it's really the silence is deafening in terms of fewer voices coming to the defense. white house right now. jay, we've got this story about trump junior's meeting completely overshadowing the president's two european trips. some of his aides felt that he had really good days, particularly the day in warsaw, poland, with that scripted speech that he delivered. does it feel like he's just snatching defeat from the throes of victory here? >> not to repeat what heidi said, but certainly in talking to the hill that i've heard from, one of their biggest complaints is that his tweeting and the russia investigation are
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huge distractions to every attempt at legislating that they have had. this week has been by far the worst. you talk to people on the hill and they just say there's nothing that's breaking through, nothing that's getting done and all the focus and all the attention is on this scandal that just keeps going and snowballing. there is a huge sense of frustration. you hear from a lot of republican lawmakers saying, look, why don't you just go find out every contact, go find out every single thing, dump all of this information because this drip, drip, drip that's lasted the entire arc of the presidency is just eating away at every single thing they're trying to do and it's only getting louder and louder and louder. it's better to just clear the air, no matter how bad the story is, let the chips fall where they may and restart and begin a separate conversation about to try to restart the legislative process, restart the political process and then have the investigation ongoing. but if you keep hiding things, if you keep saying, no, no, there's nothing else, there's nothing else and two days later saying earlier this week that no one else was in this meeting, nothing else was happening, then
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all of a sudden we find out that this very prominent russian lobbyist was in the meeting and a couple of other people in the meeting. so as this information drips out, it is so damaging, they just wanting to get it over with. >> what about, heidi, the sense that -- or i guess what the president knew or did not know. of course his attorney, jay sekulow, is saying he did not know anything about this meeting until everything was coming out in the news a couple of days ago. is that widely believed? >> it's not widely believed by democrats. democrats like senator blumenthal speaking out saying it's totally not credible. the challenge here is that the timeline is very damning because we now know, as we match up these data points, that it was not weeks, it was not days, it was hours from when the meeting with the russians was set to when the president started tweeting -- or had his speech, rather, about potentially damaging information about hillary clinton. of course then it never happened and that lines up perfectly with
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what donald trump jr. said which is that they didn't in that meeting have damaging information. the timing of it coming out in the summer after the convention, the timing of wikileaks coming out, their first major dump within hours of the "access hollywood" videotape that was so damaging to then candidate trump. so the timeline itself is very suggestive. now, let me mention one other thing based on my reporting. we know also that donald trump was actually physically present in trump tower the day of that big meeting. not only that, but he had a luncheon and was with paul manafort hours before that meeting. so certainly if he wanted to be briefed, if they considered this an important meeting, he was right there for it to happen. >> do you have a sense of what the president himself is most worried about, jay? >> well, i think his tweets give us a window into what he's most worried about. he's pretty honest about that. but it was interesting that he came back on air force one on the trip to paris in ways -- and spent an hour with the press
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batting away sarah huckabee sanders who was trying to pull him away. let's let the press sleep. no, i want to talk to them. he's had this one step, two steps. he's just railed at how angry he was at the press. but now he's come back in this trip back on air force one and he's back to saying, how is everybody? calling everybody by name and asking about them and seeming very jovial and very happy and very charming. that's a side that the press hasn't seen of him in a very long time. it seems to be that perhaps he's switching strategies. we'll see if this is something that he maintains. >> very interesting timing on this. >> it's definitely different for sure. >> ladies, thanks so much. coming up in our next hour, i'll have the writer behind that red handed "time" cover story on donald trump jr. noo
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happening now, day two of an organized march against the national rifle association.
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mike is in washington covering this story for us. mike, what's it like out there? >> reporter: alex, it's a little bit hot but that's nothing new for these marchers, about 300 of them. the march is just dissipating now. we're in downtown washington outside the department of justice right on pennsylvania avenue. but these marchers, between 300 and 150, the number fluctuated, began in fairfax, virginia. about 18.6 miles away they tell us at the headquarters of the national rifle association. they marched all day yesterday, through all kinds of heat and a violent thunderstorm. arrived here in washington, slept last night in the sanctuary of a church and then began speeches and rally outside of the justice department just this morning. they're angry. they're angry over the philando castile shooting. they believe that he had a gun legally, he was shot by a police officer in minnesota. that's probably the origin of why they went to the nra. they're alarmed over an nra
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well, it's take three for trumpcare. senate republicans are hoping beyond hope that a new revised bill is just the ticket to finally replace obamacare. what's in, what's not and what happens if nothing gets done. >> and the net neutrality debate. a free and open internet is what everyone says they want, so why are trump administration's moves being denounced as the end of the internet as we know it? i'm ali velshi. >> and i'm stephanie ruhle. what a week.
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this week specifically got the air sucked out of it with new revelations suggesting collusion between the trump election campaign and russian government operatives. >> now, sanctions against russia are at the center of donald trump jr.'s controversial meeting last summer. we'll have more on that what means in a few moments. first, it was another big week for our nation's health care. >> it matters. senate republicans have come up with their revisions to their first obamacare replacement bill designed to win over more gop lawmakers. the revisions provide for cheaper, what they call skinny plans, offering narrow insurance coverage that will not cover all essential health benefits. and for the first time, americans would be able to use tax credits to cover catastrophic insurance and tax-free health savings accounts to pay their insurance premiums. meanwhile, massive, massive medicaid cuts are staying in place. ali, the republicans say they're offering americans cheaper choices to pay for health insurance. >> the problem is, as you just
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mentioned, the essential health benefits. let's see if we can show people what they are. these are the things that every obamacare policy had to have. let me put it this way, every insurance policy after obamacare was had to have these things. senator ted cruz has a plan that you can offer something that doesn't cover these. we're creating two tiers of insurance and putting the people who most need it into a big high risk pool. the end result is their premiums will skyrocket, while some people will buy policies for 10 bucks a month or something. >> why is going to be so hard to get this through? specifically medicaid. those massive cuts to medicaid are still in this bill. when republicans go home and don't want to face those town halls, it is because millions of americans now rely on getting their health care through medicaid and the medicaid
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expansion. >> part of the issue here is the republicans really need this bill to go through in order to move on with tax reform, because i've said it before, i'll say it again. this is more of a tax bill than it is a health care bill. there's more in here about savings and tax cuts than there is about health care. >> but if you don't get this done -- >> can't do the tax reform. >> the math doesn't work to get to the tax cuts and we know many people want to get to those. >> lest we forget, the reason republicans are looking to replace obamacare because many of them never tire of saying it is in the throes of a death spiral. is it? >> obamacare is in a total death spiral. >> everyone seems to want to call it death spiral. >> the death spiral is what we see with obamacare right now. >> the death spiral that is obamacare. >> a death spiral. >> death spiral. >> this law is in a death spiral. >> it is a death spiral. >> well, it's time to separate the fact from fiction. for fact sake, is obamacare
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broken? >> republicans are wrong. obamacare is not in a death spiral. the health law's signal achievement has been to reduce the number of americans who don't have health insurance. america's uninsured went from 49 million in 2010 to 28 million in 2016 in large part because of the individual mandate requiring all to get health coverage. millions of america's poor who couldn't afford coverage and millions more with illnesses who couldn't find an insurer to cover them benefited. the vast majority of americans, whether they're on employer plans or medicaid's expanded roles are doing just fine or are better off, but a significant few are worse off. health premiums shot up more than expected, especially in the individual market, affecting 21 million people, which, by the way, represents just 7% of americans with health insurance. an even smaller segment within the individual market, lower to
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middle income americans who aren't poor enough to qualify for medicaid but make too much to receive insurance subsidies and aren't old enough for medicare have been crushed by obamacare premiums. that doesn't make for a death spiral, but it's clear that obamacare's insurance mandate isn't robust enough. the incentive for america's young and healthy to sign up and stay covered has been weak because of ever rising premiums. an estimated two million americans have already dropped their coverage this year alone. they have decided it's cheaper to pay the $695 penalty for an individual or 2.5% of income for a household than to purchase health coverage. that means the risk poolment to share costs across the population has been skewed by a hire proportion of older and sick patients. add to that the secondary problem of insurers pulling out of medical exchanges in some states and you can see why republicans harp on obamacare. but what republicans don't talk about is the uncertainty they're creating trying to repeal the
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law and the threats to cut funding and hold back subsidy payments. those subsidies were promised to insurance companies to ease the pain to their bottom line as they insure less profitable people. now, cutting those would create a death spiral. and you will notice that in the states that handle their own exchanges, there's only been a 2% reduction in the number of insurance companies that are out there. in the states that the federal government runs the exchanges, there's now a 38% reduction in insurers in those states because obamacare is getting squeezed by the federal government. it's not one law, it's a lot of enabling laws that cause people to do things, and this administration is trying to squeeze obamacare so if one wants to make an argument it's a death spiral, a lot of it is on this administration. >> on the baobamascare squeeze flaws in the system, republicans and democrats alike have said it
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needs fixes, it has problems. but if there isn't a bipartisan agreement, we are going to sit here and those obamacare problems are only going to grow more and more exaggerated and that's what we'll be left with. >> i think it's important to remember, and everybody should have remembered this a few years ago an think about it now, 34 out of 35 of the wealthiest countries in the world use universal health care. 58 countries have universal health care. this is a road we were going down. that doesn't mean single payer, it just means everybody is covered. it's very disruptive. it takes a long time. they got it wrong on implementation. we're going to fix it, it's still going to be wrong. it's going to take us a lot of years to get to the right thing. >> i also have to say in the corner of insurance companies, we get so angry at how profitable they are, how much money their ceos make, that's what their motivation is. insurance companies are not public utilities. they are companies motivated by their shareholders and by their bottom line and making profits. if the government wants something different, then they need a different system.
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but you can't blame the insurance company for not caring for americans. their motivation, like it or not, is profitability. >> and remember, some of those health care systems in the world that are universal, some have private health care provided by profitable insurance companies, like in switzerland, some like the united kingdom are just single payer from the government. so a lot of ways to skin this cat. we haven't gotten down that road yet. >> we would love to say all week long all we focused on was providing the best health care for the country, but it wasn't. this week was clearly dominated by revelations of a 2016 meeting between trump campaign officials led by donald trump jr., jared kushner also in the meeting, and a russian lawyer with clear ties to government figures in moscow. trump junior believed the lawyer had damaging information on hillary clinton, but the trump camp says the lawyer only wanted one thing, to discuss american sanctions. well, the u.s. has layers of sanctions against russia, hitting them where it hurts, their wallet, targeting top
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officials linked to russian president vladimir putin as well as broader sanctions preventing u.s. business and investment in russia following interference in the ukraine. well, we know this. vladimir putin has been very focused on reversing these sanctions. money matters. >> right. so there have been two basic big sets of sanctions over the last several years. the first one which many americans heard about this year were the magnitsky act. these were against human rights abuses and they were focused on oligarchs, wealthy russians, and how they could operate with their money. this hit very close to home with vladimir putin because these are people that he's allegedly in business with or helped put into business, but the wealthy people who circle vladimir putin. then the second set were put in after the invasion of crimea and the stuff that went on in ukraine. those are broader sanctions on russian products and investment in russia. >> now, ted cruz this week said when i talk to people in texas, they don't care about russia,
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they care about the united states. here's why it matters. if president trump only wants to talk america first and this country and we don't need to be a global leader, if we decide to step back in terms of global leadership, we will cede power to leaders like russia and china. and do you want autocratic type nations running global trade? i'm going to say no to that. >> the china, for instance, is seen all through africa, a place that america for varying reasons has not been invested in. these african countries need infrastructure, they want investment. the chinese are more than happy to go in there. what you see is people use chinese made phones, they buy chinese made refrigerators, mike waves. >> we're not in the game. >> it's hard to find iphones traveling around africa. you see chinese-made devices and phones. >> when you want to say america first, it's important to keep our position in this globe. coming up next, why do thousands of websites protest against the government this
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week? and america's biggest banker, some say favorite, jamie dimon himself, takes down washington's dysfunction in a rant that you have got to hear for yourself. that's coming up next. these birds once affected by oil
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are heading back home. thanks to dawn, rescue workers only trust dawn, because it's tough on grease yet gentle. i am home, i am home, i am home before fibromyalgia, i was a doer. i was active. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. she also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. woman: for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash,
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and new university partnerships to grow the businesses of tomorrow today. learn more at esd.ny.gov welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." this week thousands of tech companies, websites, online businesses, by the way, including facebook and google, they banded together for a so-called day of action in support of net neutrality. >> they were protesting new moves by president trump's federal communications commission to roll back regulations on the companies that provide internet connections to millions of u.s. customers. he's a question. what exactly is the net neutrality debate about? take a look. >> net neutrality is all about a free and open internet for everyone. that means you have access to whatever website you want, and your internet provider can't
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control the content you see by favoring certain sites over others. think of it this way. each month you pay your electric bill. and you have the freedom to use your electricity any way you choose, lights, air conditioner or tv. imagine if your utility company charged you more to run the tv and less to run the ac. because it made a deal with the air conditioner company but has no deal with the company that makes your tv. or imagine if they told you you can have electricity, but only for your lights. if you want to use it for anything else, you have to buy an additional package. it's kind of like what you get when you buy premium cable to get more channels. net neutrality says the internet needs to be just like electricity. once you pay to get online, you can do whatever you want. obviously many companies and customers like net neutrality. >> the opponents of net neutrality are a wide bunch. a lot of internet activists who
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care about the principles behind an open net. >> big tech companies like amazon or netflix don't want anyone to be restricted from accessing their products. and you don't want to have to pay more to get that access. but small companies also rely on net neutrality. >> the big entertainment companies like netflix could afford to pay the internet service providers to get premiere special access. the problem is for the little guys and the startups, if they can't afford to pay for special premiere access and the user doesn't find it or finds that their content is very slow, then they're not going to succeed. >> so who doesn't support net neutrality? well, the companies who provide the internet connection. comcast, parent company of nbc universal, is one of the top three internet providers in the u.s. >> the opponents of net neutrality are primarily internet service providers who argue that without being able to maximize the profits of providing the internet service, they won't expand and improve and speed up the service.
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>> for their part, internet providers say they have always favored an open and free internet. what they oppose is increased government regulation. >> the real solution to net neutrality is competition. in the short term, however, most of us are stuck with one or two internet providers and there isn't competition. thus net neutrality advocates are asking for protection from the government at least for a while. >> so virtually nobody says that there shouldn't be any regulation of the internet or internet providers. i guess the argument for the internet providers is they went and built this thing, they put the infrastructure in, they built the highway, and then everybody else gets to use it for free. they want to make enough money off of it so they have to cut some deals to do that. >> but jeff jarvis talks about competition breeds innovation and that's great. but if it's all about competition, the biggest guy will always win. if this is about innovation and entrepreneurship, you've got to leave space for that new guy to get in the game.
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otherwise, amazon and google will control the world. >> look, we've got an ongoing debate on all sorts of levels about what amount of regulation is correct for the government. keep in mind that this conversation has been evolving over more than 100 years and now you've got the internet. the government is not up to speed on figuring out how to regulate it. >> that's so important. so for the googles of the world who say we want this regulation light, one of the issues is government just hasn't caught up with technology, no one has, given how fast things have moved. >> there are 23-year-olds inventing some of these fantastic websites and these apps and the government is still thinking about the way it applies trade regulations when one -- when staples and office depot want to merge. so it's complicated. it is important to remember this isn't entirely black and white. generally speaking even the internet providers say they're okay with a light touch in regulation, and their argument is that this entire internet has grown with relatively light touch regulation, why do you want to throw more onto it.
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the counter argument is the internet has really grown a lot, there are some issues, we need to regulate. coming up, president trump, he giveth and taketh away. future female engineers from afghanistan are allowed in at the last minute. i'm thrilled to hear this story. and future entrepreneurs, sorry, they're told to stay away. and jamie dimon going off on d.c. mayhem. you'll want to hear it in his voice, next. i was wondering if an electric toothbrush really cleans...
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okay. jamie dimon, the ceo of jpmorgan chase, the biggest bank bias sets, went off on friday during an earnings call with investors. listen and we'll talk on the other side. >> we have become the -- one of the most bureaucratic, confusing, litigous societies on the planet. it's almost an embarrassment
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being an american citizen traveling around the world and listening to the stupid [ bleep ] we have to deal with in this country. and you know at one point we all have to get our act together or we won't do what we're supposed to do for the average americans. and unfortunately people write about that this is for corporations and it's not for corporations. competitive taxes are important for business and business growth. >> this is not a rant against the president in any way, but think about ceos either wanted to go to the white house quietly, wanted to stay away from the white house, did not want to the caught in the crosshairs saying anything negative with a president who could tweet and affect their stock price. here's jamie dimon, ceo and chairman of jpmorgan simply letting it rip with frustration. >> some would say that's actually in support of donald trump's agenda. but he didn't really use this language beforehand. >> even if he is in support of donald trump's agenda, part i
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believe of what he's saying is then get to the ding dang agenda and stop the noise. which is what so many people feel. he's not the only ceo. lloyd blankfein actually joined twitter, which seemed to be -- >> on the 1st of june. this is the first tweet he ever sent at 2:20 in the afternoon and this is about pulling out of the climate agreement. >> today's decision is a setback for the environment and for the u.s.'s leadership position around the world. so this amazes me. it's as though the ceo of goldman joined twitter to actually troll the president. >> remember, at the beginning of this presidency, there were some ceos who told me they joined twitter, never tweeted, they joined twitter just to see if they were being tweeted about. >> their worst nightmare was to wake up to a trump tweet. the department of homeland security will delay implementation of the international entrepreneurship rule which is akin to a start-up visa. this was set to go into effect on monday.
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it would give foreign entrepreneurs with financial backing already a chance to set up fast-growing businesses in the united states by allowing them to work in this country and build their businesses. they'd have a renewable 30-month visa if they were actually building a business. >> so this is a big negative for silicon valley because, again, it's not saying we're going to raise the money here. those companies have financing, could be job creators. >> usually are. >> so silicon valley, built on entrepreneurship, thumbed out. >> and there's a disproportionate number of businesses that employ people that do very well in silicon valley that are started by immigrants. so a lot of people saying this was bad. this is sort of that xenophobia that we see from the white house keeping people who aren't americans out for the wrong reasons. but there are two sides to every coin. >> president trump personally along with one of hi advisers, dena powell, intervened to let an all female afghan robotics team enter the u.s. so they could attend an international competition in d.c. the state department had denied their visas twice, sparking a
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lot of criticism. thanks to the president, the girls, ages 14 to 16, are ready to compete tomorrow along side teams from 157 other countries in what is being described as the olympics for teen robotics. girls, you can do it. i believe in you. >> so what the white house -- they keepeth away some and bring in others. i have to say that female robotics team from afghanistan is symbolic of so many things that we all want to go right in the world. afghanistan in general, women as engineers, more of them. women getting great education and opportunities, and afghan girls at that. >> just to apply for the visas, these girls had to trek across the country. >> to a place in afghanistan to get the visa. >> welcome to the united states, ladies. that does it for us. >> "velshi & ruhle" scratched for one day, we're not on sunday, but we're back on monday. every weekday. a lot of you have asked, hey, you should be together all week. we are, 11:00 a.m. eastern every
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day on msnbc. you can see both of us together. >> and i'll see you monday at 9:00 a.m. >> and i will see you monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern. have a great rest of your weekend. >> adios. noo introducing the easiest way to get gillette blades text "blades" to gillette on demand text to reorder blades with gillette on demand... ...and get $3 off your first order only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol®
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hello, everyone, i'm alex wi wit here at msnbc national. we have new reaction from a heb of the house intel committee on where the russia investigation is heading, this in light of donald trump jr.'s meeting with a russian lawyer. here's what congressman jim himes told me in the last hour. >> i suppose we could have a long national conversation about the definition of collusion, but, you know, the president's son clearly knew he was getting derogatory information from a hostile foreign power and laid out a timetable to use it. in my mind, that's collusion. whether it's illegal or

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