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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  July 15, 2017 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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a very good day to you. i'm richard lui in new york. new revelations of donald trump jr.'s meeting with russian officials in june of 2016 inside of trump tower and what we are now learning about that meeting as white house scrambles to run damage control. also come coming up for you at this hour, the health care battle, the obamacare replacement bill is in jeopardy as they try to keep more senators in their states from coming out against the latest version of the health care bill. more on that just ahead. we'll start right now with seven days of shifting stories from the trump campaign all on the crucial meeting with a lawyer working with the russian lawyer and donald trump jr. six people in that meeting have been confirmed. the others, the lawyer working with the russian government, a lobbyist brought by the lawyer who was a russian sergeant and a translator. it began last weekend with
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donald trump jr. saying he did not know it was a russian lawyer he was meeting with at trumpb tower and it was primarily about adoptions. but over this baft week, just yesterday, major developments revealed that that was false. take a listen. >> can you definitively say, can you look into my eyes, your cameras and say, i'm 100% sure the president and his campaign did not conspire with a russian ap r apparatus. that's why i want to get to the bottom of it. >> joining us is kelly o'donnell. we'll start with you at the white house. damage control mode. we've heard those words before.
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but where are we at at this hour based on what has happened in the past 24 hours? >> the president is mixing his family time and business branding at the attendance of the golf tournament. he's in public today and he's enjoying watching that unfold. at the same time, he's using the tools, like we've come to known, like his twitter feed, to make a different kind of comparison. he's attacking the russia issue in a way that is attempting to downplay it. he used a tweet to talk about the stock market and the highs and the rally that is going on and says that the russia hoax, despite the russia hoax, there's a stock market rally. to call it the russia hoax is a donald trump way of trying to say, especially to his supporters, that there's nothing to pay attention to here.
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that, of course, is very different than the investigation that is going on, the examination of what took place in that meeting in june of 2016 involving his son, son-in-law and russian figures that you outlined. so the president is doing that. at the same time, the white house has announced they are bringing on an additional attorney who will work inside the white house to handle inquiries from the mueller investigative team, the special counsel, from congressional inquiries, in addition to the private lawyers that the family members have retained for themselves. there are developments. the president is using his twitter feed to sort of diminish and mock the russia investigation as a way of saying nothing to look at. richard? >> let's go to ken now. ken, where are we in terms of numbers? we have six faces so far that we know in terms of the who was at this meeting. are there discussions of the
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seventh? >> i don't think we know yet. we don't have a full accounting of who was at this meeting. we believe there was a translator. we don't know the name of that person. the news yesterday was that this russian american lobbyist, rinat akhmetshin and became a lobbyist and a fixer in washington and has worked on behalf of russian oligarchs and not paid by the russian government necessarily but in a cause against these magnitsky actions. the reason this is so important is because it was concealed. we broke this story the day after donald trump jr. went on television and said i've told you everything there is to tell about this meeting. this meeting is the first
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example of evidence of collusion between the russian government and the trump team. instead of calling the fbi, he said, i'm going to take this meeting. i'd love to see this. richard? >> ken, building on that, all of the responses that we've heard so far from donald trump jr. and the president over this have not been under oath. might that change in the near future? obviously we have four or five investigations happening right now. >> that's right. there are grand juries that work in this matter. there's a real legal question about can the president be called under oath before a grand jury. certainly the president's son could. any american has a right not to testify. if his lawyer advised him that he's in legal jeopardy to testify before a grand jury, he's not going to say anything. it's not clear whether there will be any answers under oath
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about this. you can imagine and bet that the special counsel will be requesting every scrap of paper, every e-mail and meetings that may have occurred. >> great to have you here. ken, kelly, thank you. appreciate both of your reporting right now. let's go to the washington bureau chief in birmingham, alabama, and also a formal federal prosecutor. gabby, we have the report from ken here, six confirmed. what are you learning? >> there are a number of questions about the contents of this meeting. there's only so much that we've learned about the president's son. confirming at the very least that this was a meeting set up with a sole purpose of disclosing information that
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these individuals felt -- these kremlin-connected individuals felt would be damaging to hillary clinton, the democratic front-runner at the time. and so i think that these are questions that will emerge hopefully during the congressional investigations. it's one thing for the president's son to go on to sean hannity show and talk about what he felt was him being transparent about the contents of the meeting and the purpose of it and it's another to get in front of the intel committee and answer questions from career prosecutors. that's something that needs to happen and hopefully will at some point in the future. >> let's get over to you, rick, on this. we've been reporting the former counter intelligent arge jent wi sergeant, now an american, what do you make of this? >> there are interesting
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characters and it's going to be interesting to those discussing russian influence as well to the special counsel from the standpoint of looking at it in the optic of criminality. there are basically two areas that you've got to look at. one is, were laws of the united states violated? i think that's a very high bar to reach and the other investigative avenue is from a counter intelligent standpoint and that's not having enough scrutiny. that's the attempt by russia to influence our political processes, our democratic institutions and take advantage of this polarization between the electorate and our elected officials. if i'm the russian intelligence officer in charge of sowing discontent in the american process, i'm promoted and very successful at what i'm doing. what we haven't done is shone a
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bright light on russia. they didn't know what the outcome was going to be and would have wanted to have been in the most advantageous position regardless of who won our election. >> what has been said by leader pelosi, the minority leader here, is that there is collusion or attempted collusion. are either of those illegal? >> yes. the operative criminal concept here would be conspiracy. conspiracy is an agreement by more than one person to commit a crime. so whether or not that crime was ultimately completed is irrelevant. i think the theory that seems to be the most substantiated by the facts so far would be the theory that these people, this group of people got in a room and formulated an agreement to
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accept russian help in the election in exchange for help from the administration after taking office on lifting sanctions. that's the -- that's what we know from the president's son's statement, that these people were talking about the magnitsky act during the same breath as offering help. >> what would be the penalty for -- you're saying both intent to collude is also fitting into illegality? there is a certain member of the house earlier on msnbc that was saying of those two, they are not necessarily illegal, both the intent and the act of colluding. >> yeah. conspiracy is the idea here. conspiracy is a crime. >> right. that would be illegal. >> that is title 18, section 371 of the united states code. it is an agreement to commit a crime coupled with an overt act in furtherance thereof. there are a lot of overt acts that you could look to.
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one might be michael flynn contacting the russians during the transition and talk about lifting sanctions. that would be just one. there are a lot others that we may know about. we don't have a transcript or recording of this meeting. it would be interesting to see if there was one. an agreement would be just, hi, we're russiansing offeri offeri help. that would be enough on its face to show an agreement plus an attempt to complete the crime. >> let's throw more into this, gabby. j jay sukalow says he didn't know about this. >> we've heard that they've known about it for a couple of weeks due to a disclosure from jared kushner, his son-in-law.
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the most important unknown aspect right now, we need to know if, as caleb was saying, this was a quid pro quo situation. something promised to individual in exchange for information that they may have given the president through his son. we've certainly seen dedicated reporting on this issue. i think that places the president and his son in a situation where they are in intense legal jeopardy. >> rick, why is this or is it not, a nothing burger? >> i don't think it's a nothing burger. i think it's something that the special counsel needs to follow up on. the burden of proof is on the government. i love caleb's theory.
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but proving that and in a court of law is a very different thing. prosecutors would take that theory and run with it as the facts as we now know them. that's not to say that the facts a aren't going to change. they always do. again, what we're missing, we ought to be looking at russian influence more broadly than just the trump campaign. there are some other things that are of concern that occurred on the clinton campaign side, the hacking of the dnc, hundreds of millions of dollars going into the clinton foundation. if we truly are interested in protecting our democratic institutions, this needs to be a much broader focus. >> and we'll see how wide the special counsel mueller goes with this. that's one of the key questions. i'll finish quickly here with you, caleb. i want to go to the son-in-law. he's now updating the number of connections that he had, the number somewhere around 100.
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does he face any legal jeopardy because of that? >> the thing that diffis differ is he is an official in the administration and the statutes that govern bribery and theft of honest services, that's a sort of fraud, they apply to government officials. mr. kushner as a government official is subject to different kinds of legal jeopardy than don junior and paul manafort. mr. kushner has engaged in a lot more actions in office that could be described as a potential quo to the quid of the russian help. in other words, he's the guy who would have been carrying out the
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other end of the deal. the case law on this, on bribery in public officials and honest services theft includes giving advice to a principle. so if you're a public official and accept something of value in exchange for giving advice, that would further an official act, and that is potentially a criminal act. yes, he has more jeopardy than they do. >> great reflections from our trio here. thank you. >> you bet. the gathering of governors in rhode island today. a live report just ahead. plus, democratic congressman will join me to discuss what the democrats plan to do as the health care bill battle heats up. that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪
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new developments on the latest version of the republican bill to replace obamacare. two major insurers are asking mitch mcconnell to remove senator ted cruz's amendment. it would allow insurers to sell cheaper plans with fewer benefits. bluecross and blue shield, those two are calling the cruz proposal unworkable in any form. this morning, president trump sounding optimistic, though, in his weekly address. take a listen. >> i'm pleased to report that we are very, very close to ending this health care nightmare. we are so close. it's a commonsense approach that restores the sacred doctor/patient relationship and you're going to finally have great health care at a lower price. >> trump top officials also
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health and human services secretary tom price are in rhode island and they are trying to garner support at the national governor's association gathering. >> it is us, we, the governors, that are going to have the responsibility to make sure that the citizens of our states are in a good position. so it's like so many things in congress, we hope they are listening to the governors. >> after being unveiled on tuesday, the latest senate bill is facing resistance on the hill with rand paul and susan collins. they are already coming out in opposition of it. >> i'm very disappointed because i've been very vocal about my concerns. >> several republican senators are still undecided. leader mcconnell cannot afford any of these six to go on a
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"no." joining me is alex. we showed the sixth there and that's really that question, isn't it, will the governors from those states be able to, shall we say, influence how these six senators may or may not vote on this latest bill? >> right. that's the key question. that's and i think they are wrapping up behind me. this conference is wrapping up. it's safe to say they didn't get as far as they would have liked to have gotten. the focus was on brian sandoval, governor of nevada. he's a moderate. he has influence over dean heller. i spoke to him after he came out of a meeting with price earlier and told me he was still not sold on the bill and even from redder states, more conservative states, a. saw, for instance, i
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spoke to governor hutchinson. >> there still seems to be a cost shift to the states but we have to look beyond medicaid dollars and that's the mistake that everybody is making right now. >> they stand to lose millions of dollars in medicaid money. richard? >> alex, very key meeting happening over there. thank you so much. there in rhode island. joining us now, what do you make of the cruz version of the bill? >> unfortunately, we're on trumpcare 3.0 and it's gotten no better. it's gotten worse.
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you see insurance companies weighing in. it would be absolutely unworkable and you continue to see these republican governors who know that there were tremendous benefits to their state and to the medicaid population through the affordable care act. they are not going to let that go unless there's a real solution. this bill cut $772 million from medicaid. it still makes the premiums go higher, particularly for older adults and those with pre-existing conditions, they would be out of luck in terms of getting affordable care that actually covers them. there's still lots of problems and i don't see how mitch mcconnell gets to a vote that is going to pass as long as these representatives can go forward. >> what compromise would you be pushing for that you thinks works for both sides? >> i think they need to recognize that the affordable
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coverage extended for millions. there are fixes that we need to make. democrats and republicans have both said that. controlling prescriptions and drug costs for seniors is one of those fixes. there are fixes that we need to make in the individual marketplace. but none of those things would actually be fixed with the bills that they are putting forward. they need to recognize that they should step back from repealing. they don't have a better replacement and should work with democrats on trying to get something through. >> what's been floated is leave medicaid alone, move on the exchanges. would you support that? >> well, it all depends on what that looks like. they are proposing getting rid of, in my home state of washington, my exchange is the most effective exchange in the country. our exchange is working very, very well. i can't see that in states that have put a lot of effort into
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getting these exchanges up and running, we'd be able to get rid of these exchanges. >> because you vote on a bill, on a law that will affect the entire country in the heartland where it's not working, folks will say it may be working in washington and other places but what about me? >> absolutely. but the thing is, the exchange is just a tool. the exchanges are set up in order to fum tnnel the dollars match them with state dollars so there are lots of dollars of how to implement an exchange and have them work properly. the question is, how much is the government going to put into these critical pieces and how does a federal government allow federal subsidies to shore up the insurance market. those are the core pieces of the affordable care act. the exchanges have been set up as a mechanism to implement the federal law. so the issues that we're looking at are more around how you
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control the increases in premiums and how do you make sure that certain essential benefits remain covered and those things are part and parcel of the plan that republicans have a problem with. so i think that's their problem and they have themselves in a bit of box because they spent seven years trying to get rid of the affordable care act and saying it doesn't work but now what they've seen is republican governor who is say, actually, it does work. yes, it's a huge law. we do have some fixes. but at this point they should back off of this. i'll tell you, it's going to affect the rest of their agenda. at some point, they've got to cut bait and say we were wrong. >> it's going to. i think there are those who may say we're pretty far. thank you so much. great perspective from the great northwest, washington state congressman. >> thank you. this week was all about donald trump jr., if you didn't
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hear. next, a look at what next week, though, could bring in the russia investigation. >> yeah, i think the bigger question is why jared kushner still has a job. a daily struggle,
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[ snoring ] progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto. [ chuckles ] all right. welcome back. i'm richard lui. president trump is at the golf club in new jersey watching the women's u.s. open. this comes as the president faces new questions. we know that the june 16 meeting included a russian lobbyist. the trump administration is considering a new policy that would expand the deportation powers of department of homeland security. "the washington post" reporting that it would allow the dhs for the removal of undocumented immigrants anywhere in the u.s. that cannot prove that they lived in the u.s. continually for 90 days.
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the bill would not require additional approval. during last year's campaign, donald trump attacked hillary clinton for the exact same thing that some democrats are accusing the president of, allegedly using favorable power for treatment from the russians. >> hillary clinton turned the state department into a private hedge fund, the saudis, russians, chinese, all gave money to bill and hillary and got favorable treatment in return. >> now there's more evidence emerging. donald trump jr. releasing that damaging e-mail chain. it shows that the president's elder son accepted a meeting with someone who has a close ties to the kremlin and now we're learning that a post-intelligence sergeant also attended the meeting.
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donald trump jr. accepted that on june 7th and here's his father on the stump that very night. >> "the new york times" reports that the senate intelligence committee will now have to include trump junior in its investigation. his brother-in-law kushner is also coming under scrutiny. kushner's other meetings with the russian ambassador and a kremlin-tied banker have been the subject of intense investigation so far. ku kushner has also drawn attention for leaving out his contacts with russian contacts and he's revised that form three times in the first six months of the administration adding 100 new
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names to that list in the process. some democrats have called for kushner's security clearance to now be revoked. others would go even further than that. >> i think the bigger question is why jared kushner still has a job. there seems to be two scenarios here. either jared kushner didn't tell his superiors, didn't tell his boss, the president of the united states, that he had this meeting. if that's the case, he's subject to the same problem that got michael flynn fired. >> a former adviser to former george january preside georgia president. 100 additional names. >> right. look, richard, you previewed this in your introduction but let's review the facts when it comes to jared kushner and his complete lack of transparency here. it was jared kushner who did not
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initially disclose his meetings with the then russian ambassador to the united states. it was then jared kushner who did not disclose his meeting with sergey gorkov, the russian intelligence-linked bar intelligence-linked banker. it was jared kushner who proposed to the russians the establishment of a covert back channel using russian communication equipment in an apparent effort to evade sanctions and it was jared who took part in this june 2016 meeting and then for months, until last weekend, made liars out of his colleagues by not correcting the record when they repeatedly said there was no contact during the campaign with russian government officials. that was a total lie. jared knew it. the kremlin also knew it. and therefore, as you were alluding to before, jared was just as compromised as michael
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flynn was. >> what more does the kremlin know and was talked about earlier in this hour, the culpability of russians in this entire meeting. >> it's been a pretty interesting week because what that meeting was was a really great sort of microcosm of what those of us with experience watching russian intelligence operations play out in other places have seen but on a macro sale around the trump organization and campaign. >> is this a typical soft sell? >> it's something hard for people to understand. this is the kremlin's preferred means of action against the united states which it has defined as its primary opponent are these shadow warfare tools. every one of these russians kind of floating around the scenes that just happened to have a russian intelligence background or happened to have a direct line to the russian prosecutor or happened to have financing from russian-state companies,
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these are not disconnected from the kremlin. it's something new and different for americans to understand. we do not operate in the same way. but this is how the kremlin builds influence with what they view as powerful and influential and elite and this is how they've developed ties that they can leverage for other means. you've seen that around the trump family and i think that sort of the kremlin's new ideology of export is money is the means of recruitment. it's how they have gained access to this family and the promise of money in the future and every single person sitting in that room had benefited from large amounts of cash and they believed it put them above the law of every nation and this is something hard for us to deal with but it's the master as controlled in a very active way. >> ned, over to you on this. what is it going to be like when jared kushner is sitting down with the president of the united states, adviser to the president and the firewalls that
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potentially they now must put up as has been discussed? should he leave the white house? is that what is he needs to do to keep everything cleanly divided? >> well, richard, let's remember what jared's portfolio is within the administration. it's essentially director of everything. especially when it comes to foreign policy. he's a shadow national security adviser, essentially. he's responsible for resolving the israeli palestinian conflict and for our relations with china and for our relations with saudi arabia and the broader gulf. he's responsible for our relations with mexico and canada. not to mention the elements he has on the domestic side. so all that to say, jared kushner cannot continue to function as a senior adviser unless he has a security clearance and beyond a reasonable doubt, beyond a doubt in my mind, he should not have a security clearance. if a career intelligence
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official had committed a fraction of what jared kushner is accused, not only would our security clearances be immediately suspended, our liberty could be at risk. there's a profound double standard to which the standard career officials are subjected to and what jared kushner is getting away with as he still obtains a top security clearance. >> just between the five investigations and it will become a question moving forward. so that is within itself that difficulty altogether. we were talking about the counterintelligence sergeant that we now understand was sitting in this meeting, a russian american, an individual that was a fairly well known lobbyist in the beltway. what's the takeaway for you being in this space? >> there's a lot of guys like this. and i think the number one thing that we need to emphasize and
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we'll repeat is there's no such thing as a former russian intelligence officer particularly in the gas of the gru and you never get to leave. at the very least, you become a reservist. functionally and if you look at how this individual had been operating, whether he left independently of any russian government ties and is useful again and still actively an agent for at least 15 years he's been operating in the interests of the russian government and people who can be recruited to their causes and to work on their behalf in the united states and that is very much a russian intelligence operative. he's been -- and i think a point worth noting, one of the ways he's been building relationships with people is to reporters, to the fbi and u.s. security agencies, this is very concerning but it's a pattern of
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russian, quote, american activity in terms of how they use information as influence and to gain access to people in the united states. >> active in retirement, a reservist. molly, ned price, thank you. >> thank you. >> all right. up next, disturbing new details in the murders of four men in pennsylvania. the investigators and what they are saying about the two men charged with the crime. frds oscar mayer deli fresh ham has no added nitrates, nitrites or artificial preservatives. now it's good for us all. like those who like. sweet
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a second man has been charged in the gruesome quadruple murder in pennsylvania. 20-year-old sean michael kratz was arrested on murder and conspiracy to commit murder following the arrest of cosmo dinardo. he confessed to killing all four men on thursday and told authorities then where to find the bodies. coming up, we're talking to the bone, netflix's new film which tackles an rorexia.
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i can be more active. ask your doctor about lyrica. great. that's great. >> oh, my god. oh, my god. >> mom. >> you look like a ghost. >> a drama about anorexia. it premiered friday on netflix and it's getting a lot of attention. it's called "to the bone." it's real in many ways. the lead actress, lilly collins, struggled with anorexia herself. the director, marty noxin, also battled the eating disorder. some worry it might be a little too real.
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the trailer had 54 million views by the first week in june. that sparked debate. would the drama glamourize excessive thinness or trigger those prone to eating disorders? 30 million people battle eating disorders and one-third of them men and boys. a study from 2000 showed african-american girls were more likely to have eating disorders rather than other racial groups. and a study from 2003 found one in three were over 30 years old. marty joins us along with an eating disorder advocate that helps those who suffer from eating disorders afford treatment. marty, thanks for being here. you know from personal experience this is a very difficult topic to talk about. why did you want to do this
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film? >> well, i was sick when i was about 14 until i was about 24 and that was almost 30 years ago and i think i felt that by the time i had my own daughter, you know, who was that age, things would be a lot better and i feel like things haven't gotten better enough. we don't talk about it enough. >> why? why has it not gotten better? you've seen a pretty big part of your life being part of this conversation. >> yeah. i'm not sure. i think there's a lot of secrecy around it and there's a lot of shame if you've had anorexia or bulimia, there's a whole myriad of eating disorders and a better understanding of them now but i still think that people feel that it's shameful because it's a little hard to relate to. it's not like other isms where people can understand wanting to drink too much or something like this. this is hard to explain. that he was a big goal of the
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movie. let's try to help people understand what the mechanism of it is and why people do it and that they need help. >> and part of that not wanting to talk about it, christina, we shared a couple of the statistics which you know well that show it is wiech o much wideren that if you will the stereotypical view of what it might be young and white and female. and from just that undering of the data out there it's more wide-reaching christina. >> oh 100s%. i happy to be young white and female. but that is not the typical eating disorder suffers. as you pointed out it's 30 million americans that's 10% of the population that's huge. and these continue to be the mother stigmatized and underfunded of all mental health conditions. i think largely because like marty alluded to people don't get them and frankly still view them as a white, rich girl vanity issue and something that's a choice and not a real
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mental illness. and that's why we were so excited to get involved with this movie, because it really portrays for the general public what it's like to be struggling with the disorders. >> one in three men, though, christina sns that was one of the pieces that completely go against the stereotype here. >> sorry say process one more time. >> one in three men that was something that completely went against the stereotype. >> yeah one in three men. >> one in three people are men. >> one in three people are men. yes, exactly as stigmatized as female eating disorders have been, male eating disorders have been even more stigmatized. so really up until recently people thought, men don't suffer from eeing disorders. many people still view that. and it's really a problem for men trying to seek treatment and even trying to you know come to terms with the fact this that they have a problem. >> marty, was your film too
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real? was it too graphic or too exacting was a playbook how to make it too acceptable. >> that can be an argument that's levied against films like this. but there really hasn't been a feature film that we can find any feature film -- there have been television movies about it. and we tried to be pinedful. we vetted the script before we shot it. we took thing out that could be a little more activating. but at the same time if you don't represent it you really don't have a conversation starter. and this was all -- first of all it was my experience -- it's loosely based on on exactly what i went through. >> who did you vet it with by the way marty. >> we had medical professionals look at it and advice we got that numbers can can be triggering for people. >> at one point we said what the
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weigh was when she hit the low and we took that out. but any also felt a lot of the behaviors we showed were not a secret. we weren't giving away any unknown tricks. so -- i think the great thing about this conversation is that people now -- if they feel like they're at a point in the recovery where it could be harmful for them to watch it or you have a child that -- you're not sure should watch it, watch it with them on wait until it's a safe time i'm dwratful for the conversation starter. >> christina i've known individuals who have battled this. this is lifelong, as marty is talking about. is this for marty for those who don't know it or those who do, eating disorders. >> i really think the film was not made for eating disorder sufferers. we already know what it feels like all too well to struggle with it. it's for the ore other 90% of the population who doesn't.
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frankly friends and family members struggling to understand what a it is and what does it feel like? i mean one of the best reactions to the film that happened the other week a presented of mine i brought her to the press screening. she has been my friend for many years years and after the film she turned to me and said oh, my god, christina, like i cannot believe i've always respected you so much intellectual willy what you do but i never got it. >> now they know yeah. >> i wanted to reach across anding hug you the entire film. >> got to 11 it leer christina saffron. marty knoxen thank you "to the boin" airing right now on netflix. tai two shall we say and with that we'll be right back. thank you. with hydrogenated oil...
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