tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC July 18, 2017 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
we finally get a chance to repeal and replace, they don't take advantage of it. so, that's disappointing. so, i'm very -- i would say i'm disappointed in what took place. it will go on and will win. we'll win on taxes and win on infrastructure and lots of other things we're doing. we won and are winning the war on the border where very much decimating isis. you see that, you see that better than anybody sees it. the soldiers that are with us today. we have a lot of victories but we haven't had a victory on health care. we're disappointed. i am very disappointed. >> all right. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is not giving up. today he is going for a new approach. repeal and then replace. even that approach is not looking very likely with moderate senators who are coming out against the motion to proceed on a straight repeal. just moments ago senator mcconnell said the vote is likely to happen soon. >> some time in the near future we'll have a vote on repealing
obamacare. essentially the same vote that we had in 2015. i would remind everyone that in that proposal, there's a two-year delay. a two-year delay which would give us the opportunity to work out a complete replacement on a bipartisan basis with our democratic friends. so, that's a vote, i think we're very likely to have in the very near future. >> with our democratic friends. there's a term you don't hear all that often. senator rand paul who opposed repeal and replace is urging his colleagues to support just repeal for now. >> all of us promise we would repeal obamacare and the discussion is whether or not to move forward to a vote on that. we voted in 2015 to repeal obamacare. i'm in favor of the motion to proceed to repealing obamacare. and i think that's what we should do and that's what the discussion has been about. >> now, on the flipside. the democrats are coming out
slamming repealing obamacare without a replacement saying millions can be put in jeopardy. >> make no mistake about it. passing repeal without a replacement would be a disaster. our health care system would implode. millions would lose coverage. coverage for millions more would be diminished. >> okay. so, from capitol hill to the white house, we're going to bring you the news as it happens. we're starting with nbc garret who has been covering every moment of this eventful day on capitol hill. let's start with this. explain to us what has been happening there today because much has happened since this morning. the repeal and replace bill effectively died and mcconnell talking about repeal and then maybe replace. moderates already coming out against that. rand paul likes that idea. just make sense of this for me, please. >> i'll try, ali. but the starting point for this, i think, is last night when mitch mcconnell said we're not going with that old plan of
repeal and replace. we're going to repeal, replace. capped off the discussion of the previous bill. we're not talking about vote counts on that bill any more. that's ancient history. most republican senators voted for in 2015. well, it turns out there are at least moderate republicans who aren't ready to go down that road. voting for this bill now which will repeal obamacare outright and delay that repeal for two years. you had three republican women senators all come out and say, we're not going to do this. we're not going to vote for something and for various reasons leave people unprotected or unsure about what might come down the pipe. that leaves mitch mcconnell in a bad place. he can't bring this discussion to the floor. you heard from him just now, they're pushing for it. and conservatives are aligned and pushing for it and a lot of other republican senators are voting for it. i asked lindsey graham about this after mitch mcconnell spoke
just a few moments ago. here is part of our exchange. >> is it frustrating to you that we are seven months in and we had a couple votes get to the brink and fail. >> no matter how smart you are as majority leader, you have a hard time with politics back home. so when you go back home, if your -- doesn't matter what they say. you have sandoval saying i don't like this bill. several governors who are not really on board. so, his problem and all of our problem is that the solution doesn't have a whole lot of support. now, what if you flipped it around and said we're going to be generous with money but spend the money at the state level and not the federal level. more control of the stakes when it comes to health care decisions. i think you'd have more governor support and more rank and file republican support. and some democrats, i think, could support the idea of giving money to their states. >> and, ali, that's lindsey graham talking about a whole
separate plan. that means you are farther away, not closer to coming to an agreement. but they're going to keep working and i'll try to chase down ted cruz who just appeared during that sound bite and let you know if he says anything more about this plan. >> go do that and we'll chat with you later. hans, you're stuck with me because garret is going to talk to ted cruz. the latest white house briefing is one of those weird ones where it's audio only and we can't put cameras in there. it's just ended. what happened? >> if it just ended we'll get sound to you shortly. the emerging strategy to punish democrats and forgive republicans on health care and ignore the timetable. when sarah huckabee sanders was briefing just moments ago and talking about this, given numerous chances to answer this question on whether or not they blamed republicans. and she decided not to take the bait. they're putting the blame squarely on democrats and the whole theory, ali, is that they want to say that once health care is even more broken. once more insurance markets
collapse, then they think the system will be so broken that democrats, therefore, have to come to the negotiating table. and this will then be a truly bipartisan process. but this is predicated on this strategy. let's be clear about this. predicated on americans losing access to health insurance on markets collapsing in individual states on things getting much worse before they get better. not having any sort of preventive care but going and making sure that this is almost accelerated the decline of it and then they think they could potentially start the policy process. we heard that from the president and we just heard it from sarah huckabee sanders. ali, i apologize. part of the problem here is with the rules of the briefing. if the briefing is, indeed, over, we can share some sound with you enumerating this strategy. i don't know if it's finally over since i started talking to you. >> i'm just getting word that it's not over yet. we can't, we can't air that audio yet. these are some weird rules, hans, for viewers who didn't
grow up with them and they think it's weird. they're right. weird stuff. >> no one grew up with them because they're brand-new. >> you're right. brand-new rules. not sure they make sense. hans, don't go far. you and i need to talk about the other big story of the day, russia, in a little bit. i'll come back to you. i want to take a quick look back at republican opposition to the affordable care act. after obamacare was passed in march of 2010, that's the signing ceremony, republicans almost immediately started their campaign against the law. for the past seven years, republicans have been promising a simple formula of repeal and replace. >> we will stop the out of control spending and tax increases and repeal and replace obamacare. >> when it comes to repealing health care, we made it clear going back to last spring right after this bill was passed that this bill ought to be repealed and replaced with common sense reforms to low the cost of health insurance.
>> we have to repeal obamacare and replace it with real patient-centered health care. >> i think you know what our view is. the thing ought to be repealed and replaced entirely. >> the answer is to repeal and replace obamacare with modern market centered reforms. >> this country deserves better and this class is ready to deliver on its promise to repeal and replace obamacare. >> my poll numbers are going through the roof. you know why? i believe the big part of it is obamacare. we're going to repeal it and replace it. >> as far as i'm concerned your premiums are going to start to come down. we will get passed through the senate. i feel so confident. >> in january of this year the senate took control of and they tried to repeal and replace the affordable care act. house republicans unveiled their plan. two and a half weeks later on the 24th speaker ryan pulled the vote on the bill at the last minute when it was clear he didn't have the votes.
a month later on april 25th, the mcarthur amendment is added to the bill allowing states to opt out of many of the requirements, including the essential health benefits that were central to every single policy under obamacare. the amendment helped woe the hardliners who opposed the bill. it ultimately passed the house on may 4th and everybody went to the white house to celebrate. that's what you're looking at right there. celebrating at the white house rose garden. that was just the house. let's turn to the senate and see what happened there. it unveiled its version of the bill less than a month ago on june 27. 22nd. i'm sorry. a mere five days later on the 27th of june, speaker mcconnell delayed the vote as it became clear that the votes were not there yet. late last weekend an updated version of the bill was introduced which ckept many obamacare taxes and cruz amendment. it appears the compromises were not enough and as of today the bill is dead for now. for more, i want to bring in republican congressman buddy carter of georgia.
congressman carter voted for the house version back in may. congressman, good to see you. what on earth happened here? you control the house and you control the senate and this is the fifth or sixth generation of a bill that you guys have been promising since 2010 to repeal and replace. how come this can't get done? >> well, obviously, right now we're struggling with the replacement bill. so, what we need to do now is just repeal obamacare. this failed experiment, if you will, that is imploding every day. we need to repeal it and then we need to work with our colleagues and work in a bipartisan fashion to come up with a replacement. this is going to take a while. and the leader of the senate has said, it's going to be a two-year plan. we always said we're going to have a stable transition period. we're not going to pull the rug underneath, out from underneath anyone. we're going to make sure there is a period of time, two years, that we wind the program down that's failed obamacare. we need to do that now and we need to be working in a
bipartisan fashion to come up with a replacement. >> more than two years ago, year and a half ago when you all voted for the bill that senator, that senator wants to put forward right now. let me ask you this. you are a young man, but you remember what life was like before obamacare? there were 58 million, 56 million unemployed americans or 26 million now or something like that. if you couldn't get a bill that worked in the last year and a half do we suddenly think we pass and repeal and you'll get your act together in the next two years? >> we do feel that working in a bipartisan fashion that we can come up with solutions for this. what needs to happen now is we need to go ahead and repeal this and start getting over it and then during that two-year transition period, we come up with solutions. we come up with ideas to replace it. that's simply what we need to do. we need to create a fiber, robust insurance system where insurance companies are competing for your business. not where we're begging them to stay in the system. not where we're having to subsidize them to stay in the system.
instead, we need a robust, vibrant, competitive market. >> so, you know that doesn't work unless you compel everybody to have insurance. no system in the world at all where that works. switzerland has a private insurance system but everybody has to be covered. >> well, look -- >> because insurance companies won't get together. i'll rephrase it. insurance companies are not going to be begging to cover people with cancer or heart disease or diabetes. they don't beg for that kind of business. they just won't insure them. >> what we need are insurance companies that offer policies that americans can have a choice with. that's the whole key to it. is giving patients accessibility, affordability, patient-centered health care. that's what we're talking about here. that's what we've been talking about through the whole process. >> we have about 33 million more people insured today than under obamacare. those are people who were not able to afford insurance because of pre-existing conditions or they were too poor. we have to figure out a way to
do this. i understand what your concerns are and valid concerns about obamacare, which i outlined on this show. but in the end, what faith can americans have in the fact that you guys will deliver a plan since you haven't been able to despite trying to kill obamacare since 2010? >> well, we -- >> at seven years. >> look, when we start from scratch. we will work in a bipartisan fashion keeping in mind that we want to have accessible, affordable, patient-centered health care. which is what everyone wants to have. republicans and democrats together. then we come up with a plan. that's what our charge is. that's what our challenge is at this point. >> will you push your leadership to actually do this in a bipartisan fashion now that this has not worked in a single-party fashion? >> well, if we can't get it done by our selves and the majority party, yes. we need to look at bipartisan fashion. look, health care is personal. health care is very personal. we understand it. we get there. and we want to make sure that we're -- and we have made sure that we are addressing the needs
of everyone. we've made sure in the american health care act that those with pre-existing conditions would be covered. we did not leave anyone behind. we made sure that there would be competition out there for insurance companies to get more involved and offer more plans so that more people would be covered. i get so frustrated by the cbo scores that say, oh, 22 million. 23 million people are going to be uninsured. no, that's not what it says. what it says that 22 million, 23 million people will have a choice. that's what we want. >> sir, we all have choices, right? i have a choice to do all sorts of things. can i afford to do it? if you can't afford to do it, that's not a choice that's viable. >> in all fairness the american health care act made sure we kept the premiums for those who have pre-existing conditions at a stable level. that they wouldn't go up. we assured that through that plan. that's why i'm so disappointed in the senate that they didn't accept it. that they couldn't get to a yes vote with enough people there. but that's where we're at.
so, right now, the best thing for us is to repeal this, go back, work together and to come up with something even better. >> you're not looking for my advice and nobody voted for me, but i would really suggest an alternative before you repeal it. the wrath of the american people could be quite strong if they lose their health care. >> look, we have to make sure we get this right. we have to repeal it and start from scratch. it has failed. obamacare has failed. >> i'm not sure. hasn't failed. there is 30 plus million people who have insurance who couldn't get it before obamacare. 74 million people on medicaid. you said it. you said it yourself, health care is personal. so, for those people who didn't have it, it's personal. for a small proportion of the people who are insured on the individual markets who don't qualify for subsidies, their premiums went up way too high. for every one of those people it's personal and it's awful. that is no way an indictment of obamacare. >> it is an indictment of obamacare. 44% of the counties in this country will have one or zero
providers. that is a failed system. >> you don't want to repeal and it will go to 50 mer. in a year it will be 50% and in ten years 75%. but, again -- >> what was it before obamacare? >> good question. before obamacare, it was pretty bad. >> i guarantee you it wasn't 1 or 0. could be right. i'll look into it and we'll talk again. i appreciate you coming on to have this conversation with me. i'll call you once i have that data and we'll continue. republican congressman of georgia. he asked me a question i didn't have the answer to on health care. i like this guy. let's get him back. kristen welker and the briefing has ended. sarah huckabee sanders has wr wrapped it up which means we can now talk about it. kristen, what happened? >> a spirited briefing and, of course, the majority of the questions had to do with health care. and a couple of points i'll make. one of the questions she was pressed on over and over again is whether or not the president has now effectively acknowledged defeat on this latest attempt to repeal obamacare and then
replace it later. sarah huckabee sanders not addressing that directly saying, look, this is not the last step at health care. she was also pressed on whether or not the president bears some responsibility. and over and over again she said, no. in fact, it is democrats who bear all of the responsibility and, of course, there were a number of robust exchanges around that idea because republicans controlled not only the white house, but the house and the senate. i asked her
about that. take a listen to our exchange. >> you say this is democrats' fault. the reality is, they were willing to sit down at the table with you guys and negotiate. >> i missed all those phone calls coming in. >> they said they were going to work with you guys on repeal and replace. isn't it fair to say and wouldn't find common ground with them, as well? >> not at all. we've been very clear from the g beginning. we'll sit down with democrats
and talk about how to reform the health care system. until they recognize the fact that i think obamacare has completely collapsed and failed, i think it will be hard for them to move forward in the process. their unwillingness is pretty undocumented. >> at 2020 at donald trump's twitter account obama's complaints about republicans stopping his agenda and i'm quoting "are bs since he had full control for two years." doesn't the president need to take some responsibility for this moment, sarah? >> i think we're taking responsibility in terms of pushing new legislation through. but not the failures of legislation that happened before the president got into office. i think you also have to take into account the outrageous obstruction that we've talked about pretty frequently up here. not just on health care, but across the board in just allowing the president's administration to be fully staffed and be able to fully carry out the duties of the office. >> i understand what you're saying but this moment is not
about the legislation that was passed before the president took office. this moment is about the president and republicans who campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace obamacare for seven years. the president from the time he was on the campaign trail. not living up to that promise of the american voters. doesn't he need to take responsibility? >> like i said before, the debate in the battle over health care isn't over. we're continuing to push forward to repeal and replace obamacare. and we're going to continue fighting for that every single day. so, you're speaking as if this is over and done and it
certainly isn't. >> and the other question that sarah huckabee sanders was pressed on a number of times, ali, something you were just talking about with your last guest which is whether or not obamacare has failed. she insisted that it has already failed and she was asked if the president was planning to push it over a cliff. her response was it doesn't need to be pushed over a cliff because it's already gone there. she got a lot of pushback on that from reporters who said,
look, the reality is millions of people still rely on obamacare. will president trump decide to defund obamacare in such a way that it will, in fact, start to fail? again, she didn't answer that directly. one other thing that really caught my attention, ali, is what happens next. because, of course, republicans were relying on repealing some of those taxes from oobamacare to get a big, broad tax reform package passed. they're not going to get those taxes back. what happens? do they not have to scale back their tax reform package? that is still an open question. >> that is a big question because the cuts in the proposed bill were big. the tax savings were so big that that's needed as a precondition to a big tax reform bill. so, that is a big mystery that needs to be solved. kristen, great work, as always. thanks for joining us. kristen welker at the white house. we're learning the identity of yet another person in the room for donald trump's meeting
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person who was in the room that day. ike kaveladze is the russian who were offthering dirt on hillary clinton, according to e-mails that don jr. released. covering the story is hans nichols. what do we know about this? >> the russian real estate company. he went to that meeting, according to his lawyers. he went to that meeting thinking he would be the translator. turns out there already was a translator. we also know from "the post" that robert mueller has contacted his lawyer, which is an indication that mueller is investigating this meeting where don jr., as well as jared kushner were present with potential agents of the russian state. we also know that back in 2000 there is a gao report and ike kaveladze was setting up u.s. bank accounts in delaware where, you know, corporations are easy to set up.
some 230 bank accounts that were set up and they moved some $1.4 billion. now, at the point it was a congressionally requested report about russian laundering money in the u.s. so, we're learning more as the day continues. we've placed him at that meeting. nbc news has confirmed that and we'll try to figure out just what his role was there and what questions robert mueller might have asked him. separate from this, sarah huckabee sanders in that briefing was just asked if there are any efforts under way to repeal the act and she seems to something around the corner with sanctions on russia. have a listen. >> it's been concluded that the the meeting that mrs. veselinitskaya lifting the sanctions which targeted top officials in the kremlin.
now since january secretary tillerson has said none of the sanctions will be listed. many of the russian ex-patriots and opponents of the kremlin regime have suggested that if the president could put this issue behind him by supporting further sanctions? >> specific sanctions, i can't speak of that today. but once we have onnouncement, i'll certainly let you know. >> ali, the big thing to watch for in the coming days what the senate judiciary committee is going to do. a strong indication down there on the senate side that they could ask and they have got on the green light from robert mueller to have public testimony from jared kushner and don jr. that's something to watch. ali? >> to that point that sarah huckabee sanders was making. support for the magnitsky sanctions is remarkably, remarkably strong. the magnitsky act something to
steer clear of. thank you, hans, good tasee you. i want to bring in aaron blake. thank you for being with us. we have a story that you've written that you've outlined six potential defenses that donald trump jr. could use or has used for his meeting. i want to just put that up on the screen to show you that donald trump jr. is young. he's inexperienced. the secret service didn't stop it, even though it happened at trump tower. that loretta lynch let the russian lawyer into the u.s. issued her visa, which is just odd because that's not generally something done by an attorney general. it's not collusion unless it's extensive or planned and veselitskaya was the lawywas ju lobbyist not a government lawyer. >> the big take away is an
ever-evolving list of these things. many of them implausible. the secret service one offered by president trump's lawyer is questionable given donald trump jr. was not under secret service protection at the time. i think maybe the best argument that the trumps have right now is the most narrow kind of legal argument that they're making, which was that there was no information of value that was consumed in this meeting. that's the most plausible kind of legal response that they have because it potentially exempts them from having accepted a foreign contribution of some kind, which is one of the possible crimes that people have alleged occurred in this june 2016 meeting. but i think if you look at the totality of these defenses of the meeting with donald trump jr., you really look at how the white house is kind of grasping at straws, looking at things, ways to defend this.
>> fundamentally, though, the bigger issue in today has brought it into sharp relief is that this stuff is getting in the way of the trump agenda. it's getting in the way of the substantially simpler gop agenda to just get health care and tax reform and a few other things done. the president is not bringing to the table any of the normal weight and influence that you would expect a president to bring. >> i think that's a big take away of what we've seen over the last 24 hours. if you look at the president's comments just a little while ago which you guys were playing there. he suggested that he was surprised that these two senators who have long been skeptical of this bill. in fact, both of them opposed the previous version of this bill after it was already doomed. the fact that he was surprised that they would come out against this bill last night suggests that he was not terribly engaged. that he's not bringing a whole lot of pressure to bear. when you look at a bill like this, a bill that is so vast and has so many things for people to not like and members to vote
against, you need to have a president bringing pressure to bear. you need to have them worried about voting against something that the party really wants. >> all right. well, thank you for bringing a little bit of analysis to that, aaron. we will continue this conversation and where the president's influence is coming in to the point that you were just making. that aaron was just making about health care. a lot to take away from today's decision at the senate to, you know, to not have this bill go up for support or to possibly repeal it. let me show you what happens if obamacare gets repealed without a replacement. before the affordable care act, before obamacare 57 million uninsured americans. today there are 26 million uninsured americans. now, if you took obamacare away and you didn't put anything in its place. within a year we'd go up to 44 uninsured americans because the penalty is tied to the individual mandate that causes people to have this insurance will expire. insurers will leave the exchanges. within two years, there will be
53 million uninsured because medicaid expansion and the subsidies will be eliminated. when you stretch it out to ten years. this is done by the cbo, that's why it goes out to ten years. 58 million uninsured people and compared that to the 57 million who were there before obamacare came into place. look at premiums. this is what everybody talks about. a bit misleading because things cover different things. but premiums as they are now would go up 20 to 25% in year one. 50% in year two. and would nearly double by 2026. for those thinking that your premiums will go down, this is for people in the individual market, not going to happen. also for people in the individual or nonemployer-sponsored marketplace. this is when you're buying insurance off of the exchanges. 50% of all americans would live in areas with no insurer participation in the first year. by 2026, 75% of all americans would live in areas with no insurer participation. you all heard a conversation i just had with the conversation
who suggests it would be better. and more insurers in there. well, no, if you actually take 30 million people off the insurance rolls, insurers are not in a rush to get in there. the effect on the federal budget. between 2016 and 2025 the federal budget would increase. not the budget, but the deficit would increase by $137 billion. doing away with obamacare saves money. here's the fact. it will not save money, it will do the opposite. it will cost money. not a reason to fix obamacare. lots of things in that bill that require fixing but a full repeal without a replacement is a problem. let's talk a little bit more about that. i'm joined by jonathan cohn senior correspondent for "huffington post." and author of "sick." jonathan, good to see you. >> thanks for having me on the show. >> there's just a fundamental misunderstanding that i keep having with people like the congressman i was talking to a little earlier. you cannot like obamacare or
like it. but the idea that we'll get rid of it and won't replace it and somehow things will be better is just false on economic levels. it's false on health care levels. >> it's completely false. i was listening to your interview with the guest. he said obamacare is a failure. what you said is exactly right. look, we all know there are problems with this law. people paying more for their premiums and parts of the country where the markets are not working very well. i tell you something, you go to california, you go to michigan, which is i live. the markets have worked quite well. you have millions of people getting insurance who couldn't get it before because they have a pre-existing condition or they couldn't pay for if. that's a lot of progress. you could argue how much it is. you could argue how many people are suffering because of it. clearly, a lot has been accomplished. if you just take that away, all those people. they won't be able to get insurance any more. you will cause a true death spiral, which is always what we hear is going to happen. so, the stakes of this are very
high. >> donald trump has tweet tweelted a couple times about this today. well, let me -- first of all, he said letting obamacare failed and then he tweeted. let obamacare fail and then come together and do a great healthcare plan. stay tuned. congressman i spoke to earlier said, let's start from scratch. talk tame about this. >> first of all, let's be honest. do we think donald trump understands how the health care system works right now? >> how complicated it was. >> we all need to recognize when he's talking about health care policy, he doesn't understand how the affordable care act works. i'm not sure he understands how republican plans work. if you want to start from scratch what is interesting there is an appetite out there and we're hearing from some republicans now who recognize, hey, maybe we can find a little bipartisan common ground here. you know, let's take medicaid off the table because that's basically working like it was supposed to work. let's look at these marketplaces. let's look where they're not working and let's try to make a
deal here. you want something, i want something. let's -- there's some narrow things that could be done that will actually improve the system and help people who are struggle now. but without tearing apart everything that is working. >> some narrow things that can be done. you've written about this and you really know it well. my studies have indicated that most wealthy countries have gone with a universal health care system. there are about 58 countries with the universal health care system. very few of them are single payer. democrats talking about single payer health care. but, really, a lot of people have a goal of getting to universal health care because it brings the costs down that so many republicans are complaining about. is that going to happen in america? can it happen or too politicized? >> can it happen in america? sure. is it going to happen in america? maybe at some point. i think as a goal for sure it takes a while to get there. it's hard to get from there to here both politically as policy. there's no question if you spend
time in these countries and whether it's a single payer country or a place like the netherlands. their systems work very well and they're very happy with it it. building that here is complicated. it will take time. i think you can see a world where we get there. i don't think it happens tomorrow or two or three years. you need to figure out how you get from here to there. >> jonathan cohn, thank you for being with us. senior national correspondent for "huffington post." and the author of "sick." a really necessary read given the conversations that we're having in the country now. coming up next, can the very person leading president trump's probe into voter fraud is now under investigation prompting top democrats in congress to where he allegedly went wrong after the break. i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna.
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the most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. now's the time for a better moment of proof. ask your doctor about victoza®. remember that highly controversial white house commission on voter fraud? well, it meets tomorrow for its very first meeting and the vice chair of the commission kansas aerkt of state, a man who billed himself -- continues to make headlines. a disciplinary office for kansas' supreme court is now investigating kobach showing a lack of respect for the courts and a fine that he misled the court. he violated federal law by using his position as vice chair to further his campaign for kansas governor. then there was the headline from
a few days ago thanks to e-mails released against the aclu that he wanted to require that people show proof of citizenship in order to register to vote. and we can't forget about all the states rejecting the commission's request for voter role data, including his own state of kansas, which is rejecting a part of the request. joining me now to talk about this, a man who is very passionate about voting rights. rolan martin. rolan, this thing is turning around on chris kobach and donald trump because what started as an effort to prove donald trump's unsubstantiated claim that millions of people voted illegally, we do have voting problems in this country and it's largeby because of restrictive voting things that guys like chris kobach are trying to put into place. >> this commission on voter fraud is a fraudulent commission. it has been from day one. donald trump has made fraudulent
arguments. he lied about 3 to 5 million people voting illegally. he lied to people crossing the borders into new hampshire even republicans in new hampshire and lewendo lewendo lewendowski and seven lawsuits facing this so-called voter integrity commission. the legal defense and education fund filed their lawsuit. they dropped it about an hour ago. and they allege this commission specifically discriminates against people of color. that is a significant point there because, remember, bush v. gore. remember, the constitution does not guarantee a right to vote. that was an opinion by scalia in that particular ruling. it's a state issue and that's part of the problem here. >> all right. so, one of the problem going on is that republicans want to end the u.s. election assistance commission. why do you think that is? tell me why you think that is significant?
>> easy. because they have been angry since that 2000 ruling. this commission was set in place to protect the right to vote. the ballot box. we just saw all of these hacking attempts. 100,000 attempts alone in south carolina. we saw the russians trying to get into a number of other states. this commission is to protect the sanctity of the ballot box. for some reason republicans want to do this and i have been saying this, the republican party part party is the greatest threat to democracy when it comes to voting because they want to shave, they want to limit people of color from voting and young people from voting and this is not just a people of color thing. many whites in this country have also impacted when you're cutting off access to the ballot for the elderly. many who don't have driver's licenses as well as for young voters. that's what you see here and it's shameful and they keep doing it and i would hope some folks would stand up.
>> the u.s. aelections assistance commission, they're confirmed by the senate and help with voting system guidelines. credit testing systems and they certify voting systems. they audit the use of funds to maintain national voter registration forms. all sorts of things. these are things that are designed to make it better, safer and easier for people to vote. not the opposite. >> you would think donald trump, who keeps running his mouth about voter fraud, you would think that he would come out and endorse this commission. no, they want to fold it under the federal election commission, which we know has always been a joke because when they play games with appointing folks there. so, pretty much. if you don't have a full operating committee, you have no power. this commission is critically important for every voter in america regardless of a party. >> roland i always love having you on. maybe next time i'll get you a topic that you are passionate about.
>> hosting editor of news 1 now. good to see you. >> thanks, ali. making america great again during the white house's made in america week. >> make america great again. he's going to bring jobs in and as far as focusing this week on what he's doing, i think it's great. the more we can highlight american businesses the people know more they can get their stuff made in america is the best for us. >> sounds good. but not that easy. after the break, i'll tell you the cost that comes with beefing up our american made status. it's not a quick fix. it's my decision to make beauty last. roc® retinol started
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. you know, all the people who were saying the mining jobs. well, we picked up 45,000 mining jobs in a short period of time. everybody was saying, well, you won't get any mining jobs. picked up 45,000 mining jobs. the miners are very happy with trump and with pence. >> what you just heard come out of president trump's mouth was a complete exaggeration. it's just not true, no matter how you slice it. if he is talking about coal mining jobs, the president of the united states is rounding up from the actual number of jobs created during his tenure, 800, to the nearest 45,000. by the way, the six months before that under president barack obama's administration. 1300 coal jobs were added. for perspective, this is a job,
a list of coal jobs in the united states, a graph. the u.s. has lost 40,000 coal mining jobs over the last five years. what's likely happened is that donald trump is including all jobs having to do with mining which we're discussing, gas, oil, coal, minerals, quarrying, and throwing in what are called support activities for mining, so all the ancillary, spinoff jobs, doctors, schools, diners. it's mostly oil and gas industries where the number of jobs available depends on the price of oil which is something president trump doesn't control. according to the numbers put out by his own federal government, the bureau of labor statistics. the total number for all the jobs i just listed since donald trump became president is 41,500, still less than the 45,000 that donald trump said. i want to bring in someone who knows jobs and the economy. muhammad alaryan, the chief
economic adviser. it's happy made in america week. the issue is that americans have a struggle between having been addicted to low-priced goods that are manufactured in low-income countries and wanting better jobs that pay more. so we want to manufacture things here, but the things would be more expensive and that's a struggle. how do we square this? >> it's hard because we are, like you point out, both producers and consumers, so we benefit on the consumption side but we get hurt on the producer side. we are battling with three forces. one is self-inflicted wounds. that we should fix. two is globalization that has changed where you produce things and three is technology. this is really hard. there are certain things that you need to fix. but let's not forget that we're being challenged by bigger
forces as well. >> right. so in the years between say 1945 and 1970 when the glory days of the american manufacturing worker, things of value were not being made in china, vietnam and bangladesh and mexico and places like that. the u.s. was at the head of rebuilding europe and japan and all of that. can we replicate a world in which the american manufacturing worker can create value that justifies a high wage? >> we can do somewhat better on manufacturing. we can do a lot better on wages. and the secret is to unleash an economic potential. and that means a couple things. one is better enabling conditions, infrastructure, a better tax system, better education, better skill acquisition, better labor retraining and retooling. this is not an engineering problem, ali, this is a political problem. the second element is we need to build a better fiscal context,
including spending more on infrastructure. we can fix this. it's not going to move the needle a lot on manufacturing but it will move the needle on wages and on the overall economy. >> you talk about technological disruptions. that's worked against coal on two fronts. one, we use natural gas more than coal and the reason we've replaced all these coal workers is due to technology. what do we need to think about when it comes to coal, because the president keeps on talking about it? >> so it's hard. coal in particular is very hard. there are little things you can do, and you can make a difference at the micro-level. but for the reasons you have pointed out it's very hard. we have got to embrace some of these disruptions and use them to our advantage rather than try to deny what they're trying to do. i think the most exciting thing, it's also scary, is that you can disrupt an industry from another world. what airbnb has done to the
hotel industry and uber has done to transportation. we have to embrace this and make sure it benefits overall growth and make growth more inclusive. >> that's something we've not succeeded in doing, but it's a point that we should continue to emphasize. mohammed el-erian, great to see you as always. coming up next. minutes away from the closing bell. we're checking on how markets are responding during made in america week. this response in the market has more to do with the potential failure of health care reform. the dow is not as low as it was earlier in the day but it's off about .3%. we'll be right back. yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job.
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all right. with moments to go until the closing bell, keeping an eye on the markets. the dow is down, about 60 points last we checked. little more than .25%. gaining a bit as we're getting to the closing bell. it was lower earlier today. we'll have that closing bell in about 45 seconds. that does close out the hour for me, though, i think i have to be off the air before the bell rings. i'll see you back tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern and tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. with stephanie ruhle and at 3:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. you can find me on twitter, facebook and instagram @ali velshi and snapchat @velshi. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right
now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. there is big news on the russia this hour. the guest list grows. the identity of other participant in the meeting arranged by donald trump jr. to get dirt on hillary clinton is now known. the "new york times" is reporting that the latest name to surface is that of ike kaveladzee who was sent to make sure that the favor was executed. today news that donald trump jr. and paul manafort, who were in the meeting, have been cleared by special counsel bob mueller to testify in public. first to the republicans' big fail. the senate republican health care bill all but died. trump is in denial at this point, and he is not taking the fall. >> i don't think it's dead, no, but i'm certainly disappointed for seven years i have been hearing repeal and replace from congress and i have been hearing it loud and