tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC July 18, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
live. this current effort is to make the whole notion of an on camera briefing seem rare and less like the norm. the norm, of course, we have traditionally been allowed to see the daily briefing on camera. that's our broadcast for tonight. audio and video. thank you for being here with us. good night from msnbc headquarters in new york. the republican effort to kill obamacare, that effort appeared to die a hard and unexpectedly sudden death. this time during our show last night. well, today, the republicans came back, they tried two separate times to bring it back, to revive that effort. both of those efforts appear to have also failed today. that means that republicans
broadly very well and truly have failed in their effort to repeal obamacare and to repeal the affordable care act. more coming up later on in the show tonight, including some news about how opponents of what the republicans are trying to do are really not taking time off to celebrate here. they are keeping the pressure turned up high and hot on republican senators to try to keep this thing dead now that it has died. again, more to say about that tonight. a lot of reporting to do on that this evening. i have to say, big picture, though, even as we're following this sort of day to day and hour by hour now, just stepping back from this for a second, this is a remarkable place we have ended up. in this last election, republicans got control of the senate, they got control of the house and got control of the white house and even with that total control in washington, they really are about to hit six months in power, which i think they hit on thursday of this week. by the end of this week, it will be six months in power with
republicans in power of all branches of government and they have not passed a single substantial piece of legislation. i mean, they can pass anything they want to zero democratic votes. they only have to line up votes in their own party. and still they have passed nothing. i mean, even this one thing they campaigned on for seven straight years and practiced doing impotently dozens of times while president obama was in office, they do not appear to be able to do it. we're tracking this story day by day and hour by hour and we'll have more on that ahead tonight as the opponents deep pressure on. as the republicans who appear to have lost this fight as they continue to hunt for votes. but big picture story here is just flabbergasting in terms of this turn in american politics. so that's ahead. also, news coming up tonight about the clown car of previously undisclosed russians who were all apparently at that
trump tower meeting last summer involving trump's eldest son and jared kushner and paul manafort. we've got some really interesting news coming up on that meeting now. turning into a point of focus for investigators and what is also turning out to be unexpected serious leverage that investigators might have over at least one and possibly two of the participants in that meeting. i know you've heard a little bit today about there being an eighth man in that meeting and the identity of the eighth man. you've probably heard a little bit of that today. you have not heard what we are about to report on that. so we've got that coming up ahead tonight. but we're going to start tonight with this late-breaking news. so -- this is a little window into my work day. whole staff is working away today, cubicle farms are humming. we know what we're doing. we're working on the show. i'm in my office threatened to be buried under piles of paper, as usual.
we're all working away like we usually do. by this point, almost six months into the trump administration, we as a staff are now used to big stories about the trump administration breaking late in the day and then we have to throw our plans out the window and start to cover instead what the other new bombshell is. we're used to that. but even with the fact that we are used to that timing now and to stuff breaking late in the day, when these headlines popped tonight, when this story first crossed, trump/putin held a second undisclosed meeting at the g20. when this started to cross our newsroom, it caused an audible oh my god to cross our cubicle farm. oh, my god. seriously? i guess we should not be surprised anymore. we should have expected something like this. but still, this is remarkable news and this is about, of course, the g20 meeting that
took place a week and a half ago in germany. and the first face-to-face one on one contact with vladimir putin as president of russia. that meeting ended up being itself pretty unusual. it went on for more than two hours and after that unusually long meeting was over, the russians held an on-camera briefing for the press about what happened in that meeting while the united states did not do that. now, the russians briefing the press after the meeting and the americans not briefing the press, "the narrative about what happened behind closed door." so the official meeting, it was unusually long. more than four times its scheduled length. it ended with just the russians briefing the press on what happened.
but now on top of that we are learning that there was a second meeting at that same event. and you know, the first peep about this as a possibility had actually been the day after the meeting. the saturday after at the end of the story that they reported on the g20 that day, buzzfeed news mentioned in their article about the g20 that they had heard from a single source that there might have been an additional long chat between donald trump and vladimir putin that hadn't been disclosed by the white house but now today it has broken wide open. ian bremmer will describe his sources. but he's reporting that, in fact, in addition to that formal meeting that went on for two hours, even though it was only scheduled for half an hour, trump and putin then thereafter had a second long meeting later
that night. that took place over the course of about an hour. and in what's being described as a fairly significant breach of national security norms and protocols, it was apparently only vladimir putin's translator who was present for and participating in that meeting. in the discussions between trump and putin, there was just the russian translator. there was no american translator, nor were there any other american staff member who is were taking part in those discussions. that is a very unusual thing. and then there's the fact that the white house didn't tell anybody that the second meeting happened. you have to imagine, put yourself in the shoes of anybody who works at the white house. you have to imagine if there's one thing this white house might be aware of by now, it's that undisclosed contacts between americans associated with donald trump and russian officials, particularly at the highest levels. that's something that is of intense interest in this country. but still, the white house never mentioned it.
they never mentioned that there had been this second long meeting until ian bremmer broke the news and then the white house belatedly confirmed it tonight. joining us now is ian bremmer. thank you for being here. >> sure, rachel, my pleasure. >> so for folks wondering what the eurasia group, tell us what that is and who you are. >> sure. i'm a political scientist. the world's largest political risk who look at how politics affects markets all over the world. >> political risk consultancy. how did you come to know about this meeting that the white house didn't discuss? >> i don't want to tell you who directly told me, but this is a meeting of the principals, the g20s heads of state, their spouses, most in attendance. it was a long dinner, almost 3 1/2 hours.
i know a lot of people in that group and many of them, including all of america's principle allies, they found it remarkable. they were concerned by it. it was noteworthy and so it got out. and i personally was quite surprised that there was no readout on it whatsoever after the meeting happened and so, as a consequence, especially since trump himself and there's been so much talk about what was and was not discussed in the broader formal meeting, the two-hour meeting that you just spoke about, did they talk about sanctions, the hacks, did he push them, did they not, ukraine, all of that. none of that matters if they then had an hour one on one at the dinner with only the russian translator. we have no idea what was in that conversation. >> now, when you described that
as a one-on-one, while you're talking, we have pictures from the dinner. is it -- should we think of the second meeting that you're describing as being something where they were separate and apart from everybody else at the dinner? were other people at a position where they could overhear what was being said? >> i don't know if we should call it a meeting. it's a dinner. the dinner was 3 1/2 hours long. very long. not everyone that was supposed to attend actually showed up. there were a number of empty seats and halfway through the dinner, trump gets up, goes around the table, sits down next to putin and has -- begins this conversation. everyone that was there -- this was in full view of all of these heads of state and their spouses and it was very animated. it was extremely friendly. there was certainly a lot of hand motion going on between the two leaders, the two presidents. but no one knows what -- they were out of earshot.
the russian translator has a tape -- and i think there's probably a reasonable likelihood that he does, then nobody else is going to have a readout of this meeting. >> how unusual -- on that point of the translator, how unusual is it for the president of the united states to have a one-on-one lengthy discussion with a foreign head of state using only that country's translator with no american translator participating in the discussion? >> apparently, president nixon used to do it because he felt -- he didn't really trust the state department at that point providing the translators and didn't want information getting out, leaking that he would want to keep private. >> wow. >> interesting historical point. >> uh-huh. >> but given the fact, given how unusual the trump/putin relationship has been, how notably and consistently warmly both of these leaders have taken every opportunity to be towards each other, both publicly and as we see privately, the fact that you would have this kind of a meeting in front of all of these leaders, the first g20 summit
that trump himself had attended with american allies already unnerved that their relationship, their private bilaterals, phone calls with president trump leads them worrying, can we really count on the united states in terms of nato, security, global trade, climate, values, you name it, to then show that by far his personal relationship is with country that many of them consider to be antagonist and at least until trump became president, the united states did as well. that's unusual and disconcerting for american allies around the world and it certainly -- despite the fact that trump tweeted that it's fake news, it's a real story. >> yeah. anytime the president has just tweeted that something is fake news, we just consider that to be a day that ends in why around here. one last quick question for you, mr. bremmer, on the point of the white house not doing a readout of this, not explaining what
happened in this discussion, it seems to me, just as an observer of these things, that the white house almost always or always does a readout of any discussion that the president has with a foreign head of state. particularly if it's not one held in secrecy, if it's held in full view of other people so they can tell that some discussion happened. are you saying that that, too, the fact that there was no white house readout or discussion about what happened, that also is very unusual here? >> i think it depends. i mean, certainly when you have meetings like this, big summits, it's not unusual for a couple of leaders with business to discuss to take each other aside five minutes, ten minutes, that sort of thing. but given the unusual nature of the trump presidency, the uniquely unusual nature of the trump/putin relationship and the length of this meeting that they chose not to disclose, given the controversy around the broader disclosed meeting, public meeting as it were, this all strikes me as exceptionally unusual.
and something that is not going to go away anytime soon. >> ian bremmer, president of the eursia group who brought this to national attention tonight, thank you for being here. >> my pleasure, rachel. thanks. >> yeah. like i said, the news came across second undisclosed meeting between trump and putin. my office is like here and my executive producer's office is here and the other offices for everybody who works on the staff kind of splay around the corner like this. i heard it like a stadium wave made audible. oh, my god, oh, my god, did you see this? oh, my god. today's news. we'll be back. stay with us. e was born to move over the course of 9 days he walks 26.2 miles, that's a marathon. because he chooses to walk whenever he can. and he does it with support from dr. scholl's.
only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. so he even has the energy to take the long way home. keep it up, steve! dr. scholl's. born to move. deliit's perfection.ruit. seriously? an epic soundtrack? is there any other way? that's what a smoothie should taste like. visit a store today for fresh fruit smoothies and summer deals. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.
yeah, and i can watch thee bgame with directv now.? oh, sorry, most broadcast and sports channels aren't included. and you can only stream on two devices at once. this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens.
ibm stands for international business machines. this company was called ibc, which stood for international business creations. and what they did was they created a lot of businesses. like 2,000 of them. that was their business. creating other businesses. the way it worked was you would give them $350 and they would create a business for you. they'd create a company for you. if you gave them another $450, your company would also get a bank account. this itself was the purpose of international business creations. they made over 2,000 companies, opened at least 236 different bank accounts. we don't know who any of the
people are, for whom they formed these companies and for whom they opened these bank accounts. we do know, because of congressional investigations into international business creations in the 1990s, that the guy who ran ibc, the guy who ran that company, said that, quote, his company's clients consistent entirely of brokers in russia who make requests for the creation of corporations. the president of ibc said the bank accounts were formed to move money out of russia. so as money laundering scams go, when the president of the company says, yeah, i'm doing this to get money out of russia, i mean, this is like cut right to the punch line. this is a flagrant money laundering scam. the guy told him, yeah, i know who these companies are and who is holding these bank accounts
but admitted when congressional investigators came calling that he actually didn't know, that he couldn't cough up the names of these people in whose names he had done all of this paperwork. we don't even know how many people he was acting on behalf of. we do know that at city bank he applied for cards in the names of 50 different russians, all of whom he said lived at his office address in delaware. ultimately, citi bank closed all accounts that had to do with this and commercial bank of san francisco, the response of commerce bank when they came calling about the phantom russian bank accounts, they shut down the entire international banking division and then the bank very quickly seized ceased to exist. the congressional report on this
flagrant money laundering scam was called suspicious banking activities. it was a report that was created at the request of carl levin in october of the year 2000 and this report, because what it described was so flagrant, it made ibc, international business creations and citi bank and commercial bank of san francisco. it made this scam, basically this poster child for money laundering in the united states. the conclusion of the report was this giant red flag for congress telling them how easy it is. that's the word they used. for foreign individuals and entities to launder money through u.s. banks. money laundering, of course, is
illegal. to hide the origins of illegally obtained money, by moving it around through different entities, that's illegal. under u.s. law, banks that suspect that their bank is being used for money laundering, they have to report it. the way banks are supposed to know if money laundering is going on in their bank, they are supposed to follow the know your customer policy. you're not supposed to open up a bank account at your bank unless you know the individual person opening it up. you validate that they are a human being. you validate that they are a person whose identity you understand and you've checked them out. quoting from that congressional report, know your customer policy generally commit the financial institution to verify a customer's identity, to determine the customer's source of wealth, to review the character and understand the
type of transactions that the customer would typically conduct. that is what banks were supposed to be doing. when international business creations came to them and said we'd like to open 2,000 bank accounts, yeah, we know who they are. that's what the banks are supposed to be doing with these thousands of russian companies. clearly, they were not doing that. and the eye-popping bottom line of that congressional investigation into ibc and city bank and commercial bank of san francisco, that whole scam, the eye-popping bottom line was that because these banks didn't implement the know your customer policies, because they were knowingly or unknowingly being used by this russian laundering scam between citibank and commercial bank, they have laundered $1.4 billion. billion with a "b." $1.4 billion in the '90s. all money taken out of russia and cleansed to appear like legit money through the magical power of the supposedly unassailable american banking system. so ibc, citibank, commercial bank, that scam they were running, that was the poster child for russian money
laundering. october 2000 was that report. a year after that report came out, so that would be immediately in the wake of 9/11, the u.s. government decided to change the rules about banking and money laundering and after 9/11, they changed the rules so that the know your customer policy at u.s. banks, it's no longer a voluntary compliance thing where you tell people that's what you're doing, it's mandatory. it's a law. banks have to do it. so the guy who was the head of international business creations, who opened up those 2,000 unknown companies and the dozens of citibank cards who thereby moved $1.4 billion through this scheme involving u.s. banks, that guy, the president of ibc, we learned today he was also at that meeting in trump tower last june. the one that involved the trump
campaign chair and jared kushner and donald trump jr. cnn had been first to report last night that there was an eighth person who still had not been named who was at that meeting. "the washington post" was first to report his name. and i know this has now been incrementally rolled out. we are all frog soup. we're all boiling over time. but if you step back from this a second, what we now understand about this is that this means that during the campaign, this meeting at trump tower, which was described by the white house and still described by the white house yesterday was a meeting about adoptions, this meeting was set up by the publicist for a putin-linked russian oligarch and the publicist had just been in russia and four days after he got back, he sent this e-mail to donald trump jr. promising russian government documents and information from the top federal prosecutor in russia who is known to be very close to vladimir putin. he said he's got this russian government dirt on hillary clinton. he asks for a meeting to discuss it. he gets the meeting in person,
not just with the president's eldest son but jared kushner and the chairman of the trump campaign and this emissary from moscow who supposedly had the incriminating information about hillary clinton that she reportedly left at the meeting. she's a kremlin-linked lawyer and said she was in fact on this working with the top federal prosecutor in russia, very close to vladimir putin. along with her, there was also a translator, there was also a long-time russian-american political operative who has been named in a major lawsuit about predatory hacking of a russian mining corporation. also we know it included the apparent poster child for money laundering in u.s. banks, a dual national named ike, forgive me,
kavalatze, maybe? maybe that's how you say it? he reportedly was there as a representative of the putin-linked oligarch who trump had meetings with in russia who publicist set up the meeting and we're told the oligarch's publicist was there as well. you take all of that together and that means, a, the clown car is getting very crowded. b, there's an interesting question as to why the -- our understanding of this meeting, why all of these names are rolling out so slowly over time. it was four people in the meeting and then five people in the meeting and then six people in the meeting and then seven people in the meeting, including the guy with the military intelligence background. now it's eight people in the meeting. including the money laundering guy. if this is in fact the last name
we're going to get in terms of who attended this meeting, why was the money laundering guy's name the last person leaked? why was he not mentioned before now? >> senator warner, can i get your reaction? >> it's very disturbing to me. it's taken us this long for this kind of information to come out. so this individual who has had a colorful past if not potentially criminal, it is very strange to me that this meeting that was supposed to be originally related as three or four people about russian adoptions, i doubt if this individual who's had a history of setting up thousands of fake accounts in delaware was really there to talk about russian adoptions. so what we see here is, again,
senior levels of the trump administration and now the trump family not coming clean with information and this has been a week before we've got this -- why was that cast of character there is? >> has anybody reached out to you about these meeting? >> we're in the process of continuing to reach out but as we continue to find more individuals, i wonder how many more people are going to -- how many more people will show up in that room at one point or another. >> you're unaware of -- >> i was unaware until the last 24 hours that this eighth individual who at least based on press reports has had a very colorful past. >> reporter: do you feel like you understand everything that happened at that trump tower meeting at this point? >> no, absolutely not. there's a lot to learn and we've reached out to the appropriate people and have asked them to provide information for us. >> so that's the leaders of the
intelligence committee, both the top democrat and republican, the chair, saying they had no idea about this eighth guy in the meeting before now. and as i mentioned, his name was not publicly reported until today. last night, cnn reported that such a person might exist. we got the name today. what's important about that timing is that even before the intelligence committee knew about this, they say they are just learning about it now, even before there was any public reporting about this, which we're just getting today, even before that, you know who knew about this? and who knew about this guy by name, special counsel robert mueller. a lawyer for the putin-connected oligarch in russia, he tells "the washington post" that staffers for robert mueller, the special counsel, contacted him this weekend asking if they could speak with mr. international business creations. asking if they could speak with the eighth man in the meeting and they were asking for him by
name. and that means that however exciting and occasionally bewildering it is to cover the aggressive reporting going out day by day, new details they try to keep under wraps, the special counsel investigation is apparently ahead of all of us because mueller knew about this guy and knew who this guy was before the intelligence committee knew about it. how did the special counsel learn about it? who told them? i don't know. we've asked the attorney for donald trump jr. if perhaps donald trump jr. was in contact with any investigators on this matter, not just congressional investigators but potentially mueller's office. so far, we've had no response from mr. trump's attorney. we'd love to hear from you. you have our number. who else might know about that might have been able to tell the special counsel? well, who else was in the meeting? paul manafort was described in "the new york times" this past weekend as having, quote, mentioned the meeting to congressional investigators but at least the congressional investigators on the
intelligence committee say they've never heard of this eighth guy before today. it doesn't sound like manafort told them about him. the other reporting that's happened about this meeting, we're told, is on jared kushner's revised, revised, revised again application for a federal security clearance. we don't know how much detail mr. kushner might have provided on his security clearance application about this trump tower russia meeting let alone on any subsequent revisions on his application but it was reported last night that if bob mueller decided to bring felony charges against jared kushner for making intentionally false statements on his application for security clearance, for deliberately leaving stuff off of that application because he was potentially trying to hide evidence about meetings that he had had or contacts that he had had, if robert mueller wanted to bring a prosecution against jared kushner for that, he would have one tool in his arsenal that is sharp and ready.
ready to go for that kind of prosecution. the highest profile felony prosecution in recent years of a person who made misrepresentations on his or her applications force security clearance is a prosecution handled last year in the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york in conjunction with the fbi. the person they prosecuted was a dea agent who made misrepresentations on his security clearance application. that dea agent was tried and convicted last year and tried and sentenced in february and one of the lead prosecutors on that case is named andrew goldstein. and andrew goldstein just left the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york to go join robert mueller in the special counsel investigation. so if mueller wants to prosecute, somebody for lying on the application for security clearance, he knows just the prosecutor to go through for that. so bottom line, we now know the names of eight people at that meeting.
we now know that robert mueller's investigation is out ahead of the congressional investigations and out ahead of anything else that might be reported in the press. in terms of who might be squeezable on this subject because of their own liability, there are very upfront concerns about jared kushner who is a current government official who is a current security clearance that has a bulls-eye on it because of this meeting and other things he didn't disclose when applying for that clearance. so that's one point of leverage. i want to make one last point here. there may be another significant point of leverage on one other person, at least one other person in that meeting. chuck grassley, the chair of the judiciary committee in the senate, he released this information about the immigration file for one of the dual russian citizens. not the one we learned about today but the guy with the military intelligence background, rinat akhmetshin,
who has the russian military intelligence background. senator grassley alleges in his letter today that akhmetshin may have misrepresented his own past with the russian intelligence on his various applications to enter the united states. again, he's now a dual u.s./russian citizen. if his citizenship is going to be put at risk because of improper disclosures, you might expect that that would be another major point of leverage that investigators could have on him if they are going to try to get him to talk in that meeting. that's separate and apart from the money laundering guy. i wonder if investigators will have any leverage over him. watch this space. because we don't like surprises. yeah. like changing up the celebrity at the end to someone more handsome. and talented.
really. and british. switch from cable to directv. get 4 rooms with hd, dvr, and every box included for $25 a month. theto me than my vacation.tant so when i need to book a hotel, i want someone who makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. c'mon, gary! your vacation is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we're booking.yeah! if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, and your symptoms have left you with the same view, it may be time for a different perspective. if other treatments haven't worked well enough,
ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works by focusing right in the gi-tract to help control damaging inflammation and is clinically proven to begin helping many patients achieve both symptom relief as well as remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. while not reported with entyvio, pml, a rare, serious brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections, or have flu-like symptoms, or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn's medication isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. entyvio. relief and remission within reach.
if russia decided to interfere with our presidential election because they wanted something, because they wanted to change the world to more like what they want, what are the things they might try to get from the united states? what could she conceivably get from the united states if they could wave a magic wand? and have they been getting any of it? this was our first back of the envelope calculation, first guess of what might be a russia wish list. russia might like the united states to be isolated in the world and the west to be fractured. they certainly want to be
released from u.s. sanctions, which they hate. they would like to decide what happens in syria. russia has resented for years, for decades what they see as the meddling of the u.s. state department in their affairs. i'm sure they'd like to hit the state department and render the u.s. state department inert. they want their seized u.s. properties back, the ones that obama took away from them in response to them hacking our election. and speaking of them hacking our election, they presumably would like continued ability to do stuff like that, continued intelligence operability to mess with us at will. the unnerving thing about that list, of all of those things, russia has at least made progress towards getting since the u.s. election in which they interfered. and now we're learning that there are boxes on that check
list we didn't even know existed, stuff we didn't even guess they might want. it looks like those boxes are getting ticked, too. republicans in congress are moving ahead to kill the election assistance commission. what's the election assistance commission? it's the agency that works to ensure our voting process is secure. all right. who needs that? definitely time to close that agency down. our elections are obviously totally secure. who knew that less election security could even be a box on the russia wish list. we knew they wanted to be allowed to keep doing what they were doing, right, messing with us, however they want to mess with us. but now we're really going above and beyond. we're like a family that has decided to respond to it by removing our doors. we'll do even less to secure our election if republicans get their way. we also learned that the top cybersecurity official at the state department is leaving. politico reports that he, quote,
has been leading american delegations to international cybermeetings since 2011 and developing cybernorms. his departure may complicate the state department's task of delivering an international cyberstrategy. again, what could be more happy making for america's voice on cyberissues to be silenced, to be good-byed? another item on the wish list, another wishful filled, we're going to have to start using a smaller font on our list. whole that thought. whoooo.
when a fire destroyedwith us everything in our living room. we replaced it all without touching our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that. no. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. six of you for when thyou stretch out.t i want you to stay this bright blue forever, that's why you'll stay in this drawer forever. i can't live without you, and that's why i'll never ever wash you. protect your clothes from stretching, fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner. fading and fuzz with downy fabric conditioner. it smooths and strengthens fibers to protect clothes from the damage of the wash.
so your favorite clothes stay your favorite clothes. downy fabric conditioner. joining us tonight is wendy sherman, the former undersecretary of state for the obama administration. thank you for being here. >> delighted to be here. >> we've had you for short stints in the past but i feel like i need to have a slightly more in-depth conversation with you because i feel like i'm starting to feel big thoughts and it's making me feel humble and shy about my conclusions. i have worries about the state department being diminished, being rendered inert and in some ways dismantling itself. not necessarily as a project that has any goal towards strengthening the united states that i can discern. do you think those worries are fair? >> i think those worries are very fair.
it's very interesting, the list of what you have of what russia is getting. russia aside it certainly has implications for our ability to do diplomacy. diplomacy works in the world but it takes a team of people to get it done and what we're seeing is secretary tillerson sort of responding to the president who, as the ceo of this family organization says cut, cut, cut and having been a ceo of an organization where he says cut, cut, cut, that he in fact is doing just that. he's also an engineer looking at the boxes and moving them around and very, very concerning things are happening, like wanting to get rid of the bureau of population migration and refugees which really worries about what happens to people around the world. that is a really strong tool of american diplomacy. >> and a huge national security issue. >> as you noticed, he's closing down the cyberoffice. chris painter and i sat down
years ago and started to figure out what strategy ought to be to start to look at something that we were all just beginning to understand and think about and has become obviously a staggering tool that we have spent a lot of time on in the situation room and we all live in the cloud now, which you know well, and the security around the cloud is not so secure. >> so the only issue that i would take with that portrait that you just painted of what's been going on, i feel like secretary of state tillerson is not just responding to the president saying, i want you to get down to a smaller number in terms of bottom line. this president is not particularly budget sensitive. he's called for large increases in military spending and his overall budget doesn't do anything near what he said it would do in terms of numbers. i see with rex tillerson an enthusiasm. >> absolutely. >> for hollowing out the state department. there was concern that people at the state department were
leaving and they weren't replacing them. that has gone on and on and on for months now. it appears that maybe those are jobs that will never exist again in the state department. >> i think he's an enthusiast. he believes in using attrition as a way to get those numbers down but even more concerning and going to what you've been talking about this evening, we have believed there's a community of nations that we have to create an international order and the united states wants to be the champion of that order. we want to write the rules so people play by rules that are in our interests and the world's interests. the trump administration, starting with the president and i think secretary tillerson as well, believe in what national security adviser mcmaster and economic adviser cohen wrote, which is that we're not a community of nations. we're just a bunch of competing agendas. we all have to look after our self-interests. that's what vladimir putin wants
as well. he talks about it in terms of spheres of influence and there's great concern that we're going to trade away our influence our leadership and give vladimir putin something he wants. >> that idea of a sort of short sharp shock community of nations fighting each other in that way, noncommunity of nations, but rather a system of competition where everybody is fighting for their way, that's not just a radical change in the way america sees itself in the world. when you say that's how putin sees the world, does that mean that we're allying ourselves with a model of international competition that putin has championed? we're sort of getting on board his view of the world instead of retaining our own? >> it certainly feels that way. the real anxiety about this is that we will find ourselves down a path to war. i don't want to sit here and be a warmonger. i believe in diplomacy backed up by a credible threat of force.
i think it is very important for our tools to work together. but whether it is what is happening in north korea or not happening in north korea, what we're doing in terms of the gulf states and the infighting going on there, the fight with iran which is ongoing, and even though the president recertified iran deal. he said bad people have to take care of their bad things. we may find ourselves inadvertently marching down to war to protect those interests. >> ambassador wendy sherman, i have one other question that i want to ask you. could you stay here for just a moment? it is about this second meeting between president trump and president putin that was not disclosed by the white house. could you stick around? >> yes. >> she joins us for the interview. she'll be with us when we get right back. and now it's finall
the mercedes-benz summer event is back, with incredible offers on the mercedes-benz you've always longed for. but hurry, these shooting stars fly by fast. lease the c300 for $399 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. its witnessed 2 diy duos,s 31 crashes,: 4 food fights, and the flood of '09. it's your paradise perfected with behr premium plus paint. the best you can buy starting under $25. only at the home depot.
joining us once again is wendy sherman. madam ambassador, thank you, again. >> thank you, rachel. >> we got this news tonight that in addition to their formal meeting at g20 which we knew about previously, putin and trump had an additional long one on one discussion that took place at a meeting but not -- sorry, at a dinner. later that evening at the g20.
and what sounds unusual to me is just an observer, is that only putin's translator was involved in that discussion? no u.s. officials involved in that other than trump. and that white house didn't disclose the meeting or give a read-out about it. is that just strange or is that worrying? >> it is absolutely worrying. if it were, as ian said at the top of your hour, if it was a five or ten minute pull-aside, that happens all of the time. that's what you use those dinners for. to have a little say. set up a meeting. follow up on something. but an hour-long conversation with only one translator, the president of the united states has no idea what vladimir putin really said to him or what got translated back to vladimir putin. >> so the translator issue isn't just a technical thing. there are security concerns about that? >> grave security concerns. absolutely. >> wendy sherman, former undersecretary of state for political fairs in the obama administration. thank you. appreciate your time. >> thank you. for your heart...
your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. ...is not just something you can see or touch.
home...is a feeling. it's the place where you feel safe to have those little moments that mean everything. at adt, we believe that feeling should always be there. whether it's at your house, or your business, we help keep you safe. so you can have those moments that make you feel at home. ♪you are loved wherever you are. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.
so the senate hasn't gone home. which means with every hour from now until then, we will see if another vote turns up. senate majority leader, top republican mitch mcconnell, announced he no longer wanted to try to repeal and replace obamacare since that effort died. instead he was going to scrap the replace part and just go whole hog on repealing it all together. just get rid of it. don't replace it with anything. cbo reports that approach would
cause 32 million americans who have health insurance right now to lose all health insurance. that means 1 out of every 10 people in the country would lose all health insurance coverage. three senators said they that stopped that idea dead in its tracks. senator mcconnell insists the senate will vote on full repeal next week and he doesn't have the votes he needs. you need like four arms and several additional opposable thumbs to juggle every piece of this moving puzzle. but people, we'll keep an eye on what is going on in the senate for now until it is dead and dusted. see you, that's it for tonight. see you tomorrow night. good evening. >> good evening, rachel. you rep the ambassador -- >> oh, to china. >> president obama's ambassador to china about which president trump once tweeted jon huntsman