tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC July 24, 2017 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
that does it for this hour of msnbc live, kacie hunt picks things up right now. >> good afternoon, i'm in for katie turr. it is 2:00 here in washington and we're following breaking news. jared kushner delivering a rare statement before cameras just a few minutes ago. >> let me be clear, i did not collude with russia and i don't know of anyone in the campaign who did sho. i had no improper contacts. i did not rely on improper funds
for my businesses. i have been fully compliant in providing all information. >> and staffers, behind closed doors, kushner, a man of few words in public released an 11 page statement detailing what he says were his contacts with russians in the campaign and in russia. it brings us to our word of the day, collude. >> jared kushner expected to deliver a strongly worded statement today insisting he did not collude with russians. >> mr. kushner, was it appropriate for you to meet with russian officials. did anyone with the campaign collude with russia. >> he wants to get the message out there that he has nothing to
hide. >> there was no collaboration or cooperation with anyone. >> it is just day one of two on the hill for kushner tomorrow he will be under oath, and his father-in-law spent the morning, as he often does, tweeting. saying why are the investigators not looking into crooked hillarys crimes. the attorney general who may be replac replaced. but we have our team of reor thors with us here to debrief. joining me now is the nbc news white house kristen welker, and also washington post white house bureau chief phillip rucker. kristen, let's start with kushner. what was the most important things he had to say today?
>> there was a couple of take aways. you heard him say i did not collude with russians and he is not aware of collusion by any other trump campaign officials. as you pointed out at the top of the show, this is someone that we have not seen or heard from a lot. it was remarkable to hear him making those comments. not the 11 page statement he offered behind closed doors to members of the senate intelligence committee. the staff members that posed tough questions to him today. i think his written take aways -- he talked about four meetings he had with russians including two that have gotten a lot of attention. he said this was such a short meeting, he didn't even remember the name of the ambassador after the fact, then of course that meeting that we spent so much time talking about with donald
trump junior and the russian attorney, there were other russian officials there. he cams he didn't know what the subject matter of the meeting was, he didn't read the whole exchange that donald trump junior sent to him. the subject line was confidential. he says look, he got to the meeting ten minutes late, talking about russian adoptions, he wanted to leave because he thought it was so point less to be there he asked an assistance to call him on his cell phone so he could use it as a diversion. this is the pushback about anything going on with the private conversations. he also tries to often an explanation about why they didn't contain variation information, he said it was a
mistake of an assistant that submitted the form too quickly. he will be on capitol hill again tomorrow and the questions linger because there are a few inconsistencies that will need to be drilled down on. >> as you point out, he has not said much many public, this is a white house that watches very, very carefully every public appearance that the people make on the president's behalf. what is your sense of whether or not the white house is happy with how things unfolded today. >> i think they feel like he did very well. . i know you tried on capitol hill as we. he smiled and waves, and he didn't veer off course. he acknowledged he is not used to the spotlight, take a listen to a little more of what he said
today. >> i have not sought the spotlight. first in business, now in public service, i always focus on segt and achieving goals and left it to ors to work on media and public perception. since the first questions were raised in march, i have been consistent in seeing i was eager share any information i have with the investigating bodies and i have done so today. the record and documents have i have voluntarily provided now that my actions were proper and occurred in the course of a very unique campaign. >> that is the president's son-in-law really trying to turn the page on this. . the president himself will try to direct the messaging here this average. he will really try to happener the point home. this is as you know a troefrts
that loomed over this administration since day one. they're working hard to try to turn the page, we'll have to see if it works. >> you were outside as he went into the staff meeting. and we understand it was really just the beginning of the process, right? what happens next. they want to try to get him on the record, work their way through this statement of his, and then they will take it back to their bosses. the first people will be richard burr and mark barner, the ranking democrat on the committee, i'm going to track them down to see what we can find out from them. >> we'll have to tag team it, they usually stop by meetings like this, but to our knowledge no senators were present and my
understanding is that democrats in particular only wanted to take this step if they were able to see kushner testify in public if not before them. what is your sense of the pressure right now for kushner to be more public? >> they would definitely like to see him be more public. ron wyden, the most lip rag and the most outspoken member put out a statement, they say we need to be more kierful. lock in the idea that democrats don't trust kushner to play clean pool here. >> phil, i want to ask you, the point or part of the effort here on the part of kushner's team is to make it seem he was she was
free and clear. do you think we have a full story here in his testimony? >> i think we have the full story in the meetings that kushner himself had with officials. he stephed to that detailing the four encounters. what we don't know and perhaps this came up in it the private session with the staff earlier today, what did he communicate to donald trump. what else did kushner learn about meetings that other people on the campaign were having, paul manafort. the encounters that kushner detailed that i assume the senate staff drilled into and that the house members will get into tomorrow as well. >> what is your sense, clearly
kushner has a different set of interests here than donald trump junior. wh who do you think coming out on top here. >> perhaps, i mean look, he is perhaps looking out for himself first and fore most. he has some exposure here. and i think he is trying to clear his name and answer questions that pertain to what he knows about his own meetings and involvement in all of this, if this compromises donald trump junior somehow some way they probably feel like so be it. they are representing jared kushner, he is representing himself in these discussions, not out there defending the president or the president's oldest son. >> kristen welker, garrett,
phil, thank you for being here. >> thank you, kacie. >> now i want to bring in michael kaputo. jared kushner leaned on the same gechbs that we have heard from donald trump junior. i believe you spoke about it a little bit as well. does it explain away everything that happened. >> of course not, but the term he used is unique. i have seen it described as many different things. it is absolutely the first campaign of his time. we knew it would be unusual and untethered in a lot of ways when he walked down the stairs, and he won, there is more mistakes made in those kinds of environments. . it was not as buttoned down and focused group as other campaigns in the past, and i'm satisfied
with the explanations they have giving for these meetings they have had. >> he said he didn't read it initially, it was on his calendar as between him and donald junior. you worked with him in private settings, is he the kind of guy that would skip an e-mail like that? it seems care less. >> i don't think it is when you consider the tenor and the volume of what was coming across in those days via e-mail in the campaign. they did not have in-house council, you might balk this kind of subject life off to. i think it is just as likely that the participants in that
meeting might have thought it was about bill clinton giving a $500,000 speech. and hillary clinton approaching saling of yew rauranium to russ. i don't know why anyone would have thought immediately that the russian government was trying to influence the campaign. >> so kushner in the course of these investigations, don junior has taken most of the heat for this. i want to show you what they said on "the today show" and we will talk about it. >> donald trump junior is the one that initiated the meeting and brought individuals into the meeting.
>> how does the intense scrutiny on the meeting complicate the relationship between the two men here? >> i don't think it is people talking about jared throughing don junior under the bus. he said he would have done it differently if he had another opportunity. i think he was just endorsing what donald trump said. i think that everyone inside the family and all of the people in the campaign, we all know there was no russian collusion and we all know the facts in the end will point this out and i think jared kushner just repeating what donald trump junior said about the nexus of the meeting was not a way to throw him under the bus.
>> when you came out afterwards, you said it is starting to feel like a rigged game and urged people forgive me if you hear the noise behind me. we're at a public building out here at capitol hill, what would you say to trump associates asked to testify in closed session. >> first, when i was in my closed session with the house, i thought i was treated very professionally. they were firm and direct. it was a fair situation. in fact in nation media, i thought it was smart to move forward. and jaky spear and the select committee on intelligence that did not attend the hearing who wasn't there says i lied to congress. if they can smear things without
attending the meeting everyone is at risk. the senate side is more direct and more professional. but but a democratic member that never attended the hearing can say something about what jared kushner says tomorrow, i think, you know, that shows it is a rigged game. anyone that goes before the house, and a closed hearing, is taking a risk. former campaign advisor michael caputo, thank you for taking the time today. >> thank you. >> next, is sessions out, and is giuliani in? we have a suggestion for a potential justice department shake up, that's next. [brother] any last words?
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rudy giuliani to replace him. the president sent out this tweet appearing to go after sessions again. why are they not looking into crooked hillary's crimes. he revealed there was two meetings with kisliak. thank you for spending time with us today. first of all, this white house obviously known for talking about a lot of things that don't necessari necessarily come to pass. >> he floated this in the pass that he would replace people and he hadnsn't. he is becoming more questioning of people and turning to people
of his past. we have seen an increasing pressure on jeff sessions and i would not be surprised if he tried to urge him to resign. >> is there a sense that if he did that he would get what he wanted from giuliani. >> they need someone impartial and he is not impartial. he was a supporter of donald trump from the beginning of the campaign, and it is extremely difficult for him to get 50 republican senators to vote for him. >> i remember in the initial fa phase there was a lot of push back saying don't make us vote to confirm rudy julianny, there is too much there. >> definitely, it is this idea
of getting ee erid of jeff sess and it would be julian oule jug. his stop and frisk policies did not sit well with many senators himself. so i don't think he will get the votes to replace sessions. >> appreciate it, up next, presidential pardons, trump says he has complete power, but is that true? jack knocked over a candlestick, onto the shag carpeting... ...and his pants ignited into flames, causing him to stop, drop and roll. luckily jack recently had geico help him with renters insurance.
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welcome back, i'm kacie hunt. first to maryland where storms cause significant damage. at least one person was hurt and power was knocked out for thousands. >> now to overseas where a u.s. college student has been set free after being detained for a week by chinese officials. detained for allegedly hurting a ta t taxi driver.
and in san antonio, texas, a 10th person died after being found in a sweltering tractor trailer in the parking lot. the driver was in court today and was formally charged. he says he had no idea he was hauling 39 immigrants. now back to the main event, after last week's reports that the president's league team was exploring if he could pardon family and himself, he took to twitter over the weekend. he said we all agree that the u.s. president has complete power to pardon. >> talk is cheap. people can talk about anything. they can use their talk for a purpose of diverted.
if talk is just talk, i say talk is cheap. >> and now the "new york times" is exploring this question, can trump pardon himself. joining me now is charlie savage. also nick ackerman. charlie, i want to start with you, can the president par ddon. >> a question with no answer. no court has ever been able to weigh in on this question. we have had legal speculation on it. it would be a conflict of interest. some say there is nothing in the constitution that says he can't. >> so this has only been tested one or twice in america history,
and i want to go to you, nick. it is a couple months old, how does throwing around the concept of a pardon impact the investigation? >> i don't think it has any practical impact on the investigation. i think they go ahead and do what they have. i think there is no court case on this, our system of justice that really doesn't allow someone to be a judge upon themselves really kind of comes out with a conclusion that really the president can't pardon himself. one, if he were to pardon himself, it information is -- is
really an admission of guilt, and what he is getting into here is an obstruction of justice. you could do something that under normal circumstances would be totally legal and proper, but if you do it with a corrupt intent, an intent to protect yourself and your family, you could be guilty of obstruction of justice. to give you an example, i frequently advise people their best interest is to assert their 5th amendment privilege and not speak to authorities, but if i do it to keep them from talking about me because i committed a crime, that would be an obstruction of justice. here if donald trump were to pardon himself, he is already admitting he wants to get rid of
the russian investigation. he admitted that after firing comey. you already have a corrupt intent and evidence of corrupt intent that he wants to just get rid of that investigation. he is really going to be digging himself in a lot deeper. >> and charlie, you write in the "new york times" while they're understandable to be irrevoca e irrevocable, some believe a president that abuses his pardon power would be subject to prosecution. something that might normally be proper, but is in proper, it is an admission of guilt, and he is just doing it to block the investigation, i could very well see a scenario where he says
look, there is nothing here, this is a witch hunt, it is make news. the whole ridiculous thing it is not as an admission of guilt, not to cover up anything. it is all ridiculous. that would be an argument that would further mud the waters. >> another thing that you wrote about that caught my interest, you found a long middle legal memo that comes out of the ken star case that arguments that the president could be indicted. and you said it is proper, constitutional, and legal for him to indict a president that are not part of and are contrary to the president's official duties. >> so i didn't write that, very
conservative republican prosecutorial team going after a democratic president, coming up with a conclusion that yes, sitting presidents can be indicted. the background consensus for most league experts is informed commentary about what might happen is that president's can't be indicted. there is nothing sol live to point to for that. it is two memos saying we'll nothing in the constitution says this can't happen, but if you think about it, it would interfere with the executive branch abilities to make it less crazy. they thought maybe it could be done, a short memo to that effect, this is really serious. it is 60 pages long, and it takes on the arguments that
really raises the sector how high is this bar? >> i think it is an area we don't know about until it happens. i read through the memo this weekend, it is well reasoned. it has lots of history, relying on the constitution, on past cases, and i think there is a good case to be made for this, no question about it, but it is an unanswered question. >> charlie savage and nick ackerman, thank you both for taking time today. >> thank you, so kushner today, but who will take the hot seat next? a dive into the president's inner circle up next. first we want you to know about stay tuned, a new show powered by nbc news. it airs on snap chat twice a day. if you're always on the go, a
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white house today. he is scheduled to meet with members of the house intelligence meeting, but under oat tomorrow they are still trying to schedule closed door meetings with donald trump junior and paul manafort. they were supposed to testify in a public meeting on wednesday. joining me is the spokes man and senior advisor, and also ron hosco, thank you for joining me today, tara is sounds like jared kushner is in the same camp in dismissing the russia inquirinq. >> it seems he is quite
dismissive. meetings he never disclosed initially. the meeting really under information. a forgotten meeting with a russian translator and a lot of people present, and one of the things worth noting he mentioned a meeting with general flin. if we have not heard why president defended him to the end, so i think the kushner-flynn nexus might be bigger. >> stay with the kushner ann don junior meeting. if you are the former fbi investigator, trying to figure out what happened in that meeting, what are you asking, what can he tell the committee behind closed doors? >> i want to know the
atmospherics. i want to know the set up in it's entirety. i want to know what communication methods were used to set up it so if i'm bob mueller i can track the communications backward, and i certainly want to know both sides of the communications as well. we had some americans in the meeting and some russians in the meeting. bob mueller is certainly going to track back those conversations there as well. what do they think happened, what do they think they were coming into, and who are they talking about to -- >> but talked about the reports of the secret back channel, he said it was the russian ambassadors idea. how common is a question like that? how should we view it is it
something that happens all of the time? >> a few things on that, you may have back door communications for a reason that you're going to be communicating with a foreign government. >> this is a private citizen trying to set up a back door i was put in this role by my father-in-law, i could not keep track of all of these things. i don't have foreign policy or nation n national experience. it is not an excuse. it is not a reason to have your assistant redo your fs 86 form. i'm not really sympathetic to that argument. we don't know the specifics of
it. to be honest, his version of events have continued to change. >> i want to ask you quickly about another person involved in all of this. he was briefly at that meeting, but we now have some reports that the special council is investigating possible money laundering in looking into all of this on manafort's part. what does that mean in the broader context of the investigation? put it in context a little for us? >> i would like to know more about money laundering in what context and what relationship? it could, if it is in the statute of limitations, it could pose a liability to manafort that will allow him to cooperate beyond what we have seen so far in a substantive way because he faces criminal charges for that. it could also illuminate some
other dealingings. i think we heard some reportings about this on president trump's side, too, mueller looking into business relationships. they may give bob mueller a window into who are the closest asian and russian contacts of donald trump and others to start to look at their communications. >> thank you for taking some time today. a check on where that fight stands here on capitol hill, up next. when a fire is going on,
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it will be to talk about repealing and replacing the affordable care act. they will debate legislation that would accomplish that longstanding goal. it's not clear they have the votes to move forward. joining us now is jake sherman, great to see to be here. >> so what's the deal? they didn't seem to have the votes last week. do they have the votes this week? >> it doesn't seem like anything has moved in any serious way. i don't think anyone knows what they're voting on at this point. might not even pass the rules of the senate. so here we are on july 24th with one week left in association and they're no closer to doing something they've said they were going to do for the last seven years. >> and have been trying for the last six months unsuccessfully. what's your sense of where mitch mcconnell versus the white house? what does he want to have to put his members through? >> it's a good question #. the white house wants something. the white house wants to sign something, which if you're trying to lead a party, just saying i want anything on my desk to sign is not necessarily
a great tactic according to people up here. mcconnell has a tough bridge to walk through. he has members that are going to suffer politically from having to take this vote. he has members that need this vote politically. he's trying to just navigate these waters that are incredibly treacherous, unlike anything we've seen in the house. the senate is a difficult beast. it's really a trech rouse environment for them. and the one thing that always sticks out to me about what mcconnell says is he says either we're going to pass it it or we won't. like he's not going to get fij ity -- >> like he's already done with it. >> i don't know about that. but he doesn't get fijty like ryan -- in the house they change the plans all the time. mcconnell is sticking to what he's going todd, keeping his cards very close to his vest and we'll see where it ends up. >> we saw the president citing neeks to dean heller the other day making a joke about him wanting to stay in the senate or
saw a tweet essentially calling out these senators, look, you only won because you rode the wave to the white house. >> it's a very good question. i think a lot of members of congress when they hear from a president, either obama or trump, they say listen, i got elected without you. i was here before you, i'm probably be here after you. so you giving me political advice is not really i'm interested in. plus a lot of these folks out ran trump. they're more popular at home than trump is in many instances. obviously not every instance. so i don't think the preachy approach -- remember, obama did that on things like gun control. he tried the preachy approach i'm going to go to your district and tell your constituents what you should be doing. it doesn't always work. >> so speaking of advice, chuck schumer over the weekend was quoted in the "washington post" as saying, of the campaign last year, when you lose to somebody who has a 40% popularity, you
don't blame other things. comey, russia, you blame yourself. so what can they do wrong? people didn't know what we stood for. just that we were against trump and still believe that. that seems like some pretty sharp words against hillary clinton. >> it is. well, let's unpack it a little bit. there is a reality. hillary clinton was wildly unpopular. her unpopularity numbers were very high. so that's a fact. so schumer is doing a little more than stating fact. i think it's very fascinating. today democrats are rolling out their a better deal alleged, easterlyly similar to a better way which was paul ryan's election year agenda which was in many ways meant to counter the unpopularity of donald trump. and now the entire news cycle has been consumed with jared kushner and kushner is testifying on capitol hill and his speaking at the mikes. and now trump is going to speak about health care in a few minutes like you mentioned at the top. so i'm not sure they're getting the bounce they wanted to from that agenda. this is a real dynamic in talking to people hyped the scenes. the lack of a message is stag
gerg from democrats and mab for a long time. so it's an effort to get it back -- tighten it up a little bit. >> who do you think it in worse shape going into the midterms democrats who are struggling to find a message or republicans who seem splintered down the middle. >> i will say this. i think republicans have institutional advantages that democrats don't have especially in the house. and also, frankly in the senate. a lot of democrats are up in trump states. so without saying it, i think i hope i just gave you an answer. >>ib i believe you did. thanks for taking the time with us. up next, we have one more thing for you. how people on twitter lost their minds over last night's race between michael phelps and a great white.
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one more thing before we go. the human versus the great white, at least that's what people, including me, thought. you may have seen it last night on discovery. michael phelps, the most decorated limp swimmer in history. he holds 12 national records for his speed in the water. went toe to toe or in this case fin to fin against the infamous predator. the goal was to see how a shark's speed compares to humans. and you'll be surprised to learn is that phelps lost. and that's where this story goes off the rails. the liability of putting phelps in the pen with a real sharp not an option. that's obvious. wlong. once it was clear the shark was computer generated, twitter lit up. when you realize phelps isn't actually racing side by side
with a great white shark. i can't be the only one -- sew dispoinld. and yes, 1078 anger, quote, i honestly feel so robbed that i just watched an hour of a stupid show to see michael phelps race a fake shark. hashtag fake news. all of this happened to celebrate shark week. and the annual campaign isn't lost here on capitol hill. earlier today four legd friends to work doning what else, shark kos tumts. i think you can see them. they're so cute. and before i sign off, a quit programming note. be sure to get the premiere of ari's new show the beat. and that wraps things up for us this hour. i'm casey hunt on capitol hill. >> i don't know where to go. you've got sharks. beat. as you know, with ari, the beat is a double enten dra because he's always dropping lyrics when he does his report.
>> i wonder if he'll have puppies. >> if he has puppies, that will complete the picture. >> on capitol hill quite literally. all right. i'm ali very well shee. we're going to be hearing from the president live in about 15 minutes. he's slated to talk about health care from the blue room of the white house. as we speak ses meeting with victims of obamacare. victims of obamacare. that's what the official skenl you'll calls those visitors, anyway. you can bet whatever money u in your pocket right now that reporters are going to be shouting questions about another topic outside of health care, jared kushner his son-in-law and senior advisor because it is day one. just before ten this morning he arrived on the hill with his high-poured criminal defense lawyer for a closed door meeting with senate intelligence committee staff members. the subject meeting with russian officials -- his meeting with russian officials during the 2016 campaign. now, after being questioned for more than an hour, he emernld and here was his