tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC July 25, 2017 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
>> mr. durbin no. mrs. murray? >> no. >> mr. widen? >> no. >> mr. president? >> mr. leahy? >> no. madam president? >> mrs. feinstein? >> no. >> mrs. feinstein no. >> mr. nelson? >> no. >> mr. nelson, no. miss stabenow? >> no. >> miss stabenow no. mr. margin? >> no. >> ms. baldwin? >> no. >> mr. cardin? >> no. >> mr. cardin, no. mr. tester? >> no. >> mr. carper. >> no. >> mr. heinrich? >>. >> mr. heinrich, no. >> mr. donnelly? >> no.
>> mr. cane? >> no. >> mr. cane, no. >> ms. duckworth? >> no. >> ms. duckworth no. mr. franken? >> no. ms. cloeb char, no. mr. reed, no. >> you're watching msnbc, i'm ali velshi, we're watching the vote on the motion to proceed, we will continue to watch this, this is the moment in which the decision is made as to whether this debate can proceed or it is dead. let's listen in. >> mr. murky, no. mr. warner. >> no. >> mr. warner. no. mr. bennett? >> no. >> mr. bennett, no. mr. shots?
>> all right, we are watching this debate under way. there's a group of people at the bottom of the screen. those are people who are waiting to greet senator mccain, who has come back a week after being diagnosed with brain cancer. he has cast a yes vote, we believe, for the most to proceed to debate. there are two republican senators who have cast no votes, senator lisa collins and senator murkowski, those are two senators who have had objections on this bill for some time. if those two senators have voted against it, then we are waiting to see what senator ron johnson of wisconsin is doing right now.
i believe he has voted yes, garrett haake has been following this very closely. is that correct that susan collins and lisa murkowski have voted no and ron johnson has voted yes? >> we are we're headed for a 50/50 tie here once we're finished voting. susan collins has been a hard no from the get no. ron johnson, john mccain were the last two yeses for the republican party, sort of hero moment for mccain on republicans there and ron johnson very much making conservative sweat after he tangled with the majority leader over whether or not he would vote for their motion to proceed after he was extremely frustrated with this process. this will now come down to the vice president to break the tie here, that moves the motion to proceed. think of this sort of sets up the canvass on the floor of the
senate with the original house bill painted on it. they will then paint over it, with a couple of amendments that we expect to see very soon. we expect to see a clean repeal that was promised to conservatives, the 2015 bill they voted on. the senate health care bill that we have talked about. then it's going to be open season on amendments. sort of a wild west atmosphere here, so a big step forward for republicans, but far from the last step and this actually becoming anything that looks like law. >> who are the senators who you have been paying close attention to, who have voted to proceed to debate. but we have still got, i guess it's hard to keep track of what's against it. because we have three different bills that are at play. but what's the rough number of senators who are not satisfied with what they have seen to be a final product so far? >> to me, i think the people to watch are still going to be those moderate senators, last
night in this hallway where i'm standing now, actually, rob portman, lisa murkowski, cory gardner of colorado, they have been part of sort of an informal working group working on part of this bill. off of them have said they won't vote for this bill in any kind of final form unless it addresses their concerns. the same dynamic exists on the floor that has existed in the fast, they want more money, they want more time for the medicaid changes to take effect, if they want them to take effect at all. they are going to drag their feet on these issues, and you've got the four conservatives who came out in a big block early on, saying they want something that looks like real obamacare repeal. >> mike pence has just come to the floor. >> clerk will report the bill. >> calendar number 120,
h.r.-1628 an act to provide for reconciliation pursuant to title 2 of the current budget for fiscal year 2017. >> the senior senator for arizona is recognized. >> i
thank you mr. president, i have stood in this place many times and addressed presidents and many presiding officers, i have been so addressed when i sat in that chair and that's as close as i'll ever get to president. presiding over the senate can be a nuisance, a bit of a ceremony m bore and is usually regulated to the usual members of the majority. i stand here today, looking a little worse for wear, i'm sure, i have a refreshed appreciation
for the protocols of this both and the other 99 privileged souls who have been elected to the united states senate. i have been in the senate for 30 years, i had a long, if not as long career before i arrived here, another profession which was just as rewarding, and i have made friendships which i reve revere, but make no mistake, this job i have here, is the most important job i have had in my life. i thank the people of the great state of arizona for allowing me to serve here, and it plays a small role in the history of the country that i love. i have known and admired men and women in the senate who have played such a large role in our history. statesmen, giants in politics, they come from both parties and various backgrounds, they held
different views on the issues of the day and they often had very serious disagreements on how best to serve the national interest, but they knew however sharp and heart felt their disputes, however keen their -- they clollaboratively worked to -- our responsibilities are important, vitally important to the continued success of our republic, and our arcain rules and regulations are required to function well at all. the most revered members of this institutions, accepted the necessity of compromise in order to make inclemental -- that principal mind set and the
service of our predecessors who possessed it come to mind when i hear the senator referred to as the world's greatest deldelibiv body. i'm sure there are times when it was and i was privileged to witness some of those occasions, our deliberations today, not just our debates, authorizing government policies, appropriating the funds to impmeim implement them. they can be sincere in principle, but they're more partisan, more tribal more of the time than at any time i can remember. our deliberations can still be important and useful. but i think we can all agree,
they haven't been overburdened by service greatly. and right now they aren't producing much for the american people. both sides have let this happen. let's let the history of who shot first to the historians. i suspect they'll find we all -- we have all played some role in it. certainly i have. sometimes i have let my passion rule my reason. sometimes i made it harder to find common ground because of something harsh i said to a colleague. sometimes i wanted to win more for the sake of winning than to achieve a policy. each side can criticize but also accept. just plain muddling through to chip away at problems and keep our enemies from doing their worst isn't glamorous or exciting. it doesn't feel like a political triumph. but it's usually the most we can
expect from our system of government. operating in a country as diverse and quarrelsome and free as ours. considering the injustice and cruelties inflicted by autocratic governments and ow corruptible human nature can be. the problem solving of our country does make possible the fitful process it produces and the liberty and justice it preserves is a magnificent achievement. our system doesn't depend on our nobility, it accounts for our imperfections and gives us an order to our individual strivings that has helped make ours the most powerful and prosperous society on earth. it is our responsibility to preserve that. and even when it requires us to do something less satisfying than winning. even when we must give a little to get a little. even when our efforts managed just three yards and a cloud of
dust while critics on both sides denounce us for our failure to triumph. i hope we can again rely on humility on our need to cooperate, on our dependence on each other, to learn how to trust each other again, and by so doing, better serve the people who elected us. stop listening to the bombastic loud mouths on the radio, television and the internet. to hell with them. [ applause ] they don't want anything done for the public good. our incapacity is their livelihood. let's trust each other. let's return to regular order. we have been spinning our wheels on too many important issues because we keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. that's an approach that's been employed by both sides, mandating legislation from the top down without any support from the other side with all the
parliamentary maneuvers that requires. we're getting nothing done, my friends, we're getting nothing done. and all we have really done this year is confirm neil gorsuch to the supreme court. our health care insurance system is a mess. we all know it. those who support obamacare and those who oppose it. something has to be done. we republicans have looked for a way to end it and replace it with something else without paying a terrible political price. we haven't found it yet. and i'm not sure we will. all we have managed to do is make more popular a policy that wasn't very popular when we started trying to get rid of it. i voted for the motion to proceeds to allow debate to continue and amendments to be offered. i will not vote for this bill as it is today. it's a shell of a bill ligright now, we all know that, i have changes urged by my state's
governor that will need to be made before i support any bill. i know the bill has to change substantially before you will support it. we tried to do this by coming up with a proposal behind closed doors in consultation with the administration and then springing it on skeptical members, trying to convince them that it's better than nothing, that it's better than nothing? asking us to swallow our doubts and force it past a unified opposition. i don't think that's going to work in the end and probably shouldn't. the administration and congressional democrats shouldn't have forced through congress any national change as monumented as obamacare. and we shouldn't do the same with ours, why don't we try the old way of legislating in the senate. the way our rules and customs encourage us to act.
if this process ends in failure, which seems likely, then let's return to regular order. let the health and labor committee under chairman alexander, hold hearings, try to get a bill out of both committees with contributions from both sides. [ applause ] something that my dear friends on the other side of the aisle didn't allow to happen nine years ago. let's see if we can pass something that will be imperfect, full of compromises and not too pleasing to either side. but that might provide workable solutions to problems americans
are struggling with today. what have we to lose to work together to find those solutions. we're not getting done much apart. i don't think any of us feels very proud of our incapacity. merely preventing your political opponents from doing what they want isn't the most inspiring work. there's greater satisfaction in respecting our differences, but not letting them require aban n abandoning our core principles, that help improve lives and protect the american people. the senate is capable of that, we know that, we have seen it before. i have seen it happen many timintim times, and the times i was involved even in a partisan way are the proudest moments of my career are by far the most
satisfying. the work we do is important, our strange rulings and seemingly eccentric practices that slow our proceedings and insist upon our cooperation are important, our founders envision the senate as the more deliberative careful body that operates at a greater distance than the other body from the public passions of the hour. we are an important check on the powers of the executive. our consent is necessary for the president to appoint -- whether or not we are of the same party, we are not the present sident's subordinates, we are his equal. as these responsibilities are upon us, we play a vital role in shaping the judiciary, the military and the cab threat and planning and supporting domestic and foreign policies and meeting all these constitutional
obligations depends upon cooperation among ourselves. the success of the senate is important to the continued success of america. this country, this big, boisterous, brawling, beautiful, bountiful, brave, good and magnificent country needs us to help it thrive. that responsibility is more important than any of our personal interests or political affiliation, we are the servants of a great nation. a nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. more people are free, have lived free and prosperous lives than in any other nation. we have acquired unprecedented wealth and power because of our governing principles and because our government defended those principles. america has made a greater
contribution than any other nation to an international order. that has liberated more people from tyranny and poverty than ever before in history. we have been the greatest example, the greatest supporter and the greatest defender of that order. we are not afraid. we don't covet other people's land and wealth. we don't hide behind walls, we breach them, we are a blessing to humanity. what greater cause could we hope to serve than helping keep america the strong, aspiring, inspirational beacon of liberty and the defender of dignity of all human beings and their right to freedom and equal justice, that is the cause that binds us and it's so much more powerful and worthy that the small differences that divide us. what a great honor and extraordinary opportunity it is to serve in this body, it's a
privilege to serve with all of you. i mean it. many of you have reached out in the last few days with your concern and your prayers. and it means a lot to me, it really does. i have had so many people say such nice things about me recently, that i have some of you must have me confused with someone else. i appreciate it, though, every word, even if much of it isn't deserved. i'll be here for a few days, i hope managing the floor debate on the defense authorizization bill which i'm proud to say is a product of bipartisan cooperation and trust among the members of the senate armed services committee. after that, i'm going home for a while to treat my illness. i have every intention of returning here and giving many of you cause to regret all the nice things you said about me. and i hope to impress on you again, that it is an honor to
serve the american people, in your company. thank
you. fellow senators. mr. president, i yield the floor. [ applause ] >> all right, we have been -- we just saw everybody in the senate take to their feet to honor john mccain who has returned to cast probably the most important vote today because it gave the republicans 50 votes to pass the motion to proceed, which allows
them to debate the health care bill. that was a 50/50 vote. so you see mike pence, vice president just leaving the president's seat in the senate, now he had to cast the 51st vote. john mccain then giving an impassioned speech in which he was critical of the president, he was critical to the democrats for passing health care without a single republican vote. he called for the senate to return to regular order, where lamar alexander, and patty murray, take up the health care bill, and hold hearings and get to it the way he believes it should be. on the right of your screen, that's the rose garden, that's the american and lebanese flag, president trump and mr. saad are walking out now, they have been giv talking about refugees and the
relationship between lebanon and the united states. let's listen in now to the president of the united states. >> please, i'm very happy to announce that with zero of the democrats' votes, the motion to proceed on health care has just passed. and now we move forward towards truly great health care for the american people. we look forward to. this was a big step. i want to thank senator john mccain, very brave man, he made a tough trip to get here and vote. so we want to thank senator mccain and all of the republicans. we passed it without one democrat vote. and that's a shame, but that's the way it is, and it's very unfortunate. but i want to congratulate american people because we're going to give you great health care. and we're going to get rid of obamacare, which should have
been frankly terminated long ago, it's been a disaster for the american people. thank you very much. good afternoon and thank you all for being here, it is my honor to welcome prime minister saad of lebanon to the white house. the prime minister and i have just concluded an extensive conversation about the challenges and opportunities facing lebanon and it's neighbors. lebanon is on the front lines in the fight against isis, al qaeda, and hezbollah. the lebanese people of all faiths are working together to keep their -- and you know this, and we have been discussing this at great length. their country safe and prosperous. they love their country and they're going to keep it safe and prosperous. mr. prime minister i want to thank you you and your people for standing up for humanity in
a very troubled part of the world. the ties between our two countries stretch back more than a century, long, long relationships. in 1866 american missionaries founded the american university of beirut. now more than 150 years later, and with ongoing american support, this university continues to educate generations of leaders in the region. today our two countries seek to strengthen our relationship in many ways, including the pursuit of stability, mutual prosperity and peace. what the leb neanese armed forc have established in recent years is very impressive. in 2014, when isis tried to invade northern lebanon, the lebanese army beat them back, since that time the lebanese
army has been fighting continually to guard lebanon's border and prevent isis and other terrorists of which there are many, from gaining a foothold inside their country. the united states military has been proud to help in that fight, and we'll continue to do so. america's assistance can help ensure that the lebanese army is the only defender lebanon needs. it's a very effective fighting force. threats to the lebanese people comes from inside as well. hezbollah is a menace to the lebanese state, the lebanese people and the entire region. the group continues to increase it's military arsenal, which thens to start yet another conflict with israel constantly fighting them back.
with the support of iran, the organization is also fueling humanitarian catastrophe in syria. hezbollah likes to portray itself as a defender of lebanese interests, but it's very clear that it's true interests are those of itself and it's sponsor, iran. i want to thank the prime minister and the lebanese people for giving shelter to those vib victimized by isis, the assad regime, their supporters and sponsors and pledge our
continued support to lebanon. since the start of the syrian crisis, the united states has helped lebanon support syrian refugees with clean water, food, shelter and health care. our approach supporting the humanitarian needs of displaced syrian citizens as close to their home country has possible. is the best way to help most people, america is proud to stand with those who have the courage to stand up to terrorism. and take responsibility for affairs in their own region. the reliance and resilience of the lebanese people in the face of war and terror is extraordinary. we honor the citizens of lebanon who are working to secure a future of peace, stability and prosperity for their children. mr. prime minister i'm grateful you are here today, it's a big day in our country because of
the vote you just heard about. we stood and watched the results on television before coming out. and you found it very interesting, i hope. >> yes, i did. >> and very important. i look forward to working with you to strengthen our partnership and the enduring friendship between the american and lebanese peoples. thank you very much. mr. prime minister? >> thank you. good afternoon, i have the honor and pleasure and the pleasure to hold a very good meeting with president trump. i appreciate his leadership and the united states' leadership in the world today. we discussed the situation in our region and the efforts we in lebanon are making to safeguard our political and economic stability while combatting terrorism. i thank president trump for his support to our army and security
agencies as well as a support to maintain peace and stability along our southern border. where our government is committed to the united nation security council resolution 1701 as well as all resolutions. we also discussed the pressures lebanon is facing as a result of 1.5 million syrian displaced in our country. i outline to president trump my vision with the support of the international community. we also discussed economic prospects in lebanon and our government's efforts to jump-start inclusive economic growth with a particular emphasis on job creation. i thank president trump and the
united states of america for their support to the lebanese people, striving to keep our country's dialogue and co-existence and democratic governance in our region. thank you. >> thank you very much. margaret? hello, mar get. >> reporter: hi, mr. president, mr. prime minister, i'll also have a question for you in just a second, bear with me. this morning in the wall st. peter peter's -- "wall street journal," you have called your attorney general beleaguered, you criticized his decision to recuse himself on the russian matters, and your motto before the white house was you're fired. i wonder if you would talk to us a little bit about whether
you've lost confidence in jeff sessions, whether you want him to resign on his own, whether you're prepared to fire him if he doesn't, and why you're sort of letting him twist in the wind rather than making the call for him. >> i don't think i am doing that, but i am disappointed in the attorney general, he should not have recused himself. almost immediately after he took office. and if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office and i would have quite simply picked somebody else. so i think that's a bad thing, not for the president, but for the presidency. i think it's unfair to the presidency. and that's the way i feel, thank you. >> reporter: thank you. mr. prime minister, could you tell us what you think about the saudi-led blockade of qatar? this is something that has been of great concern to the u.s. also in terms of resolving. do you think that qatar is doing enough on terror and if so, would you like to see president
trump increase the pressure on the saudi coalition to ease its blockade and mr. president, if you would give us any more of your thinking on going forward, the path with attorney general sessions and maybe your timeline for making a decision, that would be great, thank you. >> you don't give up, thank you. >> i think from's an effort by the kuwaitis, they're leading this effort, i think we have made some progress, i believe the dialogue is the best way of improving this relationship between saudi arabia and qatar. i believe that maybe the united states also could help in this -- in solving this issue in the gulf. >> denise? >> reporter: i have one question for the president and also for prime minister. congress introduced additional sanctions against hezbollah,
what is your position towards these sanctions and on the role of hezbollah is playing in the region and syria? >> i'll be making my position very clear over the next 24 hours. we're going to see what is exactly taking place, i have meetings with some of my very expert military representatives and others so i'll be making that decision very shortly, okay? thank you. >> reporter: and about hezbollah's role in the region? >> i'll be talking about that tomorrow. [ speaking in native language ]
about, still a long ways to go. at what point do you feel that republicans if they can't get something done should just say, you know what? we gave it a go, let's move on to tax reform instead. >> i want the attorney general to be much tougher on the leaks from intelligence agencies. which are leaking like rarely have they ever leaked before, at a very important level. these are intelligence agencies. we cannot have that happen. you know many of my screws in additi addition -- many of my views in addition to that, but there are things we need to get on with. i told you before i'm very disappointed with the attorney general, but we'll see what happens, time will tell. time will tell. on health care, i'm extremely happy that we got this vote, this is -- they say, if you look historically, this is the tough vote to get. now we're all going to sit together and we're going to try and come up with something that's really spectacular, we
have a lot of options, and a lot of great options and the republican senators really went out there, it's not easy when you have 52 senators and you have a block of 48 voting against you, no matter what it is, no matter how good it sounds, it's very hard to get the kind of numbers that we got. we ended up with 51 to whatever, i don't know what it is, 51-50. so we had 50 republicans that went against us, i think it's very sad for them. but i'm very, very happy with the result. i believe now that we will over the next week or two come up with a plan that's going to be really, really wonderful for the american people. obamacare is a disaster, it's failing on every front. it's too expensive. it gives horrible coverage. it was gotten by a lie 28 times, it was a lie, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan, all lies. and the people are sick of it.
and we're going to come up with a great health care that satisfies the needs of the people that we serve, which is the people of the united states. i will say, and i said it right at the beginning, health care is always difficult, because you have to weed a very, very narrow path like a quarter of an inch wide, right down the middle. and if you go a little bit too far right, you lose three people on the left, if you go a little bit too far left, you lose five people on the right. it is a very, very complex and difficult task. but it's something i actually know quite a bit about. i just want to thank some of the republican senators who were really fantastic in getting this here, particularly john mccain for making the trip. but i these yink you're going te a great health care. this is the beginning of the end for the disaster known as obamacare. thank you similar much.
>> reporter: and mr. president, how can the united states help lebanon cope with the massive number of syrian refugees and is there a way to help facilitate the refugees' return to their own country? >> we are helping and one of the things we have made tremendous strides at is getting rid of isis, we have generals that don't like to talk. they like to do. and we were with general mattis last night and the success they have had against isis is extraordinary. we have made more progress in the last four or five months, than previous, really, i could say the previous administration made in eight years. and then we have to see what we have to see. but i will tell you, isis in syria, isis in iraq, isis in other locations, we have made
tremendous strides, our military is an incredible fighting force. and as you know, i let the commanders on the ground do what they had to do. before they used to have to call in this beautiful house and speak to people that didn't know what was happening. where they were, what locations, practically, probably never heard of the countries they were talking about or the towns. i let the generals do what they had to do. and we have made tremendous plans. we were discussing it just before. we have made tremendous gains with respect to isis in syria, iraq and other places. >> thank you. [ inaudible ] >> what about assad? >> assad? >> i'm not a fan of assad, okay? he will tell you that. because we had 58 out of 58 or you could say 59 out of 59 when
we launched the tomahawk missiles. now i am not a fan of assad. i certainly think that what he's done to that country, and to humanity is horrible. so i have been saying that for a long time. i am not somebody that will stand by and let him get away with what he tried to do. and he did it a number of times. when president obama drew the red line in the sand, and then he shouldn't have crossed that red line, because some horrible acts against humanity took place, including gas and the killing through gases. that was a bad day for this country. and i would go a step further that had president obama gone across that line and done what he should have done, i don't believe you would have russia and i don't believe you would
have iran anywhere near the extent and maybe not at all in syria today. okay? thank you very much. [ speaking in native language ] [ speaking in native language ] [ speaking in native language ] >> thank you very much, everybody. appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> mr. prime minister, thank you.
>> okay, president trump and lebanese prime minister saas hariri, the president took a few questions about jeff sessions the attorney general, and once again saying he's very disappointed in his attorney general. when asked what he's going to do about it, he said time will tell. let's go to kristen welker, who i think is in the rose garden there. somewhere in the white house and she's available to us what she makes of that conversation. kristen, it's kind of impossible to figure out what the president seems to be doing with jeff sessions, he seems to be criticizing him to various outlets of the media but he won't fire him at the moment. >> reporter: one reporter questioned him about whether
he's letting his attorney general twist in the wind, he said i'm not doing that at all. and then he went on to step up his attacks against him. he was pressed repeatedly over what happens next, will he fire him, will he call for his resignation. he would not answer that question directly. one thing he said, he wants to see him crack down on these leaks. it was almost as if to say, he can hold on to his job if the president sees some real movement and some real improvement in that regard. but he's not backing off of these very critical attacks against jeff sessions. jeff sessions recused himself in march so it's -- the president is stepping up his attacks now. >> i've been asking everybody who knows anything about this what they make of this. there's nothing new that jeff sessions has done now. if you liked him then, it's the same now.
>> part of what he has explained today is that he has become increasingly infuriated by these leaks, but remember, the russia probe has continued to deepen and widen over the last several months. and jared kushner who was in the rose garden this morning, was on capitol hill yesterday and today answering questions about his meetings with russian officials. he was very definitive, he said he did not collude with the russians and doesn't know of anybody else on the trump team colluding with the russians. this is an investigation that gets closer to the president's inner circle. it continues to get under his skin, and that may be why we're seeing these stepped up attacks. >> there is one person who has resigned from the white house communications shop having to do with leaks. >> reporter: and it's not exactly clear what his resignation was directly related
to. michael shore who works in the press office did tender his resignation today, saying he felt very honored to serve her. but we don't know what was debehind the resignation. but it continues as the president hires a new communications director, anthony scaramucci, he says it's his number one goal to crack down on these leaks. i asked him what he would do about these leak, he said he's prepared to fire everybody. he's close to reince priebus, he's close to sean spicer, so maybe his decision to resign has to do with sean spicer's resignation. bottom line is there is a shake-up going within the communications department of the white house. >> i'm joined by ohio republican
congressman jim jordan, one of the founders of the house freedom caucus, good to see you again. what's your sense of this today, your motion to proceed passed with the help of the you think ? >> good sign. i think we'll get a bill at some point. hopefully sooner rather than later. after all, ali, this is what we told the american people we were going to do. as i like to say, it never hurts to do what you said. let's get this through the senate. maybe it's a conference committee, maybe not. let's then get it to president trump's desk. >> the president made an interesting point in the press conference. he said it's threading the needle. you go to the left you lose five on the right and you move to the right you lose three on the left. it's good to do what you promised, but in a lot of ways you guys promised different things. some of you want out of obamacare. some want out of the expansion of medicaid. some want obamacare fixed, some want the exchanges fixed. i think this is becoming an issue within the party. >> but we all voted to actually
repeal it. 50 senators voted to repeal it. every republican who came back in the house voted to repeal it. we put on then-president obama's desk a bill i hope we put on president trump's desk. repeal it first, separate bill to replace. if that's the strategy we take, i am for that. we're trying to do that in the house, make an end run around the leadership and call up the clean repeal legislation that i introduced in march. that's what we told the voters. let it happen. if not that, if we get a repeal and replace combination through the senate, we'll go to conference committee and move from there. the key is for us to keep our promises to the american people. >> viewers on the right side of the screen watching you are watching various angles from capitol hill. there are protests going on. members of congress and senators speaking to supporters out there. let me ask you this, though. there really is a big difference between clean repeal, repeal and replace, repeal and do various other things.
it's complicated. the effect on individuals is really big. as a representative of the people, they're not all the same thing, right? there are some of these things that would actually cause substantially more harm than others. are you that fixated on repeal that it doesn't matter what the other alternative is? >> no, no, no. first of all, repeal, there is a two-year wind-down. there is a wind-down period. it doesn't take effect until the end of 2018. >> you see what's happening in the exchanges. talk of hhs not continuing to subsidize insurance companies. even more are pulling out and rates are going up. >> i see what's happening in the exchanges under obamacare. >> it's happening under trumpcare. it's happening now. >> there is no trumpcare. >> mr. representative, you know about the subsidies and the insurance companies, right? you know this talk of not continuing to offer the subsidies to the insurance companies is causing some of them to pull out. it's getting worse. >> here is what i know. obamacare has caused all kinds of problems, risen -- premium
prices going up, deductibles going up. people cannot afford -- if they can afford the premiums, they can't afford the deductibles. in my county in the fourth district of ohio no plans are offered in the exchange right now. cbo first told us there would be 21 million people on obamacare today. there are 9. >> okay. so -- so you don't like -- >> 10, 14, 16, about this issue. >> donald trump yesterday, at 3:00, lied and went out there and said under this plan the premiums will go down. you know that there is no chance premiums are going down except for the cruz amendment. the house bill did not have anything that represented chances of premiums going down. they had a chance maybe of premiums going up by less but not down. >> i don't always agree with what cbo says. >> do you think they're in the wrong direction. >> people with our bill, with the mcarthur amendment and what
we fought for under conservatives. they said under our bill premiums would come down. that's what we're focused on doing. with the cruz amendment in there, premiums will come down for people in the small group and individual market. people outside of cbo have said the same thing. that's why we want the cruz amendment to be in the bill when it comes out of the house. we think premiums would come down because they went up so much under obamacare. >> that's just not true, congressman. >> it is true. >> it's not true. we can have the discussions -- >> a single person used to be able to get a policy for a hundred bucks a month. >> congressman. i am not -- i can't deal in macro numbers. i am sure you know somebody for whom that happened and for whom the premium went up 500%. >> they know what goes on. they're in the business. >> it's not true. >> it is true. >> it's not true. >> yes, it is. >> premium increases slowed
under obamacare. you have to look at it in chunks. over five years and look at it before. you and i keep having this conversation. i don't understand -- >> here is what's true. >> -- where you're getting your numbers from. tell me where you're getting. i'll pull up the study. i have the internet here. >> i am talking to real people. >> real is not -- there are 310 real people -- 310 million real people, sir. >> that's not the full story. >> i know lots of families whose premiums went up. >> do you know any under medicaid expansion who didn't have to pay for health care now because they couldn't afford it and got covered upped that. anybody who had a preexisting condition because they couldn't before obamacare. do you think health care in america was really fantastic before the affordable care act? >> all i am saying is it was better and more affordable before the affordable care act. >> that's not true, sir. >> they said if you like your doctor, keep your doctor. >> it didn't work, right.
>> if you like your plan, keep it. that wasn't true. they said deductibles would go down. that wasn't true. they said the website would work. that wasn't true. they said the website was secure. that wasn't secure. they said emergency room visits would decline. that didn't. coops would be wonderful and 18 went bankrupt. >> that's just not new. you have a really good list, congressman, of things that didn't work. >> you remember the guy named jonathan gruber, caught on tape telling us that they lied to us, confessing their sin. >> you've outlined a lot of things -- >> that's not outlined. that's telling the truth. >> you have obscured the one big one. that is about costs. i hear you about the website, about keeping your doctor. >> talk to any family -- >> that's not true, congressman. it's not true. that's all i'm trying to say. >> i talk to them every day in my district. >> you live in one state, sir. there are a lot of americans.
you don't talk to even a fraction of them. >> i talk to a whole bunch of them in the fourth district of ohio. i'll tell you that. they knew what i stood for when i ran for office in '10, '14 and what i said i would do on november 8th, 2016. i said at the start of our conversation, it's always important to remember what you told them, do what you said and keep your promises. >> i guess my point is that, what you've told your constituents is important differs from other republicans think is important in coming up with a better health care system, which understand -- >> they all voted for it. >> it was easy to vote -- when you're not in government it's easy to vote to repeal things. >> ali. that's what voters hate. you can vote for it when it doesn't count. now when it counts -- tell me one thing at campaign time, election time. when the rubber meets the road you can't do it now. really? that's what it's come to? people hate that. let's get away from that and do what we said. >> i hear you. let's hope they like you for what you end up doing to health care, and i hope it makes the whole situation better.
>> they're going to like it. >> i don't think that's going to happen, but we'll continue to talk about it. representative jim jordan, a republican congressman and one of the founders of the house freedom caucus. i think al franken is speaking at capitol hill. >> we all want to have nonpartisan experts so that we can build on the successes of the aca and so we can fix what's not working with it. that's what we need to do. we all know that. paul wellstone who once held the seat i hold said that politics is not about power, it's not about money, it's not about winning for the sake of winning. it's about, wouldi working to i people's lives. that's why we're all hear. that's why we're all here. that's why my colleagues are here. [ applause ] unfortunately, i guess my
republican colleagues don't have the same philosophy. >> no, they sure don't! >> this will not improve people's lives. this will hurt millions and millions of people. so, i would like to give you -- >> they governor the 1%. they govern the 1%. >> we'll make it participatory. we're going to fight? >> yeah! >> are we going to fight? >> yeah! >> are we going to welcome jeff berkeley. >> busy day on capitol hill. the vote to proceed, the motion to proceed on the senate bill to deal with health care made it by one vote, 51-50. that was the vice president's vote that was the winning vote, so they get to proceed to debate health care. lots of other things going on. that brings the hour to a close for me, though. i'll be back tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. eastern with stephanie ruhle and again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. as always, find me on twitter, facebook and instagram @ali
velshi, on snapchat. i'll hand it over to "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace which starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 and it's a big day on both ends of pennsylvania avenue today. john mccain is back in the senate, one week after sharing his cancer diagnosis with the world. galvanizing his colleagues on both sides of the aisle with a stark reminder of the constitutional mandate that binds them. >> let's trust each other. let's return to regular order. we've been spinning our wheels on too many important issues because we keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. that's an approach that's been employed by both sides, mandating legislation from the top down, without any support from the other side, with all the parliamentary maneuvers that requires. we are getting nothing done, my friends, we are getting nothing done. this