tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 28, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
the report in our hour that there is no information on who is the acting head of the dhs. that does it for "the beat." i hope you have a great weekend. i'll be back at monday 6:00 eastern. "hardball" starts right now. trump to priebus? you're fired. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm joy reid in for chris matthews. after months of speculation, reince priebus is officially out. late tonight, donald trump announced his replacement on twitter. i am pleased to inform you that i have just named general/secretary john f. kelly as the new white house chief of
staff. he is a great american and a great leader. he has done a spectacular job. after touching down on air force one moments ago, trump offered these words of praise for his outgoing and incoming chiefs of staff. ? why john kelly? >> reince is a good man. john kelly will do a fantastic job. general kelly has been a star. done an incredible job thus far. respected by everybody. and great, great american. reince priebus, a good man. thank you very much. >> the question is, did reince jump or way pushed? sources close to priebus tell nbc news, the embattled top aide had had enough and turned in his private resignation last night. others say it was the failure of the republican health care bill, although the person running
point on that bill was mike pence. we know for sure this came after the losing battle with anthony scaramucci who was named communications director last week. on his first official day on the job, scaramucci said, vinls an expletive paranoid schizophrenic while threatening a purge of white house staffers. he accused him for leaking and said he'll be asked to resign very shortly. the ouster is a clear sign the president intends to give his communications director a free hand despite the embarrassment he's already cost the administration. even in the midst of the tirade, few at the white house were willing to defend embattled chief of staff. >> is reince priebus in trouble, may i ask? >> you would have to ask the president that. we all serve at the pleasure of the president. the fact is only two people were
elected to anything and they were loektd a very specific set of ideas and promises. >> trump didn't reprimand scaramucci for his obscenities. at the moment, scaramucci is empowered, the president loved the mooch quotes. at the same time, republicans are warning if behavior like this continues, apparently sanctioned by the president, people will finally leave. priebus's departure is not only evidence that the president sanctioned his behavior but he is empowered to take out those he no longer wants him at the white house. >> did reince priebus resign because he wanted to? >> certainly the president wanted to make a change that has been rumored for so long. we've had so many moments where our sources were telling us the
end sim penalty in. in the last few days, our sources said there was something very different happening. a different way the president was treating him. so this is a case where in a protracted public way, priebus has suffered tim pending doom of knowing his time was short. it is always a question of, a trick and an egg. do you resign? do you get fired? how does it work? this was in many ways expected. it was a long, slow end for priebus. i think it is in a way tied to the failure of the health care overhaul. part of the portfolio of priebus was to come from the traditional wing of the party. close ties and the ability to get things done in washington. the president is overcorrecting the other direction. we know he likes generals. john kelly is retired as a four-star marine and he wants
someone apparently who has this exterior toughness who already has a bit of a reputation for his time at the department of homeland security and someone who doesn't have the traditional political ties as priebus does. so the president is taking pendulum swing. when you look at priebus, sean spicer, the outgoing press secretary, katie walsh who had been priebus's close hand person from the rnc, she left early. another staffers from the communications department who worked at the rnc. you have four people from the reince priebus rnc leadership team who are now out at this white house. and it raises questions about the trump administration's relationship with the party and certainly this is a shake-up. from our sources, the family advisers, as i like to call they will, ivanka trump, were certainly wanting to see a change and this was a big change. to have priebus on the plane.
air force one with the presses on a day when all of this is churning, almost adds to the unceremonial end to this. i took bit of time between tweets where the president announced john kelly before the thank you to priebus came about. we're told there will be a cabinet meeting on monday. they're trying to turn the page and this is one of those changes, one of those shake-ups that none of us are surprised by. but when it rattles, it really rattles this place. >> i want to bring in jonathan swan, ken vogel, a reporter for the new york times, curtis lee with the national times, and ely stokel with the national journal, and the former republican party chairman michael steele who was succeeded
by reince priebus. the timing is very swren the big failure of the health care bill. it is easy enough to chalk up the ultimate career in the white house to that. but what scaramucci has been beating him up over, by nail in some cases, is over this question of leaks. if you had to guess which of those two things was a bigger factor in reince being thrown out. >> he wasn't a rich guy, he wasn't a military general. the things that trump tends to like and respect. and a lot of people had impressed upon him that reince was responsible, the communications department underneath him that he ran, that was responsible for a lot of these leaks. so when scaramucci came in, that was pretty much the beginning of the end for him. we heard today when scaramucci gave the interview to the new yorker, and came after reince so strongly and profanely, that
didn't bother the president and the president was turned off by the fact reince priebus didn't fight back. he sort of played into that notion that the president already had of being weak, unclear. you can understand why somebody like reince priebus after just six months on the job might want the public to believe that he resigned on his own. the writing was on the wall. but hard to see someone getting on the plane, having to walk off the plane as the president is firing him versus he twitter. certainly the first chief of staff ever fired over twitter. then being in the motorcade, being in his own van before the president gets off the plane. an embarrassing final coda for reince priebus, chief of staff. it didn't look very good. >> and michael steele, someone familiar with this, this group of guys from wisconsin.
this one time very powerful block of republican party operatives. they're all gone now. what do you make of this idea that reince could have done himself some good. what kind of white house is that? >> well, that's not reince's personality, the way he would do something like that. the wisconsin mafia as they were known, really kind of had their fingers on the political pulse of washington over the last three years. and trump has come in and effectively removed that. as of tonight, you would stay establishment wing of the party has very little control or say over what will be going on. there's word on the street talking about how the white house really wants the white house to be independent of capitol hill. to be independent of the party. which is something some of us indicated going back to the
campaign that this president would see himself outside of the party at all times because he's next been a part of it. so very little surprise there. >> if the white house then dodds exist outside of capitol hill and outside party, they had a chief of staff who has never worked on the hill. he wasn't exactly the most effective person at negotiating with the co-equal branch of government down the hill. how does it go? >> including mark short, the legislative affairs director whose actual job it is to interface with capitol hill. and then there are some folks made from that rnc contingent, my sources in the white house tell me, don't be surprised if we see more blood letting from
this faction in the coming days. then you look at how they can interface. zero experience in republican party politics. obviously, he has dealt with the hill and the body politics in a broader way during his time in the military. much less experience dealing with the republican establishment than reince priebus. if anything, it is as chairman steele suggested, sort of a distancing of themselves from both capitol hill and the establishment. it is tough to see how that can be successful given the most embarrassing setbacks have been as a result of their inability to get their way on the hill and work closely with the republican party leadership there. >> and a chief of staff job is not primarily to be a liaison of capitol hill, that's parted of it. but it is to give advice to the president and timally to be that person who can walk into the office and say mr. president,
that's a bad idea. obviously reince priebus did not have the ability to do that. and i think ely said he may not have the proper respect of the president. he wasn't rich or a general. now you have a general. if he moves over and becomes chief of staff, is that someone donald trump would respect enough to hear the word no from? >> certainly more than he's respected reince priebus. the oval office under reince priebus, one republican described it as a rolling craps game. you could easily get face time with the president. all you had to do was stroll in. reince had no control over information. staff would come in with prinld o , with printed out articles that were detrimental. he would take retribution. people didn't know how the president was coming to decisions. there was no system. it was completely circumstance you will vented.
by the end, reince was a floating disrespected figure and the only person in his quarter at the end, fully in his quarter fighting for him waurs ironical steve bannon who comes from a completely different part of the republican party. if at all. i would love to see, i guess we take reince priebus at his word that he resigned yesterday. for someone who resigned yesterday, his behavior was awful straining. they were scheme until the last minute to destroy mooch. they say he was subtly seeking reassurances and saying things like, the president was not happy with the things that anthony scaramucci said to the new yorker. which does not strike me as, maybe it was all kept very secret. maybe he was putting on an act. i guess that's possible. >> give us the view in the real
world. you had the new york post putting up a front page that depicted as survivor. you have this report that you have bannon and priebus banding together. number one. they didn't want scaramucci hired. he comes in and he's attack on the record, in the new yorker. not only does he not get in trouble, his position prevails. and he has walk-in privileges and reporting directly to the president, not the chief of staff. this fees like chaos. is this an administration from those outside of washington looking in even seems like presidential administration at this point. >> we're here in los angeles and everyone is looking at this. >> you could not sale screenplay like the. it would not be sold. >> people are just looking at this like a daily occurrence of saying, hey, is this reality tv. you see thisser profanity laced, and everyone is looking at i, at any other time, this guy would
be out. ska scaramucci would not be here. the next day the guy he's battling with, reince priebus, is on the cutting block. last week it was sean spicer. who will it be next week? a lot of people are looking at i with concern. also seeing reality show daily. and president trump, he has his back ground in reality tv and he is playing this out as a reality tv show. tweeting this out this afternoon that john kelly is now his new chief of staff. it is one of these things. bring your popcorn and see what will happen next week. >> it feels like it isn't over yet. >> i think there's a lot of tension here. you see the chaos that some have
described it or at least new leadership in anthony scaramucci and the broad sides that he delivered. then to take out reince priebus as the president has done. those who have been in the priebus wing within a white house that has included a lot of outsiders. there are clearly people who are banks their jobs. expect to be the next one out or feel it is appropriate to step aside because they were a part of priebus wing. also, we have been hearing from the scaramucci corner that he wants to have additional staff shake-up in terms of the communications shop. this kind of a change is in many ways an enormous, the plates of the earth shifting on the 18 acres of the white house grounds. when you have a chief of staff change, there is a very strong feeling that goes through the
team, the staff. this president has not empowered his first chief of staff, it will be much more difficult for him will with the ways that he might have reince priebus. where we had seen nm instances, the factions within the white house were obviously at each other over different issues. over politics. over access to the president. so i think there's still anxiety here and a likelihood, especially with a new chief of staff to have an opportunity to bring in their own team. to start a new reset button. so it does not feel like it is over yet. >> all right. stay with us, everybody naflt brief gaggle with reporters, press secretary sarah huckabee sanders that scaramucci had nothing to do with the decision on priebus. >> this is reince's decision? >> we all serve at the pleasure of the president. conversations about this started with the president and brins two
weeks ago in terms of timing this has nothing to do with anthony scaramucci? >> no, it doesn't. >> is that passably believable spin? >> oh, man. we described scaramucci as a reince seeking missile brought in by ivanka. i believe it is an entirely accurate description. we laughed as did many people who know both of these men when they came out with this phony show last friday, saying they were best friends forever and went back all these years. anthony scaramucci and reince priebus despise each other. anthony resenlth the fact reince tried block him entering the white house. reince priebus thought he was he woefully unqualified for the job. he argued strenuously against him getting the job. and as soon as anthony scaramucci came in, it was
entirely predictable that they would collide. i will say it happened quicker and more spectacularly than any of us could have predicted. but give me a break. >> and just one moment to go back to where we started. we get that they have mutual enmity toward each other. for donald trump, what was it about reince that he wanted him gone for? is it that he's blaming him for the failure of a health care bill? or is it that he is manic about these leaks? >> it is lots and lots of things. he has long thought of reince ago being weak. he has never forgotten that when the "access hollywood" time dropped last year, reince told him he should drop out of the race. donald trump takes great pleasure in reminding him of that fact.
he used to refer to him during transition as reincy or my genius. he would say my genius reincy tells me and it was dripping with content. this was never a wonderful relationship. >> who hired him? >> i would love to know the full story of that. some good reporting is required. we don't have a full picture of how that went down. there was a misconception. he was the head of the rnc, incredibly connected in washington and can she said heard everything through the hill. but he doesn't actually have that many relationships, certainly in relationship to paul ryan. i think that was unsolved. >> clearly. charges from scaramucci that he is a leaker.
>> no reaction. i'm not going to respond to it. i'm not going to get into the mud on those sorts of things. the president and i had an understanding. we've talked about it many times. and we ultimately decided that yesterday was a good day and we would work together. and i think that general kelly is a great pick. i'm not going on get into the weeds on that. >> you know reince priebus. he is not an operator on the hill that would have made him a legislative force. >> he wasn't very connected on the hill. >> picking up on the last point. reince brought to the table the kind of support the president needed at a very critical moment on the campaign. namely were the "access hollywood" tape came out and republicans started to pale, part of the payoff was this job
at the white house. it was at a time when a lot of republicans were heading for the hill's and the president appreciated reince sticking his neck out in that. he saw reince as someone who was part of the establishment. and this was all for purposes of transition. this was never going to be a permanent arrangement. donald trump wants his own team around him who get him, who reflect him, who respond to the public the way he likes. skarp goi scaramucci going off the rails does not happen unless donald trump signs off on it. >> i think you're absolutely right. >> so if anyone thinks that scaramucci went off on his own here no. this was all part of the reality tv presidency and the story line
that he donald trump wants out there that he is getting control of the things he wants control of. >> and so on donald trump wants to surrender himself by rich guys, millionaires and billionaires. he wants reality tv guys. he has some people from the breitbart blogging world. what he doesn't seem to want is people who can help help get legislation through congress. is it clear to you what donald trump wants his staff to do other than engage in cage matches? >> the simplest way to put it is he wants to win. he talks about winning. the joke is all the winning that has taken place in the first six months. he sees kelly as a winner, his ability record, his ability to get things done. one of the things that has impressed him. showing what the dhs wasn't
doing. trump really loves that. he refer to him as a killer. scaramucci is there because it is a big reality show. and scaramucci is big on have the have the and this is a televised presidency, almost every second of it. they're both there. the question he trump has to decide what winning is. the word is scaramucci will be reporting to the president directly and then you have kelly coming in supposedly. he has free reign to run the west wing. if scaramucci doesn't think he has to report to kelly, there
will be some questioning there. it will be very he interesting to see how it plays out. you would think he would report with the chief of staff. that's not to talk about the children. who was it the white house staff think they need to, how should we say, between scaramucci and kelly if they want to survive? >> i think right now, there's a lot of soul searching and a lot of feeling out going within the white house staff you've correctly described it. two competing fifedoms. very evocative of during campaign when paul manafort was brought in. that ended up with two parallel campaigns running at the same
time. sometimes giving conflicting instruction to the staff and the states. it was very amusing and provided a lot of fodder for the press. the hunger games, as we described it. you have the same set of circumstances here. not just because you have two parallel structures. having direct reporting privileges but two very different folks at the top. john kelly, very regimented, military back ground. anthony scaramucci very off the cuff free wheeling we saw with the first infamous interview at the new yorker. so some personality clash there's, in addition to some potential structural issues. >> a comes director who doesn't
know when he is off the record. it doesn't mean that he knows anything more than reince priebus does and maybe bless doing the functions of government. going and dealing with the hill. so they war? we talked about it being hollywood. is that even well orchestrated? just from a cosmetic point of view. it is so sloppy. does it surprise that you somebody who does come from a back ground where he does have some experience, he is not even orchestrating the presidency in a way that seems, i don't know. it doesn't seem planned. >> it is one of those things, he is a true outsider. he's never won for political office. we're seeing between scaramucci and sessions, what's being lost is a number of policy issues the
president and this administration is not winning on. or they're having trouble with. >> at what point do they wear out their welcome? 83% of republicans support donald trump no matter what he does. at some point doesn't this administration have to decide that it has things it wants to do and then do them? >> we just passed the six-month mark. the president has had problems with his immigration program. he created this fraud commission. it is not needed. and for health care, getting rid of obamacare. we saw mike pence trying to meet with senators to get this passed. it is one of those things, we're six months in and this administration isn't racking out too many victories, although out
front they say they're doing a lot. >> i wonder if the chief of staff would be advising on some strategy. who advised donald trump on the strategy of having ryan zinke threaten lisa murkowski? who was advising on not befriending john mccain, knowing you need these people's votes? obviously, reince priebus wasn't up to the task. do you see evidence that john kelly will have a more subtle hand temperature advising of the president? >> i will offer this. if you are a four-star marine general, the rank at which john kelly left his service to the united states military. that is a very political accomplishment. it is an accomplishment with a lot of discipline and there's a lot of management experience when you are a general. so it's not in the policy and politics world. but anyone who reaches that level of being a general he has had to deal with a lot of internal conflicts with staff. having to execute a plan.
and he had done work as a liaison to congress while he was in uniform. so there are a couple of building blocks there that are areas where the president can look for just new structure. i think the president also wants this decision to be well received publicly. and he has found when he makes decisions with people who are broadly respected, like people in both parties respect someone of john kelly's stature, that's something the president likes. he wants to hear this was a good decision. the president was very frustrated from all the reporting we've done in the early days of going from campaign to transition and finally taking office, that he was given a lot of counsel from priebus and that team about in what order to do various steps. from the travel ban to beginning with health care. the different building blocks of how they would roll out this administration. and many of those things blew up on him and didn't work as he was told they would. that has been a part of sillering frugs. the guidance he thought he was
getting kept back firing. one thing he seems to have enormous confidence in is people who have gone through military and have a measurable recovered results to show for it. so don't underestimate the management skills of a four star marine general as something new for this white house. >> very interesting. >> let's bring in ali velshi, my friend and one of our very favorite people here msnbc. you know anthony scaramucci. you now have two power centers. you have scaramucci who reports directly to the president, and you have the chief of staff who in theory, scaramucci should be reporting to. >> i think one has to look. he expected a big job oriole, arranged to sell his he fund of funds as it is called to a chinese firm that has a murky
ownership structure. there's about 90 million dollars hanging in the balance here for anthony scaramucci. and donald trump and steve he mnuchin can override any regulatory approval or disapproval of this. so the bottom line is anthony scaramucci had remarkable motivation to being in the president's good graces and being near him and reince priebus kept him away from that prize for a long time. this isn't just about ambition or what the country needs. this is about what anthony scaramucci needed to happen. if you're anthony scaramucci, you're probably not all that concerned that john kelly will be the chief of staff. your problem was reince priebus. anthony scaramucci is, i don't mean this in a critical way. as he chameleon. he can figure it out. he learned all of donald trump's
jess particular latiparticular . i've heard that anthony scaramucci would have liked the job himself but john kelly and anthony scaramucci apparently both have said that they think leaks the absolute worst thing that can happen to this administration. so if they can get a handle on that, they'll consider it a success. i don't think they'll get a handle on it. they're both going toward that goal. and he's achieved his goal of trying to get out of the way. when he is on the record and not on the record, what is it his mission is now? clearly communications is streamlining it and making it smooth. >> i'm of that group who doesn't think this is the priority. that anthony scaramucci came in for different reasons. the president really likes him. he sticks in for the president and his family. he is a strong guy to have on the president's side.
they don't form the same group on the other side. i don't think this is about communications skill necessarily. anthony scaramucci is a good guest to have on a tv show but he is not particularly expert at it. and remember, i don't know that i or other people believe that anthony scaramucci thought he was talking off the record. he never made any mention of it. he has a history having spoken to the press. if he was supposed to be off the record and he didn't playing it clear, that makes him the worst communications director ever. if he intended it to be that way, that makes him a vulgar profane individual. this is about getting reince priebus and sean spicer and the rnc folks out of the white house. >> i've heard the idea that he would want to be chief of staff. you think of james baker and the august people. in position. the choices being made here. i want to let the viewers listen to a little more of what you call the exit interview tonight.
>> can you clear up the other charge that you're a leaker, and that you're not that loyal to the president. you've got your own agenda. he makes bitter accusations against you. specifically the leaking. >> give me a break. i won't get into his -- >> why not respond? >> i'm not going to. it doesn't honor the president. >> this idea of leaks there's a finite number of people. do you expect it to run dry to even be accused of scaramucci could get you bounced? no. the disent we talk about. the feuding and the fifedoms.
i should point out the idea that anthony scaramucci is some kind of discipline d communicator, this is laughable. way back in 2012 which remember, he supported barack obama in 2008. so he doesn't have a long history there. since he's been involved in republican politics, he's had a reputation as a huge leaker to the point that the jeb bush campaign, an early backer in 2016, kept him off donor conference calls because they were anxious, they were nervous. they had reason to believe when he got off the calls, he would share the contents of them. in 2012 he would tweet from romney campaign finance meetings sensitive information about how much money they had raise that had the campaign would prefer to keep close. so this is not a -- he has a history of leaking, not cracking
down on leaks. >> not to mention the guy in the white house used to prepare to be john baron. michael steele, if chris matthews were here today, i feel that i can channel him. he would say at the end of the day at a certain point, governing is supposed to be about doing things. having an agenda and doing they will. it feels like 80 to 90% of this white house's time and energy is consumed with infighting, back biting, back stabbing, front stabbing. who is the person who knows anything about getting bills passed, governing. is there anyone who can do it? he may be a brilliant guy but he doesn't have a back ground in that either. >> you assume that's the goal
here. when you're creating reality tv presidencies, it is not about those times of objectives, which have been fairly traditional. it is about the moment and this president has been about creating moments whether they serve as a distract or an opportunity to create another narrative. that's our new reality. this is a presidency that is going to be continually transitioning toward whatever donald trump is feel or thinking or tweeting at that moment. so the policy and the agenda on legislation, you're talking big stuff like infrastructure and tax reform. that will have to rest with republican leaders on the hill. they'll have to get their collective acts together and be the driver and bring the president along. even that is not a guarantee as we saw health care. one minute, he says, i like you,
and the next minute he could call it mean. you're going to have to do had in a measured way. >> he's already said he doesn't want skinny tax reform. he wants big tax reform. >> let's bring in francesca chambers, white house correspondent for daily mail.com at bloomberg politics. where to go first? i'll start with you. >> the republican party is obviously having a frustrating week, as is the donald trump. who do people on the hill think they ought to call? if they pick up the phone and they want to get answers, who is it the person that they call that they think is knowledgeable about what the president wants? >> you asked who the person is in the white house who is the liaison and the answer is vice president mike pence. he's the one the white house has
been sending to the capitol hill. he is a former legislator so he does have that experience when it comes to that. when you talk about whether or not we'll get anything done the rest of the year, certainly, reince priebus, while he wasn't selling a lawmaker, or had worked capitol hill, he had been the committee chair. he was very close to house speaker paul ryan. he was going to be very critical to getting tax reform passed this year. >> so we now also are going to be facing confirmation hearings for a replacement for general kelly coming in the midst of the chaos. >> they already have an agenda in place. there are several nominations that will be coming up. we don't even have a nominee
yet. and send they will to the floor in the next two weeks. we're looking at fall before the department of homeland security has a new permanent secretary. this seems to be a pretty abrupt decision by a very mercurial president. it is almost poet pick it came on the day his signature legislation crashed into a brick wall. >> this was a president so emphasized the homeland security function. things like the ban on travellers from seven muslim countries. now he has vacated the office of homeland security. we heard they may not be able to replace him until the fall. >> maybe the president was not thinking ahead. john kelly is in the position, to do things like the travel ban. and things like the border wall. that president trump was a key
to his campaign. now they're stuck in this position, who is next to fill that position? where do we go from here? when we look at the other situations. jeff sessions. and the president attacking him. now it could be ag. jeff sessions. so are they thinking these things through? and what's the process? >> it does feel to be a completely chaotic administration. erica is the washington reporter for the alaska dispatch news. thank you for being here. i want to talk to you about one of the weird strategyems in the white house this week in an attempt to force through the repeal of obamacare. this threat made to lisa murkowski. to the state of alaska. if she didn't go along with it, that maybe alaska's economy would suffer or be attacked. how did that wind up going over with the two senators and the
people in the state? >> it didn't go over very well. i guess you could say it back fired. she urged her power and showed that she is chairman of the energy committee. she made it clear soon after that she wasn't bothered. they might have to try a different tactic. >> and in confirming new members of the cabinet, he's vacated a pretty important cabinet seat. now he has chief of staff that does not have experience on the hill. talk about how this will work. who will liaison with the senators and try to repair the relationships? >> that is an excellent question. i think it has been clear that
the white house is focused on politics instead of policy. when it comes to things like health care, senators care vex about the details of the policy. and they're not necessarily willing to play ball on elections. they have particular concerns and they want the president to speak to those. and he has not shown much of a willingness to do that. >> have you detected a detire to walk back the negative contact they had with her? >> i haven't heard anything of that, no. >> interesting times. i want to go back to the panel. michael steele, one of the wings shrinking is the rnc wing and everyone associated with it as former chairman of the rnc. where does that leave the organization? you already have donors that i assume are wondering why their
donations are going on donald trump's legal bills. where is the rnc at this point? >> good question. i think a lot of people are asking that. a disruption in the party flow. i don't think it will impact money or organization or things that the chairperson is doing at the moment. it does lead the a broader disruption that the party has to face in dealing with grassroots activists. whether they're pro trump or not. this instability in the west wing makes it very difficult for the party to organize itself. to begin to sort of put in place the building blocks they'll need for next year. >> when you stay word instability, do you know had a hates instability? wall street. it liked the idea of donald trump because they thought they
would get tax reform. how are people reacting to this? it looks like chaos. >> it is interesting that the markets have decoupled themselves. we've seen some records being sent this week. they decided under the obama administration, they felt like they lived under constant threat of new regulation. with that not the case, elizabeth warren now in a minority senate position and not with the ear of the president. they're not all that worried. the general feeling is that while president trump may not succeed in his massive tax reform and he may not succeed he in regulation, in the meantime, wages have been going up a little as unemployment goes down. consumers are feeling more confident. the economy is chugging along. donald trump will remind you
pits because of him that the stock market is at record levels and unemployment is low. these were all things that were trending for a while. i guess he gets some credit for the stock market but janet gellin gets most of it. the jeff sessions stuff was a concern. when russia ramps up, it becomes a concern. >> what i hear in what he is describing is a white house-free world. where the white house becomes irrelevant. the president tweets about changing the policy on tran service members. president trump appears to be melting down over russiagate. he fires his chief of staff after 89 days and the world chugs along. are we reaching a point where the white house is becoming irrelevant? >> well, not on the legislative
front. he is as you alluded to, he is happen strung the effort to push his legislative agenda through congress. him calling out republicans by nail for not supporting the bill. that's the opposite of what we've seen from white house that's have been successful at pushing legislation through congress. and that's really what you're measured by. what they do at the agency level that do have an impact. it is notable that general kelly coming from dhs was one of those agencies that had implemented this hard line on immigration. had created this new office for the victims of crimes perpetrated by undocumented immigrants. sort of in spite of donald
trump. he is doing himself no favors. >> after the senate's fail you're the fast obamacare repeal, donald trump tweeted three republicans and 48 democrats let the american people down. as i said from the beginning, let obamacare implode. then deal. watch. they should have approved health care last night. but you can't have everything. boy, oh, boy. they've been working on that one for seven years. the swamp. we'll get it done. we're going to get it done. i said from the beginning, let obamacare implode and then do it. let obamacare implode. >> aside from that's not whatted em, he was saying repeal and replace obamacare the first 100 days and made it a priority of his own. now throwing his senate
republican colleagueses under the bus. how does donald trump go back on tax reform? go back and ask him to get his vaunted wins. they all want tarm. they're not going to stop talking to him and he can't afford the same for them. in terms of the president's position, he's been in a number of places. sometimes simultaneously. sometimes he says let's let the law implode. he says we need to repeal it and then look down the road and replace it later. he said it needs to be repealed and replaced. that lack of discipline and clarity has muddied things up. it is up to speaker ryan and leader mcconnell to know. and i think they really misjudged it which is why we have this spectacular vote, late
last night, early this morning. where senator mccain diagnosed days ago with brain cancer. unexpectedly he is the deciding vote. so yes, speaker ryan and leader mcconnell want to move but that whole project is still in its infancy. republicans are no further along on tax reform than they were on health care when this started and that's clearly not been an easy effort. zm who are paul ryan's allies inside the white house? obviously his closest allies, the mafia, the it who does he t? >> you're right about that. that's the answer. the vice president is the one person he could look to. it is clear the president is ready to move on from the health care fiasco. you mention this week, he started to distance himself from what was going on in capitol
hill. he was saying they, the republicans should, not really mentioning himself. saying it was their last chance even. so it is very clear when the white house put out a tax policy, a joint statement, with paul ryan, with the majority leader, before the votes had finished, they were ready to move on to something else. remember, they have to raise the debt ceiling. they have a bunch of spending bills and that would be before they can vote a tax reform package and of course they want to get to infrastructure this year. the president wants a win. it is clear that he will take what he can get. >> you talked little about factionalism in the white house. if now the president becomes the focus of members of congress, maybe mitch mcconnell, if that's the person they're negotiating with, how fast before he becomes the object of the derision and
hatred that are squabbling for power, and then where does that leave donald trump? >> well, just to make a few points. one is this is how it is envisa envisaged. he doesn't have the votes on the hill. mike pence will be elevated and his operation, including his chief of staff, and mark short, who is currently the legislative director but on a personal level, very close to mike pence. that would be the team leading with capitol hill. so yes, his profile will be raised. ultimately, who knows what that will do? it will cause more scrutiny from the media. a more profile vp than he has been so far. maybe it will arouse people's jealousies. the other point i would make is i don't think we know yet.
they said don't be so sure that anthony scaramucci will be reporting directly to the president. this will be sorted out on monday. just remember, that one sentence in the press release the president put out saying scaramucci would report directly to him, that was just a huge middle finger to reince priebus. that was the purpose of. sentence. wasn't because anthony refuses to boring under anyone else. it was really saying, go jump in a lake. he would use more profane language. >> yes, he would. is there a possible that you wind up seeing mike pence become donald trump's dick cheney? >> no. it didn't work yesterday. i think it was historic in that you have donald trump, mitch mcconnell, the guy everybody thought was such a deal maker and can keep his conference in line.
and they couldn't pass a bill that they had all campaigned on for seven years and four elections. and they have the majority. no. it couldn't be done that way. we talk about tax reform. you'll remember that i have long referred to the health care bill. he doesn't even know how to refer to it. in that speech he gave, he talked about they couldn't even talk about health care. there was no thirk pass. there was the repeal of a bill involved tax incentives. they can't do tax reform now because a lot of the revenue they were going to save was in this health bill. so no. i don't see, mike pence couldn't get it done last night. nothing mattered more than that. john mccain said to one of our reporters that, i don't think what the expression was,
something like a teenager or an intern could do a better job of leading the conference. >> from the white house' point of view, a teenager might have known better than to threaten someone whose votes you need. and you are never friends again. i want to get through one more thing. i have to let the audience listen to this extraordinary piece of sound. he was giving a speech about come batting gang violence. he encouraged police to rough up suspects. >> when you see these thugs bean thrown into the back of a paddy wagon. rough. he said please don't be too nice. like when you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know, the way you put your hand. don't hit their head.
i said you can take the hand away, okay? >> late today the police department in suffolk county, new york, where trump was speaking pushed back a pretty good sub tweet saying the scpd has strict rules and procedures relating to the handling of prisoners. those violating the rules are treated extremely seriously. as a department, we do not and will not tolerate the roughing up of prisoners. the lapd has a history, what kind of a message does it send when the commander in chief and the president of the united states is so encouraging roughing up of suspects that the police department has to push back. >> before i came over here, i was on the phone with immigrants rights groups. they were saying, this is continued. we saw freddy gray in baltimore
and him being thrown in the back of the paddy wagon. people are saying, hey, if you're black or latino, this is emboldening police. some are reassured when they see the police department pushing back. but others are very concerned that this is involve police. >> when you have an administration that's down to this. ufl anthony scaramucci who has his own issues with colorful hot language. maybe he'll listen to general kelly, who knows? i guess the factions love this. does it help donald trump? >> it helps with the people who love him but not with the more than half the country that don't
love him or much stronger than that, despise him. as far as let trump be trump, general kelly does not strike me as a let trump be trump guy. i think there will be some pushback. whether it is successful is a whole other question. this is a waist first, raw meat, does nothing to reach out to the 54% or whatever it is that are not supporting him. >> hold on. >> it is similar to the rhetoric that he used during the campaign at rallies when there were protesters. he would encourage his supporters to rough them up. he would say get them out. a couple points, offered to pay the legal bills of supporters and i would point out, there are cases working through federal courts in kentucky and alabama, i believe, from protesters who
were roughed up. not just the ones laying hands on it but also, donald trump and his campaign. there's a real possibility that co-end it. certain people around him, maybe even donald trump, could end up answering questions. it is not a harmless thing. >> thank you very much. thank you all for sticking around. "all in" with chris hayes is up now. >> tonight on "all in" -- obamacare is alive and the white house is in chaos. just hours after president trump's greatest failure to date, his chief of staff is out. >> reince is a superstar. >> and replaced with a general. >>