tv MSNBC Live With Alex Witt MSNBC July 30, 2017 9:00am-10:00am PDT
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hello, everyone. i'm alex witt here. it's 9:00 am in the west, 12:00 pm in the east. we have new today president trump under pressure from the house and senate, preparing to sign a sanctions bill against iran, north korea and russia, but the russian deputy foreign minister says his country is preparing to retaliate to the sweeping sanctions and all options are on the table. >> and i think this is long overdue. on the 27th of july voted so overwhelmingly on a completely weird and unacceptable piece of legislation. it was the last straw. the u.s. side decides to move further towards further
deterioration we will respond in kind. replacing reince priebus as chief of staff. no indication that rival team also pull together under his leadership. here is what koir lewandowski said about the new chief of staff. >> what anthony scaramucci has said, if he wants to stab you, he will stab you in the front. general kelly wants to make sure that everybody on the staff is working for the good of the president and not their own agenda. maine senator susan collins is talking about the moments before the health care bill failed. one of three republicans against the so-called skinny repeal. she describes a last-ditch lobbying attempt by vice president mike pence. >> he can come over originally to break the tie that most people anticipated was going to
happen. when lisa murkowski of alaska and i voted no. instead the vice president ended up coming over to lobby john mccain directly, to try to get him to vote yes. and i was talking with john and i felt this tap on my shoulder and i turned around and it's the vice president. and he said to me, boy, are you tough. but he softened that by putting his arm around me. >> let's go now to nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house. another big sunday for you. a big day for general john an e kelly. are expectations high for him in washington? do they expect results with this appointment? >> extraordinarily high, alex, especially because of the respect that john kelly holds for his 45 years as a marine, retiring as a four-star general, time at homeland security department has been viewed as well run. even democrats look to him with
a favorable reputation. the expectation for can he be the change maker inside the white house, those are big questions. he will have to try to learn the lines of authority. there's been a free wheeling atmosphere where many top advisers could go into the oval office and speak to the president when they wanted to and not go through the chief of staff, which is the more typical structure. advice going around, certainly, from people who held the job and others who think they know what this white house needs. john podesta, who served as george bush's chief of staff and adviser to president obama, has some advice for john kelly. >> no doubt the president has told him that he has full authority. the real question is, will he allow him to exercise it?
will he accept the discipline that general kelly will try to impose on anthony scaramuccis, steve bannons, jared kushners and the rest. >> some advice as well, focused on john kelly looking for staff structural changes. here is cory lewandowski. >> thing that general kelly should do not change donald trump. you have to let trump be trump. that's made him successful the last 30 years. anybody who thinks he's going to change donald trump doesn't know donald trump. >> at this point where there's a bit of a honeymoon phase for a new chief of staff, senior advisers have described to us a readiness to do things differently, willingness to change how their own interactions go. what we don't know is, is the president willing to do things differently himself? will he invite staffers in without his chief of staff
knowing? will he make calls or do things that are out of this chain of command? a marine general certainly understands chain of command. there's a respect that the president has for john kelly. a toughness that he ascribes to him that may cause the president to try to hit a reset button himself. those are the things we'll be watching as this week unfolds. alex? >> for which we thank you, kelly o'donnell from the white house. with me now, democratic congresswoman from california. good to see you here in los angeles. i wish you were in studio with me. we're usually long dise and they still kept us apart. your impressions, first of all, about expectations for general kelly as chief of staff. your fellow congresswoman barbara lee says the president is militarizing this position, that kelly is an extremist, certainly on immigration. what is your take? >> it will be interesting to see
what happens and toe see the tweets that happened about north korea, the danger that puts us in and the fear that it has struck in our allies, south korea and japan. one of the first tests of the new chief of staff, will he be able to prevent that? the prior person said we have to let trump be trump. but letting trump be trump has created chaos not only in our country but internationally. >> we get to the u.s. bombers, two of whom, which, rather, flew over north korea, a show of force after the launch. the president was tweeting criticism of china, dissatisfaction with their efforts to stop the missile program or lack thereof. some may argue about the method. twitter. but does the president have a point? >> well, you know, who knows if he has a point. but that is just no way to conduct foreign policy.
he wants china to cooperate with us, so he blasts them in a tweet? this is a tremendous threat. not just to our country but to our allies. there needs to be a strategy within the white house there. is no way that anybody believes there is a strategy right now because they might be negotiating inside the white house. he comes out and tweets something entirely different. so i think that's very destructive behavior and i'm hoping that the new chief of staff will be able to bring a stop to that. >> ma'am, do you think the u.s. has not been demanding enough of the chinese in this regard? >> well, i think that there needs to be a sit down meeting where there is a full, comprehensive strategy. and it's very difficult to tell. because all we have are the tweets. i'm hoping when we go back in session we will have hearings and try to get some sense to see if there is a strategy.
we really can't tell right now. >> north korea is saying that these latest missiles are capable of reaching the u.s. main land. i spoke to an expert who said the u.s. has almost zero options when it comes to halting north korea and ibcm. are there no good opgs? >> i do think there are options and, to me, i absolutely believe that the opgs rest with our ability to have a strong relationship with china, with the united nations and that the whole world comes together. but, again, i think it's very difficult when the person who had been the leader of the free world leads in such an erratic fashion. so we don't have a sense in the foreign affairs committee if, inside the white house, everybody has come together and decided on a strategy. at this point, there's no way to tell. >> let's move on to the russia sanctions bill, which the president expected to sign. russia is now retaliating, seizing u.s. properties in that
country. here is what the deputy russian foreign minister had to say about that this morning. >> if the u.s. side decides to move further toward further deterioration, we will respond in kind. we will mirror this. we will retaliate. but my whole point is don't do this. it's to the detriment of the interests of the u.s. >> level of retaliation there certainly being indicated. are the sanctions worth risking a deteriorating relationship with russia? what would it take to reset this relationship again? >> we certainly had to respond. the response from this administration is to essentially been an apologyist for russia. the president signed the bill, but he didn't have a choice. if he didn't sign the bill, which you know he was trying to water down until the very last minute. if he didn't sign the bill, we were going to override his veto.
it puts him in a very difficult situation, especially with the ongoing investigation. and we really haven't gotten to the bottom of what the relationship has been with the president, with his family, with his associates and the russian government. so, it will be interesting to see how we move this further along. but i think it will be very difficult to reset a relationship with russia until we get to the bottom of what is the relationship with this administration and the russian government? not just during the campaign, but years back. what are the financial entanglements? >> we'll see if we ever get to the bottom of that, that's for sure. >> we will. >> mixed bag. might take a while, though. i know that you called the president's decision to ban transgender american serving in the military, quote, disgusting. here is what a former navy s.e.a.l. told me about the president's decision. >> this is not a business. it's not like one of his
buildings there in new york city. this is people. the military is strong because of the quality of the folks. we got through selection process, everything else. leave the doors wide open. >> would you add anything to what kristin beck is saying there? do you think the decision by this president makes our country less safe? >> well, i absolutely do. and let me just use this as an example. remember, the military said they were going to examine what the policy was around transgenders, people participating in the military. they said they were going to release a report in several months. so the president preempts that with the form of a tweet without recognizing that you are talking about thousands of people who are in the military today, in active duty, defending the country around the world. they wake up and find out while they're putting their lives on the line, they wake up and find out, i guess i'm being discharged. is it going to be honorably,
dishonorably? should i pack my bags? should i go? what kind of leader does that to his troops? this is the commander in chief. how are they supposed to have respect for him? >> leaders in the pentagon usurped those concerns and as for now things are status quo. >> exactly. right. >> karen bass, hope to see you next time in studio. make it a promise. >> absolutely. can the mucch restore order? that's next. oscar mayer is making big changes to hot dogs. we went back to the drawing board... and the cutting board. we removed the added nitrates and nitrites, by-products, and artificial preservatives
terrific american. he was a great leader of men. he is not going to put up with the mooch. unless the mooch conforms himself to general kelly's command, which i don't think the mooch is capable of. mooch, kelly. pick one. if general kelly can't bring order to this white house this white house is gone forever. >> and that is former pennsylvania governor ed rendell on this show with me yesterday. eliza collins and molly cooper. big hello to both of you. i'm asking you where the smart money is, that the two will not be able to coexist for very long. if not, does that mean the tumult in the west wing will continue? >> john kelly and the mooch as he was calling him, are pretty different personalities. stunning interview from
scaramucci as he went down the list, i will fire anybody on this staff. he said awful things about priebus, steve bannon. he has shown already he has no problem publicly going against people in the white house. john kelly is about order. he's a military general. he's used to kind of the chain of command. and we'll see how having him and scaramucci as communications director but clearly high up in trump's eyes and has access to the president already, we'll see how they go together. >> we sure will. molly, by my count, president trump tweeted 13 times yesterday, pretty prolific, even by his own standards. is that because he's still operating under the let trump be trump scaramucci rule and do you think that will change when john kelly takes the reins? >> let trump by trump because trump is going to be trump. the more people in the white house who push back against that, the more trump wanted to be himself and would tweet
things that just caught the eye and surprise of those on capitol hill. that's not a great position to be in. what general kelly brings, as a chief of staff -- and this is something up on capitol hill that you need in a good chief of staff, somebody who is going to be your gatekeeper. speaker john boehner had a terrific chief of staff. she died tragically right before he took that gavel and some say speaker boehner may have had more success as speaker had she been there. she closed the doors. she let people in. she was the one who saw his book. because when you're in a position like president of the united states and speaker of the house, everybody wants your ear. you have to have somebody who has the strength, the respect, the trust with that person that they are going to let the right people in and take care of the
issues with the other people coming to the president. >> yeah. that's why they're called the gatekeeper. >> the gatekeeper. >> one of the tweets, molly, by the president, bailout for members of congress will end very soon. what does he mean by that? and is that a way to encourage a bill's passage? >> it didn't work with lisa murkowski, who reportedly had a call from the interior minister who said you've got these projects in alaska that i don't know we'll be so interested in pursuing if you vote no on this measure. threats don't really work well with members of congress unless -- this one would actually hit home. members of congress when the affordable care act went into place, members of congress and their staff were subject to obamacare. they had to go on obamacare. because it's so expensive to maintain some of these premiums and co-pays -- and this happens
for people across the country on obamacare. they get subsidies. basically these subsidies go to the insurance companies to lower the premiums for members of congress and other people. i think it's 100 to 250 -- regardless it keeps their premiums lower. if the president decides to not pay these csrs, cause reductions, then premiums for members of congress and capitol hill staffers would skyrocket as would, likely, the other folks who are benefits of the csrs. >> all right. eliza, look at what the "new york times" wrote. the president starts this new week after one of the worst weeks that modern occupants of the oval office have experienced in its inaugural year in power. is that an unfair assessment? zblie think many times we sat here and said this week you can't top. there was a mix of things. white house shakeups, high
profile. we saw the residual from sean spicer's resignation, priebus resigning. very public feud with attorney general jeff sessions who, of course, was his earliest supporter. and i think that all happened. on capitol hill we saw the repeal of the affordable care act go down. that was the major piece of republican legislation they've been pushing for seven years. across the board, not great. we saw the scaramucci interview. coming into it, they do need to set a reset button. priebus said i'm stepping back so they can do that. we've had some pretty crazy weeks before. this one just happened to hit on a lot of different topic area. >> what are the chances we'll have crazy weeks ago? give me a scale of one to ten. >> i would say 11. >> margin of error 10. >> buckle up, ladies. thank you very much for your
time. >> thank you. jared kushner and paul manafort both paid visits to capitol hill this week. where is the russian investigation now that they've heard from two cabinet members? shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette.
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welcome back, eryo. i'm alex witt live in los angeles. four men arrested in connection to a plot to bomb an airplane. officials say the plotters are believed to be islamists inspired. police conducted raids overnight and, quote, seized a considerable amount of material. let's go now to the latest in the russia probe. where does it stand today after jared kushner appeared in the closed door meeting with the senate, followed by testimony
under oath in front of the house committee the following day? paul manafort also met with the committee about meetings with russians. stage for us the impact of both kushner and manafort's visit to capitol hill? >> it was a consequential week in the investigation, alex. kushner denied any collusion and did so under oath. that needs to be taken seriously. his lawyers would not have let him go up to the hill and testify under oath and commit perjury if they thought he was in legal jeopardy. there are a lot of questions about his account and the meeting that paul manafort went up to the hill to talk about, that meeting at trump tower last june between the russian lawyer,
lobbyist, donald junior, manafort and kushner. fundamentally, whatever happened in that meeting -- there's no evidence to rebuke the idea that it was a meeting about russian sanctions and the trump team didn't think vy much about it. whatever happened, iwas held perfect -- pursuant to an e-mail. that is a sign post for investigators, we have a long way to go and they're trying to find out if there were any other meetings and whether ultimately help was accepted by the trump team. >> jush committee about whether he believes kushner's testimony that he did not collude. let's take a look at that. >> no. i mean, no. he has had to refile his disclosure form a number of times. i've written a letter, asking for at least to suspend his
security clearance. i think -- you know, who knows? this may come down to what does the president know and when did his son-in-law tell him. >> what is your take on what the senator said? >> what you're seeing there is a skepticism that a lot of democrats have about kushner's account. i talked to one person in the room when kushner testified before the house. he said look, the guy seemed like he was answering every question and had nothing to hide and was frank and forthright. fundamental questions about his account. one of the biggest has to do with his meeting of veb bank, under sanctions. kushner says he took the meeting at the request of the russian ambassador and in a diplomatic role in december, during the transition. the bank has said something entirely different. it was a road show. we were talking to kushner as a businessman. that account has to be
reconciled by investigators and that's one question remaining that lawmakers have about jared kushner's accot. the president has been tweeting russia was against trump in the election. why not? i want strong military, low oil prices, witch hunt. and what do you think is something about that dossier at this point? >> as you know, some salacious allegations about donald trump and -- the firm that helped put it together was the subject of a hearing on the hill last week where it emerged. this has been known. focus was on the fact that they also worked for some russians in this case involving the magnitsky act. they were on both sides of the putin divide. some are using that to discredit the dossier. others are saying they're like a
law firm. they work for whoever pays them. ultimately, it's going to be up to the fbi, robert mueller and the house and senate to determine how much of the dossier is true and how much isn't true. no doubt that the allegations in the dossie. r are what's being investigated by robert mueller right now. >> joining me now, former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael c mcphaul. done talking about north korea. china is aware they must act. not only a u.s. problem or increased pressure probably she meant there. it will require an international solution. this follows the president's two tweets, expressing his disappointment with china. from a diplomacy perspective here, it seems like a full court press by tweet.
what do you make of this? >> not a great way to deal with a very serious problem. both ambassador haley's tweets but also the president's tweets are kind of saying, you know, other people need to solve this problem for us. we're going to stop talking about it. diplomats need to be talking about it every day. perhaps behind closed doors. not on twitter. to try to create an international coalition to deal with the north korean threat. for the president, to threaten china and say you need to deal with this and then stop tweeting, that is not a real strategy for how to deal with north korea. >> nikki haley's tweet, are you surprised by that? >> i am. they say we're done talking about north korea and keep talking about it. i would say this is a hard issue. obviously, if it was an easy
issue, previous democrats or republicans would have solved it. it has to be engaged in a very serious way. in particular, threatening china to solve the problem for us, i do not think it's going to be a winning strategy. >> but the president said china can solve this easily. >> a, that's not true. it's not easily solvable and china sees the threat in a different way than we do. they're not being threatened by north korea. yes, they have the capacity to strike china with its missiles and nuclear weapons but most certainly don't have the intent. to assume that it's china's problem, deal with it, and for us to sit on the sidelines i'm very skeptical that that's a winning strategy. >> others have suggested there are no good options to solving the problem with north korea. how do you see it? >> i agree with that. there are no good options, no
black and white options. that doesn't mean we can't make the situation better. you know, i look at what our administration, the obama administration did with iran. it took many years to get to that agreement and included new sanctions and coercive diplomacy before we got a deal but ultimately we got a deal. with respect to north korea, you know, i think the idea that they're going to get rid of their nuclear weapons, i think that's highly unrealistic. i do think there are ways to slow down the testing of their icbm, their missile program and to slow down the testing of their nuclear weapons, but that requires negotiation, diplomacy. that requires engagement behind closed doors. not just on twitter, in order to achieve that outcome. >> all right. let's move on to russia now. the president has reviewed the final version of the legislation, says he intends to sign it. russia says it will seize two
diplomatic policies. russia was asked how its country would further retaliate. here it is. >> we have at our disposal -- it would be ridiculous on my part to start speculating. i can assure you that different options are on the table and consideration is being given to all sorts of things, symmetrical or asymmetrical, to use very popular words in the world of diplomas. >> i what does that mean symmetrical or asymmetrical? what do you think will be russia's next move? >> first of all i want to remind everybody the reason that the sanctions bill is on the president's desk is because of what russia did to us, in our elections, violating our sovereignty, meddling in our 2016 presidential election. we did not do that to the russians. so, it's already, in my opinion,
asymmetrical that they are taking this response to our sanctions. having said that, vladimir putin does play this way when there's a tit-for-tat, he doubles down and increases the punishment. when the magnitsky act passed in 2012, i was ambassador at the time. he said informally that he would respond in kind and sanction some u.s. officials as well for, quote, unquote, human rights violations. he did that. then he went one step forward, banned adoptions for american parents. that's what i think sergei rybkov is alluding to that. they may go in an asymmetric response to what the president signed into law. >> this new sanctions bill, what does that do for diplomacy? >> again, when they escalate i
don't think it's in russia's national interest. he stranded thousands of russian children living in orphanages, often with severe disabilities that americans were willing to put in good homes. he hurt russians. likewise, if they shut down, the numbers are a little aiguous as to what it really means. if hundreds of americans have to leave the russian embassy -- u.s. embassy in russia, that means that russians will have a much harder time getting visas to come to the united states. so, realize that it may sound like tough talk but, in fact, many times he's hurting russians, not americans, with these kinds of responses. >> saying they're going to cap the border as it relates to diplomats. michael mcfaul, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. what al franken told me about what it was like to be on the senate floor when john
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he said he had not had communications with russians and it turned out he did. there seems to be a collective amnesia on russians when it comes to the trump administration. he needs to explain himself on that. all that said this idea of getting him out of the way so the president can fire mueller is something that if the president were to do that would create a constitutional crisis. >> part of my conversation with senator al franken on why he would like attorney general jeff sessions to reappear before the senate committee. i also asked him about the defeat of the health care bill. he described to me what it was
like to be on the senate floor when the measure failed. >> did you know what mccain was going to do? were you surprised by that? >> not in the moment. i was watching body language and there seemed to be a moment when the vice president left the floor. you may remember in the last vote he preside over that whole vote. when he left the floor, i felt that it -- you know, it was a nice moment. >> why do you think he did that? >> well, you know, when he gave his speech after he -- here is a guy just diagnosed with brain cancer. he flies in to take a vote and after the vote says we should probably do this in regular order. i'm not happy with anything i'm seeing right now. shouldn't have been surprising.
he did say we should go to regular order. and i could see someone who gave that same speech voting no then. he gave his colleagues a chance to come up with something and everything they came up with was just dreadful and this thing was hardly could be called a bill. so it's not surprising he voted no. and i think senator collins and murkowski both deserve tremendous gratitude because they were staunch. >> did not waiver. >> and senator murkowski received some pressure that i think she found a transactional senator, here to make public policy. i have tremendous respect for lisa murkowski and senator collins. they couldn't have played it
worse with her. >> the book is "al franken: giants of the senate." i read most of it on the plane to l.a. from new york last night and it's a great read. you can see more of this interview on msnbc.com. former trump campaign manager has words of wisdom for general john kelly. that's coming up in three minutes. because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open.
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the thing that general kelly should do is not try to change donald trump. as you know, i've said you have to let trump be trump. that is what made him successful over the last 30 years and anybody who thinks they're going to change donald trump doesn't know donald trump. >> former donald trump campaign manager corey lieu want do ski with a word of advice for incoming new chief of staff. joining me now, the former chief of staff for general joe
manchin. hey, guys, good to see you both. ladies first here, susan. we have seen what it means to let trump be trump. a lot of it involving shooting from the hip so to speak. it seems like the people closest to the president are echoing this sentiment. isn't letting trump be trump what has sown all this chaos? >> yes, the reason why secretary kelly's now coming into this position is i think to really create discipline and order and, frankly, to get the government moving. there's a lot of appointments that haven't been made. there's a lot of things throughout the agencies that need to get done. and yes, to add discipline on who has being an access to the and on what level. did he say, donald trump, i'll do this, but if there's only a certain amount of people who have access and i want scarmucci
to report to me. we'll find out tomorrow. but the purpose of this apparentment was to get some discipline back in the white house, not necessarily operations to the white house, not necessarily to donald trump. >> let trump be trump, do you get a sense the rest of the world sees it exactly the opposite? >> well, everyone would like to see trump reined in. so yes, everyone would love to see that. i just don't know if it's realistic and to have that level of expectation that that can be done. i mean, kelly can't go, mr. president, i saw you, you did four tweets today, you're not supposed to do that. help just won't be able to have that relationship with the president. >> so, chris, general kelly and anthony scarmucci, the new white house communications director, could not be more different. do you think they're going to be able to coexist at this point? >> probably not. if the last, you know, week or so has been indicative of how
scare muchy basically operates, he's going to essentially feed off the fact that he answers only to president trump. i mean, i think the mistake that people are making in this whole debate about john kelly and a new chief of staff, new changes in the white house, is they're missing i think a larger point. president trump is the chief of staff. he's the chief of staff. he's the secretary of state. he's the national security adviser. he is literally everything. and when you have a candidate or a president in this case who is unwilling to listen to others who are more experienced, more knowledgeable, because they think they're smarter on everything, they're unmanageable. it is that simple. and so the chaos that people have seen, if you want any indication of what it's going to be like. listen, since john kelly has basically been appointed, he's been on a twitter rant, the president has. just in the last day or so. not indicative of a white house in control. you can change the internal operations all you want, but a president is defined, an administration is defined, by
the external actions they take. that is measured by what the president says. and doesn't say. and no one seems to be able to control that. >> so you said at the top you do not think these two will be able to coexist. i don't know if you heard former pennsylvania governor ed rendell when he said, thanksgiving, it's going to be an either/or. one of them gone by thanksgiving. >> i think he's right. here's what's going to end up happening. at some point, you know, kelly, who is a military man, has that kind of a background, is going to want to impose a certain order. the one order he wants to impose is internal. in terms of who meets the president. when he meets them. or she meets them. as well as all the other, you know, things that go on on a day-to-day basis, scheduling, et cetera. if scarmucci or others are basically end-running the chief of staff, i can't imagine he'll want that or approve that. the president is going to make that choice. we've seen what he does. he pits adviser against adviser. in all the years i've been in
politics, i've never seen a republican or democratic administration, president, senate, ever do this. and it is dysfunction by definition. i don't know how that changes. >> just to follow up on that point, alex, i think one thing's worth noting. yes, we're all looking to see who donald trump asked to lead. sean spicer, chief of staff, priebus. it's going to be interesting who chooses to leave and who says "i've had enough" whether it's tillerson, mcmaster or perhaps kelly. >> i do want to talk about the new shot of the special counsel bob mueller from former trump campaign adviser robert stone. happenped at a political event yesterday. here's what he said about that. >> in view of the fact mr. mueller auditioned for mr. comey's job, he is hopelessly conflicted in this matter. on that basis alone, he should step down. >> wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
comey is -- mueller is compromised because he wanted to be -- >> because he interviewed with the president for comey's job after he stepped down. >> so? >> that's a very clear conflict. >> so you heard, susan, there were those reports of the president's legal team was looking for conflicts in mueller's investigation, potentially to try to set up some cause for firing him. are we going to see a move on this in the august recess? >> i don't think so. i think there's too much pushback from the senate. it's also worth noting what roger stone conveniently left out is that the president requested to see mueller. he wasn't looking for the job. but when the president of the united states says, please come in, i'd like to meet with you, you typically go. i don't think roger gave the full explanation. but as far as the investigation goes, if he does get robert mueller fired and replaces sessions, it's not going to end the investigation. the senate will continue it. the house, i don't -- i can't say with as much certainty, but
certainly the senate will continue. >> yeah. chris, former clinton campaign chairman john podesta is saying the relationship between the white house and the justice department, that it just -- it needs to be at the very top of the general's list of priorities. take a look at that. >> i think he's got to protect the justice department and he's got to protect bob mueller and the investigation that's going on there from the continued assault by the president and by the white house. it's going to be his job to provide a bull work against interference by the white house which at the end of the day is going to get them in more trouble rather than less. >> what do you think the general needs to do to succeed here, chris? >> pray a lot. in all seriousness. i'm not sure how you're going to be able to control the president on this investigation. whether he fires, you know, mueller or not. i don't know. and my guess is there's going to be at least some ability to hold him back on that. the question is how long. if he does, it is, you know,
essentially you're going to have a constitutional crisis of some kind. i mean, even the senate republicans understand how unbelievably negative that story would be and catastrophic for this country. so i don't know whether that happens or not. i think john kelly's ability to hold back the president is going to be measured by how effective he is and how effective can he be when he's trying to manage president trump. people have tried. we've seen it. it hasn't worked. >> i know. we're going to see if that's a rhetorical question or not, chris and susan. guys, thank you so much. good to see you. >> thank you. >> for all of you, don't go anywhere. i'll be right back in the next hour when my guest will be former presidential candidate for the green party dr. jill stein. you're not taking that. you're not taking that. you're not taking that. mom, i'm taking the subaru. don't be late. even when we're not there to keep them safe,