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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  August 10, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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actually a treaty for this. it's called the treaty on open skies ux it establishes a regime of unarmed aerial observation over the areas of signatories. when two words put together make a bit of a chill run down your spine, it's all in the up and up. if you see a low flying plane with a russian flag, ilt might seem panic is warranted, it isn't. at least not yet. that's all we have tonight. "the beat with ari melber" begins right now. >> thank you, mr. todd. we begin with breaking news, president trump speaking out and making himself known on a range of issues. discussing the fbi's raid of his former campaign manager's house. >> i thought it was a very, very strong signal or whatever. i know mr. manafort, haven't spoken to him in a long time, but i know he was with the campaign as you know for a very short period of time, relatively
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short period of time, but i always thought relatively good man. i thought it was a very, you know, they do that very seldom. so i was surprised to see it. i was very, very surprised to see it. but to do that early in the morning, whether or not it was appropriate you'd have to ask them. i've always found paul manafort to be a very decent man. and he's like a lot of other people probably makes consultant fees from all over the place. who knows. i don't know. but i thought that was a very pretty tough stuff. to wake him up, perhaps his family was there, i think that's pretty tough stuff. >> wow. there is a lot to what the president said there and a lot more. we're going to break it all down for you right now in our breaking coverage. but first, consider the president saying he hasn't spoken to paul manafort in a long time. that's new. he says he was surprised to see this raid, and he drops that manafort probably makes consulting fees from all over the place. something he apparently knows in his story line without having
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spoken to paul manafort. what we just saw particularly on russia was a tale here of two donald trumps. on the one hand a man offering a parsed and even at times informed breakdown of these issues, unveiling a new chapter in what looks like a legal strategy in saying that if there are alleged crimes, they are either not a big deal or were not committed by him. >> i mean, we have a situation which is very unusual. everybody said there's no collusion. you look at the counsels that come in, we have a senate hearing, we have judiciary, we have intelligence, and we have a house hearing and everybody walks out even the enemies said, no, there's no collusion, there's no collusion, so they're investigating something that never happened. >> that's not how it works. indeed, the fbi can't legally investigate something if there's no basis to believe it happened. that fbi raid we just heard the president allude to of paul manafort's home, that was approved by a judge who found reasonable cause there was evidence of a crime. that would be the opposite of
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saying something didn't happen. now, what is special counsel investigating right now? what is bob mueller looking at? well, this thing that never happened could be collusion that involves others or it could be something foreign like the hacking that doesn't ultimately involve americans. either way there are some crimes that have enough evidence to investigate. and then, this was very interesting when the president moments ago was pressed op special counsel mueller's job security, he struck this note. >> if you sought or thought or considered leading to the dismissal of special counsel, is there anything bob mueller could do that would send you in that direction? >> i haven't given it any thought. i mean, i've been reading about it from you people. you say, oh, i'm going to dismiss him. no, i'm not dismissing anybody. i want them to get on with the task. but i also want the senate and the house to come out with their findings. now, judging from the people leaving the meetings, leaks, but they leave the meetings all the time and say, no, we haven't found any collusion.
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there is no collusion. you know why? because i don't speak to russians. look, i won because i suppose i was a much better candidate than her. i won because i went to wisconsin, i went to michigan, i won pennsylvania. i fought a smart battle. that's why i won. i didn't win because of russia. russia had nothing to do with me winning. >> russia had nothing to do with me winning. that's a claim, but certainly not a fact. and not one that has been done investigated at this point in time. let's be clear, it's 6:04 p.m. on the east coast. the president just said a lot of things. we're going to show you some of the other newsworthy items that he offered. but at this hour his claims that russia had nothing to do with anything indeed later i'm going to show you him claiming russia was working against him. several of these claims are false and they suggest a president who wants to get out ahead of the russia investigation on a day when obviously north korea and a lot of other issues are still in the news. so the question is why. why did he unfurl this strategy this way? we have an all-star panel to get
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right into it. former fbi agent special in charge of the new york field office leo, did cyber there, chris tin, shelby holiday here with me onset in new york, senior political reporter at "the wall street journal," and david k. johnson, author of the making of donald trump and a man who has seriously investigated donald trump's financial ties and history. david, would you agree with me that we heard a president who wanted to get into the details on this thing? he offered a specific view of the manafort raid, and perhaps more interestingly he suggested that paperwork violations might be a felony but they're not a big deal. >> what i heard donald doing, ari, was editing himself. he has told so many lies. donald creates his own reality that he can't keep all of it straight. that's why he stops, he hesitates, he backs up. and he makes these absurd comments. everybody knows nothing happened
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because in donald's view whatever he thinks is what everybody thinks. and then i have no dealings with russians. well, i have news for donald about that. rex tillerson as the head of exxon mobil didn't pump gasoline either, but nobody thinks he wasn't in the gasoline business. >> wow, i hear you on that. i mean, leo, i want to play for you investigators' kind of mine field of claims including as i promised to show for our viewers here, donald trump coming out here this evening and saying that, hey, everyone, russia was actually fighting to stop his election. take a listen. >> there was no collusion between us and russia. in fact, the opposite. russia spent a lot of money on fighting me. i don't think russia wants me because i want a strong military and i want low energy prices. additionally, it seems that russia spent a lot of money on that false report and that was russian money. and i think it was democrat money, too, you could say that was collusion. plus, the democrats colluded on
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the ukraine so they colluded. as far as papers and did somebody forget to file a paper, i guarantee if you look around at everyone e everybody that made a speech, that's up to them. did they do something wrong because they didn't file the right document or whatever? perhaps, you'll have to look at them. but i guarantee you this, probably a lot of people in washington did the same thing. >> leo, as a former fbi investigator, how do you think this team under mueller will look at those new statements from the president? >> well, my experience fbi agents and prosecutors don't execute search warrants in cases where it's a simple violation of not filing the right document. so there's obviously a serious crime alleged in the affidavit. there's evidence or probable cause at least that evidence was on the prem sis that they searched and a judge agreed and issued the warrant. so i don't think having a minor
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violation as the president described not filing a document because you gave a speech or whatever he meant would warrant a search warrant executed by fbi agents or any other federal law enforcement agency. >> fascinating. because the president was calling that, you know, pretty tough and all that, christopher roland, leo making the point here in terms of how this works it's not about how tough it is, it's about whether there's evidence of an underlying crime. >> right, absolutely. and i think there's certainly a shock and awe factor of, you know, making a predawn raid on paul manafort's house. federal agency reported to be investigating any number of things including his interesting real estate transactions, not just omissions of filing. but i think ultimately it seems my read on that was they're putting maximum pressure on paul manafort, and it could be a strategy aimed at trying to flip him and get him to talk to them about what he knows about the
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campaign. you know, typically in these federal investigations the investigators will start low and try to work their way up the food chain. i also notice that the president made a comment that paul manafort was a short period of time was he in charge of the campaign. it was actually two and a half months. and i think one of the critical things that happened in those two and a half months was that the trump campaign worked very aggressively to water down the republican platform at the convention to make sure no arms were going to be sold to the ukrainians. and i thought that was a very interesting development that happened on paul manafort's watch. i suspect that the investigators are looking at that as well. >> shelby. >> you know, paul manafort didn't just chair the campaign for two months either, he lived in trump tower. and there are reports of them riding the elevators up and down together. we don't know what they said. we don't know how much they interacted. but to the point of paul manafort flipping, donald trump did not sound like someone worried about that today. >> no. >> he sort of threw manafort under the bus. you listed the reasons, but he
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said i know him, he worked for me for a very short period of time. we also talked about why mueller would do this predawn raid. you know, he didn't trust manafort to produce documents, he wanted to do this in a quick way, but he also may have wanted to get manafort and the president's attention. and he certainly succeeded in doing that. donald trump seemed pretty shocked and serious when he was talking about this today. "the wall street journal" also published a story just now, trump's attorney john dowd wrote the journal this morning very early 4:00 a.m. calling mueller's raid on manafort extraordinarily invasive and gross abuse. so it's almost like the tables have turned. we usually hear trump saying this is a witch hunt. today trump embraced the investigation and his lawyers are essentially calling it a witch hunt. it's really hard to unpack all of these things, but they change every sing l day. >> relying on "the wall street journal" reporting that this by the message of donald trump was
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more restrained, even talked about the outcome of investigation being a positive thing for him. speak to shelby's point and this reporting in bloomberg that paul manafort says he alerted authorities to this controversial meeting on june 9th, the trump tower meeting, with this russian lawyer promising damaging information on hillary clinton according to to, quote, people familiar with the matter. the president and son-in-law kushner dragged into the matter in july as details emerged that contradicted the initial counts of that meeting, leo. >> yeah, i don't think that has any bearing on whether or not the investigative team will execute a search warrant. just because someone provides information doesn't mean they're holding back other information. but i think you might be reading a little bit too much into the 6:00 a.m. or predawn raid. almost every single search warrant is executed at about 6:00 in the morning if not earlier for a number of reasons. people are usually home at that time. it gives the agents enough of daylight to execute a complex warrant. so this is not an extraordinary
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time to go to someone's home. and they're never announced because you would be telegraphing enough time for a defendant to destroy evidence if that were the case. so the execution of the warrant is routine. the fact that it was issued is something that can be studied and perhaps we can glean where the investigative team is going with it. >> and, christopher, where does this go from here? >> well, you know, it's interesting that the president said that he wants the senate and the house to come out with their findings. i think we're looking at, you know, still months and months of grinding fact finding and investigations. and, yes, they'll be more leaks and revelations, but i don't think we're seeing some quick resolution that the president wants that he's going to be somehow vindicated rapidly. i just don't think that's going to happen. >> and, david, the money trail? >> well, paul manafort was paid in addition to expenses over $17 million in fees that we know about by the pro-putin ukrainian
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government that was ousted. he has been the agent in washington of all sorts of vicious dictators. there are a number of curious real estate transactions, and donald has lots and lots of real estate transactions that in a normal business sense don't make sense. i think leo is quite right about the warrant. it's not particularly unusual that it was issued early in the morning, but the fact they issued this warrant suggests that to whatever extent manafort had been cooperating, and he said he was, something came up that alarmed them and they wanted to secure that evidence. and when we get the return from the search warrant, we'll see what they were after in mueller's effort to make cases. >> i also think the timing is really interesting because this raid happened right after manafort was on capitol hill. it happened as the senate intelligence committee was basically removing their subpoena. and so it's a sign that manafort -- or that mueller is working with congress and that this investigation is actually going very smoothly. there were a lot of concerns
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that they would sort of mess up each other's investigations and so far that is not the case. >> right. fascinating. and, look, the president that we saw here for folks keeping track, made the usual arguments, no collusion, made the eagle argument i won because i'm awesome. he's entitled to say that as any politician is, and then some other things that were false here claiming russia was spending money to try to stop him and for folks keeping score at home, you might see headlines about how mueller's job is safe. that's not exactly what the president said. we're going to dig into that as well. shelby sticks around. leo, christopher and david, thank you for your expertise. really appreciate it. coming up, why the president was also thanking vladimir putin today. we haven't shown you that yet. and, trump escalating a very odd feud over recess, a man many say he can't afford to alienate, some calling this the best news the resistance has gotten this summer, mitch mcconnell under fire. and, later, we have a special report tonight on "the beat," a look at how and why donald trump's once arguably warm relationship with african-american viewers change.
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turning to politics. president trump's feud with senate republican majority leader mitch mcconnell escalating today. >> -- consider stepping down authority some conservative analyst say it's time for him to retire. >> well, i'll tell you what, if he doesn't get repeal and replace done, and if he doesn't get taxes done, meaning cuts and reform, and if he doesn't get a very easy one to get done infrastructure, if he doesn't get them done, then you can ask me that question. you can ask me the question. that means ask me that question. let's hope he gets it done. >> ask away. and let's be clear, that's the president suggesting mcconnell should resign if he doesn't deliver on this agenda. this is not actual typical party
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infighting in washington. this is a fight with the one republican holding the key to trump's entire agenda on capitol hill. it's basically like picking a fight with the bouncer when you're trying to get into the club. you start that kind of beef, you're probably not getting into the club. now, a few hours after those comments trump was right back at it. >> i'm very disappointed in mitch. but if he gets these bills passed, i'll be very happy with him and i'll be the first to admit it. but honestly, repeal and replace of obamacare should have taken place. >> with me now the nation's joan walsh conservative commentator, kirsten, there's a lot of policy riding on this fight, joan. >> that's right, but he doesn't understand the president is a giant man baby, nothing is ever his fault. now mitch mcconnell has to take the fall. i mean, i would give mcconnell some of the blame. he did this in secret with a little group that included no
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women. >> obamacare. >> no. >> repeal and replace. >> he did that really in secret. he was not forthcoming until the very end of the vary processes with what was in the bills. and he also got caught by a lot of reporting playing both ends against the middle telling some moderate senators that, oh, these medicaid cuts that you're worried about in eight years, they'll never take place. they'll be a whole different congress then. so he lost the trust of both sides. that was bad. but that's not really what happened. what happened was the republican party is no longer a governing party. it does not fundamentally agree with itself on key issues of government spending and the social safety net. and mcconnell didn't have the juice to put it together. and we also learned -- >> that's incredible. >> we also learned that donald trump didn't have any juice in the situation. i mean, look at what he did to lisa murkowski, having ryan zinke, the interior secretary, try to blackmail her and say she's not going to get interior money for alaska if she doesn't step up. that was all trump. that was a classic misplaying of
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a senator. >> so, kirsten, i have a trump political riddle for you. >> oh, great. >> what's worse, him getting up in the morning and tweeting what's on the top of his mind, or him going out to reporters and getting twice baited into a recess fight with the senate majority leader when there's so much else he could be focused on? >> that's not a riddle. both are bad. whether or not what we would want, you know, the republican party as well as the democratic party right now needs is ideological leadership. because after a party loses, quite badly as the republicans did in 2008 and the democrats just did recently, there needs to be some cohesion, some coming together saying what is the vision for the future of the party. it wasn't really happening in 2008 because of the rise of the tea party and that divided the gop. they were not able to come together because donald trump is not an ideological leader, right? so in this case i actually -- donald trump who i don't agree with on most things and the way he comes across, he actually does have the upper hand here.
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why? two reasons. one, congress' approval rating is in the toilet effectively. we say that donald trump's approval rating is not high, it's very poor, but congress' is lower. also, trump's face is going to follow him no matter what, and they place all of the blame for the failure of the obamacare repeal as well as the tax agenda, everything, at congress' door. whether or not that's deserved is another story. >> yeah, i mean, you know, we talk about the approval ratings of congress, but individual congress people tend to have very high ratings in their district. so as an institution it's very problematic, but as individual senators and house members, you know, it's higher. so i don't think trump is as safe from the backlash against whatever his base feels that it should have been repealed or it shouldn't have been repealed, i don't think he's immune from the backlash. and i also think, you know, it still strikes me that he went out and took a victory lap in the rose garden with the house after their vote. >> mission accomplished. >> mission accomplished. but then that's not all, then he turned around and slapped those
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guys, and they're mostly guys, in the face by calling their bill mean to the senate. so he back stabbed the people who had his back, goes to the senate where he doesn't get anything. so he's got no political capital with these people. >> right. >> except that there's still hope they can pull out a tax reform. >> what's extraordinary is it doesn't need to be this way. i don't know if chuck schumer does fan fiction, but if he were writing fan fiction for the august recess, it would be this fight over this republican failure on obamacare between these two men. joan walsh, kirsten hagland, i hope you both come back on "the beat". >> thank you. >> also some news today on immigration and what president trump says his administration is doing. we have a fact check. later, from fire and fury to de-nuke the world, why so many messages on one policy? ♪ ♪
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we are not just going to show you clips of the president's somewhat unusual remarks today, we also have a fact check. the president made waves on immigration.
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he said there was progress in border crossings and his enforcement. and he also talked about his once beleaguered attorney general. >> how would you categorize your relationship currently with attorney general sessions. have you guys spoken about some of the differences you've had in the past? >> it's fine. he's working hard on the border. i'm very proud of what we've done on the border. we're down 78%, nobody thought in the old days other administrations if you were down 1% it was considered a big thing, we're down 78% at the border and nobody thought that was possible. >> not exactly. like a lot of things the president said today, the border comments were newsworthy, we're reporting on them, but they also left a lot of confusion. now, to be fair it is not exactly clear what he meant by 78%, if he was referring to border crossings or apprehensions. but i'm going to show you exactly what we know. just this week the justice department said they have new numbers on deportation and that removal orders are up nearly 30% under trump. at first glance that looked like
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trump delivering on a key campaign promise, but we've got the full story for you. and it hinges on that word orders. at "the beat" here we got the latest numbers from the government today and it shows something interesting in the results that actually separate from those orders actual deportations are down under donald trump right now. that's right. they are down compared to the same period last year under president obama, over 86,000 removals so far under trump compared to in this comparable period about 104,000 under obama, or a drop of nearly 17% by i.c.e., which does show there's a big difference between talking about something in the abstract and actually getting it done. with me now for this fact check, congressman luiz gutierrez, democrat of illinois and amaamar amaro nieto. congressman, when you look at this part of the story, are you happy that deportations are down, or do you dispute looking
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at it this way? >> yeah. i have to disagree just somewhat. look, my experiences that the deportation apparatus is working more vigorously and just in a meaner place today than it was at the end of the barack obama administration. look, ari, clearly there are fewer people, so when you look at deportations, you have interior deportations, that is someone living in the city of chicago, l.a., new york, which is apprehended at their work or at their job and deported back to their country of origin. but also included in deportation, especially under barack obama, were a huge percentage of his deportations were people caught at the border, which are called expedited removal. clearly there are fewer people attempting to cross that border, and therefore you have fewer deportation of that nature. >> so should i -- let me, congressman, let me go back to you on that. should i understand you to be saying then that you object to the fundamental approach of both administrations took?
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or you actually think the trump approach is meaner for the reasons you just stated? >> here i'm going to give you an example of why it's meaner and different and much more vicious. so we have francisca has six american children, american citizen husband, she has reported dutifully for 14 years. she does have an order of removal of deportation from the united states, but it's been held in aband for 14 years, why? because of prosecutorial discretion under bush and obama. didn't see the reason to deport her until congress can figure out a way to fix her situation. she has been told that on august 23rd she must leave the united states of america. and guess what? she might not be counted in the deportation numbers because they're not deporting her in a classical sense. they told her, bring an airplane ticket back to your country of origin, right, and pay for it yourself and leave. and like her we find thousands upon thousands of people.
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so the stories permeate throughout the countries of people who have for a decade reported, have a deportation order but now they're executing those deportation orders. >> let me bring in alma on the point you're raising. alma, the congressman pointing out the numbers give a snapshot and then there's a human side, there's individuals whose whole lives might be uprooted despite attempt to cooperate and they're not even caught as he explains in the numbers, your view. >> the mean part about it is also this is not smart enforcement. smart enforcement is making this country safe. if the president wants to appeal to his base, what the numbers should say is how many criminals, how many people that are harmful for the united states are being actually removed, physically removed from the united states. these numbers don't tell us there may be orders meaning the judge could render a decision, but the person is still in the united states, or they could be voluntary departures. these numbers don't quite add up. and also it's just bad enforcement because enforcement
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should be for making this country safe. and it's not safe when you're deporting mothers of united states citizens with noncriminal records with lengthy residence in the united states. why isn't the enforcement part of it dedicated to getting people that shouldn't be in this country. >> congressman, let's play some of your recent comments on this. >> sure. the dreamers are not criminals. for me the major criminal that exists in the united states of america is called donald trump. he lives at 1600 pennsylvania avenue at the white house. >> what are you driving at there? >> here's what i'm driving at. it's going to get worse, ari. ten attorney generals from across the country have said to the trump administration, you either rescind, revoke the executive order that has given life, that has given freedom, that has allowed 800,000 immigrants that are arrived here as children, commonly known as
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dreamer under daca, i think he's going to rescind it before september 5th. 800,000 in the city of chicago, those are people, ari, that registered with the government, went through a background check, paid their taxes, are on the books and he's going to give them a life of hopelessness and of despair after they've come out of the shadow. some of them in my city. and it may sound like an exaggeration but i know it's not because i've met them. they're doctors. they're teachers. they're in every sphere of our society. it is wrong. to me someone who at the white house says to the attorney general, says to the vice president and to his son-in-law, leave the room, and then tells the head of the fbi, i want you to stop an investigation into flynn, that to me is a criminal act of obstruction of justice, not those young, beautiful people who have come out and we all love them, i see them as my own children. >> congressman luis gutierrez, always passionate on these
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issues. i'm sorry we didn't have more time. there's a lot of breaking news. that seems to be the case. thank you both. >> thank you. >> did you ever think you would hear president trump thanking vladimir putin? he did that today. we have a special report on what's wrong with that ahead. ♪ ♪
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your headline. >> donald trump thanks vladimir putin. >> right. >> he thanked him for expelling 755 diplomats. >> it's incredible. >> and russian nationals who are employed by the u.s. embassy. >> let's play that. >> do you have any response to the russian president expelling 755 workers from our embassy? >> no, i want to thank him because we're trying to cut down on payroll. and as far as i'm concerned i'm very thankful that he let go of a large number of people because now we have a smaller payroll. >> elise, is this diplomatic masochism where russia does something a direct punishment of the u.s. and the leader of the u.s. says thank you? >> and given donald trump always wants to punch even when he necessarily hasn't been hit that hard by a slight, it's absolutely bizarre. i can't even start with how unpresidential it is for the president of the united states to not have the back of his
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diplomats who are stationed in a hostile country. >> who work there, who have been reportedly beaten up and attacked. >> harassed. russia is a tough place to serve. >> and sounds like putin, that's how putin reacts to sanctions. doesn't matter. >> i want to get you on the leak, shelby. take a listen to donald trump talking about the love. >> you have the leaks where people want to love me and they're all fighting for love. those are not very important but certainly we don't like them. those are little inter white house leaks, they're not very important but actually i'm somewhat honored by them. but the important leaks to me, and they're leaks that the attorney general's looking at very strongly, are the leaks coming out of intelligence. and we have to stop them for the security and the national security of our country. >> leaks because people want to love me. isn't that sweet? i was shocked by that because he's acknowledging that he himself is creating the dysfunction in the white house, all of the infighting, all of
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the reasons for leaks in the first place. i interviewed secretary leon panetta for "the wall street journal" last week and said the way to stop leaks is to build a team, build morale and move forward with your agenda and that comment does absolutely the opposite. >> it's remarkable. jay-z used to say love me or leave me alone, love is what we all seek. but he's calling unauthorized potential leaks he's criticized or okay -- >> some leaks, but not others. >> not all leaks created equal. thank you on a busy news day, thank you both. >> thanks. >> coming up, trump says he wants to de-nuke the world, but he also says he's going to get even tougher on north korea. and a special conversation of president trump and race going all the way back to "the apprentice." that's later.
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people that were questioning that statement, was it too tough, maybe it wasn't tough enough. if anything, that statement may not be tough enough.
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>> that's what the president said today before meeting with key advisors. and then after that meeting he said this. >> i would like to de-nuke the world, nuclear is our greatest threat worldwide. i would like russia and the united states and china and pakistan and many other countries that have nuclear weapons, get rid of them. >> suddenly a different tone after the president met with military advisors. but he is facing down this crisis with some major holes in his lineup. former diplomat ellen tauscher notes where is the trump under secretary of state for arms control under international security. no one has been nominated. unheard of in years, i should know. joining us is ellen tauscher. thank you for offering your expertise here. how important is it that the president has left that post unfilled right now? >> well, if you actually do want to de-nuke the world, then you
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would think that you would have the person that is the president's senior state department advisor on all things nuclear, frankly all things wmd. and this is one of the top jobs that's filled in the white house, by the white house very quickly after the president is sworn-in and the cabinet comes together. secretary of state picks someone to be the under secretary for arms control and international security, and that person is in charge of all of these things and works inside the white house in the situation room with the national security council and with the department of defense to make sure that we have all of the right treaties, that we understand the intelligence of what's going on in the world, that we're helping to take chemical weapons out of syria, that we're negotiating the new start treaty with the russians to take down nuclear weapons. so it's a key job. i was very honored to have it for the first three years of the obama administration. but, you know, you can't really take seriously when he says he
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wants to de-nuke the world if he doesn't even know he doesn't have an under secretary. >> well, ms. tauscher, we looked at this of these diplomatic posts, 131 of these diplomatic posts, 86 are still vacant. he hasn't even put anyone up. >> right. >> what do you want to say to the president about what he should do? >> well, i think that it's important that you actually match your rhetoric with your actions. and, you know, it's important to have somebody from the state department that is out negotiating on your behalf around the world. that's reading the intelligence and knows what the threats are. but also someone who is sitting in the white house in the situation room with national security council representing diplomacy and the state department when these issues come up. and when i was there i was honored to represent 600 people, some of the smartest people in the country, but really smart americans who understand treaty
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law, understand everything from the agreement that reagan and george schultz did in the '80s all the way forward. and, you know, understand how to have these relationships with everyone we are working with. >> former chief diplomat for arms control ellen tauscher, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> ahead, from "the apprentice" to the birtherism and the presidency, we have a look at donald trump's evolving relationship with black america. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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suggests that before trump got political, he did have a bond with some black americans as an entertainer. >> from across the country, i've chosen 16 of the very best candidates. all vying to become my apprentice. kevin, you're fired. stacy, you're tired. keisha, you're fired. >> during the height of the apprentice, there were internal corporate documents preference that's showed some black viewers had fairly warm views of trump. the industry use a metric called a g score and trump had a strong rating of 27 in 2010. heading into the election, he turned his media appearances and his public focus away from entertainment and toward this. >> you are not allowed to be a president if you're not born in this country. he may not have been born in
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this country. >> you have people searching in hawaii. >> absolutely. and they can't believe what they're finding. >> perhaps it will say hawaii. perhaps it is going to say kenya. >> many politicos were slow to grasp what trump was doing but in data unearthed by the journalist, it shows black viewers had a swift and strong reaction. his favorability rating with minority viewers began to collapse. trump's positive q score among african-americans which had reached a high of 27, fell to 21, then to 9, before bottoming out at 6 in 2014. if some had kept an over mind about his rhetoric, the birther attacks put it in the light. donald trump wanted a series of white versus black the
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contestants against each ooflt trump keeps a close eye on it. so this suggested he was taking presidential run far more seriously, far sooner than the establishment realized. and former winners of the apprentice, some began to reassess they were ever excited to get he hired by donald trump. >> so what was it like for you to hear those two beautiful words coming from the donald's mouth on live tell sfligs. >> i have to hear after hearing him say you're fired, to hear you're hired was a dream come true. >> when is your first day of boring? >> we'll talk about that in about two minutes. >> all these newly released details about trump's shift from entertaining one consumer base to rallying a different political base don't just put this in a new light. they raise key questions about how a man who ran asking black americans with a do they have to lose, can govern in a polarized
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climate that he helped polarize. >> with me to talk about all this, and trump's evolution strks man you just saw. the author of black faces in white places, and the president and ceo of the urban league and author, the former editor and chief of everybody any. thank you all for this discussion. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> randall, i want to start with you. you have already spoken out about this evolution what more did you learn about donald trump? >> what i learned was donald pivoted from being an entrepreneur and primarily a democrat, where it served him, when his agenda became wanting to win the presidency, he made a complete shift. we saw his stance on immigration. we saw his stance on muslims. we saw him begin talking about
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the law. and all of the apparently good will that he had garnered from the apprentice was completely jetsoned because it no longer served his agenda. when the agenda game presidency, the question became for donald, what will give me the path to get there? and clearly, issues that affect african-americans were at the bottom of the list. and issues that affected his base rose to the top. and we saw a new donald as a politician. >> do you think he tried to use you? >> i don't think he tried to use me. there are times he's tried reference me as if i'm a claim, a defense against racist claims. i've heard him say, how could he be a racist since he hired me? that's like saying you have a black friend so how could you be a racist?
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>> aimy? >> i'm shocked in 2010, 27% looked at him favorably. i'm from new york. donald trump is a long time racist. in the 1970s, they had on file a claim for rental racist policy when's he was encouraging rental agents to screen leases by races and to discourage black people from renting and to turn black people away. and then there was the central park five incident in 1989 in which five latino and black men were he accused of raping and murdering a white woman in central park. and even after -- and then when that happened, donald trump literally took out four full page ads in all the daily newspapers in new york basically asking for the death penalty for these young men. and even after they were exonerated, based on dna
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evidence and the confession of a convicted serial rapist, he never apologized. he even doubled down. so i'm baffled by the 27% number. >> speak to amy's point. trump allies and defenders say, it is not about race for him. it was about law and order on those issues. and if it is in his heart, it was about the base. >> the use of the term birther, law and order, these are all cold words that mean something very different to people. the birther movement was a despicable smear campaign. it was an effort to point out and remind people that quote/unquote, barack obama is an african-american. but to do it in this way that wasn't direct, but people saw through it.
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people understood it. not only african-americans but many saw it for what it was. that was an unfounded charge. it was he is the end of fake news. and that is the case. where we are today, it is important to recognize that those statements and the statements of division have given, if you will, some momentum to these policies like the effort to raid immigration raids, cutting civil rights offices at various departments, a bogus, if you will, voter fraud commission. and the policy that's enabled. i'll say this. there's a resistance and a pushback. and it has momentum to it. >> it was absolutely wrong and many of these policies are wrong and out of sync. >> briefly, do you think the
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president can rebuild the dialogue with black america unless or until he apologizes for the birtherism? >> i think it will take long for him to do it. he would have to send a signal. whether he sends it by an apology. it will take more than words. this is not just a stage. we look at not tonight words of a leader, we look at the actions of a leader. so shutting down the voter integrity/fraud commission, which is a bogus commission, not retreating on mass incarceration, changing policies to me would be far more important than any specific words or any stage craft of an apology. >> do you think voter turnout will be up? >> no.
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certainly. i think it will be very challenging for the african-american community to get enthusiastic about something that isn't enthusiastic about them. so i think that it is incumbent upon the democratic party to put forth the candidate that speaks directly to the african-american community. >> i have to pass to it chris matthews. thank you for that conversation. our show is over. "hardball" starts now. >> maybe wasn't tough enough. let's play "hardball." good evening. forget fire and fury, president trump ratcheted up his tough talk on north korea today with a series of threats aimed at


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