tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC August 18, 2017 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
returning to to breitbart news. >> we're both stunned that on a friday there is another shake up at the white house. >> a great conversation. steve bannon out at the white house, the controversial white house advisor leaving after what could be called a controversial week. an explosive ber view where he seemed to contradict many policy positions and then just a few days ago a very lukewarm endorsement from president trump where he referred to a mr. bannon several times and characterized him as a late comer to the campaign. >> mr. bannon came on very bad later than that. he is a good man, i think, he is not a racist. he gets unfair press in that
regard, but we'll see what happens with mr. bannon, but he is a good person and i think the press treats him very unfairly. >> so we start with our reporting on this, as i was watching this unfold and thinking about this, when there has been a shake up, that changes things internally inside that west wing, is it your sense that this is a high of relief. have so many things just happened in this white house in a compressed period of months that is just business as usual. >> i had a text from a top source that gajust gave me that one word. before we were able to fully confirm it and report it out, it
seemed like this was the right day for a variety of reasons. we have watching steve bannon as he has been -- his fate determined up and down, up and down. and he survived every previous reiteration. it felt very different today. you play the president's comments from a few days ago and that was a very different tone. also at a bit of a distance and not predicting a future where as when the president has been asked about hr mcmaster, he has been strong in his support. so you have john kelly, chief of staff, he was doing a real assessment of structure in the white house. and something that had been at odds for him was the notion that there was other power centers
with their own team that were not really serving the president. in the speak of washington, he was his own principal as opposed to being a staff member to the president. we have seen the president's family advisors, ivanka and jared. and we have seen a sizable shake up, all of this before we get to the events of the last several days where there is a different mood in the country. a different regulcognition of r deficits for the president. and you have bannon, who has been successful in different chapters of his life. and he has been somewhat attached to that sort of energy in the country even though he would try to say this is more about the nationalism than the
rise of china that his place in the white house no longer seemed to fit in the new order being brought about by john kelly. what is also notable to me in the statement from the press secretary, is that it indicates that john kelly, the chief of staff, and steve bannon, the outgoing chief strategist agree this would be his last day. this is a signal this is a john kelly move. the president has to sign off on such a thing, but this is a reordering of power inside the white house. there was voices in both parties loudly calling for his ouster, but there is a longer track record of that. so on a muggy, summer friday, when the president is probably in a skiff, a secure room at camp david for several hours now, that all of this is playing
out and he is probably without his phone. he will emerge from this, perhaps we will hear a statement from him like when reince priebus left the white house. perhaps we will hear from the president. if he chooses to speak with the pool, but it is a day long predicted and a day that has come to pass for a significant change in the trump white house. >> thank you, i know you will continue to report for us. >> an nbc political analyst. it is interesting what kelly says about that statement that they're trying to present it. is it also an attempt to distance the president from this decision in that there was a lot of concern among conservatives, among his right-wing base, that if steve ban non went that could be the straw that broke the c
camels back. there would be a lot of discontent among the conservatives that supported donald trump? >> john kelly was the one that delivered the news to john kelly, when the white house put out an official statement about this. i think she in charge. this was a john kelly move. he was predisposed to do it. steve bannon felt worried that ban n bannon was leaking information. and the book that came out asserting that steve bannon was the master mind. >> you also had a time, it may
have ultimately been a decision that two men came to at the same time. >> whether or not there was some thought, and if there was not consider about making the administration's life and the president's life more difficult, he might have been left it. kelly was said to have delivered the news. it is unclear and unknown, it's a wild card. he goes outside independently. steve bannon is now a household name. there is people that will be
upset that he left this white house. i talked to a bannon ally earlier this week. they said we had a sense this is coming and we look at this white house now and we see new york democrats and generals. that is not what we worked for in 2016. steve bannon is the leader of a coalition and it remains to be seen. >> let me bring in jennifer reuben. the author of the post, so your paper is quoting friends of steve bannon's assayi saying lo he can help the president's agenda from the outside, that things were not working on the inside. gabe sherman reports something very different that he will go back to breitbart and become a thorn in the side of gabe sherman. which way do you see it.
>> they try to occupy that space. and in the area that he is trying to drift back, the more antagonistic they will become. so i think they need to occupy that pace for business reasons. that is where fans are and that is how they made their name. she to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up if he wants to, he doesn't have a concrete agenda or ideology. as strong as mr. kelly has been. he doesn't bring content either. there is a big question mark about what is donald trump
without steve bannon? >> i want to bring in the director of progressive programming. nancy pelosi put out a statement and it reads steve bannon's firing is welcome news but it does hide that donald trump stands on bigoted beliefs. >> i think he showed this week that the problem is not steve ban non. they clearly come from his heart, and steve ban nonis certainly running bright bart. the platform for the alt-right. and that is a quote, and certainly donald trump panders to that constituency. but donald trump believes some of these things that are so upseatiu
upsetting to americans. >> it sounds like it is a good thing, but let's not presend the white house is a better place. >> donald trump is his own man. i think it is good that steve ban nonis out of the white house, but i don't believe he is the problem. that is certainly aligned, but without him he will still believe those things. >> bannon's departure marks the fourth senior aid to have left the white house in the last few weeks. as people have been telling folks from inside the white
house, saying this is inevitable, or is it a sign that john kelly, while he may not be able to get control with the president's words, he can't control every tweet, he is at least structurally taking charge of this white house. >> it might be a sign of that. it is an indication here that this is something that kelly wanted. maybe he was not aware that he was doing it. maybe kelly has to do this i think there are a couple x factors. we see people all of the time that move from inside his inner circle to the outside but they maintain proximity with him. >> if we're looking at just bannon, does it argue for the possibility that he doesn't go out and go to breitbart and become the enemy of the white
house and uses that influence and the power of the platform that is brietbart and is trying to get through the things that he cares about. >> i think there is a middle ground between he goes out and bashes donald trump or he doesn't do all of that. i think it could put him in a place. it could be that he goes back to a media platform and he becomes a voice of some of the people around donald trump. you go back 30 years to the early days. he was so popular with the conservative base. so what they would do is they would give their policy and he would say i'm just letting them be themselves. he would call them globalists or
whatever. he is attacking them, but not donald trump, he says i love you, i love what you're trying to do, and these guys are keeping grow doing it. >> and he was in a very nasty civil war. let me ask you and your take on th that. do you see steve ban nonsnon sai can -- if you look at the cia director, general mattis, joe dunford. this is the best national security team of my lifetime. he is a he puts together teams of his executives, his political
side was not working as well. i believe that he is in. >> wendy: president kamp david this weekend and at his side will be nick ayers who is a genius in republican circles. if you graph the ayers understanding of the congressional republican party under the john kelly ability to execute, command, and control, along with this nation nag security team, i think people that want the president to suck se -- succeed, and i'm one of them, they will be es tatic that it looks like it will be emerged -- >> i want to just advantage for you a second. she heard the same thing that i
have heard. >>. >> even when they are upset about what he tweets, says, and does, if they think he is not acting yes. he is surrounding himself with good people. you're saying what other people have said. he surrounded himself with his team. national security. he is the commander and chief. you can surround yourself with the biggest geniuses in the world. if you don't understand the way the world works, if you can't make the deep dive, to have the good decisions and right conversations, you can surround yourself with anybody and will it matter. my question to you is is too much being put on the backs of people like gary cohen, these generals for our national
securit security. >> you and i are both lake eerie people. and the weather can change in a moment up there we both have anecdotal evidence. >> it was not his finest hour. but they want -- >> why are they still with him? >> number one, they hate us, they hate everyone on television because they do not see themselves reflected on television, talking fairly about the president, like the big north korea win, for the first time in over 15 years, north korea backed down and scrolled itself away. it is a huge win.
he announced he will drop out of the deal soon. i think you have seen more with the fox con announcements. the amazon ihirings. i think the trump base is a little intimidating. against being pro trump is still there and resolute and they're welcoming what appears to be refurbishment, but also policy and intellectually. and they're cheering that john kelly is there and in charge and they will have a nick ayers ability to work. probably the happiest guy is mitch mcconnell. you need to be able to work with the west wing and the president.
>> the question is who will be there to work with. where will steve bannon go? what will he do? we also have eric wemple with his ion sights on all of this, back after this. then the chronic, widespread pain slowed me down. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. he also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. woman: for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression,
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>> if you think they're going to give you your country back without a fight, you're sadly mistaken. every day it will be a fight and that is what i'm proudest about donald trump. every day he says i committed this to the american people, i promised this when i ran, and i'm going to deliver on this. >> the power of being combative, the power of going to war, now he is gone from the white house. what is next? joining me by phone is president of endeavor relations. he worked with steve bannon, you know the guy. what will he be doing next? >> all right, we don't have a connection there, we lost the connection, let me go to eric
wemple at the "washington post." what are you hearing went went down here? >> he may be returning to his. mu perch at the top of breitbart. that was the position which he ran this website. it was very much big on the ideology that he favors. which is, you know nationalist, antifree trade, antiglobalist. a hard line on immigration. and those are the positions that he had a mind held with president trump on. and as pointed out in the book "devils bargain." they were casting about for a candidate that agreed with him and he found one in trump. i think his departure from the white house detainee mean much
for the trump agenda. i think he will continue to believe the things he believes. trump may be lacking a person on staff that really goads him into more extreme positions. >> kurt is back on the phone now, sorry we lost you, what do you think is next for steve bannon? >> exactly what he set out to do, which is destroy the establishment. take down all of the pillars of political correctness. continue his assault against the media. i expect them to go full force. you know, he is a very bombastic and driven in person, and in many ways i feel like living the leaving the white house will be different for him. working in the white house, answers to anybody, steve is not
meant to work for anyone. and i think it was a handicap to him, now he will be able to operate freely. but the speaking out and agenda, that's who we will see more of now. >> is it the president and the people you naked like the paul ryans? and just how powerful of an enemy have they created? >> you know, i don't know if it is a full tilt negative, the west wing globalists as he came to recognize them. gary cohen. they fix sate on these personalities, and they fix sate on those personalities.
he would be steering away from the agenda that we elected them on and i think you will see that kind of targeted approach in the beginning. >> thank you for that. i want to bring back in eric wemple. peter king, the new york congressman said he should go, roger stone said he should go. anthony scaramucci, not that he has any france at the white house, he also was a voice, but the new york times reported that there was a push by the head of fox, rupert murdoch. what do you know about his
influence in the ousting of steve ban non. i think it may have as much to do with john kelly and his ascension to the chief of staff roll as anything else. you know it is interesting you bring up murdoch, now bannon is outside of the white house, but as kirk or anyone would tell you donald trump has a cell phone he can continue talking to steve bannon. donald trump is terribly undisciplined. he will continue to go around the efforts of his aides to funnel information to him. steve bannon could be as much of a influence on the outside as he is on the inside. at the same time directing the machinery of breitbart against these sort of mainstream republican politician that's are
really where his heart lies. this could be the best of both words for steve bannon as far as his agenda is concerned. >> it will be fascinating to watch how the media agenda on the right does settle in. you have someone that had a back and forth relationship with this president but you have a son who in the last 24 hours released a critical statement. gave a million dollar donation, had harsh words about the president of the united states. we heard some of the fox anchors in the aftermath being highly critical. how does the media landscape look to you and where does that go in terms of what we have already seen at least some movement of his base away from the strong approval of donald trump? >> i think on the right, if you look at the conservative media
landscape, you're reintroducing him as a media kingpin on the right. maybe that goes back to breitbart or launching something else. there is a lot of thought right knew it will end up with steve bannon running a immediate why outlet. what you will see on display is two very differently powerful strings of conservatism. the conservatism that rupert murdoch has advocated is the conservatism of free trade. of immigration reform. it is the conservatism of globalism. then you steve bannon saying the trade deals are bad. a lot of republican friendly outlets have been trying to figure out how to navigate it and you see that with fox.
the wall street editorial page, you still see the old school murdomu murdoch globalism. he is taking a very strong position and i think we're looking to see if she going to war with trump. i think he is not going after trump, but she going after the globalists in the administration, and the evidence that we have is that donald trump doesn't much mind when his people are sniping at each other in the media. as long as it is loyalty to him. >> you also have a situation where there is not discontent, but the lack of a settled feeling. in the conservative media
landscape. you have a james murdoch giving a million dollars to the antidefamation league. and speaking firmly about it. congressman king is welcoming in. >> you don't have the steve bannon in the white house, but this is not like a week like any other week. what happened on tuesday i think is changing the conversation around this white house, this president, and you had a president staid there on tuesday and say there was been there and there was mine people standing along the nazis. i have so many people that watched that on tuesday and it
changed their view on the president. they didn't think he really believed some of these things. i think this week, searchly the drama about who will be around the president, staffing him in the white house, is interesting in this moment. i think beyond this, i think the conversation has become serious and larger than who was staffing the president. >> what's the headline on your next column? >> doesm bannon go to war with trump? they had a srelationship that oe of them could not have gotten to the white house without the other. if he attacks all of the preserved opponents, will he rip apart the republican party.
he will go out there and wage war, even if the president doesn't. against dean heller, and paul ryan as they go to 2018. he will make the president's life miserable at the same time he is whispering in trump's ear saying keep at it. that is a good issue for you. i think you're seeing the unwinding of the entire pop list movement that doesn't have a end point other than a disaster. it has an end point on what we have seen this tuesday in charlottesville. there is no there there in terms of the pop list agenda. the rest of it is just a hodgepodge of zenophobia, antii'm grant, but it is really about the culture wars and about race. donald trump has always been
about that. he was from his days in new york, and he still is. this is what he truly believes in his heart. he doesn't care what his positions are. he wants to be in touch with the vibe that he tapped into which is white resentment. that will continue i think whether bannon is out there or not. i disagree with hew hewitt when he says congress will be applauding, but no. they will have part of the original base that is now not going to turn out for them in november of 2018. not going to support them. they're going to look at a semidisaster. it will not rid them of this nox
i don't really have a comment on what mr. bannon's remarks were in that particular interview. i think we have been quite clear what the policy and posture toward north korea is. >> the secretary of state talking about that wide ranging and shocking interview that steve bannon gave. he said he didn't realize he was on the record. joining me now by phone, talking about the developments and steve ban nonbeing gone, so receistev went on to the american prospect website. what follows is the article that likely pushed steve ban non, the architect of his white nationalist messaging out of the white house door. is that what happened here?
>> it is certainly important. i think his continued service on the white house was not just unpaletteble and impossible for general kelly. how can he have that claim when the senior advisor to the president of the united states is picking up the phone, talking to magazines, reversing american policy on north korea. under mines the secretary of state, and responsible for running, i think, which is widely held knowledge a smear campaign against the national security advisor. >> we heard two looks at this. one is that it was the president who really could not stand the self grandisement. and that they didn't like the
chaos being caused. needed to stop the fighting, and you can add on to that interview that he gave, is there anything here to you, steve, that is a sign that the president somewhere here recognizes that he needs a reset here. >>. >> there is none until it addresses the false moral equivalency between the nazi movement and the people there peacefully protesting. here is what steve bannon represents. this is as close as we have been. there is a trump party, a republican party, and a democratic party. the republican party tried to fuse with the democratic party. all of that has fallen apart.
we increasingly have the leaders that panicked into silence. like bob corker showing moral courage, coming out, talking about his lack of stability. but at any rate, there is fusion between trumpism, the bright bart wing, and the republican party. all of the winks and nods to the racist elements that took place in this disgusting campaign is all out in the open in and out. the republican party cannot survive fused to a nationalist party that counts it's fellow travelers as members of the neo nazi unit and the kkk there are no good cancer cells. no good neo nazis. the republican leaders have a
moral obligation to address the false equivalents. they bear witness to the magnitude of the crimes. so beyond the span of the li lifetimes of those that survived that they tried to understand the mag any due of the human suffering. >> to that though, steve, this doesn't seem, to me, does it change the equation at all? >> no, no. >> it was the president that came out that said finally, and then did that off the cuff press conference when he was not supposed to be answering questions at all and said what he said. >> this opens a new act in politics. it is a life and death struggle
now for the republican party. steve bannon will go to breitbart, and he will be the chief intellectual and prop beg propgandist. but it is a world view pilled if con fear sis, dark forces working together. the globalist, the insinuations, and now what we know is with the legitimateization of these groups by the president's moral equivalen equivalents, their inspired, they feel they have been mainstreamed and put into the american political debate as a party with legitimate claims. now when they march increasingly, they march with the view that they have been
sanctified by the president of the united states if is an extraordinary moment in american politics and now that alliance, that doing whistle that san francisco -- frankly in the campaign was a blow foreihorn. when he takes over and seeks to dominate is and silence members into submission. but to a titanic political battle has arrived in america around a fundamental question of american ideals. and whether you're a liberal democrat or conservative republican, you should find common pause standing on the side of american ideals versus the ideals of white supremacists, hate groups, and what we found to be the profound
moral failure. and the false moral equivalency on it's intentions. >> steve schmidt, thank you as always. we will talk now about what happens at the white house and who will take his place. we'll be right back. so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks. for me... it's aleve. finding the best hotel price is whoooo.
spicer prieks scaramucci now steve bannon gone from the white house. four top advisers to the president gone in five weeks. let's go back to hugh hewitt. what happens now inside that white house? does somebody come in in that position? how does it sort of reorder how things work? >> i think the president looks to his cabinet very, very quickly. through the agency general kelly organizing the paper flow. but you've got some extraordinarily talented people in scott pugh wit at the eps and justice is extremely well talented. and you ask for policy proposals to be staffed appropriately. let gary cohn help put together the tax package. you turn to done mcgahn who is the very talented white house counsel. let's hurry up on the judges. and then you go to mitch
mcconnell and paul ryan and have a summit with maybe mike pence and niek airs helping to bring it all together and say let's organize our fall so that we can roll out sws we did the 14 congressional review act. so i'm very optimistic of a reset of what a coalition goth -- and i've been calling it a coalition government for months. i've used the analogy before as well. there is the party of president trump which includes a lot of people who are never republicans before. in my home county president obama won 60%. donald trump won 55%. they all swichld over to president trump. i think the party of trump and the party of congressional republicans have frayed in the past month. i think that can be put back together again, and i mentioned for the second time watch in this case airs and mike pence. i think they're going to be the glue that the president is going to ask to help him repair. and the president has always campaigned on the same four or five things. 355 ship navy. that means the repeal of the
budget control acted. he campaigned on a border fence. he's going to get that or the government is going to shut down. and on a big tax cut. and he's going to get that. so there's a potential that september could be very good for the coalition government for both halves of it. >> really quickly, and i've only got 15 seconds for you both. do you think, and let's put this in context. we had two -- three terror attacks in two different countries or potentially one in finland. the president is talking about the longest war right now in american history, the kkk and white supremacists have been walking on the streets of america. more demonstrations planned this weekend. ask this be a reset? >> i think with donald trump the idea of a reset in any traditional sense is just impossible. there are these massive eruptions and things just seem to settle down until the next eruption. >> i don't think so 6789 as long as donald trump is president we're going to see more of what we saw on tuesday. >> thanks to all of you. when we come back, some new information about the american
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we are back with the breaking news. the tragic news that the american who was killed was indeed the husband of a 40-year-old california schoolteacher. there is the picture of them. jared tucker, heidi noon easy. she had done an interview saying that they were there in spain on their first anniversary. they were having a wonderful time having drinks. she went to look at some
jewelry. he said he needed to go to the bathroom, and that was the last time she saw him. here is what she told reporters in the aftermath of that horrible accident in spain. accident, terror attack. >> i just ended up further and further away without my husband, and i haven't seen him or heard from him since. >> and our sympathize obviously go out to the family, the couple from walnut creek, california. let me bring in steve clem mons. we haven't had a chance in the breaking news that has been about obviously the exit of steve bannon to talk about what's been going on in spain. and let me get your take on how we should all be looking at this and what you think the conversation is, because the president right now, although the topic is largely going to be about afghanistan, the president is talking also about isis and what's going on in the world right now.
what does this all mean as we have yet another attack with a van on european soil. >> thanks, chris. right now we're responding to people and the horror of their deaths and what we've seen unfold. and it's a story we've seen many times. we talk a lot about going after terrorists, a lot about tightening up intelligence. one thing we're not tightening enough is terrorists are performers. actually likes what they're seeing happen. they see this horror that we see as somehow justice department by some grievance they have. we're not bringing those audiences back to our side yet. just going out to kill terrorists is part of the equation. when president trump met the sawed i didn't see they promised to basically spend a lot more on kaurnt terror messaging. i'm not seeing it. >> steve, thank you very much. sorry our time was cut so short.
steve clem mons coming to washington for us. that's going to do it for me. i'm chris jansing. ali velshi is here on yet another busy friday. >> unbelievable. we're following today's big breaking news. nbc news confirming that white house chief strategist is leaving the trump administration. bannon's departure ends an often chaotic tenure in the white house in which he clashed with other top aids. and the former head of breitbart news is known for stressing nationalist themes that divided many within the administration. i'm going to be talking in a moment to breitbart senior editor at large. he's standing by for our conversation which will happen in just a moment. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders released a statement a short time ago that reads white house steve of staff john kelly and steve bannon have mutually agreed today would be steve ace last day. bannon is