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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  August 22, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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a eventful evening inside and outside the convention center there. that is our broadcast for this eventful tuesday night. thank you so much for being here with us and good night from nbc news headquarters in new york. big show tonight the mayor of phoenix arizona is here with us live in just a few minutes president trump is in phoenix arizona night despite requests from local authorities, including the mayor, that he pleas not do this trip -- the mayor is a democrat but some of the news breaking tonight about the conflict over the president's arizona rally really is not democratic versus republican politics, it's very much just republican politics. republican politics sort of pushed to the max, to the point
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where the former chief of staff to the top republican of the senate, mitch mcconnell, his former chief of staff is issuing threats to president trump that if he doesn't back off to do what he's doing to attack other republicans, he may find himself facing impeachment in the senate sooner rather than later. unnamed republican sources are making serious allegations to the new york times tonight that beyond the allegations already being investigated, that the president may have pressured the fbi to drop its russian investigation, beyond its existing investigation into whether or not the president obstructed justice when he fired the fbi director to try to stop the russia investigation, unnamed republican sources are telling "the new york times" tonight that the president may also have tried to block the investigation into the russia matt are that's being conducted in the united states senate by the investigating committees in
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the united states senate. in fact, these allegations tonight from these republican sources speaking to the new york times are that those efforts by the president to potentially obstruct those inquiries into that part of the russia matters, those efforts by the president may be continuing tonight as we speak. so, this is actually, i think, potentially very serious turn in the ongoing investigations into this president, into the russia scandals that continue to swirl around this presidency. now, in order to understand what's going on here, though, the details of this, i'm just going to lay out the story as "the new york times" tells its tonight. the details of this are going to sound like a politic story. but if you weighed through the beltway politics, looks like what it may be a new problem for the white house in terms of obstruction of justice personally. here's the story. the president tonight has gone
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to phoenix arizona. it has a democratic mayor. the state also has a republican governor and two republican senators. it is not a accident tonight that neither the republican governor of arizona nor the two republican senators from arizona are going to be attending to event with the president. that is because those two republican senators from arizona at least, they appear to drive this president crazy. even before arizona senator john mccain blocked the last republican effort to repeal kaim in the senate, the president's hatred and disdain for senator john mccain had brought trump close to political disaster, even targeting mccain's war record. the junior senator from arizona is jeff flake, who's been more confrontational than almost any -- there's a look he's
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highly critical of himself and the republican party to allow trump to become the parties' nominee. since then trump has gone repeatedly after flake, giving him the school yard name jeff flake flake jeff flake, he's been hyping a republican senator challenger in arizona who ran against john mccain and who wants to run against jeff flake in the next cycle. she lost quite badly to john mccain last year. it's hard to tell whether she poses a threat to jeff flake next we're year, but she's expected to be at the rally. that comes after trump has spent days hyping up her candidatesy, i know that sounds like electoral politics, that is the immediate political context, the immediate political background
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of what's going on in this story. mitch mcconnell is the top republican in the senate. whatever you think of him as a plogs, leader, republican, he does take seriously his own responsibility in the senate to help other republican senators keep their seats, to help sitting republican senators fight off republican primary challengers, to win their general elections against democratic candidates, to fender off scandals that might unseat them. they very close, mitch mcconnell needs to keep 50 other republicans in the senate so he keeps his job running the senate, but other than the math, he just goes to bat for any sitting republican senator to keep them in their jobs. now this republican president has moved on from insulting just one republican senator in arizona, to unseat the other republican senator in arizona, heading into the rally tonight
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we knew mitch mcconnell was upset with the president's behavior. we knew he was trying to undercut the impact of what the president was doing. we knew that mitch mcconnell was going to try to blunt the effect of trump's trip to arizona by hosting his own mcconnell high dollar fundraiser for jeff flake this week. we learned a pack associated with mitch mcconnell ran ads against that trump endorsed candidate. and i know how this sounds. if you're nrd in partisan politics and electoral politics and the balance of power in the senate, those are all interesting details, this is a interesting story, this is a interesting tale of inter trau party fighting to follow, but you only have to follow it that far before it jumps to a place that is way beyond politics. tonight in the new york times,
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this little politics store moved from interesting to. there's the impiechment flet. a man biller piper is quoted by name tonight in the new york times. he's a lobbyist. he was chief of staff to senator mcconnell. and pilly piper throws this threat in the president's -- it's important that he allows himself to be quoted by name is making it. here's what he said, the quickest way for trump to get impeached is for him to knock off jeff flake and dean heller and be faced with a democrat led senate. that would be the place where you give bluster -- with this president a bluster citing becomes a fairly credible threat of impeachment for the president. and republicans apparently are
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not afraid to say it, including republicans very, very close to the top republican in the senate who controls what happens in the senate, mitch mcconnell. so, there's that, the impeachment threat. but here's the worst part from the white house's perspective. apparently before trump and mcconnell stopped speaking to each other all together, which is where they're at now, apparently the last time they spoke, they had what is described in the times tonight as a profane shouting match on the telephone. this reportedly happened on august 9th, president trump apparently placed the call from one of his golf courses and spoke with senator mcconnell directly. citing republicans quote briefed on the conversation, at "the new york times" tonight report that there were two subjects that trump and mcconnell screamed and swore at each other about on that call on august 9th. number one was who's responsible
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for republicans failing to repeal kaim. got it. knew that he were fighting about that already. but the other subject they apparently screamed and swore at each other about was something very different. i'll just goat to you directly from the times. during the call, which trump initiated on august 9th from his new jersey golf club, he accused senator mcconnell of -- he was even more and i mated about what he intimated was the senate leaders refusal to protect trump from investigations of russian interference in the 2016 election. again, that's according to republicans briefed on the conversation. so, in a call that is described as devolume ving into a profane shouting match, the president is reportedly bee rating and screaming at and swearing at the majority leader in the senate because the senator hasn't protected him from the russia investigations that are being
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cared out under his purview by various committees in the senate. again, this is according to multiple republican sources who were briefed on the that reported conversation between trump and mcconnell on august 9th. the reason that is potentially very important, the reason that's potentially a big for the white house here is because the criminal concept of obstruction of justice applies not only to law enforcement, fbi investigations, it also applies to efforts to influence, obstruct or impede the cue and proper exercise of the inquiry or investigation in either house and congress or a committee of house and congress if that sounds wordy and arcane it's because in reading that, i am quoting the language of the criminal statute auto that defines obstruction of justice
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and makes clear that that applies to efforts to impede or pervert or pressure investigations not just by cops and prosecutors or the fbi, but efforts to impede or pervert or obstruct congressional investigations. we're going to have expert advice on that in just a moment. but remember how we got the special counsel investigations. where the bob mueller investigation came from was not just allegations about russian interference in the last election, it was not just trump administration being caught lying about -- the reason we got the bob mueller special counsel investigation was because the president fired the director of fbi and that firing followed credible alleges that the fbi director was fired after he refused to aseed to pressure from the president that the fbi should drop the russia
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investigation. if the president has been and is now pressuring the leader of senate to drop the russia investigations that are under his purview in the senate, then that's not just personality driven political gossip, that's a big deal. i mean, particularly if he's been pressuring the senate leader to protect him from his russia investigations and the mcconnell has not been doing that to the president's satisfaction and now he's politically punishing mcconnell. and this is not secret cloak and dagger stuff. if this august 9th phone call reported in the new york time, if this happened the way these republican forces say happened, if he was bee rating mitch mconly over mcconnell not protecting him from the senate russia investigations, if that's true true, look what happened since that call happened. since august 9th, the president
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has been using his twitter feed to -- he gave a press availability in new jersey where he suggested senate mcconnell should resign as the leader of the republicans in the senate. now tonight the president is in arizona trying to inflict maximum political pain on senate republicans in direct political conflict with senator mitch mcconnell. it's one thing if that's just politics, it's interesting but it's politics. if instead this is a president politically punishing mcconnell for him reviewsing a aseed to the russia demands, this will open a investigation into potential -- the russia investigations having in the investigative committees in the senate, those investigations, as far as we can tell, are full
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steam ahead, today the senate judiciary committee took many hours of testimony from the head of the political research group behind the infamous dossier of russian dirt on donald trump. it was handed over to the fbi last year, who published by buzz feed in january, the source of a lot of controversy. glen simpson, he was reportedly interviewed by senate judiciary staff today for ten hours. there's one report tonight that he handed over systems 40,000 documents to the committee. again, fusion gps, his outfit is the group that ultimately commissioned that dossier, and he just handed over 40,000 documents. the leader of that committee is republican senator chuck grassley. and we've talked about here on the show the fact senator grassley in the past has made a effort to try to undermine the
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does way by attacking it's or engines and fusion gps. so far the efforts have been to no effect. but today nbc news reports that the man who created the dossier, not the one who commissioned it, but the former mi-6 officer in britain who collected the evidence, wrote up the dossier in the first place, hired by fusion gps to create the dossier, not only has talked to the fbi in detail about the dossier and how he put it together, according to abs news today, christopher steele has given the fbi specific information about the identity of his sources that he used to put the dossier together. now, if that is abc news report is true, that would allow the fbi to retrace christopher steele's steps to either verify or disprove what is in that
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incredibly inflammatory does dwra. you'll remember the key claim was that the trump campaign not only knowingly clued wlt russian attack on the eelection, but it was the end product of a year's long relationship that involved the politically useful obtaining of information, that included extensive illicit financial ties between trump, trump businesses and russian entities including some that are close to vladimir putin. that's what's in the dossier, right? if the firm that paid for that investigation just handed over 40,000 pages worth of documents, and the founder of that firm just gave 10 hours of testimony, and if the intelligence agent who collected that information has confided information about his sources to the fbi for their own investigation of those matters, well, then, you could
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see where the pressure might be boiling up from in terms of the white house really wanting to shut down these investigations. and looking ahead in terms of next steps, christopher steele himself the former mi-6 agent, he is being eagerly sought by the investigative committees in the congress as a potential witness for their inquiries. we do not know if that would ever happen. that would be basically a truck load of political dynamite for this country if he testified and if his story held up. so, i mean, obviously there are high stakes here already. if this new york times reporting and this abc news reporting tonight bears out, the stakes have gotten that much higher. i want to put one last point on it. we just got some exclusive new national polling from ppp, public policy polling, it's coming out tomorrow. they're giving it to us tonight exclusive. this is national survey results
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fact organize in democrats and independents and republicans who, of course, remain very loyal to donald trump. here are these national top line results. do you think that the russia story is fake news or not? answer from the american people, no, america does not think the russia story is fake news. question 21, do you think that members of donald trump's campaign team worked in association with russia to help trump win the election for presidentor not? answer from the american public, yes, we think members of donald trump's campaign team worked in association with russia to help trump win the election for president. and here's the crucial follow-up credit, question 22, if evidence comes out that proofs conclusively that mubs of donald trump's campaign team worked in association with russia to help trump win the election for president, do you think trump should continue to serve as president or do you think he should resign?
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answer from the american people, by a 20 point margin, yeah, in that case trump should resign. so says a clear majority of american public. this is new national polling from public policy polling, they gave us a advance look at some of these numbers tonight. in terms of methodology of this polling, it was conducted through yesterday, so it doesn't include any public reaction to whatever the president's going to say tonight in arizona, doesn't involve row action to the new reporting in new york times that he may have another obstruction of justice line of inquiry to worry about now. this time what's been reported as a congressional -- we're going to have expert advice on that potential new inquiry coming up, plus the phoenix mayor joining us live. we have a lot to get to. i love you, couch.
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okay. we're following several breaking stories here tonight, including the forthcoming rally in phoenix that the president is holding there tonight despite requests from local officials that he not do it. the mayor of phoenix is going to join us in a moment. we're also following breaking news on another front related to the dossier of alleged russian dirt on donald trump. the political research group behind the dossier is fusion gps. the head of the firm is glen simpson, a former investigative reporter for "the wall street journal." his legal team has just released a very interesting statement tonight. this has just come out tonight and it's about the head of that firm, glen simpson, spending ten hours toads meeting behind
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closed doors with investigators from the judiciary committee in in the statement tonight, following this marathon testimony, fusion gps is describing the dossier about trump as a quote rode map for investigation investigation. they also say that they stand by their work. they stand by that dossier and what's in it. and then look at this. look at how they end their statement. they're basically requesting that the committee release the transcript of the ten hours of interviewing that glen sat for today. the committee has a transcript of the interview, the committee has the right to disclose the transcript if it wish to do so. which i think is fusion gps basically inviting the judiciary committee to make the content of the ten-hour interview vailable
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and that statement and very provocative pros text has come on the heels of the new york times rarting that the president acoring to republican sources may have pressured the top republican in the senate to protect him from the russia investigations happening in congress happening in congress. if that report is true, would that potentially open another line of inquiry into the president potentially having tried to obstruct justice on the russia investigation. joining us now is barbara mcquade, a former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. barbara, thank you for being with us tonight. appreciate you being here on short notice. >> my pleasure. >> i feel like i've come to learn in recent months about what obstruction of justice might mean, what it means in criminal terms in terms of pervert or pressure a fbi inquiry. does the same criminal frime work apply to somebody trying to block a investigation by congress
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>> yes, there's a different statute but a similar one in the criminal code that makes it a crime to corruptly or by threats obstruct, impede or interfere with an investigation bay congress or any committee of congress. >> does the law spell that out? how far does that statute go in spelling out what kind of things would be considered obstruction? >> well, it has the same kind of language. it parallels the same statute that covers investigations by agencies or the fbi. but the key words there really are corruptly or threaten. if this news report is true, it sounds like you would have the elements of an offense, certainly the facts always matter. but one thing that's really important in stark contrast to what we saw a couple of weeks ago when president trump was threatening members of the senate like lisa murkowski in the legislative arena saying i'm going to withhold federal funds unless you vote for health care. that's okay. that's political hard ball. but when you get into congress's
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investigative powers and you seek to obstruct those, that is a crime. >> is that something that because it's a crime or is that something the department of jft or fbi would look into. the fbi and department of justice looks into it. i think robert mueller who has the authority to look between ties between russia and the trump campaign and matters that may rise out of it, including obstruction of justice. i think robert mueller and his team would be interested in learning the facts of this incident, it would be part of any indictment that goes to congress. in these cases it can bolster another -- if you have a effort to indim tate with james comey and another count that has the same kind of theme against senator mcconnell here, those
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two counts can really become self bolstering of each other. it demonstrates a common scheme or plan that helps bolster both of those counts. if mcconnell is the key witness, if it happened in a phone call, what's described in the new york times today there were other republicans briefed on the call, but if he were alone with the president on the call he would be the key witness here, could robert mueller compel him to testimony, is there anything about his status as majority leader that prevents him protect him from being compels i think he would first obtain information through a interview with senator mcconnell in hopes that he can get it that way, only if he was not able to provide that voluntarily would he have to go to that pressure of compelling him. there's nothing that would correct him from being compelled undered law.
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>> former u.s. attorney in michigan thank you for your time and always for your incredible clarity. all right. mayor of phoenix joins us live in a moment. stay with us. and hey, unmanaged depression, don't get too comfortable. we're talking to you, cost inefficiencies and data without insights. and fragmented care- stop getting in the way of patient recovery and pay attention. every single one of you is on our list. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done.
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it was 105 degrees today in fieks arizona, that means today is a day that ends in y it was 105 degrees today in outdoor exertion was greater than usual in downtown phoenix
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thanks to protests for and against the president. the combination of the heat, the controversy over the president's recent remarks on race, the vitriolic immigrant speech he gave the last time he was in phoenix, the president has abandoned the idea of using tonight's appearance to grant a pardon to the recently convicted sheriff of maricopa county. all of these things have combined to create real worries about what was going to happen at this rally, potential clashes between trump supporters and trump protesters. police have been trying to keep the two sides separate. the democratic mayor has been making the case in the recent days that the president shouldn't do this, shouldn't take it out on phoenix if he has a continuing desire to stoke racial tensions after his people at the white supremacist march last week.
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joining us now from phoenix is the mayor greg stanton who asked the president to pose tone the trip. thank you for making time to be here tonight >> so far things have gone very >> so far things have gone very smoothly in the city of phoenix. there have been huge crowds, people expressing their first amendment rights outside of the convention center, a large number of people entering the convention center to hear mr. trump's speech. i was disheartened when the press secretary said there would be no pardon for sheriff joe. we're still going to pay close attention. but i think that that announcement that there was no pardon for sheriff joe and all of his civil rights violations did make us feel better that things were going to go better here in phoenix tonight. >> that's great news about the peaceful nature to have protests and the fact that there hasn't been violence that people were so worried about tonight. obviously that's why a lot of people have their eyes on
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phoenix tonight is partly because of those worries. i have to ask you about the photos we've seen today of folks with guns, trump supporters with guns and protesters open carrying tonight. arizona is an open carry state. does the presence of so many visible guns at tonight's protests increase your concern? >> yes, it does. and i wish that people who were coming downtown to express their first amendment rights either opposing the president and his policies and unfortunately his failure of moral leadership after charlottesville just a few days ago or those who support the president would leave their weapons at home. they don't need to try to antagonize others in the audience by bringing those very large weapons. it's unfortunate but arizona is an open carry state and there have been no arrests for any weapons violations in phoenix tonight. >> and mr. mayor, you were quite outspoken ahead of that that you did not want the president to come to phoenix and do this
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rally, you were worry about about his motivations coming there. did the president reach out to you, did the white house ever contact you to address your concerns or to find out more about whether there was a way they could do this that would be less antagonistic? did you ever have any contact with them? >> i put out a public statements strongly makes the case that this is not the time for the campaign rally. the phoenix convention center was rented by the trump for president campaign. such a short time after the tragedy in charlottesville, the tragic murder of a young lady at the potential pardon of sheriff joe. shortly after a spokesperson said they were not going to heed any advice and move forward with the campaign rally in phoenix. >> and they never called you about it and you didn't peek to the president.
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>> i didn't have the opportunity to speak to president trump. i didn't reasonably expect that he would listen to me. but i think the point had to be made. i think i had to make the point i spoke for most phoenix iance, after the president failed to miserably to provide leadership in the country after the tragedy in charlottesville that such a short time there after to do a campaign rally in phoenix, it wasn't right. i stand by my statement it should have been postponed. we don't say don't ever do it. but this wasn't the right time in phoenix. >> phoenix fair greg stanton. thank you for joining us. let us know if you hear from the president any time soon. >> we will. these birds once affected by oil
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at a price that'll make you feel like you've gotten away with something. the 2018 gla. lease the gla250 for $359 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. in april reuters had a fascinating report about a billionaire investor you might have heard of, karl icahn. reuters reported that he did something that nobody else had done before in a big way in the market. he started betting for some reason that the price of a specific kind of regulatory instrument was going to drop. it was going to get cheaper. some oil refineries have to buy a thing called a biofuel credit. they buy these credits and karl icahn started betting as a refinery owner himself, he started betting that the price of those credits was going to drop.
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and that was weird. nobody had ever really shorted those things before in the market. nobody had ever made a big multimillion dollar bet that the price of the credits was going drop. but karl icon did. why did he do that? well, turns out that karl icahn was going to be named donald trump's special adviser on regulatory reform. and after he got that adviser gig, he set about advising the president to do things that would drop the price of those credits. so then he could collect on that otherwise mysterious a typical bet that he made that those credit would get cheaper. it sounds complicated if you don't follow short selling and market stuff like this all of the time. but it's a simple and jaw dropping thing. billionaire bets on the market that a thing will happen, billionaire then joins trump administration to ensure that that thing will in fact happen.
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billionaire collects. that's it. congratulations. your country is now a former soviet corruptstan and the ruling family would like to see you right now. this is textbook banana republic corruption. people taking government jobs that then they use to make themselves rich in the private sector. the thank's actually most unnerving about the karl icahn story is how in the hope it's been happening. reuters made this chapter showing how the credits dropped. trump named and epa director who shares carl icahn's views and the white house announced that he will have an official role as an adviser and the credits dropped a little more and then a new biofuels regulation plan conceived by karl icahn was
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delivered to the white house and the price of those credits dropped more. every time that happened, that bet that he made was getting better and better. if you made that bet a few months back that the value of the credits would drop, yeah, you made a prettily good bet but it looks like your actions as part of the trump administration are what made that bet turn out so well for you. this is just textbook. in the months after trump's election the stock price of karl icahn's company which directly benefitted from the dropping price of the credits, the stock price of his refinery company nearly doubled. that's hundreds of millions of dollars for karl icahn. but now karl icahn is out, he resigned as regulatory adviser of the president last week, resigned moments before the new yorker published this bombshell piece detailing, and i mean
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detailing just exactly how karl icahn used his position in the trump administration to make himself hundreds of millions of dollars. experts interviewed by the new yorker strongly suggesting that he may have legal concerns that follow him home from that job that he just quit. the chief execer officer of george w. bush saying he's walking into possible criminal charges. quote, he cited a federal statute that makes it illegal for executive branch employees to work on me matter in which they may have a direct financial interest. the president and the vice president are exempted from that statute unpaid white house advisers like karl icahn are not exempted from it. quote, if i were carl icahn's private lawyer, i would tell him he should not have accepted that adviser title. consider that advice taken retro
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actively. this is the defense. this sin credible. the white house and karl icahn are now pretending that never happen. that he was never appointed to anything in the trump administration. he never had that title. honestly this is their defense. the white house tells the new yorker that karl icahn never had a quote formal appointment or title after inauguration day. never had it. they're saying this never happened. president-elect donald trump names karl icahn special adds visor to the president on regulatory reform. that is their own press release. they're saying this never happened. no way. why would you think that this happened? why would you think he had been named a special regulatory adviser to president trump? why would you think something so crazy. clearly that never happened. this is the press release. the white house lawyer in charge of conflicts of interest making sure that conflicts of interest
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like this don't happen in the u.s. government is saying that karl icahn never had that gig at all, despite what you might have heard. they claim he was quote simply a private citizen. that lawyer -- that's the ethics lawyer. that lawyer that's supposed to make sure that karl icahn is complying the ethics laws, that lawyer used to work for karl icahn, clearly he's in a great to be the arbiter of ethics here. we're not post soviet core upt i stand. isn't somebody going to police this? is anybody going to investigate this? the justice department does have a big hairy corruption unit, right? are they going to investigate this at doj or could the attorney general in new york, could he investigate this? even if you are cynical, maybe
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this is one of those nights breaking news from washington just in the last couple of minutes. the inspector general office has launched a ethics investigation into a member of donald trump cab bet, interior secretary ryan
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syncy. he's posted a letter from the office of inspector general at the department of interior. what this is about is apparently interior secretary making calls reportedly threatening federal resources for the state of alaska in order to pressure senator lisa mer cous ski on health care reform. we were just discussing this with barbara mckwad, a u.s. attorney, she was describing this as a example of log rolling, something distasteful but not criminal. it is the sub of a open ethics investigation by the interior department inspector general. that news breaking moments ago. joining us now, recall ter should wash. he was the director of the office of ethics, he's the senior -- mr. shaw thank you for
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being here it's weirdly timely that you're with us. >> i think every day is weirdly timely these days. >> on ethics, yes. i don't know if you saw the news before i announced it, but i want to get your top line news that the inspector general at the interior department is looking into the calls placed bizeinke. >> i isn't seen it until you posted it. i don't know the details. having worked with the inspeektor general community and having sat at the council as part of my job of the office of government ethics is that these are serious investors. we're fortunate that cabinet agencies like the service of interior have inspectors general. there's no such thing in the white house. unfortunately for mr. zeinkz is that he better cooperate. >> let me ask you about the new
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reporting concerning carl icahn, he's a farmous big figure. we've been following for months this good business reporting how he might have been using his position as a regulatoriy adviser to the president to self deal, to help make himself many millions of dollars by effecting a price of a regulatoriy instrument that shaped the bottom line financial picture for his company. this is -- all seems to have happened out in the open. how have you viewed this reporting? is this sort of business as usual? is this a serious matter of ethical concern? >> it's no overstatement to say this is one of the most sin sister episodes of ethical concern in this administration, ang frankly any time since i began working in the ethics program 15, 17 years ago. what we have here is a situation
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where the white house and presumably aided by the white house counsel's office whose ethics official was a former attorney for carl icahn, have stayed out of it and have not ruled that he's a federal employee. they tell patrick keith, the reporter who wrote the reporter article that they didn't analyze it. the spokesperson said there's no need to analyze this. of course there's a need to analyze this because the criminal conflict of interest stat uch says if you're a federal employee, you simply cannot participate in matters that are going to affect your own financial interest. the question here is whether mr. icon was a federal employee or not, and the white house is telling us they never even sat down and analyzed that. >> you sent a series of tweets in response to his report that basically was a emergency flair to the public integrity section of the justice department asking them to take a look at it. to help senator grassley in the
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senate judiciary committee if they want to look at this. who should be investigating this. it feels like a incredibly blatant red flag here if not more than that. who is job is this to police this. >> flair is right. i feel like i'm standing at the desk of the titanic. this is a serious issue. the reporter did a extraordinary job, he did the department of justice 'job for him. he uncovered significant information that raises enough smoke. mr. iekon may have another side to the story, but there is certainly enough here that the department of justice needs to dig into this and look at it, or the judiciary committee should have a hearing either about carl icahn's status about when he was a employee or into the department of justice's failure to look into this.
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this entire matter unfoaled without involvement of the office of ethics. when you go to the department of justifies and ask them for help as the director of ethic, the actual response i got from the head of public integrity this year was, we read the paper, too, so we don't need you reporting things to us. >> wow. walter schwab, former director of office of ethics, senior director of office of ethics. we'll be right back. stay with us whoooo.
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investigation conducted by senate committees, we've had news about the 10 hours herself closed door senate testimony from the founder of the firm of the trump russia >> good evening, rachel. i've learned so much in your hour. first of all that people in phoenix are called phonicians. which the mayor of phoenix said on your show. i did not know that. >> nor did i.


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