tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 29, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PDT
under water. >> people carrying babies on their soldiers. >> we've been rescued. we're thankful. >> what did you just go through back there. >> hell. >> why no evacuation? >> should there have been a bigger effort to evacuate houston? >> plus as the president prepares to tour the damage. >> they are saying the biggest, historic. >> the clearest picture yet on trump world coordination with the russians. new york times and washington post reporters who broke the stories join me live. and the president explains his thinking and his timing on the pardon of joe arpaio. >> in the middle of the hurricane, i assume ratings would be higher than they would be. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the fourth largest city in the nation is under water. as harvey continues to dump rain
on eastern texas. the worst flooding in the state's history. in houston, thousands stranded waiting to be rescued tlaz water keeps rising and rain keeps falling. with totals up to 50 inches expected in some areas by the end of the week. that is a year's worth of rain in a matter of days. at least ten people have lost their lives and the result of the storm. while 30,000 are expected to need emergency shelter according to the federal emergency management agency. the president and first lady are now headed to texas first thing tomorrow morning to survey the damage. >> i look very much forward to it. things are being handled really well. the spirit is incredible of the people. the coordination between different services as you snow going well. traveling throughout certain parts and we may go back on saturday depending on where the storm goes we may also go to louisiana on saturday. >> storm comes amid an onslaught
of new revelations bit president and his company to build a trump tower in moscow during the presidential campaign. in an e-mail published by the "new york times" a business associate of the president's drew a direct link between that project and trump's white house bid. he wrote, i will get putin on this program and we will get donald elected. meaning elegislatived president. that e-mail sent by felix sater, with known mob ties. he was behind the trump's soho project in new york city. the recipient of the e-mail, michael cohen, president's long time lawyer and executive of the trump organization. in the wake of russia's interference in the trump administration and amid collusion in the trump campaign the president himself insisted he had no russian ties to compromise it. >> i had no dealings with russia. i have no deals in russia.
i have no deals that could happen in russia. because we've stayed way. >> while that may have been strictly true when he said it this past january we now know it did not tell the whole story. "the washington post" broke this weekend. the trump organization did seek a deal to build a trump tower in moscow while its chief executive was act live i running for president. that effort led by sater and cohen lasted until january 2016 on the eve of the first primaries. but that point trump was leading the field for about six months. we know that sater and cohen weren't just going rogue because again, as we have just now learned, the president himself signed a nonbinding letter of intent sometime in 2015 to do the deal. cohen explained in a statement to nbc news that trump moscow pro posal is simply one of many development opportunity the trump organization committed. but reaching out to the kremlin
to get it back on track. post breaking the news today that i coulden e-mailed vladimir putin's personal spokesperson to ask him for help advancing the stalled trump tower moscow deal. writing, as this project is too important i am here by requesting your assistance. according to the "new york times" cohen e-mailed paskov, at press.gov. regardless, the correspondents showed efforts by the trump team to cooperate with the russian government. he claimed quote the trump tower moscow proposal is not related in any way to the trump campaign. but kushl crucially that is not now felix sater, the other side of the deal, portrayed the e-mails published again bit new york times.
suggesting that the deal's success and vladimir putin's involvement could be the factor that put donald trump in the white house. i quote from that e-mail. buddy, our boy can become president of the usa and we can engineer it. i will get all of putin's team to buy on this. i will manage this process. i'm joined by two of the reporters who have been breaking these huge stories. ross lin helderman. and thank you both. rossalynn, i will start with you. complicated things in terms of the characters whaen we are learning. just the time line of this deal. one of the big revelations that starts in the reporting over the weekend and develops today is we were told that basically there is no overlap between donald trump running for president and trump pursuing a moscow deal. that is definitively not true, as we now know, right? >> right. donald trump starts running for president in june of 2015.
we now know that in september of 2015 is when these conversations about sort of this attempt to build a trump tower in moscow begin. donald trump himself signs that letter of intent with a moscow-based development company on october 28, 2015. and then we get this e-mail from michael cohen to dimy try peskov. so what you've got a an active process during the heat of the republican primary campaign election. >> now, not only that, matt, but to your reporting on that sater e-mail which is pretty remarkable document, because it explicitly connects the two, right? it could be the case that there is a parallel that is the trump org and they are doing deals everywhere, in turkey, in the philippines. but the sater e-mail says, no, no, no, there is a direct line. if we build this and get pewter pute /- putin on board, that will get donald trump elected.
>> well his logic is the world needs to see that donald trump is this brilliant businessman and great negotiator. if we can get him cutting a deal with russia and on the same stage as vladimir putin then the world will see that he he is not just a great businessman he is a great statesman. this will elevate his portfolio. this will show he is the man to bridge the gap, you know, in our relations with russia. again a lot of this, as russia said, a lot of this just showes a willingness by people around trump to kind of grab hold of russia both as business solution and as a political solution. we saw it in the june trump tower meeting. a willingness of the trump campaign to say yeah, i'll take damning information on hillary clinton. >> and part of this too, it is not complete idle speculation or
vaporware they are coming up with, right? what is your understanding of the degree which there are other people on the other side of this potential deal that folks in trump's orbit are in constant contact with? >> yeah, i mean, this was real proposal. obviously it did not come to fruition. that's a theme in the trump business world of deals that start to get off the ground and don't ultimately result in a project but you know, we know from cohen's statement to congress that they apparently had a conversation with architects about building plans for this. they had conversations about financing for this project. you did get this initial letter that is signed by donald trump himself. so this was a real negotiation. they were really trying to build the trump tower, while donald trump in moscow, while trump was running for president. >> what seems established here matt and i would like you to weigh in on this, in your reporting, in washington post reporting, rossalynn's reporting and reporting on the meeting, in all three cases, if russia and
representatives of the russia state wanted to send information or set up a meeting or contract the trump orbit or vice versa, there were channels along which that could conceivably be pursued? >> no question. when we have, we have an administration previously a campaign that said over and over again no contact with russia, no contract with russia, no contract with russia. and it's been, gosh, only the end of august. it's been eight months of nonstop contact with russia. so of course, there were channels by which russia could pass information or channels where information could be exchanged. the thing is, is we don't know, obviously if we have seen e-mails here, we haven't seen information showing there is hacked e-mails and they are going to come out and this is how it will go. that's really the smoking gun. but what we are seeing here is just another example of another channel of people who have access to or claim to have
access to high level russian officiales who can get things done and get information and get close to putin. >> and to that point, and here is the sort of one take away and one question i think for future reporting, you know, we never know -- we don't know, we are seeing a very small sample of the e-mail. we don't know what happened after the infamous don trump e-mail meeting. it to me, and i will ask you to weigh in on this, we have a small sample of the e-mails here. we don't know what happens afterwards. is that right, rossalynn? >> yeah. that's a fair point. i think we reported previously there were 20,000 e-mails that had gone to congress and that apparently did not include these new e-mails because our understanding is they went to congress just today. so what we know about so far is in a very, very small percentage of those notes. and you know, i think it is fair to say there is probably likely to be more to come out as we learn more about what is in all of those e-mails.
>> here is the e-mails i want to see. what e-mail traffic was going around the trump orbit when they find out about the dnc hack getting published and people start accusing russia? what light bulbs do you think went on in people's heads? rossalin and matt, thank you both. >> thank you. >> senator chris murphy is a connecticut democrat. particularly outspoken on this issue. how many more dots do you feel like you need to see connected? >> i think you need to start here with what we absolutely know. what we absolutely know for sure is that russia skpinded an unbelievable amount of money and effort to try to influence this election in donald trump's favor. hundreds of russian operatives potentially, hundreds of millions of dollars. the question is, why? why are they so sure that donald trump is a safe bet? and what you are understanding now is that they had lots of windows in to how directly connected donald trump was to
potential very lucrative opportunities to line his pockets in russia. whether it be the investments that russian entities made in the trump operation, that he is likely trying to hide by not releasing tax returns or this potential deal to put a trump tower inside russia. they were pretty sure when they made the big investment that donald trump had and could have a future big financial stake in russia. and ne know what motivates him first and foremost is the security of his wallet, of his financial empire. so i think you're seeing why the russians may have believed that they were making a pretty safe bet. >> this strikes me as an interesting theory in the case. we are saying, let's table for a moment whether there is collusion, actively conspireing on the hacks. what you are saying is russia probing and satisfying themselves. these are people we can work with, people with can influence, people we can get to before the big thing happens when is that they decide to publish those hacked e-mails in the dnc. all this stuff we are learning
is before them. >> right. and if we believe everything in this post report, these are pretty high leflt communications. people close to putin talking to people close to donald trump. and so it would, you know, lead to you believe there is a level of satisfaction inside the russian government that they knew who these people were that they were dealing with. >> i want to ask you on the foreign relations committee and outspoken about the forth policy in the world and i want to ask you to respond to something rex tillerson said. this is remarkable. about what the president speaks for. let's take a listen. >> i don't believe anyone doubts the american people's values or commitment of the american government or government's agencies to advancing those values and defending those values. >> and the president's values? >> and the president speaks for himself, chris. >> are you separating yourself for that, sir? >> i've made my own comments as to our values as well in a speech i gave to the state department this past week.
>> what do you make of that? >> that is a blow your socks off moment. that is rex tillerson very confidently separating himself from the president of the united states. with respect to the president's statements about charlottesville. i think there are some members of the cabinet frankly thinking about their legacy. but at the same time, let's remember, tillerson is throwing some stones from a glass house when he is talking about american values. it is worth remembering at the same time he is trying to scrub democracy promotion and human rights advancement from the mission of the department of states. when you think about american values, trying to get more people access to democracy, save people from terror and torture overseas has been a fundamental american value. rex tillerson as much as donald trump has something to do with that being erased from our country's mission statement. >> north korea pairs to have launched yet another ballistic missile. this crossing over japanese airspace. text alert to japanese citizens. scary moment.
they fired over japanese before but not ballistic ones. what is your reaction? >> well, listen, this is probably a most provocative action they have taken so far. it suggests they believe they are acting with some degree of impunity. trump ahead these over the top statements about the military repercussions of attacking the united states. he has been hand-handed about it. it not wrong to say there is a disproportionate if they come us to or land close to one of our allies. but they don't believe there is any other path that will ultimately hurt them. they don't think we have a handle on a diplomatic path that would do damage to their country. from the beginning many of us said there is a big piece of this north korea strategy missing. that is way to get other countries around asia to change north korea's behavior. they don't seem to fear that path which is why they act in this manner.
>> thank you, chris murphy. >> thank you. >> would an evacuation order have helped in houston? or just compounded and exacerbated the devastation? i will talk to man who made the decision to evacuate that city, in two minutes. most american homeowners would be shocked if they knew just how rich they were. the average american home value has increased $40,000 over the last 5 years. but many don't know you can access that money without refinancing or selling your home. with a home equity loan, you can pull cash out of your house for anything you need- home improvement, college tuition, even finally getting out of credit card debt. come to lendingtree.com to shop and compare home equity loans right now. because at lendingtree, when banks compete, you win.
new, more reliable equipment for your home. and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever. one that keeps you connected to what matters most. big parts of houston are under water tonight. and it looks like it is still getting worse. hurricane harvey made land fall friday night dumping a record obliterating amounts of rain and is forecast to continue for several more days. volunteers are rescuing people from water that now reached up to several feet high. >> it was over five feet in our house. we barely made it out. i'm just so grateful that they came. >> wh when they was telling p em to shelter in place i don't think people need to shelter in place. i think they need to lead as soon as possible. >> that gentleman isn't the only one suggestion people should leave their homes.
but houston authorities told people to shelter and stay in place and with good reason according to the mayor. >> the major thing is to stay off the street. no evacuation was given for houston harris county. we are not in the direct line of the hurricane. for the areas in rockport, victoria, corpus christi further south, they were in the direct path. harris county, houston, we were not. >> comparing houston this time around with hurricane yeet in 2005 when 3 million texans were evacuated many at the same time. from the tribune, of the 139 deaths linked to hurricane rita, people died in a bus fire. 10 others died from hypothermia due to heat expiring in their cars. many people ran out of gas over traffic jams that lasted two straight days. in contrast, here is what some houston area highways look like this weekend instead.
former mayor of houston who ran the city during rita and katrina joins me by phone. bill white. thanks for your time to might, mr. white. first, how are things right now in houston? >> the water is still coming. and i'll tell you what, computer models 20, 25 inches of rain, and some parts of the nation's fourth largest city, one of the largest metropolitan areas, are getting 40 to 50 inches of rain in the forecast now. which is to put it in perspective, about the same amount of rain as you would normally get in a year in this area. >> you were there during rita and katrina. i think a lot of people understood why the evacuation happened with rita because you had just watched what happened with katrina. people felt like they learned lessons from rita in terms of how hard it is to actually evacuate a city the size of
houston. do you think this mayor made the right call in having people shelter in place? >> yes. certainly people who are not in the direct hundred-year, 500-year flood plain and moreover, pointing out on rita, we only had a mandatory evacuation area for the storm surge area. wh happened and surveys who showed this the benefit of hindsight, is that ten times as many people evacuated at the same time because they witnessed what happened in katrina. so the idea of avoiding panic is, you know, a legitimate point. >> the infrastructure of the city seems at one level overwhelmed. as it would be. given the sheer amount of water. what is your sense of how bad this is going to be for the city of houston in long-term? >> first in american perspectives, it could be the largest natural disaster in
terms of property damage the united states has ever seen. bigger than some of the likes of sandy, right now, katrina. a big hurricane that hit florida, share that dubious honor along with rita. because we are such a, you know, large metropolitan area. and there's going to be a significant percentage of homes including mine, i might add, that are under water. so this will be a very large undertaking. the key issue for people to watch though is then what is going to be the response of the federal state and to some extent local governments in making sure that people who are now rendered homeless, they can't go back to their home, could be the same magnitude as, or significant fraction of the people that were evacuated after katrina. how will they learn the lessons
we learned in katrina, including successes to make sure that people are in apartments and can move on with their lives. >> mayor bill white, former mayor, obviously everyone in america is pulling for you and the city. we're all watching with our fingers crossed and prayers. thank you so much for taking time tonight. >> you take care. >> the texas tribune and pro public partnered to publish a bigger part last year and point out why texas was not ready for another big hurricane. one of those reporters joins me now by phone. anina, that piece about particularly houston that made it particularly susceptible to flooding in the case of a big storm. what is it about houston that makes it so challenging? >> there are two things i would say about houston that make this such a challenging issue. number one, as the mayor said earlier, this is a huge small sprawling metropolis and of course we have seen incredibly widespread flooding.
we have seen flooding across all of harris county, which is home to houston. across neighboring counties. that's a huge impact there. a lot of places and people that can get flooded out. second of all, scientists and experts said again and again, houston has allowed unchecked development that made this flooding worse. let's be clear, this flooding would have occurred no matter what, i think, the amount of rain fall that has fallen is just so huge. however, scientists and experts say some of the damage could have been prevented had houston developed better. >> so you've got a city that's been building very rapidly. it is also shot through with waterways and bu bayous that make it prone to flooding. you wrote this piece that said look the policies in the city of houston, growth plus climate change equals a disaster is coming our way. what was the reaction when you published that piece last year? >> i think a strong reaction. a lot were seeing the piece
because they felt their voices weren't being heard. they felt not enough attention was paid to the issue of flieding in the city. we got a very good response. and a lot of people were, frankly, shocked to hear what local officials told us when we interviewed them. local officials in houston did not think development was contributing to flooding. which is not what scientists told us. local officials didn't have plans to look at climate change or see if they needed to plan for frequent and more intense rainstorms. which scientists is a sure thing for houston. there is a lot of shock for that as well. >> from a perspective of watching this happen from afar, seems like two things. one, sheer amount of rain is incomprehensible and would overwhelm any city in america. number two, the response of folks going out and helping each other is incredible and heartening. what do you make of the state and local response in terms of getting people out and rescuing
folks? >> i think they are doing the best that they can. i think it was hard to anticipate this amount of rain. i think it was hard it anticipate how widespread it would be. we were here, we've been here since friday. even on saturday night we still wrpt weren't sure if things would be as bad as houston as they ultimately were. city and state government don't have enough resources to deal with this storm. that why they are calling on private citizens. we spoke with many people evacuated from their homes. couldn't get through to 911 or 311. helped by private citizens from the roofs of their homes to whatever evacuation center they ended up at. resources are stretched thin for sure. >> we should note that maybe 15 to 20 inches more forecast. i have seen reports, evacuation centers are starting to overfill. that is something to keep your eye on as we move through the rest of the weeks. thank you so much. great report.
unfairly treated by the obama administration especially right before an election, an election he would have won, and he was elected many times. so i stand by by pardon of sheriff joe and i think the p em who know him best would agree with me. >> he lost the last election by double digits and defied a judge's toward stop his unconstitutional targeting and detaining of he and his officers suspected to be undocumented imgrant with no evidence to support it. washington post reports that as joe arpaio is headed to jail this spring, it is asked if it is possible for the government to drop the case against joe arpaio but was advised it was inappropriate. so the president pardoned him. arguing that presidents pardoned worse people. and the man who successfully
>> worth taking a moment to consider who exactly president trump pardoned on friday night and his record. maricopa county sheriff joe are a are a pio, convicted of stopping and illegally targeting latinos. joe arpaio is a conspiracy theorist who once staged an assassination attempt against himself to boost his profile. his words is a concentration camp where prisoners ate worse than prison dogs, working in heat that sometimes burned their sneakers. county taxpayers have also paid $7. 0 million to defend racial profiling. from 1998 to 2010 the county paid $10 million to inmates and relatives tore injury and death claims.
>> sheriff joe, what a great guy. i love you, sheriff joe. what a great guy! >> joining me now, the man who as assistant attorney general brought the successful lawsuit against joe arpaio for targeting latinos. first explain why the government brought the case it did against joe arpaio. >> he repeatedly abused his authority. he was racially profiling latinos. arresting people and detaining people without probable cause. he was retaliating against people who complained against his practices. he engaged in unlawful practices in the jail itself. and one of the other things we found, chris,often underreported is we found 400 cases that involved allegations of rape, other serious crimes that went uninvestigated.
because he had this focus on making sure abuelita had her papers. i will note that the initial inquiry was open in june 2008. george w. bush was the president when the initial inquiry was open. >> i didn't know that. >> under my watch is when we issued letter of finding that resulted in a lengthy proceeding and parallel proceeding filed by private plaintiffs and same findings were adjudicated bay court which is that he repeatedly abused his authority engaged in unconstitutional policing. he is a disgrace to law enforcement. >> this is what the president said today. >> i thought he was treated unbelievably unfairly when they came down with their about big decision to go get him right before the election voting started. as you know. and he lost in fairly close election. he would have won the election. but they just hammered him just
before the election. i thought that was a very, very unfair thing to do. >> was is it politically motivated. >> of course not. why don't we talk about the facts, chris. initial inquiry open in june of 2008 under the watch of george w. bush. when we investigated, one of the reasons we didn't release ourer of findings until december of 2011 was because they fought us tooth and nail. they wouldn't give us access to information. we had to go to court and file a lawsuit to get access to information. and so, 2011 was when we issued our let are of findings. so this cased eight or nine-year shelf life to it because they continued to fight and fight and fight. this pardon is unconscionable. this doesn't deserve a pardon. what i think i remember most about this case, chris, is a
deputy sheriff who said to our investigative team and this isn't tom perez speaking, this is the deputy sheriff speaking, joe arpaio constructed a wall of distrust between the sheriff's office and the community. that was the wall that he built. and it was a wall that was a terrible wall, unconstitutional wall. it wasn't safe for policing and it was terrible for the community. >> final question about the washington post reporting this weekend which i thought was remarkable. that the president asked jeff sessions can we just drop the case. eric holder tweeting a number of times over the six years president obama called me to ask me about dropping the case. zero. what does that say to you? >> again this president has no idea about the notion of the independence of the department of justice. remember, what he said to comey when he was fbi director. hey, can you go light on my buddy, flynn. then this situation, hey, mr. attorney general, you ought to drop this case. that is an abuse of power.
that is unconscionable. as eric holder said earlier today, that never happened mr. barack obama. i entered the justice department when george herbert walker bush was president. i'm confident that george herbert walker bush never asked that of dick hornberg. >> thank you for being with me tonight. >> thienk you. >> i want to play for you the president's explanation tonight, earlier today, of why he thought that attention would be garnered by his timing of joe arpaio and the role that ratings played. take a listen. >> a lot of people think it was the right thing to do, john. and in the middle after hurricane, even though it was a friday evening, i figured ratings would be higher than they were. the hurricane started. >> always with his eye on the ball. >> what today's latest revelations mean ahead. and the last word on how the gorka erica ended. thing one tonight,
thing one tonight, short-lived era of the alpha male. >> the message i have is a very simple one. a bumper sticker sean. the era of the pajama boy is over january 20th and alpha males are back. >> she bastion gorka, controversial assistant to the president. extremely questionable prekre credentials was not at the white house today. deputy assistant sebastian gorka resigned, portions of his resignation letter. but within an hour the white house gave the statement sebastian gorka has not resigned but i can acknowledge he no long every works at the white house. did he resign or was he fired?
>> to have a whenly official in the comms shop basically lie about how i left the white house, that disappointing. it's disturbing. the fact of the matter as was reported in the federalist and elsewhere after the afghan speech and i decided it's time to resign and support the president from the outside more effectively. i told general kelly, i requested a meeting with him. i informed him both over the phone and via e-mail on friday that as of that day i am resigning. those are the facts of the matter. >> are those the facts of the matter? we have documentary evidence from the white house an e-mail entitled staff, do not admit gorka. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds.
we have new information about what happened friday night over an hour before the federalist broke the news reporting dporka resigned there was already an order from the white house security system not to let gorka into the building. all in obtained an e-mail that circulated among the secret service stating joc, joint operations center, please notified officers, do not admit sebastian gorka executive office of the president blue pass holder. he is do not admit and his pass deactivated. in a follow-up e-mail sent at 7. :14 p.m. mr. gorka is likely still in position of his piv and white house pass as dna status was performed without him being on complex. we spoke with two former white house staff members who said an e-mail like this is not remotely normal saying they had never seen a direct ef like this for an employee voluntarily departing. this does not prove he was fired
police have now charged three more people after violent attacks against counter protesters in charlottesville a little over two weeks ago. daniel patrick gourden and alex michael have been charged with the brutal beating of deandre hair. the attack spread on social media. another incident caught on tape went unnoticed until the aclu found footage and gave it to the fbi. showing a white supremacist yelling the n word pulling out handgun and firing at the charlottesville protest. [ bleep ] [ gunfire ]
[ bleep ] [ bleep ]. >> that was a gunshot. >> walking away post the line of police there. police identified the shooter as a baltimore resident, richard wilson preston. he was arrested saturday in maryland charged with discharging a firearm within a thousand feet of a school. he was identified in news reports as imperial wizard of a ku klux klan. answers for which cannot come soon enough.
new developments tonight in the special council's investigation in russia. robert mueller's team is looking into president donald trump's role in crafting a published article about a meeting with the russians and his son donald trump jr. a person said that whether or not a trump made a knowingly false statement is of interest to prosecutors. this news coming from amid the reports of the "new york times" detailing efforts for the trump team to cooperate with the russian government. barbara mcquade and paul butler, former prosecutor both join me now.
paul, let me start with you. there are so many signals it appears to how seriously they're taking this. what do you make of the news reporting from nbc news they're interested in this statement? >> why does donald trump keep denying he had all of these dealings with the russians. he denied it with regard to business and politics. there's nothing illegal if you're a real estate developer trying to start a business some place. it sounds like consciousness of guilt to a prosecutor. sounds like he's trying to cover up. mueller may be like, i don't know what you're trying to cover it but it sure sounds like something. >> that statement again, the reporting indicated on the night back from his big trip to europe the president wrote the statement that don jr. gave, which again, to remind everyone, was basically false in what it communicated about the meeting. we talked about adoption. it wasn't a campaign issue.
it left all of that stuff out. what would be the legal i guess cans of the president intervening to create that false impression? >> it's not a crime to make a false statement to the public or the media of course. >> no. i've learned that the hard way, barbara. >> what it shows is there is a willful intent by the president to mislead others what's going on in the russia investigation. not just what he did what was on his mind is an important part of robert mueller's task. >> here's my take away from the reporting. there's two channels here. like what is legally chargeable and what is a violation of the crime and what is weird and aberrant behavior. here's my takeaway. in june you've got a meeting at the trump tower, we're going to give you dirt. given all of that when the dnc e-mails come out, it seems that
there's no way they did not know exactly what was going on. >> because we have a constant eagerness by trump operatives to be hooked up with the russians. what the you do for me with regard to building that tower. and with that meeting with trump jr. and kushner, how can you hook us up in regard to the campaign. it's not smoking gun with collusion which would be conspiring to hack e-mails. >> or to release them at a certain time or something like that. >> but what we do have is motive, wanting to win the election and we have means, all of these shadowy channels of communications. >> channels that are already established that could be used for that end should that be what they want to pursue. >> and the investigation is just getting started. >> the legal status of a statement, donald trump, the day after the rnc, this is when the dnc e-mails have just leaked. he looks in the camera and says russia if you're listening, i
hope you can find hillary clinton's 33,000 treated e-mails. it seems that he meant that very seriously like i literally know you're looking to help me and i'm telling you right now what would help me >> it seems so obvious because he said it to the whole world. but when you put it in context it seems that the timing is such that he did know what was going on with russia and e nails at the time. one of the things that the prosecutor will do is building a timeline of all of these events as they're learning more and more facts, they're putting additional pieces on the time line so that at some point they can see what the narrative actually is and what it all means. even though he said that play tent blatantly. i've used that as evidence of crime. just because he said it publicly -- >> in some ways that the publicness of it seems exculpatoriry. but he may just state it in
front of everyone. >> when you do the public corruption cases, you can never be surprised but how dumb folks would be. you would think they wouldn't make gray level mistakes but that do all of the time. here's why donald trump is in an uneniable passion. if he's a target. r, he will be subject to being impeached. but if he's just a subject he will be asked to testify by robert mueller. he's going to have to come clean, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing by the truth. he has a hard time doing that. >> that's going to be an amazing moment and a legal battle if you try to get the president of the united states to come to your grand jury testimony. >> it could happen. bill clinton had to testify before a grand jury and i think it's a great point that paul makes. president trump as we have seen enjoying puffing and doesn't always tell the exact truth. but when you're under oath in front of the grand jury telling