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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  September 1, 2017 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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>> as the waters slowly recede, the incredible scope of the recovery is just beginning to be realized. >> the floodwaters still pouring into communities. >> first responders are in search and rescue mode still. >> take the astro dome, eeld football and baseball stadium here and fill it to the roof, 3,200 times, that's how much water the city of houston, the county of harris county has been trying to deal with over this week. >> what's left of harvey is now leading to new flooding in other parts of the south. >> we do have flash flood warnings in effect right in and around bowling green, kentucky. a major pipeline closed in the wake of the storm, gas prices soaring nationwide as millions hit the road this labor day weekend. >> with a quarter of the nation's refineries off line, a quarter offline, gas prices are rising just in time for the holiday weekend. >> there's talk that president trump could end daca, the program that president obama put in place to protect those
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children who were brought to the country. >> there were more than half a million undocumented immigrants in houston, it's the city with the third largest undocumented population in the country. >> my advice to the president would be to end daca right now. >> attorneys for the president have reportedly met with robert mueller and trying to make the case he did not obstruct justice when he fired jim comey. >> more questions about the meeting they had with russians. we're seeing a very little bit of what is a very, very big investigation. >> all right, let's get the latest now on harvey, a week now after making landfall in texas as a category 4 hurricane. it's now a tropical depression but it's still creating havoc. torrential rains are still causing flooding now in tennessee. more flooding expected in kentucky as harvey heads there today. >> as for the devastation in texas, 38 people now confirmed dead. large areas remain under water
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and officials estimate that more than 100,000 homes are destroyed or damaged. >> no exact figures this morning but number of people in shelters is dropping dramatically from a high of 34,000 as people start returning to their homes. power outages are also down to about 160,000 customers from a high of over 300,000. the mayor of houston has declared the city open for business. president trump tweeted this morning texas is healing fast thanks to all of the great men and women who have been working so hard but still so much to do. will be back tomorrow. >> some of the biggest problems this morning remain in the city of port arthur texas, east of houston which was swamped by flood waters and cut off forcing dramatic rescues. where you saw so much of those chopper rescues. blake mccoy joins us live from port arthur. give us an update. >> reporter: stephanie, good morning. this was one of the hardest hit areas because it was one of the
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last areas hit by the storm, the third landfall. right now the water is starting to recede in the city. this neighborhood behind me is one of the last neighborhoods in the city that still has water in it because it's a low lying neighborhood prone to flooding anyway. you can see a significant amount of water here. as we've driven around town to places flooded yesterday, all bone dry. there is an improving situation on the ground in port arthur. you can see how far the water has gone down this morning. look at that, 6 inches since the sun came up this morning. things are on the up and up. there are three shelters open and people started to return home. the water and sewer fully functional and power starting to be restored. i want to show the refineries because you were talking about those being offline, they are still offline but they are going to be opening soon. they are stable and waiting to reopen. look at this.
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i don't know if you can hear me, that's a volunteer taking homeowners in to see what is left of their property. they are going to come back out and chat with us once they can look at their home. a lot of volunteers with boats have been coming out and very grateful neighbors have been thanking them along the way. >> when you look at those rescues, it is extraordinary. >> it is something. and they are still continuing this as you know was something that was -- on wednesday morning this was after the worst of it had passed in houston and kept hearing from people in port arthur. they don't have the same facilities houston has why you see more coast guard and navy. >> bear in mind, all of that water sitting in houses in the streets for days. >> people are going back to their homes but if there was water there for a few days, that damage, you can't just mitigate, doesn't just dry out. >> i keep thinking about the people who didn't evacuate because they couldn't afford it. if you couldn't afford to evacuate, when you come back to
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a home like that, these are scary times. not far from port arthur, a crisis is still unfolding in bure mont. one of the two hospitals had to close down because water has cut out the entire city. there's 120,000 residents there, still have no water after two water plants failed during the flooding there and the problem is, the water could be cut off for days. joining us live from beaumont, what's the update there? >> reporter: stephanie, just like you said, the irony was there was too much water after harvey and now not enough for residents here. no running water. behind me you see city workers that have been working overnight to try to fix the problem. gist of the problem is, basically there are these electrical pumps that pump the water, two miles north to my right. they pump the city water into this plant over here to my left. that is a water treatment plant. there's absolutely nothing wrong with the plant but since the
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pumps are under water, that creates the shortage of water you're seeing here. just in our short drive to beaumont this morning, you could see lines of 30 cars of people waiting to get water. this here is colby, who i want to introduce you to. you're part of the group of people working nonstop to make sure the city gets some water. what kind of system are you putting in place right now. >> what we've got is a high volume, high pressure pumping package. we're a contractor for the city. we've had a lot of support from the city, of course, from the local industry, family and team members, anybody. what we're doing, we're moving as much water as quickly as possible up into the treatment plant. >> colby, you'll doing that with these temp pumps. these are temp pumps you see behind us and these are also just some -- >> this is temporary piping and hose we're using to move the water from the bayou or river up into the plant. >> reporter: some good news, ali and stephanie for the folks in beaumont here.
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what kind of improvements have you made with this temporary system? >> we've made significant improvements, 48 hours ago there was basically no water going into the plant. right now we've got almost what we need. i have to say there's no guarantee this is going to stay like this but right now it's looking pretty good. >> reporter: thank you for all of your work. another silver lining in the midst of this tragedy. but the river here is supposed to crest later this afternoon towards this evening. that might complicate things as the day moves on. >> we'll take whatever silver linings you can bring. >> when he says looking good, we'll take that and run with it. in beaumont, texas, thank you so much. >> texas got a sea of environmental and health hazards lurking in the flood waters. in addition to snakes and fire ants and alligators. >> i want to point out there are no sharks on the highway. anyone who thinks they see sharks -- >> that's not true. >> no sharks.
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>> somebody sent me that. be careful of social media, it can do bad things to you. this is the sea of hazards in texas right now. we know about toxic chemicals, there are more chemicals in texas and louisiana than most places because they are byproducts of refining oil. sewage backed up and out there not being disposed of. then there's debris all over the place and the waste going to be generated by the fact that there are a lot of destroyed houses. this is prompting a lot of serious fears of real illnesses, including cholera, and typhoid. as for toxic chemicals, 2500 chemical plants, refineries and facilities like that in and around the houston area, also more than two dozen current and former toxic waste sites designated under the federal super fund program. you can imagine the danger of these things getting flooded. possib possibly leaching are lead,
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arsenic, benzene and other toxic chemicals and car scinogenarcin there's more fears of explosion at the plant in crosby, texas, 25 miles northeast of houston. officials there say there are two tons of highly unstable chemicals. explosions and a fire there yesterday which we covered on the show, set up a plume of akrid black smoke. they called the health risks minimal in crosby yet urged residents who were down wind to stay indoors with the windows closed to avoid inhaling the smoke. there's a lot of controversy around this because we spoke to a fire chief yesterday who said, i don't want to alarm people unnecessarily, but it is smoke and it is chemicals. >> it's black smoke, these are chemical plants. if i was a texas residents as a mom, if i were to go back to my home near a chemical plant with black smoking emitted, i wouldn't feel safe. >> you would be worried. >> former epa administrator jena
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mccarthy served in the final three and a half years of the obama administration. we have to start with the chemical plant. officials say the plant is one of the most hazardous in texas. now it makes organic peroxides that are used in kitchen countertops and pvc piping and cups and plates. the owners of the plant thought obama administration regulations which wanted to tighten safety and in june the trump administration delayed enforcing those regulations that the obama administration had put in place. so you know this plant very well. as an epa administrator you tightened those regulations. what do you think of the assessment from current epa administrator scott pruitt. >> stephanie and ali, good to be here and my heart goes out to the communities. i do not personally want to interject myself into what's going on at this point in time. i'm very happy that epa personnel are there.
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ep a's response in these incidences is to bring real data to the table, so that the public health concerns can be understood and risks could be avoided. clearly i'm familiar with that plant. you are right. we wanted to better require chemical plants to better prepare for emergencies like this. clearly this plant and many others i'm sure are not fuelly prepared as you can see. hazards result. that's why it's important that this administration move forward because anti-regulation rhetoric really falls very short and hollow in the face of these kinds of challenges. so let's take that rule, let's implement it and require these facilities to be better prepared and consider how much that will protect our communities and our first responders from the hazards that we're seeing today. >> let me ask you more generally then, because we see this with respect to fracking. we see it all over the place,
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where there are some people who say, look, there are chemicals around us and people like stephanie who are worried about their kids would do better to have the fullest amount of information about those and make judgments whether you want to live downwind from there -- >> transparency. >> and yet there are elements, not just this administration go back a long way, many in the business sector, who work very hard to get legislation that allows them to shroud disclosure of chemicals they are using. this just seems to be counter to common sense. >> there are issues here of national security which you have to recognize but epa did not fail to recognize it when we work forward with that rule. we worked with homeland security and every agency across the federal government. we're not disclosing information that will make our nation more at risk. we are moving forward with regulations that will protect those communities and in fact those plants as well.
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arkema is not doing well if the plant is in the current situation. we work with the business community. just to come in and say every rule done during the obama administration needs to be put on hold and rethought is just not responsible. you have to look at what the risks are and you have to address them reasonably and appropriately working with the business community. that's what we did here. and ali, i have to point out that these explosions and immediate risks aren't the only challenges that are being faced today in those communities. we have emissions being released into millions of tons, toxic emissions. people need to make sure there's accountability for those and those plants are started up appropriately and when people are returning to their homes, they recognize that this huge long-term risks risks right now and long-term risks from sewer and water damage that they need to be aware of and need to work with their communities and
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responders. >> we need to just underscore the point there is such a thing of overregulation but the entire spirit of regulation is to protect. >> and environmental legislation is something that is not unpopular with people. you and i know as pro business people that sometimes if you don't give business any restrictions at all, they will dump their stuff into the river. it's more profitable to dump your stuff into the river -- >> it's not just business, but often human nature. >> human nature, that's why the epa -- they have been under constant attack and continues to be under attack from some quarters in politics to say it just stands in the way of profitable, gina. >> well, lessons hopefully we'll learn here. if you properly regulate, you protect business and communities and public health. that's what you have to do. but don't forget you also have to during the recovery, think about rebuilding in a way that considers climate resilience.
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i don't think there's anybody questioning the climate is changing. for this administration to say don't think about that when you spend huge amounts of federal dollars for infrastructure is not reasonable. let's allow epa to continue to work with communities on climate resilience instead of shutting the office down and taking the information off the web. let's deal with reality as we see it today. this is a reality of deregulation and this is a reality of a changing climate. we need to face proper regulation and we need to face the changing climate head on or else you're going to see more of this and more intense storms. we can't -- >> we need thoughtful regulation, not punitive regulation and good conscious capitalism. thank you for joining us, gene ma mccarthy. >> coming up next, we'll talk about daca. will president trump ditch it today? it protects undocumented
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immigrants brought here where they are children. 800,000 people could face deportation and guess what, tens of thousands of them live right in the middle of the harvey disaster zone. we'll talk to chris cobach, key adviser to donald trump on immigration saying the president should end daca now. >> new jobs report out today, 156,000 added in the month of july and unemployment did tick up a bit. we'll break down the numbers here live on msnbc. mike and i are both veterans, both served in the navy. i do outrank my husband, not just being in the military, but at home. she thinks she's the boss. she only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product but i was like well i've had usaa for a while, why don't we call and check the rates? it was an instant savings and i should've changed a long time ago. there's no point in looking elsewhere really. we're the tenneys and we're usaa members for life. usaa. get your insurance quote today. with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis? how do you chase what you love
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we will immediately terminate president obama's two illegal executive amnesties in which he defied federal law and the constitution to give amnesty to approximately 5 million illegal immigrants. >> we're going to deal with daca with heart. it's a very difficult thing for me. because i love these kids. i love kids. i have kids. >> president trump wavering on his position about the continuation of daca, changing his substance from the campaign trail to the oval office. now it seems he may have made up his mind. the president is expected to pull the plug on the obama era policy that protects young undocumented immigrants from deportation. what is this program and why does it matter so much now?
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stands for the deferred action for childhood arrivals, allows unauthorized immigrants brought in as children to work and study legally. today nearly 800,000 are daca recipients, that mean 800,000 would be directly impacted if the program were to end. the removal could have a direct impact on the aftermath of hurricane harvey. why? because houston has the third largest unauthorized immigrant population in the country. translating to 575,000 people according to pugh research. of that number, nearly 57,000 houstonians are in the program and some 68,000 of harris county residents are daca eligible. the workforce in texas is 1.15 -- 1 million and 23% of that number in construction. workers will need to rebuild in the wake of hurricane harvey. joining us now kansas secretary
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of state chris cobach. >> great to be with you. >> trying to figure out the math. you're the secretary of state for kansas, you're running for governor of kansas and have a side gig as a columnist at breitbart. is that how it's working out? >> yeah, pretty much. >> you're busy. >> after dinner some nights i write a column. >> i know your argument that you've made and i'm sure you'll make it again, that there are legal issues with daca in your opinion, it is illegal and that's why it should be ended. i want to get by that for a second. i want to know what you feel is wrong with daca, 800,000 or more enroll ees and kids invited to come out of the shadow and renew it every two years. if anybody commits a crime, they don't get on it again and they all speak english, 45% of them are in school. seems to me like a brilliant project to get exactly the kind of immigrants this country needs. >> well, a couple of detail
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corrections, 886,000 who already received it. the eligible population is estimated to be 1.7 million. and people refer to it as kids. daca applies to anyone who can be up to 36 years old and claims they entered the united states before the age of 16, often times unable to prove it. you simply assert that's when you came in. the problem with daca is that congress in 1996 specifically passed a law, intended to end clinton's catch and release policy and said that i.c.e. agents have to put certain people in removal proceedings and the amnesty that president obama, orders agents to violate law and constitutional separation of powers, we could have a amnesty for dreamers population -- >> that's exactly where i'm skipping to. i tote sally agree with you but skipping to that to say that given that the president wants to increase economic growth by numbers that stephanie and i don't think are necessarily attainable, but would require
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immigrants, given that steven miller and the president doesn't matter whether they are up to 36 years old. would you support it if congress authorized it as opposed to it being a presidential order? >> i don't think it's adviceable. a.mnesty will encourage additional illegal immigration. we saw that and it caused a massive wave of additional aliens coming in illegally. i don't think it's necessary. i also think there are a lot of u.s. citizens who are underemployed or unemployed. this is an opportunity right now as the economy is starting to rev up for u.s. citizens to get back to work and get off the welfare roll. >> we're basically at full employment at 4.4 and to the president's point, illegal immigrations have dropped -- the president's number i want to say 70%, kudos to president trump since he was put into office. you say you could be up to 36
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years old but the average person in the program came to the united states when they were six years old. they didn't know any better. from an em pathetic point of view, why do this now? these are people who are contributing to society, we educated them. we took care of them. now they are working. they are providing tax dollars in your own state, if the people who are part of the daca program were kicked out of the country, kansas would lose something like 300 million bucks in gdp. >> well, there's a whole bunch of questions packed into that. let me answer some of them. one is the individuals in this program -- you said why do it now? the reason there's an impending deadline, ten states have written a letter, we're going to sue, the state has already won a lawsuit regarding the dapa and the courts found very clearly that that was illegal. daca is illegal for the same reason. it's not a maybe -- >> that hasn't been add jude
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indicated yet. the supreme court -- >> dapa -- >> daca has not, 100 clear on that. >> right. but dapa was an extension of daca -- >> i hear your argument but let's be clear our viewers don't think this has been adjudicated. >> okay, the fifth circuit, which is the court of appeals has ruled on the exact same legal issue. you're right the supreme court has not because they split 4-4. if it goes to the court -- >> you don't need how near gorsuch is to vote? >> we don't know, you never want to predict any supreme court ruling but i would be willing if you want to bet a steak dinner, i'd be willing to bet the supreme court rules it's unconstitutional. >> no one loses if we bet a steak dinner. i'll take the bet. let's talk about the legalities, this is not our specialty. it's yours more than is ours. but this is based on daca was based on a principle called
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prosecutorial discretion, prioritizing prosecution and getting to the most important issues first. tom bossert said we're going to give priorities to getting the people out of here who are both undocumented immigrants and have committed some sort of crime. again, by definition, if you are in daca, you can't have committed a crime. if you committed a crime, you're out. >> and can't get renewed. >> from a -- >> can't get renewed, correct. from a perspective of prosecution discretion, these guys aren't a priority. >> well, actually, it's not correct to say if if you haven't committed a crime you're not in daca. it allows you to get amnesty as long as you're not convicted -- >> hold on a second, if you haven't been convicted, you haven't committed a crime. >> right. what happens is a lot of gang bangers get arrested but the stay won't have the resources to
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prosecute all of them and so they are released. used to be before daca that the local county sheriff would release them to i.c.e. in the hopes i.c.e. would deport them. we have many cases of such individuals getting the daca amnesty. they've been arrested and haven't been convicted. but that arrest isn't enough to disqualify them from daca. the daca, we shouldn't have any illusion, it is a cross section of the illegal alien population. there are criminals and scholars, but it's not a -- an especially higher achieving cross section of the -- >> we have to make it clear, if you're not convicted of a crime in the eyes of the u.s. government, we don't believe you've committed one. >> well, but on the other hand, if you have been arrested and you are a gang member, which is some of the case of these daca -- >> i'm sorry, sir, no. there are many, many -- >> you're presumed innocent. >> you're presumed innocent
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until proven guilty. >> right, but let's remember, removal -- right, let me unpack what you said. removal is not a criminal penalties. if you're removed to your home you have not been convicted of a crime. so yes, law enforcement can make judgments and say we have to choose, we have limited resources, which person do we remove first. let's remove the person arrested for gang banging activity or gang member. that is a decision that can be made and it's not a presumption of innocence question because removal again is not a criminal penalty, you're simply asking the person to go back home. >> i'm going to take a leap. i might not know how neil gorsuch would vote and would take a leap to say mark zuckerberg isn't looking to hire gang bangers. he put together a group of ceos backing the dreamers. president trump, pro business president as he likes to say he is, why wouldn't he or you see ceos, the most successful leading ceos saying we need
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these employees, immigration, they will help us build, help the u.s. economy. i don't think mark zuckerberg is looking to hire the kripz and thugs. >> you off ten see ceos and co-is a ligs of business owners who support a.mnesty of any support. why do they do it? because they want to see cheaper labor. if you have more labor, especially alien labor pushed into the market willing to accept employment for a lower wage or salary, they are allowed to depress wages -- >> do you think they are looking for cheap labor? >> sure, they want people cheaper -- all of these employers would like to hire someone at a lower cost. if they employ someone -- same applies to college graduates. if you can get someone from another country at the lower price, many employers will seek out that person who they can hire for a cheaper price. >> let me ask you this because you're going to run for governor. this is an important idea to think about. we know a lot of people in the
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country think we should have comprehensive immigration reform. steven miller has come out with a thing called the raise act, counter economically to the president's goal of increasing gdp, because to have greater growth in a mature economy like ours, you have to have labor and people to work. we have a negative replacement rate in the united states as you know. you do actually have to get immigrants. weech already got this crowd of people here. why is it -- you do accept we need more immigrants right, rather than fewer? >> right, but you have to have immigration -- i agree, you have to have some immigration, but in the interest of the united states. what the raise act would do is put a reasonable cap on the number of green cards. roughly 500,000 instead of the million we're doing right now. 500,000 was a number we saw back in the early '9 o's and that's a more reasonable number that doesn't push down wages. we can make adjustments going forward but let's not have immigration come in that hurts
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the interest of working class and science and technology workers in the united states. let's make sure americans are better off whenever we allow in people from other countries. the other problem with the -- >> let's make sure we have that steak dinner and please know that -- >> for the record because we're on tv, we're taking the bet, right, because if neil gorsuch votes against daca we have to buy you a steak and if he doesn't, you have to buy us a steak but in the end all three get a steak which is real great. >> all right, yes, we will be on the record for a steak dinner if it gets to the supreme court. >> we'll leave it there. chris, thanks so much for joining us. >> i love it with every interview ended with the potential of us all having a steak. >> you're making me hungry. in the past half hour, you have to do this -- >> let's get back to storm coverage. let's take a look at hurricane irma. there's another hurricane out there. i'm not -- let's be careful,
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it's not upon us, but it's a category 3 hurricane -- >> still way out there though. >> the issue with this one the degree to which it has gained strength. it's growing quickly. it's moving westward. posing a potential threat to the caribbean and it is too soon to know if irma will be a threat to the united states on the atlantic coast. forecasters say they will know more next week. we'll keep our eye on that. >> as forecasters look ahead to irma, we'll continue to assess the damage from harvey. that storm has claimed 38 lives. that number is only expected to rise as crews continue their door to door search in flooded neighborhoods, knocking on doors, banging down windows. more than 100,000 homes have been damaged. some owners already starting the cleanup process. one that will be lengthy and come with a major pricetag. the total insured and uninsured flood loss is between 25 to $37 billion.
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70% of the damage as i mentioned completely uninsured and kerry sanders is on the ground in houston where crews are already at work. >> reporter: stephanie and ali, we're inside a home where you can see the work crews are already in. the floodwaters here exceeded 4 feet. so it was really deep here. in fact, why don't i show you -- look at that. you can see on the door. the teams you see here are working. homeowners have already hired somebody. this is a tricky business hiring somebody to come in and do the work because you want people who are going to do the work who are obviously covered insurancewise. let me interrupt you for a second. >> yes, sir. >> reporter: first of all, there is more work than any one company can do. obviously for you it's an opportunity to get a lot of work but at the same time what's your advice to homeowners who are desperate right now? >> i would say research your company, find out about them before you hire anybody off the street. i any a lot of people last year got ripped off by a lot of
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people. check and make sure they are insured and don't want to be libel for any damages for your home. >> reporter: one thing a homeowner would be worried about, a gentleman over here is tossing stuff, nails and stuff. if he gets hurt, is the homeowner with their homeowner's insurance responsible for his health or is that on you? >> if the person is carrying the proper coverage, yes. if not the homeowner can be liable. >> that's an important tip, i'll let you get back to work. a lot of work, a lot of garbage. take a look at this neighborhood. we have a shot from above as you look from the drone. this is estimated -- at this point to be about 10 years worth of household garbage in a matter of days. so there is going to be a lot of additional problems as they begin to haul this all away. where does it all go? stephanie, ali. >> my goodness. extraordinary. >> the trump administration is
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making a push to help those hit by harvey as congress is getting ready to return to capitol hill on tuesday. two republican sources tell nbc news the white house is expected to send an initial request for at least $5.5 billion in aid. likely going to be split $5 billion going to fema, disaster relief, 500 million going to a small business loan fund. the small businesses sometimes don't have the extra cash flow they need to do the stuff to get back up to speed. leaders in congress are hopeful that lawmakers will push the divisions aside to get this done. remember they couldn't get that done for sandy for a couple of months. they also need to pass an aid bill that would lift the debt ceiling. the deal is seeing some pushback, it sent the wrong message, the harvey relief would pass on its own and to use it as a vehicle to get people to vote for a debt ceiling is not appropriate. >> editor at large john harwood joins us now. is harvey going to unite lawmakers? we're looking at the potential
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showdown next week. but, god, look at the tragedy that is houston, you'd like to think the government could get together here. >> you would. and stephanie, this is the kind of thing that ought to be easy but what we've seen in the last few years is that the republican party has not shown the maturity to govern effectively in a consistent way. we've seen that from what they did on the debt limit in the past after taking over the house, the difficulties in keeping the government open and yes, they should do this. i had an interview with al franken, the democratic senator from minnesota. he setd we're going to get the harvey relief done. so that is a baseline expectation. but this is a party that has shown that it can sometimes not do the most basic things in governing. >> john, i think the mark meadows stuff and debt ceiling, even the president has said he wants to get the debt ceiling raised and treasury secretary, i think that's -- i think the debt ceiling will get raised but there is a reality of a
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continuing resolution and potential budget shutdown. the president had already been talking about holding that back because of his $10 billion wall requirement which many say will be $22 billion. now with harvey, we're defini definitely look beinging in the tens of billions definitely. >> the wall is not going to get funded in a substantial way. it wasn't even before this happened but now it's definitely not because so much money is going to have to go to harvey relief. there is the potential for a shutdown. there is a potential drk i know you said you think they are going to raise the debt limit. that certainly ought to be something they do but it's not clear they can do that. what you have within the republican party is a group of members who have a history of making demands that are not commence rat with either the power they hold or what public opinion will sustain. >> good point.
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i was being unduly optimistic in saying it's obvious we're going to raise the debt ceiling. >> but harvey could be in a per verse way for the president to finness himself out of the pressure to build the wall. he wasn't going to get the money before hand. >> now the president can say to his base, i love to build a wall but i need to build a shoreline instead. i've got to ask though, september 30th is the date the national flood insurance program is set to expire. is it going to get renewed? >> yes. this is again -- this is something that you're already seeing some by part an calls for, extending it and i think that's going to happen but, again, you've got to see if the basic blocking and tackling can be done by this republican government. they weren't able to do it on health care. that's a very difficult thing to do. but they also haven't passed a budget for 2018, which is something they need to get to
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tax reform. and they have a very, very difficult time reconciling conflicting priorities and blocs within their caucus. >> and also forget about deficit. when they say everybody would love corporate tax reform, 15% would be great for us. in order to get to 15%, that's certainly doesn't help our deficit in the freedom caucus. >> it does if you believe the argument, john, that it's going to create explosive economic growth. if you take corporate taxes down. i was talking to ron insana who said companies actually have a lot of money and have a lot of access. if desperation were to invest and build new plants, they have the money to do that right now. >> exactly right. and tax reform, it's possible a well designed tax reform could assist economic growth. and every american should hope they could come up with that. what we've seen, however, is that the reform part of tax reform is getting tossed overboard because that involves
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doing something difficult which is causing some people to pay more in order to bring the rates down. they have not shown an ability. that's part of what i said about the maturity that you need as a governing party. you've got to address tradeoffs in legislation to try to achieve the greater good. and they haven't shown the ability to do that. >> let me just mention to both of you, harwood and ruhle, that the government shutdown could happen on october 1st. >> don't go for another steak dinner. >> that's exactly where i was going. >> i already have indigestion. >> i hope you're free on saturday night, september 30th. we're going to be working -- >> stephanie probably has football tickets on october 1st. >> i'll tell you i'm not going to be having a dinner with you on october 1st. >> it's you and me. thank you. >> maybe i will. >> you can get a salad. >> you think i couldn't have a steak dinner. >> you apparently don't want a steak dinner. >> maybe i don't want to have it with you. president trump tweeting that
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everything from his chief of staff to james comey and hillary clinton. we're almost 300 days from the election. why is the president still thinking about hillary clinton? can't get that girl off your mind. as pressure mounts on his former campaign chair paul manafort. the latest on the russia investigation is next. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. midas has a lifetime guarantee on these parts. that's right. on things like struts, brakes, shocks. all kinds of automobile parts. [king] guaranteed for life. does he turn everything to gold? [kinbrakes. not everything. [kinbrakes. not everything. [kinstruts. luckily, he's not a dog person. [kinshocks. luckily, he's not a dog person. at midas we're always a touch better with limited lifetime guarantees on select parts, complimentary courtesy checks and more. book an appointment at midas.com take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours.
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you're watching quts velshi and the not so steak eating ruhle. notes from former campaign chairman paul manafort in a meeting with the russians during the june 9th meeting, he mentions political contributions near a reference to the rnc. it's illegal for foreigners to donate to american elections. a spoengzman said it is 100% false this included any discussion of donations from russian sources to either the trump campaign or republican party. >> in addition to that, the daily beast reports that special counsel bob mueller is teaming up with the irs. mueller will enlist the help of agents from the irs' criminal
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investigations unit, they are the tough guys, the focus is on financial crimes, including tax evasion and money laundering. they are the ones who actually have president frtrump's taxes. >> anybody thinking about not checking all of the right boxes on your tax return -- >> note to self-you don't want them in your kitchen. >> the wall street journal reports that president trump's lawyers met with and prepared memos for mueller. the main argument the president did not obstruct justice when he fired former fbi director james comey. told nbc news, we have great respect for the special counsel out of respect for his process, we will not be discussing incremental responses. they might want to tell president trump that when he goes after you know who on the twitter machine. joining us now is -- >> as he did this morning. >> former assistant attorney for civil rights division. what sticks out to you? >> i think you've got a massive investigation going on. >> you think? >> i don't think that's news but i think the elements of it are
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sort of interesting, you have different forms of power that the investigator has that people sometimes who i like to think of as watch the sopranos and think witnesses can avoid talking. they can be quiet and be loyal, they can -- that's not the way it works. when you have the fbi as a major resource, now the irs as a major investigative resource, the grand jury, which allows you to bring people in without an attorney, and if you lie in a grand jury, that's a real problem. that's perjury. if you are quiet and don't answer questions, you have to plead the fifth. if that leaks and sometimes it does -- doesn't seen have to leak from the grand jury itself but the individual who appears before the grand jury. as we know people who appear before a grand jury are not under an obligation to remain silent outside. they have a first amendment right to talk. just as a quick footnote, the investigator will say don't talk
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to anybody about what's going on. but that person will go out and talk to their friends and talk to their parents or children and talk to their lawyer. one thing leads to another and you guys are out there with somebody watching them and follow them around and say what happened in there. a lot of grand jury material on questions and answers leak legally, not illegally. >> there's something going on here with the idea that bob mueller has reportedly partnered up with eric schneiderman of new york. there are a lot of states that can claim standing in this matter of russia having interfered in the election because in the united states it's not a federal election, a lot of state presidential elections. interesting move given the pardon of joe arpaio. if the signal what was supposed to be to say, i'll pardon you if anything goes wrong, he can't pardon them if there's a state conviction. >> that's correct. anybody who would take that as a signal would be really foolish. that's not going to happen. you have in schneiderman,
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someone who is ambitious and not afraid to use the power of his office. >> one could argue he's also partisan though. does it help the argument that a hard core trumper would make this is about politics, not about the law? >> i think it does help that argument and argument that there's partisanship. let's look for one second at the good news that donald trump made face here. if as he says he has not committed collusion with the russians, and this investigation is not going to lead to people making things up, i don't believe, muller isn't that way, then donald trump will have the biggest gold plated clearance in american history. >> which is going to be very suitable to a lot of people, and perhaps for the future of the country. >> yeah, he'll be scrubbed to the bone. he'll go into 2020 with a totally transparent -- he'll be able to say -- >> on some level he should welcome it. if you've got nothing to hide, come have at it. >> there is gray zone between i
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didn't do anything wrong and i have clearly done something wrong that can lead to misunderstandings, indictments. he's got to worry about that, even if he didn't do something wrong. >> just to make sure we don't sell anybody's names here, there have been confirmations, no allegations that have been proved against michael flynn. >> or paul manafort or don, jr. >> there may not be. we're talking about leaks and ideas. >> i do remember over and over them saying no progress in russia, never, not even thinking about it. >> which tower? there was one that was build in new york and not in russia. >> so confusing. >> always great to see you, thank you. the impact of harvey is going to be felt nationwide this labor day weekend. it's a big driving weekend. aaa reports the national average for regular gas is 2$2.52.
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$0.07 from yesterday. many of you have been tweeting saying your increase has been higher, particularly in the south. here's why, the storm shut down part of a major pipeline that supplies the east coast a quarter of the nation's refineries have been knocked offline. in texas, people are facing long lines, and sometimes when they finally reach the pumps there's no gas left. tom costello joins us with more information on the pipeline. you have updates on when we might get the pipelines and refineries fixed? >> colonial pipeline, telling me in fact their pipeline from the louisiana/texas border, from the louisiana side east and up into the northeast is open they say. again, the colonial pipeline from the louisiana/texas border up to the east coast up to new york, new jersey is open. it's the texas side of that colonial pipeline that remains closed. that is something they want to continue working on. they're inspecting the infrastructure and hope to be
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back open completely on sunday. that said, a quarter of the nation's refineries are at the moment offline. it could take several weeks for them to get back online. the biggest problem area right now is port arthur, texas. so the infrastructure in that particular area has been dramatically affected. louisiana, not damaged at all according to the experts we talked to. lake charles now returning to normal. that's the colonial pipeline that was going from the louisiana/texas border. we're getting back up now supplies of oil from asia and also from europe. back to you. >> thank you so much. our own tom costello. the latest jobs report out this morning. and even though most of the data was collected before hurricane harvey hit, the u.s. labor department says it had no noticeable affect on the employment and unemployment data for the month of august. 156,000 jobs were created last month. the expectation was 180,000. the unemployment rate creeped up
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just a little bit, 1% to 4.4% -- >> .1%. >> excuse me. here's the thing, it didn't really do much. it's somewhat unchanged. for me what stands out though is wages remain relatively stagnant. we know we're at pretty much full employment here. what is going to tick those wages higher? earlier today the white house made the argument about the tax holiday getting companies to repatriate their dollars here. president obama also wanted to do that. he was blocked, he couldn't. the argument it's going to help the american worker, stock prices are going to go up. american workers don't own stock by and large. gone are the days that if you worked at a public company you were automatically awarded stock of that company. prices are going up, don't help anybody. >> it's not that big a deal. there's nothing to particularly cheer about in this jobs report.
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it's okay. the last two months were also revised a little lower. that's the story on jobs. we'll see what happens in the next month. we'll take a quick break. we'll be right back. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes!
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there is a lot in the news right now that the president might be looking at pulling back daca. the dreamer's act. >> i actually don't think he should do that. i believe that this is something that congress has to fix. >> okay, we don't know when this
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is going to happen. there have been talk that the president would announce the end of daca today. there is some reports it won't. paul ryan talking to wisconsin radio saying he doesn't think it should happen. >> orrin hatch said he didn't think it should happen. ceos are pulling together a coalition doesn't think it should happen. they don't believe the president is going to make an announcement on that today. it's a bit of a moving target. >> this is orrin hatch's comment you're seeing on the screen. a lot of legislators don't think it's a good idea. there are more than 800,000 people and many of them are in school, many are graduates. they can't commit a crime. they have to renew their permit every two years. >> we should make everyone have to do that in order to stay here. >> it's a good immigration system. part of the argument we just heard earlier he doesn't think it's legal because it's an executive order not a piece of legislation. >> he made the argument it's gang bangers in the program and it most certainly is not. there is a continuing argument
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about this. people are tweeting to me it's a vegan option, i'm not a vegan i just want sure i wanted a steak dinner. >> we have to stick to me? >> just not on saturday. but on saturday i will be on tv with you. >> we can have lunch. >> 12:30 eastern right after you're on tv. right now it's "andrea mitchell reports" with a special guest host -- >> chris jansing. >> i'm not sure allie is going to show up but i digress. stranded by the storm, what's left behind as the waters recede? 100,000 homes affected by harvey. an unknown number of people trapped and 32,000 others in shelters. >> if you stop, you'll just cry.

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