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tv   For the Record With Greta  MSNBC  September 18, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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good day but maybe should have listened to his own ad. >> we've lost that loving feeling. >> no dan. >> that is all for tonight. back tomorrow with more "mtp daily," and "the beat withg ari melber" is starting now rue. >> lawyers are paid to keep secrets but donald trump's legal team may do things really differently. nothing wrong with talking about business over lunch but managed to land strategy debate over the russia case on the front page of the "new york times," in article detailing turmoil among the team. this is a story about beef and fights among donald trump's top advisers but also about steak, ken vogel spotted trump's criminal lawyers chewing the fat at fancy washington steak house, steak goes for $60, wine list is
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2011 kaber net that runs $3,000. problem is terrible choice of the restaurant right next to the "new york times," how the beef turned public. some trump aides worried that colleagues are wearing a wire for mueller. cobb still fuming over leaks from ex-member of the team who tried to out of jared kushner. might be reference to lawyer no longer on the team and reporting on. may see in upcoming weeks between don mcgahn, who represents white house as institution, witness to the comey firing and trump's effort to out of the attorney general own russia. what matters is -- "new york
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times" suggesting they are more than criminal defense team, mcgahn has papers in safe and another person talking about being a spy. we don't know why they're worried about wearing a wire. if not committing crimes not that scary. may want to test executive power and foreign policy claims against having to hand over whatever is in the safe referenced in the article. amidst new reports that mueller is zeroing in on facebook over russia-backed ads there. suggesting not only thing he's investigating. good bet it's not over and as
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sean carter once said, all beef returned filet mignon. renato, you've had ideas about what might be in mcgahn's safe and wider significance of what mueller is up to. >> on twitter, one thing i discuss, possible thing that could be in the safe in the original letter penned by stephen miller at direction of president trump regarding the firing of james comey. reporting in multiple publications, particularly the "new york times," that there was draft of that letter with deletions and edits by mr. mcgahn as white house counsel and he included comments with his advice. that would be extraordinarily important evidence for robert mueller as part of the
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obstruction inquiry. white house counsel told him there are legal problems, would be in legal jeopardy if you went forward with the firing of comey for these reasons and he went ahead and did so, would be extremely powerful evidence. >> shelby, what do you think of the lunch time conversation? >> video reporter looking at picture and can't help but notice how casual they look. chatting over any topic. >> just hanging out. >> yeah. so it's so -- i guess crazy is a good word. so crazy you almost wonder if it was intentional, slip of the tongue this came up and couldn't help but talk about, regardless, not good for donald trump. but there are many reasons if you talk to legal experts about why don mcgahn would not want to release as much as he possibly could. this shows the divisions among trump's legal team about how to
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do it, some want to release all documents and get it done as fast as possible and others say executive branch has privileges and shouldn't set precedent releasing everything we have. >> and that goes to likely asymmetry of information. mueller knows a lot. other lawyers something, don mcgahn a lot about certain things like efforts to out of people over russia. when criminal counsel says get it out quick, cobb and others in the "times" article suggesting might be done quickly, don't know everything that don mcgahn knows. >> and extraordinary to see from leaks and indiscrete restaurant conversations coming out, seeing a legal team divided in strategy and in some cases at odds with each other. obviously all in service of ultimate client but don't agree or appears much like each other in many instances. now see bob mueller going into
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with facebook warrant, just another signal this investigation is really focusing -- don't know what evidence he has for that warrant but to have a warrant you have to persuade a judge there's probable cause of crime being committed. investigation appears to be heating up but lawyers at odds at what to do now. >> you make important point. any communications medium can be used in crime. pick up phone and do activist a -- activity and phone is part of it. but wonder if mueller is seeing facebook not as one-off device but something where crimes or conspiracies occurred over long period of time. what light can you shed on that shayne? >> we don't know, there are a couple of points.
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particularly senator warren on the senate intelligence committee hammering their suspicion that facebook played a role in targeting or fake news or inciting groups of people. targeting. in the warrant what mueller was able to get, information about how particular ads bought by russian organization, targeting information that may have been used in those ads. strikes me mueller is not on fishing expedition but might have -- again we don't know, but some more idea of the kind of crime committed. targeting and who bought the ads plays a central role in answering the question. >> that's the campaign side. renato on the lawyer side, what do you think about people worrying about wearing a wire, smacks of movie-inspired paranoia or not?
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and secondly, don mcgahn in the role he has, lunch thing is obviously just interesting because you see it all spill out into view from the fancy steak house. don't think the lunch they're having and things they're talking about are things that most americans come into contact with every day. but then this particular role of don mcgahn, the substance part, meat of the steak house discussion is, they describe mcgahn in negative terms. he has spies, holding stuff in the safe. prior to this he was seen as bureaucrat, not most interesting guy in washington. >> the chilling effect that government regulators had i think has been diminished significantly, why more people willing to speak out now in politics than willing before. >> backroom guy talking about getting regulations off
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elections. interesting whether that was good idea given everything we're talking about. but more to the point, don mcgahn in somewhat negative role by trump's counsel. >> what i find interesting is one member of the trump legal team keeping information from other members of the same legal team. i think it goes to the point just being made a moment ago, the deep divisions in the legal team. since i've left the government, i've worked on many defenses of government investigations, and when the government is coming after your client, the legal team needs to be united and needs to present a united front against the government. idea that mcgahn is withholding something from other members of the team so i would think a bad sign for that team. fact that is spilling over into those conversations, just underscores the deep divides they have.
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as for wearing wires, i think your instinct is right ari, mostly paranoia, goes to show the divisions they have. that is exactly what prosecutor like mueller wants to happen, what a prosecutor wants to encourage and exploit, divisions amongst folks their looking at. that's what generates cooperation and conflicts and people pointing fingers. that's what mueller wants. >> and then the growth. if you have kids and put the little mark on the wall to see how they grow. >> progress. >> without the mark they grow so fast you don't realize it. gradual. >> right. >> donald trump has grown in one way, today as of this time, 6:10 p.m. on the beat, not seen a twitter freakout about russia. still tweets terrible things, violent imagery yesterday. i don't think he gets cookie for improving twitter habit per se.
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but what does it tell you, compared to months ago with them, trying to seize on them and call them fake news. someone is getting him to stop tweeting about russia. >> trump is still being trump but not attacking the justice department. huge development. i think we need to really respect the fact he's not going after judges. bar was low but he's not trying to attack the media or mueller -- >> but respect is good for altruistic reason. >> lawyers are worried about obstruction of justice. if i were trump i wouldn't worry about legal team is divided but sloppily. talking in public about matters that are sensitive. if they can't agree and becomes a public dispute, back to square
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one with negative headlines and problems. wouldn't surprise me to see a tweet about that. >> this story was different than usual. thank you all, i appreciate it. still ahead, what investigators want to know about trump's business dealings, son and lawyer about to go before the senate. talk about senator amy cloeb better. and what happened to leftover money from the campaign, promised to give to charity. holding him to it. craving approval from the emmys and sean spicer claiming he regrets some sparring with the press. this is ari melber on msnbc. put down the phone. and if that's not enough, we'll look after your every cent. grab your wallet. access denied. and if that's still not enough to help you save... ooo i need these!
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what should i watch? show me sports. it's so fluffy! look at that fluffy unicorn! he's so fluffy i'm gonna die! your voice is awesome. the x1 voice remote. xfinity. the future of awesome. senate investigators are bearing down on the business side of the trump empire. trump lawyer and business aide michael cohen facing senators
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tomorrow. asking about the appeal for help with tower in moscow, a claim that contradicted donald trump's claims he was not in russia. could cajole, bully or threaten a lawsuit and brought that style to the campaign trail. >> ted cruz should be reprimanded by rnc, a whining baby who basically lied to the american public and rnc. >> i know mr. trump, stood by him shoulder to shoulder past decade. seen him in action. i truly believe he's not just my boss, mentor, inspiration and consider him to be like family. >> family that has had separation lately. recent interview cohen said his lawyer told him not to speak to trump during this phase of the
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investigation. i'm a guy who would take a bullet for trump. and described as sixth trump child. could be hearing from actual trump child. donald trump jr. will testify. already interviewed for five hours in closed session. only six senators were there, amy klobuchar from the judicial committee, thanks for being here. >> thanks ari, good to be on. in middle of voting but found a moment to talk to you. congratulations on your show. >> thanks for making time in the voting. when you look at all of this, what are lines of inquiry important inny you are view for donald trump jr., particularly in public. >> we didn't talk about the private interview, went on most of the day afterward. but for public hearing, i think the public will want to know
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exactly what happened at that meeting, why he wrote the e-mail back as you remember. when he got e-mail, hey we've got stuff on hillary clinton and he wrote back love it, how can we forget that? i think there will be a lot of questions about that. and as well as some of the points you get to about the business dealings. because you know that one of the things that people are going to want to hear about are what were the business dealings of the trump empire with the russian empire, with the country of russia. and how did that factor into these decisions with the campaign? >> right. with regard to the public side, trump junior offered a public version of his opening staff or whatever he told your staff privately saying to the extent russians had information considering the fitness, character or qualifications of a presidential candidate, i
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believed i should at least hear them out. also not the focus that we have today. what did you think about that? fact he considers himself a polit afact in the campaign? >> when you get a call, hear about things from another government, that's inching towards violations of election law. you can't have foreign government interfering in an election, and you can't use that information in some way. that's why i think you've seen this kind of backlash about the documents that came forward and why we think it's really important that he come before the public. equally important of course is bob mueller is allowed to finish his investigation and interview everyone that he needs to interview. that is the main focus right now, the investigation of what happened in the past. other thing for me, how we're going to handle this going
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forward. whatever happens, where the chips fall, is just as important as the fact that we need to pass my amendment, broad bipartisan support to get funding to state election equipment so that we don't have this happen again. 21 states, our intelligence agencies have found, were subject of hacks by russians. and everyone who looks at intelligence believes they're going to try again. so why we wouldn't put funding into backup paper ballots when the 2018 election is just over 400 days away is beyond me. yes, want to find out all of this information about the past, but also want to look to the future. that has to be a bipartisan effort. >> right. and your proposal to do that, sounds like a pretty normal way to do it. it's weird to some degree how these have become polarized as if partisan angle in having
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clean elections. hillary clinton on her book tour asked interesting query about all of this. take a listen. >> would you completely rule out questioning the legitimacy of this election if we learned that the russian interference in the election is even deeper than we know how. >> no. i would not. >> not rule it out. >> no i wouldn't rule it out. >> would you rule it out? and do you think this is an area where the results of the mueller investigation could ultimately beyond the criminal dimension raise questions about the outcome of the election and current government or would you rule it snoout? >> i'm a former prosecutor and don't do hypotheticals until i know the facts. i would want to get the facts. again, after bob mueller completes his investigation and we find out the conclusions of
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that, or more is uncovered in public committees and congress, that's the time to ask that question. i simply think i need to know the facts before i comment on that. right now our job in the senate is to allow this investigation to be completed and then to do our best to keep running the government while this is going on. and i think you have to do both things at once. >> senator, it's very old-fashioned of you to want the facts first. >> come on, some people do. i actually believe that facts exist and there are no such things as alternative facts. there you go. >> makes some sense. thanks for giving us time on tbt. >> turn to braush mcquaid, response to what the senator was saying and public side of this, hearing from trump associates with the meetings they took, lot
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of lawyers said shouldn't even be in meeting with foreign officials offering dirt on opponent. >> certainly, and think although donald trump jr. answered questions in private information, the public deserves opportunity to see and listen to him in public session. many questions about what happened in the meeting and role in president trump drafting the statement about the meeting. if he didn't know about the meeting, how could he have written the statement. lot of unanswered questions and i look forward to the hearing to find out more about it. >> and michael cohen part of it, walking through the figures, "vanity fair," same article. said he and trump forced break. all parties thought would be better to cease communication, when questioning occurs, no one can say did you speak to the
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president and what did you talk about? and this is on the heels of wanted to work in the administration and something unstated kept him out of the administration. there seems to be interesting wedge of someone very close to the president, attorney and businessperson, caught up to some degree but also pulled away from multiple reasons. >> i don't know what the reason s think the advice not to talk to president trump during this period of time is probably very sound. especially for someone who has said i will take a bullet for him, can see how that can be interpreted to mean they've been talking and getting stories straight to michael cohen can protect the president and figuratively take a bullet for him. >> on the business side, not that people might have made a lot of money in various ways that mueller is interested in right? what is potential federal legal hook that he would need to
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actually get in and use the business dealings in any future proceeding? >> we have this very interesting set of facts that michael cohen was involved in negotiating with the russians to build a trump tower in moscow and remember there was e-mail message from felix seder that said going to get to putin and talk about this. now goes from routine business deal to political matter reaching to very top of the government of russia. what are your interactions with them? as you heard senator clooklobuc talking about, it's illegal for foreign government to make contribution or anything of value in our elections. this is when donald trump is running for president. what robert mueller is looking for, was there in business relationships any discussion of assistance in the campaign, quid pro quo, a debt, leverage,
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favor? any connection there could be incredibly important in proving collusion with the russians. >> something at time they were vociferously denying. before i let you go, i see michigan, big house i think. my alma matter in the background makes us happy. go blue. >> thanks very much. go blue. sean spicer behind the podium again, in controversial appearance at emmys, what spicer is saying in the "new york times," big regret working for trump. and what happened to the leftover money that trump campaign promised to donate to charity? that's next. 99 a month for 36 m. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. just walk right in and pay zero dollars with most insurance.r.
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new reports that donald trump and mike pence may be misusing funds marked for charity. inaugural committee raises double obama's first
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inauguration but pledged to donate leftovers to charity but new ap report found nothing going to charity and some of the money misused for clearly noncharitable purposes. redecoration of the naval observatory where mike pence lives. it's one thing to run late on promised charity donations as trump has done repeatedly, quite another for trump and pence to raid the money they earmarked for charity and spend it on their own stuff. pence singing a different tune during the transition. >> i felt it was important to continue a tradition i've had throughout my life of stopping by and giving encouragement to ministries like this. it's a great time to remember that in giving we receive. hoosiers in big cities and small towns are taking time this week
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to reach out to those less fortunate with a charitable contribution. >> joining me, legal watchdog group american oversight, sued trump administration for failure to release documents and helped write kerry's presidential platform. good day to both. your view? >> this president does not deserve benefit of the doubt when it comes to charitable donations. you mentioned at top, long documented history of making big promises and not following through until intense amount of public scrutiny. campaign, fundraiser for veterans, wasn't until six months later after public pressure he cut a check from personal funds. this year when congress pressured trump organization to prove how it was going to donate foreign contributions to the trump hotel, came back and said, that sounds complicated, we
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don't think we can do it. trump inaugural needs to be held to account. would be a great topic for congressional investigations, unfortunately congress has abdicated that role these days. >> peter. >> allegations of illegality or misconduct, no, do i think should have followed through on promise, yes. charitable contributions not same as renovating houses. but other things that warrant a lot more attention. >> and we've covered some of the russia stuff in first two blocks. what is also important peter, there's always something else. most stories won't be top story. it's a tautology. yet, when you look at what seems to be a systematic style of breaking pledges and making misstatements and falsehoods, seems like larger action going
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on here to exhaust or normalize this thing. they didn't need to make the promise. for some reason made the promise and not going through on it and ap comes up with story and i don't think the response has to be let it go. >> i'm not saying that, question is do we have congressional inquiry on this or focus on other things in congress, think lot more important things to focus on frankly. with this administration, yeah, is trust an issue, yeah? would you think want to focus on things that increase accountability and fiduciary accountability, yeah. but again i'm worried about president speaking to u.n. general assembly tomorrow, north korea and you've covered that but can't be covered too much. three principals, first time this weekend talking about i'm not sure sanctions are going to work, war may be a possibility. i think that in the grand scheme
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of things can't be talked about enough because millions of lives could be at stake. that's my point. >> i hear that. austin, when you look at how these things work, ethics office vacated by walter shaw, popped up criticizing the trump administration. trying to reverse obama era rule to allow secret donations to legal defense fund. and they have legal authority, it's legal for them to make that call. when exposed and pressure, they pulled back from it. you're leading a group trying to pick battles with the trump administration, what is the role of what is right thing to focus on? does accountability make a difference? are you seeing areas where things are working when they have the call and power? >> i think that's exactly right. forcing people's focus on ethical issues, even what seem like minor transgressions, you
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talk about the larger issue. inaugural funds, don't forget the broader issue. original purpose of the funds donated to that event, buy access and influence with the administration and we've seen it pay off. you have the venezuelan oil company gave half a million dollars and omitted from the recent sanctions, dow chemical gave and one of the first things scott pruitt did at epa is overturn a long pending rule on pest crieds. these issues matter. want that long ago that candidate trump was running on cleaning up washington. i think it really matters to hold him to his promises. when he reaped the benefit of giving to charity, if he's not going to follow through, should reap the peeper cussions of that. >> thank you both.
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have you back as soon as possible. ahead, ask which side is facebook on? look at facing questions in the russia query. and emmys turn political, sean spicer talks about his big regret. how do you chase what you love
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>> thank you very much. >> donald trump had presenter duties at 2004 emmys, award itself did elude him. never won despite eight nominations for "the apprentice" but trump clearly coveted the glitz and approval from the emmys, seeking it from a-list stars but now highest position in the land he's their detested enemy and punchline. >> at long last here is your ebmy. >> thank trump for making black people number one on the most oppressed list. he's the reason i'm probably up here. >> we did have a whole story line about impeachment but abandoned that, worried that someone else might get to it first. >> was not all digs. some actors used moment to stand up for causes they feel trump
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has attacked. >> if this show has shown a light on some of the prejudice in our society, islam phobia, injustice in the justice system, maybe that's something. >> we shone a line on domestic abuse. it is -- it is a complicated, indi insidious disease, it exists far more than we allow ourselves to know. >> would be good if stopped there. hollywood being hollywood, there's no critique or consistency that won't yield in deferens to another perceived big name. this is the moment of normalization i'm about to show you that undercut any pretense of political message last night. >> is there anybody who could say how big the audience is? sean, do you know?
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[ cheers and applause ] >> this will be the largest audience to witness an emmys, period. both in person and around the world. >> sean spicer take the stage to tell jokes about when he used government-funded salary to mislead the nation. it's apparently part of a larger tour by spicer to get into elite society. he says he regrets that crowd size appearance at lectern. but if spicer is in on the joke, concedes he peddled falsehoods, working for president that peddled in falsehoods, may offer a crum of growth, but it's not accountability, reckoning for work where he pushed falsehoods about millions of americans
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voting illegally without evidence, defense of his boss with baseless attack on millions of imagined voter felons and many other examples i don't have time for right now. not to say that sean spicer can't laugh at himself or ask others to join in, but without accountability is it funny yet? liz from vox.com and -- president of the victory fund. liz? >> only thing that emmys did was raise sean spicer's speaking fee. this is going to happen because it normalized him. made him funny and cool, excused the awful things he did when he was working for the administration, which you've laid out in your intro. i was just -- even before he came out i was disappointed. thought that progressive hollywood, huge important to use the moment to talk about
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important issues. >> but he's a star, quote/unquote. to hollywood, that's fine. >> and comedy is sort of low-hanging fruit. colbert's monologue could have had so many opportunities but unfortunately didn't use it to call out donald trump and people in his administration. >> we're at place that culture which can make fun of itself, is normalizing behavior that's disgusting, lying to the american public is the problem. we're desensitized to highest office in the land literally telling falsehoods and lying and being proud of it. and this idea that we can laugh at it, to me it's a little bit deplorable. message of the night was really great but fact they're saying you know what, doesn't really matter if you don't tell the truth is problematic. >> and putting finger on something that's deeper problem in politics that is infecting
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culture. can we all get along with different ideologies, hopefully, that's pluralistic society. but get along with people lying -- turning pr guy from the trump administration into just another character in the entertainment landscape, loveable provider of quips flattens it. says politics is just sports and drama, undercuts the anti-trump stands made on the stage. >> and politics affects day-to-day lives when nicole kidman talks about domestic violence and something pervasive in our society and don't talk about it, really feeling we're drawing light to something impacting real americans.
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then turn politics into something sultry and just sport denigrates democracy. one of the things that makes me sad about where we are right now in our discourse. >> it is it because hollywood is more comfortable with fiction to begin with? >> role of the arts and bringing people together is interesting. there is something to that. will anybody who voted for donald trump going to be convinced otherwise after seeing this? just prove what conservatives think about hollywood, patting themselves on the back. diversity was better but still a sea and crowd of white people. even colbert. i'm a big fan but calling out african-americans, look at all the great black people, one of the best moments unscripted, dave chappelle saying he was
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surprised to count 11 black people in the crowd. true reflection on yes, hollywood we're great and talk about domestic violence and diversity but still have a lot of problems too. >> and shoutout there were historic firsts. lena wig amazing writer, director, producer. first black woman to actually win comedy writing for beautiful coming out portrayal of black lesbian in "master of none." >> and shout out chappell, when keeping it real goes wrong, a great segment. just doing shoutouts. >> wouldn't be your show if you couldn't do it. coming up, why mueller is zroeg in on facebook. roing in o.
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in the russia investigation, bob mueller is now zeroing in on key tools like factual basis and it looks like he's using a subpoena or warrant to make
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facebook cough up more than it gave congress. it looked like facebook was used for some kind of crime. but facebook says it's neutral, it's a platform for people to communicate and share. but it's not. there's nothing neutral about spreading lies. neutrality is facebook's first offense with how it pummelled users with pro-trump information. a false claim than fbi agent tied to clinton was found dead, that never happened. and the most popular was the false claim the pope endorsed trump. those are false stories that spread like wild fire on facebook before people voted. they didn't spread as fan fiction or onion style jokes
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they spread through a fraud that they were real. that facebook packages their articles like any other kind of fake news stories. they got more attention than actual news as the election proe approached. after that election the president called out fake news. not that one. this one. >> in an age where there's so much active misinformation and it's packaged very well and it looks like the same when you see it on a a facebook page. we can lose so much of what we've gained in terms of the kind of democratic freedoms and market based prosperity we've come to take for granted. >> president obama was worried lies were taken seriously. mark zuckerberg's reaction was
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to say it was, quote, crazy. it was crazy to blame facebook for fake news. adding facebook gave people information through the social system that's more diverse than old news systems. note his tricky use of the word diversity. yes, diversity of opinions and ideas is good. diversity, though, is not a concept that applies to facts. you can't have a diverse set of facts whether the pope endorsed trump. he didn't. fake article that is claim he did endorse trump they're false. in business they're called a fraud, mr. zuckerberg on facebook they're clicks. that was in november. but after pressure facebook changed its tune announcing it will allow fact checks. so maybe facebook will change
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under pressure for the current con troe verse si. so far facebook won't tell us, its own users, whether they were targeted by russians or whether they're release the few. so they don't think they owe americans any information about that. mark zuckerberg risks sounding like a combination of eke fax and alex jones here. we know the russian effort online was basically a type of political cat fishing creating a fake online profile to fake another person. mtv showed how people do it to trick people into a relation, which is painful. political cat fishing may not be tailored but it hits this media,
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this thin line between verified and fake. and russia is still doing it. this is today, according to to a russian tracker for the alliance securing democracy. we need to know more about this. facebook and other social media companies have obligations not only to the special counsel and congress but to the public at large who put so much of our lives and privacy into these sites. during the cold war, reagan rain the add po sitting russian as that bear on the horizon. >> others don't see it at all, isn't it smart to be as strong as the bear, if there is a bear. >> if there is a bear. every day we learn more of russian meddling and we know
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welcome back to the beat. we were talking about some key questions for facebook and mark zuckerberg. but we're not above telling you to check out our facebook page which is still in good working order there. or you can check us out on twitter or as many of you are
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doing, because i read them, you can e-mail me. that does it for our show tonight on "the beat" and up next is "hardball" with chris matthews. caught on camera, let's play "hardball." good evening i'm chris matthews in washington in an exclusive report in the new york times we learned that it's taking on the president's legal team. we learned there was an ongoing debate in the west wing. we

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