tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 19, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PDT
as always for making time for us, especially on this monday night. that is our broadcast for this evening. and our thanks to you for being with us as we start off a new week around here. goot night for all >> breaking news tonight on special counsel robert mueller's case against paul manafort, the president's one time campaign shareman. according to the "new york times" when federal agents executed a search warrant on his virginia home, two months ago, the special counsel followed up with a warning. prosecutors told manafort they plan to indict him, said two people close to the investigation. that's one of the tactics employed by mueller. which reported they picked the locks on his front door, took binders, even photographed the
what do you make of that? >> there's two possibilities one is in the early stages of the special council investigation or the fbi investigation before there was a special council, we don't know that, that prosecutors or investigators tried to work with manafort and he rebuffed any of those efforts. we don't know, but i think that's a possibility. so then if they passed that, now he's in a very adversarial position. the second piece i know some
other observers think the execution of the search warrant was extraordinary, i think there's a lot of aspects in the paul manafort investigation that feel similar to a very large public corruption investigation, a very large criminal enterprise investigation. and so, i don't think that the tactics that are being used feel that unusual for big enterprise criminal white collar investigations. >> how much, matt, do you think the psychology matters in terms of how the various players throughout both the trump campaign in its previous it rations, the current administrations are making calculations about how to act. >> i think it's a big part of it. bob mueller has been sending clear messages to everyone involved. which is i'm coming as aggressively as i can and you better cooperate or you'll find yourself in a grand jury or agents in your house.
raids are usually very public events and neighbors call reporters and you see them show up instantly. i'm sure muller's team expected that to become news quickly. it sends a signal to everyone involved look i am conducting one of the most serious investigations in the history of the justice department if you have any -- if you're paul manafort or mike flynn, if you're anyone else for example who has been talking to paul manafort and now knows your conversation has been intercepted, you need to talk to the special council and cut a deal. >> kerry, i want you to weigh in on this somewhat bizarre story that was published earlier by the new york times in which ty cobb, who is an outside lawyer is talking to john dowd, in which the two of them are arguing and wrestling over the fight he's having with white
house counsel don mcgahn about how cooperative to be and how to navigate this legal thicket and they're having this conversation loudly in a restaurant with a reporter listening in. >> it's unbelievable for any washington lawyer to think that that type of conversation, when your client is the president of the united states and you're discussing it at a d.c. steak house. so that aspect aside, i think what the results of that conversation as they've been reported reveal, is that this is a broken legal team. and the difficulty is lawyering requires trust. it requires trust between the client and the lawyers. it requires trust amongst the lawyers and the team themselves. and if there is not trust between those different components, the legal team can't function effectively. >> that's a great point. kerry and matt, thank you both. >> thank you.
we are following two late breaking stories tonight on the russia investigation. a report that prosecutors told paul manafort they plan to indict him, according to two people close to the investigation. and a report that u.s. investigators obtained court orders to wiretap manafort before and after the election under the fisa statute. the president's lawyers are feeling the pressure and it's making them par enjoyed and sloppy. last week two of his attorneys met for lunch at a d.c. steak house and discussed the probe, a conversation that was overheard by new york times reporter ken vogel. he heard a contention behind the
scenes feud on how much to cooperate with the counsel. the white house counsel's office is being conservative. referring to mcgahn, he has documents locked in a safe. discussing the white house legal team cobb told dowd, i've got some reservations about one of them. colleagues may be wearing a wire to record conversations for mueller. joined now by two reporters who are well sourced inside this white house. >> olivia, have you heard -- i mean, as someone who reports on these folks every day, are you getting the palpable paranoia
off the folks as well. >> certainly. that's been there since the beginning. it was there during the campaign with what was now a different group of people. i cannot overstate the level of incompetence here for members of the president's legal team to very loudly discuss these things near the "new york times" at a restaurant a few doors down from the "new york times" or any restaurant in washington loudly. that's something if you know how things work you don't do. so it's difficult to overstate how incompetent this entire operation seems to be right now and a difficult time for the president. it couldn't go worse when it comes to this story right now for this white house. >> i can't quite put my head around the incompetence here because these are people in other contexts are very good attorneys don mcgahn who's specialty is election law.
i don't quite get if there's some vortex of incompetence when you get within an orbit of it in the white house you start acting like that. >> there might be something to that theory. the senior trump aids in the white house who i've been talking with and messaging with earlier today and yesterday regarding the new york times story regarding what mr. dowd and mr. cobb were doing. one of them likened it to me by having the president be respected by a side of the highway mall lawyer. having said that, this white house staff, or anybody working in the white house right now, accusing this legal team of being rather jv might want to the look in the mirror as you were pointing out earlier. like people and senior officials around president trump being incompetent isn't exactly breaking news.
>> there's also the added layer of the fact that now everybody -- everyone is lawyered up, including white house counsel, don mcgahn who has his own lawyer for this inquest, you have layers of legal representation. and there is this kind of prisoner's dilemma kind of dynamic you have to imagine that people have the interest of the president of the united states, who they work for, the executive branch in a constitutional sense but their own interest in terms of how they're going to come out in this. >> certainly. i think the latter probably matters a lot to most of the people in the white house, more than any other point. there's a type of person that works for donald trump they tend to be out for themselves, further their own careers, further their own reputations, and i think we can expect that's one of the main concerns right now for most of the people surrounding the president. but i mean, i cannot think of something less attractive to donald trump than having to deal with more of this story this
week. they're trying to hard to get something, anything done. and instead we're being side tracked again by russia and news that perhaps indictments are going to be coming. this is not how they wanted to spend the first year, certainly, and the first couple months of this administration, but they are. and it doesn't look like it's going away anymore soon. and paul manafort, as was reported by the daily beast, paul manafort was still advising trump through the transition. as we get deeper into the investigation, as it broadens its scope we're going to see that habit that donald trump has of keeping people with problematic things around him is going to be detrimental. >> the posture of the folks in the white house around this investigation, i can see it
going a number of different ways. one is okay this is a witch hunt there's nothing there we'll be fine. it's going to blow over. the other is, the shoe is going to drop any day and someone is going to show up at my condo and pick the locks. how are people thinking. >> in terms of public, it's the former. in terms of of what's going on in their own heads and hearts is the latter. olivia brought up paul manafort earlier. he's an interesting case in terms of trump's inner circle and white house officials working there because they greatly resent mr. manafort and many of them blame, fairly or unfairly, for the widening scope of the investigation into the finances of the president and his family. they kind of consider mr. manafort a patient zero in that sense. and at the same time, even though he headed the campaign
for several months, there was never a feeling with trump's family and closest advisors, that paul manafort was one of them so they would throe him under the bus harder than they are right now if they knew what he knew. but there is the notion of what if manafort snitches? and the problem is they don't know what he would be snitching about. >> that's a great point. they're ready to deliver him up but don't know what he knows. and maybe the case that people never thought of him as the inner circle but the president himself kept talking to the guy, and lord knows what they talked about and what is on the transcripts of the intercepts apparently being surveilled by the u.s. government. >> the fact is no matter how his family or close advisors feel about any individual, donald trump is going to do what donald trump wants to do. so he will continue to speak to people who have been a problem for him.
he will continue to call them late at night and ask what do you think of this or what do you think of this person? i think that's going to be a problem with paul manafort, it might be a problem with other people implicated in this investigation as well. >> all right. thank you, both. tonight senate republicans again trying to push replace and repeal obamacare while no one is paying attention, and this time they might be able to do it. senator brian schatz says the new bill is worse than the one that fails and he joins me ahead.
of former officer jason stockley who killed andrew smith. prosecutors alleged stockley planted a gun inside his vehicle. yesterday a group that the mayor described as agitators sprayed chemicals at police, leading them to make arrests. officers in riot gears gathered alongside a city boulevard were chanting, whose street, our streets. this morning peaceful protesters were back on the streets. students walking out of at least two high schools as protesters locked arms and marched silently to city hall. >> as long as we're still dieing in the streets, as long as the system disproportionately
affects minorities, we'll be here. >> today business owners were boarding up business out of fears. at this hour the protests are peaceful. we'll continue to monitor the scene throughout the hour. te? not for me, for you. aveeno® positively radiant 60 second in-shower facial. works with steam to reveal glowing skin in just one minute. aveeno® naturally beautiful results®
two weeks. even the congressional budget office says it won't have enough time to figure out what would happen if the graham-cassidy bill were put into law for the expected vote next week. republicans need to hit that september 30th deadline in order to pass on a straight majority vote without a filibuster and no time for discussion or hearings. nevertheless, the bill is showing signs of momentum among republicans. senator john mccain who provided the dramatic thumbs down for the last act. said the support of his state's governor would be key to his support of this legislation. well, the arizona governor may have given him what he needs to vote for the bill tweeting saying he is okay with it. senator brian schatz of hawaii
tweeting today saying what's crazy is this bill is much more harmful than the skinny repeal. he joins me now. explain what you mean when you say this was worse than the skinny repeal which is what they were trying to pass when john mccain gave the thumbs down? >> there were two or four bills over the last few months that all did awful things. but in graham cassidy they do all the awful things. it lifts the prohibition on charging people more as they get older. it lift it is prohibition on charging more than 15% as an administrative expense as opposed to for health care. and it guts medicaid as we know
it and eliminates medicaid expansion and defunds planned parenthood. most of the bills we looked at did about two thirds of that in various it rations. this is a bill that decided to do all of that in one radical piece of legislation. and what is scary is they are pretty close. depends who you ask, but they're certainly very close to enacting this into law, we are going to need people who were with us in this fight over the last six to eight months to fire up those phone lines, get online, knock on doors at district offices and make sure that we kill this thing again. but i have to say, i was trying not to sound the alarm until it was absolutely necessary. and now we are really in an extreme situation. we have to try to kill this bill in the next ten days. >> there's something sort of bonkers going on, which has been the case every time they try to
do this. it's the case in the house and senate where there's no regular order, no committee hearings, none of that. it's just like keep it closely held and then break in like it's a heist of a bank and see if you can get in and get out. they don't have enough time -- aim correct on this? they've given it to the cbo to score, for would premiums go up, people to lose coverage, and there's not enough time for the cbo to give the full score, is that correct? >> that's right the cbo got back to us and said the only thing they can do is assess the fiscal impact of the legislation. so they will know if there's any, quote, savings. remember savings comes out of the hide of the american people so let's be careful using the term savings. but they said they need a couple weeks to analyze the impact this bill will have on coverage in everyone's home state.
so we have people are going to vote yes or no on a piece of legislation to restructure one fifth to one sixth of the american economy to probably throe 20 to 30 million off of their health care. but we're not going to know the impacts until after we vote. what is so shocking to me is so many people talk about the regular order. and that means the senate acts like a senate. it has hearings, we talk to experts, we have a proper debate. now we're not going to listen to the impact of the bill. but here's what we know, because it has the elements of the previous bills that had awful cbo bills 23 off coverage, 26 million, 22 million, this will be as bad if not worse of that. the final point, i saw you make it on twitter. i think we will have anywhere by rule 90 seconds to two minutes of debate on this legislation. that is an abomination. that is legislative malpractice.
>> senate procedure can be arcane and it is in this case because you're dealing with reconciliation. by rule, i want people to understand this, there are essentially 90 seconds. seconds. everyone clock that in your head. there's 90 seconds of debate left for this entire legislation before the senate. is that accurate? >> that's accurate. there's no reason to do it this way. i think that the really encouraging thing that happened over the last month, which was as a result of john mccain's heroic moment on the floor is that the chairman of the labor and pekss committee and the top democrat on that committee have been working together. that's what people wanted to see all along. they are blowing this thing up so they can shove it down the american people's throat. it's because they have no political wins this year. so they're going to inflict pain
thing one tonight, former white house press secretary sean spicer made a surprise appearance at the emmy awards where he joked about presenting to the largest emmy audience ever. today spicer told the "new york times" he regrets those remarks over the crowds. although the crowd size was not unprecedented, the $107 million raised for the ceremony, double barrack obama's record in 2009.
the inaugural committee had committed to give whatever was left over at the end of it to charity. according to investigation by the associated press, the group has helped to pay to redecorate the white house and the vice president's residence in washington, but did not donate the money. where did the rest of the money go? that's thing two in 60 seconds. hey allergy muddlers
are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool? try zyrtec® it's starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. so president donald trump, raised a record $107 million for the festivities surrounding his swearing in ceremony back in january and they promised the money left over would go to charity. but the charitable donations would exceed any previous inauguration. yet eight months later nothing has gone to charity according to the associated press. meanwhile leaders of previous inaugurations started giving it away right away. so where did the money go?
yet another extremely dangerous hurricane, maria, is now on bath to make a direct hit on areas battered by hurricane irma. and this new storm just became a category 5 according to the national hurricane center. it upgraded only hours after it became a category 4 is expected to remain a hurricane for the next five days on a trajectory for puerto rico and the virgin
islands. if it makes landfall in puerto rico it would be the first category 4 or 5 hurricane to do so in more than 85 years. high winds and excessive storm surge could be an issue when it makes landfall. it was a little more than a week ago that puerto rico was spared the worst, but still managed to cause widespread power outages. many caribbean islands were absolutely devastated by hurricane irma and hardly in a position at this point to sustain another direct hit. we'll watch the storm in the days to come. next, president trump talks to north korea following another missile launch. we'll discuss the threats with whitney sherman and the highest ranked members after this break.
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president trump today made his first appearance in new york where he criticized the u.n. for excessive bureaucracy and mismanagement. albeit in farless harsh tones than he spoke about the group on the campaign trail. >> which brings me to my next point, the utter weakness and incompetence of the united nations. the united nations is is not a friend of democracy.
it's not a friend of freedom. it's not a friend even to the united states of america whereas you know, it has it's home. >> over the weekend, the president taunted the leader of nuclear armed north korea kim jong-un tweeting i spoke with president moon of south korea last night and asked how rocket man is doing. long gas lines forming in north korea. too bad. that was followed by nikki haley suggesting the u.s. ran out of diplomatic options dealing with the rogue nation. >> we have pretty much exhausted all the things we could do with the security counsel at this point. i said yesterday i'm perfectly happy taking this to general mattias because he had plenty of military options. >> tomorrow the president will make the first remarks with north korean diplomats sitting front and center for the speech. with me now, someone who knows a lot about both diplomacy and north korea. wendy sherman serving for political fairs, the state department and crucially special advisor to president clinton and
policy coordinator on north korea. i want to start on north korea. >> sure. >> let's -- well, let's start with the tweet which was strange for a variety of reasons but one of the most concerning things to me is it seemed to show the president's mental model of the north korean society was completely wrong. the idea that there would be long gas lines just seemed bizarre. what did you make of that? >> well, you know, i think it's very typical of the kinds of things we hear from the president unfortunately, which is really to sort of be dismissive of the seriousness of who what is going on in the world. i don't think there are long gas lines forming in north korea because quite frankly there aren't thousands and millions of cars traveling the streets of north korea. >> right. yeah. here is the dynamic that i'd like you to sort of ill limb -- illuminate. the closest the u.s. came, you were there with madeleine al bright.
>> indeed. >> president clinton before the election in 2000. right now you have this sort of threat and counter threat rashing up between the two nations. what is your read on where this is headed and what we should be doing to move it maybe in another direction? >> well, i certainly think there is a strategy here at the united nations general assembly to say to everybody we might move to military action so they should do more. this is a little difficult because neither president putin or president of china but their delegations are. i think some of the orchestration in the language is to say we're tough, we're serious. the senate just increased the defense department tremendously. secretary mattias is quoted as saying there are options that wouldn't devastate seoul. this is to ratchet up pressure. i'm all for ratcheting up pressure but in a very
disciplined whole of government way. it's not clear to me that we have that whole of government strategy, which uses the threat of force and service of diplomacy and quite frankly, as you have discussed on this program before, chris, we don't have a lot of diplomacy going on because we don't have ambassadors in positions and we don't have a team at the state department and secretary tillerson is sometimes in the picture and sometimes out of the picture. and that is very concerning when you have to do something that is this complex and this difficult. >> so here is the question i feel like i don't understand as someone watching all this play out, which is can north korea successfully be co-horsed through pressure into abandoning the nuclear weapons program? it seems that's the fundamental question, right? at one level to them they view it as essentially a matter of the regime's survival they hold on to them and pressure won't help or maybe they will make some calculations at a certain point, the pressure is great enough and hurts them enough
they can move on to a different track. which of those do you think it is? >> i think everybody needs to understand sanctions never stop a country from their bad behavior. what sanctions are meant to do is to force a choice about coming to the negotiating table in seriousness. when we began negotiations with iran and europeans did in 2006. they had 164 centrifuge. by the time administration got into deep negotiations, they had 19,000. so these sanctions, which should be ratcheted up need a team to enforce them all over the world. it will take a little time. they will not stop iran's program -- sorry, they are not stop -- they didn't stop iran's program. they won't stop north korea's program. the idea is to put pressure on them in the negotiating table but this is a much, much tougher problem than even iran was. >> excellent point.
ambassador wendy sherman who has been working on these issues for quite sometime. thanks for being with me. >> thank you, chris. >> that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. mueller investigation. the raid on paul manafort's house and the indictment warning from prosecutors to the former trump campaign chair. plus, a late breaking urgent and fast exploding storm, hurricane maria suddenly a 5. and there's a state of emergency in puerto rico. we'll get a live update. and after trashing the u.n. for years, down to its decor, donald trump addresses the general assembly hours from now as they say welcome to our world, as "the 11th hour" gets underway. on a monday evening as we start a new week, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. day 242 of the trump administration.