tv For the Record With Greta MSNBC September 19, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
nations. >> rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself. and for his regime. >> the term rocket man was used back in 2006 by the economist to describe kim jong-un's father of because senior aide test msnbc that president trump's use of the phrase was all him. that he doesn't need any help in the branding department. so true. that's all for tonight. "the beat" withari melber starts right now. you have to 3 away from me. i lost the reins at the top of the show and it is a train wreck. >> you know what it says in rocket man of the. >> no. enlighten me. >> he says i'm not the man they think i am back hole of that going into outer space can really change your perspective on things. >> thank you. it's fascinating that you just dropped that of the. >> you dropped it. >> i think if we're going to do this, we have to do fish lyrics at each other.
you've been to a concert. >> i respectfully decline. he know you're busy balancing. a lot of anchoring and your book tour. >> thank you. er it's in book stores now. >> we turn to a bit of a more serious topic. paul manafort responds. he is now punching back after reports that he was allegedly wiretapped before and after the election. here is a new statement just now into our newsroom from manafort's spokesman. he said if true, it is a felony to reveal the existence of a fisa warrant regardless of the fact no charges ever emerged. the doj's inspector general she immediately conduct an investigation into these leaks, which i'll explain, and to examine the motivations behind a preef administration's effort to surveil a political point. manafort also demanding right now that if there are
transcripts, the doj should release them now. the context, these alleged wire attempts were continuing into this year when manafort was flown to speak he with president trump. unclear if president trump was picked up on that surveillance and that's not all. the other bombshell story reverb celebrating saying after that early morning raid in july, mueller's team informed manafort they did plan to indict him. meanwhile, another top aide today is laying out a public defense. this is new. michael cohn, who asked the kremlin for help with a trump business project in moscow in 2016, was out there in the senate today, denying that either he or trump colluded with the russians and he got specific. let me explain. he said he was never paid by the russians or anyone else to hack or interfere with the election. to hack computers or specifically, he denied creating fake news stories to assist the
campaign. all of that from cohn's opening statement to senate investigators which we would normally be reporting on on a day like this. but this was no normal day. after cohn emerged from behind closed doors for just over an hour, you see him in the senate hart office building, something weird happened. >> the committee has chosen to postpone today's meeting. >> it's a question you'll have to ask -- >> what did your request to postpone is this was it your request to postpone? >> what were you doing -- >> it was a request by the senate intelligence to postpone and i'll be back and i'll look forward to getting all the information. >> that body slang what it looks like when one lawyer is trying to get his client, another lawyer, to not speak to the press, although we lawyers
sometimes can't stop speaking. here's what's important. the senate leaders did later say cohn should not have released the statement i just read to you and they want him to testify in public on october 25th. they are treating this as a breach. so as these investigations all close in, we are seeing many strong reactions. cohn breaking his agreement the senate investigators. that's according to the sxharm ranking member from both parties and then manafort, pushing back on this allegation that he was targeted in a wiretap and suggesting if he was, this may raise the specter of obama administration political retribution. i'm lucky to say we have a great panel to digest all of this. hallie jackson has been covering this for some time. and from the "washington post," a veteran of many of the issues i just mentioned. i want to start with you, nick on, this brand new manafort statement. in fairness to paul manafort,
ending up on surveillance doesn't mean he did anything wrong. it doesn't saying formal confirmation of this account and i'll have a bigger lead later in the show. there are multiple ways to end up on a surveillance string. how do you see this reference to political opponents? >> i think they went into a federal judge with probable cause. a very detailed affidavit that set out why they want to put the wiretap on his phone. they followed the law. the judge directed this wiretap and they were able to do it again later on after they had stopped it. these affidavits are not something that's a piece of paper. it can go for 30, 40, 50 pages. >> what about paul manafort's
saying that it isn't in itself a crime. >> it can be a crime and he wouldn't know one way or the other, to tell you the truthful whether or not he had been the subject of such a surveillance. so this whole thing could be a lot of nothing. on the other hand, he has been told he'll be indicted. >> right. according to the target reporting. and there's been a lot of adjectives thrown around. red hot, high stakes, shock and awe. i don't know that those are that helpful for understanding the investigation. i think some of the leaks we're seeing suggest the stage we're in. a former counsel says mueller's investigation has reached a critical stage. he may start making allegations in public. the idea that these aren't just leaks if people touched by it but they're going somewhere. >> mueller has over the last several months not only amassed
a large staff of investigators who are looking into, what we can tell, what we can they're looking at as investigators, potential for financial crimes forks shenanigans in past business deals and any nexus to russia. given the length of time that those investigators have been working and what we're seeing happening with manafort, it is logical to assume that mueller is getting close to the point when he either brings an indictment or threatens an indictment get something else he wants. one thing about fisaer though. it is a panel of judges. it is a secret court of federal judges who to have review these qu requests before they grant a fisa warranter which would lead to the wiretap. it has to involve a foreign the sub. if in fact manafort was the subject of a fisa warrant that
allowed the wiretap, it is because they would have thought, or had probable cause to think that he was doing something nefarious with a foreign power, foreign business person, foreign something. or they wouldn't have been before fisa at all. >> so paul manafort's statement that came outdoes a couple of things. when you look at the discussion of threatening an indictment, there has been a lot of talk that that is exactly what happened to see who will flip. what will they say and how much will they say? all of that as it relates to manafort and mike flynn is speculation but it is a factor that we'll be looking at. here's what the spokesperson did. he threw all that shiny object and said this could be a crime. he's right. it could be a felony. the other part is he said, hey, release it all. i call on the department of justice. my client did nothing wrong. that's never going to happen. they have nothing to lose by
coming out and saying this. >> hold on. you're not suggesting that these lawyers for paul manafort would make a demand upon the government about which they know government cannot comply. >> i'm will just saying. from a p.r. perspective, did it what it needed to do. do you know what it didn't do? it didn't say anything at all about the veracity of it. >> i say this a lot and people think i'm being annoying. it is true to people caught up in an investigation, being caught up on surveillance, or going before the grand jury, doesn't mean anything negative. we say that a lot. the response has not been to speak publicly to this report about the targeting or about whether he is facing an indictment threat or an indication of being a target. it is much more to throw it back at them and say maybe you should be under the gun. meanwhile the politics of this, you were all over 2016 campaign trail, was paul manafort the most important bern these high
level contacts or was he some guy that no one can remember? i want to show donald trump at the convention when he did seem to know who paurt was. rnc convention, donald trump. >> paul manafort has done an amazing job. he's here someplace. where is he he? paul manafort. oh, good. you made it. paul manafort has done a fantastic he -- and all of paul's people. we really do. we have a great staff of talented people. a great staff. >> is that the truth? or is at this time later sean spicer depend this was a random volunteer? >> the implication that he had nothing to do with the campaign. that is not the case. you can say all you want after the case, that paul manafort wasn't involved. he came in. remember the context of when he came in. thisser moment were the never trump drum beaters were sounding
the alarm. maybe there is a chance. covering the primaries, the kasich will do something. so paul manafort was brought in to try to work the room and was ended up elevated to there position of importance inside the campaign. he was the de facto campaign manager until all this russian stuff. all these people started trickling out and they acknowledged, when he stepped back, he said i don't want it to be about me. then candidate donald trump and his campaign and what he's pushing for. the bottom line is yes, he was involved. you might hear sean spicer say no, he was just a side line player. that is noise. that's not the case. >> he was the turn-around artist. he was supposed to fix the campaign. trump kept doing stuff every day that made his own situation worse. degs were peeling off. supporters were peeling off. >> they weren't a fan of lewandowski. and here's this guy, this
experienced republican hand who had spent the last several years doing stuff that people were unsure about. involving foreign clients. but his back ground was as somebody who understood the delegate process, the convention ruse and he was supposed to fix things. >> he was also the personer at the trump tower. he was there with don jr., with all the russians when they were supposed the show up with aull these documents that incriminated hillary clinton. so he was a key person in this whole russian situation, as well as the campaign. >> and why was he working for free for thor trump campaign? >> because it served his interests? when perhaps charitable explanation, and one that you had heard from folks at the time. he was a guy who was not a player in politics at the moment. he had been around a long will type before. he was considered the guy from the old guard coming back.
when he came back, people said, oh, him? pulled up the photo albums from back in the day. if you're going to look at it to reobtain some relevancy. make some connections. he had a consulting firm. not the worst thing in the world to get yourself attached to a guy heading to the rnc. >> he was brought in by roger stone. he was the individual that put him in there as campaign manager. he recommended him to donald trump. >> what is the investigative significance of the ongoing conversations between manafort and trump? reportedly during long after he vacated the campaign. >> the significance is donald trump could have put himself in the soup by saying something incriminating. >> do you think it's fobl president is on a tape somewhere? he set up the times. do you think it's possible president donald trump, not during the campaign but after the election, could be on a tape that mueller has? >> what were they talking about? manafort presumably had nothing
to do with the president at that point. it was at that point that he he was saying, this guy had nothing to do with me or the campaign. >> sometimes we say obvious things but there have been a lot of reports that paul manafort has not come out and addressed. he has been a fairly quiet part of it. thank you so much. how does the fbi do this secret surveillance? i have a legal breakdown. i'll walk it through for all of you after the break. and does there new republican health care bill pass the so-called kimmel test? the late night host saying he will weigh in. i'll have all that plus the world's reaction to the debut at the u.n. and those comments about destroying north korea. america's beverage companies have come together to bring you more ways to help reduce calories from sugar.
with more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all, smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels, and signs reminding everyone to think balance before choosing their beverages. we know you care about reducing the sugar in your family's diet, and we're working to support your efforts. more beverage choices. smaller portions. less sugar. balanceus.org.
and life's beautiful moments.ns get between you flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything. not necessarily after 3 toddlers with boundless energy. but lower back pain won't stop him from keeping up. because at a dr. scholl's kiosk he got a recommendation for our best custom fit orthotic to relieve his foot, knee, or lower back pain, from being on his feet. by reducing shock and stress on his body with every step. so look out world, dad's taking charge. dr. scholl's. born to move.
cnn report that the trump aides, it has an explosive pkt seengt evidence suggestions that manafort encouraged russians to help the trump campaign of that's a big claim that they were encouraging russian meddling. what's the evidence? let's break down long legal road that may have led to a wiretap of paul manafort. reportedly they began looking at him in 2014 scrutinizing his works in ukraine including with russia friendly operatives. that inquiry was discontinued last year with no charges for a lack of evidence. paul manafort was tapped again in early 2017.
manafort was fired in 2016, august of that year, and he continued operations with donald trump before and after the election. quote, they kept talking by phone until lawyers for the president and manafort insisted that they stop. so that is the background. legally, how do one of these wire attempts come about? let me walk you through it. the fbi can ask the doj to make a wiretap request. then doj decides if it has a legal case for a warrant and for these times of foreign warrants. it goes to a special secret surveillance court. if anything out of that court warrant is used, it becomes lawful evidence. it can go into any court case. the question of whether there's evidence. now, manafort is not only confirming this but says if there is any evidence, he is asking for it to be immediately
released. i want to ask you, if you get a warrant to do it hour, does this work and what do you get? >> it has to be limited to an individual and a scope. meaning whenever the application goes forward, you can't collect information on everything. even if it is collected, it needs to be minimized. anything that isn't pertaining to the actual investigation has to be narrowed down and minimized to protect any innocent people that come in or neglect outsi anything outside the scope. then it goes to dedicated communication devices that are confirpd to be with that person or known to be connected to that person. e-mail addresses, phone newspapers, things like that. that's is done through whatever the provider of that communication service is.
there's a key thing to remember. bits stait is state sponsors of espionage. it does not mean they are involved in any criminal activity. and important to know in this story is that this was picked up, it sounds like, overseas. there was some sort of intercept that must have mentioned manafort. so they may have been trying on pull this together. not just to see, was he an agent but to see if there's any connection or anything of value related to it. so i think people need to be careful not to work too far down the road when we don't blank the scope of it was. >> and you're speaking to an important point of the we've cited reporting by cnn that we've not confirmed about the notion of manafort being picked up in this surveillance. one possibility is that he was
specific will you targeted. and people can get picked up on surveillance in multiple ways. and if there were discussions with the president corks those ever be used in a potential case? >> they could be. first we don't know what the conversations are. and we have to be careful not to jump to conclusions. and according to the way these warrants work, it is very important. if he starts about thanksgiving, they're not supposed to listen to that of they're only supposed the listen to what has to do within the scope of the the warn. it really depends on what was said and if it falls within the scope and if it is a criminal -- if it is criminally indictable. >> you can imagine a conversation with a person that might jump from topic to topic. >> they make a determination, they're trained. if it seeps like it is about something totally unnecessary or unimportant, they turn it off and stop listening.
>> when it cops to the secret surveillance court, it has been some controversy on the left and the right of the for being too permissive, for granting warrants to just about anyone. no, it is a rigorous process. people only in this there when they have espionage and other bad stuff, to use a legal term of art. let me play for you jim comey thought it was just to get warrants. >> the fisa applications are almost a skinny risk but significantly thicker than my wrist. it is a pain in the norfolk get permission to conduct electronic surveillance in the united states. a pain in the neck and that's great of the. >> the pain in the neck standard is the idea that you have to have something to get in there of how do you view it? >> i agree completely with that assessment. it is the most intrusive
investigative fool you will go after as an investigator. the amount of evidence that you have to build up for it, the reporting requirements that go along with it are significant. and they take an overwhelming amount of manpower. so they will put in a lot of hard work, evidence collection in only those applications that are sound and move forward to the actual court for some sort of ruling. i do agree that the reason for the declination rate. you always avoid that technique at all costs. >> in cases you've worked, otherwise engaged had unlawful conduct still say things they the should not say and that's why these taps are valuable?
>> it is shocking. not only is the fisa court very rigorous about what it will grant but there is a huge thing with the fbi. it goes to justice and you go through stacks and stacks of steps and approvals. it is not easy to get these warrants of the. >> stacks on stacks. >> a lot of bureaucracy. >> sometimes people say that's good for people's fourth amendment rights. thank you for your expertise on this. >> thank you. does the new gop health care bill fast jimmy kimmel test? i'll speak with chris murphy. plus, president trump facing a room full of world leaders and doning kim jong-un rocket man.
don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause symptoms. pills block one and 6 is greater than 1. flonase changes everything. with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis? how do you chase what you love do what i did.
ask your doctor about humira. it's proven to help relieve pain and protect joints from further irreversible damage in many adults. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 20 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ready for a new chapter? talk to your rheumatologist about humira. this is humira at work.
republican senators working on a new push to undercut obamacare. days before a final obamacare deadline. mike pence racing from new york on washington to throw his weight around the capitol. republicans can only lose two votes here. they've already lost one. he rand paul. and this is being called the graham/cassidy by. >> any update on where you stand with graham/cassidy? >> no. >> thank you. >> i have a lot of concerns and it is very difficult to evaluate a bill when you don't have the analysis. >> no cbo newspapers yet. and republicans know, this is it as a parliamentary member. lindsey graham who named and it co-sponsored it, has said if it
doesn't pass, it could be terrifying. >> paul ryaned medical to my face, if you pass it, we pass it. you can have different opinions about the quality of the bill. the end of the day, there is the only process left available to stop a march toward socialism. >> it is pretty clear to me where the country is going after obamacare and bernie care. >> bernie care. >> governor/doctor, i start with you on a march toward social i. >> i like his foreign policy. this is ignorant. this is an insurance based bill. it was written by people from the assuraninsurance. >> do you mean it will help copies more than patients?
>> no. it was written by and for insurance copies. it does do a lot of good things but to say it is socialism is ridiculous. it is a private sector bill. >> you're saying lindsey graham is full of it because he is talking about a market based solution. >> i wouldn't say he is full of it of the she stick to foreign policy. and cassidy will take $2 well away from the people. they pay his salary. get with the program and stop this ridiculous bill. >> building on that point, pre-existing conditions. insurers would be required to offer coverage to people with pre-existing conditions but they could offer them plans with unaffordable premiums of thousands or tens of thousands
per month. >> it fees like we're experiencing someday gentlemjaj. it still doesn't pass the kimmel test in terms of providing beam an accessible health care. this is the real problem. this is the dilemma for the gop. rushing knees without having a cbo score and having a bill that does not allow people to have rae good and quality health care. and it makes cuts in areas that even republican senators have said are over the line. too. in terms of providing health care for their people. to governor dean's point. 33% of americans support single payer. 60% think the government should be responsible for health care. >> and the issue seems to be,
the closer republicans get in public perception to undermining obamacare, now people are saying, people are saying, are they closer? what is your view? >> they have an uphill battle. you will see as you're talking about now, the same debates. conservatives want to take this further to the right and more moderate centrist republicans who are worried about their constituents losing health care. my republican sources on the hill are saying there's something different. we're nearly ten months into the year and they don't have a single legislative accomplishment coming out of congress. trump is getting mad. he's having chinese food with chuck is that nancy.
he's talking about the debt ceiling, he's talking about daca and health refor that of the they want to show them they can do something. not just for him but the mid-term elections as well. >> as you know, bob marley among others said every little action, there is a reaction. are house republicans demanding another go? >> the politics is money. the koch brothers have said they're not going to help unless they get rid of this bill. i think it is a disgusting undermining of american politics. i can't imagine they're going to vote for this. i can't believe they're even thinking about it. west virginia is one of the most
immedia medicaid states. >> to that point, this isn't negotiation toward some other middle ground. i want to put up on the screen what's in the bill. some of the key points to know no, true protection for pre-existing conditions. a gutting of those essential health benefits. ending the medicaid expansion which is not only people who might have less annual income but also an overwhelming number of seniors and people with disabilities. and then repealing the mandate. as far as i understand it, this is in some ways a harsher version of reform than earlier trump care. >> it takesthe states who did the right thing and gives it to the states that
did nothing. it is based on money and envy. >> speak to the policy point the governor just raised. something that rand paul noticed. specifically over into republican states. >> look, i think that i have a lot of people in congress who are concerned about how states that took medicaid expansion, what will happen to them? what will happen when they lose this money that they're losing to help people who can't afford health care right now. so i think that policy point is absolutely valid. you have to look at republicans are hearing from the more traditional wing of the republican party on the further right side of the party. and they're talking about driving do you know prices. and yes, p rk, people are worri about pre-existing conditions. if you talk to conservatives on the hill, 38 argue, we have to
think about what's best for the majority of americans. so it is not that a lot of publics don't want to do this. i would say probably 80% of my sources and lawmakers on the hill want to do this. they're not that concerned about all these things. the gap between political pressure and will work at the state level. if it passes for years to come. thank you all. i appreciate it. ahead, whether the health care bill can pass the kimmel test. and donald trump bringing his twitter insults all the way to the u.n. ♪
copdso to breathe better,athe. i go with anoro. ♪go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro. ♪go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro.
ask your doctor about anoro. ♪go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com. you myour joints...thing for your heart... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide.
prevagen. the name to remember. there are some pundits who like to talk about the moments when donald trump bap the president. maybe today was not one of them. >> the united states has great strength and patience. but if it is forced to defend itself and its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy north korea. rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime. >> how did it play? there's trump's chief of staff john kelly during the speech at the u.n. this is just a moment in time. we don't know what he is
thinking there as he puts his hand to his face. but it is getting a lot of attention. and also, hell on earth and america going it alone. >> may know portions of the world are in conflict. and some in fact are going to hell. i will always put america first of the. >> we can no longer be taken advantage of or enter into a one-sided deal. >> with me now, the foreign could uppist and associate i have the editor for the "washington post." how do our aize view the performance today? he talks about the most surprising thing in the speech. what is it? >> this may shock your viewers, the most surprising thing when you got past the grocery undiplomatic language was, what a conventional speech it was. i thought he didn't add any new
specific threats about iran, wearing up the agreement. he was surprisingly supportive of the united nations as an institution, a conflict solver. he said dealing with north korea should be the job of the united nations. i thought the rhetorical overkill was so pronounced that i think it leads people to overlook what are to me some important aspects of the speech. this was a president who then months ago, i thought, was setting out to basically wreck the international system to which the united states is depended for its security, its prosperity. and i saw the language in this speech contrasted even with his inaugural speech, to be different and more supportive. it was a president who was accepting that the international
institutions, the u.n. in particular, matter to the united states. and i would note that. i won't tell you that i thought that was the right language to use, rocket man of they really do contrast with where he seemed to be at the beginning of his presidency. >> i think what you are articulating here in this annual historic forum is very familiar to our viewers. not to suck up to our viewers but i think they follow politics closely and fleng donald trump has a long history are of trying to get credit for screaming about things without ever doing anything. whether it is the swamp or the wall or now a slightly more perhaps internationally esoteric
issues. who is on tsecurity council. i will play his reaganesque moment with his tip today trump being overflair. >> the united nations is not a friend of democracy. it is not a friend to freedom. it is not a friend even to the united states of america, whereas you know, it has its home. >> did you ever hear that he the united nations solved a problem? it has become a political hornet's nest. the united states pays much more than anybody else even though other people benefit. more than we do. so we're going on get it stopped. >> that was him telling his supporters this is how he'll deal with the u.n. did he say to it their face today? or did you find he focused on other issues? >> i thought that he made several important on statements about the u.n. over the last few
days. i thought in monday's odd session to discuss it, he very much committed himself and his favorite diplomat, nikki haley. this does matter. anybody who follows the u.n. knows it is too bureaucratic, wastes too much money. trump is far from alone in thinking that. the new secretary general now has strong direct support from trump. the other thing i was pleased to see. i've been distressed as i think many observers have been. secretary tillerson has backed away from human rights issues. i was, i noted with interest that trump specifically called out the u.n. human rights body which does have too many human rights violators as members. and said that's not appropriate.
and again, observers of the u.n. who like the see it be more active wouldn't disagree with that. >> right of the so a few reasonable ideas tucked under the rocket man headline. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> absolutely. as the new bill passed the kimmel test, i'll talk about it with senator chris murphy. ier t. just walk right in and pay zero dollars with most insurance. plus, when you get a flu shot at walgreens, you help provide a lifesaving vaccine to a child in need through the un foundation. it's that easy to get your flu shot and make a difference. so swing by your local walgreens today. walgreens. at the corner of happy & healthy. and life's beautiful moments.ns get between you flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. it helps block 6 key inflammatory substances
here's something interesting. late night host jimmy kimmel back in the news about health care. you may remember in may when he gave that emotional monologue about his baby son's emergency heart surgery. >> they did an echocardiogram, a sonogram of the heart and found that billy was born with a heart disease. if your baby is going to die and it doesn't have to, it shouldn't matter how much money you make. i think that's something whether
you're a republican or a democrat or something else, we all agree on that, right? i mean, we do. >> then republican senator ben cassidy pledged to uphold a kimmel test about niz health care bill he would support. now many analysts say that cassidy's bill doesn't come close to passing that test and late today jimmy kimmel tweeting this song writing, i'll give our thoughts on the grahamcassidy health care bill. i'm joined by senator chris murphy, a member of the relevant committee speaking out on this all over the place. thanks for making time on a busy day. in your view, does this fail the kimmel test and thus is senator cassidy going back on his word? >> this is a big fat f. this fails the kimmel test worse than any other version of trumpcare. and the irony of this is that the reason that bill cassidy was on that show is because he
proactively made a statement during the prior debate that any bill that republicans considered should pass the kimmel test. that's why he got to be on primetime late night tv and the bill that his name is attached to violates that test in a way that none of the other previous versions did. the reason for that, it allows every state to waive the protections for preexisting condition and then it requires them to waive that protection because it gets rid of the individual mandate. without that, every single insurance executive and expert will you cannot protect people with preexisting conditions. >> on that policy point which is so important, you're saying that under the facts of the bill this new proposal, this new stab at repealing obama care or doing trump care would make it easier to discriminate against people with those conditions at the state level? >> it will guarantee that states have to remove the protection for people with preexisting
conditions because without a mandate for healthy people to buy insurance, no state can require insurance companies to charge sick people and healthy people the same thing. this is the first version of the bill that has been introduced. the spechbt version. this is the one that proactively forces states to reveal the protection for preexisting conditions. and the irony is it's the guy who said he was goings to stand up for people with preexisting conditions that's introducing it. >> i know that you're a collegial senator. another word here on the fact would be blanket hypocrisy given his prior claims for wanting to do something for people with those conditions. that's the policy. what about the politics. health care is something that republicans did get clobbered on, became a source of a civil war between donald trump the
president, the party, the blame and the tweets. do you know why they're going back at it and do you think they have a better chance this time in. >> the issue of repealing health care is kind of like the zombie apocalypse for the republicans. it won't die. they remain worried about a sliver of the republican base that may give them trouble when primary time comes around. the overall numbers are the same when polls come out about this version of trump care. it will be at a 17%, 20% approval rating. they're worried about a small segment of trump loyalists and the republican party that may come after them if they don't pass this. it's all about politics, nothing to do with policy. and the end result is a lot of people are going to get hurt and die if this bill passes. >> turning to russia while i have you, new reports that paul manafort may be a target of the mueller investigation, this is to say he could face few chaur indictment and he was wire tapped with his contact with
foreigners and some think he was seeking russian help to tip the election. do you view these reports as something we have to wait and see and unpack or is it a key element in the case that there was come kind of collusion? >> the smoke continue to bill low and bill low. it's hard to believe that there isn't fire underneath. i this i you have to go back to the beginning. paul manafort was a curious choice to be campaign manager. he had been out of u.s. politics for a long time and never managed a race like this. his only qualification was that he had been working in ukrainian and russian politics over the better course of a decade. why was he picked in the first place, was it because of his connections to russia? >> and finally, do you think president donald trump may have to ultimately testify? are you prepared to rule that in or out? >> he absolutely may have to testify. in the end mueller is going to have to answer one central question.
did the president of the united states know about collusion between his campaign and the russian government if they can prove that it happened. so first he's going to try to figure out whether the proof of that collusion economists, more evidence suggests that it did today than six months ago, the second question is whether donald trump knew about it and only donald trump can answer that. >> only donald trump? >> there's other people that can answer that but he would be definitive on that question. >> thank you for making time on a busy day. >> thanks. i would always answer hispanic. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm everything. i'm from all nations. i would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark? because i'm everything. and i marked other. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com.
in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. ii need my blood osugar to stay iin control.. i need to cut my a1c. weekends are my time. i need an insulin that fits my schedule. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ (announcer) tresiba® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. don't use tresiba® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar, or if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. don't share needles or insulin pens. don't reuse needles. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause dizziness, sweating, confusion, and headache. check your blood sugar. low blood sugar can be serious and may be life-threatening.
injection site reactions may occur. tell your prescriber about all medicines you take and all your medical conditions. taking tzds with insulins like tresiba® may cause serious side effects like heart failure. your insulin dose shouldn't be changed without asking your prescriber. get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing, fast heartbeat, extreme drowsiness, swelling of your face, tongue, or throat, dizziness, or confusion. ask your health care provider if you're tresiba® ready. covered by most insurance and medicare plans. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪
and that's our show. find us won facebook or twitter or e-mail me. thanks for watching. hardball with chris matthews starts right now. don't mess with mueller. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews. breaking news in the trump-russia nchgs. on indictment is possible even likely in the special counsel's probe and it's clear that paul manafort is in serious legal jap parody. in a report on the aggressive tactics used by robert mueller's prosecutors, new details about the search warrant executed this july atau