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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 20, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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glebl commu global communications, you can't do that. we need more allies to work together and in this day and age than ever before. you are not going to have jobs here unless we open our borders. you're not going to have jobs here unless we do more trade. we're going to downsize in ways that we don't want to do. >> michael r. block berg quite a smart guy. that does it for me. i'll see you tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. a matter for impeachment. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. this is the city, the nation's capital where special council robert mueller seems to believe president trump committed major wrongdoing. did the new president obstruct justice in his attempt to kill the russian investigation? did he use his office to keep
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the fbi from doing its job? did he throw his official influence behind efforts to bend justice from the truth? this is the quest that robert mueller per sues to see if the president obstructed justice. we start with breaking news from the "the new york times" that reveals new details about the materials that the special counsel has requested from the white house, requests that shed new light on the direction of the ongoing probe. we also tonight are following two natural disasters, of course in puerto rico, hurricane maria made landfall as a category 4 store, knocking out power already to the entire island. it may be months before it's back on. in mexico, more than 200 people are dead after a 7.1 magnitude earthquake. the death toll is expected to rise of course as the rescue crews continue to search the rubble in the country's capital city. we'll have live reports coming up. first, to the russia
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investigation and the document request special counsel robert mueller has made of the white house. according to the "the new york times," the document request provide the most details of yet and show that several aspects of its inquiry are focused on squarely on mr. trump's behavior in the white house. they report that the requests include dpoocuments about the president's oval office meeting with russian diplomats on the day after he fired james comey, documents related to the firing of michael flynn and documents pertaining to the white house response to questions about donald trump jr.'s campaign meeting with russians last year at trump tower. the washington post reports further that mueller ask for further e-mail or document the white house holds that relates to paul manafort. this comes after he learn this week that prosecutors warned manafort that he will be indicted. joining me is michael schmitt,
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tom ham berger is a reporter fer the washington post, paul butler, a former federal prosecutor and natasha bretran is a reporter covering the russian problem for business insider. michael schmitt, talk about what you see from what documents there's pursuing from the white house at this point, is it centering more on obstruction of justice than initial possible collusion during the campaign? >> well all we know about is this request. we don't know about requests that may have gone to the campaign or the transition team. but what struck us about this was how much it was focused on things that have happened since the president has been in office and things she had a direct hand in. the firing of flynn, the firing of comey, how to respond to questions about the 2016 meeting his son and the russians who promised derogatory information about hillary clinton. muller's investigation to this point has been a bit of a black hole. we've only known so much. but by looking at these requests
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we sort of were able to see through his eyes a little bit, see what he's looking at and see the things that he cares about. and for a white house that insisted that the president has done nothing wrong here. it certainly looks like there a lot of things that mueller wants to look at. >> this is based on the reporting of the president himself, not on manafort or flynn or the others but mainly what did the new president do to use his office improperly. >> well naturally the questions going to the white house would pertain to him. but you're right, there is a certain much about that that is directed directly after his behavior. the other thing that struck us was this meeting that he had with the russian officials, the russian ambassador in the oval office the day after comey was fired. mueller is asking for information about that meeting. why would mueller want to know? we know that in that meeting trump said that firing comey had relieve pressure on him. so is mueller trying to get
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inside the mind-set of why trump fired comey. we don't know. it's also in that meeting that we know that trump disclosed classified information to the russians that had been given to the united states by one of our allies. >> you know, mike, i've covered politics and been it in for a long time and i look at things simply. i look at motive in a simple way. self interest. and i look at robert mueller who took this job as special counsel, he had been fbi director for many years, a great one. he's friends with comey who was an fbi director, i believe a competent one. he saw him fired over this issue apparently. he took the case on that basis. it seems to me, let me ask you in terms of your reporting, and the documents now being pursued, it looks to me like he's on the path we always thought heg was on, that the new president, donald trump used his office to protect himself from prosecution and investigation by the fbi. >> yeah. i mean, when we look at this document and we sort of try and
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see this thing, it does seem like he is focused a lot on what trump did. look, we don't have a document that says that trump is a target of the investigation, that is not in the document of what we saw. but if you look at the request, it is very focused on trump. and this is something that we have thought for a long time. there's been some indications of this early on, that they were looking at issues related to the comey firing, whether other intelligence officials, the president tried to enlist them to help convince comey to kill the flynn investigation. but this to date is the most details that we have. this is the most that we know. mueller runs a very tight ship. it's not leaky at all. it's been hard for us to get inside the investigation and try and see what the investigators are looking for. >> well hold on there, michael. let's go to tom hamburger who broke the story in the washington post tonight reporting that paul manafort offered to provide briefings about the dwooen election to a russian billionaire during the
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campaign. briefings in this business tend to be another way of lobbying. telling somebody what's going on. you ared ed advising them what do. investigators believe that the exchanges that reflect manafort's willingness to profit from his prominent role alongside trump created an opening for russian interest. manafort offered to give that briefing to the billionaire was contained in a batch of e-mails turned over to congressional investigators. by the way his spokesman confirmed the authenticity of the e-mails to nbc news and calls the exchange innocuous. that's not the way i look at it. people in this town make a lot of money, the big insiders on a quarter retainer basis in many cases. if you're going to brietting a from the man who's sharing the presidential can date's campaign who may be the next president,
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you're going inside. your thoughts. what's this men, what you got? >> it's another example that's emerging, one of several that's emerging from the big batch of e-mails that's been turned over to investigators that shows there was more communication with russians and with some very prominent russians than we knew before. now paul manafort's spokesman said as you just quoted, that us innocuous, simply an attempt he confirms by paul manafort to use the position he had as campaign chair to try to recover some old debts from the region. he had been very active as a consultant in the ukraine, former soviet union felt he was owed money and wanted to be sure that those who owed him were aware of his new position in the campaign and the good press he was getting. >> this is tricky because we've heard reports or been given reports in the major papers that this guy, manafort, also owed something like $17 million to his oligarchs. what is going on?
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there's huge amounts of money going both ways. your thoughts. your reporting. >> paul manafort is among the targets of the special counsel. we know that paul manafort along with general michael flynn are two very prominent targets. and not just because they have some connections to russians and they were top advisers to the campaign, but also in both cases there are potential legal liabilities for them. if paul manafort's case, he was an international businessman who had tens of millions of dollars flowing through investment accounts that he had around the world. he's already a target, an interest of manafort. one of the theories is that -- i'm sorry, of bob mueller. and one of the theories is that the special counsel will hope to press paul manafort with piling up charge and hope to flip him, hope he'll have information that he can deal that will implicate the president or members of his team. >> seems plausible as hell. thank you so much for that great
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reporting for the washington post. >> thanks. >> let me go back to michael schmitt and paul but her and natas natasha. what do we make of the fact that they're fielth ghting in a restaurant, ken vogel is sitting next to them a block from the capital. i'm start with you, michael. he's sitting there and he overhears a conversation between two lawyers for the president, one is dodd and one is ty cobb. and they're talking about whether to release documents or not. it seems to me like this is heated up right now based on your reporting and vogels. this is right at the heart of the president. in watergate should there be a limited hangout or stone wall. these are phrases i was brought up with. your thoughts. >> there is tension in the white house among the lawyers on how to deal with the requests from mueller. should they hand over as many documents as possible? that's sort of cobb's point of view. the idea is get as much of this to mueller as possible because
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we've got nothing to hide, we shouldn't put executive privilege on them. the white house counsel is more conservative on that point and concerned about the precedent of waiving executive privilege and handing this stuff over to the white house. but there's issue between cobb and mcgann about how mcgann is going to be handled by the special prosecutor. mcgann needs for cobb and the president to make a decision about whether the president is going to exert privilege over mcgann or allow mcgann to freely speak with the special prosecutor. mcgann is important to all of this stuff because his was involved in all of these decisions that were in the list of information that we wrote about today. the firing of comey, the firing of flynn, how to deal with questions about russian meddling in the election. and if someone like mcgann can speak to what the president was thinking but at the same time it's hard to believe that a judge would ever allow you to use a lawyer to speak to the intent of someone. so it's a difficult question and
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something that the folks in the white house are continuing to wrestle with. >> well these are box office reports tonight. very little time for paul and for natasha but i do want your thoughts as a prosecutor paul and one who covers business. each of you quickly. give me your assessment of what you've heard tonight in these two reports, basically the one that seems to be focused on on instruction of j obstruction of justice by the president. >> tens of thousands of documents subpoenaed, two grand juries impanelled. he's looking at three issues all involving president trump's dishonesty. first, why did he create the false narrative about the donald trump jr. meeting with the russians. second, why did he hang on to flynn when president trump's affiliates told him flynn was
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dirty. trump hires him and tries to protect him afterwards. and then why fire comey. why did he try to get rod rosenstein to jen up a reason when we know the reason. why is he lying? why is he creating a false narrative if the intent is to impede an investigation that's a federal crime. >> natasha, i'm looking at the same thing that the expert paul butler is that the president of the united states did not want to be investigated and he used the power to prevent it. your thoughts, your reporting. >> i completely afree. today's reporting puts everything that we've heard in the past couple of weeks about ty cobb's disagreements with other members of trump's legal team in context. they feel that president trump is very vulnerable when it comes to the possibility that he might be charged with obstruction of justice. and even if he's not charged with the crime of obstruction of justi justice, mueller is building a strong case that he can bring to congress and recommend impeachment which will be a
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political question, not a legal one. >> you're so smart. i'm sorry. i'm not patronizing. you that's the bullseye np in the end this special counsel can present a pile of evidence against this current president. i'm not counting on the regular constitutional processes with this republican crowd who seem to be so institutionally and almost automatically loyal to trump even when there's no reason to do it expect they're in the same political party. sorry to cut you off. it's been a long session with a lot of news. thank you paul butler for the expertise and natasha, thank you so much. paul hamburger as well. we'll get back to the politics in a minute but coming up, the latest on two major natural disasters. they're catastrophes, first a deadly earthquake in mexico right now that happened yesterday, the death toll is going to rise as rescue crews
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continue to comb through the rubble. and hurricane maria, the big storm devastated puerto rico knocking out power across the entire island. no more leg tris pi there. the strongest hurricane to hit puerto rico in 90 years. a live reportmenting up live from puerto rico. obamacare on the brink. republicans are trying one last time i think to repeal the affordable care act but they've got pretty big opponents in talk show host jimmy kimmel and a lot of governors. kasich is one of them and he joins us tonight. finally let me finish with trump watch. you don't like this one but he is playing this game. that's donald trump and this is "hardball" where the action is. . he's on his way to work in new mexico. willie and john both work for us, a business that employs over 90,000 people in the u.s. alone.
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we are the coca-cola company, and we make much more than our name suggests. we're an organic tea company. a premium juice company. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and all of our products rely on the same thing we all do... clean water. which is why we have john leading our efforts to replenish every drop of water we use. we believe our business thrives when our communities thrive. which is just one of the reasons we help make college a reality for thousands of students. today, companies need to do more. so john and willie are trying to do just that. thank you for listening. we're listening too. welcome back to hardball. at least 200 people are dead after a massive 7.1 magnitude
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earthquake that struck mexico city yesterday late afternoon. less than two weeks earthquake off of the coast of mexico city. in terms of perspective, this is the big one in in 1906 in san francisco, that earthquake had a magnitude of 7.8. here's a glimpse of what residents experienced. imagine being there. at least 44 buildings collapse and thousands of people were forced to evacuate their office. but as you can see, look at that, rescue crews worked throughout the night and spent today searching for children trapped under a collapsed school where at least 25 people, i guess a lot of the kids were killed. i'm joined by ron mott in mexico
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city. >> reporter: we got some good news today on the death toll. it was reduced downward by two. that's good news. in terms of the school, this is not the school but in terms of the school they're looking for upwards of three dozen school children and adults. they were able to get two young people out of that school rubble today. that's good news. now here behind me, this was an employment agency so it was packed to the gills yesterday with people looking for jobs, especially young people. and we understand that there are a number of people alive in the rubble behind me. a six story building. i don't know how well you can see it. there is a group of safety individuals on top of the building and their plan is to get to the fourth floor. there's a group of people on the fourth floor. they've managed to get messages to those friends and families of the folks inside. but they have not managed to get them out. so they are going to work through the night to try to find a way, a tunnel to try to get them out of a fourth floor
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conference room, what they're calling is essentially a triangle of life. the floor above them collapsed at an angle, left them enough room to breathe and the back side is a wall that's holding up at this point. as far as i can tell, the ground as remained relatively stable today. if there had been aftershock's in yesterday's quake, they have been mayinor. they managed to get a lot of people out here. 40, 41 structures that have collapsed here in mexico city. most of the deaths have come here in mexico city, the capital. the quake itself was centered to our south and east and one of our team members who lives here in mexico city said there this was a pretty scary quake yesterday that went on for a long time. if you've never been in one they are quite unsettling if you will. this scene is going to go on through the night. we imagine the same is going on south of town where that school
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is and then a number of other areas where people are trapped still in buildings but obviously every minute counts now and the longer we go, we're 25 hours plus now. the less likelihood of getting people out alive. >> what a human report you gave us. watching those signs. they want everybody to be quiet so they can hear the cries of the people buried there. what a human situation. ron mott in mexico city. we'll be walk with the latest on murck maria which has knocked o out power on the whole island of puerto rico. you're watching "hardball." chronic dry eye symptoms, chat with your eye doctor and go to myeyelove.com it's all about eyelove, my friends. feeling the love? are your eyes dry, itchy and gritty? blurry vision at times? grab some face time with your eye doctor
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what should i watch? it could save your life. show me sports. it's so fluffy! look at that fluffy unicorn! he's so fluffy i'm gonna die! your voice is awesome. the x1 voice remote. xfinity. the future of awesome. welcome back to hard ball. hurricane maria delivered a massive blow to puerto rico today making landful as a category 4. the strongest hurricane to hit the island of puerto rico in nearly 90 years. power is out across the entire
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island. half of san juan was flooded, roads turned into rivers, power lines and trees are down, roofs ripped off of homes. today president trump approved an emergency declaration for puerto rico. gabe gutierrez is in san juan. it's nighttime there. tell us, is it over? >> reporter: the storm itself may be over but the aftermath is just beginning. the power of the storm is e mess. overturned cars and collapsed buildings as we've ventured out. many are stunned. this is a storm that came on shore as a category 4 storm and we were hit hard for several hours with hurricane force winds. the big concern was the storm surge and the flooding. that is still continuing to night. right now the mayor says its search and rescue missions are just beginning now that the storm has passed. the governor imposed a curfew. there is no firm total on the number of dead or injured here
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but that assessment is just beginning now and expecting to continue for several days. as you know, for several months even some areas of this island are expected to be without power. so certainly a massive storm. the full impact is still being assessed. back to you. >> something else. those pictures to have wind there, looks like it can knock over everything. gabe gutierrez in san wojuan. i'm joined on the phone with the mayor of san juan. it looks like everything is over in terms of the horror but now you've got to deal with the calamity. >> that is right, chris. thank you for the opportunity. i'm a big fan of your show and yourself. here we are outalreaside alread. we have 200 municipal employees working to do the first phase of what we call a medical search and rescue. we have to open the area so that
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ambulances can go by, so that people can reach the hospitals, so that that aid and help that people need can actually go into the different communities. all of san juan and puerto rico as you said has no leg trelectr. no running water. the government nor has had to set a curfew because people in some areas are looting the stores. but we have 200 people from the municipality working, cutting trees, moving them aside making sure that the recovery begins right away. because have no doubt we will prevail over this and push on and we will make sure that we reinvent ourselves, rebuild ourselves and we do everything humanly possible to just overcome what has hit us. >> well, you've got a lot of spirit out there on that island. i've been a number of times. i'm rooting for you. mayor, good luck and thank you
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for being a fan of this show. it's not as important as the challenge facing you but thank you for saying that. >> for puerto rico, the hurricane laid siege to the u.s. virgin islands as a category 5. the congresswoman from there joins me now. thank you for being here. >> thank for having me. >> it's an amazing part of the world. but it's also exposed to the weather out there. >> and we got it not just from maria yesterday on the island of st. croix but prior to that two weeks ago on irma on st. thomas and st. john. they've lost power on st. thomas and st. john. we lost the hospital on st. john. st. croix was the base for the reconstruction and for the rescue and now that is out as well. there's a lot of work to be done. we've got a lot of support from fema and we're just now looking to the rebuilding. >> you know that part of the world, those islands are
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volcanic. you get in a boat nearby and you know you're in a deep ocean. i'm asking you about the money that comes into those parts of the world, the place you represent. the u.s. virgin islands. when is the season that you get back in shape and they bring the money in. >> because of the way our economy has gone over the last several years, we are now a tourist economy. we're going to lose this year, beginning in october and runs through april. we've not only lost structures but look at the foliage. everything is brown. the salt blasts. >> let's encourage people to go no matter what's going on. i remember seeing the red skins play the super bowl and i'm watching it in some bar down there and i realize that americans love to leave the main land to go to the virgin islands to watch what's going on here. it's very american. >> the thing we need you to do is keeping the emphasis on those areas, particularly for federal support post-fema. when fema leaves to see if
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there's going to be additional assistance from my colleagues in congress. >> you've got a voice and it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. glad you came on the show tonight. great to have you on. up next, talk to governor john kasich of ohio why he's opposed to the latest last minute attempt to kill obamacare. he's against killing obamacare. this is an interesting republican that i like, i'll admit it. this is "hardball" where the action is. ♪ ♪
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a politician, a senator named bill cassidy from louisiana was on my show and he wasn't very honest. he said he wants coverage for all, no discrimination based on preexisting conditions, lower premiums for middle class families and no lifetime caps. guess what, the new bill does none of those things. this guy, bill cassidy just lied right to my face. >> welcome back to hardball. that was abc's jimmy kimmel trashing the newly resurrected republican effort to repeal obamacare. the graham-kasty bill. the seven-year quest has taken on new life this week chblgs people start to think it has a chance. >> my republican colleagues are certainly recognizing the fact that if we don't pass something obamacare remains the law of the land. anybody saying it doesn't do
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enough, well a new vote leaves 100% of obamacare in place. >> mitch mcconnell decided to bring the bill out for a vote next week. the renewed push has left the senators scrambling. republicans have 11 day to pass the bill uses the process that keeps the minority democrats from blocking the proposal. here's what we know about the legislation. if enacted it would replace obamacare's insurance subsidies with lump sum grants to states, it would end the mandate, it would end requirements that employers provide health care to their workers and end the requirement that insuraners can deny coverage or charge for for preexisting conditions. something president trump himself promised he wouldn't do. what's not in the bill? opioid funding, a former must had for moderate republicans whose states have been hit with
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the ep demmiidemiepidemic. senator lisa murkowski of alaska and senator john mccain. republicans have one firm now, that's rand paul of kentucky. >> this is not repeal. it's not even -- it's barely obamaca obamacare lite. it keeps obamacare. >> he can't afford to lose two votes. the bill is losing support from big state governors across the country like governor chris christie of new jersey and yesterday a bipartisan group of ten governors opposed the bill because of its partisan approach. for more more now i'm joined by governor john kasich of ohio. thank you. what is wrong with this bill? >> well, chris, what it does is it takes the medicaid expansion, along with the money that was set aside to provide subsidies to people so they could buy health care, it cuts it right off of the bat by 17%.
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it has no guardrails to protect people who are the mentally ill, the drug addicted the chronically ill. and you mentioned the business of the preexisting condition. yeah, it's right, they cannot deny you coverage for preexisting conditions but they can charge you what they want. so if the cost becomes unaffordable, it doesn't matter what they say. so, chris, look, hickenlooper, the democrat governor of colorado, myself, brian sandoval who is head of the national governor's association, we came up with a proposal to stabilize the insurance market. it's bipartisan. it started to gain some ground or the notion that we could do this in a bipartisan way, stabilize the insurance markets and deal with medicaid later. then all of the sudden that kind of got snuffed out. so now we have this bill. we won't have a congressional budget office score, we won't know what the damage of it is. but if you're cutting stuff that
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much, then, you know, it's clear that there are going to be losses for people. that's what i'm worried about. the bill doesn't affect me. i'm only governor for 15 months or whatever. but in the future it could have a dramatic impact on people. and it's not just about numbers. it's about people. >> where do you think that we're going to end up on health care. some of the democrats -- of course bernie sanders from vermont who almost won the nomination of the democratic party is pushing the medicare for all he calls it. that's sort of on the progressive or left side. >> hard left side. >> i can accept that. where is the republican -- where is the centrist republican vote? what do you want? do you want health care, a national health care system sort of like the one for the heritage foundation like obama created or nothing in. >> what i want is an exchange where people can go and buy insurance, that we have a system that allows them to get some subsidies so they can afford the
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coverage. i would like to be able to reform medicaid to give ourselves some more flexibility but with guardrails. one of the things that we proposed in our insurance reform was to give states the flexibility to create their own program and let states that want to support obama care could still do it. and if republicans or any governor wanted to have more flexibility, they had to meet a couple of conditions. you just couldn't offer somebody coverage that wasn't meaningful and secondly you couldn't drop a bunch of coverage for a population. and it still continued to say that we need to cover people for preexisting conditions. this can be done. and they were starting down the right road, lamar alexander, patty murray and then all of the sudden, smells a little bit like politics to me, the thing was declared dead. we're in a ping-pong match. you and i worked together on capitol hill. nothing can be sustained that is just one party. knock the ball over, then the republicans knock the ball over.
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it's like a ping-pong match and you know who loses in a bing pong match? the public. >> you've said that and i understand that. before we had obamacare we had nothing. then we have obamacare which isn't perfect. everybody admits that. moderate democrats and rops agree it's a maistake. we're not going to something that's square one. we're going to a hybrid, something of 0 boom obamacare t needs to be fixed. why don't we agree to fix obamacare. >> that's what hickenlooper and a lot of us proposed, gets the market stabilized and then we were going to turn to medicaid and fundamental reform of health care and medicare and social security, because these entitlements have to be brought under control. you know, look, my sense is that obamacare was very flawed but there's way to fix it if we do it together. you remember when we wrote the
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welfare reform bill. it was a give and take and the welfare reform bill passed in '96, '97, it's still in place. needs reformed but still in place. >> where are you in politics right now. you mentioned that you're ending your governorship in less than a year and a half. do you plan to run for president in 2020? >> i don't plan anything other than get through today. hopefully this interview doesn't screw me up. be a good governor and i don't know what the future is going to bring. i want to have a voice out there ap honestly as hard as it is to believe, i know things will happen that will be good. the lord will fulfill the purpose of my life and i'll go with it. i'm not panicked. do i seem panicked? >> i don't think you are. if you had to go in the voting booth and you had two names on the ballot, one is bernie sanders and one is donald trump,
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who did you vote for? >> i'm not voting for bernie sanders, he's hard left. that's not a choice i have to face. >> can you offer yourself as an alternative, a third party candidate? >> chris, i'm not doing anything to plan other than to have an organization so i can do these kinds of things that i'm doing and say the things that i'm saying now. you know what? there aren't a lot of people that come on your show and talk about this that are republicans because they get ouched. i can do it and i want to continue to do it. i don't know what the future brings. maybe i can cohost hardball, you never know. >> thank you for that. keeping all of your options open, including that one. thank you governor john kasich. up next, top aids defending his new nickname for his names for if north korean dignitary. they love all of this red meat. we'll get back to that with the round table tonight. you're watching "hardball." i was working for the c.i.a. and pablo escobar...
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the united states has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself for its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy north korea. rocketman is on a suicide mission for himself. and for his regime. >> welcome back to hardball. i can never get over the fact that he's good at putting his hand like this. in all of the religion books i had growing up that was jesus putting his hand like this and trump duds it when he's talking as about destroying an entire country. well that rhetoric may be bread for the base, some new polls out today indicate that his recent bipartisan approach, outreach on hurricane relief and daca doesn't bother his core supporters. a university poll, among those
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who voted for trump only 15% say his actions in the last month have raised questions about his conservative principles. more than 75% of his peeps said it doesn't raise any questions with them. and a politico report, 53% ap f approve of the job he's doing. that's not great but around where he was when he got elected. let's bring in the round table. we have the top three journalists in the country right now. i really mean it. what do you make of trump's little he does this and then he does the crazy, the high school harry number, rocketman. meanwhile he is showing brains in going into these deals with the democrats. >> he is moving toward being able to govern. he had a catastrophic first nine months. i think he knew that he was just
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nowhere and i think he's reshuffled the deck as trump does. he is the disrupter. he realized the republicans were getting him nowhere. they're not a governing party so he's reached out to schumer and pelosi. i thought the speech at the u.n. had some dreadful moments. the belligerent rhetoric. but you boil it down, it was a conventional speech. and i actually think it's a good thing in terms of limiting the damage of the trump presidency that he's bringing his supporters to the idea that the u.n. is a good institution. he wants it to work. he wants to work through the u.n. to me that was the core of the speech, outside the headline zingers. and i think that's a positive. >> susan. >> i guess i would disagree. i think the language that he used that accepted the united nations that we're going to remain a part of was the stuff that was written down for him that he read. but the stuff that he meant was
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the america first, sovereignty first, the rocketman on a suicide mission and we're going to destroy you, the tough language about the iran deal, we'll see in the next two weeks about whether he actually upsets that deal. i think that was the stuff that he means. this was an articulation of the same policies that he took during the campaign and that pivot that people waited for to see once he's in governing if he is seeing things for complicated having to moderate those positions. i didn't see that in that speech. >> chief, break the tien i don't think so -- >> i don't think we can say there's a trump doctrine in foreign policy that's dramatically different from before, in iraq, afghanistan and our long running forum boards. what his predecessors did. he said he wouldn't do that but he's doing it. he did pull us out of paris because he doesn't believe in climate change. he's made some changes but i
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don't see a rad ical departure. the rhetoric was harsh and not something you see in the united nations and that was jarring and should have been jarring. but again i'll believe the huge departure when i see it. >> is his rhetoric separate from his actions? he's not going to break up the iranian nuclear deal i don't think but he's talking about it's the worst thing in history. the most humiliating thing in american history. maybe he will keep it going. >> so far, look, every time they've had to do so they've certified that iran is comply g complying. >> isn't it frightening that he would kill it, draifavid? that's your area. >> it would be a generously dangerous mistake. it would harm u.s. security, israeli security. i think adding another nuclear problem, nuclear crisis when we're dealing with north korea would be folly. so i have to assume that a
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rational president in the end won't do that. you know, is donald trump in the end rational? we're finding out. >> is he rational? >> well, you know, he's crazy like a fox. he throws these grenades for political purposes. what i learned watching his businesses, he takes a lot fewer risks than you think he does. he doesn't expose his own capital generally. so -- but i think the fact that a lot of his supporters hate the u.n., think the u.n. is dangerous. the fact that he was there speaking to the u.n., being part of that whole process, i think that's good. bringing those people into the idea that the u.n. is a good thing. >> the same thing he did with tough neighborhoods, rough urban neighborhoods in this country, he trashed them, trashed poor countrie countries, they're going to hell. it's the middle class attitude. he trashes them in a way that seems to bring delight to a certain kind of shaf nis tick
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american. >> here he is trashing the iranian deal and we'll see if he actually pulls out of. how does that persuade them to go along with a nuclear persuad go along with a nuclear deal and isn't the scariest thing that he faces? >> he would show that he'll walk away from another nuclear deal he did, what more does kim jong-un -- go exactly. >> -- need to know. >> that's very smart. you're actually talking consequence, which i think this president should really honor. anyway, the round table is sticking with us. this is "hardball," where the action is. ask your doctor about humira. it's proven to help relieve pain and protect joints from further irreversible damage in many adults. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 20 years.
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which is just one of the reasons we help make college a reality for thousands of students. today, companies need to do more. so john and willie are trying to do just that. thank you for listening. we're listening too. we're back with the "hardball" round table. we have time for david ignatius for a great prediction. >> the pentagon thinks it has an answer to north korea's missiles. they are super fast, airborne lasers carried in drones. just outside north korean air space. the only problem is, it won't even be ready as a prototype until 2023. sorry. >> not a good use but it sounded great. david ignatius, thank you. eugene robinson, susan page, thank you. when we return, trump watch. he's not going to like this one because it's about what he's really up to. you're watching "hardball."
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trump watch. wednesday, september 20th, 2017. i watched trump's recent political moves with interest. i believe it's based on an old formula from the days of the caesars, bread and circuses. first the bread. on the one hand, he takes care to keep the economy and society moving along calmly. he works with the grownups to deal with hurricane harvey. whatever the hard right said about washington, they want help when there's trouble. people on the right would like
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the economy to keep moving along and don't want a government shutdown and they keep the government paying its bills. as for circuses, do you have to ask? when you wake up in the morning, his tweets are the first thing you hear about, all aimed at keeping his base thrilled as can be. he goes to the u.n. in new york and mocks the leader of north korea as rocket man, attacks the third world of going to hell. his people love it. bread and circuses, one and then the other and then the other again. never stopping the action. is it working? check today's polls. more than three-quarters of his supporters in a brand-new poll are find with his doing business with the democrats. only 15%, one in six, says it even raises questions. they are with him on this. notice how this works for him. he cuts deals with democrats over the debt ceiling and avoid as government shutdown. he accepts daca for those who
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came to the country as children. he decides not to kill the iranian nuclear deal and keeps his people entertained with humiliating shots at his enemy in pyongyang, tehran. hail caesar. that's all for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> robert mueller is an honorable man. hopefully he comes up with an honorable solution. he was with the campaign, as you know, for a short period of time. then, the backlash to the new senate republican health care bill grows. >> there's a new jimmy kimmel test for you. it's called the lie detector test.

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