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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  September 22, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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that's all for tonight. we'll be back monday with more "mtp daily." if it's sunday, catch "meet the press" on your local tv station. good evening, ari, and happy new year. >> happy new year. tonight president trump is on the verge of another stinging rebuke from his own party on trump care. the key player is john mccain who came out swinging today and may ultimately be the veto of the republicans' last-ditch effort to revive trump care by the next deadline. saying he cannot in good conscience vote for the new trump care effort. this is a big deal. it means obviously democrats only now need one more vote to save obamacare and administer another bipartisan thumping of this young president. saving health care for at least 21 million people.
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that's the policy side. in shining a victory with the word obama in it. that's the political side. obamacare does still hang in the balance because of that one vote. but tonight, just one. and then it would be done. tonight susan collins said she is leaning against the new gop plan. she was part of theert. lisa murkowski also up in the air. pence now coming out with a late day plea. >> we cannot in good conscience abandon this cause. the american people are hurting. president trump has made clear, inaction is not an option. let me be clear. a vote against graham cassidy is a vote to save obamacare. >> this is the biggest domestic fight of the last decade. and it hangs in the balance right now of the so look what's happening. the trump white house is rolling
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out mike pence. not the president. and that's pretty he telling. this is a president who tends to lose more senate votes than he gains and perhaps the best thing he can do for republicans on this fight tonight is disappear. because even in a republican controlled senate, when the choice is boiled down to obamacare versus trump, obamacare has been winning. it is another reminder of how unpredictable politics is. especially when you have a deal maker in the white house who looks box in the and stuck leading from behind. i want to bring in right now howard fineman, global director for the "huffington post." this wasn't how it was supposed to be. what is happening? >> well, i think there are two things happening. one on a substantive level. there are a lot of doubts about this bill. and not just from democrats. a lot of republicans don't know the details or are concerned about what impact it might have.
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and then politically, as you said, donald trump pounding the table rhetorically is not necessarily a winner to keep the republican coalition together. in the case of mccajohn mccain i've covered for decades, pounding the table is likely to drive them in the other direction which is what happened in a move that i think will kill the bill. >> i want to play for you, jimmy kimmel who has been in this. not really by choice as a political matter. i think it is fascinating to see someone who came out and spoke who i think everyone knows about his child. about how health care works in this country. then gets sue it with senator cassidy who is now selling here, this thing hanging as of this hour by one vote. by a thread. listen to jimmy kimmel talking about his qualifications in all this. >> a lot of people have been saying, i'm not qualified to talk about it. and that's true. but i think those people forget.
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bill cassidy named this test after me. am i supposed to be quiet about that? >> has this back fired on senator cassidy? >> well, yes, it has. jimmy kimmel has very artfully framed this in terms of the question of pre-existing conditions. in other words, who gets coverage based on whether they're sick when they come into the program and lifetime spoeng a particular illness which is particularly apt in jimmy kimmel's case because of his little boy. so on those two top igs, jimmy kimmel has been very effective. last night on his show, he had senator al franken, a critic of the cassidy bill from minnesota who is very knowledgeable and stuck to those talking points. actually, the democrats oddly enough led by jimmy kimmel, focused on the most personal, most telling and most emotional aspects of the attack.
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which i think has helped. in john mccain's case, this is john mccain returning to the mccain msnbc of 2000, whom i covered as the maverick. >> let's pause. i want to get you on that and i have joy reid on my sbid to join us. this is not the first thing between he mccain and trump. plus in february when trump tweeted, mccain has been losing so long, he doesn't know how to win anymore. days later he was at that security conference in germany. mccain firing back. >> this panel is going to ask us to consider whether the west will survive. in recent years, this question would invite accusations of hyperbole and alarmism. not this year. if ever there was a time to treat this question with a deadly seriousness, it is now. >> the respectful implication being that the president not being serious. and then after trump's comments on charlottesville, the
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president wrote, he is often poorly informed. and then back to health care. mccain famously having the last vote. there it was and there it is. i want to bring in joy reid, the host of joy a.m. author of the new book, thanks, obama, last time he did it straight up on the floor like that. this time he's coming out earlier. >> any time he's at war with john mccain, it is worse for trump. john mccain is not defending obamacare. you never heard him defend the law. he is defending the senate. one of the things has become the
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most broken with donald trump in the white house is the idea of the co-equal branch of government behaving as anything other san supine lackeys. they've behaved as if they're donald trump's employees and john mccain is saying we're not his employees of he's defending the process. the only way donald trump wins, schumer was the only person he knew before he came to washington. the only way he wins is if the chaos forces the republican party to fear the base so much that they do whatever he says. he can't afford to keep alienating john mccain and yet he doesn't learn. he's an friend have john mccain and mccain owns him nothing. >> you make the point that it is not necessarily obamacare being defended. it is the actual constitutional being in charge.
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>> i don't know if you know the jamaican saying, we run things, things don't run we. >> the thing, donald trump has exploded a lot of norms. one of the most alarming things about him being president is that it does call into question what are the institutions are strong enough. at some point the american people need the co-equal branch of government down the street to stand up and be a co-equal branch of government to rein him in. the strongest argument democrats have is that republicans are unwilling to do it. they're unwilling to be the senate and the house. they have decided to be lackeys. to be employees. john mccain is the one guy saying, no, we don't want to be
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lackeys. that's not a lot for they on hang their hats on. john mccain is not on any side. he's probably on lindsey graham's side of the will unless the institution works, i'll not playing along. >> so interesting as you point out. this goes to whether republican fan fiction can be governable or not. this is example of not. i want to put up on the screen jimmy kimmel's response. he's been all over this debate. he writes, jimmy kimmel says thank you, senator john mccain, for being a hero again and again and now again. howard as mentioned, you've covered him a long time. walk us through the kind of leadership we're seeing here from john mccain today. >> well, i covered his 2000 campaign which was the best mccain. that was john mccain saying that he was for bipartisanship.
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that he was searching for consensus. even while he was running as a maverick and an outside here wanted regular order in a way. and to follow up on what joy was saying, the interesting thing is he was mr. maverick in the context of mr. trump's washington. what he's arguing is tradition. don't forget, john mccain is third or fourth generation navy. his father was an admiral. his grandfather was an admiral. he has a sense of the continuity of the constitution and service in america. it is that above all that motivates his distaste and disdain for donald trump. and the feeling between the two of them is mutual. they are barely in the same world. and the mccain msnjohn mccain y today is the mccain of 2000. as he faces the illnesses and the battles he faces now, i think he is consciously seeking
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to recapture the energy and the emotion and the best of himself politically that he saw in that earlier campaign. >> and that's all the politics and the relationships. we have david here. i want to play something from one of your colleagues, josh earn aest. he is a much better communicator than you. he is a writer, you're a talker. just messing with you. in one blizzard last night, where i was watching last night. i was glued to my tv screen. all the facts you were unfu unfurling. put the personalities aside. he talks about where people and companies involved in health care are on this new trump care bill. take a listen. >> it seems that every single group that is in any way involved in providing health care to americans opposes this bill. hospital executives oppose it because it is bad for hospitals.
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doctors oppose i had because it is bad for doctors. patient advocates oppose it because it is bad for patients. >> he's arguing everyone in health care hates trump care. >> that's right. you have the republican party and donald trump saying, we want to rip health care away from 20 million people because we don't like barack obama very much. that's what it boys down to. it is not the care part. it is the obama part. there's a reason why obamacare is now at 54% popularity. we would have loved that when we were in the white house. and graham cassidy is at 24%. this makes no political sense or policy sense of the. >> howard fineman. thank you for being here and reflecting on reporting history. joy, stay with me. i want to ask you, if you could interview anyone on your show, who would it be? that's warning. and we have some other really
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important breaking news. this just came into the newsroom. the federal government identifying for the first time the 21 states interfered with there elections. and steve bannon going to war with his old boss. squaring off in good old alabama. and jim comey made his first public appearance today ever since that senate testimony. we'll show it to you.
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department of homeland security telling the individual states for the first time. this is the first time the trump administration informed them they were targeted by russia. we are of course ten months after the election this may be tense for some individuals. the authorities are doing this to help address potential hacking in the future. meanwhile, some trump aides receiving out to head hunters. surveillance surveillance. is trump noticing the heat? we ran the numbers and signs point to yes. trump had been tweeting about a dozen times a month about russia in early sull cher felt the five in august.
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then nothing. trump went over a month. 38 days without tweeting about russia. and given his usual rate of tweeting, that suggests his lawyers were hurting himself with his tweets. a tweet diet is like any diet. the test is time. anyone can diet for an hour. i'll go sometimes would hours without a cinnamon roll. a month is harder. for trump, we see 38 days was his breaking point. as he picked up this facebook news to slam the russia hoax today. trump may reveal more than he intends. is there something about facebook and that issue that struck too close to home? it violates the advice that richard nixon gave to ronald reagan. don't ever comment on the iran-contra matter again. have instructions issued to all white house staffers and administration spokesmen again
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that they must never answer any question on or off the record about that issue in the future. that may be good advice if you can follow it. y you look at the authorities. is there any good reason it should take ten months? >> i don't think so. certainly, there can be reasons that you would want to protect sources and methods. but a warning should have been given to the states that they needed to take action to protect themselves and the citizens of their state in the future. they're in a race against time. we have elections of the here we have an election coming up in march. voters in this state want to know, is there vote going to count? is it going to be tampered with? i'll sure it is all the same across the country. >> it will be up to state and local governments to step up and
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make sure that this matter is investigated and that the systems are protected. so they can assure the citizens it won't happen again. point this is now, friday night. ten months later. and the feds say to the states individually, i can you might have heard 21. instead of just guessing and wondering, we're going to help you out now. i'm going to read from this. department of homeland security saying earlier this year hit evidence of russian activity but they fade to inform individual states whether they were thes one targeted. state officials finally contacted today, friday. >> one might deep it suspicious of the that they wasted no time deciding to launch a 50-state scheme to collect the private
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data of voters so they could stop fictional voter fraud because they wanted to prove that somehow donald trump really did win the popular vote and there were millions of fraudulent voters. they wasted no time impanelling a commission with known vote suppression experts on it. that didn't take any time at all. but dhs which was headed by the chief of staff, they couldn't get around to letting them know until this late in the game when there's another election coming up. chat control of the house and senate, meaning control of the committees that could pose a threat to this administration on the russia investigation, it took they will this long to get around to it so states could prepare? one might deep that odd and suspicious. that might elicit the order of the i haven't heard a good doefs
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why this would take ten months. we know how that works. they have all the deadlines, super urgent. they've got interesting priorities. and again, they are the people who been fitted from russian interference last time. they might have, even wanted to be more proactive. >> there is an old question. who benefits? we don't just do jamaican things. >> i was getting ready. >> eye going to ask you the question. i'm going to ask about the other big news. this focus on paul manafort. this may be bad for him without being as bad for trump. depending on your theory of the
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case. take a look at jeremy bash. >> it is possible that russia actually sent and dispatched paul manafort to the campaign. or least once he attached himself to the campaign, them our agent is on the inside. >> are you saying it is possible they'll want to find out if manafort was a russian plant? is that one of the questions they'll try to answer? >> absolutely. >> wow! that's really something. that would definitely be a primary purpose of the counter tension aspect. on the criminal side of it, which i know a lot of people are focused on, and as a former federal prosecutor, i will. i would say that would be explosive evidence that probably would not be admitted into a trial unless it was highly
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relevant. they would not be focused on the issues that matter for the particular crimes are charged. to me, one thing we found out this week from "the new york times" is that manafort is something that more intends to charge and he's told manafort that. >> exactly that. one thing we saw this week is that both ty cobb, the president's lawyer, and vice president pence, distanced themselves from paul manafort and i thought that was very interesting. what we saw for the first time is that the allegations had gotten so explosive, and i think it was right after the reporting of him offering special access to a russian billionaire, that now he's not somebody you want to keep in the fold. i would be telling my client, you need to be thinking about that. >> and it is clear. only when asked about a potential secret spy goes right
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into the evidentiary ruling and a potential trial. deep into the boring part of law school. that's why we love your expertise. they're telling me i'm way overtime. that happens with great guests. if could you interview anyone on your show, who would it be? >> i would go for hillary clinton. >> would you go for hillary clinton in. >> i would. >> that was the answer. joy he reid's show, tomorrow, 10:00 a.m. we'll tune in. thank you for joining us. >> i'm taking this with me. >> is that cleared? >> we have to ask. >> thank you both. i appreciate it. >> nothing uglier, up next, than a break-up. >> had but alas, ten months later, the swamp, it's trying to hijack this presidency of the you always pay your insurance on time.
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. i'm here to support the next president of the united states, donald trump. >> this is a woman from day one, i said if i ever do this, i have to get her support. she feels it. she understands it better than anybody. >> trump had pale's support then. but loyalty can be a one-way street. she is now lining up against trump's pick in alabama. trump rallying there tonight and trying to beat back the challenger of judge roy moore who has the backing of palin and bannon. >> i informed the judge's for many years of he was deplorable before deplorable was cool. >> that republican judge's career picks fights on marriage equality of he was kicked out of office over refusing to remove
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it from the courthouse. and jonathan, what does this tell us? >> it tells us, the republican party has been at war with the tea party when it lurched really hard to the right. well, now, it is lurching even more to the right. where you have two people who you don't who know to root for between luther strange and roy moore. so now it is a matter of the fringes of what used to be the fringes of the republican party having a battle with each other over who will take this seat. no matter what, whether roy moore has palin and bannon and luther strange has the president of the united states no, matter who wins that race, that's a vote for president trump. >> you have the mobsters rae scary and who will scare us.
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then when it comes in, maybe there is someone even scarier. this is a rae conservative senator backed by this pseudo republican president. but roy moore, for anyone who is following, has been ripping it up in politics for years. >> i think there are a can you please things that this reminds me of. first of all, i think the new york d.c. media, and i reize i'm a part of it so it is probably rich for me to indict at all. it is rich for a narrative and the narrative of palin versus bannon. hillary would have won 2016 in a land slide. >> wasn't she running against a bigger celebrity? >> if you look at all the people lined up, boys to men did an opening number for her.
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>> i was there. i think the narrative that this is celebrities versus celebrities is entertaining like professional wrestling is entertaining. what will matter is what they think of these two candidates. i think roy moore is the more colorful, the louder, the crazier one. i think he can outcrazy donald trump and that's more of the story. he is a bigger draw than luther strange because he is more interesting. >> and i buy that. and yet jonathan, what makes him more interesting is where the republican party is going. he literally preferred to have a talk radio parade around his ten commandments monument fight than holding the series. >> yeah, the ten commandments, he was also, like he was the chief judge of the state. when marriage equality was made law of the land, he sent a directive to his judges telling them to ignore the law.
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to ignore the supreme court. whether they'll vote for roy moore, a person who was previously said, is somebody that i think is as colorful is a nice way of saying somebody, a nice way of describing someone who seems to behave in a way where he feels that he is a law unto himself. and really, sometimes i think just from things i've read about him. he fees like god is on his side and that's a very dangerous place to be. >> we've launched into catalogue speech. also, he is totally lawless. you're coming back for fallback friday. >> i am? >> yes. >> jim comey out with his first public comments since his bombshell senate testimony.
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the strikingly designed lexus nx turbo and hybrid. lease the 2017 nx turbo for $299 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. jim comey has not spoken in public for 106 days until a speech today at howard university. >> our country is going through one of those periods where we're trying to figure out, who are we really and what do we stand for? i look forward to adult conversations about what is right and what is true. thank you. >> you can hear some protesters
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in the background. it could turn to slamming comey as not only a bad fbi director but potentially a criminal one. >> the president was right in firing director comey. we've learned new information about his conduct that only provided further justification for that firing. there's no secret, comey by his own self-admission, leaked secret information. his actions were improper and likely could have been illegal. >> would the president encourage the doj to prosecute comey? >> that's the job of the department of justice and something they should look at. >> trump white house did not provide any evidence that comey did anything illegal. they al trump said it was over russia. not illegal conduct. it all boiled down to loyalty and a pledge comey declined to make. that bombshell testimony sure to
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interesting mueller. er there are a.m. anonymous sources in washington but a key source came forward. legal expert, he said the source is, well, me. the blog that has become the place for serious legal analysis. he has gained some notoriety for his twitter countdowns of tick, tick, tick, boom. now he spends most of his time doing research and writing, not television, but he has agreed to join me on "the beat" today. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> when you look at this, where are we in the white house battle against him and have we sustain last of the effort to impugn his accuracy? >> i'm sure we have not seen the last of it.
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it was a long scheduled set of appearances that he would be making there throughout the academic years. so that has nothing to do with the timing of any of the attacks. the attacks are, you know, disgraceful and disgusting and they have been sort of the normal course of business for the white house. more or less since the time that he was dismissed. and you know, i don't really know what there is to say except this really isn't the way you would want a white house talking about a long serving public servant who particularly in the absence of any evidence to support any of the a gagss that they're making of the. >> one of the key questions was what was jim comey's state of mind as fbi director. in your conversations before the firing, what was his level of
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concern or inappropriate comment by donald trump? >> well, he was very concerned about the behavior of the president. and his interactions with law enforcement. and he, i think the last time i talked on him in office, he thought he had the situation under control and it had required a lot of what he called training of the white house about what the proper way to engage with law enforcement was. er i would require constant ving lance on his part. he made clear he thought it would be a very long few years. >> when you look at what we're learning about mueller's categories, 13 areas of request, from legal writing and reporting, pretty standard way
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to organize the investigation. when you see one of the categories is specifically donald trump's dealings with the russian ambassador, and reported reference to the firing of jim comey, someone as you know, what do you as a legal analyst think that tells us about what mueller's special counsel probe is looking at with regard to that contact. >> look, i think the investigation is clearly interested in the president's pattern of interaction with law enforcement, including comey, including the firing of jim comey, and including the way the president talked about that firing after the fact and i think as well, the interactions between that pattern of activity and some of the underlying matters that are the subject of
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separate investigation. so i think it is not surprising, if you behave this way, you put pressure on them and then you fire them when they don't deliver. and then you go to a foreign adversary power in the oval office and boast that you've relieved a lot of pressure. you're going to attract the interests of law enforcement when you do that. and i don't think anyone should be surprised that bob mueller takes that pattern of behavior very seriously. >> thank you for your expertise tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, how are we actually listening to people on the other side of the divide? getting your flu shot at walgreens is easier than ever. just walk right in and pay zero dollars with most insurance.
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the president was very receptive to listening of the. >> saying president trump listened to him during the discussion of trump's response to charlottesville. within a day trump reiterated his both sides comment about white supremacists suggesting trump may not have been listening all that well at all. there are reports he is one of the least attentive people to ever occupy the white house. but is he setting a wider tone? we know humans aren't great at listening to begin with. we forget half of what we hear in a day and only 25% in the long run. people on the left and right are motivated to avoid even hearing from the other side. both sides hearing different views will cause frustration or alter the reality they want to hold in their minds.
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joining me now, gabe who doesn't report interviews, saying he listens better. always an honor to have you here. >> if i may speak as not a political person. the people you have on are so sing a because they're on your show. let me say that donald trump is probably in our lifetime, the worst listener. but -- >> the worst. >> he would not be donald trump. when you think of trump, his towering achievement is that he listens to nobody ever. but he is a man of his time. we're part of a narcissistic age. we have the narcissistic president running our tie
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whether you like it or not. i think in the history of nonlisteners, if you go back. i'll bet napoleon was not a listener. castro. if you would listened to anybody, how he would ever have conquered cuba. a combination of evel knievel or rocky stallone. he is like a wire, walks across wire. there's something not admirable but something impressive about trump's ability to listen to nobody and get where he otherwise would not have gone. >> you're saying he might connect with a very superficial culture. you as someone who does listen, how do we get out from this? you don't want journalists to take the example of this president, if that's no listening. >> the problem is that in order to stop people who are so single minded as trump. you have to have people who have
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a sense of conviction that matches his own blusering the way. and you that. people who are nonlisteners do not know how to deal with a nonlistener. he is such a has such a forcefu personali personality. but if he listened to anybody, which he hasn't, he wouldn't be in the white house. >> that's the thing about it. i think historians will look back and say he did get this far, at least through the electoral college and that is a ratification of something. but that's like fraudulent advertising can work. it doesn't mean it's where you want everything to go. let me play for you trump explaining why he doesn't need to listen to the best experts that we have. >> i don't have to to be told -- i'm a smart person. i don't have to be told the same thing and the same words every single day for the next eight years. i don't need that. >> he's saying he doesn't need
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daily intelligence briefings. >> contrary to our expectations or aspirations, the guy is right. i hate to say he's right and i hate to say that i'm saying things that are probably going to offend your audience -- >> well our audience listens closely. they're open minded. >> this society we're in doesn't listen either. sometimes you go to the opera or the baseball game, people aren't watching a belay. they're watching the cell phone. who's calling me. >> how do we change it? >> you can't change what works for people. what works for people is a sense of self. we here in a nation that's very self centered in the world of self centeredness. i'm not saying everybody is condemned to it or everybody should be included in this. but we're in a period now that has to be addressed with some distance, not political day by day but some distance historically. why did trump get to be where
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trump is. sadly he got to where he is because he believed only he knew the answer. >> as the saying goes -- >> it's not what we want to hear but here we are. >> the hour calls for optimism. we'll save pessimism for better times. >> thank you. nice to see you. >> i always love when you come by. >> you're such a successful guy, i delaware not differ with you. >> fallback friday is next.
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it has been a week. it is friday.
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and you know what ma meathat me it's time to fall back. to fall back. sit a chance to tell someone to chill out, relax or maybe even reassess poor choices you've made at least this week. we have a gangbusters panel, nancy giles, podcast on itunes. >> giles, but that's okay. >> telling you to fall back. >> step off. >> david lead who we saw earlier in the show, a comedian of sorts. nancy who needs to fall back? >> it was a little confused about fall back and step off. i kept calling it step off friday. everybody who is criticizing jimmy kimmel saying he's an elitist and saying he has a hollywood person, what does he know, should really fall back. trump's cabinet filled with elite, abused airplanes left and
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right, trump bankrupted the secret service, it's sort of strange to look at privileged talking to a guy like jimmy kimmel who is speaking straight from the heart that is simple and basic as health care. >> speaking as a father. >> that's right. >> i hope they fall back and let's let everyone into the health care debate. who needs to fall back, erin? >> once again gwyneth paltrow. her website, i was perusing it and saw they were selling a psychic vampire repellant elixir of protect tiff mist used gem infused and deeply therapeutic oils reported to banish bad vibes and shield you from the people who may be causing them. it can safeguard your aura. those are things that people believe exists it costs $30 but
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unfort lunately if you want to y it, it's sold out. >> have you ever found anything good on her website? >> no. >> it fels veels very proud of g well. i don't think it's a good look. >> david, who needs to fall back. >> sean spicer. this has been a week when he's been around way too much. there's a template that you follow when you've done something disgraceful as a political figure. you take time off, grow a beard. and he said this week that people are questioning his integrity and that's over the top. that's questioning whether or not i can dunk a basketball. will's no question. he has no integrity. it's done and he needs to think about his life choices before he reenters life. >> all the way back out of the news cycle. >> fall back into a reality series and a book deal and a fragrance line. that's what they all do. >> you want to know who i think needs to fall back? >> tell me, who needs to fall back, step off.
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>> don't rename the segment. it's not that kind of party. the state of california needs to fall back because of this video game. this is a real video game of usain bolt that gator sade put out. california sued them saying this was anti-hydration and ant water and gatorade settled. they have a point. the issuing kbar in day soreade is off the charts. you get more issuing ger out of that than a snickers. but this is what california should be doing? >> no. they should be saving their money -- they could spend that money on actual watt tore water people's lawns and what not. >> it's a weird one. let people make video games even if they promote sugary drinks. >> it's over the counter ed ae
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roll. >> i hope you had a great week. that does it for the beat. i will see you here monday night 6:00 eastern. hardball with chris matthews is up next. feeling the pressure. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the special counsel probe is close in on the white house and with each turn of the vice robert mueller makes it more clear that the president is at risk. also today senator john mccain of arizona has dealt what could be a death blow to the republican plan to repeal oba obamaca obamacare. mccain announced that he can't vote for the republican plan which which was scheduled to come up with a vote next week.

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