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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  September 30, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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the state department's reluctance to say what is going on now. and why they took this big set of dramatic new measures they have never taken before. imagine if one of your family members is one of those essential state department personnel that's being left behind, how do you feel about that? is the state department ensuring its safety? >> without any explanation as to why they've taken this dramatic action, it's just weird. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for the last word with joy reid filling in for lawrence tonight. >> every single thing about this administration's hemispheric relations is strange. >> we had the mayor of san juan
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on, and she talked about the u.s. response to haiti. for all the trouble she's saying, i envy that response? >> it's heart breaking, listening to her speak on your show. it's heart breaking. >> thank you so much, rachel, have a great weekend opinion. donald trump says tom price is a good man, and the trump administration is doing a good job responding to the un folding catastrophe in puerto rico. >> i think he's a very fine person. i certainly don't like the optics. >> health and human services tom price has resigned. >> it's the kind of thing that really makes people mad about washington. the idea that they're living high on the hog on our tax dollars and not doing people's business. >> price is paying the price, pun intended, because it's a bad week for trump.
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>> i'm not happy, okay? i can tell you, i'm not happy. >> millions of residents are still focusing on the bare essentials. food, water, fuel, money to get through sweltering days on an island devastated by hurricane maria. >> i am begging, begging anyone that can hear us to save us from dying. >> we have done an incredible job considering there's absolutely nothing to work with. >> the government is saying we have a lot of support but i don't see it. really. at least not yet. >> i am done being polite. i am done being politically correct. i am mad as hell. >> very satisfied, great job, incredible. those are some of the words that donald trump and administration officials used to describe their relief efforts in puerto rico. after the u.s. territory was devastated by hurricane maria. now, it should go without saying, but nothing is great,
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let alone incredible, about what's going on in puerto rico. the trump administration officials are facing a growing backlash over the sluggishness of the federal response as well as for tone deaf remarks like this one by elaine duke, the acting homeland security secretary during a thursday press conference. >> i am very satisfied. i know it's a hard storm to recover from, but the amount of progress that's been made and i really would appreciate any support that we get. i know it is really, a good news story in terms of our ability to reach people and the limited number of deaths that have taken place in such a devastating hurricane. >> a good news story. just let that sink in for a moment. make no mistake about it. the situation in puerto rico is dire. roughly half the residents still without running water. just 36 of puerto rico's 69 hospitals are open and have power. millions of people, again, u.s.
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citizens, are increasingly desperate and begging for help, literally. a trump administration official is concerned about good press. after a day of bad news stories about elaine duke's response, she had a different message today. >> clearly, the situation here in puerto rico, after the devastating hurricane is not satisfactory, but together, we are getting there and the progress today is very, very strong. >> while acting secretary duke seems to have learned something from the criticism, her boss, the president? well, he still is donald trump. this morning, he tweeted out, more self-congratulatory praise. the administration and the president, every time we've spoken, they've delivered. the fact is that puerto rico has been destroyed by two hurricanes. big decisions will have to be made as to the cost of its rebuilding, exclamation point. if you didn't catch that, in addition to highlighting positive comments about himself, trump also cast doubt whether
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washington would even lend a hand to repair the damage to the u.s. territory of puerto rico. there's a big question mark over that at the moment with a spokesman for fema telling nbc news that administrators want to assess the damage before committing to fixing public infrastructure. during the speech this morning, trump muddied the waters even further on whether puerto rico will get that assistance. >> the government of puerto rico will have to work with us to determine how this massive rebuilding effort will end up being one of the biggest ever will be funded and organized and what we will do with the tremendous amount of existing debt already on the island. >> hours after that speech, trump was answering questions on the white house lawn about the administration's relief efforts. and at the very same time, in
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san juan, the city's mayor, carmen cruz was speaking about the administration's efforts. and the difference in their responses is worth listening to. here's what trump said. >> unbelievably generous. he's been praising our efforts and this is a very difficult situation. this is a total devastation. i can tell you this. we have done an incredible job considering there's absolutely nothing to work with. >> and here's san juan mayor carmen cruz. >> we are dying here. and i cannot fathom the thought that the greatest nation in the world cannot figure out logistics for a small island of 100 miles by 35 miles long. so may day, we are in trouble.
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i have been very respectful of the fema employees. i have been patient, but we have no time for patience anymore. so i am asking the president of the united states to make sure somebody is in charge that is up to the task of saving lives. i will do what i never thought i was going to do. i am begging, begging anyone that can hear us to save us from dying. if anybody out there is listening to us, we are dying. and you are killing us with the inefficiency and the
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bureaucracy. >> joining us on the phone from san juan puerto rico is jordyn holman. a business reporter for bloomberg. it's pretty stark hearing the mayor of an american city -- not since katrina have we heard that kind of plea to the american government for help. donald trump says the relief effort is going quite well. and the mayor of san juan said it's dire. who's right? >> i've been talking to a lot of citizens down here in the past few days in san juan and other rural towns on puerto rico and it really does sound like the mayor is right. a lot of people here just have not seen fema or felt like they were getting the deliveries they've been promised. they are waiting in long lines, all day trying to get gas and taking money out of atms and food from the grocery stores. it's a very arduous process.
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>> we're hearing reports -- what about the situation for schools and for kids? because, of course, this is a time when they would normally be in school. >> it is. and they're not in school. you know, the last time a major hurricane hit puerto rico in the '80s and school was out for three weeks. i was talking to some parents today, they think it might be two months. and so that puts parents in a difficult space. they don't want the kids to fall behind in school. but also, they don't have anywhere to go. the parents are looking for jobs, so the kids are out in the street. >> if you would just explain to folks who, you know, obviously these pictures are remarkable, but the damage to the actual physical infrastructure. how extensive is that? >> so the highway is pretty much cleared but when you go to the rural town, there's still trees laying around. utility poles are leaning over like a ladder. so the roads are pretty bad when you get into the mountainous
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areas of the island. i was talking to some truckers trying to get this aid and food and ice to people out in those areas and they say you have to be very brave to try to even get, to drive there. >> wow, well, jordyn holman. thank you. >> thank you. >> born and raised in puerto rico, just returned from the island earlier this week after a three day visit. also joining us is idir idira laksiman, a columnist for the boft ing globe. i want to start where we just ended with jordyn. the physical infrastructure damage. is there enough when you were there? did you actually see federal agencies on the ground, u.s. military on the ground attempting to address those infrastructure issues? >> no, not at all. i was there last weekend through tuesday and there was absolutely
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no presence of any sort of federal agency or fema that i could see. now, let's be clear. this is a hurricane that we knew was going to hit the island. we could track its progress for over a week. we knew it was a category 5. we knew it was going to be a straight on, dead on hit on the island and it was going to be catastrophic. so the fact that there was no effort to even be ready, once that hurricane hit, to be sending aid and have assistance on the ground is reprehensible. that is talking about the mismanagement and lack of empath think and understanding, or even having a plan. this is real sheer chaos and there's no empathy coming from the administration and the fact he was, last weekend at a golf resort, this weekend at a golf resort when this is happening to 3.4 million u.s. citizens really speaks to the lack of interest on his part and even attention to something that is so critical and is dire. it really is. and it's just, doesn't seem to be really getting be better.
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with only 10,000 people on the ground between troops and relief workers. when we had 40,000 in florida with irma. 30,000 with texas in harvey and international solidarity, 20,000 troops in haiti which was great. this pales in comparison, there is benign neglect happening to the residents and the citizens of puerto rico. >> one more sound bite. rachel maddow had the mayor with the confusion in the federal response. let's take a listen. >> i was getting questions for fema of what are my priorities? it seems pretty simple. you save lives with food, water, and medical supplies. it just doesn't seem like the most powerful nation in the world could be incapable of just
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having in the 100x35 mile long the ability to put fuel into hospitals. >> how does the administration explain the inability to do those basic things? >> i really empathize with the mayor. my heart goes out to her and everyone in puerto rico because it's a stunning dissonance to hear the president boasting about this supposedly fantastic response from the federal government. i mean, what it brings to mind for me is 12 years ago when president bush was roundly ridiculed for saying after hurricane katrina, heck of a job, brownie, speaking about his fema administrator. remember how that one statement came to haunt him so much, and epitomize what was seen as a slow response by washington to the katrina crisis. here's a situation where as the mayor pointed out, you know, the response to haiti and natural disasters and other countries, not to mention the response to hurricane harvey in texas and hurricane irma here in florida was so much stronger than it has been.
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at the beginning, it was almost as if trump was sort of a.w.o.l. he was at the bedminster trump new jersey resort, tweeting about nfl players and alabama, the primary for the republican primary there. and we didn't hear anything about the response to 3.4 million americans living in puerto rico. on the one hand, about half of americans don't even realize that puerto ricans are american citizens and that leads to a lot of neglect that we were just talking about. >> donald trump, you know, did business on the island of puerto rico. he used to run a golf course there and presumes he knows where it is. this was donald trump talking about it today and sort of trying to explain the difficulty apparently in his mind of getting to puerto rico. this is donald trump in big water. >> this is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water. >> big water.
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can we just show the map of puerto rico in relationship to the united states? it's not far away from the united states, if you just look at that map, you can see where puerto rico is in relationship to the united states. donald trump saying it's the big water that's preventing the response from being better. your thoughts? >> i mean, it's just, you have to laugh at this. it's just, mind boggling. this is an individual who is incredibly ignorant, doesn't really understand or have any sense of context or understanding of issues. can't pay attention. doesn't seem to have an attention span to really understand the severity and who is, you know, i say very lowly, like, he exhibits sociopathic behavior. this lack of empathy and being unable to understand what people are feeling and being able to empathize in anyway. it's horrible. the fact that within all of this context, this pain and suffering and dying that is happening,
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that he would even talk about costs of the rebuilding opinion. >> and then he goes on to economic issues. >> it's incredible, right? when that was not being discussed with texas where he said 75%, we're going to take care of the infrastructure and we're going to build. again, this narrative of people of color and immigrants, migrants but immigrants, being drains on the u.s. economy. we don't have anything to contribute, that we have to wait and see, we're going to help you out. i mean, this is incredible. this is racist. i truly believe it. prejudice behavior now implemented to policy and it really is costing us so much. >> and you know, indira, one would want to believe that is not the reason for what definitely looks like neglect, but you also have the situation in the u.s. virgin islands, which isn't much better. and we weren't able to find much news about what's happening there. and it's not like -- the virgin
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islands, also an american territory has been covered in glory. >> one thing we see in common here is that people who live in puerto rico and the u.s. virgin islands do not have the ability to vote in the general election for president and i think so it's not only about the color of their skin, but the second class citizenship that is extremely unfortunate. i think that if they had a vote, if they had a sway in the electoral college, that would make a difference. puerto ricans living on the u.s. mainland have a vote. in florida or new york or anywhere else, they have a vote. but puerto rico, they don't. i think that also influences the president's response in this case. but this is a much larger problem here as she says, a lack of empathy but putting blame on puerto rico itself. you have a debt problem and see how much we can do to help you. it's incredible. >> the last word. >> the 1 million puerto ricans live in florida. it's the largest population outside of the island at the moment, so we have to be the voice for the island. we have to be the voice and put
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the pressure on the administration and i believe that within the congressional delegation and the senate delegation in florida, they're going to understand that this has consequences. >> that's absolutely right. people are not going to forget. melissa, thank you very much and indira, thank you both for joining us. price cut. health and human services secretary tom price out of a job and back to flying commercial. later, it begins. robert mueller's team goes to the white house. a new report details why the white house counsel almost quit over jared kushner. oh, you brought butch. yeah! (butch growls at man) he's looking at me right now, isn't he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions.
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by the way, you're going to get the votes? you better get them. he better get them. otherwise i'll say, tom, you're fired. i'll get somebody. >> and today, tom price, the health and human services secretary, resigned. becoming the first cabinet secretary to leave the trump administration. technically, it wasn't health care that took him down. price resigned after days after scrutiny for jetting around the country on private planes. according to some estimates, his private jet trips gobbled up more than $1 million of taxpayer money. in his resignation letter price said, i regret that the recent events have created a distraction. the president today accepted price's resignation making don
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j. wright the current hhs secretary, the acting secretary. the budget director mick mulvaney sent a letter to the rest of trump officials reminding them of something you'd think they know. they're public servants. every penny we spend from the taxpayer and owe it to the taxpayer to work hard managing that money wisely as the taxpayer must do to earn in the first place. put another way, just because something is legal, doesn't make it right. that's a lesson several other trump cabinet secretaries might want to take to heart. steve mnuchin, scott pruett, ryan zinke and david shulkin all under fire for their swank can i travel as well. not just the guilded trump cabinet doing the spending but the trump kids annual aspen, the fancy vacation cost some $300,000. joining us down, the opinion writer for the "washington post" and msnbc contributor and politics reporter for the daily beast. so, you know, jonathan, this is
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an administration that's come in saying they were going to go after waste, fraud, abuse, we can't afford food stamps. can't afford health care. they live high on the hog. did tom price pay the price for living too well on the public dime or your view, was it living too high in the public dime plus health care didn't pass? >> it's that, but also, the other thing you left out, getting bad headlines that reflected poorly on the president. we have a president who cares only about what his headlines are and so a couple of days ago, joy, i tweeted out, let's be clear here. president trump is not upset by what secretary price did. he's upset by the negative press caused by what secretary price did, and so with all the people that you mentioned who also have their sort of flight gate problems, flying around on private planes at the expense of taxpayers, only secretary price is the one who's had to walk the
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plank and it didn't help that health care, trumpcare went down in a ball of flames, again. but i don't think we're going to see any of those other people you mentioned walking the plank in the way that secretary, i'm sorry, former secretary price did. >> we'll see what happens if tax reform doesn't go through and then steve mnuchin, his travel might look more interesting. betsy, price did try to reverse the headlines. he tried to sort of clean them up. he offered to pay back $51,887 but not the full cost of the planes. just the cost of his seat. is there any evidence that effort might have made trump look weak? >> i haven't seen any evidence suggesting that and my sense here very much is that the planes were basically just an excuse for the president to fire secretary price.
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my understanding is that there was little love lost between price and president trump. these are two very different men. price is southern, very conservative and he's very much in the paul ryan mold when it comes to how public figures present themselves and how they perform their work. meanwhile, donald trump, of course, dispositionally, extremely at odds with that. my sense is that their relationship was never a particularly warm one and then when you couple that with the fact that price became the face of this huge failure to appeal the affordable care act, it actually, this plane crisis was sort of my sense, the sense that i get from having conversations with folks is that it was a convenient reason for the president to shuttle off price but remember, the president has an extraordinarily high comfort level with controversies. this is a guy who is willing to give the benefit of the doubt to white supremacists in charlottesville. the idea he's worried about the
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bad pr from people on fancy planes doesn't pass the lab test. >> he hired a lot of billionaires for people concerned about optics, jonathan and not only -- price is not the only one. but you had kellyann conway from dulles to philly and back, about $25,000. she did that as well. you had steve mnuchin who had his own issues with spending and you had ryan zinke who back in july, who's made trips that were expensive and you had mike pence who, his super bowl trip cost taxpayers about 89 grand. it's not as if price is the only one, nor is he the only big spending billionaire. it had to be something more, right? >> it had to be something more. the disaster that was trumpcare, i agree with betsy, it was probably part of it. but here's the thing. just broadly speaking, joy, that makes this whole thing so galling, donald trump ran for president saying we're going to drain this swamp.
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secretary price was one of these people who was on record bee moaning sort of the profligate ways of washington, and he's drummed out over his use of private planes, and like playing ran thely using private planes. would you take a plane from philadelphia to new york or? i would never take a plane from philadelphia to washington. to my mind, that shows just this unbelievable disconnect between, you know, the words that they say when they're in congress and then suddenly, they are wrapped in the trappings of power and then suddenly, they see these planes and they take advantage of them. they have lost their way when their message that got them into office is completely ignored and they forget that this money they're spending isn't theirs. it's the taxpayer's. this is ultimately going to be yet another problem for the
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president because people are going to start maybe one day paying attention to the fact that the words from the campaign and the words from the administration don't match the actions of either. >> betsy, i was talking earlier on chris hays show about the idea that trump is almost teflon to his base. there's nothing he can do that would upset them. they see his gold palace as aspirational, they're fine with it. but at a certain point, when you have so many cabinet members. it's pruitt or zinke or the treasury secretary, it's the vice president, they're all living high on the hog on the taxpayer dime. at a certain point, does the trump voter say, wait a minute, they're laughing at me. they're using this money, they're using these jobs as a way to pad their lifestyles and they're literally just sort of laughing in the face of those who wanted to drain the swamp. >> my sense is that trump voters only say that if trump himself says that and part of american culture is almost this glorification, idolization of extraordinary levels of wealth. that explains so much of the
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entertainment we consume, the reality tv that we watch. the word here is aspiration. so the fact that mnuchin's wife was posting designers, i don't think it would trouble the trump base and if it was going to, we would see them different. the reality is, melania trump, the first lady, ivanka, none of these people are trying to hide the fact that they're extraordinarily wealthy. as long as the president's comfortable with it, i think his voters are going to be comfortable with it. thus far, i've not seen any indications that the president's opulent lifestyle is going to be a liability for him when it comes to his cabinet members, the only question is, does he decide to say it's a problem? as he did in the case of secretary price or stick up and try to change the conversation? >> i'm old enough to remember when they claim government workers were all overpaid and we needed a hiring freeze and they
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didn't deserve the money they were making. had to bust the unions. and pay themless. i remember that, from long ago. sorry, we're out of time. but quickly, jonathan, go on. >> really quickly, let no one begrudges being wealthy in the government. that's not the issue here. but just one shoutout to secretary betsy devos who is wildly wealthy, flies on a private plane, but it's her private plane, period. >> there we go. and a shoutout. betsy woodruff, thank you for joining us. coming up, donald trump claims he won't benefit from his tax proposal at all. he could show his tax returns and prove it. the billionaires in his cabinet stand to benefit a whole lot. -ahh. -the new guy. -whoa, he looks -- -he looks exactly like me. -no. -separated at birth much? we should switch name tags, and no one would know who was who. jamie, you seriously think you look like him? uh, i'm pretty good with comparisons.
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my administration is working every day to lift the burdens on our companies and on our workers so that you can thrive, compete, and grow and at the very center of that plan is a giant, beautiful, massive, the biggest ever in our country tax cut. >> the tax cut will be giant, beautiful, massive. if your name is donald trump. if you remember the american middle class, not so much. "the new york times," it would save trump more than $1 billion in taxes including the money he would get to leave tax free to whichever trump children make it into the will. ivanka, the lion hunters, tiffany? elimination of the estate tax and save the commerce secretary
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wilbur ross $545 million according to bloomberg and save the father-in-law of trump education devos $900 million and save linda mcmahon and vince mcmahon $250 million. the average american? it could raise your taxes. today, the non-partisan tax policy center found by 2027, taxes would rise for roughly 0.25% of taxpayers including those between $150,000. many thought it would be more leek this. >> my plan is for the working people, and my plan is for jobs. no, i don't benefit. i don't benefit. >> you don't think -- >> in fact, very, very strongly, as you see, i think there's very
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little benefit for people of wealth. >> back with us is jonathan, and katherine. claims he has plan is for the meddle class. it's clear it's for the very, very wealthy. but he can sell et to he has to his base anyway, right? >> the thing about being a populist, you have to do things that are popular. usually, that's helpful. if you look at the polling about tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for corporations, they are not popular, even amongst republicans. large shares of republicans, majorities even, depending what poll you look at believe the taxes should be raised on corporations and the wealthy. so no, i think it will be very hard sell for his base. >> this is when they find out in the lower brackets they get the taxes increased. jonathan, one of the things donald trump loves to do is just brag and here he is today talking about the wild economic growth under his presidency. >> gdp growth hit over 3% last quarter was just adjusted
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yesterday and is now at 3.1%, a number that hasn't been seen in a very, very long time and a number that's way ahead of schedule. >> he also tweeted gdp was revised to 3.1 last quarter. and many people thought it would be years before that happened. we have just begun, well, in fact, quarterly growth was 3% or higher 8 different times under president barack obama, most recently when it was 3.3%. so that's not even true. >> yes, the president as you showed in the inning electro, he loves his superlatives. everything is the biggest, the best, and never happened before he became president. and yet despite all the evidence to the contrary, that we can see with our own eyes. he's proven wrong. but in the world of trump, it seems it doesn't matter. and in that world of trump, it's just not the president. but the supporters who stick
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with him no matter what he does or what he says. he said right there. on air. just now. i don't benefit by this at all. and we know now that it is not true. there are many members of his administration who will benefit greatly from this if and the people who need to hear this and understand this and take this all in, either won't hear it or won't believe it when they're presented with the evidence. >> yeah. and katherine, you also have this thing that republicans want to do which is punish blue states, with state income taxes and essentially, it's a transfer of wealth to states who don't have income taxes. so the top ten in terms of value of the state to local tax deduction. it's a map of who would if hurt the most. new york, new jersey, connecticut, california, maryland, rhode island, you get the idea. hurting those states by hurting
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their taxpayers. i guess republicans think that's a winning strategy too. >> i don't think they think it's a winning strategy. they just know they need to have offsets somewhere, because this bill would be so expensive. and the other sources of revenue they had planned on, things like the border adjustment tax which everybody has forgotten about, that's not going to happen. the obamacare repeal. that was also effectively a form of an offset. that's not going to happen. the reason they're going after the state and local tax deduction, maybe stick it to blue states. possibly, that's a motivation but i think it would be that is difficult because in the blue states, there are still republican representatives. there are republican representatives in new jersey who are going to fight this tooth and nail. so i think it's a mistake to think that that's going to be so easy for them to get through. >> yeah. tax reform is not easier than health care. sorry, republicans. thank you for joining us. coming up next, tick, tick tick.
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i also believe that there is damaging evidence that people on his team sought to and were eager to work with the russians. >> special counsel robert mueller's investigation is starting to accelerate. fox news reports tonight investigators have begun questioning white house staffers. sources say that retired lieutenant general keith kellogg, the chief of staff with national security counsel, was interviewed on thursday. questioning covered former national security adviser mike flynn. fox also reports federal agents and congressional investigators are looking at a trump campaign national security meeting in march of 2016 at washington dc's old post office. now the site of trump international hotel. team mueller is also reportedly expected to interview former white house chief of staff reince priebus and political reports that mueller himself recently talked to a lawyer for vice president mike pence. in 26 days, we'll hear our first public testimony from a member of donald trump's inner circle. donald trump's long time personal lawyer michael cohen
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will testify to the senate judiciary committee and agreement to subpoena former trump campaign manager paul manafort if necessary. senate intelligence committee isn't happy jared kushner did not reveal his private e-mail use and asked him to search his e-mail account for anything related to the russia probe. tonight, "the wall street journal" with a new report about the white house council nearly quitting over jared kushner. the journal reports white house council was so frustrated over the lack of protocol between meetings between president trump and jared kushner, west wing expressed concerns the top lawyer would quit according to people familiar with the conversations.
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and i am a senior public safety my namspecialist for pg&e. my job is to help educate our first responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. joining me now is walter dellinger. he served in the clinton administration as assistant the attorney general from 1993 to 1996 and was acting solicitor general from 1996 to 1996. thank you for being here. i want to get right to the last thing that we talked about here and that is don mcgone the white house concern that meetings between jared kushner and other members of the administration
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could be construed as trying to coordinate their stories. could that in and of itself put jared kushner in some sort of legal jeopardy? >> i think it's a difficult time to be white house counsel. it's a demanding job under any circumstance and i think the dynamic that you have here, joy, is that. if there's an investigation on what happened during the campaign, and so many people from the campaign go into the white house, a part of government service, and are working together, it gets very hard to separate out the investigation into the campaign with what's going on in the white house. and any white house counsel would be concerned if there were communications going on between the president and someone who was under investigation. well, if that someone happens to be a family relative, like a son-in-law, it gets very, very difficult to separate those strands out. but it would be understandable if a white house counsel did not
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want to be serving in the white house anyone who was under investigation. >> does the white house counsel enjoy attorney/client privilege with donald trump? can he be made to talk to robert mueller himself? >> no. i think it's generally been understood, you have some different circuit courts going different ways on this. but my understanding was always, every lawyer for the united states has only one clients and that client is the united states. so that the president is not the white house council's client. the united states of america is his client and that's true of all the lawyers of the government. there may be other kind of privileges at the margin, but not attorney client privilege. >> what does it say to you that you now have this reporting that bob mueller's team is now interviewing white house staffers and that even mike pence might have already talked to bob mueller and been interviewed over the summer? does that tell you that this is heading toward some sort of
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outcome that could involve indictments? >> well, you know, we'll find out. i think we may only know the tip of the iceberg. we get some information about what's happening with robert mueller's investigation through who we know has been publicly reported that he's investigating. but this may be the tip of the iceberg. there may be more things we don't know. some may be exculpatory. some may be more incriminatory. but i think it's going to be -- you know, we'll find out at the end of the process. >> i think one of the questions people just want to know, when they're thinking about this. could a sitting president of the united states, if he's found to have obstructed justice, could he or his vice president actually in reality be indicted? >> i think it's been established that a vice president can be indicted, like all other officers with whom they're serving, that was established with richard nixon's vice president, spiro agnew. you can't put a president on trial while he's serving in
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office. we have to remember, we need these rules for presidents we love as much as for presidents we loathe. because a president, unlike the other branches of government, has nondelegatable duties, it would interfere too much with the executive branch to put a president on trial. now, it could be, though, the office of legal counsel has ruled to the contrary, it could be a president could be indicted without going forward. without going forward with the prosecution. and that would serve a very valuable purpose of not letting the statute of limitations run on any crimes. generally you have to bring criminal charges within five years. for tax evasion it would be six years. indicting a president but not going forward would at least stop the statute of limitations. a wise special counsel may decide it's wise to submit a report to the attorney general, in this case deputy attorney
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general rosenstein. it would be up to the deputy attorney general to decide whether or not to send that report on to congress. but surely he would. surely he would be under immense pressure, he would have to do that. >> fascinating stuff, water dillinger, thank you for joining us. have a great weekend. >> thank you. tonight's last word is next. rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief uses unique mistpro technology and helps block 6 key inflammatory substances with a gentle mist. most allergy pills only block one. and 6 is greater than one. rethink your allergy relief. flonase sensimist. ♪ fixodent plus adhesives. there's a denture adhesive that holds strong until evening. just one application gives you superior hold even at the end of the day
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when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. i just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. my insurance company definitely doesn't have that... you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. i notice last night or i was told, i didn't see it, but i heard everybody stood for the national anthem.
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and that shows respect for our country, our flag. and for the national anthem. so, you know, i'm very happy. i heard that. and they should stand. you have to stand. it's our national anthem. you have to stand. >> and a new poll today shows that a majority of americans do not agree with donald trump that players should stand. 46% say not standing for the national anthem disrespects freedom but 45% say not standing demonstrates the freedoms that the anthem represents. 49% say the professional sports league should require athletes to stand during the national anthem but 47% say they should not. but here's what big majorities of americans do agree on. 60% say protests by probably professional athletes are effective. and 60% agree that donald trump was wrong to criticize those athletes for protesting. last night, i was a guest on this show, talking about nfl players being on the field during the national anthem. during the discussion, i said that there was a defense
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department deal that forced these players to go out on the field and make a patriotic display of themselves. today the nfl pushed back, saying that isn't the way it worked at all. and so we asked for a clarification. an nfl spokesman insisted that the 2009 decision by the league to have all the players on the field for the anthem during all games wasn't connected to the deals the department of defense made with individual nfl teams between 2011 and 2015 to pay for patriotic displays at games. the nfl says the decision to have the players on the field for the anthem had nothing to do with the dod. well, okay. but we know about those separate pentagon deals because they were revealed in a 2015 report commissioned by senators john mccain and jeff flake of arizona. their report revealed that the pentagon was in fact paying teams in various sports leagues millions of dollars for what the senators called paid patriotism. the dod said it was for recruitment.
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senator mccain's statement at the time said the dod paid for on-field color guard performances, enlistment and reenlistment ceremonies, performances of the national anthem, full field flag displays and ceremonial first pitches and puck drops. about the contract, senator mccain added, fans should have confidence that their hometown heroes are being honored because of their honorable military service not as a marketing ploy. just so we're clear. catch me tomorrow morning at "a.m. joy." starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. "the 11th hour" is up next. breaking tonight. hhs secretary tom price is out, resigning after reports of his private plane travel paid for by taxpayers. tonight, what that means for the trump pledge to drain the swamp. also the president touts an incredible job on hurricane maria response, as the san juan mayor cries, we're dying here.

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