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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  October 2, 2017 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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country music album right now. it's a mainstream album in the united states. he spoke earlier on msnbc. he was actually on one of the side stages when the shooting happened. it gives you an idea, brian, so many of us are drawn to these music festivals because of the sounds, because of the sights. that then becomes a disadvantage when you have a horrible event like this gunfire because it's so difficult to determine the different sounds. take a listen to what luke combs said. ♪ >> so, you had performed earlier. you were not on the stage when this happened. where were you? >> i was on the stage. i was -- i had just walked up on the stage with a couple friends of mine, one being luke combs, another artist that played earlier. we were literally standing 50 feet away from where jason was on stage. all of of a sudden you heard what sounded -- you know, it was kind of the thing where it's like, is that gunfire? and it just -- it got faster and
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faster. almost like it sounded like an automatic rifle. you could hear it ringing off the tops of the rafters of the stage. that's when you saw people fleeing. at that point everyone on stage started running everywhere possible. it was pretty chaotic, for sure. >> obviously, it's not just the people at the festival who are pouring out online. carrie underwood said, i woke up to such horrible news. praying for family. keith urban, our hearts and prayers are with everyone involved and affected. this country music community, such a massive part not just of america but american culture, now rocked by what is just a horrific event. >> haunting video from onstage where everyone realizing kind of at the same time what sounds like clicking in the back of that social media video is, in fact, rounds being fired. in some cases hitting the pavement in front of the stage,
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pavement where people weren't standing. sadly, way too many people were hit. thank you very much, cal perry. for viewers just joining us, we just passed into the 1:00 p.m. hour eastern time. you see at the bottom of the screen the grim numbers. they've been getting worse as the day has grown on. 58 souls lost last night. 58 people now confirmed dead. over 500 wounded in this shooting in las vegas. about this man, the gunman, not much is known. as you see, sources are reporting the gunman fired out of two different hotel windows. we've been showing that all day. then he broke them out to do that. stephen paddock, his name, 64 years old. a fairly recent resident of mesquite, nevada.
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he was living in florida. decided to go back to nevada because of his allergies, apparently. his brother was interviewed outside his home in florida. referred to his brother, the gunman, who is now dead. in one of the most endear quotes of the day, he was just a guy. a phrase you hear all the time. in a way it expressed his brother's shock and surprise that he was capable of this. you also hear that all the time in this business. a massive trauma for las vegas. this was a sunday night music festival. as you can see, there was vip seating, tents up on the side to both sides of the stage and a large black stage. but in the middle were most of the general admission fans of the concert. that put them, sadly, in the line of fire.
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we're happy to be joined by a man who was an eyewitness to the shooting and has been willing to talk to us about it. bryan claypool is with us by phone from las vegas. brian, when did you realize that what you could hear were shots? >> well, brian, i'm sit negotiate mandalay bay as we speak. i finally made it back to the hotel. all the streets are closed off. the police allowed people staying here to get into the hotel. i was staying on the 24th floor. i shared elevator with this lunatic who massacred all these massive people. before the shots were fired, i was supposed to leave town sunday night at 7:50 and missed the evening event with jake owen and jason aldean. but one of the reasons why i stayed, brian, is because the view that i had from my room, i had the las vegas strip view,
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and i looked out and saw the entire complex for the route 91 haf harvest. it was beautiful. that's one of the reasons i moved my flight to this morning and stayed. we have a lunatic seven floors above me who looks at that same view and wants to kill with that view. that to me is so eerie. i stayed. i was sitting in the vip section you mentioned, close to the stage. i was in the front row. i initially heard a couple pops. i thought that might be fireworks or firecrackers. looked up in the sky. didn't see any smoke or any lighting, so i was worried. what was eerie, brian, is jason aldean kind of hesitated during that moment. he stopped singing for a few seconds. that worried me. that was a red flag. then i heard some more sounds that sounded like shots. wasn't sure. but the moment that seared my soul, brian s when i looked at jason aldean and he literally dropped -- threw his guitar
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down, dropped it to the floor and sprinted to the side. at that moment i jumped up and i was trying to make my way out. by the time i even got to the aisle to try to get out, that's when the first barrage of -- it felt it went on for 30 seconds. it was nonstop. just laying flat dourngs praying i don't get hit. trying to pull people down because a lot of people were frozen in the moment. they weren't moving. they were still sitting in their seats. they didn't realize what was going on. >> when did you notice people getting hit? >> what happened then, there was this onslaught of shots. it just felt like world war iii. it felt like it would never end, just one after the other, praying it would stop. finally it stopped about 30 seconds later. then i got up and i radar running down the stairs. i noticed one gentleman shot in the shoulder, another man shot in the center numb area.
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they were stumbling north away from the stage area. that's when a very heroic man summoned about 15 of us into a small little room that was kind of under the bleachers. looked like a production area under the bleachers. so, it was pick your poison at that moment. when you're in a situation like that, you're in split-second decision-making that could cost you your life or not. the poison i picked is i'm going to go in that room. i got in that room. my heart was broken. i initially got in and i see six young women probably in their early 20s, like 20 to 22, kneeling on -- they were on their knees, huddled in a corner crying hysterically. my heart was -- i get emotional talking about it. like, i had -- at that moment i went from, okay, i'm going to die to, wait a minute, i don't want to be like the orlando shooting because we're now in a small room. at that moment we didn't know where the shooter was. we thought they were right outside the fence. we were next to the fence.
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it's contiguous to las vegas boulevard. we're thinking someone is going to hop that fence and we're done because we're in that room and can't move. for a moment i'm thinking, oh, my god, i'm going to die like the orlando shooting. i have a little gishlgs 11 years old. then i shifted gears and i went into -- i said a prayer. i tried to calm these young women down. we waited until the second round of shooting stopped. thank god it stopped. i peeked my head out the door. that's the moment i felt most vulnerable because then i was facing the mandalay bay looking to see. thank god there was a police officer there. by the way, brian, police officers in las vegas, stellar. they are the most brave human beings you will ever imagine. one of the police officers is ready to hop the fence to go fight this shooter. he screams out, run to the north. run now. and that's when i summoned everybody out of that little room. then we ran further to the north to try to exit the arena that way. >> i don't think i've covered an
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event like this where more people said incredible things about the first responders in the moment. some in plain clothes, some off-duty, some uniform, but not with kef lvlar or riot gear. just police officers working the perimeter at an otherwise great event. and i am guessing security was about the last thing on your mind. it was a beautiful night in las vegas. >> brian, you raise a great point. your prior guest raised a great point. country music followers are the nicest on the planet. they're celebrating life. there was a moment about 15 minutes before the shooting where i actually -- i was about 10 feet away from the general admission section. i saw two las vegas police officers, i hope they survived. they were standing in the infield, talking, chitchatting with a couple girls, a couple guys. you know what i said to myself? i said, wow, they've got the easiest job in the planet.
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to go to this festival with all these wonderful people and they're nice and everybody's talking. what a great job they have. how ironic 20 minutes later i see one of the officers jumping that fence to go take on a shooter. it's mind-boggling. >> tell me more about the crowd. a lot of families, a lot of young people? >> brian, you ran the gamut. that's why i'm heartbroken. there were kids there. there were kids there with parents. there were teenagers. there were people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. i seen awesome elderly folks there. there was a cross-section of this country. every age group imaginable was at this festival. and that is what's so heartbreaking about the whole thing. i was just walking over here. it is somber. people still have their wristbands are, in tears. i'm ready to cross where it happened. that was a traumatic moment for me to come back to the scene of the crime.
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you know, i can't -- can't even imagine any -- not one person. there wasn't a mean bone in that festival last night. and for one person to lose their lives is absolutely devastating. >> we keep showing this picture of this wall of ambulances. it's among the sadder sights from last night because you know eventually they were all filled. eventually several of them made return trips. more than once. >> yeah, brian, brian, people were driving -- next couple next to me from austin, texas, over the two days i got to know while i was there. they made it to their car, pounding on their car. a woman shot in the stomach, begging to the transported to the hospital. somebody else picked her up and took her. this is something you see in a movie. you don't see in reality in the united states. on a positive note, it's hard to think positive in such a dark
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moment, but i will tell you, people stepping up, again, left and right. i mean, in that -- that gentleman at the door, his body was exposed. he's getting us in that room. people helping injured people who have been shot, police officers going to bat. i mean, if anything can be taken away from it, i mean, people in this -- we got a lot of racial divide now and the country is not getting along, but in the deepest, darkest moments last night, there were a lot of heroes. >> yeah, i'll go ahead and predict that if there were iraq and afghanistan veterans in that crowd, they probably made a huge difference, a, knowing how to handle nemesis incoming fire, b, knowing how to handle simpoundz treat them and address them immediately and make them survivable, perhaps. >> yeah. >> well, thank you, brian. i realize this is -- this is nasty stuff and horrible memories from last night.
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but people like you have really helped us kind of set the scene and realize -- narrating these pictures, these awful pictures we have been watching for hours now. brian kind enough to join us from las vegas. best of luck to you. thanks again. >> thank you, brian. >> among those who made their way out west to las vegas is lester holt. he's on the ground there. lester, i'm told you have a notable interview with a witness you talked to. >>. >> yeah a guy named mike cronk, a retired teacher from alaska. to pick up on the point you were just talking about, brian, you told me there were military people, off-duty or people with military experience who did at one point organize a plan of, we've got to get out of here, here is our route of escape. to that point there were people here that had some experience that certainly proved beneficial. that concert, like most concerts, you see this now,
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people taking videos of the concerts. in that case, it gave us -- made all of us, in many ways, witness to this horrific event. we saw the confusion, the rapid fire of the guns but we didn't experience the terror. i did talk to a number of people who did. one was mike cronk, there with friends. one of his friends was wounded. there was no choice, there was no running, he had to stick with his friend. here's some of what he told me a bit earlier. >> we were pretty much right up front facing the stage on the right side of the stage. pretty much right in the front. ten feet away from jason aldean when he was singing. >> reporter: when you heard the shots, did you recognize them as shots? >> the first volley -- i don't think anybody did. it sounded like fireworks going off. i think people thought it was part of the show. the second round my friend that was standing next to me got shot three times. he went down. and i immediately -- i'm from alaska, i hunt a lot. knew those gunshots weren't
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close. i knew they came from a hotel. we were screaming, get down on the ground. >> your instinct was get down, not run? >> yeah, my buddy is hit. i'm not leaving him. everyone got down on the ground. i think it continued, you know, timing like four minutes. i'm not sure. it seemed like 20 minutes, to be honest with you. once it stopped, you know, we were -- there was people i was with, that i knew. it was like, get out of here. you guys can get over the fence and get away. we're staying. there are so many people that stayed with the wounded. you know, you didn't know who they were. they stayed. there was a lot of heroes out there. >> obviously, you want to take cover. did you recognize the shots were coming from, a, on high and, b, from the building across? >> yes, i did. from the sound. from the sound of it. i knew it was from across the street. >> was there anyplace to take cover? >> no. just get down low so you're not a target. once it stopped people went over the railing, aluminum railing. that was sort sort of cover. once it stopped, pretty much
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everyone was gone and they trampled each other. we got the wounded over the fence and so we were in a safe spot to triage and help whoever needed help. >> how much were you able to help in terms of treating your friend? >> my buddy got shot. he had his finger in the bullet hole, so we're like, leave your finger in. we got shirts off and compressed it. he had a hands on him the entire time until he got to the ambulance. >> how long did you have to wait for rescue? >> we got him around but there were no ambulances coming through because it was a wide zone. we actually loaded four people in the back of a pickup truck and tried to get to the hospital. i'm not sure which road we were on. we might have been on this one. they stopped us because there was still a live shooter. we ran around -- we finally ran into an ambulance. so, up, they started triaging. we got my buddy in the ambulance. one of the young member in the back of the truck, as i was carrying him, he passed away.
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we got the other two in the ambulance. that young man, somebody's son, you know, passed away right there. he was not by himself. he was already with somebody. >> you are okay? you were not hit? >> i'm okay. >> i saw you had bands. that's from the concert. what were other people doing? as you said, you took cover. you had people you wanted to care for. what was the rest of the crowd doing? >> it was very chaotic. they just wanted to get out. there are people being trampled and stuff like that. it was a lot of kay yogs. >> how do you -- mike, how do you even begin to process something like this? this is the stuff you read about happening in other places? >> yeah. especially being from alaska, sheltered from it. i don't know. i don't think i've processed it yet. it's getting harder every time i talk about it. >> were you able to see the muzzle flashes coming from -- >> no i did not. as soon as my buddy got hit, we were down, taking care of him. i was just paying attention to him. >> we have seen a lot of video and heard the shots but no
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definitive timeline for how this goes on. it seemed like there were p prolonged moments of silence. perhaps reload? >> yeah, it was a quick -- whatever, how many shots, 20, 30, a little break, 20shgs 30, a little break. yeah, so there was -- there was time chunks where there were no shots being fired? >> how is your buddy? >> he just got out of surgery. i think he's going to be okay. >> we're keeping him in his prayers. >> mike told me he had another friend, a young lady who was supposed to be with him. he said luckily, she was not feeling well. in this case, it may have saved her life. i saw the two of them just a moment ago. we should also note, brian, this city has lost its brisk pace. you're seeing some traffic that's been routed. they opened up a few avenues here neert mandalay hotel. as i look beyond the camera, there are not a lot of people on the streets here.
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people are almost respectfully glancing over from the pedestrian bridges here, a few will walk up, look over and keep moving. the last time i experienced vegas like this was as a young reporter in 1980. i covered my first story i covered here was the fire at the mgm grand hotel that killed 85 people. this is a very, very similar feeling. a somber feeling. a place where people go to have fun. and this huge cloud, obviously, of grief and anguish is hovering over this place as it is much of the country today, brian. >> absolutely, lester. they will be so anxious to get this behind them and point out that las vegas is open for business and a family-friendly resort. lester holt, not far from the mandalay bay hotel. about the mandalay bay hotel, it's been the focal point of all of this from the late hours of last night. specifically those windows. when we first saw them, it
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wasn't exactly clear what we were looking at. then we realized that shattered glass, the gold reflective glass, and those are curtains bulking out. for a while they were flapping in the breeze with the suction from an inside door on the hallway. those windows, some have they'reized, at least one was used by the gunman. some have they'reized he got a large enough room to be able to have two shooting angles, two shooting locations. our own correspondent joe friar has found his way to a room six floors up from where the shooting took place. and is it does give us an idea of how the venue looks from up there. >> reporter: yeah, that's right, brian. we were actually staying at this hotel overnight, which is why we're in here. it's a little confusing, but basically there are a few floors of the mandalay bay tower that are actually part of the four
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seasons hotel. technically that's where we are but in the mandalay bay tower, high up in the 38th floor and the shooter was six floors below us. i was staying in a dincht room across the hall asleep when this hadn't. my producer was staying in this room here. was awoken by the sounds of gunfire. at first thought, is it gunfire or have something to do with the concert going on down below. then realized it was gunfire. called us and we gathered in this room because the hotel was immediately put on lockdown and stayed under lockdown for about ten hours. we're standing in the 38th floor. you're talking about these windows. those are the windows right here. floor-to-ceiling windows. there is no way to open them. no patios or balconies. we know the gunman had to figure out a way to break thou these windows. we heard authorities say he probably used a hammer or something like a hammer to break through the windows to be able to shoot.
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you mentioned the curtains. we see some curtains right here. i'll step out of the way so you can get a viewpoint. we won't zoom in because we know law enforcement is still processing the scene. this gives you an idea of the angle the gunman had only six floors below here. it's a bird's-eye view. you're looking at the area where the route 91 harvest country music festival was taking place. 22,000 people as country music star jason aldean took the stage. he was on the stage when gunfire filled the air. a lot of people first thought it was fireworks or something that was a part of the show. then they realized what was going on. you can only imagine the confusion from people wondering, where was that gunfire coming from? it took a good hour before the s.w.a.t. team was able to get up into the hotel to the 32nd floor. then they were finally able to take care -- to basically -- they knew at that point the
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gunman had passed away. he had taken his own life at that point. still at that point they didn'ten, was this the only shooter or were there other shooters out there? we now know this was a lone wolf who took his own life after spending a good amount of time perched up here firing away on innocent people. thousands of them down below. >> also, joe, you have to wonder, a guy capable of what he was capable of, was the room booby-trapped? could they blow the door in a common way or was everything painstaking because all they knew was they had a highly lethal individual in that room? >> that's right. authorities say there were at least ten rifles inside that room. they didn't know really who they were dealing with. at the time they probably didn't know how many people were they dealing with. we have some understanding that it was basically smoke setting off the smoke alarms that really helped lead the police into that area and helped get them into there.
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obviously, this was an incredibleably difficult situation. in the hours that followed, there were all sorts of reports on social media or whatever, people saying that there were bomb scares or perhaps other shooters, things that magnified. in the end, the sheriff said none of that was true but in a panic situation people see things that are suspicious and quickly rumors spread. in the end, it was one gunman who did an incredible amount of damage. >> thank you, joe fryer, several floors above open holes where the shots were fired from the mandalay bay hotel, which we keep pointing out, also shares floors defeated voted to the fo seasons hotel. four seasons customers use a different bank of elevators. with us now is clint van zandt, long-time msnbc contributor and
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former fbi profiler. clint, i know you've been listening carefully. i know you heard the interview with the brother. i know you've been gathering as many details about this guy as possible. put together for us a character sketch who you think this guy was. why you think this guy was so capable of a mass casualty -- hey, clint? we have lost clint van zandt. an awful long wind-up to realize clint wasn't there. we'll work on getting communications re-establishing with clint van zandt. we continue to look at some of this social media video last night. there are a lot of clips out there. some of them notably pan up to the mandalay bay as if to be the moment people realize where the
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noise is coming from, where the gunshots are originating. you do see people taking advantage of any and all shelter, including but not limited to, folding chairs. clint van zandt is back with us, i'm told. what is the character sketch you have put together for this guy? and can you help to explain how he can be described by his brother as just a guy and yet responsible for the biggest mass kaushl casualty event of its kind? >> yeah, brian, i think what we're looking for, and you've covered these situations for years. we always look at motive, what would have prompted this person to do this. not only what prompted him to do it, but why today? why not last week? why not next month? as you suggest -- i've watched the interviews with his brothers. he doesn't suggest anything
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particular, not politics, not religion. there's nothing we've heard so far other than pete williams reported there was a transfer of money, maybe gambling wins, maybe gambling losses. we haven't heard anything particular about his health or any issues there. those are the areas i would have to look in right now, brian, as i'm desperately searching for a motive. and realize the fbi and others are doing what they always do. they're looking for electronic fo footprints and fingerprint on the internet. this guy, at his age, and that's not saying 62, 63 is too old to use the internet at all, but he may not have a large social media profile. as they try to identify why this guy, who was 30 years older than the average age of a mass murderer, why he acted out, they will be challenge today to
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understand the motive, understand why he did it and at this location and try to understand if there's anyone else who knew about it. we hear of mass murdererers who share the information with others, who have talked about doing it. usually there's some psychological leakage that we call that comes out. on this guy, we just haven't seen it yet, brian. >> so, clint, based on what you're seeing, which i guess is mostly what we're also seeing, you've got nothing to go on yet? nothing jumps out at you? >> no, nothing jumps out without more information. we know he's been there for three days. what to me is most important is what has he done the last month? what has he done the last week? in particular, give me his last three days. now, part of that is going to come if he was doing cash exchanges back and forth. the other part is going to be the surveillance cameras inside of the hotel.
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you and i and most of your listeners know there is no better surveillance system in the world, likely, than a las vegas gambling table. so, they'll be looking at him, they'll be looking at who he interacted with. they'll be going over hours and hours of videotape trying to understand why he was there, who he was with and their attempt to determine a motive for the shooting. >> we'll see him drive up in his car. we'll see him at check-in. we'll see him in the elevator on the way to his room, in the hallway on the way to his room. apparently he was checked in for a couple days before. let's surmise the room was selected intentionally because of what it looked down upon, ait later fired down upon. clint, looks like a lot of weaponry, but again, in las vegas, where we keep pointing out a big gun show is coming up october 7 and 8, a lot of people are walking around las vegas with a lot of weaponry, a lot of it in cases.
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>> a lot of people in cases and a lot of people open carry and concealed weapons. there are a lot of weapons in las vegas. if you or i or somebody else brought a luggage cart in with half a dozen gun cases on it, i doubt anyone would pay any attention because out of 45 million people who go in and out of vegas every year, there's a lot of people who come in just for the reasons you're talking about. they want to use firearms for hunting. they want to practice. they want to buy them, sell them. so, guns are nothing unusual to las vegas. what's unusual is someone who chooses to act out in this regard. realize, these are the fairest law enforcement have across the country. we always hear about the lone wolf shooter, if he or she gets on the high ground, what can they do? well, looks like he found the highest ground he could get on and he found this contained
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location of multitargets. you know, brian, i don't know what we need. maybe we need gates or fences that if you hit them, trying to run out, they all collapse and let you out the other way because this guy -- it was the proceed verbalial shooting fish in a barrel but they were all human. >> that was the gruesome part of this. one more quick question. why would isis put out a statement claiming responsibility? >> well, a couple of reasons. number one, they're looking for the attention. number, two for the past six, nine months they have advocated lone wolves act out like this. they've advocated the use of vehicles, which we've seen. they've advocated the use of knives, which we've seen, edged instruments, and they've also advocated mass shootings to take place, to act out when you have a large public venue that really doesn't give these people confined a way out. isis has been advocating this,
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so it makes terrible sense that they would take credit for it. but as far as we know, there's no link whatsoever that the fbi or other agencies have been able to determine that would suggest he was a recent convert other than isis trying to get attention and, of course, trying to inspire, unfortunately, others to commit similar acts. >> the great and capable clint van zandt, veteran profiler, who like the rest of us is puzzled so far at the elements of this portrait. thank you, as always. we've been fortunate to be able to talk to some of the people who were there last night. i say fortunate because they're helping us paint this picture. they're helping us understand what it was like at that otherwise happy and joyous event. during an otherwise beautiful night in las vegas. terry wannick was one of them. she was at the concert last
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night with friends. when did you first know something was wrong? >> well, actually, i wasn't at the concert. we were on a bus coming back from fremont. we were about a block and a half away from where the concert is -- or was. and while we were on the bus there was probably, i don't know, 100 police cars that went flying by us. there were a ton of them. as we got off the bus, we could hear gunfire. the next thing i know people were running from the concert and running towards our hotel. everybody was trying to get inside. >> did you see people run past you because they were caught up in the gunfire? >> they hadn't made it down to us. it had just started. apparently when we stopped on the bus. the people from the venue hadn't completely got out thereof yet. when we were coming into the
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hotel, there were people flooding into the hotel that were from the concert. there were people coming over from the mandalay bay. and the tropicana. there was just people coming from everywhere, running and screaming, saying people were dead. it was terrible. >> worst night in las vegas in a long time. probably going to turn out to be forever. worst mass casualty shooting, looks like, in american history. these pictures we've been watching are horrifying and the stories like terri has shared with us today. absolutely horrifying. a day people will never forget. that's among the people who were among the lucky, the people who lived to tell the story. thank you very much. we continue to look at these pictures of the triage effort. the wall of ambulances, the people, some in uniform, some in civilian clothes, some of them who were there as first
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responders, others who came in in waves, every neighboring jurisdiction in las vegas, the city police department, the sheriff's office, nevada state police, on and on and on. they flooded the zone with law enforcement once they realized they had a mass casualty event. ross goodman is with us, criminal defense attorney, who had friends at this concert last night. his mother is also las vegas mayor, carolyn goodman, we should point out. counselor, tell us the story from your vantage point. >> it's just horrific. i'm trying to process, sitting here listening to the people who actually experienced the tragedy of last night. our hearts and prayers go out to them and their families. just trying to process the information. based on what we've been told so far, i believe it sounds like
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he -- this guy drove from mesquite down to las vegas for the sole purpose of committing this act. he had the guns. there's no other reason for him to bring those guns to the mandalay bay. he strategically checked into a room that was right across from the event. and, you know, the only question in my mind is, why did he wait until the last act of the last day? it's horrific. i don't think there's anything we could have done to prevent it. he is a lone wolf. i would like to try to find out, as does law enforcement, how he got access to those automatic weapons. you know, we know that it's a very long frosz get an automatic weapon. have you to an ffl license, and have you to be approved by the atf. and it's very difficult to get those weapons, you know, legally
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on the black market. the question for me and the focus is, how did he get those weapons? it was premeditated, first-degree murder and an horrific event. i hope we can piece together through the surveillance video that the hotel has and, you know, some more information, speaking with his gill friend on what would precipitate and trigger such a senseless act. >> ar-15, to my memory, has been the highest selling weapon in the country in terms of popularity. are you saying those are hard to get? >> it's a semi-automatic weapon. those are easy to get. it sounded to me in listening to, you know, all the video out there that it was an automatic weapon, meaning you don't have to pull your trigger each time you shoot. so, again, it was premeditated. i believe he came with an
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automatic weapon, based on what i heard. and he had -- you know, otherwise, brian, he could have modified an ar-15 to make it automatic. you know, anybody can go on the internet and see how to do that. it's just puzzling. i think the focus of the investigation somewhat should be into how he accessed these weapons. but there's no question regardless of how he accessed them, that he came here with the sole intent to, you know, commit that act. >> question for our control room. is jim cavanaugh still with us? we should talk about this point. jim, we've been talking about weapons. you're our weapons guy. first of all, i'm curious when you first heard the sound of these rounds, what did you think? and what -- what would the -- that sound indicate we were talking about here? >> sounded like a submachine gun to me.
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sounded like a fully automatic, you know, man portable machine gun, like a 223, like a soldier would carry, select fire usually. that's fully automatic fire there. that could be achieved in a variety of ways. the most common way, of course, is to have a submachine gun. the second way is what you were just discussing with defense counsel there is to have a semi-automatic gun originally made as a semi-automatic gun that's converted, re-engineered to be fully automatic. that usually is criminally done. atf enforces that law. but that can be done. there are some other ways to get fire like that. one is called a bump stock, and it puts out fire that sounds the same as a machine gun, but you actually are pulling the trigger each time it bumps against the shoulder. there's also crank triggers that fire guns that fast. so, there's a few different
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methods that get that sound. basically, it's fully automatic fire. >> so, ross goodman, do you have any theories of the case based on any information you may have picked up on this gunman? >> i don't. we know -- we know from his brother that this was a shock to him. i mean, it just stands out in my mind -- i'm not a forensic guy but the fact he bought his mom a walker to help her walk weeks before. he seemed to be a normal guy. i hate to, you know, just say it's all speculation, but the fact he lost some money gambling, to me, is not the crux of the case because, again, he premeditated this. he brought the guns from mesquite and he checked into that room on purpose, so that he could have a view of the cob concert. he waited until the last day of the event to, you know, take actions. i mean, to me it's something else other than just having some
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gaming losses. i think the investigation, hopefully, will reveal that and come up with the motive that makes sense. at the end of the day, i think everyone will agree, there's no motive. there's nothing to explain what we saw here. it was a cowardly act. and, unfortunately, and i hate to say this, i'm not sure that it could have been prevented or that we could prevent a similar act like this in the future. >> ross goodman, thank you for being with us. one. las vegas natives who's had to witness this terrible day in their history. tom costello with us with more reporting out of our washington bureau. tom? >> well, we have been struck, as i'm sure you have as well, 22,000 people, 22,000 people in that crowd. we've been struck by how many off-duty firefighters and paramedics were -- excuse me, police officers were in that crowd. we have reports of at least one officer being from colorado,
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who's been wounded. an officer from california who was wounded. officers from nevada as well. wounded. the firefighters union, the iaff, the international association of firefighters, says it is dispatching a ptsd team, post-traumatic stress disorder team, to las vegas because of the situation on the ground and the horror the firefighters and paramedics saw and witnessed and tried to care for with 500-plus injured. just a staggering number. not to mention the 58 killed. the concern s these are tough guys anyway running into fires when everybody else is running out. these are guys used to trauma and seeing terrible things but not at this level. not this -- not this kind of a battle trauma situation. so, as a result, they are sending a ptsd team to help these medics and firefighters process what has gone on and to
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help them sxoep decope and deal that. in addition, you might have seen the state of nevada is requesting a waiver to allow out of state physicians immediately practice medicine in nevada. as you know, you're usually only licensed in one state up. need a waiver during mass casualty to bring in out of staters, whether from the military or whether from california, whatever, the state of nevada requesting an emergency waiver to allow out of state doctors and surgeons to come to their aid because they have been overwhelmed. they were dealing with a shortage of docs to begin with and then this hit. and lastly, brian, one other point. we have been -- you were on the phone with jim cavanaugh, we were asking what kind of gun this may have been. his feeling is this may well have been a 223 type of semi-automatic weapon converted, although we talked to plenty of people who think, yes, that's a high probability but, gosh, that sounds like a full automatic,
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which has been illegal to purchase a brand-new fully automatic weapon since 1986. so, exactly what kind of a weapon was used is not clear but it certainly seems whether it was a semi-automatic that was converted or an automatic weapon illegally purchased or has been legal and in his possession since 1986, it seems like it was for all intent and purposes, during the killing, it was in full automatic mode. >> we sure are going to find that part out relatively soon. he took -- he used one weapon to take his own life, used another or several to shoot out the window and take the lives of so far 58 souls. tom costello, thanks. tom also raises the important point, can you be a first responder all your life, never have to treat a bullet wound. never, thankfully, have to see a mass casualty event. now first responders in an urban environment, a city like las
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vegas, have just about seen it all or so they thought. until last night. this is something you never hope to see. ken dalanian in our investigative unit has more. >> our colleagues are learning that the suspect stephen paddock had been gambling large sums of money in las vegas casinos in recent weeks, up to 10,000, even more than 10,000. they're learning because law enforcement officials are sifting through currency traction reports which have to be filed by leif casinos when subjects are using large cash transactions. they don't say if he won or lost. we know the house usually tends to win. that might add to this man's state of mind. >> are you learning anything else to make this portrait a little more whole? recent travel, demeanor,
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neighborhood complaints, the usual stuff? >> not really. the neighborhood reports on this man have been all over the map. you know, the quiet, kept to himself sort of reports. i wanted to make a point about the gun situation, though. as you know, authorities have saidthy recovered ten rifles from the hotel room. they haven't said what kind of guns they were. experts who have been listening to this fire have suggested that there's a strong possibility they were modified semi-automatic weapons. and there's cheap and easy ways that can be done over the internet. there are devices for as little as $50 you can modify an ar-15 to create some kind of automatic fire and for a little more money you can make it more consistent. and so that is something investigators are looking closely at in terms of the burst of automatic weapon fire. >> thank you. clint watts is with us, a veteran of the fbi. former fbi special agent on joint terrorism task force,
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former u.s. army infantry officer. let's start on the weapon. do you buy this theory that it's a kind of up-armored ar-15 of some sort? >> yeah, to me when i hear it, it seems like fully automatic fire, which you only really hear in army context, usually, if you're in the military. that's immediately what i thought when i heard this tape. now, whether he modified or not, i don't know. we should also remember that in nevada never it could be possible he might have acquired a fully automatic weapon pipts a common tourist destination to go and fire automatic weapons at different warfare campaigns through history. there's the potential maybe he had associated or friends that could have got that for him, or he modified it himself or had a friend modify it. i think that what will be critical moving forward, how did he get that weapon or have it modified? did he do it himself? is that the kind of expertise he had? and how did he move all those weapons into the hotel, you know, virtually undetected? it seems like no one picked up
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on it. the best technical surveillance in the world is in las vegas. if you don't detect it in las vegas, there's not much hope to detect it anywhere else. >> we were saying earlier, you have people coming into the town for the big gun show october 7th and 8th. routine to see people checking into hotels with multiple gun cases, especially with a big retailing event coming in. that's a tough one. >> it is not -- you know, we always look for technical signatures and behavioral signatures when we're trying to detect some violent plot. he seems to have put off almost none in his communications. there's been no real social media pop up. there's been nothing from family or relatives. the only thing of interest i picked up on is his father. his father had a history of criminality and it tied into las vegas. beyond that, not much to go on. possibly losing lots of money in gambling but that could have
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been an i'm on my way out, what we would see with a suicide operation, essentially. i'm going to play my last hands and then i'm going out on this very violent act against innocent people. >> i want to just apropos of this conversation bring in a gentleman who would be able to answer our questions. david shepherd, former executive director of security for the venetian resorted hotel and casino, also a former fbi s.w.a.t. team leader and ceo and chief preparedness officer at the readiness resource group. so, david, you've been there. would a guy age 64, otherwise unremarkable, checking in at the mandalay bay or its subsidiary floors, four seasons, who had the kind of standard rolling bag and, oh, by the way, a couple of very obviously gun cases and not violin cases, would that be any cause for alarm? >> well, we have several gun shows here in las vegas, at the
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same time. many weapons can you break down and put in a bag. you don't actually know it's a gun. >> you can take the stock, the barely, yeah. so, there was nothing -- you could easily envision a circumstance where this guy checked in and had no red flags. >> correct. he can go to his car several times and have his car down and come back in multiple times and won't draw attention. >> when authorities come to you and obviously you're not speaking for the mandalay bay but generally for the industry in las vegas, based on your knowledge, you could probably piece together what, ten different views of someone on ten different cameras during check-in and maybe their first two days in the hotel or is that a low ball number? >> well, there's a lot of cameras, most of the properties have several hundred cameras. >> and you can get facial recognition software and all of that, so you can be the in house
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security directors at these hotels can be of great help to the fbi as they are trying to piece together and tell the story of this guy, correct? >> totally correct. we spend a lot of time with police departments and we spend a lot of time with the fusion centers, law enforcement fusion center to take any ep help under any safety situation. >> what do you want to know about this guy? what do you think snapped? >> people just don't snap. what you have right off the bat, most of the time, 81% of the time people say somebody to somebody else, it's called leakage. who did he talk to? did he leave any information concerning what he planned to do? we've broken up school shootings before because they put it on social media and wants to do something in the school, do it ahead of the time. somewhere along the line, the weapons, somewhere he has to train and do something with this kind of distance.
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somebody has to know that information. that's exactly what the law enforcement is doing right now. what do we want to find out about him and have information about other people been around him why this actually happened. there are not one reason a person is an active shooter but i've identified 56 persons why a person could be a shooter. >> give me reasons why somebody would be a leaker? why would someone grab their own headline? >> they want people to know. it's the same thing you threaten somebody right off the bat, i'm going to come back for you. they actually do. most people just blow hard, you think it's not going to happen and a lot of time it does. >> clint watts is here, your reaction to what you're hearing. >> most times i think that's why this is so odd. most times you're either going to see if it's connected to a terrorist organization, some sort of video pop-up, electronic communication. even if it's a suicide operation you would see a manifesto or
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some sort of leaking. it seems like there's been nothing surfaced yet. family, relatives, financial transactions, all we've seen is what may be some excessive gambling, leading right up to the end. doesn't seem to have a cause that he's excited about or motivated about that we've been able to detect. usually at this point, someone would have come forward and said this is somebody who was very agitated or upset. if you think back to the steve scalise shooting a few months ago, we saw somebody, again, oddly in the 60s in the age wh conducted the shooting but then we saw a political anger brewing inside the person, someone who was down on their luck financially. in this case i can't point to anything other than the family lineage with the father being on the most wanted list xs other than that, there's not much to go on. i'll be super curious as we look forward was there anybody who had sold him weapons or shot
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weapons with him, gone to the range with him. was there anybody that knew about this just a little bit or thought he might be up to it? i would have thought they would have sur faszed by now. >> interesting. having heard from two gentlemen, former fbi veterans pete williams has been about the busiest employee in our washington bureau today. we've not had a chance to talk to you, pete. i'd like to allow you some air time to go through the case as you know it. >> okay, well one of the things we've been looking at, brian, trying to figure out how long this ordeal lasted. now, at some point the police and the fbi working together will know the answer to that question, probably down to the second because they'll take all of these cell phone videos and phone call records and things that people have and put them all together and in essence develop a continuous log of this event by cross-checking all these various cell phones and putting them together. we know they can do it. it's exactly what they did after
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the boston marathon bombing by taking in hundreds of cell phone videos still pictures and looking at the time registrations that are on those things, they are not always accurate but they can find the same events and adjust the time line until they get it right. so at some point we'll know the answer to that question. in the meantime, here's the best we can do about how long the ordeal lasted. the police in the las vegas say the initial call to the police department of shots fired at this concert came -- these are all vegas times at 10:08 p.m. then we go back and we checked the audio from the service broadcast that records police radio transmissions. the shots are fired and you see the mandalay bay hotel in the background, the big yellow building. they are trying to figure out where the shots are come being from. they finally figure out it's the mandalay bay but don't know what
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floor. they start with the 29th floor and work their way up to the 32nd floor where the shots were fired from and then they breach the -- basically blow the door in. so we've keyed to the moment on the broadcastify audio where the door is blown in and las vegas time, that's 11:20 p.m. it's an hour and 12 minutes from the time the first phone call is made to the police reporting shots fired until the police blow the door of his hotel room in and find that he has shot himself. what we don't know from this time line is when did the shooting stop? we know that it was a sort of stopped and started during this entire interval that shots would be fired and then it would stop. we don't know if that means he was reloading, getting different magazines or using different weapons. you saw a moment ago the still picture of the two windows blown out. we know he broke out two windows
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to do the shooting from, apparently going back and forth from two rooms that he had whether he had adjoining rooms or just a big suite but used those two windows and broke the glass out with a hammer and so that is the -- that's the outside -- if you will, the book ends of this event from the moment the first call comes at 10:08 until the door is breached on the room at 11:20. now, a couple of other things about trying to figure out what the motive was here. and i know you've been talking about this say little bit. one of the extraordinary things about this is that nothing has at this point popped out. we know that there was nothing in the hotel room, nothing in his car that would indicate why. they've talked to the woman who was his girlfriend who lived with him in mesquite, nevada, which is about an hour and 20 minutes away, 80 miles away. she's had no immediate explanation for this. they've done a search of his
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house in mesquite where he lived in a retirement community around a golf course and the only thing of interest they found in the entire house was more weapons and more ammunition. but nothing obvious. the hope is in the coming hours, that they exploit his electronic devices and social media, perhaps they'll get an answer there. you haven't heard yet where he got the weapons, his brother has said, find out who sold him the machine guns, that's something the federal agents are trying hard to do. they are looking at whether he used nearby gun ranges. there's one gun range in las vegas that advertises you can come and have the experience of shooting automatic weapons. did he go there? we don't know but we know that's one thing that law enforcement people are trying to find out. so you've talked about the family connection here, the fact his father was on the fbi most wanted list, rob the a bank in phoenix in 1960, was arrested in
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vegas in july of that year. tried to rundown an fbi agent, law enforcement people said at the time and the wanted poster that went out after he escaped from a texas prison eight years later in 1968 described him as diagnosed as psychopathic and having suicidal tendencies. the father was ultimately arrested in oregon in 1978. ten years after he escaped. so that's it in a nutshell, brian. just a great deal of frustration here that authorities really cannot put their finger on why this happened, how long it had been planned, whether he checked into this room last thursday with all of the fire power, fully knowing this was what he was going to do or having some sense he was going to do something and along came this target of opportunity. we just don't know yet. >> forgive me if you answered this specific question. what was the elapsed time of the
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firing from first round to last? do we know that? >> that's the thing we don't know. what we know, it's an hour and 12 minutes from the time the first shots are phoned in to the police, police get the first call that shots are fired until the door is breached on the hotel room. what we don't know is was he still shooting at the time he broke into the room. police have said as soon as they got on the 32nd floor they knew immediately that's where the shots were coming from. the elevator doors opened and they know immediately that's where the shots are coming from. we don't know why that is, whether it's that they smelled gun powder or they can hear shots being fired. so we can't -- from that time line we simply can't tell when the last shots were fired, whether it was right up until the time that they blew the door off and he shot himself. >> brief note to our viewers, we've just stretched across the top of the 2:00 p.m. hour here on the east coast, obviously covering this national tragedy


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