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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  October 5, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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and bye-bye to spring and fall in new york. although prague is pretty awesome any time of year. we'll be back with more mtp daily right now. let's go have a beer in prague with ivana trump. sign me up. there's big news in the russia investigation, tonight about, what bob mueller is probing now. do you remember donald trump's very first press conference as president-elect? it was bizarre. trump tried to counter concerns about foreign powers enriching him by showing the supposed paperwork for creating new rules for trump hotels. the folders were are found later to be purely voluntary. he brought out a private lawyer to press his case. and then he waded into a controversy that jim comey had just told him about at trump tower. the dossier.
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>> i want to thank a lot of the news organizations here today. because they looked at that nonsense that was released by maybe the intelligence agencies, who knows, maybe the intelligence agencies, which would be a tremendous blot on their record if they did that. a tremendous blot. because a thing like that should have never been written. it is all fake news. it is phony stuff. it didn't happen. it was a group of opponents that got together, sick people, and they put that crap together. >> that was weird. most americans hadn't even heard much about the dossier at the time but it clearly struck a nerve. trump's response also unnerved jim comey. and it was what moved him to immediately start typing away on an fbi laptop in his motorcade leaving trump tower, spawning the now famous comey memos which
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congress heard about and which helped propel the point of bob mueller as special counsel along with jim comey's firing. no one knew it then but all those roads led back to the dossier. now let's be clear. that doesn't mean the dossier is true. any lawyer can tell you about exciting and controversial potential evidence that turns out to be a nothing burger. three russians are suing a firm behind the dossier over libel right now. the news now is bob mueller is not yet dismissing the dossier as a nothing burger. bob mueller is investigating whether it is a something burger. he is taking over fbi inquiries into a former british spy's dossier of allegations of russian financial and personal links to the trump campaign and associates. sources familiar with the inquiry tell reuters. he mueller's office declined to sxomt that is amidst the news we brought you last night. that senate intel says their pursuit of the dossier hit a
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wall. >> as it relates to the steele dossier, unfortunately, the committee has hit a wall. we have he on several occasions made attempts to contact mr. steele, to meet with mr. steele. those offers have gone unaccepted and though we have been incredibly enlightened at our ability to rebuild backwards the steele dossier up to a certain date, getting past that point has been impossible. >> burr's counter part had the same problem he told me in an interview last night. >> on the dossier, your committee wants to talk to steele. how do you get someone with his background abroad to talk at all? >> well, we made outreach to mr. steele and we've offered, mr.
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conway and myself to go to london to sit down with him if that's a more comfortable way to participate and provide whatever information he can to the committee. i hope he will take us up on that. >> the fbi has more than home on its side. it has a history with the dossier author, chris steele, including a contract to continue that trump research which then fell apart. also reports that the fbi got names of some of the dossier sources from steele. the question is whether those names lead to something that matters. there's an old southern saying, the hit dog always hollers. meaning, if you're making a lot of noise, maybe you have a guilty conscience. investigators don't know at this hour whether the trump campaign has a guilty conscience. but at that first dossier press conference, there was certainly hollering. >> it was disgraceful, disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out
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to be so false and fake, out. that's something that nazi germany would have done and did do. i think it is a disgrace. >> joining me, an anchor. also worked in the cia analyst. the dossier is back. a lot of serious people are looking at it. >> yeah. the fact that the fbi is considering this dossier. we know there were some mistakes in the dossier. there was the name of a company that was wrong. a retreat location in russia that was wrong. so some fwakts this seem to be wrong. but there must be enough in this dossier for investigators to be taking it seriously and for mueller to be looking at it at all. and the big question is where is christopher steele? clearly the senators wanted to speak to him. adam schiff wanted to speak to him. we can get you to talk to us and they would very much like to
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interview him to find out what his sources were and who was paying him. >> he's in a place where a lot of people speak like you do. >> i'm afraid it doesn't give me a hotline to speak to christopher steele. >> your view? >> well, that's right. i think there are some elements that have proven not to be true. when you take a look at the dossier, you realize that there are some components that have been borne out over time. the key report in the dossier is dated june of 2016. and christopher steele writes in that report the russians will launch a multifaceted effort to denigrate hillary clinton. doing so with cyber means as well as traditional means involving some officials. all of that sounds familiar because as the administration first put forward in october of last year and the intelligence community piled on in february. >> you're raising such an important point. i want to pause on it and get fancy with you if you're okay with that.
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the question, how did he know what he knew then? if i take your inference, you're saying by knowing it then and early before everyone else did, before the media did, before it was really public, that suggests that he had good sourcing? >> well, i think we can look at a couple things on suggest he has good sourcing. first of all, christopher steele a well known entity within intelligence circles. he was based in russia for a long time. he was head of the russia desk. he is known cia and fbi. he actually worked the fbi on their fifa investigation prior to this. so he is someone trusted within the industry. so i think that length credence to this document. and i think you take a look at what he produced in june and that in and of itself does not suggest that everything in the dossier is true. but there is enough that has been corroborated over time that i think it begs on the part of mueller to take a close look at
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this and to actually include it in the investigation to see if his team can get a better sense of those sub sources on whom christopher steele relied forgot information. some of which has been corroborated. >> this is the key issue. they have to be able to talk to christopher steele, to find out how many of this is accurate, given the inaccuracies we have in the moment. and i think when journalists were talking about it, it was some of the salaciousness. they thought this is too far out there. that's why the senators were clearly so frustrated. i was surprised at the pointedness with which burr and warner were talking about christopher steele and the need to talk to him and their frustration with not being able to get hold of him. without him they can't know how reliable those sources are.
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i agree with you, there's circumstantial evidence that suggests he was in on something earlier than most people were in on something. that doesn't in and of itself mean the sources are solid all the way through. >> i want to add into our discussion, michael isikoff, a chief investigator, has said that christopher steele was an fbi asset assisting in the investigation. i want to add your reporting and views to this. donald trump and his allies may wish the dossier would go away. as i've just reported, you have a republican chairman talking about, i want to get to the bottom of this. you have mueller reports, according to reuters, looking at it. which you would expect. and then the politico headline, the hunt for trump dossier, inflaming it. saying two travels to russia there summer trying to -- they traveled to london trying to
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track down christopher steele. >> i think it is worth remembering from what we know, as christopher steele was working on the dossier, and developing this information, long before it became public. he himself reached out to the fbi. the account he's given is that he was so kerneled about what he was doing finding. he thought the fbi with whom he had a relationship ought to know it. and there are at least two contacts. one in july and one later, august, september time frame, when he speaks to, meets with fbi agents with whom he had a relationship. so i'm a little puzzled by why people are all excited right now bob mueller would be looking for it and we need to find out his sources and sub sources. because one can presume that any fbi agent worth his salt contacted by christopher steele back last summer would have been pressing for that same information.
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and it was information christopher steele felt he could divulge without jeopardizing the lives of his sources or sub sources, he would have given it to them then. whether that led anywhere, whether it allowed the bureau to develop information corroborated or knocked down some of what steele found or wrote, we don't know. from everything we know, steele reached out to the fbi long ago. there was context, the fbi had every opportunity to question steele about his sources. >> this goes to the point i raised at the top, bringing ned back here. the nothing burger or the something burger. michael is saying that the fbi history here means it is a safe circumstantial bet that they're digging into the dossier. the dossier that so upset and enraged donald trump. that he naktd way that jim comey started taking the kind of memos he never used to take before.
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then the question is, what is from an investigative and intelligence view, the hardest part of the dossier that mueller would be looking at? >> the money trail and the compromise. this goes back to the most salacious allegations that are in the dossier, and the element that's so riled up donald trump in that january 11 press conference. it is the fact that, it is the allegation made in the june 2016 reported contained in the report that his campaign was colluding with the russians. further to that, this potential for compromise that could suggest that the russians could leverage information they have over donald trump, and or his associates to extract concessions, now that donald trump is now the commander in chief. >> that goes back to the landing point. did donald trump understand then, and does he understand
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now, the role of our sagss to serve and protect him and they gave him that information to help him. not as he put it in the clip, to somehow hurt him. >> i don't think that's how donald trump saw it or perceived it. let's remember, it was james comey, then the fbi director, who personally delivered the dossier, or a summary of the dossier, to president trump, then president-elect trump when they briefed him on january 6th. and i think i it is a reasonable assumption that's what tipped trump off to comey and eventually led to the firing. james clapper had left the room. comey stayed back. it was decided he would be the one who would give this embarrassing, awkward information to president-elect trump. >> because he drew a straw so short. it was like a sub tooth pick. >> and ultimately, was fired by
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trump. >> that's one theory of the case. thank you all for your reporting. coming up, did vladimir putin get help? and growing pressure on jared kushner and ivanka trump. a new call for accountability. and my live exclusive interview with the congressman who went to jail for tax evasion after threatening to throw a reporter off a balcony. he is out of jail. he is with steve bannon and he is joining me live on "the beat." where, in all of this, is the stuff that matters? the stakes are so high, your finances, your future. how do you solve this? you don't. you partner with a firm that advises governments and the fortune 500, and, can deliver insight person to person, on what matters to you.
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we have some breaking news that just came into our newsroom. reports from nbc news reporter ken dilanian that investigators for robert mueller recently traveled to the u.k. london, specifically, to speak to
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christopher steele, the author of that infamous dossier. again, this news coming into the newsroom right now. our viewer to "the beat" may remember moments ago i was reporting on this that because of a reuters report about bob mueller working on the dossier and inheriting the inquiry into it, minutes later, as is so often the case these days, we have this breaking reports. nbc news reporting that mueller's office indeed has made contact with this elusive individual. christopher steele. behind that controversial dossier, and have been, also the man name checked in that unusual briefing from the leaders of the senate intelligence committee yesterday when they said they did a, quote, wall in reaching him. the news breaking. bob mueller hand hit that wall. and for more on this, i turned to a member of the foreign relations committee who joins me on "the beat." i'll read this to you in full. since the time you sbukd our washington studio, this news broke. let me read this to you.
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investigators from robert mueller's office traveled to london recently to interview christopher steele. that dossier author. your reaction? >> i think this is important news that shows the special counsel is not messing around. he is tracking down all the leads. and based on various reports, it is clear at least some, or perhaps many parts of the dossier are in fact true. so i am very pleased that special counsel mueller had a chance, at least his investigators, to interview christopher steele. >> you say reports suggesting it is partly true, at least. your view of what this says about the mueller investigation view of the potential veracity and why did they go to london? why didn't they get steele on come to the town you're in? >> mr. steele probably didn't want to come here. however they got to him, they did get to him, that's good news. you can tell a lot about the actions of the special counsel. when he first came out and looked at the evidence, what did he do?
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i need to hire more investigators and look around. no. he hired a lot of prosecutors. you hire prosecutors to prosecute. and then he convened a grand jury. you convene a grand jury because you want to indict people. so we can see that he sees criminal behavior happening. >> i want to get your view on another big issue which is the conduct of jared kushner and ivanka trump who played dual roles, family members of the president, as well as government advisers in the white house. that wouldn't normally be even legal if they were promoted as potential cabinet members but they found a loophole in that they are adviser in the white house. you have been speaking out. you have a new proposal about this. what is your view given reports of their view of private e-mail and other questions about them, their access to classified information at this point in time. >> i wrote a letter to the white house counsel asking for ivanka
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trump's security to be revoked as well as jared kushner's and they should be investigated. there are a number of actions they took that anybody as well as security clearance would have been their clearance revoked. they not only used private e-mail for official business but they also tried to reroute it through the trump administration to hide those e-mails. and jared kushner misled people there his two security clearance forms by failing to disclose all his russian contacts. and the new yorker wrote that ivanka trump engaged in fraud. i have a high level security clearance. if any of my colleagues had done half the things jared and ivanka did, their security clearance would have been immediately revoked and pending investigation. >> you're saying they're getting special treatment? >> absolutely. i don't know why they still have a security clearance. it makes a mock rift security
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clearance process. i'm sure general kelly is aware that they don't neat standard. not only does it protect their integrity, but they are compromised. so foreign powers can threaten to leak information. whether it is true or false to attempt to get them to do things so this is a very big problem for national security. they should have it revoked immediately. >> congressman ted lu on a busy news day, thank you for joining me. i appreciate it. i hope to see you again on "the beat." >> if you're just joining in, we are reporting this breaking news from nbc news that the author of the dossier, christopher steele, has made contact and spoken with bob mueller's team. coming up, a "the beat" exclusive. out of jail and running for
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what was he asking your advice about? >> he asked, should i tweet, should i not tweet. >> what have you told him? >> i said you should tweet. >> i think you should tweet. that's new from ivana trump talking about her conversations with her former husband, president donald trump. meanwhile, the tweets are pouring in with fallout from nbc's report that rex tillerson called trump a moron and that he considered resigning. today he said, he never threatened to resign. this is fake news. no verification from me. the story is you may recall,
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reported something tillerson said that trump didn't allegedly know about. so his verification would be totally irrelevant. and tillerson did not deny the moron part of it. today he was out with mike pence. despite other reports about a wide rif between trump and his cabinet, there is a reported suicide pact where all three cabinet secretaries vow to leave in the event the president makes moves against one of them. with me now to make some moves of their own, the editor and chief. and the senior vp at the school that a former counsel to the mayor of new york. i started with you. if there is a suicide pact, that means, i believe, some kind of trump administration career suicide, nothing more than that. what does that tell but what it is like? in your time in government, did you have any such pacts when you
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were serving the mayor? >> i didn't need a pact. i would call it a survival pact, not a suicide pact. one of the things in government, you find your allies and ways to protect yourself to keep moving the mission. that's actually a strategy that happens in many administrations. and often is about survival. so it may be more about the news coverage and not the tull relationship. think about the fact that there was a pact at the beginning of the administration, right? where there was mattis and i believe kelly who said they wouldn't be out of the country at the same time. so they could keep the mission moving. >> so this is more about having a squad. >> i think it is a possie. >> what would you call it? >> i think a possie sounds about right. whatever they can put together to protect the public interest, then themselves, their own reputations. one of the problems with donald trump is that he tanlts the reputation of everybody he touches. we saw hit the week cyrus vance. the d.a. of manhattan.
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>> which we covered yesterday about the money. >> up until yesterday, had a sterling reputation, as far as i know. but now it looks bad because of his association with donald trump's lawyer. so for mattis, tillerson, mcmaster, these are people who had excellent reputations. one way or another until now. and now have to defend their recommendations. but also try on defend what they see as the public interest and it is not easy in these conditions. >> and the military side of it matters. you have people who have at least previously shown nonpartisan credentials. there is a very interesting tweet that i know a lot of folks were looking at from a report he about john kelly yesterday saying general kelly was originally going to be on air force one to vegas but was pulled off the flight, i'm told. white house not answering questions about it. john kelly definitely has his hands full. what is he supposed to do with
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this act? >> part of what he has to do is hold the camera together. the last thing he wants is to lose that, trying to do their best to do what's right for the country. we think about the iran nuclear deal. we think about north korea. where there are places where mattis himself has also been at odds with the president, lake with tillerson. >> you're making such a great point. it is so much broader, we talk about the parties. but it is about this person. donald trump, who is as 50 cent said, became president by accident and acts like it, is what he said in an interview. i want to play this. listen closely to the word he uses. he as a republican, he happens to be, basically implies we need these people on the wall west
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want you on that wall. on that wall these generals are the line between trump and further chaos. take a listen. >> i think secretary tillerson, secretary mattis, and chief of staff kelly are those people that heseparate our country fro chaos and i support them very much. >> it is because these people, those three grew up in an environment where diplomacy was vall valued. they knew military force was a last resort. not something to be sgroekd or tweeted about. particularly not military force. and the president unfortunately understands none of those things. he has no conception what
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diplomacy is for or how it works. he has to idea about the statements he makes about military force. to these three men, and i presume mcmaster, too, this is anathema. we're talking about people's lives. in the military, they don't joke about this. >> out of time. go ahead. >> when you're tweeting that your secretary of state is wasting his time when he is in the midst of a diplomatic meeting. >> with nuclear implications. >> we always learn something from you guys and i feel a little more somber, a little more serious. is that a good thing? >> okay. >> no avoiding it. the republican led congress just let a health care pral fogram f million children expire.
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a former felon, michael grimm, is out of prison running for congress again. that huddle you see there, my live interview with him straight ahead. you nervous? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi. ugh. being in the know is a good thing. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts. you myour joints...thing for your heart... or your digestion...
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helps keep his daughter alive. here's the policy context. the children's health insurance program known as chip uses medicaid and state frooms ensure americans get health care. and while it is often been a bipartisan priority in congress, republicans ducked out this year. they miss ad key deadline on sunday to renew it. that means funding is now on pace to run out. a reporting shows in just 56 days, the first states will lose funding for kids. now, there are a lot of count down clocks in the news. i admit. some are even trivial. here is one we think that matters. and that 9 million families are watching closely. 56 days left for children's health care, unless our congress acts. as i mentioned, republican missioned the sunday deadline showing no urgency so far. and by the way, after ignoring the deadline, they are headed for vacation for the next two weeks. david joins me now, he spoke out
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about it this week saying his 9-year-old daughter luna who has epilepsy could lose vital health care coverage if congress does not act. david, we wanted to hear from you directly as someone involved with this for your family. >> the chip program is a bynum program set up about 20 years ago. what it does is it provides health insurance, comprehensive health insurance for families of low to moderate income. which is a pretty broad spectrum of people in america because the program covers people up to almost a median income families. for a family of four. it provides us with our health care insurance. it is good insurance, reliable health care insurance and the kind of insurance i could count on when my daughter began to have seizures and was focused on
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carrying for her and not worrying about the costs. >> this is your daughter luna, she is 9 now. >> yes, she is. >> we have some pictures up. i understand you shared these with us and i understand she plays the piano and is doing pretty well. as for what chip covers, doctors visits, prescriptions, 39% of kids here covered by medicaid or chip. where does this go? what happens if your coverage does run out? for some people, 56 days is when it hits. >> right. so if the funding runs out, then the children on the chip coverage will no longer have health insurance. because of the way in which the affordable care act is currently structured, if you are eligible for chip coverage, you are not eligible for being on the affordable care act. so in order for those children to get any coverage at all, that would require congress to alter
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the affordable care act to allow for children currently on clip to get health insurance. for the most part, i think could you say pretty fairly that those 9 million children would have no health insurance at all. >> it's very real. hearing from you as someone, you sound very knowledgeable about the broader policy issues but also something that hits home. i wanted to mention, as you well know, the political roots of the program are very broad. massachusetts liberal ted kennedy and utah conservative orrin hatch teamed up for this idea and president clinton signed it in 1997. i want to bring in our correspondent for the nation, joan walsh, who has discussed this issue and the impact of it before. it used to be less divisive. what do you see happening now? >> i just think, this has become a ridiculously partisan issue, as we know.
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i wish families like david's and those watching that i a thread watching the affordable care act, i wish they could sue the republican congress for pain and suffering. people like david and luna and his wife are now worried about something they could reblacks and focus her schooling and piano playing. as you said, minnesota, north carolina, arizona, the district of columbia. they're going to run out in december. other states will are not out by march. and there is no urgency. the house is playing games with this. they're being told if they expand it, no one is asking the tax cuts for the wealthy be paid
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for. no one is asking new budgets be paid for. it is only when it comes to our disabled folks and low income folks we have to figure out a divisive way to pay for it. my heart goes out to david. i hope congress does the right thing here. >> speak tom and the insurance rate for children more than doubled under this pral. the uninsured rate, meaning through this program which started out bipartisan. more and more children were covered long before any debate over quote, unquote obamacare. >> yes. the way i see it is, it is relative relatively simple. i want every child in america to have good solid health insurance. and i don't think that's a political issue. i don't think anyone feels children shouldn't have good
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health care. i would like to see our congress did the right thing and as soon as possible, pass a clean and packs of the. from my perspective as a father and business owner, i do see incredibly irresponsible games being played to score political points and i think it is tragic and immature and i hope they can grow up and do their job that we put them there to do. >> speaking for myself, i appreciate you speaking, sharing your story and sharing what you and your family is going through which i know can be a difficult thing. this is a huge story. if you're watching at home and you haven't heard that this deadline ran, that may be our fault in the media, for letting the deadline run but thank you for putting it on the radar and joan walsh for putting it on the
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radar. coming up, controversial form he trump adviser steve bannon is backing a new candidate. this time he wants michael grimm to get his seat back. he served prison time for tax evasion and he is here on "the beat." results it was a shocker. i'm everything. i'm from all nations. i would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark? because i'm everything. and i marked other. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. steve chooses to walk over the26.2 miles,9 days... that's a marathon. and he does it with dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl's. born to move.
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donald trump starts a lot of fights but where voters weigh in, trump lost. the primary where steve bannon's insurgent candidate beat his opponent. michael grimm pled guilty to. at a evasion in 2015. he was released in april after seven months in jail. and whether republicans like it or not, he is back in the spotlight to force another potential gop civil war with a primary challenge to get his old seat back. excongressman and ex-con is here on "the beat" this evening.
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and you had a widely covered confrontation with a journalist. grimm threatened to throw that reporter off the capitol balcony. >> just finally, before we let you go, since we have you here. we haven't had a chance -- >> anything that's off topic. >> what about -- >> thank you. michael grimm is back in the spotlight and joins me for this exclusive interview. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> you look at that clip, is that the guy running for congress or are you different now? >> well, i'm still the same
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person. but i think any real person has a bad day and makes a mistake. for five years i dealt with reporters and never had a problem. on that day, i let my emotions get ahead of me. it was one of those days ifrgs taking three steps forward and five back and there's no excuse. i apologized. i said something i shouldn't have said. >> you're coming out of jail for pleading guilty on tax evasion. are you sorry for that? >> i'll sorry that i had delivery off the books. tax evasion makes it sound so ominous like i'm al capone. i guarantee you you go to restaurants every day is that every delivery boy who is delivering food is off the books. i had three delivery boys and a dish wash he off the books. in the entire history of this city, that is a civil fine. a civil matter. except for one person. michael grimm. >> i'm not making it sound like al capone. you said, concealing over
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$900,000 in restaurant revenue and saying you knowingly made these misleading statements even though employees had been paid in cash. that's how you described it. >> that $900,000 is notquote, e been paid in cash, that's how you described it. >> that $900,000 number is not accurate, it's a little bit less than that. that's over many years and that also included about 14 months that i didn't even own the restaurant, but that was part of the deal they wanted to make because the number was too small. but the point is, again, why is it a civil matter? over 10,000 of these fines have been given out to restaurant owners since the beginning of the history of the city of new york, i'm the first one criminally charged because the entire justice department was weaponized against me for political purposes. they wanted me out of office. but i shouldn't have had delivery boys off the books, because i shouldn't have been like every other business owner, i should have been better. and i regret that. >> you want to go back congress. do you think former felonies or
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ex-convicts like yourself have the right to vote? >> someone who should never have been a felony, sure. >> should all ex-convicts have the right? >> no. but the crime is the justice department making it a felony when i should have gotten a civil fine. if you're going to tell me that every single restaurant owner right now down the politic shou block should all be lined up and taken to prison and made felons, that's a valid position to have, but then change the policy. you can't have mayor de blasio going out thanking business owners for hiring people off the books and then in a sanctuary city, and only singling out michael grimm. that's the problem. >> but on the voting, is your position that you can go and a convict, be an ex-con, and get back into congress, but other people shouldn't even have the right to vote? >> that's a misnomer when you say, they don't have the right to vote. i have the right to vote. >> right, it depends on the state. but mitch mcconnell has said, basically, states have a significant interest in reserving the right to vote to those who have abided by the
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social contract. leaders in your party, do, i think as you know, oppose the right to vote for a lot of ex-convicts like yourself? >> not like myself. i think they oppose it for people especially that do violent crimes. people that are really breaking the law, not civil matters, okay? a civil matter is a civil matter and a crime is a crime. i was an fbi agent for over 11 years. and i believe in the law, absolutely. but there is a big difference between a civil infraction and a felony. >> now, you mentioned sanctuary cities is i think what you're calling new york city. you previously voted to protect so-called d.r.e.a.m.ers. donald trump promised to deport them. was he wrong? >> no. well, first of all, that specific vote, if you look at the legislation, there was a poison pill in there. so, i would have to really research that vote, but from what i remember, there was a bit of a poison pill. when you look at legislation, it's not always exactly what it seems to be. if there's a poison pill in there -- >> do you support deportation of d.r.e.a.m.ers then?
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>> i think that the daca issue is the one thing that republicans have to stand firm on, because it's the leverage that we need to get real reform and to actually get, i would say, number one, let's start with securing the borders. number two, let's end chain migration. number three. let's actually have an immigration system that works, so that good, law-abiding owners of restaurants and owners of other businesses have a robust guest worker program, so that they don't have to put a dishwasher off the books. because, there's no one else coming for that job. and that's what people don't want to talk about. but no one shows up for the dishwasher job, except the people that are off the books. so what do you do if you own a business. i want to get you on guns, you're a candidate, this is a big issue. if we could do lightning round on some of them. bump stocks, should they be banned? >> i think it's very clear that the atf has a jurisdiction to do that. and they have to go back and re-evaluate that. >> should they do it? >> yeah, i think the atf has to look at that.
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>> when you say say, look at those, are you for banning bump stocks? should the atf ban them? >> i think the atf should. >> assault weapons and assaul assault-style weapons. >> i think they already. >> would you be for a ban on -- >> i think they are. >> semiassault -- >> no, satenator feinstein's bi i don't support. >> background checks? >> if they're done properly, yes. >> would you vote for the background check that's been proposed, like after sandy hook. >> whose bill is that? >> the sandy hook -- >> i think there's more than one bill. >> the senate version would be, you had chris murphy put something forward that says, close these loopholes and have national background checks. >> again, here's the problem -- and i'm not dodging the problem at all. what i have seen in almost all of this legislation is it's way too broad. so they -- >> too broad on guns? >> too broad meaning they're bringing in other things. like, there was legislation that would have prevented veterans from getting guns unless they
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had a note from the doctor and they could have been there because of a myriad of reasons. they had press because they couldn't pay their finances and now they can't get a gun. no, i won't support that. >> final question, do you expect president trump come campaign for you or against you in this primary? >> no, i would expect him to stay out of this primary. >> you want him just out? leave it alone. >> i didn't say want, i would say, if i was the president, i wouldn't get involved in a primary. >> former congressman michael grimm, thank you for your coming in and appreciate your time. >> thank you. ahead, we have more breaking news about rex tillerson, up next. copd makes it hard to breathe. so to breathe better, i go with anoro.
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breaking news right into our newsroom. minutes ago, nbc reporting on trump's ongoing feud with secretary of state rex tillerson and new details on the fallout. nbc's national political reporter, carol lee, joins me. carol, what do you have? >> well, what we know is that chief of staff kelly staid tsyek from traveling with the president to las vegas yesterday in order to try to contain some of the fallout from nbc's reporting on rex tillerson. and as part of that effort, he summoned secretary mattis and tillerson over to the white house for a meeting in which they talked about how to carve out a path forward. what's significant about that is if you recall kelly and mattis, the defense secretary were the two officials who convinced secretary tillerson to stay in july when he was threatening to resign, as we reported yesterday. the other thing is that vice president pence, who was in
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phoenix at the time, was very upset with what he was learning and he called secretary tillerson and said, you need to fix this, which is what led to secretary tillerson's statement. >> wow. this is a report that you have pushed that has shook the white house, i know. we're out of time on "the beat." it expect we'll be seeing more from you on nbc and msnbc tonight. my apologies to chris matthews, whose show starts now. furious. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington with some breaking news. nbc news is reporting tonight that president trump was furious after our report that secretary of state rex tillerson called him a moron. vice president mike pence and tillerson talked about and that led to tillerson's remarkable

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