tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC October 6, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
so this is his moment. the original face of the franchise. let's go. i have confidence in him. so buckle up, chicago. you've got your championship. it's time for washington. i'm putting my red on. i'll see you at the game. that's all we have tonight. we'll be back on monday. if it's sunday, catch "meet the press." "the beat" starts right now. >> chuck, i didn't know we were doing this. i would have brought my mariners hat. >> oh, are they in the -- for what? they're not playing in october. >> for sentimental reasons? does that fit into a jacket? chuck, have a great
weekend. we begin with all the talk about the wall. not that wall. i'm talking about the wall that republican intel chairman richard burr said he hit when trying to reach the author ofrt trump dossier. >> as it relates to the dossier, unfortunately, the committee has hit a wall.
>> burr made news this week by suggesting steele would not talk on senate investigators. not even a little bit. there was a wall, remember? and then news broke that steele is talking to bob mueller. continuing many months of fbi scrutiny of the explosive claims in the trump russia dossier. and then last night rachel maddow reported that steele is happy to talk to senate investigators. >> an associate of steele test us that in fact very recently, in late september, christopher steele in london related to washington through this associate that mr. steele in fact would be happy to meet with richard burr and senator mark warner. >>
that is very different than what the republican chairman had suggested this week. and this discrepancy is important. if steele is ready to give his intel to investigators, and they are suggesting otherwise at the same time, then maybe this doesn't all who know steele's shoulders. maybe there is no wall.
maybe there is more of a negotiation how he provides what he has. if fact, within just the last two hours, it's nbc's ken dilanian reporting on that development. >> our sources for the story were sort of taking issue with the way the chairman of the intelligence committee characterized the situation with steele. he basically said, look, we've asked to talk to him and he's refused. apparently it is more complicated. steele has offered to talk to the committee but they haven't been able to come to an agreement on conditions, on the circumstances. >> okay. let that sink in. we've been talking about the dossier for a while. what this means when you think about it, a debate over how to testify is obviously different than flatly refusing to testify. and we've been told that one of the sticking points was that he was unwilling to discuss it. they are open to any credible offer to meet with mr. steele. so why are all these leaks
coming right now? well, the sources, some of them are linked to steele which suggests that he wants to respond to senator bur, basically blaming him for the impasse which raises the question of whether senator burr like some other republicans would rather shoot down the claims in the dossier than reckon with they will. that makes his exchange with what was the recently fired fbi director all the more interesting. >> at the time of your departure from the fbi, was the fbi able to confirm any criminal allegations contained in the steele document? >> mr. cheryl, i don't think that's a question i can answer in an open setting. it goes into the detail of the investigation. >> so that is burr. then there is the most powerful republican in the country, donald trump. he's been asking intel officials to shoot down this dossier long before the investigation was even over. >> ever transactional, he simply
asked me to publicly refute the infamous dossier which i couldn't and wouldn't do. >> the key word there is couldn't. clapper, saying in his role as a factual intelligence professional, he could not refute something that was still under investigation. and yes, might be true. donald trump made refuting parts of the dossier his first priority in his first press conference as president-elect. >> i was in russia years ago with the miss universe contest which did very well. the moscow area. did very, very well. and i told many people, be careful. because you don't want to see yourself, cameras all over the place. not just russia. all over. does anyone really believe that story? i'm also very much of a germ phobe, by the way. believe me. >> with me now, ken dilanian who has been working this story.
ken, what is this fight about at this point? we have pretty smart viewers on "the beat." they've seen our coverage over the course of the week. we've reported what senator burr said when he said it but it seems this soup is a little thicker than he suggested. >> your reporting. >> well said. i think this is about you understand what conditions steele would provide information to the committee. burr was very adamant that he wants to know, for example, who paid for the dossier. and we know that it started as a republican opposition research project and morphed into a democrat opposition research project. another issue may be sources. steele, my understanding, is guarding, he had many sources and sub sources in russia. burr said he wants to know
identity of all those people. steele may not want to give that up. he may have an arrangement with the fbi, who after all he's been working for a long time. that's what i think it is about. i don't understand why senator burr characterized it in the hard line way that he did based on my conversation with sources who are suggesting it is much more complicated. >> and some of it has come out with the dossier who he have impressed, there are parts we don't report on at all. but one thing with real verified material. it says trump tried to get business deals in russia. we now know from e-mails are out, they did try to get deals in russia. >> i think the big news here, the big picture is that christopher steele who
originally was dismissed as some kind of figure in a seedy overcoat, is turning into an increasingly central and apparently judging from what i've been hearing behind the scenes, credible figure here. he's been interviewed by mueller's team. he's been taken seriously in terms of what he wrote. people who are putting together public chronology of events with what was describe in the christopher steele's memos, are finding a lot of parallels and similarities. so it seems what's happening here, anybody who is an ally of donald trump's, or who wants to be an ally of donald trump, will focus increasingly on the behavior and credibility of christopher steele, and side issues like his sources and his funding. not what is in the memo itself which apparently is something that mueller and company take seriously. >> you make a great point as you so often do and it draws the line all the way back to that faithful transition press
conference. here was donald trump doing what you just said and maybe some attack dogs following the lead. take a listen. >> it's all fake news. phony stuff. it didn't happen. it was a group of people who got together, sick people, and they put that crap together. >> how do they get together and speak to that point? >> one thing i will say to react to both what ken and howard have been saying, if i were steele, i would be very wary about giving my sources up to the congressional committee as well. i talk on twitter all the time. people are asking me, who leaked this? who leaked that? most of the stories seemed to grom somebody on the congressional side. so to the extent he wants to protect sources, i would have a lot more faith in the fbi to do that. as to the president's interest in trying to suggest there's nothing to it, i think it is fairly obvious, there are very
explosive allegations in that dossier. your viewers can find it online. associates have put themselves out there making assertions and they have potential liability for that. that's something i suspect mueller will be trying to chase down and verify. >> and then i want you to be a trumpologist for us. there are things he does that are wrong in the sense they violate the rules. he does so knowingly. and then there are times when i want to read to you, he seems the potentially misunderstand the way it works. this was him speaking to the "new york times" about when comey brought him privately. when he, comey, brought this dossier to me. i said this is made up junk. i didn't think about anything. i just thought, man, this is such a phony deal.
in my opinion, he shared it so i would think he had it out there. "the new york times" asking as leverage? trump saying, yeah, i think so. in retrospect. based on everything we know, that's not how intelligence briefings work. do you think donald trump was genuinely confused about that? >> my understanding was that the intelligence community thought very carefully about how to give the president-elect a heads up about this. they weren't really trying to shoot an arrow across his bow in doing that. they picked comey fatefully to be the messenger and i don't think that comey intended, he wasn't playing j. edgar hoover here. i don't think he was trying to dangle this as a threat in front of donald trump. i know donald trump and i know he reacts viscerally. when he senses any form of danger, he personalizes it. he makes it personal combat and i think it is likely that trump viewed it as a threat.
i don't think comey meant it that way but that's surely the way donald trump saw it. this is a guy who studied richard nixon, the watergate era, was fascinated by nixon, what did he right, what he did wrong. viewed the white house before he got in it. in his drama-filled mind, he saw this as the opening act and it indeed turned out to be lt. >> so where do we go based on it. >> for reasons that we talked about, dealing with the house and the senate. he wants to deal with professional investigators that he trusts and that seems to be mueller and the fbi. i find it significant that at this late date, one year after the fbi first got parts of the dossier, that they are still asking questions about it. it suggests that the leads they're following up, further things they're trying to check out.
>> we're one year out from when they were looking at the dossier. one year out from the "access hollywood" tape and we're just under one year out from the response of the "access hollywood" tape which we know was a very sophisticated russian attack. we have more on that later in the show. thank you for joining me. have a very good friday night. now, i mentioned it. you've seen it. the trump "access hollywood" tape. have you seen it like this? you're looking at the national mall blocks from the white house where it is playing on a loop. the tape came out a year ago tomorrow and we'll dig into comments about women as president and a new rule today that affects only women. and my exclusive interview with ted cruz who says some very concerning things happened to him online from russian bots potentially whenever he criticized donald trump. and first on the beat, a reporter who went to the small
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. it takes about five minutes for the united states to launch a nuclear strike. five minutes between the time a president issues the order, which he has the authority to do alone, and when a nuke launches. that fact is as serious as a heart attack and it is why donald trump's recent cavalier warning about the calm before the storm is giving some people heart palpitations which did not come with this new winking performance. >> mr. president, what did you mean by calm before the storm? >> thank you. you'll find out. >> you'll find out? >> the original comment came in this exchange.
>> you guys know what this represents? maybe it's the calm before the storm. >> what's the calm before the storm? what storm is it? we have the world's greatest military people. thank you all for coming. thank you. >> what storm, mr. president? >> you'll find out. >> give us a hint. >> thank you, everybody. >> if you take that seriously, it is painful to watch. and noting this absurdity is not really an ideological observation, it has nothing to do with which party comes after trump's name. as a ploy or as an antic, it does distract from many things. but they could also be important because trump's theatrical style overlaps with a real feud with
north korea and real tension to diffuse it. jamal, what do we do with this and does it merit our attention? >> well, it always merits our attention. he is the president of the united states. so as much as i would like to turn him off and not pay attention, he really does have access to the button to the nuclear weapons. i look at donald trump and i see someone trying to negotiate as if he is doing a real estate deal. and at the end of the deal, he wants to haggle and say firgts doesn't work, i'll just blow they will up and walk away. you can't blow up a country where millions of americans are at stake. i'm not the person you want to negotiate with. nor does this make donald trump you want on the front lines with
north korea. >> i think you put it well. i'm not one to get meta. we're here doing real work. if you look at the dlinl under your face, it says asked about this ominous warning, trump winks at reporters. >> yeah. >> your old boss would never have conducted foreign policy like this. . >> never in a million years. and the analogy should stop there. but a lot of the reporting about this episode mention that had the president alluded to being crazy as part of his negotiating tactics. and i would ask members of my own party, we hear all the time this president's self-proclamation that as he wonderful negotiator. what is it that he has successfully negotiated? that he has brought us to the brink north korea is or on the domestic front that he rolled over at the first opportunity, the first deal that chuck and nangsy offered him and put his own party in a really difficult
position when it came to the upcoming agenda. he talks about being a great negotiator but we have zero proof of that. as that timeless maxim goes, you can be crazy and good. >> staff wants him to portray him as crazy. you tell him, this guy is so crazy, co-pull out of a deal at any minute. you don't think it's working. >> no. show me one element of proof where it is working. >> jamal? >> if this is a strategy, i would like the president to coordinate that strategy with other people on the national security team and maybe let some other people in on it so we know he is not actually telegraphing that we're going to war. the other day, you had sarah sanders saying, the time for stauk over. normally that means it is knuckle up time. so if we're not going to get into a fight, then don't use
words like that that make us believe that's where we're headed. >> right. and i want to read to you from a president, richard nixon with kissinger. kissinger said, look, if i say this president is extremely tough. you've been wrong every time. and 9/11on says, i can't control him. put that it way. and kissinger says yeah, and imply that you might use nuclear weapons. and he says, he's not going to cave. the difference is they can that behind closed doors in a way that didn't sxleek that had a doctrine of foreign policy behind it. there were critics. there were problems with the vietnam era policies. but trump seems to only have learned the branding or the headline from that and isn't doing the work. that was two people coordinating foreign policy. and this week has been him undermining rex tillerson in
public. >> and an even more recent example. gorbachev talked about one of the reasons the soviet union collapsed, that they saw the resolve that reagan had and it was backed up by actions and not just words. and the soviets realized they couldn't bury us. and there's no reason to think this president has done anything to make them question. >> so if you were staffing this president, that might be a big if, how do you clean this up? he's got his adlibs taking up days of staff time as they try to make something crazy, sane. >> the thing is that you have to know what the person is up to. the problem is, nobody knows what the president is up to.
at any moment, he could decide that's what i was doing yesterday. today i'm doing something completely different. even if his staff wanted to clean something up, there is no telling where the president will land when he wakes up. >> and the larger question, don't you know i'm loco, foreign policy or not? we'll leave it there. still ahead, donald trump's fight on. >> lyin' ted. >> donald, you're a snifling coward. leave heidi alone. a top cruz agent is going to be here to talk about the strange threats he received and does it relate to russian
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donald trump has frequently dismissed the russian hacking as sour grapes. some new windows are opening into how that might have worked. an aide to the republican who came in second to donald trump, ted cruz, has begun speaking out about suspicious online attacks he faced during the primaries, including an odd pattern where he faced online attacks whenever he talked about trump on air but not when he talked about other gop rivals like rubio or bush. bob mueller's team is investigating whether russia simply helped trump on its own initiative or if he engaged in a criminal conspiracy to get their help. like making a deal or asking for it. >> i will tell you this. russia, if you're listening, i home you're able to find the
30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> that cruz campaign, joining me exclusively on "the beat." first, just on the facts. walk us through what would happen during the primary when you would speak specifically about trump. >> so my role during the campaign was to come on programs like this, talk about our campaign and then get very tough against our republican points in the primary. and if we were getting tough with john kasich or marco rubioful i would step off the air, look at my phone, check my twitter feed and see what response we're getting. and there would be almost no response other than when trump was being mentioned. when it did come to those times when it got really tough both
ways, you showed some clips of that. i would step off the air and you would see hundreds of tweets. and this would happen with others on the campaign as well. so it was very odd. the level of reaction that you would see in those cases. then if you look at the individual twitter pkts were responsible for generating those messages, you would see a suspicious pattern. those accounts very often, the profile would not be of a human being. it would be a flag or a back ground. you would notice certain buzz words that were all in the profile, a description of the account. there was no geographic location listed for where that account was based. the back ground picture was not specific to any time of individual. >> so during the primary, this is happening to you. what did you think at the time? you thought these were hacks or trolls? fake supporters? what did you think? >> well, first it was clear that
it was disproportionate. it would only happen when we were going up against one candidate. and then we weren't in a position to ascribe it to one particular source. and then one other thing, the type of hysterical language being used, always very much over the top. very out of the ordinary for your typical conservative activist. and the language very often was not very good english. it was very often written, it almost sounded as though this is a nonnative english speaker who was trying to speak in ways that they think americans speak. >> so when did you first start to make that zmeks you just said that this attack, these online messages, some of them seemed like they might be coming from foreigners or nonnative speakers. was it during or after the end
of the primary that you started thinking about this connecting to russia? >> well, only after the primaries were over did it become apparent that there are russians and the like, enin the activities which we know they were engaged in. back during the primary, we weren't able to attribute it to anyone. we just knew there was bott like activity. this came out because earlier in the week, the heritage foundation hosted an event discussing russian propaganda. i was just in the auns and asked a question and a little of this story. and they were quick to point out that this was common for eastern europe, ukraine and poland and
elsewhere. >> we're almost out of time. do you think that the special counsel and the special investigator should look at this conduct during primary? >> well, i think we want to know totality of what russians or anyone else was engaged in. and i think the congressional committee has to run it down completely so the american people have a clear understanding, the next time you go online, be careful before you share an article that sounds too absurd. not in nebraska. >> you're saying the investigation should look at the gop primary. >> i think the entire election cycle should be fair game to look at. >> fascinating. and some of this stuff like. so reporting and analysis makes so much sense as time goes on. i've talked to you before.
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right now, donald trump's infamous hollywood tape is playing on a loop for 12 hours straight. a woman's advocacy group marking the one-year anniversary reminding people of the president's past. just about everyone who follows politics can remember where they were when the tape hit. >> i'll use some tictacs in case i start kissing her. it is like a magnet. i just start kissing. when you're a star, they let you do anything. grab them by the -- do you know anything. >> much of the nation recoiled. some trump agents refused to defend their boss that weekend but not all. >> i know from talking to him that he genuinely feels very sorry about this. and it is certainly not the views that he holds today.
>> i think donald trump showed both friday night and then sunday night the kind of humility to admit that he was wrong. >> that's order a decade ago. i think he is a different man. >> activists say it goes to two larger points. one, how trump policies impact women of the just today, the trump administration announced health care that will deny many women health care through their employer. and two, how the leader of the free world acts like this. >> and where are you from? go ahead. come here. where are you from? we have all of this beautiful irish press. katrina perry. she has a nice smile on her face. i'll bet she treats you well.
>> again, you're going to give her the same one? >> no. she is not the same lady. they are sitting side by side. >> we have a lot of blond women in finland. >> with me, the political reporter for the "huffington post." liz, take it away. >> i think it is so fitting on the one-year anniversary of donald trump bragging about assaulting women, he is waging an assault on women's reproductive health and rights. and that he is specifically going after women's possibility or ability or agency to control their own sexual freedom. i love what you played before, the segment. donald trump has spent his entire presidency so far demeaning women, taking away their rights. whether it is title ten, equal pay policies. health care. it would take too long to name all the ways that he has
disenfranchised women. so it is fitting. shocking but unsurprising at the same time. >> absolutely. we're talking about a man who disrespected women not only with his rhetoric but with his policies. here we have in the name of religious freedom saying women won't have access to birth control. i don't need to point this out but i will because for some people it is necessary. preventing pregnancy is for shifrging ovarian sifts, for acne, painful periods, all kinds of health reasons that birth control is prescribed. this is not a theocracy. you cannot just cherry pick. >> it is health care that affects women. the reasons they take it would go to the individual basis of a decision between the person and the doctor. so we see some headlines that make this, only as you're pointing out. only about contraception or
sex-related tifd. which presupposes knowledge about individual cases. that's why it is called policy and not individual case. this larger discussion about this president's treatment of women and policies toward women goes to his approval rating west hear a lot about how donald trump is popular among his people. very unpopular historically but he has his 30 something. we hear that a lot. it is and true that there is an overall 30 something support. with you as you both know, that's not the case. his approval among women this year is 29%. 29%. it is only by having the approval among men in the low 40s that gets him to that 30 number. and there are plenty of republican, his base is overwhelmingly male at this point. >> go ahead. >> yeah. if you have the same man who is bragging about having sexually
assaulted women and he is saying that women shouldn't have access to birth control and he is saying that abortion should be banned, it comes down to this one unifying thread. that he wants to control women's bodies and women voters won't respond well to that. >> especially young female voters. i always come back to that. and he was speaking to this. he said it was a long time ago. if he continues to do things chip away at women's freedoms, and something as essential as preventive health care, like birth control, something that a lot of young women support. that's when he will lose the base. the republican base. >> so what would you say to young men? >> that's an excellent question and it is a question he i don't
hear enough of. we talk about how donald trump, the women's issues and how he impacts women. but he is lowering the standard for men. men are affected by birth control. there's a study that says 52% of men don't think they benefit from birth control. >> it is hard to get pregnant without a man. >> that's true. we don't self-impregnate. he said it was locker room talk. his wife said that's boy talk. that lowers the standard and it should be insulting to men as well. >> thank you both. have a good weekend. thank you for being here. coming up, a first on the beat. a reporter who went to the small idaho town who turned out to be one of the centers of the misinformation campaign. and then later, everyone's favorite friday segment. who needs he to fall back? (vo) do not go gentle into that good night,
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new report on russian fake news in 2016 and how it roiled a small town in idaho. it all started when there was blame syrian refugees. >> the facts shifted. a gang of syrian refugee men raped a little girl at knife point. websites started pumping out about the town. a form he trump adviser dispatched an visor to the falls. >> most of the coverage we saw contained some bits and pieces of facts. and then a time line filled in with other information. >> the twin falls dwroom seemed to target people like rick martin who run as local group who is trying to end the refugee settlements. >> do you believe it was part of the obama strategy to reduce the
number of muslims in america? >> i believe his father had some time of back ground. >> barack obama is not a muslim. >> i'm not saying that he is a muslim but i believe he favored bringing more muslims here to make it an islamic country. >> this is the one that organized -- >> do you believe the news reported by outlets by the daily sgeeft the new york times that russia was using system to interfere in twin falls? >> i don't believe the russian hs any legal involvement. they have ht, a network which i'm sure you're familiar with. i do go online. >> do you know it is a russian backed news organization? >> yes. i watch networks that report my world view. >> that journalist is here with her review and how people in idaho are looking back at the incident. >> i think i joked in the
newsroom one day, this is probably just the russians behind thought and herv a good laugh. >> so you that i be lished this front page article. what was the reaction like in. >> there were plenty of people who dismissed the report. called us fake news. my contact information got put on a white supremacist website and someone threatened to take my kids and do to them what was done to that girl in the laundry room. >> death threats. my wife had death threats. >> katie is here with me to discuss it. you went out there. what was the most important thing you found with regard to what happened when people find pout russia is behind some of these stories? >> well, i think there's what we don't know about the specific involvement. fab has can you be firmed it has closed 450 accounts.
one of those facebook pages was a page called secured borders which was spreading false -- a bunch of misinformation about this town, twin falls, idaho. within a town people don't necessarilyidaho. within the town the people don't feel like they've been targeted by the kremlin. >> this is one of the facebook accounts that has been handed over to the senate. a lot of people look at that, the irony of foreigners staging an anti-foreigner facebook group to build these events. but you're saying on the ground people aren't feeling like they were duped. >> people who fall for the fake news now believe that this news is fake news. >> you know how depressing it is. >> i think it's very depressing. i asked the mayor of twin falls do you have any advice for future mayors of fake news spots and he says he didn't.
twin falls had fake news before fake news was a thing. he did everything, the town newspaper did everything to correct the facts and misinformation being published by breitbart. there's nothing more than could have done. >> you looked at this as an overlap or a nexus. i'm going to put some of the head lines up from breitbart. they're not all 100% false but they reflect this effort to say all of this was explicitly refugees moving into idaho and raping children and the story was different than that. what do you think is important for people to know about how breitbart played a role here and what they got wrong? >> this is a small dairy farm in southern idaho. 45,000 people. the fact that breitbart dispatched a reporter to live there for weeks and weeks reporting on this one case is shocking. what officials in twin falls want to stress is that, you know, unfortunately it, sexual assault incidents involving
minors, which this case did, they're quite common, happen about six times a year in twin falls, idaho alone. this case was different because the minors involved were refugees. but the excessive coverage was something very different. >> and may have reflected a desire not to much to address the problem, which is a serious one whenever it happens, but to cast it in a larger national narrative that met other people's political agendas. you went out and did the reporting. thank you so much. >> you can go to nbc.com/leftfield to see the report there, more of the journalism whether it's completely irrelevant to changing people's minds. you can decide for yourself. it is friday. and you know what that means. it is time to fall back. who do you think needs to fall back. send your ideas to me and hear all of our ideas up next.
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weinstein. he's issued an apology. but not only should he fall back but men need to stand up, especially in your last segment about trump and the one-year anniversary of the tape. and respect rose for using her voice and having the courage to stand up to harvey. but many to stand up and believe women. this is happening -- don't just giggle along like billy bush when someone is talking to you about grabbing the woman by the -- say something and say it's wrong. don't allow anytime the workplace. >> this is not a time for things to be called locker room talk. say no, this is not okay and this is why. >> michael, keeping it serious on fallback but an important topic. >> friday afternoon. >> jared hill, who needs to fall back? >> i'm told this has never happened on the show before but my fallback friday is for a colleague of mine here at nbc.
take a look. >> the question is whether those names lead to something that matters. you know, there's an old southern saying, the hit dog always hollers. means if you're making a lot of noise, maybe you have a guilty conscience. >> ari, you have plenty of stra street kred but you said that so wrong. the phrase is a hit dog with holler. >> can i practice? >> and you said a hit dog will always holler. can you give it to me a little better. a hit dog will holler. >> a hit dog will holler. >> having known ari for a long time, his ability to recite jay z lyrics is much better. >> we like to go to different places. we're the news. we cover everything that we can.
look, this is my first time being told to fall back. consider it done. >> there you go. you fell back. >> consider it done. >> a hit dog with holler. >> can i do mine? acid wash jeans need to fall back. this is what they used to look like. >> get the new wonderful funky snowflake acid wash denim starting at $19.99. >> and this is what they look like now. designer stellar mccartney trying to bring it back. this is on the runway. this is supposedly a fresh hot couture fashion. i don't think you can bring acid wash back. >> we're both in jeans today so i feel like it's casual friday. >> you catch me in acid wash jeans, it's not a good day. >> it's like the bell bottoms. >> the producer asked if we had a photo of you in acid wash
jeans. >> thank you both for being here and thank you for my first fallback. is it going to be a tradition? >> you're very welcome. >> see you back here on monday 6:00 p.m. eastern or tonight when i fill in for lawrence o'donnell. up next is "hardball." calm before the storm. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. the president is at war with his secretary of state. he's reportedly about to decertify the iran nuclear deal and kick it back to congress and making cryptic comments about a coming storm that nobody knows what he's thinking. what is the mworld thinking of the man with the title commander in chief. rex tirl son's attempt to clean up this