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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  October 10, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks my friend. three years ago this week a comedian named han bell burris did a late night set at a theater in philadelphia and he did something in that stand upset that he had been doing on and off in his stand up routine for a long while, but for some reason when he said it that specific night three years ago in october 2014, for some reason when he said it that night it set something off. >> public teflon image. i've been on stage and people think i'm making it up. i'm like bill kos by has a lot of rape allegations. no. no. they called me captain kick him out. no. that's is -- if you didn't know
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about it, trust me. google bill kos by rape. it's not funny. it has more results than han bell burris. >> so that's a clip from a comedy set from han balance burris three years ago this week in philadelphia. and that joke that he's making there at the end about all the online search results you will find, more than even you'll get from googling han balance burris's name if you google bill kos by and rape, he was right about that. there were lots of allegations about bill kos by circulating more or less informally for years. and you can google that stuff. i mean, so much so at the time that burris had been regularly referencing those allegations about bill kos by in his stand up act, and it was just sort of obscure enough that some of the laughter would be incredulous and wild and that's a crazy
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thing to say and some people recognizing it and thinking, oh, yeah, i have heard that. he had been doing it for a while, but for some reason when he did it it that specific night october 26, 2014 in philly, it took off. that clip of that portion of his show got picked up by philadelphia magazine. dan mcconveyed wrote it up for philadelphia magazine. the sub head on this story here, comedian han balance burr rescue called bill kos by a rapist. kos by has been accused of sexual assault by multiple women. so it got picked up from that comedy routine by philadelphia magazine. then that got picked up by multiple other news reports. it became quickly a sustained topic of national conversation. and within just a few weeks a woman who had previously made a serious sexual assault allegation against bill kos by, she wrote about what she says was her experience in the "washington post." then bill kos by himself got asked about it in an interview in npr.
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then the day after the npr interview another woman came forward to make another, turns out to be very similar allegation against bill kos by. then the day after that another woman came forward with a similar allegation. then the day after that, yet another woman came forward with a very similar allegation. this time it was a famous model, very well-known name janice particular inson. and at that point bill cosby's shows started getting pulled off tv, netflix. then interestingly, news organizations started to come out with their own accounts of kos by over the years or people who worked for him over the years trying to stop news organizations or stop reporters from even asking about these allegations let alone from reporting on them in detail. by the end of that next month, by the end of november 2014 nine
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more women had come forward, all with remarkable similar allegations about their experiences with bill cosby. and these allegations dated back for decades. some of them were in the 200s, but some of them dated back all the way to the 1960s. and in terms of the women who were making these allegations, it was women who had met him all over the country in all sorts of different circumstances, professional and otherwise, but the allegations that they made about him were remarkable consistent in their descriptions. they alleged that they were drugged and then that they were assaulted. ultimately more than 50 women came forward to accuse bill kos by of rape or sexual assault or other kinds of sexual misconduct. those allegations really had been around for decades, though. the today show and "people magazine" had both reported on a few of the allegations over the years. a civil lawsuit had been filed against bill kos by by one of
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his accusers more than a decade ago. but despite all that hiding in plain sight public record, despite the fact that there for a very long time had been at least a few women who were willing to speak about what they said happened to them, despite those very googleable rumors and allegations, it took until the fall of 2014 for some reason for it to catch, for that story to blow open, which ultimately resulted in more than 50 pem coming forward. and then in the following year december of 2015 bill kos by was charged in conjunction with one of his alleged victim's alleges. he was charged with aggravated indecent assault. in june bill kos by went on trial and the result was a hung jury. the jury was dead locked. bill kos by may or may not face a retrial on the same charges again. this upcoming spring. kos by is now 80 years ollie. he's reportedly getting new
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lawyers in time for that new trial. in squljuly of last year a form anchor at the fox news channel named gretchen carlson filed a lawsuit against roger ailes. among other things gretchen carlson's suit alleged that the reason her career ended at fox is because she refused sexual advance from ailes. within days of her lawsuit, new york magazine named two more women and reported anonymous allegations from four other women, all of whom also claimed sexual harassment by roger ailes at fox. fox then started an internal review of the allegations. they never made a public account of what the findings were from that internal review, but whatever they found led to roger ailes leaving that company. but they also gave him $40 million on his way out the door. soon thereafter they paid out another $20 million to gretchen
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carlson to settle her harassment allegations that she had made against ailes. but even beyond those very large pay outs, this turns out to have been a very expensive time at fox. we later learned that just as roger ailes was being forced out and paid that $40 million on his way out the door, fox was also very soon thereafter secretly paying out another sexual harassment settlement against their other most high profile employee, the former 8:00 p.m. fox news host, who is named bill o'reilly. and that secret pay out to settle a sexual harassment allegation against him, that was followed by another former fox news host filing another sexual harassment lawsuit against o'reilly and fox and then "the new york times" broke the news that fox had paid well over $10 million in more than half a dozen sexual harassment settlements to women who had made ak sigsz against bill
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o'reilly over the course of a decade and a half and in april of this year mr. o'reilly was gone. and as remarkable as it has been to see the collapse, the public collapse of these previously untouchable, almost unimaginably powerful men in american politics and media and culture, honestly, it will not make sense to historians who try to look back on this remarkable time in american culture and politics and the collapse of all of these icons while at the same time those historians will find themselves having to refer to this time period in our country as the trump era. >> i did -- she was married. nancy -- no. this was -- and i moved on her very heavily. in fact, i took her out furniture shopping. she wanted to get some furniture. i said i'll show you where they have some nice furniture. i took her out -- i moved on her like -- i couldn't get there. and she was married. and all of a sudden i see her. she's now got the big -- she's
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totally change her look. >> she's your girl's hotty in the purple. >> whoa. >> whoa. >> yes, the donald is good. >> my man. wait. wait. you've got to look at her when you -- >> set this up. >> give me the -- >> you are -- >> you've got to get this -- can't be too happy. >> yeah. >> that's very funny. >> you and i will walk out. >> oh, my god. >> maybe it's a different woman. >> better not be the publicist. no. it's her. >> yeah. that's her with the gold. i've got to use some particular tax just in casey start kissing her. i'm automatically attracted to beautiful women. i just start kissing them. it's like a magnet. and when you're a star, you can do it. you can do anything. grab them by the -- you can do anything. >> that tape came out a year ago this week, which was one month
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before the presidential election. and one of the things we've talked about in the last few days is how the day that that tape came out a year ago this week, that day was one of the most insane news days in the entire election cycle. it was one of the most insane news days in american politics in a long time. all in the same day. that was hurricane matthew hitting florida. that was the federal government announcing that russia was trying to interfere in our presidential election. then it was that "access hollywood" tape coming out with the presidential candidate of the republican party bragging about groping women without their consent and getting away with it. and that was followed immediately within the hour by wikileaks starting to dump the personal e-mails of the clinton campaign chairman john podesta, his e-mails which had been hacked by russian intelligence. that all happened in the same day before dinnertime. and in the days that followed the "access hollywood" tape, more than a dozen women came forward to make allegations that donald trump in fact had done to them in real life what he was bragging about on that bus.
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everything from forcibly pinning women down and kissing them without their concept to sexually groping women without their consent just as he had described on the bus. and at one point candidate trump said he would sue all those women who are making all those allegations. he never did. he also disparaged some of the women who were making those allegations as essentially too unattractive to be worth him assaulting them. but then, of course, he got elected president. on friday of last week to mark the anniversary of that "access hollywood" tape becoming public the feminist group ultraviolet played that tape on a loop on the national mall for 12 straight hours. they just aired it on a loop from the a.m. to 9:00 p.m., just to as i country we'd get a tangible reminder that the man serving as commander in chief, the man sitting behind the desk in the oval office is that same guy who bragged on tape about being able to get away with sexually assaulting and groping
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women whenever he wanted to because he's a star. it's the trump era. and president trump, like bill o'reilly, like roger ailes before he died, like bill kos by, all of them deny these allegations against them. but this is the era that we are living in. and now it's hollywood. on thursday jodyy canter and megan tu we at the new york times reported out decades of sexual assaults and serious sexual harassment allegations against hollywood mega producer harvey weinstein. we're going to be speaking with new york times reporter jodyy canter about breaking that story. she's going to be here tomorrow night to talk about that new york times reporting here on this show. i'm very happy about that. but by now you've heard the basics of what 2002 we and canter reported out at the new york times. nearly 30 years of allegations. at least eight women named in the story, including famous actors like ashley judd and rose mcgou juan and again what these
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interviews showed from all of these different women for a long period of time is a strikingly consistent pattern of alleged behavior. harvey weinstein alexanderel isolating young women, getting them alone, women who were in a position of either directly work r for him or being professionally dependent on him as a hollywood producer and then the alleged behaviors just textbook sexual harassment up to and including serious sexual assault. repeatedly described as taking off his clothes, exposing himself, fanneding sex, demanding sexual contact of various kinds, refusing to take no for an answer and then allegedly retaliating against young women who managed to escape, managed to escape him, managed to rebuff what he was trying to do. and what the times broke on thursday is these stories about what these eight women allegedly say happened to them when harvey weinstein got them alone. but it's also a story of harvey weinstein not alone.
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it's harvey weinstein himself and the weinstein company trying to keep "the lid" on all these allegations, including at least eight reported cash settlements paid out to women who made claims against harvey weinstein. but as in so many other instances like this, this is also the story of an open secret of this alleged behavior being something that was widely known and widely discussed in the industry. and those of us who are outside the industry wouldn't necessarily have been privy to those rumors, but you know what? because it's the show business industry, we can actually see evidence of that. we can see evidence of how widely this was understood and talked about and tacitly accepted in the fact that harvey weinstein's behavior toward actresses and toward young women was joked about repeatedly, openly, like on tv shows and when they were announcing the
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oscar nominations. >> oh, please. i'm not afraid of anyone in show business. i turned down intercourse with harvey weinstein on no less than three occasions out of five. >> i know how former lovers can have a hold over you long after they're gone. in some ways i'm still pinned under a passed out harvey weinstein and it's thanks giving. >> congratulations you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to harvey weinstein. >> that was as the oscar nominations were being announced that year. and you hear people laughing and laughing and also people groaning. but it's a jokes, right? and the reason the joke worked was because everybody knew what that was about, right? the premise of the joke there was widely held enough that that was considered to be funny. right? at an industry event for the os cars and on tv in general for a national audience. what was well-known enough to be a joke that would land. as recently as like this time
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last week has now because of this reporting exploded. so then now actually for the first time in decades it has costs for harvey weinstein who has been fired from the company that bears his name, the company that will likely no longer bear his name. the times foltd up their initial reporting today with absolutely harrowing further similar allegations from actresses including gwyneth paltrow and angelina joe lee and a number of women who left the industry in part because of what they say happened to them when they were caught alone with harvey weinstein. but now today ronan farrow writing for "the new yorker" magazine has published his own account of his behavior and what ronan farrow has written for "the new yorker" pushes the story even further. and makes the open secret nature of this alleged behavior all the more unfathomable. from his story today, quote, i was told by 13 women that between the 1990s and 2015
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weinstein sexually harassed or assaulted them, allegations that corroborate and overlap with the revelations in "the new york times" and also include far more serious claims. three women told me that weinstein raped them, allegations that include weinstein forcibly performing or receiving oral sex and forcing vaginal sex. quote, four actresses, including mera sore conveniento and rose anna car equity told me they suspected after they complained about them, weinstein had them removed from projects or dissquaded people from hiring them. and, again, this may be at this point the most unfathomable or at least most jaw dropping mart of it. quote, 16 former and current executives and assistants at weinstein's companies told me that they witnessed or had knowledge of unwanted sexual advances and touching at events associated with weinstein's films and in the workplace. all 16 said that the behavior
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was widely known within both mere amaximum and the weinstein company. 16 people who worked there or witnessed it or say they knew about it, and they knew that everybody else knew about it too. now, i should tell you that harvey weinstein, hiss representatives put out a statement in response to the new yorker reporting. i'll read the statement. any allegations of none consensual sex with unequivocally denied by mr. weinstein. never any acts of retaliation against any women for refusing their vans. he cannot speak to anonymous allegations but with respect to any women who have made allegations on the record, mr. weinstein believes that all of these relationships were consensual. mr. weinstein has begun counseling, has listened to the community and is pursuing a better path. mr. weinstein is hoping that if he makes enough progress, he will be given a second chance. that's the response that weinstein and his representatives have made to this new reporting.
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but ronan farrow in his piece for "the new yorker," what he further adds to this story is tape. he has published the audiotape of a woman frankly i, i mean, to a lay observer, it's a woman actively being sexually harassed and pest erred by harvey weinstein. a tape in which he admits that the previous day he had grabbed her breast against her will. he explained to her by way of excusing that behavior, quote, i'm used to it. that tape was apparently made by the nypd as they investigated sexual assault claims by one woman who says she got out of harvey weinstein's clutches and then went to the nearest police precinct to tell them that she had been assaulted by weinstein. so we'll have that tape for you in just a minute if you haven't heard it. but on top of us coming to terms with the fact that these allegations were so widely known and apparently accepted and as in so many of these cases coming
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to the terms with the fact that a large corporate conspiracy was involved in covering this all up, in this case with harvey weinstein, there is now as of today also the question of why this was never ever prosecuted anywhere in any of the decades these allegations were made or talked about and at least one instance reported directly to the police. ronan farrow joins us next. stay with us. when it comes to heartburn trust the brand doctors trust for themselves.
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i'm very uncomfortable right now. >> please come in now in one minute and if you want to leave
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when the guy comes with my jacket -- >> why you touch my breast. >> please come on in. i'm used to that. >> you're used to that? >> yes. please come in. >> no, but i'm not used to that. >> please. come on in. sit in here for a manipulate, please. >> no, i don't want to. >> if you do this now, you're embarrassing me. never call me again. okay? i'm sorry. nice -- i promise you i won't do anything -- >> i know, but yesterday was too much for me. >> i never do another thing for you. five minutes. don't ruin your friendship with me for five minutes. >> that's a recording of hollywood mega producer harvey weinstein. that was secretly captured during a new york police department sting. that audio was objected by ronan farrow who has written a frankly harrowing account of the harassment and assault and rape allegations against harvey wine teen for "the new yorker" magazine. this follows reporting the end of last week from "the new york times" and now ronan farrow
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pushing it into nuclear farrow today. ronan is a contributing correspondent with nin news and he joins us live in studio tonight. it's night to see you. >> good to be here. i'm glad you're covering this, rachel. >> let me start with that tape. can you tell us the circumstances under which that tape was recorded and why it was recorded. >> there was a young woman, an italian philippino model who in a pattern that has shown up again and again in woman after woman's story was spotted by mr. weinstein at an event and subsequently he reached out to set up a meeting and when that meeting transpired at his office, you know, she said he groped her. he grabbed her breasts, and that is a potential misdemeanor that could carry up to three months in jail. that's a serious act. after the incident, as you alluded to, she went straight to the police, to the nearest precinct. we talked to a lot of sources close to this investigation who
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found her extremely credible. she went in in an act that everyone associated with this investigation said made her frightened, but she thought it could expose and stop something important. she recorded this with the police. there was a wire operation. >> so she went this and reported that he had -- this allegation that she made that he had groped her and in response they said will you wear a wire and go back and have further contact with him. >> already he was contacting her again and again. and that is another consistent pattern in these incidents. you know, he is very aggressive in following up with these women according to source after source the and in this case he called her while she was with the police, and they used that as an opportunity to set up this sting. >> okay. so she goes back and she has contact with him, and in the excerpt -- it's a longer tape. you've heard even more of it than what we just played. >> that's right. >> in that piece we just played there he is obviously being very persistent in terms of trying to get her to go into his room with him. he also -- she asks him about
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the previous incident and he appears to admit to it. >> he says i'm used to that, which, you know, for you or i might be a peculiar response to that kind of inquiry. she is point-blank saying why did you touch my breasts. look, he had issued denials of this publicly and this this was ray recording that, you know, sources close to this investigation said he understood had been destroyed. but people involved in this investigation were angry about the fact that this was suppressed and that recording did survive. >> so in some of the other cases of high profile men who have been accused much sexual harassment, assault and rape, one of the main things that comes up once the tore represent of accusers start come forward is statute of limitation. in this specific case we're talking one day after the alleged assault from when this recording of made. the new york police department and the manhattan da's office both put out statements today essentially saying it wasn't our fault that this didn't get prosecuted. what's your assess the of why
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this didn't get prosecuted? >> all i can say is what the source quoted in this story said. and we quote a source to the investigation who said this made me as rngry as anything in my career and i've been on the force tore a long time. these were people telling us they had the evidence. >> so, ronan, in terms of your reporting on this, i don't want you to tell me anything -- i don't want to ask you for sources you don't want to talk about. >> you know a story like this. there's a lot in there that's very sensitive but also it's expensive how many people put their names on this too. the bravery of these women. >> i had heard that there was a race between "the new yorker" and the new york city times in terms of getting this story, that obviously this was a long chase for you. you were working at nbc news when you started working on this. you ended up publishing it with "the new yorker." if you can speak to that, i'd love to hear about that. also we know that jodi canter and megan twohey were working with this at "the new york times." one question i have about this is why now?
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because these allegations go back more than 20 years, why are people willing to talk now? why were women willing to talk to you about these allegations. >> i'll speak to that last point fist. >> okay. >> of these 16 executives and assistants who talked to me, over and over again i heard from them we feel a profound sense of guilt about what we saw and our silence about it for years. >> people inside the company who knew about it, heard about it, witness it had. >> a female employee who said she was asked to serve as she used the term a honey pot in meetings. she would be present to reassure some of these young women and then would be asked to leave the hotel room or other room. look, i talked to multiple, multiple employees who said we saw fear in these women's eyes and that is something that haunted a lot of these people. none of them quilt as a result. i think that haunltd them too and even still to this day some of them spoke -- this is a tough issue. >> what happens, though, when you've haunted by something for
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ten, 12, 15, 17 years and then all of a sudden it's too much -- >> they also spoke to a changing culture that after the revelations about ailes and cosby and these poushful men they felt the grip on power of these individuals is slipping and they felt there was an atmosphere in which they could finally speak. that's not all noble. they also said harvey weinstein specifically is less powerful now. he is no longer in the words of one source the fourth most powerful person in hollywood. he is now the 200th most powerful person. >> that's fascinating. >> so there was a pragmatic change too. these stories come out when they are less powerful. >> i have a couple more questions for you about this. i was not supposed to keep you for a second segment, but i'm overruling everybody. do you mind staying. >> absolutely.
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joining us once again is ronan farrow, contributor for new yorker magazine who broke this explosive story today about further revelations concerning hollywood mega producer harvey weinstein. first broken wide open late last week by "the new york times." ronan farrow is reporting today at the new yorker adds very serious allegations to what have been first reported by "the new york times," including several allegations of rape. mr. weinstein, he of course and denying the charges. thanks for sticking with us. >> good to be here. >> a couple of just follow-up questions for you on this.
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in part i wanted to ask you because of your own family background, because of your own history, i feel like you have some unique insight into kind of the show business part of this and that's part of it i have to say i don't understand at all. you were just talking about the fact that maybe one of the reasons this came out now, that people were willing to basically go public with what they've long known about harvey weinstein is he's not as powerful in the business as he used to be. how important is that to understanding what's going to happen next in hollywood? i mean, this is a hollywood disgrace that this was a huge open secret for decades and everybody tacitly allowed it and excused it. what do you think is going to happen within the industry? >> you know, i actually don't think that this is a hollywood phenomenon. you know, i don't think this is about harvey weinstein ultimately. i don't think this is about the film industry ultimately. the abuse of power is a phenomenon we see over and over again in industry after
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industry. this is about a culture of silence around poufrful men. it is about a machine described to me by source after source in this story designed to silence accusations like this. i'm talking about powerful pr teams designed to smear people publicly. i'm talking about a legal team that uses aggressive none disclosure agreements and settlements which you talked about in your a block. this is a fuse lad of attacks that women face when they speak out and that's why this is so brave what they've done here. >> did your sources, the women who spoke to you run up against that specifically in your reporting for -- >> these sources absolutely ran up against that. >> the women who made these allegations faced that while you were reporting on it. >> yes indeed. and there is a woman quoted in this story who went on camera on the record and i describe what she said to me which was the legal angle is coming after me and she withdrew from the piece and cher story not there but this is -- >> she detailed her allegation about weinstein, was going to be
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on the record and withdrew hr permission -- >> on camera on the record? january and withdrew. >> because she says the legal angle is coming after me. does that mean the weinstein companies, personally. >> i will tell you that source after source said they were receiving harassing calls. some of those are also discussed in this story. these women were afraid and based on my reporting, legitimately afraid. >> afraid of weinstein personally or afraid of other people in his company? afraid of people hired by the company? >> poet api personal level they talk about the physical fear, borne part of trauma, you know, after an incident like these alleged rapes. you know, the actress asa or general toe who told a very difficult story of rape said she forever more was in his that will in a sense, that he had this power to make her feel weak and small. and then also, yes, fear of the machine, fear for their careers and their lively hoods. these are women who at times were very enmeshed with mr. weinstein and his business. >> including not just threats and fear at the time that it happened in terms of
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intimidation, but threats now while they're coming out. >> ongoing and i talk in the story about sources receiving multiple sources trying to determine who talked to me, when they talked to me, trying to shut them up. >> you just said that one of these women spoke on camera back in january. why did you end up reporting this story for "the new yorker" and not nbc news. >> you would have to ask nbc and nbc executives about the details. i'm not going to comment on any news organization's story that they did or didn't run. i will say that over many years, many news organizations have circled this story and faced a great deal of pressure in doing so. and there are now reports emerging publicly about the kinds of pressure that news organizations face in this. and that is real. in the course of this reporting i was threatened with a lawsuit personally by mr. weinstein and, you know, we've already seen that the times has been publicly thet end with a suit. i don't want to describe any suits leveled at other organizations that i work with, but, you know, certainly this is a considerable amount of pressure that outlets get as
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well. >> nbc says that, you know, you didn't -- that the story wasn't publicable, that it wasn't ready to go by the time that you brought it to them, but obviously it was ready to go by the time you got it to the new yorker. >> i walked into the door at the new yorker with an sploes civil reportable piece that should have been public earlier and immediately obviously the new yorker recognized that and it is not accurate to say that it was not reportable. in fact, there were multiple determination that it was reportable at nbc. >> ronan farrow. i know parts of this story in terms of the reporting side of it is not the easiest stuff to talk about and i know you don't want to make yourself the center of this story. >> a small note. that is important. these women came forward with incredibly brave allegations. they tore their guts out talking about this and retrauma iced themselves because they believed they could protect other women going forward. this should not be about me, important work but ultimately we are there in service of women doing something really tough,
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and i hope people hear their voices and focus on that. >> ronan farrow, thank you my friend. it's nice to see you. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. magic is pretty amazing. it can transform a frog into a prince. and sadness into happily ever after. but it can't transform your business. for that, you need dell technologies. 7 technology leaders now working together under one name. we're transforming jet engines into turbo-powered safety inspectors.
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the really interesting news, though, is who they got the subpoena from. congressman devin nunes, chairs the house intelligence committee. you might remember that he supposedly stepped down from his role overseeing that committee's russia investigation several months ago. but now he personally, alone, has issued subpoenas in the investigation to fusion gps. this news was first reported by cnn tonight. it was subsequently confirmed by nbc news. but although this wasn't totally clear in those initial reports, we can confirm that these subpoenas seeking documents and testimony from fusion gps, these subpoenas were oirnd unilaterally by devin nunes himself with nobody else signature on them and without any even notification to any democrats on the committee that the subpoenas were going out. now, that's weird. congressman nun he is, of course, was amen of the trump transition team. he was an early trump supporter.
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he was forced to step aside from his role supposedly leading the russia investigation. he came under pressure in april because he paid that weird secret nighttime visit to the white house and nen repeated these false claims that the president had been wire-tapped at trump tower by the obama administration. he stepped aside after the house ethics committee launched an investigation into whether or not he disclosed classified information when he was pulling off that weird white house stunt. dech nun he is, though, while he says he stepped aside from the investigation, appears to have defined stepping aside in a way that doesn't necessarily resonate with anybody else understanding of that definition. in may it was reported that he was continuing to review intelligence on the russia investigation. that same month he unilaterally subpoenaed intelligence agencies in an apparently fruitless effort to turn the russia investigation into an obama
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administration scandal. in august again without warning democrats on the committee sent subpoenas to the justice department and the fbi looking for any documents that they had related to the trump russia dossier, threatening those agencies if they didn't comply with his one man subpoenas the as of tonight we know the justice department still hasn't complied with that request from devon nun he is. but now tonight we learn that he once again is throwing out subpoenas on his own, personally. democrats on the house intelligence committee are learning about these subpoenas by reading about them in news reports. not only that we can report exclusively tonight according to a source familiar with the matter that these subpoenas were issued just one day after the staffers on the house intelligence committee, democratic staffers and republican staffers, met with the legal counsel for fusion gps to discuss fusion voluntarily cooperating with the committee's investigation. we're told that that meeting between fusion and the committee staffers, that constructive meeti meeting was held on tuesday last
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week. then despite that constructive meeting about cooperating, devon nun he is sent out his subpoenas to fusion the very next day on wednesday. that's despite what a democratic source on the committee called a good faith engagement by the witnesses on potential terms for voluntary cooperation. these subpoenas also come after the fusion gps cofounder spent ten hours voluntarily testifying before the senate judiciary committee this summer. following tonight's reporting about these latest subpoenas, member of the house intelligence committee met for a previously scheduled meeting. i would be very interested to know how that went down, and i might have a way to tell you next. mine's way better.
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aaaaaaw look at that dog! katy perry: with music videos and behind the scenes footage, xfinity lets you witness all things me. there is the robert mueller special counsel investigation into the russian attack on our election and whether the trump campaign colluded in it. then there is the senate intelligence committee investigation into that. then there is the senate judiciary committee investigation into that. then there is the house intelligence committee investigation into that. but then on top of all those things, there is another one. there is a member of the trump transition team, a republican trump loyalist congressman who we all thought was recused from the real investigation. but he is now issuing his own subpoenas on this matter. we have confirmed tonight that congressman devin nunes of california has subpoenaed fusion gps, the research organization
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that commissioned the trump russia dossier from former british spy christopher steele. devin nunes has sent them his own subpoena. we're not sure why. but i'm also not sure how he can do that if he is just the one dude. joining us now is congressman eric swalwell who sits on the house intelligence committee. congressman swalwell, thank you for being here. i appreciate your time. >> good evening, rachel. thanks for having me back. >> do you appreciate my confusion about how congressman nunes who i thought was recused from this matter is himself issuing his own subpoenas in the name of your committee when he supposedly stepped aside from your investigation. >> just a couple of weeks ago he tried to subpoena jeff sessions. so it was a recused chairman subpoenaing a yes rest cuesed attorney general on the issue of russia. today when we met talking to some of my other colleagues, we're not surprised anymore. and actually, there is a pattern here that as we make progress or the press makes progress on this
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story, that's hen this nonsense shows itself. but it's the act that you would expect from donald trump's legal team. not from an independent investigation. but we're determined. we are, you know, continuing to make progress. and i would just say, rachel, if he had the interest in what was behind the dossier, not the progress or the process that lead to the dossier, we could find out a lot more. because there is a lot of people mentioned in the dossier who should be subpoenaed, like donald jr. or michael cohen or jared kushner or carter page. those are the individuals who should be hauled in under subpoena. >> you described -- you use the word nonsense here to talk about the actions by chairman nunes. i have to ask if it's safe for the targets of the subpoenas to ignore them. we know that the justice department subpoena that you mentioned there that he sent out was basically ignored by the
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justice department. we know that some of the other agencies and people who he tried to subpoena have not respondsed to him. these binding documents? should the targets of these subpoenas feel that they are legally required to respond? >> they should. but it's a bad precedent that we're setting up that they don't take the investigation seriously. because they don't see a serious lead investigator in our chairman. and so that pose as real problem. i also should mention, rachel, roger stone, after we interviewed him in a public press conference told the public that he had refused to answer the key question about his involvement in the russian hacking, which is who he was talking to with wikileaks, and whether it was julian assange or not. he said he wasn't there under subpoena. he was there voluntarily so, he didn't have to answer that. we're letting witnesses set their own terms, and we haven't shown a willingness to subpoena roger stone and ask us to give us that information. we're going in the wrong direction. and we are at risk of having a
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flat earth report come out of the house intelligence committee as to what happened with russia. >> a flat earth report. those are striking terms. i know that you attended a house intelligence meeting this evening. can i ask about how things are on the committee if you're trying to sound the alarm here that the ultimate report from this investigation on your committee is something that we out to worry about in terms of its integrity? >> well, we are all inspired by ranking member adam schiff who is leading a serious investigation and who is dogged in leading us into finding out what happened. but it is frustrating that you see unity on the senate side with senators burr and warner, and then disunity on our side. and if we have a report on the senate side with one set of findings and a bizarro report out of the house republican side, i think that helps the russians, you know, perpetuate their narrative that this was
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just something that was made up. it's not true. and actually, in that chaos, they will thrive and be able to come at us again. >> congressman eric swalwell of california, house intelligence committee. thanks for helping us understand this. we're getting into some weird times with this story. >> my pleasure. >> thanks for helping us make sense of it. all right. we'll be right back. stay with us. we come into this world needing others. ♪ then we are told it's braver to go it alone. ♪
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before we go tonight, i want to go back for a moment to a story that we talked about at the top of the show with ronan farrow, who reported for the "new yorker" magazine. a follow-up piece on what "the new york times" wrote last week about mega producer harvey weinstein. this is a story that obviously has been breaking over the course of the last several days. the allegations that ronan was able to report both in terms of the new york police department sting, that audio that he was able to obtain. also in terms of the rape allegations that he reported out for that piece make the story that started in "the new york times" just that much more
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serious. i want to reiterate that we're going have jody kantor here, the lead reporter for "the new york times" on the story tomorrow night. i expect when this could be reported out versus when it was going to continue to be an open secret that people knew about but didn't discuss. i just want to say we're going to have more on that tomorrow. thanks for being with us tonight. we'll you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. another extraordinary and moving hour of television. i want to update you on the weinstein company during your hour, issued a statement, and this is from the remaining board members, a bunch of them have quit. but there is a group left. and they said these alleged actions are antithetical to human decency. these allegations come as an utter surprise to the board. any suggestion that the board had knowledge of this conduct is false. and boy, rachel, the reporting in "the new york times" and


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