tv MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle MSNBC October 11, 2017 8:00am-9:00am PDT
hollywood's worst kept secret. >> another bombshell for harvey wienstein. his wife announced she's leaving her husband. >> actresses gwyneth paltrow and angelina jolie both revealed that weinstein allegedly harassed them. >> mira sorvino saying they were assaulted. another woman saying he was raped. and after a model reported weinstein to police. >> why yesterday you touch my breast? >> please, i'm sorry. just come on. i'm used to that. >> weinstein was not criminalally charged. now there's new exclusive reporting from nbc news. >> the president told his national security team he wanted to expand the u.s. nuclear arsenal to what amounted to nearly ten times its current level. >> they show him this slide that shows u.s. and russian nuclear arsenals from the 1950s until
now and it goes like this for the u.s. and the president looks at it and said, well, you know, i want that. >> shortly after, rex tillerson called the president a moron. raised immediate questions about his understanding of america's nuclear posture and left some security officials rattled. >> it would not only break with decades of u.s. nuclear doctrine, but it would also violate a number of international treaties. >> our house is gone, guys! oh, my god! our house is gone! it's gone! >> this is now one of the most destructive wildfires in northern california's history. thousands of structures obliterated. neighborhoods wiped off the map. >> neighborhood looks just like this. apocket liptic. >> that is stunning. our top story this hour, allegations of sexual misconduct are piling up against movie mogul harvey wienstein as his
wife says she's leaving him. fashion designer georgina chapman said, quote, my heart breaks for all of the women who have suffered tremendous pain because of these unforgivable actions. i have chosen to leave my husband. caring for my young children is my first priority and i ask the media for privacy at this time. two hollywood a-listers are revealing their alleged experiences with the movie mogul. stephanie gosk has the latest. >> reporter: late tuesday, another bombshell for harvey weinste weinstein. his wife announced she's leaving her husband. telling people magazine, my heart breaks for all the women who have suffered tremendous pain because of these unforgivable actions. magazine also reporting there are plans for weinstein to enter a treatment facility. it comes as the allegations against the movie mogul are only growing. two of hollywood's biggest stars now say weinstein sexually harassed them too. oscar winner angelina jolie told
"the new york times," i had a bad experience with harvey weinstein in my youth and chose never to work with him again and warned others when they did. gwyneth paltrow says she was just 22 when weinstein put his hands on her and suggested they go to the bedroom for massages. telling "the times," i was a kid. i was signed up. i was petrified. paltrow told her then-boyfriend brad pitt who confirmed to "the new york times" he confronted weinstein and said never to touch paltrow again. paltrow said she was expected to keep it secret five years later won an oscar for "shakespeare in love." >> i would like to thank harvey weinstein and everybody at mir max films. >> reporter: in an explosive report, meara sorvino and arquette accused him of sexual assault. >> this is not the way men can act towards women anymore in this country. it is just not. >> reporter: three other women
say they were raped. the new yorker also first to release a recording from a sting operation in 2015 after ma mode reported weinstein to police. >> why yesterday you touch my breast? >> please, i'm sorry. just come on, i'm used to that. >> you're used to that? >> yes. come in. >> i'm not used to that. >> reporter: the new york district attorney declined to press charges against weinstein. writing in a statement overnight, these alleged actions are antithetical to human decency. these allegations come as an utter surprise to the board. any suggestion the board has knowledge of this is false. weinstein's spokesperson says, any allegations of non-consensual sex are denied by mr. weinstein adding there were never any acts of retaliation for refusing his advances. on tuesday yet another woman came forward with attorney gloria allred. >> he led me to his bathroom
pleading that i just watch his masturbate. my heart was racing and i was scared. >> reporter: the string of new allegations triggered more condemnation from hollywood a-listers. among them matt damon, viola davis, leonardo dicaprio, and julianne moore. >> these women were young. it's difficult to be 23 and feel like you have any personal power. >> reporter: president obama who received political donations from weinstein said any man who demeans and degrades women in such fashion needs to be condemned and held accountable regardless of wealth or status. >> i can't believe what we just watched. that was nbc's stephanie gosk reporting. i want to bring in nbc's anne thompson who has also been reporting on this. amy zeiering and j. newton smal.
anne b i want to start with you. we heard stephanie report that the weinstein company board said they were shocked and dismayed. the board should know the company and its founder well. but the more we're learning in the last couple of days shows like 30 rock and the oscars even made jokes about it. i want to share a bit. >> oh, please. i'm not afraid of anyone in show business. i turned down intercourse with harvey weinstein on no less than three occasions. >> i know how former lovers can have a hold on you after they're gone. in some ways i'm still pinned under a passed out harvey weinstein and it's thanksgiving. >> you no longer have to pretend to be attracted to harvey weinstein. >> how on earth can the board claim they knew nothing? >> i think what's really interesting about that statement, stephanie, is you see the board members of which there are now i think four or five say
thap knew nothing. they don't say the company knew nothing. and that's the big difference. >> they are the company. >> no, no, no. they oversee the company. the question is did the company write the checks? who wrote the checks for the eight women who were supposedly paid? >> and the board would have no idea that the company wrote those checks? >> it is one of the problems facing fox news corporation with roger ailes. what did the board of 21st century fox know? did his behavior put that company at risk? the difference is the weinstein company is a private company. and so what did they have to disclose? and the board members, you have to remember, three of the -- four of the board members have resigned since the scandal broke. clearly there's a split there and great anger there over what the board knew. i mean, i think there's a difference and certainly there's a legal difference between the generic rumor when as compared to you're getting hit with a
lawsuit. or you've signed -- you've forced someone to sign a nondisclosure agreement. >> but that actually speaks to the difference between committing a crime and fostering an abusive culture. a culture that degrades women time and again. amy, i want to talk about the hunting ground. it was released by a subsidiary of the weinstein company in 2015. and you said you first heard about allegations against weinstein after your film came out. and it made you consider making a film on predatory behavior. what did you learn about harvey at the time? and what stopped you from making that film? >> well, we didn't stop making that film. it made us start looking into a film about predatory behavior in hollywood. we've made two films in the past. we made "the invisible war" which broke the story of rape in our military. when we showed that on campuses, students came up to us and said this happened to me here. then we made "the hunting ground." then going around with that when we did the oscar campaign,
actresses and actors and people in the industry started coming up to me and telling me their stories of abuse. that led us to start looking into developing a film about what's going on in hollywood. >> wasn't it hard for you then to accept that weinstein was distributing your film if you heard these stories about harvey himself? >> yeah. it was very hard. and that's actually why what our response was was to start investigating it ourselves and consider making a film in that arena. >> let's talk about that. because some of these allegations go back decades. women are coming forward now. is one of the issues to anne's point, this was a private company. harvey weinstein was one of the most powerful men -- is one of the most powerful men in hollywood. when someone treats you like this and you are an aspiring actress, what are you going to do? is that why these women stayed silent for so long? >> absolutely. and we see that not only in hollywood. we see that in the military. we see that on college campuses.
there's often a disparity of power. it's a premeditated act and they know how to pick their targets. that's why we call it "the hunting ground." and so they pick prey that is more vulnerable and less likely to speak up and is -- a and that's why we see this conspiracy of silence. it makes perfect sense. it's very, very scary. it's a very violating, traumatic act. it's something you don't like to talk about in public. and if it's someone more powerful than you, it's hard to come forward. we really owe these women a debt of gratitude. it's amazing they're all coming out and speaking. it's wonderful there's a chorus. so it's a great water shed moment in our culture. but the question is why do we need a chorus? when can it be just one woman coming forward is enough and we'll start believing women and survivors? >> jay, can you weigh in on this? because what's so upsetting is some women who are victimized here could have said, well, i guess it wasn't that bad and i'm really -- i believe in myself.
i want a successful career as an actress. how do we save those women who are put in that situation? the next generation? >> stephanie, absolutely you need to have more senior women in hollywood. i think that's certainly the solution. so when something like this happens, there are other producers you can go to to say i'm not going to work with harvey wienstein. i'm going to work with a woman producer who is equally as powerful and can help build your career without potentially sexually harassing you. that's what you see in hollywood right now. we're reaching this tipping point. somewhere between 20% or 30% in any institution whether it's a corporate board or an appellate court, women reach this tipping point and they begin to have their voices heard a lot more. hollywood has been reaching this tipping point for the last couple of years. whether it's patricia arquette standing up at the oscars demanding equal pay. jennifer lawrence saying she wanted equal pay. women with harvey weinstein
saying they're not going to be sexually harassed anymore. when they say we're senior enough, we're not going to fear retribution anymore and we're going to stand up and say this is not acceptable and we're going to change the culture of this society. >> do you think we'll get more women coming forward? >> i do. i think that -- i think we've already seen that effect. i mean, it probably a week ago if you had asked angelina jolie and gwyneth paltrow about weinste weinstein, you probably would have been shut down. this man has had a long career in hollywood. since 1979. and so it's not just i think we're up to plus-20 women. this behavior if it is believed has been going on for a long, long time unchecked. >> that being the case, amy, the fact that this has gone on for decades and decades and then "the new york times" comes out with their piece in the new yorker and weinstein says i'll go into therapy. is it not too little too late?
this man won't get a second act. >> why isn't he paying for therapy to all the victims? if he's really contrite, pay for their therapy. i'm not terribly concerned about his mental health. i'm concerned about the damage he's done tho these women over the decades. >> well, there you have it. >> and he doesn't need therapy about sex. this is not about sex. this is about power. that's the issue. >> that is the best point. we're going to say that one more time. this is not about sex. it is 100% about this man exalting power over these young women. >> and it's a crime like any other. i think when we introduce sex into the situation, people get confused. it must have been he said/she said, it must have been consensual. no. yet no one says to someone who says there was a robbery, did you mean to give him the television set? what were you wearing the television set disappeared from your apartment? >> can we talk about that gray area?
that some victims and our culture don't see it as that. donna karan's immediate response was how do women present themselves? what are they, quote, asking for? the fact people are still saying that in 2017, there are victims who say a man like harvey weinstein corners me and masturbates in a corner, technically it's not a crime. is the technical issue, is the way that society views things one of the problems here? >> yes, absolutely. it's a rape myth that these things are just he said/she said. it is a premeditated crime. you see that over and over again. if you look at everything all these women said, he's got a clear motive. he brings them to his hotel room. that's not just a miscommunication. these are predators. these are savvy, calculating predators. that's what we have to understand. >> if i could just add to that.
it's also what we expect women out of hollywood. it is the roles that we pigeon hole them into. for example, 63% of women, their screen time is talking about relationships where more than half of men's screen time is talking about their work. and what they're doing. and so if we consistently just objectify women and talk about who they're dating and not what they're working on and look at them only for their bodies and not brains, is it any wonder that people actually act on that sexual objectification. we have to change the culture and begin to say we're respecting women for their brains, for their roles in society that don't have anything to do with sex. that really means changing the culture overall in hollywood. >> that means we'll continue having this conversation over and over and advancing it. ladies, thank you so much. a thank you, ladies so much. stick around, everyone. nbc news has other exclusive
reporting on why tillerson called president trump a moron. here's a hint and it's terrifying. it has to do with america's nuclear arsenal. president trump said, hey, why don't we increase it tenfold. stick around. we'll dig into that and a whole lot more. you are watching "velshi & rhule" live here on msnbc.
secretary of state tillerson to call president trump a moron. nbc news has learned from three -- one, two, three officials at a tense pentagon meeting back in july that the president called for a dramatic nearly tenfold increase in the nation's nuclear arsenal. it was after that meeting when secretary of state tillerson was heard calling the president a, quote, moron. the president responded just over an hour ago tweeting, fake nbc news made up a story that i wanted a tenfold increase in our u.s. nuclear arsenal. pure fiction. made up to demean. well, since his candidacy, mr. trump has been inconsistent with regard to his stance on nuclear weapons. take a look. >> nuclear should be off the table but is there a time it could be used? possibly. japan has a problem with that. they have a big problem with that. maybe they would be better off if they defend themselves from
north korea? >> with nukes? >> yes. i don't want to rule out anything. we are not keeping up with other countries. i would like everybody else to end it, get rid of it. but i would not do for a strike. >> mika asked the president-elect when we had the opportunity what his position was on trying to clarify the tweet yesterday and the president told you what? >> let it be an arm's race. we will outmatch them at every pass. >> let it be an arm's race. the president's apparent fascination with nuclear weapons dates back decades. he told "the washington post" in 1984, quote, it would take an hour and a half to learn everything there is to learn about missiles. i think i know most of it anyway. explaining his uncle dr. john trump was a professor at m.i.t. joining me live now, nbc news
national political reporting carol lee who has been behind this exclusive reporting from the beginning. and with us from paris, nuclear weapons expert john wolfstall. carol, let's walk through this. because president trump was asked about the nuclear triad back at the republican debate back in 2015. he didn't seem to know much about it. he was asked by cnn months later, still didn't know much about it. and then there he was with some of his most senior officials in the national security group and he found it normal and appropriate to say let's jack it up tenfold. our nuclear arsenal. >> right. let's -- let me set the scene for you a little bit here. so the president is seated around the table in a secure room at the pentagon known as the tank with the senior most military advisers in the u.s. government. and they're walking him around
the globe essentially saying here's all of our military assets in each region. here's the number of troops and here's, you know, what equipment we have. and they did a presentation on the nuclear arsenal. during that presentation showed him this slide that showed not just the u.s. nuclear arsenal since 1950s until now, but also russia. and the president according to people we spoke to who were in the room said why don't we have as many as that? and wanted to know why the current nuclear -- u.s. nuclear arsenal wasn't essentially almost ten times the size it is now. and he said, i want more. i want that. and the advisers, you know, were taken aback by that and explained to him that that's not necessarily feasible because the u.s. has treaty obligations. there are budgetary restraints. and weaponry has changed so much since the late 1960s when the number of u.s. nuclear weapons peaked that you don't
necessarily need that big of an arsenal. you have conventional capabilities and the nuclear arsenal is designed to just simply be a deterrent. so that was just one of several exchanges in which the people inside the room said they were just having to explain to the president some of the basics of how the military functions across the globe. >> it is stunning and it sort of gives credence to bob corker's statements when he was talking about rex tillerson, mattis, mcmaster separating us from the chaos in the white house. the president would not understand this. can you speak about the meeting the day before where he was talking about our approach in afghanistan as well? >> yeah. that's a great point you're making bringing up that meeting. so the meeting we're talking about at the pentagon was july 20th. the day before the president chaired a meeting at the white house situation room that was focused on a new afghanistan strategy. it was a larger group of people.
and his advisers went into it thinking they would finally get him to sign off on a new strategy after months of delays. instead, they found a frustrated president. he was musing about firing the commander of the afghanistan war who had been waiting for a strategy to come down from the president. and also compared this process to the renovation of a new york restaurant. and that meeting ended inconclusively and the president ultimately did not sign off on a strategy there. and his team was stunned by that. so you had that meeting on the 19th. then the one we're reporting on today on the 20th. all of that was against this backdrop where, you know, the white house was in churning. it was in turmoil. the president was at odds with his attorney general. he was bringing in anthony scaramucci who had arguably the shorting tenure of any white house communications director ever. his press secretary was fired. his chief of staff. there was always this turnover. >> i believe what carol is
referencing is the well oiled machine. the white house where president trump as he has said over and time again he only hires the best. john, i want to ask you, why couldn't we expand our nuclear arsenal if the president wanted to? some might say, well, the president is about defending this country. sounds like a good idea. why isn't it one? >> well, it's a horrible idea for a number of reasons. the primary one is the united states already has more nuclear weapons than the joint chiefs of staff think we need under president obama. they agree we would go lower if we talk about negotiations with russia. we don't need them. when we had 35,000 nuclear weapons at the peak of the cold war, the entire world lived on the cusp of nuclear annihilation at every minute. there are two other reasons we're not going to be able to do this any time soon. nor should we. we have arms control treaties with russia. if we have a treaty that caps their program and allows us to
inspect they stay below the number, they get to do the same. we need an arms race where we risk war every day or we have arms control treaties that limits the numbers we could have. and these things are hugely expensive. we're already -- >> continue. >> i was going to say we're going to spend a trillion dollars over the next 30 years to rebuild all of the nuclear weapons we currently have. to replace them one for one. if we were going to increase the arsenal tenfold, we would be looking at the order of $30 trillion to $40 trillion over the next 30 years we don't have. >> i want to stay on that on modernizing or fixing our current arsenal. because president trump on august 9th tweeted this. my first order as president was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. it is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before. but i can't find any evidence that that's the case. we know that there's this nuclear posture review that was put in place during the obama administration. but i can't find any evidence supporting the president's
claims that we've upgraded and improved our nuclear arsenal. >> there's a good reason you can't find any evidence. it's because none exists. the president is making this up. all -- >> so the president is -- just so i understand -- the president is lying in that tweet where he says that was his first order of business and since then our arsenal is stronger than ever. that's a flatout lie on the part of the president? >> the president's first executive order did ask the pentagon -- require the pentagon to do a nuclear posture review. that's now been underway for a couple of months because the staff wasn't appointed until late spring. it was originally going to be due this month. it's not coming out until january. he did request a posture review, but nothing in the arsenal has changed since he took office in january. >> all right. john, carol, thank you. president trump if you're watching, here's a fact check. we stand by our story. it is not fake news. but the tweet you put out on
august 9th where you said our nuclear arsenal is far more stronger and powerful than ever before, that is, in fact, fake news. all right. we're going to leave it there. thank you for the great conversation. next, breaking news. more than a dozen wildfires ripping through northern california. at least 17 people were killed and dozens more are missing. we're going to have a live report from napa where conditions are expected to get worse today. they do not have weather on their side. and right now there are red flag warnings in several areas. reading, sacramento, and modesto gusts up to 40 miles per hour are expected along with dry conditions nap is the perfect storm. and further south in santa barbara and santa clarita, wind gusts could reach 45 miles per hour today. that is through saturday. stay with us. you are watching "velshi & rhule" right here on msnbc. [ stirring music playing throughout ]
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20,000 already fleeing the flames. at least 17 people are confirmed dead. more than 2,000 homes and businesses completely destroyed as 17 fires incinerate nearly 115,000 acres from las vegos an northward. that is twice the size of washington, d.c. adding to the horror, cars caught fire as people fled from the worst fires the state has seen in over 25 years. steve patterson is on the ground in napa county. steve, what is the latest where you are? >> reporter: 17 active fires still burning in wine country california. yet people want to know what the damage looks like that's already been wrought. what we can tell you is what we can show you. take a look here. this is a beautiful neighborhood here in the napa valley. you can see this is just one home. it's a wealthy neighborhood. you can tell because the only thing still standing are the gates in front. you take a look inside there,
you see wind swept trees. see that tree? that's because of the wind that was blowing so hard, winds up to 50 miles an hour, that it's almost in stasis like that. toward the back, there's a laundry or dryer. you can see some remnants maybe of a bedroom. then up above the ruins from another home on top. this scene is actually pretty common in this neighborhood. we've seen several homes plot to plot to plot where the entire home is completely burned to the ground. you mentioned those 20,000 people still under mandatory evacuation. many of them are now at road blocks trying to figure out what their homes look like. unfortunately these are the scenes we're seeing here. people now trying to get back in. police not allowing that because as you mentioned earlier, as well, there are still red flag warnings in this area. the winds could pick up, carry fire or embers back into places like this, reignite or spark up fresh fires. and then cause a brand new situation.
and all of this, again, with those fires still burning in sonoma and here in napa. an active situation as firefighters try to battle back. there is a small amount of containment on the atlas fire. that's the one right here in napa. about 3% contained. that's just a fraction of what's happening, though, throughout the rest of this region. >> steve, any word on the cause? >> reporter: at this point, again, it is early. and they are so focused on keeping people safe, making sure people are out of these fire zones, and trying to push the flames back, that they almost -- that they honestly don't have time to worry about the investigation. that's something obviously will happen coinciding with the firefight, but no information about what sparked not only this fire but the other fire burning in the county next door or the county beyond that or the county to the south. the eight counties in total with active fires. so the cause may be multiple
conditions. we just simply don't know at this point, stephanie. >> all right, steve. thank you for your ongoing coverage. that's steve patterson in napa, california. coming up next, harvey weinstein's crash and burn. more going public with accusations against him. we'll break down the legal troubles he could face. and how about his company? how about the board? how about their accountability? stay with us. you are watching "velshi & rhule" right here on msnbc. (gasp) (singsong) budget meeting! sweet.
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welcome back to "velshi & rhule." new fallout for harvey weinstein who is facing several accusations of sexual misconduct from more than a dozen women. just a short time ago the british academy of film and television arts announced it was suspending his membership calling the allegations against him unacceptable. we are also learning more about how some weinstein company employees believe they may have enabled weinstein's alleged actions. ronan farrow who broke the story talked to 16 current and former employees for his explosive article detailing the allegations. take a look. >> they talked about feeling profound guilt in feeling they aided and abetted a pattern of company meetings that they thought were little more than a cover for advances on vulnerable women. >> joining me now danny cevallos and ann bremner.
ann, in ronan's article, one female executive claimed some of weinstein's assistants served as a, quote, honey pot. at first they join the meeting during weinstein and a woman. then he dismissed the employee leaving the woman alone with him. doesn't the company bear any responsibility? maybe when that assistant left the room, maybe he didn't sexually assault those women, maybe he didn't commit rape. but is it not an issue the company should serve some liability for if he said i would like to see your breasts, i would like to massage you, can i masturbate in front of you. those things seem highly inappropriate. >> absolutely. and the fact is, you know, it's the coverup. but there's also aiding and abetting and knowing and covering up. and for 30 years. so will there be liability? absolutely. that's why they're looking at this internal investigation to cover what they've been doing
apparently for decades in terms of enabling and assisting him. it's just incredible. i mean, what's been going on with him for so long. and he's just come out and admitted everything. so the liability is going to be staggering. >> here's what's so sick, danny. what if this predatory behavior isn't technically illegal? then what? >> you bring up a good point. because first we have to assume for the moment any of these potential claimants are within the civil statute of limitations. if we just assume that for now because they may not be, then is there a civil claim? because there is a difference between in a harassment claim where the person is an employee versus a reporting who's coming to talk to him or something like that. but in this case, in california when you talk about the board of directors, california has very protective sexual harassment law. and as long as it is a supervisor who is doing the harassment and there was actual provable harassment, then the
company will be strictly liable. that's a legal term that means automatically liable. >> what if i am an aspiring actress who doesn't have a part in a movie and has a meeting with harvey weinstein because i hope to be the nest star of "shakespeare in love" like gwyneth paltrow was. the board of that company bears no liability for all of these settlements when they're writing check after check after check? the board can say we didn't know? an anne? >> guy ahead, anne. >> i was going to say, and i agree with you. basically the agent is going to be as guilty as principal to pay for that. and the second part is as you say. they knew, they settled. they covered up. they've got responsibility independently from that responsibility for their agent. and he's a principal. he is the company. >> defines an agent at least state law does very broadly more broadly than federal law.
so in this instance, again, assuming that there are not statutes of limitations issues which there may be because unfortunate most claimants find out when it comes to employment lijss, they are so short in which to bring it. assuming under california law, they have such a broad definition of what a supervisor is that he would almost surely fall within that category. >> anne, can we talk for a moment about the fear of retaliation? and the kind of industry we're talking about here. hollywood is an industry where a guy like harvey weinstein could change a woman's life. and the weinstein company isn't a publicly traded company. if you were one of these women and you weren't -- i can't believe i'm using this term -- technically raped, but if you were assaulted, treated like a victim by harvey weinstein,
truly what could you do? who would you go to? >> well, i mean, he created people and he destroyed them. he said he'd destroy them. so you can go to law enforcement that happened in new york. it was declined. but you can also go to the company. but guess what. >> who would you go to? he was the company. >> he was the company. >> he was the industry. right? if shows like "30 rock" make jokes about it. if it's an open joke at the oscars and i'm a 23-year-old actress wh actress, who in the world am i going to go to? my agent who would die to have a meeting with harvey? >> it's just astonishing. the fact is he's exposed now and he's run off to rehab and he's apologized and said he also wants a second chance? i mean, fitzgerald said there were no second acts in american life. this guy wants it. he was powerful. he thinks he's still powerful. >> danny, i want to share the audio clip of weinstein from a police sting operationel report
after he groped her in 2012. >> i am very uncomfortable. >> please come in now. and if you want to leave, you -- >> why yesterday you touch my breast? >> oh, please. i'm sorry. come on. i'm used to that. >> you're used to that? >> yes. come in. >> but i'm not used to that. >> i won't do it again. come on, sit here. >> the da did not press charges saying the police didn't get enough to prosecute. is one of the issues if mr. weinstein settles, pays off these women, and they're unwilling to testify against him, does that put the da in a more difficult position? >> a more difficult position, but -- and i see this all the time -- confidentiality agreements can cover a lot of conduct. like writing a letter to the paper or something like that. but when they come head-to-head with a court order or subpoena, they will usually lose. and if you look at the clauses, they will frequently say this
applies to almost everything except a court order and a subpoena. >> anne, what does this do for the broader hollywood community? i think we've lost -- i think we've lost anne. in your opinion, what does this do fto the industry? an industry again that made jokes about this. now we're seeing dozens and dozens of women come out. again, this is an industry where big, powerful men can change women's lives. do you actually think there will be an impact? >> oh, absolutely. here's why. the law simply does not encourage -- when you make a claim as an individual, you are now stepping into the world of witness, and the world surroun you. and the employment action you have to prove to make your case is very difficult. so you have a hard road ahead of you. in social cases like this one, people come out en masse, it can really do what the law simply cannot incentivize.
>> isn't it a cultural issue? for so many of these women, the things that happen to them, they convince themselves aren't complete assault. it wasn't rape so it's not a big enough case for anyone to care. but when it happens over and over and over again, it is toxic to an entire industry. >> right. and now you see when people come forward many of them are already out of time because of statutes of limitations issues. so the only thing maybe the best thing that some of them can hope for is social change. if not legal remedieremedies. >> danny, thank you so much. anne, thank you. and to the ladies who have come forward, you are not out of time. do you know why? because you are saving and you are protecting our children. the next generation of leaders. stand by, everyone. roger goodell has a new message for all the teams in his league. what happens now if players continue to protest during the anthem. you are watching "velshi & rhule."
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our country. >> this happened after eminem slammed the nfl. >> if you're a black athlete, you're trying to use your stature to give those a voice who don't have one. it gives enormous reaction when he attacks the nfl, so we focus on that instead of talking puerto rico or gun reform for nevada while these horrible tragedies would rather cause a twitter storm with the packers. >> there you have it. i want to bring in dave seren, sports editor at the nation and former nfl player jack brewer. jack, i want to start with you. is the nfl sort of backed into a corner here? president trump created this fight. he wants players to continue to take a knee. he sent vice president mike pence to that game this weekend to create this spectacle. that divide they've raised money off of. if you're the nfl and you're
roger goodell and you say, gentlemen, let's stand up to move forward on this, then roger goodell is sending the statement that, i guess we're doing what the president tells us to do. how difficult is this line that goodell has to walk right now? >> very difficult. i was actually proud of mr. goodell for the first time when he stood next to the players. really the entire league rallied around the players after trump made those outlandish comments. i won't even repeat them, i've repeated them several times. this situation is deep. the eminem verse that came out right now is going to stimulate more conversation, and we need to start moving this away from talking about the politics, really crossing things over in regards to what are we focusing on? are we focusing on the issues at hand, or are we focusing on picking out these little items whether or not you're trying to claim nfl players are against the flag or against our nation. we all know that's not the case. at the end of the day, we need
to talk about solutions to these problems, and is that kneeling? probably not. is that having eminem rap? probably not. we need to go to congress, we need to go to capitol hill, we need to lobby, and we need to try to find ways that we can bridge this gap and really focus on our communities, man. our kids are hurting right now in our communities. racial inequalities exist in america, we all know that, but how are we going to fix these problems? that's what we need to be talking about. >> a very well-put point. jack, sen gauis engaging the pr on all of this just a waste? the president is very good at making this not about racial inequality, making it about are you a patriot or not, which was never the reason any of these players were taking a knee to begin with. but if you engage with the president, he is certainly able to turn the conversation. >> well, it's because he's a toxic narcissist so he wants the
discussion to be about him. i thought eminem broke down beautifully this idea of divide, distract and deflect and eventually demonize and destroy, which is what he said going after these nfl players. these players get death threats every time donald trump takes to twitter, and he doesn't take into account that he's hurting the families of these players. after donald trump sent out what we have to call a lie on twitter about his approach to this issue, what he's doing is putting roger goodell in the situation where he has to figure out a way to balance the fact that there are owners who love the fact that donald trump and mike pence were cracking down on these players precisely because they gave millions of dollars to donald trump, and this was the return on their investment, to keep their players in line and not mess with their bottom line profits, audience, ratings and all the rest of it.
now roger goodell has to walk this walk on this line not because of donald trump and not nfl owners. because of donald trump, you now have owners coming out, like gerald mccoy of the tampa bay bucs who say, no, this is about the question of my dignity whether i stand or not. goodell just moments just before we got on the air, there will be an uproar if it is put in writing that players have to stand for the anthem, which, i might add, is unconstitutional and a violation of their first amendment rights and against their collective bargaining agreement. >> then this argument certainly is not going away any time soon. gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today, dave zeran and jack brewer. in light of confederate monuments, i want to introduce you to my favorite part of this
pr program, monumental americans. at 15 years old, she was one of the little rock nine, the african-american students who attempted to desegregate little rock's central high school. efram was born in 1941 when schools were forced to desegregate. in 1957, she was the first to arrive at school and she arrived alone. up to 400 people surrounded her and the armed national guard prevented her from entering. eventually she graduated by taking correspondence and night courses. she went on to earn a b.a. in history. in 1999, president bill clinton gave the congressional gold medal to eckford. she is now 76 years old. we talk too much about people whose monuments should be taken down and not enough about the
great americans who deserve to be honored. please, tweet us a at #velshiandruhle. my colleague ali velshi will be back tomorrow. right now i turn you to andrea mitchell for "andrea mitchell reports." an nbc exclusive on what happened just before the secretary of state called president trump a moron. top sorturces revealing that donald trump asked his team for a tenfold increase in the united states arsenal, which would go back to treatys involving ronald reagan and the cold war. >> the pentagon, nothing like it. the job they do, absolutely incredible. >> we'll have the president's reaction to our story, coming up. stars aligned. some of the biggest actors in