tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 12, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
to stop the next killer getting his, whether it's a school room, a movie theater, a country music concert or one of their fellow politicians. guns don't scare politicians, only the gun lobby does. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> we will not rest until that job is done. >> three weeks into the dissals tear in puerto rico, why is the president now threatening to pull federal support? >> we will be there all the time to help puerto rico recover. plus -- >> where's john kelly? stand up, john. >> a "unraveling president" sends his chief of staff to go after the media. >> one of his frustrations is you. maybe develop in better sources. then -- >> mr. president, you need to sign it. >> understanding the effects of the president's executive order to undermine obamacare. and facebook meets the press. >> does facebook owe the american people an apology?
>> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. days after a senior republican senator referred to the white house as adult day care, the man that many believe is in charge of supervising the president, chief of staff john kelly, was sent out before the press to shoot down reports that the president's tantrums are causing big problems. the day began as it often does with a presidential outburst on twitter. this one aimed at the struggling people of puerto rico. who three weeks after hurricane maria are still suffering through an acute deadly crisis, many lacking access to safe water and food, and urgent medical care. we'll have the latest from the island coming up later this hour. today the president appeared to blame puerto rico for its current situation, threatening to cut off federal recovery efforts. i quote him here. electric and all infrastructure were disaster before hurricanes. congress to decide how much to spend. we cannot keep fema, the
military, and the first respond hoarse have been amazing under the most difficult circumstances in pr forever." an agency spokesperson tweeting, fema will be with puerto rico, u.s. virgin islands, every state and territory impacted by disaster every day, supporting throughout their response and recovery. asked about trump's tweets the chief of staff put a kinder, genter spin on the president's core message. >> does president trump believe that the people of puerto rico are american citizens? >> yes. >> -- who deserve the same access to federal aid as people who live in texas and florida? >> yes. >> what is his tweet about, then? >> which tweet? >> the tweet where he says we can't be in puerto rico forever. >> i think he said the u.s. military and fema can't be in there forever, right? >> he did, first responders -- >> first responders. this country, our country, will stand with those american citizens in puerto rico until the job is done. but the tweet about fema and d.o.d., read military, is exactly accurate. they're not going to be there
forever. and the whole point is to start to work yourself out of a job and transition to the rebuilding process. >> kelly went on to deny a series of reports suggesting his efforts to contain the president, as senator bob corker put it, are cut putting kelly's own job in jeopardy. according to the "l.a. times" he and the president have engaged in shouting matches. "vanity fair" reported kelly is miserable in his job, remaining out of a sense of duty to keep trump from making some sort of disastrous decision. none of that is true, kelly said. >> although i read it all the time, pretty consistently, i'm not quitting today. i don't believe, and i just talked to the president, i don't think i'm being fired today. and i am not so frustrated in this job that i'm thinking of leaving. i will tell you this is the hardest job i've ever had. this is, in my view, the most
important job i ever had. >> the chief of staff adopted the president's latest attacks on the press directed specifically at nbc news over a couple of damaging report in the last week, first that the secretary of state rex tillerson openly disparaged the president, referring to him as a "moron." and then that the president wanted a ten-fold increase in the u.s. nuclear arsenal. the president reacted with what was even, for him, a fairly astonishing assault on the core concept of the first amendment. threatening to revoke the network's broadcast license, which doesn't exist by the way, and shut down unwelcome coverage. today his own chief of staff took his own swipe at the press. >> my only frustration, with all due respect to everyone in the room, is when i come to work in the morning and read about things i allegedly said or things that mr. trump allegedly said or people who are going to be fired or whatever. and it's just not true. it is astounding to me how much is misreport the.
i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are operating off of contacts, leaks, whatever you call them. but i would just offer to you the advice, i'd say -- you know, maybe develop some better sources. >> amid looming confrontations with north korea and iran and growing concerns about whether the president's aides can restrain him from lashing out, kelly insisted the president doesn't need babysitting. >> i was not sent in or i was not brought to this job to control anything but the flow of information to our president so that he could make the best decisions. i have found that mr. trump, from the day i met him, does not -- is a decisive guy, he's a very thoughtful man i should say. again, i was not sent in or brought in to control him. and you should not measure my effectiveness as a chief of staff by what you think i should be doing. >> political analyst who covers
the white house for "usa today" was at the briefing. what did you make of that today, heidi? >> we has had a brutal cycle, he being the president, and john kelly. if you remember, when kelly came in the headline was that all that's leaks were going to go away, he would instill discipline in this white house. yet you have all these stories coming out about shouting matches, about kelly possibly even leaving. and so just like they did when nbc's story came out about rex tillerson, immediately he's pushed out to talk to the press and to shoot it all down. and to deny it. and he can do that. he can deny it. because these sources are background. i will tell you, and you know this already, that there's no way we would get this reporting unless these sources were speaking on background. because they would be fired for talking like this. it doesn't make that information untrue. in fact, it's-highly unlikely that the information is untrue. and i guess it's good at least that kelly said, i give you the
benefit of the doubt that you have sources. instead of like his boss who just called it all fake. >> his boss, the president of the united states, the theory he says is it's entirely made up. he accuses of press of totally fabricating this when he's not threatening to shut them down or revoke the licenses of newspapers, which also don't exist. we should note here, kelly is also doing, it strikes me, a similar job to what sean spicer had today on the first -- had to do on the first day of the administration, to come out in the face of a set of circumstances people can see pretty clearly and essentially deny the evident right in front of their face. >> he did. but i would say at least he didn't go so far as to say outright untruths. and he was actually quite charming in his engagement with the press in terms of at least keeping a pleasant demeanor, not coming out there angry and scowling at us, calling us the disgusting media, and essentially threatening the
first amendment. he basically, you know, is i think trying to make a bridge to a certain extent with the media. it's interesting today that i was in this health care executive order announcement with the president and he actually turned around and thanked us all. which i guess is not usual. so i think there is a certain part of this that they're trying to immediately address some of these stories when they come out and put these people out in front of the media. >> but one of the things that kelly says, he called the president very thoughtful. it struck me that there's so many things you could say about the president, many adjectives. even if you wanted to praise the president there's lots of things you could say, canny, great political instincts, incredible way of capturing people's attention. he's not a very thoughtful person by basically the determination of every single person around him who's ever talked about him. >> that's an opinion. and he's welcome to his opinions. and i guess after having dealt with some of the previous individuals who have come out there and actually said outright
untruths, like verifiably untrue things that are not factual, at least he's not going -- >> you're going to say that's in the territory of a characterization, as opposed to just like it was the most-watched inauguration. -heidi, thank you for joining me. congresswoman maxine waters is a democrat from california. congresswoman, there's been a story that kelly is a sort of restraining force, that people should be happy that he's there if they're worried about the president's temperament or worried about the president's current condition, and that it's good to have him there. is that your opinion? >> my opinion is it won't last for long. this president will not get along with him for very long. this president has the kind of disposition that would cause him to confront, argue with, fight with, shout at, those people around him. and they're only going to take
it for so long. if you notice what kelly was saying, he was saying he was not fired today. he was not leaving today. and i don't know if he was qualifying that or not, but i think that was instructive. that even he knows it can't last very much longer. >> at some point, kelly said something about the views of democrats on security and what he called open borders. i wanted to play that for you and get your response to it because he was characterizing the immigration views of folks like yourself and members of your party, take a listen. >> all right. >> i believe that honest men and women can disagree on anything, politically or otherwise. the one thing i draw a little bit of a line to is on the security of the nation. there are certainly people in our country that have the opinion that open borders, near open borders are fine, people should be able to come and go. there are others, myself included, you can bet the
president, but i think the majority of americans feel as though security on the borders is important. >> do you think that's an open -- open borders is an accurate characterization of a large view of folks in washington, for instance, on immigration? >> absolutely not. if he's truly concerned about security he should be concerned about the way the president is goading with the north korea situation. he and kim jong-un are basically talking to each other in ways that corker has said could lead us into third world war. so if he's really concerned about security, he should be concerned about whether or not this president is going to continue the kind of talking and goading that he's doing that would cause this kim jong-un, who we consider to be unstable, to launch a very devastating missile into our country with perhaps a nuclear war ahead. >> there's reporting indicating
that the president, the decision which we're expecting forthcoming tomorrow in which he decertifies the iran bill, that was essentially born of a fit of pique, that the president was angry, he felt cornered, that the experts had come to him and told him, no, they're complying with the deal and he should certify it, "the washington post" reporting he threw a fit, he was furious, really furious, it's clear he felt jammed and that's why the white house security adviser, h.r. mcmaster and others, supported this plan to kick it to congress. what do you make of that? what are the consequences of making policy on something like this in this fashion? >> it's just unseemly that the president of the united states would be making policy on his own. he's been advised by everybody, republicans and democrats, that he should not be undoing the iran deal. we have other nations, six other nations, that are involved with us in this deal. and so for him to have america look as if it wants to undo the
deal, want to decertify them, he basically is saying he knows better than anybody. but of course during the campaign he said he knows more than the generals. he really believes that and it's dangerous. for members of congress to sit back and watch what he's doing and watch the damage that he's doing in this country and to watch him just guide us into a possible war, and not speak up because they're concerned about their re-election, is not responsible. i believe it is time for republicans especially to walk over to the white house and tell him enough is enough. as a matter of fact -- >> what do you mean by that -- >> i think he should be impeached. >> al green was going to introduce a resolution, i was going to ask you if you would vote for impeachment knowing what you know now mr. when you say republicans going over and saying enough is enough what do you mean by that tangibly? >> what i mean is republicans should step up to the plate and
confront the fact that this president appears to be unstable that he appears to be taking us into war, that he has openly obstructed justice in front of our face, and that increasingly we're finding that there's more and more lies about the connection with russia. i believe that there really has been collusion. and i do think that our special counsel mueller is going to connect those dots. but i think there's enough now that we all know and we all see and we all understand that we should be moving on impeachment. >> congresswoman maxine waters, always a pleasure. >> you're welcome, thank you. ben howe, writer for "red state," conservative political blog, and lonny chen, what did you make of kelly's performance today? >> you know, i thought that it was a sincere performance. i think he did fine. i thought the most interesting thing about the exchange was, you know, this is a guy who has commanded large forces of soldiers. this is a guy who's been in war multiple times. he's been shot at no doubt.
and he said the hardest job he's ever had, the hardest job, is being the white house chief of staff. that to me is indicative, i think, of the challenges that face this presidency and this white house. and the fact that kelly's still in there i think is a testament to john kelly. >> ben, the sort of going after the press which has been a kind of constant theme, an exchange where senator ben sass of nebraska rapped the president for his decertification, delicensing. do you think there's broad conservative revulsion at that? or do they generally feel, yeah, these people are our enemies? >> it's been interesting to watch, actually. i think a lot of conservatives in previous administrations, if a president was going to go after the press, one of the first things after their license specifically, i think they would have said, why is the government involved in licensing media anyway? they'd talk free markets and things like that. that's what i would have done. but instead they seem to play by what a lot of them call the new
rules. which is the liberals made the rules, now we're going to play by them. so even though it might conflict with what should be their conservative point of view, they're going to end up taking the position, yeah let's take their license away, we're just following their new rules anyway. >> there is a great story, lonny that to me epitomized part of the problem that's at the core of this presidency, particularly domestic politics. the president's trying to get this tax proposal done, he's been sort of working on that while this sort of awful news cycle has swirled hem with corker comments. this is what bloomberg reported. months after the white house proposed ending a tax break for people in the high-tax states president trump grew angry when he learned the change would hurt some middle-income taxpayers. he keeps finding out what the actual substantive agenda is and keeps getting angry about it. what do you make of that? >> tax reform is complicated and it turns out health care is complicate toot. all of these issues have multiple dimensions. there's a reason why we haven't done a big tax reform since 1986.
and it's going to be challenging in any situation. when the white house has had to answer this question about the impact of their tax plan on middle income taxpayers, they've had to say, we can't guarantee that every middle income taxpayer is going to get a tax cut, we can't guarantee there won't be a single middle income taxpayer that won't see a tax increase. that's the reality. these are really tough issues and as they dig into it they're finding out how difficult that could be. >> trump is a terrible president who nonetheless has sounder political instincts tan anyone in the gop leadership, responding to the story from bloomberg. trump who has in some ways political instincts about this stuff that i think is sounder than, say, paul ryan's. you've still got the ryan agenda and they cannot make the whole thing work. >> i think he's got great salesman instincts. and being a good salesman works well with the american people if you go past the media, go straight to twitter, things like that. i really think this whole administration would do a lot better if the people like kelly
wouldn't come out and try to translate for him and make it seem as though he's just this reasonable guy and has all these reasonable positions, when we've all got eyes, we can see how he is. and you know, if they would just be a little more honest, when they say he's a straight talker, he as straight talker, so embrace that and say, i wouldn't have said it but i'm not the president. >> i would say he's a weird mix of a sort of shockingly honest in some moments and incredibly, incredibly in your face deceptive in others. there's sort of all mixed together. >> i think some people call that diarrhea of the mouth, yeah. >> lonny, do you think -- the kelly is clearly out there because of the corker comments and because of the reporting about the background and because of tillerson, et cetera. i mean, do you think republicans are behind closed doors saying, where's this guy going? and concerned about that? >> well, i think republicans feel like there are a number of folks in the administration who
are playing very important roles. i think rex tillerson's one of them, jim mattis is another, certainly john kelly. the question becomes if those individuals end up leaving the administration for some reason, then what? i think there is certainly concern about the future of those individuals because i think a lot of folks feel like they're the people who are there promoting -- in some ways i guess more traditional conservative viewpoints on a lot of these issues. without them the question is, what comes next? there's more uncertainty ask, that worries people. >> ben howe and lonny chen, thank you both. tonight, fed up with congress, the president signs an executive order as part of a continued and sustained effort to dismantle obamacare. what his latest effort actually accomplishes in two minutes. when you have a cold stuff happens. shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels.
sign the order, he forgot. >> we will have great health care in our country. thank you all very much. appreciate it, thank you. thank you very much, thank you. thank you everybody. oh! the most important thing. >> after that momentary lapse, the president did get around to signing the order which allows skimpier plans in some circumstances and could erode health care exchanges by drawing away healthier enrollees. the new order only part what was has been a brought campaign against the aca with congress repeatedly trying and failing to pass repeal and replace legislation, the administration has worked to chip away at the law including gutting the
advertisement budget for enrollment, slashing outreach funds to help people enroll, shutting down the obamacare sign-up site for 12 hours and almost every sunday of open enrollment, and cutting that open enrollment period. tweeting extensive how the executive order is another sabotage in the campaign, andy slavitt, good to have you here. >> great to be here. >> you know this inside and out. let's start with what do you mean -- i love the term synthetic repeal, what's that mean? >> look, the republican party and trump ran seven years of raising nine figures of money on a promise that they would simply repeal and replace the aca. so going back as we go into 2018, an election year, oh, we can't do it, it's not a possibility. so i think left to his own devices, they're coming up with everything they can do to say, forget john mccain, he's a rhino, we're going to be able to
do everything that we promised to do through this executive order and by cutting some medicaid through the tax bill. >> so i guess what does that mean for people? so the executive order today combined with what they've been doing. what does that mean for the landscape of health care? >> think about the major pieces of repeal. one of them was that they were going to remove the federal protections against pre-existing conditions. according to the american academy of actuaries who looked at the executive order as it came out today, that's exactly what this does. the other thing they're going -- >> removes protections for pre-existing conditions? >> it does it by essentially creating a second plan as you described to your viewers earlier. and that plan sitting alongside the aca essentially, with no rules, no regulations, is basically designed to allow young, healthy people -- this is great for 28-year-old males, can find cheaper policies as long as they don't get sick. but for everybody else brings their costs up. if you have a pre-existing condition that not only brings
your costs up but according to the actuaries they think many insurers will leave entirely and there may not be the availability of coverage. >> i saw a wide variety of health care groups today across spectrums and interests coming out against this. there's a question how long this will take and if they'll actually do it. they've had a record of issuing executive orders. dave day has tracked this, they issue an executive order then no one does anything on it, it sits there. >> that's a really great point. if this scratches the president's itch to have done something, and then these orders go to treasury and to human services and labor and they take their time and put out some regs and water them down there here, we could actually -- and let the country move on to other issues, that would be a good thing. i think what people are fearful of, if you listened to his press conference, he said this is the beginning of a dismantling of the aca. i think we're going to have to
figure out whether he means it or whether this is his rhetoric. >> the theme is the aca tried to create this marketplace where you had healthy people and sick people and old people and young people, everyone pooling the risk together, smooth out the risk, you can charge premiums that are acceptable, subsidized by the golf. the theme it seems of everything they've done on this legislation at the executive level is hiving off healthy people, stopping the outreach to get them in giving them other options. >> right. i think that's a function of it not being the aca. i don't think that's his political philosophy. >> there's no political philosophy. >> conservative think tank in 1993 battling hillarycare, they said let's create one risk pool, that would be the best idea possible. you've got essentially a man who feels he needs to deliver something for his donors. >> there's this fundamental conceptual promiscuousness where cassidy-graham, three weeks ago, which would be 50 different state regimes, the opposite of take the lines off around the
states, there's no unifying principle here. >> i think if you give graham another few months, he's so good at the sunday shows, he might have come up with a unifying sounding theme. the problem is in reality when they say we're going to give states more authority, you look at what happened. oklahoma, minnesota. they submitted waivers to the trump administration. think didn't get them approved. they didn't even get answers. >> like they literally wrote to them and said, what's up? and got nothing. >> it's only federalism, you know. that's really what we're dealing with. >> an day slavitt, thanks for joining me. as desperation mounts on the numbers of americans dying on the island continues to rise, why on earth did the president of the united states threaten to pull federal emergency response out of puerto rico?
three weeks after hurricane maria the government puts the official 91 of people dead at 49. but two democratic members of congress want a federal audit on that number citing recent reports suggesting the death toll is much higher than is being officially acknowledged. while hundreds of people remain unaccounted for, the president implied that he is already ready to abandon the federal recovery effort saying in a statement released on twitter, we cannot keep team mafema and military responders in pr forever. white house chief of staff explained the comment was exactly accurate, fema and the u.s. military continue be in puerto rico doing disaster recovery for literal forever. that seems to miss the point. the president suged this 22 days after the storm made landfall in puerto rico. fema was present in new orleans for six years after hurricane katrina.
if the president pull s recover effort on 3.5 million american citizens, 85% of the island without power, 40% without clean drinking water. a cbs reporter captured images of cars lining up to get freshwater from a pvc pipe that tapped into a hillside stream. here's a picture of a fema flyer instructing an area without internet or cell phone coverage to call or register online for disaster assistance. the journalist who snapped that picture joins me next. oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that's it. look how much coffee's in here? fresh coffee. so rich. i love it. that's why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you're describing the coffee and not me? do you wear this every day? everyday. i'd never take it off. are you ready to say goodbye to it? go! go! ta da! a terrarium. that's it. we brewed the love, right guys? (all) yes.
without pg&e's assistance, without their training our collaboration with pg&e is centered around public safety. we could not do our mission to keep our community safe. anytime we are responding to a structure fire, one of the first calls you make is for pg&e for gas and electric safety. it's my job to make sure that they have the training that they need to make the scene safe for themselves and for the public. it's hands-on training actually turning valves, turning systems off, looking at different wire systems all that training is crucial to keeping our community safe and our firefighters safe. together, we're building a better california.
we're currently in yasco, puerto rico. we have an urgent message to get out about what's really going on here in western puerto rico. right now we're only giving out to the people in the mountains one small meal and six bottles of water per family. that is all they're getting. >> that was former army cavalry scout jason maddie on the ground in a town of about 30,000. molly crabapple just got back from puerto rico and joins me now. i know your dad's from the island, you have friends there. you got outside san juan, where were you? >> i was in barrio mariana, a small village, the first place on the island that the hurricane hit. >> and what was -- how much federal presence did you see there in terms of military or fema or federal officials? >> i personally saw zero
presence. when i was there, the only aid that people in mariana had received was a municipal truck that gave people two small bottles of water, a pack of tropical-flavored skittles, a newt ra grain bar, and a pack of virginia sausages. i do know the military and the fbi came about three weeks after the hurricane and they did distribute mres and water. but that was pretty much it. >> in terms of how people are living their lives there, i'm assuming there was no electricity. >> none. >> and how were people -- how are people getting the bakes? which is water, electricity, food? >> some people had generators. but if you have a generator, your life becomes an endless wait on six-hour lines for diesel. to get water, you either waited fare hours and hours at costco using your scarce reserves of gasoline, or you went to a creek on the side of the mountain and collected it in a jug. >> so people were just getting rainwater off a creek?
>> or springwater off a creek, that's what i did. i brought a filter, we'd purify it. this is very dangerous because disease is spreading on the island because there were all of these animal corpses that were left to rot. it's getting into the water. >> so it sounds like a nonfunctional situation. so it's like -- sounds like what's happening is people's days are taken up with the basics of survival. there's nothing -- no one's going to work or doing the things that you would normally do. >> exactly. communication is so bad that even pharmaceutical companies, which are the biggest industries, are calling into the one radio station to tell their workers whether or not to come to work. most people don't have the ability to get to their jobs. their credit cards don't work. their ebt cards don't work. huge lines to access the atm. $200 maximum. that cash will run out. so it's the struggle for survival. but the thing about puerto
ricons is that this is a very, very close-knit culture, a culture of family, friends, barrios, neighborhoods. and so people are taking care of each other. it's not the federal government that's taking care of people. it's not fema. it's people taking care of each other. in barrio mariana, the couple that i stayed with, christine and luis rodriguez sanchez, set up a community kitchen that's feeding hundreds of people. these community kitchens are happening all over the island. as people give up on help from fema and decide to take caring for themselves and their neighbors into their own hands. >> how aware will people of this sort of -- the president's comments, the president's perspective towards puerto rico, what would the feelings about the federal government and its involvement? >> one older woman i spoke to said, oh, trump came into the richest town in puerto rico and threw toilet paper at people's heads, he's trying to humiliate us. in general it's viewed as an
extension of the same racist, colonialist, stereotypical thinking that america has had for puerto rico since it poll noised it in 1898. >> do you think -- do folks have hope that things are going to change in the short-term? or this sense that this -- adjustments we've made to eke out survival, which is food, water, electricity, diesel, that that is going to be the status quo for a while? >> some people have accepted that that will be the status quo for a while and are trying to build on it. with these community efforts. other people are sort of hanging on. one woman that i met, her mother who has alzheimer's and dementia and can't speak, she was kicked out of her nursing home because there was no electricity. doesn't have access to medicine. she's trying to keep her mother alive in this crushing heat with no access to clean water. someone like that needs help as soon as possible. they can't just adjustment. >> molly crab apple, thank you for your reporting, thank you for joining us. why a senior facebook
executive says owe the american people an apology. plus tonight's "thing 1, thing 2." it's a good one next. that can fix itself? is that the work of wizards? yes. technical wizards. who, with the visionary engineers at ge, developed predix- giving plane engines the ability to self-diagnose problems, and alert those who can fix them. and that's no illusion. magic can't make digital transformation happen. but we can.
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"thing 1" tonight, senator lindsey graham gave a 33-minute interview to "golf" magazine to defend his claim that during a round of golf on monday, president trump shot a 73 in windy and wet conditions. that contention raised plenty of eyebrows because it would mean the 71-year-old president would rank among the best senior golfers in the entire world. for some context, consider hall of fame golfer hale irwin, who turned 72 in june, has a scoring average of just over 73 in the seven champions tour events he's played this year. but in the course of attempting to justify his claim, the president shot a 73, president graham perhaps inadvertently gave away trump's secret for success on the course -- he cheats. that's "92" in 60 seconds.
in defending his implausible claim president trump shot a 73 on the golf course monday, senator lindsey graham admitted to "golf" magazine the president likes to take gimme putts instead of finishing out the hole. we know what the president considers a gimme and it is generous. sports writer rick riley told "the washington post" trump once called a gimme on what should have been a chip shot adding, when it comes to cheating he's an 11 on a detail 1 to 10. the president seen here driving his golf cart onto the green is a notorious cheater on the course and there are plenty of stories illustrating how he does it. reportedly sometimes respond to a shot he duffed by playing a second ball and carrying on as if the first shot never happened. tmz reporting after trump shanked his shoot out of bounds he drove down the course, turned his golf cart to block him as he tu
took a ball out of his pocket rolled the bat into the roof. he's been called a cheater by alex cooper, samuel jackson, and de la hoya, who said trump hit a ball into the bushes then dropped another one three feet from the hole like it was there the whole time. the president denies all this of course. he forced former ceo jeff immedical to tell a very different story. >> jeff actually watched me make a hole in one, can you believe that? should you tell that story? actually said i was the best golfer of all the rich people. to be exact. and then i got ahold of him. y... ...you might be missing something... ♪ ...your eyes. that's why there's ocuvite. it helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. nourish your eyes to help keep them healthy. ocuvite. be good to your eyes.
you've probably heard about the russian-linked facebook ads purchased to influence the presidential election. but what did that actually look like? here's one from a group calling itself defend the second. you can see there a woman holding a gun. the question, why do i have a gun? it's one of at least 3,000 ads believed to be linked to a
particular russian troll farm. and reporting indicates the ads were targeted to certain groups, often focusing on hot-button issues like gun rights or border security. if you look carefully there's a clue. "why do i have a gun? because it's easier for my family to get me out of jail than the cemetery." the spelling often a mistake by russians speaking english. with 3,000 ads reportedly reaching 10 million people in the run-up to the presidential election, chief operating officer sheryl sandberg went to meet with the house intelligence committee to address concerns about these ads and how they were used. the house intelligence committee plans to release the 3,000 ads to the public after the tech companies facebook, twitter testify before congress. it's particular facebook has created a system it's struggling to control.
sandberg addressed it. what she said after this break. if you've been struggling with belly pain and constipation, and you're overwhelmed by everything you've tried-- all those laxatives, daily probiotics, endless fiber-- it could be wearing on you. tell your doctor what you've tried, and how long you've been at it. linzess works differently from laxatives. linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation. it can help relieve your belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements that are easier to pass.
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she apologized and the benign platform defense. >> we're a platform where people express themselves every day and keep our platform as free of abuse as possible. we're a new kind of platform. in our heart, we're a tech company. we don't hire reporters, no one's a journalist. we don't cover the news. but when we say that, we're not saying we don't have a responsibility. in fact, we're a new kind of platform with our size we think we have more responsibility. >> co-editor of a platform in some ways and senior editor of "new york" magazine. they are joining me now. it's like, what are you? what are you? what is facebook? >> it's a platform, sure. it's also a community about 2 billion people, it's also a publisher, an advertising company and also the most advanced surveillance system on the planet and it's all of these things at once and some of these
things have very mutually exclusive incentives and responsibilities. >> it strikes me that one of the things max said there is key. it's an advertising platform. the way that they make money is through surveillance and advertising, which is they figure out who you are and then they sell ads to target you and whatever they're going to do is they are not going to want to do anything that cuts into that. >> bingo. more than anything, facebook monetizes your attention in mind, the users. there was a time on the internet when we didn't have to go to these walled gardens to connect with our friends when we had websites that were sort of more independent. we all know that half of americans are so -- get their news through facebook. what people don't know is that news publishers, in order to get the news to you, to get their campaign to you typically have to pay facebook and when we talk about ads in this context, which sheryl sandberg mentioned, even
as she brought up a red herring with twitter's handling of marsha blackburn's campaign ad, she mentioned that in this interview, she talked about how twitter made a bad call in banning a political ad. and then she said blackburn and everybody else, essentially everyone knows that in order to reach your audience on facebook, you have to pay. my site boingboing.net, you have to pay. here's the thing. sandberg said in that interview that it was traceable, the russians spyops campaign during the last election, so that was paid ads as well and they were paid for in rubles. so show me the receipts. if their in rubles, it shouldn't be that hard to track down and why not have facebook return that money, like everybody's
saying that hillary clinton ought to do with weinstein's money and everybody talking about the donations that harvey weinstein made and that the political beneficiaries of those donations should return it. i say facebook ought to return that because facebook is profiting off of this and they knew it when it was happening. >> did they know it when it was happening? that's the question, right? i think a lot about the parallel because i've spent a lot of time covering the financial crisis. a big question about the financial crisis is, were they done or be a borrow richist? was it huber rift or aborist. and with facebook, do they not know or not care or want to make a lot of money? >> i think it's both. they are so big and so widespread and so automated that they can't look at all of it all the time. >> buying an ad on facebook is like getting a candy bar from a vending machine. >> you don't have to talk to somebody for it and it's been great for small groups that need
it but it's also great for russians who might want to buy ads on facebook and not have anybody know that they are russian. >> do you think that the platform at the current size can continue in this way with the changes that someone like sandberg promises? xeni? >> absolutely not. what we're seeing right now is sheryl sandberg on the most earnest crime offensive crisis p.r. tour of all time. i think they both know that what they are staring at is the possibility of government regulations and they'd very much like to avoid that. as i heard yesterday earlier today on msnbc, this is not about relitigating the 2016 elections alone, although the result of that election is something that feels very unstable and very scary to a lot of us adults. >> right. >> but this is also about moving ahead. so if facebook, as i believe they did, was essentially
identified by russian intelligence as having some big, gaping security holes that could be exploited by russia for their own purposes, that has to be addressed in a much bigger way than just this sort of super well rehearsed pr event that happened today. it's not like questions were even rehearsed and i didn't hear an answer. i didn't hear real answers about, for instance, she was asked by axios, is it possible that the russian ad buy targeting and trump campaign overlapped? she didn't refer to it in government seeing it in due time. it seemed so disingenuous so not genuine and like a real insult to a lot of americans who have trust in facebook as a platform that doesn't profit off of pushing misinformation at us. and that's the thing. this is not about free speech.
they are not a nonprofit and this is about are you free to profit and are you something that harms america when you know it's harming america. >> is it the silicon -- >> they like the free speech argument and it's something that we all intuitively understand and support and facebook is not a government. it might sort of seem like a state or a government but free speech works in the united states because we have a very lengthy history body of law and judicial warnings and ways to hold the government accountable and to fight back and to appeal rulings and facebook is a giant black box with a few people at the very top and their ideas about what should be allowed and what shouldn't be is somewhere in there and sort of filtered out into moderator contracts
that live in bangladesh and philippines and wherever else. and they're not like the u.s. government where we can say, yes, we have a right to free speech on this. >> xeni and max, thank you both. that is "all in" this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> it's been a busy news day. kist jen nielsen was nominated to lead dhs. if her nomination is approved, she'll go back to the homeland security department to be the new person running that agency. she's known for her ex ppertisen cybersec