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tv   MSNBC Live With Alex Witt  MSNBC  October 15, 2017 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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first prescription free at that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here next sunday skpmpt now let me give you the one and only alex witt. >> i almost went into tears thinking about you walking your daughter down the aisle. if you shed a few tears that's okay. >> i promise that i will try to be composed. >> i'm sure you will be. very dignifiedignified. for all of you a good morning. i'm alex witt. it is 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west. new alarm over the president's obamacare cuts. a report just out suggests who might be hurt most by the latest moves. taking on the nfl again. president trump with a new message this weekend on the
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kneeling controversy. why is he so obsessed with football and might it all back fire on him? the spreading california wildfires. new stories on rescues and how doctors are taking action to save lives. the harvey weinstein saga. more women stepping forward to claim sexual assault and rape. new details and reaction ahead. we begin with health care in the after math of the controversial decision to end a key provision. a new analysis found that move will impact some who put the president moot office. about 6 million will benefit from cost-sharing subsidies used to help low income americans pay for out of pocket costs. nearly 70% live in states trump won in november. as the president solicited support he was seen golfing with
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senator lindsey graham. the pair went golfing for the second time in this past week. kelly o'donnell has more. what all came out of that meeting? >> reporter: we haven't gotten a specific readout about the president's time with senator graham. we will try for that again today and this week. it is significant that the president is reaching out todey is very much a part of the republican establishment. it was set against the same day where the president's former chief strategist was taking on the republican party declaring war. he says he is a fighter in the ring and what he is doing is pitting the trump style outsiders against the republican party. president trump invited critic republican senator lindsey graham for another round of golf. his former chief strategist
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steve bannen. >> this is not my war. this is our war. >> reporter: was taking a swing at republican party elites. >> there is a time and season for everything. and right now it's a season of war against a gop establishment. >> a civil war to be waged by conservatives like those at the value voter summit. president trump was welcome there friday. bannon urged grass roots conservatives to expel traditional republicans wary of trump. >> sick of the phonies, fakes and frauds who pretend to promise to get things done and they don't. >> many angered that republicans did not replace obamacare. >> they got claekted and ran on repealing obamacare and they didn't do it. >> acting without congress president trump ended government payments to insurance companies that subsidized health insurance costs for lower income buyers
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under obamacare. >> take a look at who those insurance companies support and i guarantee you one thing, it's not donald trump. >> trump supporters may feel the pinch. the associated press finds president trump won nine of ten states where consumers benefitted most from cost sharing subsidies. the congressional budget office projects about a 20% increase nationwide. it's important to understand that the change to these cost sharing reductions is something that came out of litigation where a court found that congress had not appropriated this money to pay insurance companies to make insurance more affordable for low income families. and that legal case is the basis where the trump administration says it is no longer going to pay these subsidies. what it also does is it is a way for the trump administration to try to leverage democrats to
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begin a negotiation. those reflect middle and low income voters and this is a policy fight. this is a tactic by the trump administration to not only degrade obamacare, make it less effective but to try to get democrats to negotiate some sorts of changes. we heard the president say the democrats need to come to him or they would go to them after republicans with all of their authority in washington couldn't get change done themselves. >> that last point not lost on us. thank you so much. joining me now political reporter for real clear politics and washington correspondent for usa today. how do you interpret the president's second outing with senator lindsey graham. >> i was trying to rack my brain back to just a few months ago
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and the campaign trail when lindsey graham was a top critic of the president, one of the few who said he didn't support him in the election. lindsey graham was an author of a republican obamacare replacement plan that failed. he is also an author of immigration policy particularly focussed on children of undocumented immigrants. i wonder if that is part of the calculus here. what we know about donald trump is that he likes these kinds of relationships. once he kind of is one-on-one with some of the people that he has criticized he becomes friendly with them. we have seen this with people like rand paul. the two of them recently as this week teamed up on an executive order on health care. >> what do you think about all of this? you know this friendly part? do you think it is authentic or just for political expediency? it is hard to think about being
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name called by the president and then saying let's have a beer. >> lindsey graham did something brilliant last week after his golf outing with the president which is that he tweeted what a great golfer donald trump was and said he beat him even in hard conditions. >> i think he got a 73. you do have to give him that. >> and for lindsey graham to broadcast that is his olive branch to donald trump saying i'm willing to praise you in public, as we publi public, as well. they want the bannon wing wants every republican to denounce bob corker for being mean to donald trump in public. lindsey graham by being friendly with donald trump is avoiding that kind of abuse. >> let's talk about the rolling back of obamacare subsidies saying 70% of those benefits from the cost sharing subsidies
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live in states trump won last november. you think that reality will sink in for trump supporters? and if it does when will that happen? >> i think the combination on this and the executive on obamacare and new health care plans i think is really aimed at trying to show that the administration is doing something when the republican congress could not. when you talk to republican lawmakers the issue of the subsidies is pretty concerning to them. this is a direct undermining of the law at a time where it is still the law. and so i think that is going to be problematic. now republicans and donald trump are in a situation where if you break it you buy it. they certainly now own this, any results that come from this kind of move on health care as you mentioned that a.p. piece investigation into it. what is interesting here i think what trump is doing from a political standpoint is kind of setting himself up to not take
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blame really for the political fallout as it pertains to obamacare so far as the republicans couldn't get a replacement plan done. he is basically saying to republicans you couldn't act so i am. >> do you think there is any realistic prospect that this move to cut obamacare subsidies forces congress meaning members from both sides of the aisle to act to make sure millions don't lose -- could there be health care compromise as a result of this realistically? >> it is hard to see. what the president is doing here is a really fascinating gamble. he said in the health care arena i'm going to cut these subsidies unless congress acts to fix it. he said in the immigration arena i'm going to eliminate protections for the dreamers unless congress acts to fix it. he said in the iran deal i will decertify the iran deal unless congress acts to fix it. congress is the least competent branch of our government at this
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point. they are not able to fix anything. what the president is asking them to do is to fix all of this stuff including keep in mind at the end of the year we have to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling. there is a series of crisis coming to a head around christmas. i don't understand how congress does any of it unless donald trump is working some grand bargain where all of it will land in one giant bill which will beep a catastrophe. >> i think funding the government is less than two months away. that is always a huge lift. i want to play a sound talking about the next election. here it is. >> president trump's not only going to finish this term, he is going to win with 400 electoral votes in 2020. >> what is more likely -- as we sit here october 15 we have the president reelected with 400 electoral votes or impeachment
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sometime well before that or democrat controlled house and senate in the mid terms and not necessarily in that order? >> democrats if they are able to win the house that would be something that they could proceed with. what is interesting here, though, back to paul's point about republicans and donald trump, when you look at the polling, the base of the republican party really dislikes the republican party. they dislike -- there is a visceral reaction to republican leadership. and bannon is certainly tapping into that. trump tapped into that. that is the kind of thing we are going to see over and over again. you wonder as it pertains to donald trump how he handled the mid term elections in terms of trying to get more republicans elected especially when i think hi he is going to blame both. >> bannon said he would support senators up for reelection only if they say they will try to
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remove mitch mcconnell from power there. what do you think about all of this? >> i will note that huey burns did not put down odds on 2020. >> i have gotten out of that business. >> the real question first is will people feel the pinch in their pocket books from these health care changes next spring? if so it will be a dangerous reelection cycle for the republicans particularly if you have steve bannon attacking six or seven incumbent republican senators running for reelection. that makes the field much, much bigger. the field is supposed to look good for republicans because more democrats are in jeopardy. it has all been turned up on its end with the bannon wing. if people start to see major increases in health insurance, if the tax plan collapses there is a possibility that republicans can go into the reelection cycle very much aground. >> good to see you both.
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thank you so much. next, how is it not personal from the paring accord to iran deal to obamacare. president trump's actions as president and what is really motivating them. witness katy perry.
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katy perry: with music videos and behind the scenes footage, xfinity lets you witness all things me. let's go to the latest on wild fires. in santa rosa, let's talk about the situation where you are. i know yesterday we were talking about high winds. any abatement in them? >> authorities say they lost ground yesterday. they lost acreage due to high winds and hoping for a better day right now. right now in this area no winds at the moment. as we have seen over the last week things can change in just a split second. you mention rising death toll
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not only is that going up but wildfires have grown to 100 miles wide at points leaving behind devastated neighborhoods residentsege toor get back in and see damage. authorities are holding back in a lot of areas urging caution. hospitals and clinics, many remain closed. santa rosa memorial is open. the doctors and nurse tlz tres treating patients even though many have lost everything. >> we are seeing our doctors step up in a big way and overstaffing the emergency department and everyone throughout the hospital, they are leaving their family and putting in the work to save lives and to deliver quality medical care even in the face of this disaster. it is remarkable. >> reporter: about 10,000 firefighters are here on the
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ground working not just from other states but also from other countries. the nunz fire closer to the area where i am, that is about 15% contained. it has consumed some 47,000 acres. it is here in individual neighborhoods on these r residential streets that you get an idea of how it translates into the life of an ordinary homeowner. >> when you look at an aerial view and see everything is reduced to ash. is there any clarification on the numbers of people still missing? that has to cause great concern. i know there have been people who maybe their cell phones have been left behind. is there any discussion about that out there with officials? >> reporter: there has been discussion about that because they say hundreds are reported
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missing but they don't expect that that actually means that hundreds are dead and they need to find those remains. this happens where people get on the list, they are repeats. multiple relatives reporting missing and using nick names and full names. it happens where people haven't been able to check in or they were elderly and never had a cell phone to begin with and never found a way to reach out and confirm with authorities that i am safe. >> thank you so much. kicked out. harvey weinstein gone from the academy of motion picture arts and sciences. you will hear from a film maker who worked with the weinstein company on a documentary about rape.
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tillerson on president trump's refusal to recertify the nuclear deal with iran. joining me now republican congressman member of the house intelligence committee. i understand you were originally against the iran nuclear deal and in a statement you issued out to the president's remarks you said it appears that iran is complying with the agreement. does that mean you think the president should have recertified the agreement? >> well, the deal is flawed as the secretary of state just said in your opening piece in that the inspection regime is not sufficient. it does not provide access at any time and any place. it does not restrict their missile development which is where they place the united states at risk and has a limited ten-year period which means at year 11 it would appear to sanction or approve if they should break out and then recommence their nuclear program. i do believe, i met with
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international atomic agency and briefed on intelligence committee that iran is in material compliance. the president, though, in looking at not certifying was looking to issues of their past compliance within the deal and also the issue of iran's adventuresomeness and meddling in their neighbors affairs. he is concerned that iran is one of the largest destabilizing factors in the region. i think that was probably most significant as pect. >> the lack of recertifying this deal, do you think this complicates matters? you have former secretary of defense saying there is no strategy behind it and u.s. allies don't agree with it and james mattis said it could compromise national security. do you at least agree in part? >> we were in this unusual situation because president
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obama decided not to pursue a treaty with iran. this was done by the president himself and congress passed laws to provide oversight of the iran deal and we are in that oversight structure where the president was asked to certify their compliance and congress is supposed to review. the president in not agreeing to certify said in his good conscience, it is up to congress under the oversight provisions to review whether or not action should be taken. the president said this is a flawed deal and would give an opportunity to address. all of our allies across the world say in addition to it appears iran is materially complying that the deal is flawed and it needs to be addressed. you cannot have a deal only ten years and inspection regime issues that need to be addressed and they are advancing in missile technology. there are issues to be addressed here. and certainly i am hopeful that
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the president's lack of certification gives the united states and allies an opportunity to reflect and engage iran to correct the deficiencies in this deal. i want tomove to health care. your colleague on the house intelligence committee called president trump the worst president in modern history after the president said he would roll back obamacare piece by piece. does adam schiff have a point? >> adam is very highly partisan. i will not respond to his statement. let me say this about obamacare. obamacare is failing. and like the iran deal some failings are because president obama decided to undertake actions in the health care area not just through the pursuit of legislation but through a number of executive orders including as you mentioned earlier on providing subsidies that were not appropriated by congress and taking action by the president. that, of course, puts that portion, that legacy of obamacare at risk.
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president trump has to decide whether or not he continues the president obama legacy or if he does what he says he is going to do which is take action to rein in areas where there are executive orders and force congress to take action. everyone says obamacare is failing. it needs to be addressed in the house and senate. this is a dialogue i think will go on for a while until we find the right solution. the president is taking a look at what actions president obama has taken and what actions he can to move this debate forward. >> i want to make sure people understand what it is we are talking about. the president is ending health insurance subsidies that help low income people pay for health care. the executive order will give access to less comprehensive plans. i'm looking at your district. we looked at that almost 70% of the population has no health insurance. 15% under 65 has disability. 35% live in poverty. what are you doing to make sure
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they have their health care needs met? >> i think you are incorrectly looking at what president trump is doing. what he is doing is he is not ending the subsidies. he is saying i'm ending the structure where these are done unilaterally by president obama. he said i am looking to congress to fix this. >> he is saying he does not want the federal government to give money for these and support these. which allows them to give lower rates to their clients. >> he said congress needs to fix this. and this is certainly a very broader debate. i believe that if you look at what is happening in the health care debate that we are identifying the areas that need to be addressed. i do not support the house plan which would have cut medicaid and would have had an impact on the people in my district because i have 47,000 people on the medicaid expansion under obamacare and those cuts would
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result in less health care in my district and that is why i voted against it. i think we can come up with a plan, though, that would guarantee the health care coverage for those receiving it and fix the problems with obamacare and look how we can get quality health care for americans. >> will you come back when congress fixes it and will i see you soon, sir? >> i would be glad to. i would come back at any time. this is a debate that is going to be ongoing. there are a number of plans that are very thoughtful and the debate going on is a very important one. >> have a good sunday. the published reports about the chaos in the white house. could frustration be fuelling the con fluctflicconflict? this is a story about mail and packages.
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welcome back, everyone. i'm alex witt. he is what we are monitoring for you.
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two women in the uk are accusing harvey weinstein of rape. told scotland yard weinstein attacked her in the '80s and sarah smith claims she was assaulted by weinstein at the miramax offices in 1992. a spokesman is quoted as saying mr. weinstein denies allegations of nonconsenseual sex. and back in the u.s. academy of motion pictures and sciences has voted to expel weinstein. anne thompson has more. >> reporter: disgraced producer harvey weinstein wakes up no longer wanted by people whose approval he craved. the board of governors voted to immediately expel weinstein from the academy that awards oscars saying the era of willful ignorance and shameful
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complisity in sexually predatory in our industry is over. >> the academy has ignored scandals surrounding bill cosby, why is it taking on harvey weinstein? >> this is a completely different academy than the one that awarded roman polanski an award. they are trying to meet this outcry to punish harvey weinstein. >> something weinstein's brother, bob endorses in an interview saying he had no idea about the type of predator that he was and adding i want him to get the justice he deserves. harvey weinstein denies any allegations of nonconsenseual sex. with more than 30 women accusing him of sexual harassment this morning weinstein is facing retribution from his brother and hollywood. the question is will criminal justice be next. anne thompson, nbc news, new york. >> joining me now is academy
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award nominated and emmy documentary film maker. it led to five congressional hearings and 35 pieces of legislation. thank you for joining me. good to see you again. i know the wieinstein company picked up this story about rape. talk about the irony. >> it is pretty ironic but it isn't surprising because predators are embedded in all different places in our culture and not surprising and particularly when men can be in positions of power that they can explo exploit. the entertainment industry is rife with people that can commit these crimes. >> the fact is you have taken on these big issues. you did the invisible war documentary. you say it is not surprising to you. if it wasn't surprising, no action for 30 years based on
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those coming forward now documenting incidents leading back to the '80s, what prevented people who worked closely with him from taking action? >> you raise a really good point. these crimes are on harvey but the complisity is on all of this. it is the society that allows these men the small percentage of men commit the crimes but allowed to commit them with impugnity by all of us. i hope this is teachable moment about. how can someone go on for decades? why are we only hearing about this now? all different cultures colluded to keep it quiet. women are not encouraged to come forward. it is a horrible thing to go through in our criminal justice system and plus the predators exploit their position of power over these women and they intimidate and silence everyone around them. you see that in all of the
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stories around harvey, the way he silenced the press. it is horrific. i am glad this is coming to light and i am hoping this will finally have people feeling safe to come out and speak and all the rest of us will feel safe in reporting the crimes and not being so fearful of men in power. >> i know you said coming forward is not without risk. why? you were citing one woman i read who was very much a whistle blower and left the weinstein company and working at ammazon. you spoke about her and your real concerns about her. >> imagine something horrible happens to you and we all know that even though our society is all sex positive, sex is a very private, intimate act. it's very intimate and personal. it is hard to talk about. if you come forward and talk about it and people don't believe you it's doubly
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betraying and embarrassing. if not only come forward and talk about it or people start to blame you and then people rally around your perpetrator it's this confluence of circumstances to really silence victims. that's what i'm hoping is shifting. i'm hoping that people are starting to think people don't sort of casually report rape. people aren't really making up that the crime happened to them. i like to say or think about is think about when women report burglaries and physical violence attacks no one says i'm not really sure you knew what happened or are you sure you didn't mean to give the burglar your television set. we get these crazy questions when we report rape which we are as unlikely to report falsely as we are unlikely to report any other crime in our society falsely. >> i'm very curious about your experience working on this
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documentary with the weinstein company. any association you had with harvey weinstein. i will suspect you were pretty fierce. did you encounter anything unsavory? >> we personally didn't. radius was a small independent company within the weinstein company and we worked with them and their executives. i had no personal interactions with harvey weinstein and actually never met him even once lady gaga got the nomination for the song. >> as you said, we hope this is a teachable moment. we shall see. thank you so much. good to see you. >> thank you. president trump's obamacare executive order. what it will mean for families. on am joy a billionaire's demands for the democrats. impeach the president.
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i'll have the langoustine lobster ravioli. for you, sir? the original call was for langoustine ravioli. a langoustine is a tiny kind of lobster. a slight shellfish allergy rules that out, plus my wife ordered the langoustine. i will have chicken tenders and tater tots. if you're a ref, you way over-explain things. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. sir, we don't have tater tots. it's what you do. i will have nachos!
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new ripple effects from president trump's decision to get rid of obamacare health care subsidies and allowing plans that offer coverage if less money, a new article says the timing could not be worse and could inflict major disruption of enrollment season. joining me now former democrat presidential candidate mart on maly. curious of what you make of the timing of all of this. what do you think could be impact on families? >> i think what donald trump is doing is destabilizing the market. he is going to be costing the federal government more and it will have an impact on middle class families who see themselves paying more in premiums because of the uncertainty that he is intentionally injecting into the health care market. so i don't understand how it makes sense for anyone especially if you are a family who is already paying high premiums for health care. >> democrats reportedly want to
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push legislation to put a halt to this particular executive order. republicans control both houses of congress. is there any chance they can convince gop colleagues to join them? >> hope springs eternal. i think there is a lot of conversations going on right now among republican members of congress who see as i think ted cruz was reported as saying if this administration, this white house in chaos, continues down this road, increasing costs for middle class families, increasing insecurity in this world by actions whether on iran deal or the nuclear antagonisms with north korea, i think they see themselves headed for some bad voter correction and retribution against republican party in the mid term. perhaps republicans in congress will start taking control of this white house. there are many things they can do to rein them in.
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i think you are starting to see signs of that. >> what you are saying whether or not people want to have a compromise with the president or looking ahead to looming mid terms, do you think that might be what pushes both sides to reach some sort of compromise which could be a net positive? >> look, our democracy has been around a long time. many time we go through periods of great instability and uncertainty. we never face quite the constitutional crisis we do right now. members of the president's own party saying things like maybe the 25th amendment should be invoked. so that is one sign. another one happened on gun control. the republicans members of the senate saying they would be open to banning these bump stocks that turn these weapons into machine guns and combat assault
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rifles. i do think that perhaps what we are seeing is the beginning of the republican party starting to find its true self again and return to the principles of lincoln. this trump administration, president trump i think is demonstrating that he believes himself to be a wrecking ball, that he needs to wreck things, tear up things, tear down things. that's not good for the common good we share as a people. >> to that end a wrecking ball or dismantler i want to take a look at what the president has dismantled. the clean power plan, obamacare subsidies. the iran deal, paris accord. on the face of it he is just dismantling and not constructing any of his own policies which at the very least is that not a p.r. problem? >> i think the people all across the country are realizing that we need to make a correction here. we need to start hitting the
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brakes. this isn't really about donald trump. it's not about president obama's legacy. it is about the challenges that middle class families across the country are experiencing when they see that their expenses are going up faster than their wages. then they see their own president taking reckless actions to drive up their health care costs. this is not making sense around the most important place in america and that is a family's kitchen table. that is why i think you are seeing in special election after special election that the democratic candidates are outcurporming republican candidates and doing 10 to 15 points better than anybody would predict on the eve of the elections. people aren't stupid. they see talk of a president unfit for office. the wrecking ball is actually hurting their pocket book. >> where do you come down on the multiple statements about the president being unfit for office? >> i have believed for a long
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time that he is unfit for office. this is a man who has had no experience in office. he is a person who cares not one whit about policy and who has no care about how government actually works and how these laws or policies or health care plans actually impact people. this guy is entirely about pr and he also demonstrates a malignant form of narcissism and paranoia which should have all of us very concerned when he has a finger on a nuclear button. >> you were chief executive of the state. can you understand some of the frustrations the president might be having? >> i can certainly understand the loneliness of high office and i can certainly understand the frustration in getting things done, but that is why we
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elect people to be chief executives. the things that we accomplished in my own state when i was governor during a recession were not easy and required a lot of compromise and required treating people with the dignity and respect that every person deserves especially those that are elected to pass laws and reach compromises that serve the interests of families all across the united states. the president doesn't really -- this president has demonstrated that he neither has the capacity to do that and to treat people decently and with dignity nor does he have the interest in doing that unless they want to play golf with them and scamper around like a lap dog and wear his red hat. >> martin o'malley, very good to see you. thank you so much. >> the president making a new push on the nfl kneeling issue. why does he keep bringing this topic up?
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that's news doesn't
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new this hour, rex tillerson moments ago refusing to admit he called donald trump a moron. joining me the former director of strategic communications for hillary clinton's campaign, and a former bush/cheney senior adviser. what does this tell you? is this surprising? >> no, it's not surprising at all. we have to remember rex tillerson was a fortune one or two ceo, and he's used to talking about what he thinks, at least in public. what is telling about this, alex, and we talked about this a couple years ago, he never denies he called the president a moron, and based on what i read, secretary tillerson has valid concerns. we know the president has humiliated this secretary of state on twitter, and he
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undercut the secretary of state by saying he negotiated with rocketman. never have been had a chief executive undercut the chief diplomat of the country. >> the president has dedicated time in his week to the nfl. are you tired to the president latching on to the nfl issue? is he trying to proclaim some sort of victory? >> yes. yes i am tired of it, but no, i'm not surprised. the president knows what he's doing here. the thing you have to remember about this president is he's very, very good at keeping his finger on the pulse of his base, by constantly reminding his base of a victory and also how patriotic he is, at least in this context. the person at home, probably in the middle part of the country is saying that's my guy, he's
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fighting for me. why isn't anybody else saying the same thing this president is saying? donald trump knows what he's doing here. >> adrian, to health care with you, and the president rolling back subsidies, and even some republicans are balking at that. here's senator collins. >> it's true that it will also have a destabilizing affect on the insurance markets and i think that's the last thing we should want and may force some insurers out altogether. my number one concern is the impact on low income individuals. >> can democrats seize upon this? >> you are right and susan collins is right. the president is saying congress will not work with me and repeal obamacare and i will take matters into my own hands and
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dismantle obamacare piece by piece. millions and millions of low income americans will lose health insurance or their health insurance costs will go so high they can't afford him. what donald trump doesn't realize is even if congress is not repealing obamacare, which is what he wants, he's going to own this, and going to own the instability of the market. he cannot shift the blame to congress and try to dismantle this by executive order by executive order. >> i want to play steve bannon talking about 2020. >> president trump is not only going to finish this term, but will win with 400 electoral votes in 2020. >> plausible? >> it's very plausible. if you look at the electoral map, and take a look at what donald trump is doing with his base and the fractured
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democratic party, it's very conceivable this president could win re-election. >> adrian, yes or no? >> yeah, i agree. democrats are rebuilding and a lot of people will run in 2020 and right now president trump does have the advantage in part because he is president of the united states. this is absolutely -- he's correct. >> okay, you guys, thank you so much. for all of you, i will be right back. stay with us.
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tais really quite simple.est it comes in the mail, you pull out the tube and you spit in it, which is something southern girls are taught you're not supposed to do. you seal it and send it back and then you wait for your results. it's that simple. that's a rap for me. now it's time for "am joy." >> when the international community gives iran a pass for all of these things, the ballistic missile testing and arms sales and they look the other way in the name of keeping a deal, then you are looking at something too big to fail. what we are trying to say, just because we all ma


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