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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  October 15, 2017 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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entire op ed. it's a brave and incredibly thought provoking. is there something that you've been accepting as okay that just isn't? change starts with every one of us. tweet me @yasmin v. with that i'll hand it over to my colleague. >> with you as well. we'll be back here in 12 hours, right? >> congratulations on starting your new show. >> congratulations to you as well. and certainly that about harvey weinstein a story that continues to develop by the day. for us here today, donald trump versus the world. the president's decision on iran once again putting him at odds with the global community which seems to be exactly where he likes to be and the war for the soul of the gop, steve bannon preparing to tear it all down while established republicans try to figure out how to save
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their party. obamacare on life support while president trump delivers the death blow to the affordable care act. more on all of those in a moment. we begin this hour with the iran deal just days after president trump threatened to pull out of the gaemt if congress fails to fix serious claws. the trump administration sending out its big guns to defend the decision. take a listen. >> if we cannot see movement, if we don't see some encouragement that we'll begin to address these then there's no reason to stay in. >> it's not that we're getting out of the deal, we're trying to make the situation better so the american people feel safer. >> iran's foreign minister spent two years bringing the deal to fruition. whatever the white house says, iran is going to stick by the nuclear accord. >> this is not a bilateral treaty between iran and the united states. so whatever domestic politicking
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he wants to do, that's his business. >> i want to go now to nbc correspondent in tehran whose talking over these talks and the deal. he joins us from the capital to tehr tehran. let's talk about how this week played out. do iranians feel they are winning the pr war on the jcpoa? >> reporter: it's very difficult to saying because everything is so uncertain right now. the iranians are wondering how this is all going to pan out because they've come out guns blazing. even the moderates have been forced to back the hard liners here. when president rouhani made his speech shortly after president trump, he made a fairly fiery speech by his standards, calling president trump ignorant, not having any understanding of international treaties, supporting the revolution regard which you have to do which is a
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very interesting aspect. during his election, campaign, president rouhani had been very critical of the guard, saying they have to dampen their influence and get out of businesses in these countries. now he has to be seen as a staunch supporter of them. any descendant will not be tolerated by hard liners here who have the upper hand. iranians have the balance of power has shifted from the moderates who are calling the shots when the deal seemed to be working during the obama administration, the balance of power here has firmly shifted into the hands of the hard liners. every day we're seeing the revolutionary guard come out with very, very strong statements. today senior guard said this was the first and the last time we do a deal with america. >> let me ask you about the revolution. they've been put in this category of under terrorism authority by the department of treasury here in the u.s. how is that playing out back home? we heard the foreign minister in iran, all iranians today are members of the igrc.
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that's something that got criticism in the u.s. how is it playing out in iran? >> reporter: again, a very delicate comment he's made. it's got mixed signals here. a lot of people have said we are not irgc. they've had a lot about of controversy here. they've been involved in human rights abuses, they've cracked down here when there's been any descent. on the other hand many iranians feel they've kept the country safe from the threat of isis. they've seen what's happen in syria and iraq and that hasn't happened here. so they're credited for keeping iran safe but they're also blamed for cracking down. a very complicated situation. >> indeed, it is. ali arouzi live for us in tehran. joining me now is hussein nuhaven. i want to begin by asking your
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personal reaction, somebody whose invested a lot of sweat knees this negotiations. two years down the road from when you were at ta table in gene geneva, could you ever imagine that the iran deal could be in jeopardy today as a result of the administration's decision. >> the iranians pessimistic about the u.s. since 2003. the negotiation started 2003 at the time i was member of nuclear negotiation team. we negotiated with them for two years till 2005. we were in position to agree based on nonproliferation treaty that iran would give guarantees. iran would accept every transparency measure and the world powers they would respect the rights of iran for peaceful nuclear technology. russians they agreed, chinese they agreed, europeans they were ready to agree but the u.s.
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denied and declined the deal between iran and the world powers. it took ten years until the u.s. came to a negotiation table and accepted to negotiate a deal based on nonproliferation treaty and p.t. the deal after 13 years, the international community has reached a deal. >> let me -- can i just -- can i just jump in real quick. i want to pick up on a point you were talking about it's a point that's brought up here in the u.s. i'm curious to get your thoughts from where you've sat in the past. do you think the iranian government would be prepared to broaden the scope of negotiations with the united states to include other aspects of concerns that this trump administration cited when they made their decisions, things like the ballistic missiles program and iranian involvement in the region? >> you remember the iranian supreme leader, the nuclear deal is a criteria for failed
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negotiation with the u.s. if the u.s. shows his sincereship for full implementation, correct implementation of the deal, then iran would trust and would be ready to go for failed negotiation. however, this experience practically has failed because when trump came to white house since day one he has played with the deal, he has imposed new sanction, he has threatened the deal, he has said this is the worst deal and he's trying to do everything to undo the deal, therefore how iranian they can trust such a president to continue on other issues, to continue to negotiate on other issues. if we're going to engage with the iranians on the other issues we should implement the deal already agreed. united nations security counsel
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sill has approved. after two years iran has fully complied with all its commitment within nuclear treaty, nuclear deal. the iaea eight times has confirmed full compliance of iran. >> okay. >> therefore, when a deal the there, iran is fully complied, if the u.s. is going to decline then there is no room for failed negotiation. >> mr. hussein, thank you very much. you've raised a lot of important questions. the very latest issue to put president trump at odds with the global community. the president through the international community into a tail spin when he announced the u.s. is pulling out of the paris climate agreement. trump has signed a number of executive orders threatening rights of immigrants and refugees and the president is pulling out of unesco. let's bring in our panel to break all this down for you. richard engle.
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ambassador nancy stautberg and mark dub wits. it's great to have all of you with us. ambassador, if i may begin with you, we're seeing the trump administration here really breaking out of this agreement, it is breaking out from its european ally over the iran issue. do you think the u.s. is at risk of isolating itself from the international community on this particular issue? >> no question about that and i think that's request consider the president did not fully pull out of the deal the way he did in the paris agreement, because he knows none of the allies that helped negotiate this deal will be with us. iran is in compliance within very narrow agreement which simply stopped his nuclear -- the nuclear program. it didn't address the terrorism or the ballistic missiles and i think -- were he to do this the right way, the iran deal is
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working let's see if we can expand the negotiations to include some of these other areas. by blowing this deal up, he's making further negotiations impossible. >> richard, the administration is keen on what they say is fixing the jcpoa by decertifying it. to some extent they've just made it a domestic issue, they've politicized it by kicking it over to congress and now saying to congress, you fix the problem. nothing has changed about the deal whatsoever. it's maybe put it on weaker legs but the deal is still the deal. >> yes. congratulations on your show. >> thank you. >> this is so important. foreign policy has never been more important. >> thank you. >> to get to your question. there is a political dimension. if president obama negotiated the sun coming up tomorrow, then president trump would want to negotiate the sun not coming up tomorrow. he's politicizing it. what's strange and disturbing, we're better off in an absolutely scientificway it's
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not even subjective. iran was a threshold nuclear state when secretary kerry and the state department started negotiating with them two years ago. their breakout period was a matter of weeks or even months. now, whether you dispute whether it's ten years, 15 or 20 years that's so much better than where they were before. it's politicized. he's made it into domestic issue. i would argue that by any objective standard we are so much better off with this deal than without it. >> mark, i'll give you a chance to weigh in on that. i know you're someone that's been very critical of the deal. this decision by president trump is the right decision and i want to give you a chance to explain why you think that is before we get into the some of the specifics. >> the nuclear deal itself because of restrictions that go way over time and those restriction start going away actually in about three years and start to really accelerate in about six to eight years, iran has patient pathways to nuclear weapons and icbms. none of us want a nuclear deal that's going to pave the way to
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nuclear weapon as well as iran that continues its destructive way. it was necessary to decertify this deal and begin to move forward with a more forceful policy to pushback against iranian regime behavior in the region, isrepression at home. i think we have an opportunity now to fix the deal and what i've been optimistic to see is the europeans actually moving their position for one of just keep it to one of fix it. i think all of us oppose the idea of nixing it. >> let me pick up on that point which is the issue that rick was talking about. is this now a domestic issue for the u.s. congress to deal with, because as we were saying nothing has changed about the deal, the u.s. is still very much in the deal, so now it's up to congress and there are already some divisions within congress because they've heard from secretary of defense jim mattis, they've heard from a long list of people from the administration saying the deal is working. why not just keep the deal and
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broaden the negotiations something the iranians have said they're willing to do to include things like ballistic missile and iran's involvement across the region. why decertify not just broaden the negotiations? >> secretary mattis and tillerson, there was a unanimous decision by the cabinet to recommend a decertification and all of them recognize that while the deal may be in the national security interest of the united states for now, and that we should keep the deal and not nix it for now -- >> but mattis said we should stay in the deal. >> stay in the deal but move forward with a strategy to fix the deal. it's not in the security of the united states to provide this iranian regime with patient pathways to nuclear weapons. all of the president's advisers recommended the strategy and i think it's more important to understand that the strategy is a broader strategy. it's not just decertification. it's a broader strategy to pushback against iranian aggression and to fix a deeply flawed nuclear deal that's going to pave the way to a north korean type mess in eight to ten years. none of us want that.
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>> let me pick up on north korea. why in the world would north koreans watching what is unfolding right now and seeing the united states decertify the iran deal see some people even trying to undermine it and do away with it, why would they be sneflize today come to the united states to talk about this? >> they won't be. first of all, it is not true that his entire team unanimously recommended pulling out of the iran deal. that is absolutely not true. they believed that the iran deal is in our interest and iran is complying with the narrow terms of the agreement and it is sure fantasy to think that this congress can fix the deal. it's a multi-national deal. we can't fix it unilaterally. so we're either going to blow the deal up and live with it and try to address some of these other issues. that's what the president is going to rapidly find out. this is a play to his base, again. all he does is play to his base and anything that obama did short of questioning whether osama bin laden is dead, this administration is going to try
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and do and its going to underminus with our allies this effort to walk away -- i think what the administration has decided to do is do a pinprick strike and that will trigger a very harsh response from that regime. we're on a crisis mode there very rapidly unless they veer from that plan. >> rick, let me ask you about the point that i was bringing up with north koreans. in terms of international diplomacy, does this undermine anyone wanting to deal with the united states? >> yes. >> you bring the people for two years and negotiate for longer and then you turn around and say this deal doesn't work to are us any more? >> president trump has single handedly turned the u.s. into something like a pariah state, getting out of tpp, reneging on this deal, getting out of the paris climate accord. now we're treated like a country like that people don't trust, like iran and this is all
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because of trump not being willing to certify, to agree to these international agreements that we basically hosted and negotiated. >> garch the track record of the u.s. congress on issues of health care, taxes and immigration, they haven't achieved anything yet. it's hard to imagine that they can't get their heads to agree on the iran -- >> this is really hard. >> absolutely. >> we have actually amended 200 agreements including arms control agreements. president obama walked away from a missile defense agreement with the czech republic and poland, president bush canceled the ballistic missile. the notion that this is unprecedented is fantasy. so let's keep it historical perspective as we evaluate the way forward. >> you need -- >> i'm sorry. we could be talking about this all hour long and we certainly will have a lot more conversations about the iran nuclear deal but we've run out of time. i appreciate all of you. thank you very much for joining us. >> my pleasure.
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much more still to come this hour, the flight for the soul of the gop. steve bannon versus mitch mcconnell. we'll break down who owns the party right now and attempt to make the harvey weinstein story a problem for democrats is that working? tonight at 7:00 p.m. be sure to turn into kasie d.c. stay with us. ver almost anything. even a swing set standoff. and we covered it, july first, twenty-fifteen. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ because she's listening this to audible.ughing
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>> bob corker, little bob corker, you're some politicians wan abbe on the quarter some day. bob corker could actually be on a karat. he could take a nap on a quarter. >> having some fund between the feud between president trump and bob corker. hours earlier steve bannon at one time one of the president's most trusted counselors in the
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white house actually went after fellow republicans and senate leader mitch mcconnell in more dramatic terms. take a look at this. >> whose going to be brutus to your julius caesar? yeah, the mitch, the donors are not happen. they've all left you. we've cut your oxygen off, mitch. okay? >> with me now to take a look at what bannon is called a war against the gop establishment. john walsh and christina greer as well as hugh hue wet host of weekday show on msnbc. you can also catch his msnbc show every saturday morning and david smith. great to have you with us. >> great to be here. >> let's talk a little bit about this feud that's taking place within the republican party.
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we know that president trump tomorrow expected to meet with mitch mcconnell, a meeting that has a lot of implications for the party. when you hear comments like steve bannon's yesterday where he's threatening to launch war against the gop establishment, does that undermine those types of meetings tomorrow. does it make it harder to find agreement or does it help trump? >> i don't think it helps trump. steve bannon is a really interesting figuring and he's always positiviting that he is the soul of trump. there is no soul. there is a man who stood up in a moment and embodied a grievance politics that steve bannon very much likes but i think when he pretends to speak for the president, he's just -- it's a big bluff and so -- trump could meet with mcconnell and make common cause. it's unlikely but i think this idea that bannon can turn the forces of trumpism against the
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establishment is kind of wishful thinking. >> david, long time gop senator, susan collins decided this past week that she's going to remain in the senate not run for governor as some had speculated. she's considered a moderate obviously. very critical of bannon today. take a listen. >> i think his rhetoric is exactly what the american people are tired of, they don't want this hyperpartisanship. mitch mcconnell is the senate majority leader, the president needs him. i'm glad that they're working together on tax reform and a lot of other issues and i'm glad that they're meeting this week. >> so, what's your take here? do you think republicans in congress more inclined to share susan collins' views or steve bannon's views? >> republicans in congress probably generally closer to susan collins, but we shouldn't forget that gravitational pull
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that steve bannon exerts, the candidate he puts up for these primary races won't necessarily win and last year i was in wisconsin and the mini trump there got hammered by paul ryan in a house race but nevertheless they do, you know, force candidates to reafraiz their policies, perhaps they drag them to the right in the same way that's on the democratic side. we saw sometimes bernie sanders pull hillary clinton to the left, so it's a deeply divided party and, you know, trump is one -- steve bannon is another one this thing seems to have a life of its own. >> in the past president trump has not been shy about attacking members of his own party. we have this tweet specifically about mitch mcconnell saying, can you believe that mitch mcconnell who has screamed repeal and replace for seven years couldn't get it done. must repeal and replace
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obamacare. do you consider that to be ancient history between them or is there bad blood between these two men? >> trump only cares about trump. the sooner the republican party figures that out the better off they'll be. donald trump only cares about his successes. he's built his whole brand on being a negotiator. he hasn't negotiated anything. he has almost zero legislative victories with his own party. he's a party of unified government, that means the republicans control the house, the senate and the presidency. >> sometimes you have to remind yourself of that. >> exactly. he's consistently abusive to all these members of his cabinet, the members of his party. at a certain point in time they will hopefully figure out that this man is about self-serving his ideas and interests and that means ditching them if it will serve him. if that means working with chuck and nancy, he'll do it. if it means working with bannon
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he'll do it. he has no moral center or compass. >> when it comes to people like, mocking senator corker, how does the president expect to find consensus when he goes after people like senator corker, obviously a powerful leader of the senate foreign relations committee, especially when the president just kicks things like the iran nuclear deal and the future of it to congress to get it done. does he not undermine his own objectives? >> self-interest heals all wounds. it's good to see you at night. i normally see you at 4:30 in the morning. >> you'll still see me then as well. >> you're now joining me as the only people that work night and day shift and kasie coming up. i was at the family value voters conference last thiet. i had a long chat way number of
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the people. there's a tendency for people not inside the conservative movement and the republican party to overestimate the depth or the division. i would simply say for benefit of historical comparison, take a look at the 1880 convention when the forces of grant known as the stall wurts against the forces of jane blayne of maine known as the half breeds were fighting each other in the aisles. the depth of partisan ranker over the years has crested and gone high, crested and gone low. right now it's a little bit higher than normal but mitch mcconnell has worked with the president to get justice gorsuch confirmed. they're working on tax reform. i tend to believe that those people who will are not inside the circus don't realize that everybody inside the circus gets along pretty well. >> hugh hewitt. thank you. let me ask you really quickly, joy, and switching gears. republicans obviously trying to
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make this a big issue for democrats. harvey weinstein a democratic donor, funded a lot of campaigns. have the democrats been successful in distancing themselves from harvey weinstein or have they mishandled that so far? >> i don't think it's a partisan issue. we have a man in the white house that has been coozed by 14 women of sexual harassment. this is an -- this is in every industry. we all know that it's endemic and i just don't see it as a partisan issue. i love the fact that folks at fox news are now attacking democrats for not doing enough to distance themselves. tucker carlson you're sitting in bill o'reilly chair. roger ailes built your establishment, we all know what those two men did. i think it's ridiculous to make this partisan and most people
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understand that. >> guys, thank you very much for joining us. another hot topic to break down for you. obamacare. president trump's recent efforts could deal a death blow to the affordable care act and later this hour, one of the world's most acclaimed artist takes on a immigrant crisis with a new documentary. what he has to say about president trump's approach to refugees. ry in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette. gillette - the best a man can get. ...there's something you to smay be missing. a key part of your wellness that you may be...
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>> it is not a bilateral agreement. it does not belong to any single country and it is not up to any single country to terminate it. >> i congratulations president trump for his courageous decision today. he boldly confronted iran's terrorist regime. >> people cannot trust any more the word of the united states. >> fast and times are furious. reaction from around the world to president trump's decision not to certify the iran nuclear deal which leads us to a new segment. we said, they said. a look at how the stories are
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making news here at home are being reported around the globe. we want to start with an op ed appearing in the national. a daily based expressing support for president trump just under the headline, it reads donald trump can see that the nuclear deal has failed to achieve its objectives, others must open their eyes before its too late. across the atlantic, the uk's guardian with this editorial. decertifying, full of sound and fu fury. >> headline writers had a lot to play with. trump saved the nuclear deal says one, illiterate dictator says another and this one he's just nagging. >> that's we said, they said this week and now to this. >> after issuing a series of executive orders designed to dismantle the affordable care act, president trump tweeted
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that the democrats obamacare is imploding. dems should call me to fix. you can't say its imploding when you're actively destroying it. godzilla never tweeted, tokyo is totally imploding right now. i alone can solve. so again, "saturday night live" doing its own reporting on health care. the president's move not only sets up a new showdown in congress, it's infuriating ohio republican governor john kasich. >> this whole issue is about people. it is not about politics, it is not about numbers. it's about people. and these congressmen that are willing to do nothing. i got to tell you including the democrats who once this last republican proposal died, they seemed to walk away from the table not want to give states flexibility. it's a shame on everybody and who gets hurt, people. >> let's bring in joan wallace
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again and hugh hewitt. here's senator susan collins today take a listen. >> these certainly are very disruptive moves that will result in smaller numbers of people of being insured that will making it more difficult for low income people to afford their out-of-pocket costs and that will destabilize the insurance markets. >> so hugh, i'm curious to get your thoughts as to why you think president trump wants to risk such a fight when we know that the repeal of obamacare is likely to return in a few months as said by republican leaders? >> i believe the president was rightly advised by the attorney general that the allocations, the subsidies to the insurance companies are simply unconstitutional and violation of the antideficiency act. there's already one federal appeals court ruling out there to that effect. what was going on was the
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unilateral transfer of money to the insurance company that's been contested for a long time. i understand susan collins is upset. she's a good senator but she and rand paul and john mccain and lisa murkowski saved obamacare from surgery, they kept it out of surgery and the president did what i believe he had to do which was comply with the constitution. presidents aren't allowed to just simply appropriate money and send it where they want. president obama thought he was but the courts have said otherwise. >> so, joan, from a democratic perspective, they could've certainly as well take this fight for the subsidies and possibly could do so to the point of a government shutdown. do you think they're willing to risk this? are they going to risk a government shutdown to defend and fight for these subsidies that are being withheld? >> they very well might. the supreme court had the ability to call this unconstitutional and they did not. >> i think that was more for the overall issue of the affordable care act. >> right. >> not these specific subsidies. >> the idea that this is
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unconstitutional, there's no court case pressing on president trump, there's nothing demanding this action except spite and desire to really, really hurt the affordable care act. but i just want to say, it is now trumpcare and nine out of the ten states most hurt by this move are red states that voted by donald trump. >> that's the most remarkable thing. a lot of red states that supported donald trump are going to be the most effective. could that haunt the president and his base? >> i just have to respectfully disagree. he didn't have take decision to make here. there's a federal appeals court saying that you may not do this. if you're going to be a rule of law president and get your nominees through. >> we have a lot of appeals court. >> i'll just finish. >> sure. >> if you believe in rule of law you have to go along with the idea that the subsidies are illegal. not the overall obamacare that was upheld by the 5-4 decision.
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nevertheless the subsidies themselves, this one aspect, the congress has it on their ability to appropriate that money, they ought to go and work with the president to appropriate that money. it's not the president's decision to appropriate it, it's the congress. they cut it off. now they have to put it back if they need it to go to the states. >> joan, quick response. >> i just think hugh with something this destabilizing for the american people, normally we have lots of appeals court decisions on lots of things, you wait for the supreme court decision. there's no reason to do this right now. i know you think he's suddenly become the constitutional president. i see no sign of this. this was a thing that he did with malice toward obamacare which is going to be malice against his own voters. >> let me switch gears quickly. rand paul played golf with the president and posted a photo on twitter not too long ago and defended the president's health care push. let's watch. >> excited about letting people
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buy across state lines. interesting thing about this is, half of the people in our country get their insurance through acrisa plans already, so amazon, pepsi, coke, microsoft, big companies all get their insurance across state lines now we'll let individuals get the same thing that we give to corporations. >> i understand the point and the argument you're making that this was perhaps because of a recommendation from the attorney general jeff sessions and legal concerns as a rule of law president. but is the president going to have a hard time finding republicans as enthusiastic as senator rand paul is now? >> yes, rand paul's a party of one. rand paul saved obamacare. obamacare would've gone under lindsey graham's and bill cassidy's program but for rand paul. earlier joan said it's trumpcare, it's rand paul. he got his executive order but i don't know in five years if the voters of kentucky will be happy with him.
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he frustrated the republicans. the president's got 48 votes but he needs two more. >> joan, really quickly, lindsey graham saying if the gop doesn't get the obamacare repeal effort, it will likely return in a few months. your take. >> i think it will. i think they've got to keep fighting for it through into the midterms. as more vulnerable senators in particular see what's going on, it's going to be harder to get those extra two or three votes that he was talking about. i think this is dead, although -- it's a zombie. it'll come back to life in some form. >> hugh, is it going to effect him in the midterm? >> yes. the republicans are a danger of losing the senate because jeff flake is in trouble from a far right challenge and we have trouble with dean heller in nevada. one other one go sideway. mac cass kill is in trouble in missouri, that's not where the issue is. i think the senate will stay republican. the house could flip and that is
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a problem. >> and we should emphasize what graham was saying this could also be the ends of mcconnell as we know it if they do not get these two issues done. we'll see you early tomorrow. >> see you. >> the kneeling protest goes global. we'll show you how one team in europe is expressing solidarity with protesting nfl players and harvey weinstein problems go beyond the u.s. as well. it now reaches europe for the disgraced movie mogul. you've thought about it,
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welcome back. time now for the global checkup. a look at stories that may have fallen through the cracks in the u.s. we'll start in somali. 230 people killed in the deadly attack ever in that nation. the government blaming alsha bob but the terrorist group not taking responsibility. fighters rejecting a warning
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from the forces. in spain, the back and forth over independence for catalonia continues. catalonias separatist leader charles faces critical decision. the spanish government has given him a deadline of monday on whether he did or did not declare independence this week. the harvey weinstein scandal has expanded past the united states. the uk investigating sexual harassment. france is considering whether to strip weinstein of his allegiance award. kneeling has gone viral. they took a kneel at home on saturday. a nod to the nfl protests that have drawn condemnation from president trump. and using a form the president should appreciate, the team also took to twitter to say that hurt the bsc stands for tolerance and
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responsibility. we'll see if president trump decides to weigh in on that. one of the world's most acclaimed artist and his profound new work traveling to 23 countries to create a new powerful film on the global refugee crisis. i'm going to talk to eye way way about the issue. >> i sense what germany is doing, it's at least to say is a stand on the right side of history. and what u.s. is doing is backwards. u.s. is an immigrant nation. this guy feels like he can take on anything. this guy isn't sure he can take it anymore. unwavering self-confidence. stuck in a 4-door sedan of sadness. upgrade your commute. ride with audible. dial star star audible on your smartphone to start listening today.
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if you have bad breath and your mouth lacks moisture, you may suffer from dry mouth. try biotène®, the #1 dentist recommended dry mouth brand. it's the only leading brand clinically proven to soothe, moisturize, and freshen breath. try biotène®. chinese artist an activist ai weiwei is international known for pushing the limits. now he has a documentary on the global refugee crisis entitled human flow. weiwei traveled to 23 different
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countries over the span of a year kron kelg the migration of different populations. [ speaking foreign language ] }) >> i spoke to him recently and asked if there was a specific theme that struck him when making this film. >> it's about humanity, you know. refugees among the 6.5 million people have been forcefully left their home. none of them are willing to leave their home. they have to go because there's a war, there's a famine and there is environmental change and so many different aspects.
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so what is behind them is all those people are hurt by inhuman conditions. after i met them, i realize every one of them just like you and me. there's no difference. we're all human beings. >> when you think of what the world knows, particularly the western world knows about refugees, what do you think is the biggest misunderstanding that the west has about refugees in the parts of the world that you traveled? >> i think the biggest misunderstanding in the west is about not gitreating refugees a human but as a security issue. to picture them with some kind of foreign or uncertainty, which is completely misinterpretation of the current situation. >> you've chosen as well to have art installations here in new york and installations that have
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certainly sparked conversation about refugees thisin this coun and we know the politics do not look favorably on refugees. you also live in germany that has taken a different approach towards refugees. how do you compare what germany is doing with what the u.s. is doing? >> i think what germany is doing, it's at least is to stand on the right side of history. what the u.s. is doing is backwards. u.s. is an immigration nation. every one of us comes from somewhere. many of them children of refugees, so by setting up this kind of policy to limit the numbers in such a small number and putting the walls in between the very few border lines the u.s. have and to point fingers to other side of the wall to
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think they are criminals or even worse, it's unthinkable. u.s. has been taking this as some kind of ideology. >> and so if things have not changed over these decades, what do you think it's going to take to change policy, governments, and people's perspectives? >> i think there's government. there's policies. but we are leaving in the age of globalization and the internet. so take individual efforts to take citizens consciousness to push the policymakers to make the right decision and the world needs action towards this situation. because the situation is not getting better. it's getting worse. >> let me ask you very personally about you. i know you that lived four years without a passport when you were in jail. you weren't able to travel but
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now you're able to travel to 23 countries. what was that personal experience for you? do you take for granted the fact that today you have the ability to travel on a moment's notice where these refugees and where you once yourself couldn't even move? >> my experience, growing up, my father was exiled. that teaches me we have to give our voice to the people that never have a voice. in art i do have some ability to make a film, make installation in new york city and to speak out, to really act on those issues. want just watching it. so i think that is responsibility. >> there's always some criticism about whether art goes too far in the way it expresses its views on poll titics or policie. you were criticized on recreating the image of the young boy who washed up on the
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shore there. does art ever go too far when it captures these moments or tries to push the envelope? >> so say art has gone too far is to say freedom of speech have gone too far. human have the ability and right to speak out. it's fine in any form as long as that form is a legal circumstance. so i don't think can limit form under expression. people only criticize it because the art is relevant. because it touches the issues normally people would avoid to talk about. >> all right. the documentary is human flats. great to have you here. thank you for your time. >> thank you. thank you so much. >> so that will do it for this hour. thank you for joining me. i'll be here every sunday night at 5:00 p.m. eastern. you can also reach me on social
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meed yach media. "meet the press" is up next come then the big debut. my colleague kasie hunt has a sit-down interview with paul ryan. she talked to him about a variety of issues including health care and of course the iran nuclear deal. i'm going to join her for part of that conversation and you should as well. of course that's coming up again at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. shave my a1c i'm always on call. an insulin that fits my schedule is key. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ (announcer) tresiba® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. don't use tresiba® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis,
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. this sunday, trying to undo the obama trying to -- >> that money is going to insurance companies to lift up their stock price. and that's not what i'm about. >> but many see this as an attempt to simply sabotage the affordable care act. >> obamacare is not perfect. but it doesn't mean you take it away and hurt people. >> on iran, the president threatens to end the nuclear deal. >> iran is not living up to the spirit of the deal. >> mr. trump taking aim at president

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