which starts right now. had a very nice conversation with the woman, with the wife who sounded like a lovely woman, did not say what the congresswoman said. and most people aren't too surprised to hear that. let her make her statement again and you'll find out. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." over the past ten months donald trump has distinguished himself as a president who is prone to, shall we say, dishonesty? and he tends to doubledown on the lies he tells when he gets caught. but this week donald trump did something truly extraordinary even for him. faced with an eyewitness account of his phone conversation with a gold star widow, a conversation that left the wife of a slain american soldier in tears, according to the people who were with her, a call in which donald trump reportedly told the wife of sergeant la david johnson that her husband knew what he signed up for when he joined the military and was deployed to niger where he and three other u.s. special forces soldiers were killed in an ambush.
trump also reportedly told the distraught widow who was pregnant with the couple's third child in what presumably was an attempt at sympathy with her loss, but i guess it hurts anyway. faced with the truth of that account by an african-american congresswoman from florida, representative fredica wilson, a long-time friend of sergeant johnson's family, who was riding in the car with the family to retrieve sergeant johnson's body, donald trump didn't lie saying he said he knew what he was getting into, but a man who himself was a gold star father, general kelly, went to the white house podium to also attack the congresswoman. and when general john kelly walked out to that microphone this week, he too did something extraordinary. after telling his own poignant story of the loss of his son who was killed in afghanistan in 2010, general kelly confirmed congresswoman wilson's account in the course of defending
trump's statement that sergeant johnson knew what he was getting into. but general kelly didn't stop there. having confirmed that donald trump said exactly what the congresswoman told the press he said, general kelly then went onto smear congresswoman wilson by telling this story about the dedication of an fbi building in her district in 2015. >> the congresswoman stood up and in the long tradition of empty barrels making the most noise stood up there in all of that and talked about how she was instrumental in getting the funding for that building. and how she took care of her constituents because she got the money and she just called up president obama and on that phone call he gave the money, the $20 million to build the building. she sat down. and we were stunned. >> that story like donald trump's denial that he told sergeant johnson's widow that he knew what he was getting into was false. and we now know it's false
because the event in question was taped. at a local paper the south sun-sentinel released the tape in full on friday which proves none of what general kelly said about the congresswoman who he referred to simply as an empty barrel without ever bothering to use her name, but none of that actually happened. on friday after a full day of the #ibelievefrederica trending, congresswoman wilson had this response to kelly's remarks. >> that's a lie. you know, i feel sorry for general kelly. he has my sympathy for the loss of his son. but he can't just go on tv and lie on me. >> meanwhile, this morning sergeant johnson is being laid to rest in south florida. and frederica wilson that started a program in 1993 that la david johnson and his brothers were part of who knew him and his brother since they were children and who was the principal of a school now named
for her that la david johnson's uncle graduated from and who was close enough to the family that she represents at congress that they wanted her to be in that car. she is at that funeral as we speak. while general kelly and his boss, donald trump, are still standing by their attacks on her. like i said, extraordinary. joining me now are msnbc military analyst, malcolm nance, sarah and, colonel jack, i want to start with you on this because, you know, donald trump likes to hide behind his generals. he likes to push them out front in order to give himself credibility. what do you make of general kelly's willingness to be used in that way this week and then to add this extraneous story that turns up not even to be true slamming the congresswoman. >> well, it's quite surprising because i know -- i don't know him very, very well, i'm not that close to him, but i know general kelly and have known him on and off for years. i'm quite surprised. it verifies what everybody knows
instinctively, and that's this add homonym attacks demean everybody. the person who is being attacked and the person who's making the attacks we're all much, much better off if we don't do any of this stuff. we stick to policy, getting things done and explaining to the american people what we're all about, the long range plans and what we're going to do and so on and bringing us together. attacks like this don't make any sense from anybody. >> should he apologize to her, do you think? >> if it were i, i would. i mean, i'd pick up the phone and say, look, this has gone far enough. i apologize. but that should have been the case from the very beginning when whatever is emanating from the white house was inaccurate as well. i can say this about donald trump, he's not real good at talking. so if you find yourself having dug a hole, finding yourself having dug a hole and you got to stop digging, if i were trump i
would have picked up the phone and said, look, that was my handed way of being sympathetic. i'm not good at that and i apologize. and all this stuff would have been over. and now we're going to be talking about this for a long time now because it demonstrates how even good people can get -- find themselves in an ever decreasing eddy, a whirlpool that's going down the drain. they should just stop it. >> yeah. and, you know, malcolm, when colonel jack jacobs refers to everything with what's em mating from the white house, this started with not a smear from not congresswoman wilson but from -- this is earlier in the week. >> earlier you said president obama never called the families of fallen soldiers. how can you make that -- >> i don't know if he did. i was told he didn't offer it and a lot of presidents don't.
they write letters. i do -- excuse me, peter, i do a combination of both. sometimes it's a very difficult thing to do, but i do a combination of both. president obama, i think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn't. i don't know. that's what i was told. >> and, malcolm, that's what i was told. that's usually an excuse donald trump uses to get out of things he's done. we now know from an exclusive report in roll call that e-mail exchanges from within the white house show senior white house aides were aware on the day the president made the statement that it was not accurate but they wanted to try to make it accurate as soon as possible given the gathering controversy. not only had the president not contacted virtually all the families of military personnel killed this year, the white house did not even know and have an up-to-date list of how many had been killed. so you have the white house staff scrambling to then try to make what they knew was false that donald trump said that his
predecessors never called but that he's called virtually everybody, they scrambled to make that true. so we know they knew that and donald trump all the rest of this has flowed from that. your thoughts. >> you know, this -- i understand that. i understand that the white house staff is scrambling. but right now i think today is the day that this controversy needs to stop. i'm a combat veteran. my military family was greatly distressed by the communications that went on this week starting with president trump's comment about president obama. and general kelly, god bless the guy, i mean, gave his son to this nation. i know how he feels. but, you know, as a senior nco, you know, i'm going to talk to him senior nco to general. right is right and wrong is wrong. and this needs to be set right. this is not a question of going after someone's integrity. it's a question of maintaining the integrity of this nation. general kelly needs to apologize to congresswoman wilson. and he needs to talk to the president and shut this thing
down. and from this point onward we need to honor these fallen soldiers. >> well, careen, it's not going to stop because donald trump got up bright and early this morning tweeting again attacking this side story, attacking congresswoman wilson. he tweeted, i hope the fake news media keeps talking about wacky congresswoman wilson in that she as a representative is killing the democrat party. so donald trump doesn't want it to end. and he doesn't want the discussion to be about the fact it took him 13 days to call the families of these four fallen soldiers. he wants it to be about congresswoman wilson. >> yeah, joy, for every trump controversy there seems to be a black woman that this administration wants to take down publicly, dehumanize and really just try to destroy. and it's incredibly dangerous, troubling and disgusting. you have april ryan, you have susan rice, you have jamele hill
and maxine waters and now frederica wilson. they're so afraid of powerful black women. that's how they cover up their controversy is by finding one they can take down. here's the thing when it comes to gold star family, that's not new either. look what he did when he launched his cam ppaign back in the summer of 2015, he went after john mccain, questioned the military service, went after the khan family right after receiving the nomination. and the person who's his chief of staff general john kelly when he was a general a year ago back in july of 2016 he attacked him and said that his fight against isis was bad, his record on fighting isis was bad. but here's the thing, this is an administration that has proven to be donald trump and his white house staff that they cannot complete a full sentence without lying. this is what they continue to
do. not only that, you have his aides, john kelly and sarah huckabee sanders thar, that com behind the podium that's supposed to be sacred. i worked in the white house. that is supposed to be incredibly sacred. and they are working, they are working for the people. not just the president but the people of this country. and all they do is give more lies to donald trump's lies. and then when they're caught in lying they double down on those lies. >> yeah. and, you know, sarah, you know, part of what kelly did was that he joined donald trump not only in his gratuitous attack against the congresswoman, but he too seemed to in a sideways manner attack the khans in his statement he made the other day. they're seeming to try to put his credibility because he is a general up against frederica wilson who is a witness, who was in the car. and yet the family, the gold star family, the grieving family of la david -- sergeant la david johnson confirmed, confirmed the account and said they did feel
disrespected by the president. so don't we now have a situation where a chief of staff to the president of the united states and the president are essentially calling a gold star family liars. >> this is just the biggest mess. and i think that i am in agreement with the majority of america that this is a week long scandal that should have never happened and the white house keeps making it worse. with sarah huckabee sanders saying that john kelly should not be questioned because he's a general, that's the antithesis of what america's supposed to be about. we have a long tradition of civilian control of the military for good reason. that protects our freedoms. and, you know, my gut feeling on all of this, i'm willing to give everybody involved the benefit of the doubt in their own chapter one. i think that these condolence calls must be extremely difficult to make. i'm sympathetic to the president that it may be tough to get the words out in the most eloquent way. but then fighting about this and tweeting and calling the congresswoman wacky and
escalating it, that's not okay. that is against the dignity that this grieving family deserves. and the people attacking representative wilson and say this was some sort of political scheme, she's been friends with the family for years. she's known sergeant johnson since he was a little boy. she had every right to be in that car. i just wish that she was concerned she contacted the white house instead of running to reporters. her comment this has made her look like a rock star. that made me feel really sad inside. you know, general kelly, he understands this family's pain. i think that he was trying to say that the reason the president said the thing he said was in the right spirit. but i don't know where he got this erroneous story about the fbi building funding. he should come out and apologize and correct this. i am just desperate for someone to be the bigger person and say i want to honor the family, i will say no more about this. i'm sorry for my part in escalating this.
i have betrayed the dignity of this grieving family, this american hero. i will say no more about it. i want someone to be the bigger person and say that and end this. and i think america is on the same page. >> well, i want to make one correction to what you said. the congresswoman didn't run out to reporters and tell this story. the white house apparently wanted reporters to meet them as the family was going to view the body of their loved one with the distraught widow in the car. the press was waiting for her when she got out of the car. they asked her what did the president say. i'm not sure if what people are asking is that she lied to the press, that she refused to answer their questions. she was asked what the president said and she told them what he said. general kelly confirmed what he said. if it's hard to get the words out to a grieving family, you know what, he ran for president of the united states, he must have known commander in chief is part of that job. president 44 of them have managed to get the words out in a way that didn't offend the family. i've never heard a family more
distraught after talking to the president than before. >> joy -- >> i want to say this quickly, you cannot debate a general, that essentially you're not allowed to debate john kelly because he's a general. we have a colonel at the table, what do you think of this? >> absolute nonsense. as a matter of fact, you're taught in the military that not only can you but you have the obligation to talk to higher level command every step of the way and tell them exactly what you think. and if you don't do that, your derelict in your duty. i'll add one other thing and it's about perception, appearance is reality. if you feel as if you have been received disrespect, then you have. it doesn't matter what the reality is. how you feel is the most important thing. if you feel that you've been treated without respect, then you're being treated without respect at the end of it. >> malcolm. >> one last thing, i want to put a point on this thing. today, at this funeral, at the end of that ceremony, an officer of the u.s. military is going to come with the flag to cover that
casket and say on behalf of a grateful nation we bring to you this flag as a token of our nation's honor. that should have been what that family received. that flag. and this whole ceremony is now besmirched by donald trump's comments. and it breaks my heart to say this, but this has got to be the end of this story. >> that will have to be the end of the segment. we are out of time. colonel jack jacobs, always good to see you. malcolm nance, karine, sarah, appreciate you all being here. appreciate the discussion. coming up, politics aside there are so many questions about what actually happened in niger. more on that next. patients thate that complain about dry mouth they feel that they have to drink a lot of water medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. i like to recommend biotene. it replenishes the moisture in your mouth. biotene definitely works! when it comes to strong bones, are you on the right path?
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on thursday we learned that the fbi has now joined the pentagon's investigation into why what was supposed to be a routine patrol ended in an ambush that killed four american soldiers in niger. including why it took nearly 48 hours to recover the body of sergeant la david johnson. joining me now is nbc news pentagon correspondent hans nichols. hans, let's pull back for a moment for those bewildered by the fact we have more than 600 troops in niger at all. why were they there? what were they doing? >> well, we have around 800 troops in niger, most of them are building a drone base further north in the country. you need to have drones or at least the pentagon wants to have drones, i should couch it that way, all across africa. there are about 100 that do something call train, advise and assist. here across all of africa elsewhere countries like the philippines as well is bpc, building partner capabilities, that is standing up local forces so they can do counterterrorism.
because at least in this part of west central africa you do have quite a few extremist groups running all the way up to the mediterranean in libya, which is pretty lawless, all the way down south to where there's some court -- port access as well. mostly training local forces. this mission publicly they're out there on what's called a key leader engagement, basically means going and talking to tribal leaders. what we know from our reporting, it's fast moving very difficult to get information out of africa right now, but what we know it looks like they may have been delayed by the tribal elders and that might have allowed the ambush to be sprung. we also know they didn't have directly overhead a drone monitoring them. that gives indication they did not think this mission was super high priority, it wasn't high risk. everyone inside the pentagon has said this was a, term they use quiet threat environment. so there are a lot of questions, fbi's investigating. we have several pentagon
investigations going on. here's one thing that's sort of confused, joy, our understanding of things. the "new york times" overnight popped a really interesting article by three well-respected reporters, one reporter in niger. they're saying that there are different accounts from the american special forces, these are green berets and the ni nigerian platoon with which they were serving. nigerian say they were going after potential suspected terrorist vehicles, u.s. force say, no, we merely observe them. so reconciling those two events and that's i think what the pentagon according to times is trying to do now reconciling those two accounts is going to be key to our understanding of what happened. >> very quickly before i let you go, hans, were the militants they were attempting to deal with boko haram? are they related to the bring back our girls situation? we've heard that conflated in this situation. >> yeah, the initial reports are no. and that's a different part of west africa.
so the initial report is it is an isis affiliated group. so this is in the far west -- northwest -- southwest of niger, but when you get up there part of the northern border it's an isis linked group. some accounts say it might have been an al qaeda linked group. here's the issue a lot of times isis gets -- because local fighters there want to affiliate themselves with isis. whether or not they have a direct command and control relationship with the caliphate, which has just collapsed in raqqah, you don't get a lot of fidelity from pentagon officials that they are actually people taking their orders from raqqah, from the isis caliphate. you do though have self-identified. and that's a concern because they are extremists, these are lawless places, joy. >> thank you very much for the clarity. thank you very much. really appreciate you. and now i want to bring in texas democratic represent mark veasey who is a member of the armed services committee. congressman, let's start with this question of what congress is being told and how many updates are coming to congress.
john mccain has been critical on the senate side of the information that is flowed to the relevant committees regarding this mission. do you feel you've been sufficiently briefed on what's going on in niger and on the deaths of these four men? >> no, i have not been sufficiently briefed at all. hopefully when we get back, you know, the house is out right now, the senate was in this week, the house is on congressional recess right now, we'll go back in on monday. so i'm expecting to be briefed as a member of the house armed services committee. and i've been raising this for a while, joy, that we need to be more focused about what's happening on the continent of africa. i mean, if you think about the fact that many of these islamist war fighters that are going to be leaving syria as they're pushed out of there, leaving yemen, they're going to want to go some place that's ungoverned where they won't be spotted, where they won't be noticed. and africa provides that cover
for them. so i've been raising this issue on house armed services for a while and very concerned about it. >> and congresswoman wilson has raised the concerns of the family on behalf of the family and as they are her constituents about the question of sergeant la david johnson and whether or not he was left behind. we know his body was found about a mile from the site where the others were. and there were a lot of questions about why he was found on his own. this is pentagon joint staff director kenneth mckenzie on thursday disputing the idea anyone was left behind during that mission, take a listen. >> no one was left behind. either u.s., our partner nigerian poforces or french fors were on the ground actively searching for this soldier. the search continued until he was found. we never left the battlefield and never stopped looking for him until he was found. >> does it concern you, sir, that sergeant johnson was found separated from the others? and do you feel that that answer you just heard is sufficient?
>> no. we have to find out why he was separated for 48 hours, how he ended up a mile away from where the initial battle took place. and those are the types of things that we need answers to. i don't think that he was obviously, you know, purposefully left behind at all. i've traveled with the army, with the armed services on the continent. i was just part of a group of members of congress that was in somalia back in august. and i know how serious the men and women that work on the continent take their mission and how every brother and sister they feel are a very important part of the unit. they would never purposefully leave them behind. as members of congress we have to find out exactly why it took 48 hours to find sergeant la david johnson and how he became separated because a mile is quite a bit of distance. >> yeah. >> considering that this was supposed to be a routine mission. >> yeah. and as a matter of fact to your
point about it being a routine mission, i want to play secretary -- defense secretary mattis on thursday talking about essentially that same point that it was -- the contact was considered unlikely with the enemy. take a listen. >> i would just tell you that in the specific case contact was considered unlikely. but there's a reason we have u.s. army soldiers there and not the peace corps, because we carry guns. >> the fact that this was considered a routine mission, what would you want answered in terms of why something that should have been routine turned deadly for four american troops? >> the first thing that i would want to know is does the armed services have the resources that they need from an intelligence, from a reconnaissance standpoint to be able to conduct these missions reliablely. one of the things general said in charge of africom back in may was that the military's only about 20% to 30% at what they
need to perform certain aspects of this particular mission. and so i would want to know do they have the resources that they need. and, again, there are a lot of opticals and a lot of challenges dealing with dialect, dealing with ungoverned spaces. that's the other important piece of this, joy, is that the fact we need to be helping them from a military standpoint, but i would imagine that this particular part of niger that was close to mali that was probably ungoverned and that some of these islamist forces may be providing services that the government is not providing. and so we need to make sure that we can also help them with governance. i cannot stress to you how important this governance piece is away from this as we try to move away from a long-term military commitment to this area. >> sure. very quickly before i let you go, your colleagues on the other
side of the aisle, thinking about people like trey gowdy, held many, many, many hearings when we lost americans in benghazi. not that these are the same, obviously each situation is different, do you see among your colleagues in the republican party any interest in holding the same intensity of hearings regarding this situation in niger? >> oh, it would be a shame if they did not. i mean, obviously this was a very tragic situation, a situation that should not have happened. and if they don't pursue this with the same intensity, the same passion, i think the week in question what their motives were in dealing with benghazi. >> indeed. congressman marc veasey, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> coming up, latest on the russia gate investigation. stay with us. ♪
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america's experienced a sustained attempt by a hostile power to feed and exploit our country's divisions. according to our intelligence services the russian government has made a project of turning americans against each other. >> boy, when george w. bush becomes the voice of reason, you know things are not good. the russia investigation into the interference of that country in our election continue to pick up the pace this week sighted on the hill over the last few days, loretta lynch, former trump campaign manager corey lewandowski and the firm that commissioned the famous dossier. joining me political correspondent for business insider and sarah, journalist and collar of authoritarian states. natasha, right to you. you had a report this week about a new memo which suggests that a
russian lawyer, the lawyer that was in that trump tower meeting, was acting as an agent of the kremlin. please explain. >> so this memo that natalia veselnistkaya brought with her to trump tower for that meeting last june was strikingly similar to a memo that the russian prosecutor, the chief russian prosecutor's office had written previous in about two months previously and had actually given to u.s. congressman roerbach to go on campaign to repeal the magnitsky act. months later snemveselnistkaya s up but has essentially the same talking points as the russian government. >> so your reporting indicates there was some contact there. so, you know, does that mean that these subject of the meeting, that don jr. said was just about adoption may have been specifically a meeting to trade the magnitsky act for dirt on hillary clinton?
>> it's certainly possible. a couple weeks before natalia veselnistkaya went to this meeting, she apparently did meet with a number of very well connected russian officials. and she then -- then they organized this meeting with the trump campaign. and she went in there with these talking points, essentially to argue for the repeal of these very high level sanctions on these russian officials. whether or not there was some kind of, you know, quid pro quo that occurred, that's something that the investigators will have to figure out. >> and sarah, if you could reiterate for our audience why the magnitsky act keeps coming up and why it is so -- such a big deal to vladimir putin. >> it's a big deal because of both the economic repercussions of the sanctions that are passed because of it and because it sheds a spotlight on human rights violations that putin's administration has done that he doesn't want attention to, both within russia and also internationally. putin is connected, you know, to a brigade of oligarchs. there's kind of a loose boundary between the kremlin and, you
know, russian businessmen who participate in unsavory activities. and so by passing this act it's a real way, you know, to hit them where it hurts, which is economically. >> absolutely. so, nick, if you were robert mueller, if you were the prosecutor here, this name dana rorbacher keeps coming up, folks will remember he had recent meeting in london in the hideout where julian assange is along with a white nationalist blogger which made it sort of interesting. he keeps coming up as somebody who's opposed to the magnitsky act who seems to want to repeal sanctions. would you want to interview him if you were mueller? >> no question about it i'd absolutely want to interview him. this whole thing really has to come down from the russian government. if you look at the june 3rd e-mail from ron goldstein to don jr., he says in that e-mail that the russian government is backing donald trump and that this is part of their effort to get him elected. that's why this lawyer shows up
at trump tower with documents. so there's no question about it this magnitsky act is an extremely important hot button. it's not just about adoption. it really has to do with the russian government being an organized crime organization where magnitsky's boss, bill brower, found out that the russian government had ripped off the government to the tune of $250 million by putting in a phony tax claim that they should never have had. broer blew the whistle on that, magnitsky was involved as a lawyer doing the same thing, and he was the only one that did not get out of russia at the time. >> yes. >> so he was thrown into jail, tortured for a year. it involved not only the russian government but it involved the lawyers that were involved. it involved the courts in russia.
these are people that are just part of what is an organized crime organization. and this lawyer was part of that organization. i would say she was probably the organization that showed up in new york to take care of this matter for the russian government. >> the other piece of this of course that the american people want to know is if there was this sort of conspiracy, then how far did russia go? what were they able to accomplish? i want to play for you all mike pompeo who is the cia director saying some interesting things that ended up being -- by his own agency. this is mike pompeo on thursday. >> yes, the intelligence community's assessment is that the russian meddling that took place did not affect the outcome of the election. >> so nbc news then put out a piece and we have a piece essentially that's been refuted. the cia quickly put out a statement clarifying pompeo's
remarks, has not changed and the director did not intend to suggest that it had. sarah, what do you make of this attempt by mike pompeo who is most recently a member of congress to try to say definitively, no, no, there was no actual change to the outcome of the election. >> yeah, it's an unsupportable claim because nobody's actually done a thorough investigation into whether the outcome of the election was affected by this. we certainly have a lot of evidence that russia's tried to impact the outcome of the election whether through propaganda, whether through financial deals, you know, through the various interactions between kremlin officials, russian businessmen and the trump campaign that have been documented for years. but there hasn't really been a conclusive examination. so for him to make that claim is to basically push the spotlight away from that issue. and that is two problems. first, we don't know
conclusively what happened in 2016, but most importantly we don't know what they're going to do in 2018. this issue has not gone away. so it's incredibly important to find out what the vulnerabilities are to our electoral system and make sure that these elections are conducted with integrity and removal from foreign interference. >> yeah, regardless of whatever they were able to find legally, you would think that would be a priority for the federal government. i'm not sure it is for this one. nick, natasha, sarah, thank you all very much. coming up in our next hour, the # metoo movement and the police and government's very different treatment from white supremacists. more "a.m. joy" after this. whoooo.
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their leadership is instinctive. they're experts in things you haven't heard of - researchers of technologies that one day, you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans. we call them our team. coming up, gretchen carlson goes public with her story of pervasive sexual harassment at fox news. she joins me live next. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall.
more and more women and men are speaking out against sexual misconduct in the wake of the harvey weinstein scandal. among the first to tell her story of harassment was former fox news anchor gretchen carlson who went public with sexual harassment allegations against roger ailes last july. joining me now is gretchen carlson, author of "be fierce, stop harassment and take your power back." thank you very much for being here. great to meet you. >> thanks for having me. >> of course. you wrote this book. you open very strongly. i will read the name of the first title, but you talk about and you encapsulate some of the reactions to you when you were really the first high profile woman to come forward with allegations of sexual harassment at fox against roger ailes.
and the attacks seemed to be about a sense that you had betrayed the cause, that you had betrayed the conservative cause that didn't even seem to take into account what you might have gone through. how difficult and complicated is it to take forward when the attacks on you are not just about what happened to you ? >> coming forward with something like this is an excruciating choice for women. you will be attacked like that from our culture that doesn't fully understand sexual harassment yet and all the myths. you going to be targeted by your company. >> it's not something you decide to do overnight. courage is a building process. one of the things i like to talk about in the book is how we can give that gift of courage to young people so at least they have the foundation. >> we talked about the issues of sexual harassment in the
workplace. if you're at the lowest possible level and this is happening to you, you don't feel you have any power at all. how important is it for somebody with stature to lead on it or at least be there to say listen i've got your back? did someone have your back when you came forward? >> it's one of the biggest problems is you don't feel comfortable telling anyone else what's happening to you. in my book i actually have a play book for women of any age, 12-point plan. please tell at least two trusted colleagues so you have witnesses when you do come forward. we're still in the he said-she said culture. for young people i think the biggest message, joy, is we have to make sure we empower them to speak up, because collectively we can make so much of a bigger difference than just one person. look what's happening with the me too hashtag. we're turning the shame from the
victim and putting it where it belongs on the harassers. >> the me too hashtag was started bay black woman who started it when she was hearing the sfor tory as a camp counsel and realizing she had the same issue but she diplomat even feel comfortable speaking up. in your book, you talk about things like have your eyes wide open, know your rights, document the problem, take offense at what's happening to you, tell people you trust, tape the interactions if you can, know the policies at your workplace, make it official, file a complaint, avoid traps, document any retaliation, go legal, secure your rights a s to sue ae the change. >> people want the salacious details. people can go online and find my complaint and read those details. but the undersold story is what happens to women after coming
forward. look at the harvey weinstein situation, 30 years potentially of allegations of harassment and abuse. that doesn't happen without people helping you, enablers cover up and help shut up the victim. call an attorney, even just for ten minutes to figure out if you have a case and what the landscape is before you go and file a complaint. but the other big message here is we need to turn enablers and bystanders into allies. most of that is done by encouraging men to join our fight. most men out there want to have a safe work environment for women. >> at the same time, and this is something that i hear a lot from young women, we live in a culture now that has repeatedly elevated abusive men, men who are openly abusive, who brag about grabbing women's genitals, to the presidency of the united states, men who are repeatedly
accused abusers at fox news at the highest echelons in the highest paid jobs, running the country. harvey weinstein running a hugely powerful company that can make stars. in all of these cases, this society is elevating abusive men. how can we create a culture where those kind of men can't get to those levels and where they are actually stopped before they're able to abuse dozens of women? >> with regard to the access hollywood tape with president trump, i took that as a teaching moment for my children and i played that tape for my 12 and 14-year-old children because i wanted them to know how you don't treat a human being. for me human decency superceded any politics. with this movement, we're going to make change. this is the tipping point. >> tell me about what you're doing. >> i set up a fund to fans nine
city tour now, the gretchen carlson initiative for underprivileged women who didn't have the resources to come forward or hire lawyers. you can go to it for free. aitogether.org to sign up. >> so great to meet you. up next, the week of hashtag me too. anquish you to another dimension! ok, guys, hear me out. switching to geico could save you... hundreds on car insurance. huh, he does make a point... i do like to save money... catch you on the flip, suckas! geico. because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance is always a great answer.
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(laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. introducing the all-new crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. this week the hashtag me too proliferated on social media as millions of women shared their stories of surviving sexual assault and harassment against the allegations against disgraced movie mogul harvey wine teen. now, the movement she launched to help women and girls of color
who survived sexual abuse is also raising awareness about the ubiquity of the problem. survivors are often quite young, often members of marginalized communities. now in the wake of weinstein, women whose names and faces we all recognize are speaking up. yesterday lieu pupita nyong'o a her voice, sharing her story with weinstein. women from the olympic gymnastics teams have accused of dr. larry nasser of abuse.
i'm going to start here at the table. it seems when situations like this happen either with fox news roger ailes, bill o'reilly or weinstein or donald trump, the original sort of story becomes a deluge and people feel empowered to come forward. talk a little bit about that. >> sure. i think on one hand we could think about this definitely as a watershed moment or a tipping point. but what we see is it requires almost an avalanche of women coming forward. we actually don't believe one woman or two women's testimony. it fakes fetakes fearless repor well as a community of women saying this has happened to them over and over again. the flip side is a number of men have all expressed sympathy with these women. but the other side of that is that they actually benefitted from their own silence.
for the structure to change as opposed to just having this moment in which we believe these women's stories, to prevent this means that we have to understand how male complicity not only hurts these women, but also gives men wonderful opportunities to succeed in an industry that's male dominated. there's two sides to this. until that changes to equal pay and equal opportunities, the law of hollywood and the law of the land, we're going to see more and more of this happening. it's going to require such numbers of women to come forward. >> that is what's sort of shame fu ful really. with trump you've had at least 15 accusers come forward. he got elected president of the united states after bragging about sexual assaulting women and walking in on naked teenage girls. bill o'reilly there was that
loofa tape that came out and he still remained on the air. >> people still believe that positive i bill cosby is innocent. there's still people that attack you for criticizing positive ii. there are still millions of americans that believe donald trump is innocent despite him saying it himself on a tape that we all heard as a nation. there is something wrong and sick in our culture and society that enables this behavior. there are a lot of people trying to make that specifically about harvey weinstein. >> sure. >> this is not just about harvey weinstein. there are tons of harvey weinsteins in every industry in this country. donald trump is a harvey weinstein. we have a harvey weinstein in the highest office of the land. we have to be careful that we don't let this become about one
man and one situation. we have to recognize it as the systemic issue as it is. >> the head of amazon studios roy price had to resign because of allegations. the editorial director at vox.com had to resign because of these allegations. this usa gymnastics story, let me read you the statement from usa gymnastics. it says usa gymnastics admires the courage of those who have come forward to share their personal experiences with sexual abuse. because of their strength, predators can be held accountable by their actions. we're sorry that any athlete has been harmed during his or her gymnastics career. he's expected to take a plea on child porn charges, this dr. nasser. he's awaiting two trials alleging he abused a patient and
a family friend. you think about the fact that you have men who are operating openly flagrantly abusively and not even afraid of being caught. you know, what is that about? not that we're going to make your speak for all men here, but these men don't even seem to be afraid they'll be caught. >> it's the splcomplicity of me. it was a great tweet, why is it every single woman knows someone who can say me too and men act like this is shocking to them. men observe this behavior and laugh along with it and talk to the woman later on and say, gosh, i really thought that was bad. really this is -- the behavior of weinstein, bill clinton, donald trump, bill cosby, behavior of men, everything from the president of the united states down to the night manager who sexually harasses a 14 girl at mcdonalds, there are men at
every single step of these levels of harassment that don't say anything and then want to get on social media and say how bad they feel. it's the responsibility of men to hold other men accountable. it doesn't take a ton of people to engage in this behavior, but it does take a ton of people to let the few who do get away with it. >> you did have during the campaign the accusers of bill clinton are brought out to sort of shame him. but there's a rush to believe on your own partisan side but not believe on the other side. the gretchen carlson book opens with her being attacked by people on the right who essentially saw her as a traitor to the conservative cause for telling her truth about roger ailes. what do you make of this idea that people are now literally using a partisan lens to decide which woman they want to belief?
>> the ethical position is that partisan politics shouldn't come into play, because these stories are not about politics. they're about power. they happen when the abuser is in a position of power and he's able to make his victim feel like she doesn't have power and she's alone. people talk about social media and its drawbacks all the time. but this is one of those things where like the issues with bullying, the more people that are coming forward, this is sending a message especially to young girls that if you're in the situation, you're not alone, you're not the only one that it's happening to. on a less scandalous kind of level i've been in situations with campaigns and groups before where they were slow to pay and you don't want to be difficult, so you keep it quiet and hope you can resolve it. you can't file a lawsuit. you don't want to be the troublemaker. it's the same thing with these sexual harassment and abuse
situations. they're very scared about being labeled a troublemaker and difficult to work with. but the more people that are coming forward, it makes it easier and makes it more likely that someone will have the courage to find some help and get some good advice and find a path forward. >> the other thing we've seen is a little creep of respectability politics come in. may mayim bialik apologizes for essentially saying that modest dress and the way you carry yourself would prevent these things from happening. talk a little bit about that and what responsibility we have to like negate the respectability politics in whether we believe these women. >> yes, joy. it's incredibly problematic. as someone who's raising a young girl, that is the wrong message to be sending to any young woman as they're growing up.
it is not their fault at all. the responsibility and the onus is on the man. i think the interesting thing we're see right now with the harvey weinstein story is there are tangible results for what he's done, which we don't formally see. and just almost a year ago we elected donald trump, who we know is a sexual assaulter. and people still believed him and elected him. the thing that is even crazier than that is he now sits behind the resolute desk in the oval office essentially defecating on women, signing executive orders taking away rights from women. now with harvey weinstein's story and the other men in the different industries, we're actually seeing some results because of the avalanche, because women are coming out and speaking. with that we need to send the right message to our young people and say it's okay, you
can be who you are, you don't need to change who you are and it's okay to speak out, we have your back. >> you're getting an amen here. >> i just wanted to say in 2014 we had a similar moment around college sexual assault. time magazine -- in the current administration we see a rescinding of many of the guidelines that obama presented and that colleges had to adhere to. i just want to make sure as this moment is happening that we are anticipating the kind of push back and consolidation around male power and privilege that's probably going to happen at the same time that women feel more comfortable coming forward. >> public school. arou because the rolling stones story happened and didn't pan out, we walked away from that whole opportunity because you started to once again have that allegation that women are making these stories up. >> you raised a very good point about equal pay.
we need to look at the relationship between all of these things. there are so many messages brought about through policy and advocacy in our culture that makes an environment where you don't really feel comfortable coming forward. we don't have equal pay in this country. by definition we're telling women you are not equally valued in this society. that makeswoman less likely to come forward. there are people that want to take away our reproductive health care rights. these are all things that contribute to a society that devalues women and contributes to a system that devalues women. >> absolutely. it's not a coincidence that the person who was empowered to be the first to come forward at fox was gretchen carlson, who is a higher paid person. women don't necessarily have the economic wherewithal to take that chance. >> right.
it's how empowered you are, it's who you are, it's whether people believe you. this is really key, how far we go with harvey weinstein. sexual predators are like roaches. you don't just fine one. it's like jarred with subway. it wasn't just him. it was somebody else on staff. the key lesson is not stopping with harvey weinstein but going down the list of men and sometimes women who are complicit in this behavior. above and beyond the abuse of women we also have to look at these larger questions about the abuse of young people in general. when i think of corey feldman coming out and saying, hey, i've been talking about this for 30 years. there's an entire culture here that says women and children's voices are not to be heard if they're being sexually abused. i hope that's a part of the future narrative. >> we're in a week where we just
had the chief of staff to the president of the united states saying why can't we just go back to the time when women were held sacred, sort of pining for the 1950s. a woman couldn't even open up a bank account. you have this message coming out of the white house that devalues women on the one hand and go back to the 1950s conception. >> i don't hold donald trump as any kind of example of chivalry. it's people who were viewing women as objects and toys and not as people deserving of individual dignity. i do think again one of the good things to come out of all of this is there is a very loud uprising. people are seeing this is a wide problem across all sides of the
aisle, all industries and the good people vastly out number the bad. the majority of people know this is wrong. the awareness of it i do think is going to make it a little easier for people to start being aware of it. the ability of americans to do good when they all get together -- look what happened in gainesville, florida this week. richard spencer had international press giving him attention and the best he could do is get 30 or 40 dorks to show up and the entire city shouted him down. a it was awesome. >> by the way, he's not sure women should have the right to vote. you worked in the white house. part of what happens is policy that flows from on high that tries to address it. what we have coming out of this administration is policy that's attempting to take away birth control, take away reproductive rights. it's an interesting time from a policy standpoint.
>> it really is. and also make sure there is no equal pay for women. that's coming straight out of the white house and the oval office. it brings me back to almost a year ago. there is a systemic problem we're having here which is in 2016 we had the opportunity to elect the first women president. and what i remember hearing in focus groups was that from women and men that this country could not be run by a woman. a woman could not be president. and so there is a problem that we have that women aren't seen as a figure that could hold the higher office by many folks here. >> i heard that from women even in 2008, from women saying a woman shouldn't be president. >> we see who voted for donald trump. a majority of white women voted for donald trump. so to say that this is does not play a role -- i do think some
women obviously are contributing to this issue. it isn't just the complicity of men. it is the complicity of women. when i had something happen to me when i worked in government, i went to my woman boss who told me to leave it alone. i could tell countless examples of those types of things occurring. but we have women who were internalized the misogyny. these messages sent to women by policy choices, by the structure, the notion that those messages don't have an impact, the notion that these things don't play a role is just a false notion. if you can't pay a woman equally for the same job as a man, then how do you expect to create equality in any other sense? >> give us a solution here. what do we do about it then? >> we've already talked about equal pay in hollywood. all women aren't created equal in america.
it was important for lupita nyong'o to share her story. we see not just mixed messages from the white house in terms of going back to an earlier era but what's going on right now with kelly and congressman wilson. you should trust black women's stories with evidence but also just the inclination to smear them so quickly, i think, is part of the problem as well. >> in addition to the mash tag me too, the hashtag i believe fredericka trended pretty heavily too. that's a step in the right direction. what a great panel. up next, in the trump/sessions era, not all crime is created equal. stay with us.
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we have a crime problem. we will deploy the talents and abilities of the department of justice in the most effective way possible to confront this rise in crime. >> when donald trump and his attorney general jeff sessions promised to reduce crime in america, they apparently had a very limited meeting and a specific set of targets in mind. take law enforcement's apparent lack of interest in one group at the center of the violence in charlottesville in august. prop a group of people who spent weeks training for one goal, they've attacked people in at least four cities so far. pro publica says the group does
not seem to be the target of any police investigation. there is another group of americans the fbi has targeted for investigation. according to an fbi report that foreign policy made public, the fbi's counter terrorism division has created a term, black identity extremists to describe people they believe pose a threat to police, because of perceptions of police brutality against african-americans. joining me now is the staff reporter who wrote that report. who are these white supremacist groups and why don't police have any interest in arresting them? >> the rise above movement is a group of more that 50 young men, most of them are under 30 and they're spread across southern california, san diego up to los angeles. they train on the weekends at various parks around southern california. their mission is to advance a
white supremacist nazi ideology. >> you have people who show up in places like charlottesville and don't seem to attract any attention by police. you interviewed a couple of the men who finally were arrested but only after they shot at counter protesters during this latest richard spencer appearance at the university of florida. literally fired shots at ant anti-fascist protesters. >> when we were in charlottesville, my colleague kareem hodge and i documented two members of the rise above movement. they were attacking multiple
women who were counter protesters, beating them, choking them. we have pictures and videos of this. we went to the police at that time and said, hey, this just happened. you guys were standing there. you didn't do anything. are you going to do anything? they didn't want to talk. they did nothing. they allowed this to happen. one of the other people in charlottesville and involved in all that mayhem that basically happened without any police interzenvention was a man named tyler tenbrink. i interviewed him. he'd been in those brawls. he said i hate the leftists. they're evil. they'redegenerates to our country. i'm fighting for western society and my children. fast forward to this week, he shows up in florida at the richard spencer event. and according to police, opens fire on counter protesters with a handgun.
so that's the kind of folks we're talking about. you know, as far as i can tell, tyler tenbrink was another person who was likely known to law enforcement, but there was no action being taken against him. >> and patrice, the irony of course is here you have the fbi inventing something they call black identity extremists. the internal document that was made public on august 3rd. the aclu has now demanded information about fbi surveillance of black activists. they essentially took it to mean that their idea of black identity extremists means black lives matter. what do you make of the idea that the federal government is targeting black lives matter and calling black lives matter extremists but law enforcement having no interest in arresting white supremacists. >> i think it's deeply unfortunate that we are living in a moment that the fbi is
deciding to target black activists who have essentially held a peaceful movement for the last four years. i think what the fbi should be focusing on are these white nationalist groups,these alt right groups who have not just killed. they've brutalized, they're harmed and they spew hate across this country. i think it's a waste of resources to be pivoting toward black activists. and we've seen this before. this we have to fight it and make noise about stopping it. >> one of the ironies here is that when activists which included black lives matter activists were marching in charlottesville, we were even hearing back reports that the police were just standing around. do you feel that police are offering enough protection to black lives matter or do you get
the sense that black lives matter is seen as the threat? >> black people are overpoliced, over incarcerated without being activists. when you add the activist on top of that, we are being surveilled, we are being criminalized for our activism and we are being targeted by local law enforcement and we're being targeted now by the federal government. and i think that's a shame, especially when we see people like in las vegas, the white domestic terrorists who killed over 60 people. this government is focusing on the wrong group of people. >> yeah. i recommend everyone go back and read a.c. thompson's chilling report in propubly ka. thank you all very much. >> thank you. coming up, it's been a month since hurricanes irma and maria
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between one and ten, how would you grade the white house response so far? >> i'd say it was a ten. we have provided so much so fast. we were actually there before the storm hit. i would give a ten. and yet i think our response was better than anyone has ever seen. >> wow. just over a month since hurricane maria made landfall in puerto rico, more than 4 in 5 homes have no power and almost 3 in 10 lack clean drinking water. congressman, the administration has given themselves a 10 out of 10. you're there on the ground. what grade would you give them?
>> look, i just came from visiting communities that have been destroyed. i mean, really, joy, babies living in tents designed for going out maybe camping a couple of days, senior citizens without oxygen in their tank. i went out with the majority leader of the puerto rico senate and i got to tell you something, it's really cruel, it's really cruel, inhumane kind of treatment. i met this gorgeous little caribbean princess, 13 years old. you know where she's living? in a stable where horses were once attended to. that's the kind of desperation. remember, there are hundreds of thousands of people homeless, probably 700,000 who are homes thor uninhabitable with no roofs, completely destroyed. they haven't left the yielislan.
they're with neighbors or friends just barely surviving. three and four families living in the same home. >> let's go to water and the medical attention. one of the most disturbing stories we heard this week is not only bottled water being wasted and thrown away but also people using super fund water. >> look, joy, people are desperate and people want to survive. it's a basic human instinct.e w mountainside and they're drinking it. everywhere we went people said where is fema. they have not seen any first responders yet. remember, on this island again there are only 320 fema
inspectors that are expected to inspect over half a million homes. how can that be? the help isn't getting there. so once again i do want to say this because i think it's important. everybody said thank you to the american people. everybody said -- and every leader, every elected leader said we are receiving more from the american people than the american government that they elected and they want to say thank you to you because you're coming through very strong in this time of need. >> the other issue we heard think about week that was disturbing is the 70,000 metric ton hospital ship that could hold roughly 800 is almost empty, that there are not a lot of people on that ship. what is going on with that? >> here's what i believe is going on with. there just isn't the heart and compassion to understand that in
the mountainsides of puerto rico there's an extreme need. there are people that are sick. the elderly, the infirm, they are in every society before a hurricane. they exist today and their lives are at peril. when you see that ship empty, remember at some point these generators that i can hear running all around me at the hospitals, they're going to run out too. then what kind of crisis are we going to have? you need to bring and get this electrical grid back up and get the water flowing to people. and we have the resources. we should have brought them to bear already. >> my god. thank you so much. we really appreciate all you're doing. thank you. just miles from puerto rico the u.s. virgin islands faces a slow recovery of its own. much of the islands lost power and the entire territory is on curfew. a small often forgotten community of american citizens
coming together under the most trying of circumstances. i visited the only medical center serving the islands of st. thomas and st. john. i found its staff responding with incredible grace under pressure, putting the needs of their community above their own. take a look. >> it was like a tornado indiana side this area and the staff -- everyone took a patient, put them on a mattress, a person to each end and we slide them down the stairs on a mattress, quickly, because we did know know if the rest of the unit was going to be compromised. they slide the patients down to the delivery unit. at the same time we have patients that were actively in labor and we were delivering babies at the same time. >> wow. we see all these wires here. is this telephone wire? what is this? >> this is just about
everything. this is electrical, communication, data, the whole nine yards. >> all of this is falling while you're trying to move patients. >> i think we had about 20 wheelchairs lined up here to evacuate. the decision was made because we felt the window was unsafe. we shut off that door and evacuated horizontally. >> this is the only hospital, right? this is it. >> this is the only hospital serving st. john and st. thomas. >> you're getting essentially patients from all over st. john and st. thomas here? >> yes, including some of the islands close by. >> what capacity would you saw you're at right now? >> probably 20-25% capacity. >> you guys have been operating 24/7 all of these days. have you had a break?
>> the reason i have been in this building since the night of september 5th. >> and you guys have not left? >> no. >> leave for a couple of hours and come back because of the challenges. >> we were talking about the sound, just what you hear for those who have never ridden out a hurricane. you talked a little bit about that hinge shaking and that's what people are hearing. >> you're hearing that in here. when you're outside it almost sounds like a freight train that's coming. >> some people describe it as a howling sound. when you ask me to describe it, it evokes so much emotion. sorry. >> that's okay. >> it evokes so much emotion because when you're going through and you're busy, your thoughts are just safety and the safety of others. but when you think about it, it is so surreal. the sound is just something you just want to forget. >> you're a volunteer. you had a lot of people just coming from one hurricane zone to the other. how long do you expect to be here?
>> another five days. >> what happens when volunteers leave? >> you know, i don't know. and that really is the hard part, because i don't know. >> in terms of the work that you've done working in emergency medicine, have you ever seen anything like this? >> no. i mean, hats off to what they have done and really it is -- given this is not geared to staff a lot -- it's not staffed to deal with the volume most of the time. they tend to be quieter. but also staffing people who are emotionally -- you can run on adrenaline for a little while. but when you come off that, that's where we're catching them. they're exhausted. >> despite all of that, the resiliency of the people here in the virgin islands is incredible. >> it's unbelievable. these people's spirits are just -- you cannot break them. >> the governor of the u.s. virgin islands the joins me now by phone.
governor, thank you so much for being here. when we were there on the ground in st. thomas and st. john, one of the things we saw that was ubiquitous is the presence of the u.s. army. we saw a lot more of them than we saw fema tarps. what is the status of the recovery and is there a significant army presence on the ground and is fema there? >> fema is here. there are troops from 30 states. a good number of them are playing a support role and augmenting our security. i was touched by your opening piece in terms of the resiliency of people here. we've got probably 1500 to 1800 blue roofs on. we're shipping in the modular hospitals we're going to erect, because both of the hospitals were severely damaged with both of these cat 5 hurricanes.
still less than 20% of the community is energized by electricity. we've got our first wave of 300 linemen right now out rebuilding the distribution system. so we need help. we're recovering from two cat 5s but we're making progress. and the strength and resiliency of the people of the territory, as you witnessed when you were here. >> you know, governor, the reason i asked about fema is we did reach out to fema as we do each week when we try to update our viewers on what's going on in the u.s. virgin islands and puerto rico. we asked for a status update in terms of power, water, any statistics at all. what we got back was a press release touting the great work of fema and how cell service and wifi was getting back on. but we really couldn't get a lot of information. are you able to get specific
statistics about your own territory? >> yes. fema and my government, we work very close together. i have to tell you that fema and our federal partners have made a tremendous response. we're making the kind of progress in terms of the recovery. we've reopened our schools and starting to send children -- you know, getting to some sense of normalcy. this is my fifth experience with severe hurricanes in the territory, but the reality for us in the virgin islands and our history with these hurricanes is that we become a central part of our recovery. we get out there with folks, we work with folks. i've sat with fema. i meet with them about twice a week in the mornings and then they're here every evening and we go to the community and present what we're doing, where we're at with the progress, addressing the concerns. you know, there's no script to
recover from a disaster. you've just got to measure it by the getting to the quality of life of your folks and making sure they're safe, they're fed and they're being attended to in terms of their medical needs. >> we hope you will join us again. we want to keep these updates coming for our viewers. thank you, sir. thank you for your time. >> thank you so much. there's more a.m. joy next. i can't wait for her to have that college experience that i had.
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on bottles water. joining me is the mayor of flint, michigan, karen weaver. i want to start with you were supposed to have a meeting or were scheduled to meet with white house leaders over the infrastructure in your city. did that meeting take place? if so, what happened? >> yes, that meeting did take place. it was a good first step for us, i will say, because one of the things we had talked about was with the changing of administration, we had not had an open line of communication to discuss the continuing challenges that the people of flint are facing. and so we did get an opportunity to get that dialogue started. >> and there was a ruling from a judge that said that flint needed to make a choice and choose its long-term source of drinking water by next week. has that decision been made? because i believe that deadline would be monday. >> that deadline -- you are correct, that deadline is monday and a decision has not been made. i have signed off on the water recommendation. i am the one that put it forward. i know it was in the best interest of public health and being fiscally responsible for the city of flint, but that
decision has to be made by monday. >> why can't flint just going back to getting its water from the city of detroit like it did for so many decades? >> that's what we have put forward and that was the recommendation because that's where we did get our water. we went back to detroit and are continuing to get water from detroit but would like to lock down this agreement so we can assure that's what continues to happen. >> is there a fact that there is contention over where to get your water, is that about this regional water authority wanting to take the contract, no matter what flint wants? >> right now it's stuck with our counsel. and council has to make that decision. we've had everybody sign off on this except city council and that's what we're waiting to have happen right now. >> and there has been lead testing that shows flint is testing at six parts per billion. the federal action level is 15 parts per billion which means flint is testing under the crisis level the federal government has set. so why are people in the city of flint still using bottled water to bathe?
>> i'm glad you asked that question because we are testing better. the water quality is better. but we have construction going on all over the city of flint. when you have that amount of construction going on, you still have to protect yourself. the only way for us to do that is with bottled and filtered water. and so while progress has been made, we know this process we're finishing year one and have two years left before we get all of the lead service lines replaced. and so until that happens, we have to stay on bottled and filtered water. >> it's hard for a lot of americans to believe whether you're talking about the caribbean or talking about flint that in 2017, a super modern american public cannot fix its infrastructure more quickly than this. have you been surprised how long it takes? >> you're absolutely right. we shouldn't be having this conversation in 2017. you would think this would have been addressed. that's why one of the things even in reaching out to the mayor in puerto rico was to speak up about the access to clean, affordable water and the need for infrastructure. >> absolutely.
apparently if you don't speak up and yell, you don't get any action. mayor karen weaver, thank you very much. always good to talk to you. >> thank you. >> thank you. and that's our show for today. thank you for watching. "a.m. joy" is back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. stay with msnbc for all the latest news. my experience with usaa has been excellent.
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good day, everyone. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world head quarter. it's high noon in the east, it's 9:00 out west. here's what's happening right now of the finding out what's in the jfk files. president trump plans to release government documents about the assassination. what could be learned from these still secret documents? new tweets and a call for an apology. the latest turns in the controversy that started when president trump made a condolence call to the widow of a fallen soldier. tax code overhaul. a new report says one idea being considered is a sharp cut to your 401(k) contribution limits.