tv Meet the Press MSNBC October 22, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
this sunday. credibility. president trump and the lack of civility in politics. a week that began with a fight over what president trump said to a grieving widow. >> sarcastically he said he must have known what he signed up for. how can you say that to the grieving widow? >> i didn't say it at all. she knows it. >> and ends with two former presidents criticizing the current one. without mentioning him by name. >> our politics seem more vulnerability to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication. >> if you have to win a campaign by dividing people, you're not going to be able to govern them. >> my guest this morning on civility, health care, tax cuts
and the attack on u.s. soldiers in africa, chuck schumer and republican senator lindsay graham. plus that republican civil war. >> there has not been a more destructive presidency than george bush's. >> more evidence that the republican party is showing signs of splitting in two. and in the wake of the harvey weinstein scandal, we asked female senators to share their me too stories with "meet the press." >> he closed the door. >> you know, i have a story. >> and he looked at me and he paused and said well did you bring your knee pads? >> remarkable stories about what happened to the powerful women early in their careers. joining me for insight is tom friedman, robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post." and helene cooper, correspondent for "the new york times." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press."
>> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, celebrating it's 70th year. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. this was a week when attention should have been focused on real life issues with consequences. but it was a side show around that niger battle what president trump reportedly said about one of the fallen soldiers that the dominated headlines and the erosion once again of civility in our politics. the serial battles that president trump engages in with democrats, the media and even members of his own party. appeared to prompt two former presidents and a former presidential nominee to lament the lowering of the national discourse in the age of twitter and by implication at the person they believe is responsible for it. the latest twitter/cable catnip soap opera began that president
trump has made a point of calling and comforting the families of american service members who died in defense of their country. >> if you look at president obama and other presidents, most of them didn't make calls. a lot of them didn't make calls. >> i believe we can -- an ugly week when even condolences to gold star fallen families -- >> i didn't say that. she knows it. >> frederica wilson said that your guy knew what he signed up for. >> he doesn't need to talk about what people sign up for. that is unconscionable. >> mr. trump rather than going out himself sent his chief of staff to clean up the mess. >> it stuns me that a member of congress would have listened in on the conversation. >> if you want to get into the debate with a four star marine general i think that that's something highly inappropriate.
>> last night, all five living former presidents gathered in texas to raise money for hurricane relief. and an effort they are calling the one america appeal. >> the heart of america without regard to race or religion or political party is greater than our problems. >> mr. trump taped a video message as well. >> through this effort all five former living presidents are playing a tremendous role in helping our fellow citizens recover. >> it was a show of unity after a week in which presidents bush and obama broke the ex-president's club code of silence and indicted president trump's brand of politics without ever mentioning him by name. >> bigotry seems emboldened. our politics seem more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication. >> if you have to win a campaign by dividing people you're not going to be able govern them.
>> echoing another rebuke, this one by john mccain. >> for the sake of half baked spurry louse nationalism while trying to find scapegoats. >> and mr. trump's former chief strategist steve bannon did respond on a blistering attack on friday night and he called for open revolt inside the republican party. >> president bush to me embarrassed himself. he has no idea whether he's coming or going. just like it was when he was president of the united states. there's not been a more destructive presidency than george bush's. >> as for the president himself he only responded directly to senator mccain. >> people have to be careful because at some point i fight back. >> yeah. >> you know, i'm being very nice. i'm being very, very nice. but at some point i fight back and it won't be pretty. >> well, joining me now is republican senator lindsey graham from south carolina.
>> good morning. >> lovely morning. i know you always love being on here on weeks like this. you were tough on candidate donald trump. in fact, i think right before you got out you called him a race baiting xenophobic religious bigot. you heard what president bush said. where are we? >> well, he won, i lost. president bush is still popular in the republican party. but donald trump couldn't have won without rejecting the last 16 years really when you think about it. there were a lot of people like bush running in our primary and all of them got creamed and clinton was not the greatest candidate but if president obama was what the american people would -- wanted to continue then trump wouldn't have won. so i'd say to both former presidents i admire president bush a lot, president obama i don't think get why president trump won. >> you don't understand why he won? >> i think i do. >> what -- you just said you didn't think. >> i think -- >> you don't think --
>> i think president bush -- i'm more in the bush camp on foreign policy. >> right. >> mccain's speech was about we are not going down the bannon road. when you look at who's around president trump he's got more people like john mccain and lindsey graham so i'm hopeful, but in the primary he rejected basically the bush model of foreign policy. and in -- in the general election, base -- >> but that's on substance. that's fine. but when did civility become an ideological issue? when did this idea -- no, it's more important to be pugilistic or more important to land that punch. i would argue that's what both former presidents were getting to. they were not trying to get ideological here. >> mccain, part of the discourse when he came down the escalator, the first thing that president trump talked about was pretty tough and he won. >> what does that say about us then? >> it means that we want somebody who's not traditional. that we're sick and tired of the status quo. whether it be in obama or bush
and that people felt so bad about their government they had nothing to lose. they were going to pick a guy that was rich, that liked being rich and he says i'm going to make you rich. a guy that says i'm being involved in everybody's business except ourselves and guess what he won. >> look at this week. you ask yourself why couldn't he take the high ground. the condolences. look, it's not about -- to me, business -- the customer is always right. in this the grieving widow is always right. i'm sorry. i don't care -- i ask i ask you why didn't he take the high road. >> this all started when he was asked do you reach out to the four fallen families? and then he brought up president obama. being around president trump a lot lately, i know he loves the military. general kelly tried to give him
advice about how to talk about the things and president trump may have delivered it inartfully. if president obama was on the end of the phone and i was in the car, i wouldn't have politicized it like congresswoman wilson. >> there's no winners here. >> right, the american people that have four young men -- >> willing to do this. >> that would be willing to go and leave their family to a place out in the middle of nowhere to fight terrorists so they don't come here. i would urge president trump let's talk about the four soldiers, why they did what they did. and all of those like them. >> all right, i want to know, i think people want to know why they were there. and what we're doing there. i'm going through a quick time line here. because we don't know a lot. on october 4th we were told after this happened that it was kind -- they were there to do counterterrorism training. october 5th it was a reconnaissance patrol.
we were told they were to establish relations with local leaders. john kelly on october 19th, just three days ago said i know a lot more than i'm letting on but i'm not going to tell you. john mccain had to threaten a subpoena to get john mattis to come talk to you briefly. what more can you tell us about whey we were there, what we were doing. >> well, they'll brief us next weeks. i got a little insight of why -- what they were doing. i can say this to the families. they were there to defend america. they were there to help the allies and prevent another platform to attack america and the allies. senator mccain is frustrated rightly so. we don't know where we're at in the world militarily and john mccain is going to try to create a new system to make sure that we can answer the question of why we were there, we'll know how many soldiers are there and if somebody gets killed there that we won't find out about it in the paper and john mccain and i think general mattis will come
one a new process, i hope. >> you used some alarming words when you said we don't want the next 9/11 to come from nighter. you're making this is part of the same war you authorized in 2002. 2001. that the same war that you authorized that was -- that we thought was about afghanistan. then it turned to iraq. then it's been used for libya. for syria. and now we're in another continent. >> yeah. i don't think the forces inside of niger, the isil affiliated forces can teak the united states but what happened in afghanistan you had a government that fell. replaced by the radical organization, taliban that invited the international terrorists in and be their welcome guests. i worry about africa it becomes the new platform that people can come to. it's where the terrorists will come, after you defeat them in syria and in iraq and afghanistan. and there are some groups within this system of terrorist groups in africa that would attack our
allies or the united states. >> so there's no victory here. >> no. >> i say this because this is a week we got raqqah back. that's the irony. so we make a substantial progress against isis in syria and in iraq. and yet now it's whack a mole and now they're popping up here. this goes to ten years ago -- over, pushing al qaeda back and then they reformed with a new name. >> it's a generational struggle. if you don't think it's a generational struggle you don't understand the war. if you think it's in the middle east you don't understand the theology. it is spreading throughout the world. particularly africa. if you think it's going to be done in a short period of time -- if you take off memes of how you fight this war, there's an authorization to use force tomorrow, and i would have voted against i because the war is now morphing, it's going to places that we haven't heard of before. to the american people. we'll use whatever means we need
to, with partners to destroy them. and whatever time it takes it takes. most are not ready but i am. >> sounds like you're arguing no, but by the way you're in the minority, right? >> i don't know. i'm arguing that the current authorization as long as it's related to radical islam is enough. but the military determines who the threats are. they come up with the engagement policy. if we don't like what the military does we can defund the operation. i didn't know there was a thousand troops in niger. john mccain is right to tell the military, with no limitation on time or geography you have to tell us more. >> before i let you go, you have come on this show numerous times and said russia needs to be punished. you passed a tough sanctions bill and passed it in july. the president signed it in early august and there was a deadline of october 1. it's now the 20th and the sanctions have not been implemented. why? >> i think the trump administration is slow when it
comes to russia. never -- they have a blind spot on russia. and i can't figure out why. >> when does that become circumstantial evidence to you? >> in '16 they interfered in our elections, but in '18 and '20 they're coming back against us. did what they did in 2015, did that act to the act of war? how do you respond to cyber threats? we're not well together as a nation in terms of of the threats we are facing from the cyber arena. but russia is going to get worse if not better at -- mr. president, go after russia because they're coming after us. >> how are you going to hold them accountable if they don't implement the sanctions? >> i think the president is beginning to understand the threats we are facing each and every day. >> thanks for coming on. no four letter words this time. >> the day is not over. >> fair enough.
we'll see what the next guest thinks. joining me now is chuck schumer of new york. senator schumer, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> good morning. >> all right, i want to start actually with niger. as the senate democratic leader have you been briefed? >> not yet. i hoped to briefed early next week. >> why not? was jack reed briefed? >> no, i don't believe he was either. he sent a letter along with john mccain demanding they come in and brief him. >> i understand that. i guess if you get this briefing and you heard what senator graham believes this is part of the larger battle against radical islamist, the cult-like spread of it. now taking place in africa. what does this mean for the war authorization? senator graham didn't know we had a thousand troops in niger, did you? >> no, i did not. what it means for the war authorization is i agreed with senator paul that we ought to look at this carefully. we are in a brave new world, you know.
there are no set battle plans. you don't declare war and then fight three weeks later. but having said that, the constitution says congress has the power to declare war and if you're in a long term war congress ought to keep that ability. so we need to re-examine this, we're on a aumf that extends 16 years from right after we were attacked at the world trade center. so i would be re-examining it. absolutely. no easy answer, but we should look at it. the answer we have now is not adequate. >> is this -- how do you describe it any other way than never ending war? >> well, look, terrorism and technology has allowed terrorists to do bad things to us. our military is very, very good and that's why we're having such success in syria and iraq. but we have -- >> let me stop you there. >> but we have to keep at it. >> why is that considered a success? i say this way because it seems, okay, we had success in afghanistan until we didn't. we had success in iraq until we
didn't. we had success -- raqqah and then all of a sudden it's popping up in central africa. the point i guess is how do you define success? because it seems these short term victories are just that. short term. >> well, two years ago it looked like the isis would have a caliphate. when they had territory, they can get money out of the big cities, mosul and raqqah and the others. they can't do that. can they still try to hurt us? yes. we have to do everything we can to stop it. to say we haven't won the war isn't to say we haven't had some successes. >> all right. move to health care. it seems like the democrats are more enthusiastic about the bipartisan deal between senators alexander and murray than the republicans are. so let me ask you this. it's clear that they want -- the administration wants a little bit more in this deal in order to get these payments back. these subsidy payments back to the insurance companies in order for low income -- what are you -- are you willing to do
more? >> look, this is a good compromise. it took months to work out. it hasn't -- it has the majority. it has 60 senators supporting it. we have 12 republicans and i would urge senator mcconnell to put it on the floor immediately this week. it will pass, it will pass by a large number of votes and that'll put pressure on the house. that prevents the premiums from going up 20% even more in some states that falls on everybody's back. if republicans think that if premiums go up they'll avoid the blame, if senator mcconnell thinks that he's wrong. for the substantive reason preventing the premium going up, number one. and number two, the republicans should come with a bill, and we should pass it and pass it now. you can say it i won't pass it unless this happens or that happens. we can get together in a bipartisan way.
the president had urged it originally. he called both murray and alexander and said, come to a solution. then they come to the solution and the right wing attacks it and he backs off. that's the whole problem, the president not leading on issue after issue. he should stop tweeting and start leading. roll up the sleeve, solve problems, don't attack so-called enemies. that will reduce the debate you pointed out. >> let me ask you on health care, the issue of creating association health care plans. he did an executive order on and something to become a part of this deal. to loosen the regulations. the democrats are not a majority in congress. don't you almost have an obligation that you probably have to give a little bit more since, you know -- the republicans are the ones in charge. >> we gave on copper plans, you know? the republicans always wanted copper plans. these are minimal plans. we didn't like it.
i remember during the health care debate president obama didn't like it. that was a big concession. you can't negotiate a deal, shake hands on the deal and then say, i'll do it only if you add this. then the other side says, well, then add that. then the deal collapses. we have one now. you let -- >> you're not budging, there's no movement? are democrats done negotiating? >> we have a very good deal. mcconnell should put it on the floor. it will pass overwhelmingly. if ryan puts it on the floor -- >> you didn't answer if you're done. are you willing to talk? >> we have an agreement we want to stick by it. >> are you willing to talk or no? >> we are sticking to the agreement we have. put it on the floor. see if it fails. don't just -- i mean, you're asking me to negotiate against myself. i have been around long enough, i don't do enough. >> fair enough. let me ask you about deals with the president.
it looked like you had a deal on daca. >> yeah. >> now it appears the delay -- the idea of congress codifying the protection for the so-called d.r.e.a.m.ers is going to get postponed again. is that what's happening? the president will sign an order to extend it through the end of the year in order to keep negotiating? >> well, i would hope that we can get daca done before the end of the year. there's overwhelming support in the house and the senate once again to deal with these kids. even the president has expressed sympathy and i think in this case it's genuine for the daca kids. same thing on health care. we came to an agreement. the right wing attack and he backed off. he cannot let a fringe wing of the republican party run the show or his presidency will not accomplish anything. that's the greatest rap against him, even with his supporters. he ought to follow through on the agreement he had with leader
pelosi and i and we think it's really important. >> you think end of the year. fair enough. >> i do. >> finally, the president targeted you this week on the issue of iran. dem schumer hated the iran deal and now he's okay with it. tell that to israel, chuck. let me ask you this. why aren't you happy that you have an opportunity to potentially make the deal tougher or to renegotiate the deal? why aren't you embracing the president's move here? >> well, general mattis isn't. general mattis and our military leaders i believe secretary of state as well, has said that it's not in our national security to undo the deal. let me say two things. if we were to undo the deal, iran would not be squeezed because the europeans would continue to trade with iran and sanctions only work if we all do them. even though i was against the deal to begin with i thought it could have been negotiated much
better. we near a different situation now. the most immediate threat from iran is not as part of the deal which everyone agrees they have not violated the nuclear part but two other things. one, icbms they're building them. real danger. two, they're arming hezbollah to the teeth, particularly in lebanon with rockets that could damage israel. we ought to come up with tough new sanctions that go after iran on those things, but don't violate jcpoa. the president as usual is tweeting away but just like with russia he hasn't enacted the sanctions. this presidency doesn't get anything done. all he does is spending his time tweeting an degrading the so-called enemies and that doesn't work and demeans the president. >> all right, chuck schumer, i will leave it there. >> got to -- sorry about the yankees. got to throw that in. >> it's all right. good for houston though.
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welcome back. the panel is here. robert costa from the washington post and moderator of a tv show. and tom friedman, columnist from "the new york times" and his latest best seller "thank you for being late" is now out in paper back so he's now a paper back writer. a little beatles reference, come on. it's for -- a few people get. a few people get it. tom friedman, we had two former presidents break the code, okay, the code of ex-presidents going
that extra level of back seat driving the current occupant. look, it's not as if bush and obama hadn't made their opinions known about trump during the campaign but how seriously should the public take this? >> i think what's going on, chuck, is a real crisis of authority. something i talked about one -- once before. there's a big difference between formal authority and moral authority. i would argue he has lost all of his moral authority. that's why last week he had to bring out general kelly. four star marine general because he still had formal authority and moral authority. unfortunately general kelly by saying things that were provably false about that congresswoman really lost i think a lot of his moral authority. now we have a situation where the white house spokeswoman had to invoke his formal authority that he was a four star marine general to basically shut up the press. i think that's the tragedy here. like everyone has lost their moral authority and i think
that's real crisis for the country because when we're in a real crisis and we need to trust general kelly and the president, something has been lost here. >> here's peggy noonan who writes, fdr and ronald reagan were pretty tough, but they managed to sound like presidents and not say john gotti. >> you know, again, i think president bush -- with all respect for the analysis about moral authority which i think is really very fair, i think president bush and president obama actually don't get what the issue is. there's a crisis of faith in government. the american people -- much like many people around the world don't believe that government is in this for them. don't believe they're being served. think they're corrupt. think they're dishonest. what those two gentlemen said while we all at the table may agree with them, don't go toward solving the problem. >> but is their anger based on fabrications in many ways?
you know, they're angry at things that didn't happen, but thigh think -- they think they did because they're being fed decisive rhetoric. >> well, i will say it's because of the fake news. >> i understand. that's a vicious cycle we are in. >> we need to answer the crisis of faith in our leadership. not simply focus on the fact that donald trump is there. lindsey graham was absolutely right. graham said this isn't just about one guy. he got elected. we may not like it. but he got elected. what are the folks looking for? >> i think it's hard to talk about restoring american's faith in the government when you have the representatives of the government standing in front of the american people and telling demonstrably false stories. i think tom is completely right that general kelly lost a huge amount of credibility when he said what he did about representative wolfson. that takes away -- i mean, you see this white house constantly bleeding out this credibility
issue. >> when i was at the capitol this week i a talked to -- i talked to some senators and council members and a lot echoed senator graham. privately they're in lock step with george w. bush but they believe the country in part because they told me about the obama and bush presidencies have lost faith in the institutions of the national political parties and because of this rising populism and rising frustration, those in washington don't feel able to navigate the moment. >> why can't you have this populism and this anger -- well, look david brooks wrote this. barberism and vulgarity we have in profusion. few would say he's spreading a contagion that we would like our children to catch. the point is the idea of role model and going back to your moral authority. can't the president do this, torch the establishment and at the same time set a high bar? >> there's so much elitist --
>> i understand that. >> and the answer is that donald trump is a reflection of something and he is who he is. for those of us who don't like it, for those of us who can't deal with it, the answer is to find candidates out there who aren't roy moore or donald trump and how the american people will elect them. nobody is talking about that fact. >> you know, chuck, the biggest industry in america today is the anger industry. because we have technologies now, twitter, facebook, instagram that allow so many people to participate in aroutioning and videos and pictures. the whole picture is arousing each other through video and pictures and whatnot. i worry that the technology is -- we're really fighting this technology. it's just so easy to get a lot of people stirred up and you don't have to be president to do it. >> i have always said that the most honest thing that alex jones has ever uttered is the name of his show, info wars.
a belief it's not a debate in facts but weaponizing information true or false. >> that's absolutely true. that's where we seem to be headed now where you see people on both sides of the aisle and people -- it's impossible to look at facebook now without seeing, you know, looking at the source of where is this coming from. that sort of thing. because that seems what we're getting right now. but it also -- i don't think you can -- you have -- i think the buck has to stop with the white house. because i think at a time when you have our elected leaders and the pointed members of the trump administration standing before the american people, there used to be a time where as president, you should know that there are things that you cannot say. you cannot come out in front of the american people and say demonstrably false -- make false statements. >> you know like i did not sleep with that woman, that demonstrably -- >> yeah, and he got a lot of flak for that. >> they're not having this discussion on capitol hill
because they're trying -- they bought into president trump in the republican party. they still feel like they have to get a tax plan through. they have to get health care reformed in some way. even senator schumer in his interview with you, he said stop tweeting but they're not trying to elevate it to the national conversation. >> we'll see if tax cuts mollify steve bannon. i don't think they will. coming up when the republican party establishment fights president trump's base, who wins? wait until you see the numbers on this one with the actual people. and later, four u.s. senators tell their stories of being sexually harassed. >> tech: so you think this chip is nothing to worry about?
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"meet the press" data download, brought to you by pfizer. and we are back. >> and we are back. the potential for civil war within the republican party has been simmering for years. but is one side finally ready to split off? it seems as if the gop establishment has the upper hand in washington. with the tight grip on power but the trump/bannon wing of the party might hold the advantage in the country. it may be looking at a county by
county map of the country, and in 2016 there were 235 counties where president trump either won, but did worse than mitt romney but at least two points or where romney won, but it flipped to the democratic side last year. these establishment republican counties produced 11 million votes for trump. but consider this. there were 1,839 counties where trump won and did better than romney by at least two percentage points. those counties set trump 18 million votes towards his victory. 18 million to 11 million, you don't need a degree in math to know which side is bigger. the trump base counties produced more republican votes in 2016. that's how important these folks are to the future of the gop. these are the very places former white house adviser steve bannon is targeting in his insurgent war on the republican establishment. so what makes these types of counties so different? take establishment wing delaware county right in central ohio.
it's suburban, high income. it has a low poverty rate. trump did six points worse than romney. now, let's compare the trump base county of wilkes county, north carolina. it's more rural, lower income and a higher poverty rate. guess what? trump did six points better than romney. look the numbers show two different sides of the gop, sides that want different things out of their leaders in washington. our own dante cheaney spoke to those in wilkes county who talked about the need to blow up the gop and replace it with something else. that's how much they want to change it. but the question is what does the new gop look like and can they govern? here in washington, the establishment wing may have a grip on the reins of power but the 2016 results show outside the beltway the trump/bannon base is potent and it's growing as a force. when we come back, four women u.s. senators tell their stories of sexual harassment. ♪
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welcome back. the harvey weinstein story has brought to light the ugliness, the humiliation and perhaps most of all the prevalence of sexual harassment. we were not aware or chose not to be aware of how common this kind of behavior apparently is. so we decided to do something different here on "meet the press" this week. we asked every female member of
the united states senate, all 21 of them all, four said yes. and told us about their experiences. here now arenary stories. >> he was chasing me around the desk trying to get his hands me on. >> he said men will beat his wives and you can't stop them. >> did you bring your knee pads? >> we need to put a stop to this. >> yes, i have a me too story too. i was a baby law professor and so excited to have my first real teaching job. there was a senior faculty member who, you know, would tell dirty jokes, would make comments about my appearance. and one day he asked me if i would stop by his office which i didn't think much about and i did. and he slammed the door and lunged for me. it was look a bad cartoon.
he is chasing me around the desk trying to get his hands on me and i kept saying, you don't want to do this. you don't want to do this. i have little children at home. please don't do this. and trying to talk calmly and at the same time, what was flickering through my brain was if he gets ahold of me, i'm going to punch right in the face. >> i was a very young state legislator and in my 20s. i was single. and i was nervous about getting my first bill out of committee. so i cautiously approached a very powerful speaker of the house of missouri house of representatives, did he have any ideas for me and he looked at me and he paused and said, did you bring your knee pads? >> i have been propositioned by teachers, by my colleagues. and, you know -- -- >> when i started off as a north dakota attorney general, one of the most significant things i wanted to do was i wanted to change the dynamic of domestic
violence. i had an event that i was speaking and a law enforcement official put his finger in my face and he said, listen here, men will always beat their wives and you can't stop them. >> after several rounds i jumped for the door and got out. and i went back to my office and i just sat and shook. and thought, what had i done? to bring this on. and i told my best friend about it. never said a word to anyone else. but for a long time, i wore a lot of brown. >> he said well, did you bring your knee pads? i do think he was joking, but it was shocking that he would make that joke to a colleague. even a very young colleague. >> and i think i was so stunned because i thought well, everybody is going to care about
this the way i do. everybody is going to think about this the way i do and i looked at him and i said, you know, you might be right. i hope you're not right. but we shouldn't live in a world where we don't try. my initial reaction was this -- isn't it a shame it took something as horrific as this kind of event to make people feel strong enough to actually speak up and that the voices of all of these women are so much stronger and louder together. >> you know, i wish i could say that i was surprised. but knowing my life and what happened to me early in my career it wasn't shocking to me. and i understand why so many people keep things like that to themselves. >> statements that are made, observations about our appearance. these kinds of unwanted attention occurs in a situation where there's an uneven power. it's usually the woman who has
less power. >> what it means now, that so many people have spoken out is that it's a way to say we're here for each other and it's also a way to say no. it's not about what you did. he's the one who stepped out of line and this is on him. >> we all need to be part of a solution but i think we have to achieve something within our families and within our children. to say it's not acceptable if you're raising daughters to say, look, you may not think it's ever going to happen to you. in all likelihood it will. and we should be raising sons to say i'll never do this. i will behave differently. >> usually it's the males who are doing this to women. they should know that this not appreciated. it's not cute, it's not fun. >> the first thing i say is you're not alone. and the other thing i would say is, if you feel diminished, you
probably -- that probably was the intent. and so don't think you're overreacting. >> we have to stick together, but it can't just be a movement of women. it has to be a cultural movement. >> to young women on campuses who have been sexually assaulted and worried they shouldn't have been with that guy or shouldn't have had anything to drink or should have gone home with their friend, remember that does not excuse criminal conduct. you don't have to have perfect judgment to be a victim of a crime. >> those were senators elizabeth warren,s mccaskill and heidi high camp. we will come back to talk more about it. coming up end game and postgame. brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission to protect, explore and inspire.
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"end game" brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore and explore. back now with end game. you heard from those senators, and i believe it was senator heitkamp who said we need a culture change in our country. >> i have no doubt that sexual harassment is real and many women suffer from it. i have a strong suspicion that this is yet another one in the series of isms that are used as
weapons, that are used as wedges, that are used as bludgeons, that are part of what many men believe is a war on men. certainly in universities. do we need a cultural change? if women want to stand up for themselves, they should stand up for themselves for equal treatment. if that means someone is going to harass them, they should stand up and call them out. this me too, i want to get on the gravy train, but i didn't want to stand up for myself, gwyneth paltrow, but didn't do anything about it, i'm not down with that. >> i'm a sexual assault survivor. me too is incredibly isolating. look, a lot of women have used this moment to speak out. >> i think they should. i think that's a -- but i also think that there are a lot of women, this whole idea of why didn't you say something earlier? why are you waiting until just
now to say something? sexual harassment can be such a personal issue. these are personal stories, and a lot of women tend to often -- will end up blaming themselves for instance, they don't feel as if they're in any position -- they don't want to call attention to it. i spent an enormous amount of time. this is my example of the whole speaking out issue. the president of liberia, first woman elected president of an african country. she was the victim of domestic violence. her husband beater, in liberia and throughout africa, domestic violence is a huge issue. this huge political icon didn't want to talk about it. i spent so much time trying to get her to talk about it because she could be an example to all these other women. i finally got it out of her, but she didn't want to address that issue. she didn't want to upset her children, she didn't want to seem as if she was pointing a finger at a man she loved.
there's so much wrapped into this. every woman who wants to speak up should be allowed to do so, and to feel she can speak up when she wants to. but it's also very difficult to put the onus on a woman who pressure her to talk if she didn't want to. >> in the last two years, you've had cosby, ales, harvey weinstein. of course donald trump. every donald trump accusation brings a, what about bill clinton moment. that covers everything. politics, media, hollywood. >> you have to believe there will be some deterrent effect. we live in an age where i can see inside of you and i can tell the whole world about it. there are people living in the outback of australia who know harvey weinstein's name. he's now a -- he's been shamed before the whole world. >> i think that public shaming could -- >> this is part of a process
that we're learning that hopefully we'll have some deterrent effect. >> powerful to hear from those female u.s. senators to hear about their situations. it was a reminder what's many women have to endure as they go through their careers. especially those who have been around a little longer than others. when you look at the harvey weinstein story, it's also a reminder of the power of reporting. we know about harvey weinstein because "the new york times" took the time to dive into that story and so while it's encouraging to see people on social media sharing their own painful experiences and senators doing the same, let's hope the reporting continues into corruption. >> all right. i'm going to end, i guess try to end on a -- i guess you can call this a lighter note. jimmy carter did an interview with maureen dowd this morning. let me point out one for the table here. former president jimmy carter. i think the media have been hard
or trump than any other president certainly that i've known about. i think they feel free to claim that trump is mentally deranged and everything else without hesitation. by the way, that's under a headline of jimmy carter lust for a trump posting. it was a wow moment there. >> a little bit icky, frankly. >> i think the headline got it right. >> you think jimmy carter figured out if you say nice things about president trump you can get something in return? >> i don't know where you would have gotten that idea. >> beyond the transactional part of this interview with maureen dowd you see similarities between president carter and president trump. they came in as total outsiders. they also both clashed with the press. and jimmy carter was always someone seen as -- he was psycho analyzed and so you can see a rapport as much as there's a transactional play. >> he still hasn't forgiven the clintons. >> i don't know what to do with
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