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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  November 1, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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i was speaking about mark zuckerberg's 2012 trip to russia, a meeting with the kremlin official under new scrutiny. i want to reiterate mr. mark zuckerberg has an invite to come on this show and answer any questions. we appreciate everyone watching tonight. that's it for the beat. see you back at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" starts now. witness for the prosecution. let's play "hardball." good evening. i am chris matthews in new york. threatened by an escalating russian probe that's bearing down on the white house itself, president trump has disavowed george papadopoulos, the campaign foreign policy adviser who trump once called an excellent guy. now that papadopoulos is a proactive cooperator in the special counsel's investigation, the message from the white house and trump's allies is we hardly knew him.
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>> he was not a person who was involved with the day-to-day operations of the campaign or a person i recall interacting with on a regular basis at all. >> this was a campaign volunteer. he wasn't somebody who was a senior adviser as many of you want to bill him to be. he was swb thomebody that playe minimal role if any at all and part of a voluntary advisory board. >>. i never heard of papadopoulos. he never showed up at trump tower. he was the coffee boy. >> the bigger question that should be looming over the president, who in his circle knew what papadopoulos was up to. we know that papadopoulos revealed to mueller's investigators he had long planned to arrange a meeting in russia between members of the trump campaign and russian officials. nbc news is reporting that papadopoulos' superior former trump campaign co-chair sam clovis testified before a federal grand jury last week. now clovis' attorney appears to
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deny a key part of what papadopoulos revealed to investigators, that our client encouraged a trip to russia on behalf of the campaign. dr. clovis vigorously opposed a trip. adding that if someone proposed foreign travel in a personal capacity dr. clovis could not prohibit such travel. that's lawyer talk. documents unsealed after clovis testified appeared to show he did encourage such a meeting telling plows i would encourage you to make the trip if it is feasible. mueller is creeping closer to the white house itself. "politico" reports his investigators are scheduled to interview trump's close aide hope hicks, later this month as well as three or four other current white house officials as early as this week. by now there is no question that they are aware of the consequences of making false statements to investigators. i am joined by nicolle wallace,
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joy reid, kari ca dera from the office of director of national intelligence and senator richard blumenthal who sits on the senate judiciary committee. are they threatening senator with a perjury charge? they got him on saying something that wasn't quite accurate. now they pled bargained the guy down from zero time to six months. it doesn't seem like throwing the book at the guy. it looks like they scared him into a deal. your thoughts. >> they've reduced multiple counts of false statements, each punishable by five years in prison, to a single count of a maximum exposure of less than six months. and obviously the potential of probation if he continues to cooperate but only if he is truthful. and only if he really gives them results. and that's why clearly what they're doing is climbing the
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ladder of culpability in that campaign from papadopoulos to the campaign second periupervis. there are multiple contacts in that document with the campaign supervisor and with the campaign senior adviser. if you look at that table where donald trump is at the one end and jeff sessions is at the other, you know that campaign supervisor could well reach high into the campaign apparatus. >> they're all denying this. let's go to sam clovis, apparently the next rung up on the ladder from papadopoulos. he is denying a lot of this. in particular his lawyer is denying that he had anything to do with encouraging papadopoulos to go to russia by saying, well, if he wanted to go on his own i couldn't stop him. that is lawyer talk. nobody said you couldn't stop him. who is going to go to russia on their own dime on campaign business? it seemed to me a very clever way of avoiding, yes, he did
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encourage him to go. your answers, senator. >> that statement of offense, the plea document, is a remarkable tableau. a chilling story of the collusion that russia was seeking to arrange and the multiple contacts that took place in march and april of 2016. to say it would have been a private, unauthorized trip simply fails to pass the smell test. and what's really happening here is the special counsel is saying to all of the potential witnesses, the train is leaving, this plea occurred on october 5th. it was unsealed only recently. there is more to come. now is the time to follow papadopoulos and cooperate, not manafort and confront us and face this multiple-count indictment with very heavy potential imprisonment. i would predict we'll see more action soon, more indictments,
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and possible plea agreements. >> kari let me ask you about this violation of the law. maybe it's not always enforced but the logan act. you get the word on a campaign, these russians want to meet to give us dirt, to work out something in terms of u.s. foreign policy, i assume. they want somebody from the campaign to come over to russia. they want to meet and discuss this whole aspect of you might be the next president, therefore, we've got to talk about this. we have to talk about helping you get that job as president. it seems to be creepily illegal. is it? what we're hearing here? >> you know what's amazing to me as someone who served on another campaign's advisory committee on foreign policy and national security is that nobody who was receiving these different e-mails from papadopoulos seemed to understand russia as a threat as it's understood by the rest of the intelligence community and national security community. russia -- the director of national intelligence put out
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threat reports that indicate that russia is a military, economic, cybersecurity, economic threat to the united states. what's in the papadopoulos plea is just one snapshot of one person's explanation of the various e-mails and communications that were trying to be set up with representatives of the russian government. but there is more to what papadopoulos knows that is probably not in that plea agreement that the special counsel's office knows and the special counsel's office is now going to look at what all the other individuals in the campaign knew about these potential meetings and coordinations that took place. >> as senator blumenthal just mentioned we learned this week that in a meeting with donald trump and jeff sessions in march of 2016 papadopoulos said he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate trump and president putin himself which papadopoulos later tried to arrange. today sarah huckabee sanders told reporters she doesn't believe the president -- well, this is an interesting statement -- she doesn't
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believe, she doesn't believe. whatever she believes is what the president tells her, that the president remembers. how does she know. that's what he tells her he wants to say he believes. >> does the president recall at the march 31st, 2016, meeting of his national security advisory board mr. papadopoulos suggesting the meeting between then-candidate trump and vladimir putin? does he recall that. >> no, i don't believe he does. >> we are looking at a picture of what looks to be almost a roosevelt room meeting. obviously a campaign room. the young fella, papadopoulos, sitting to the left between sessions at one end of the table and the candidate for president at the other end. he has been denied his very existence being denied now. we are hearing from sessions now for months there was no meeting about russia ever, there was no connection with russia, blah, blah, blah. heard all that. from trump through sarah huckabee sanders he doesn't --
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according to her, she believes, she believes what she is told to believe, of course, she has to represent the president. she believes that the president believes or says he believes that he forgot that this guy ever exists. they are going into operation separation. it's like custer's last stand. divide the column and somehow we'll survive. that seems to be their strategy. scatter. >> it's one we've seen before. he branded jeb bush low energy jeb. branded marco rubio little marco. they decided to brand george papadopoulos once they learned he pled guilty and have been cooperating with bob mueller's investigator since at least july. low-level george. they're not involved in a political campaign anymore. this is definitely not a branding exercise. bob mueller is impervious and indifferent to donald trump's smears for his aides. they've just entered a faphase where they may successfully convince the 32% of the country that will be with donald trump
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that george papadopoulos was a low-level aide and doesn't matter. that may have been their goal. i don't know. what they say about george papadopoulos will have no bearing on what bob mueller already learned from him, what he may continue to learn from him as bob mueller now questions other aides that may have been around the campaign, that may have come into contact with others since donald trump was sworn in. so they're entering a phase, as you pointed out at the beginning, where everyone who goes in and answers questions from the fbi, from bob mueller's investigators, must tell the truth or they could face perjury charges. >> you are inside politically, i was there too, maybe not as high as you were, nicolle. you were pretty high. i want to go back to something so ethnic it sounds awful but i'll stick to it. i never met a russian in politics in 50 years. >> me either! >> they weren't floating in and out of the office. at the convention. talking about the ukraine plank, the manafort working for the russians. carter page working for the
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russians. flynn having dinner with vladimir putin. give me a break. the russofhiles. they weren't going to beat hillary, last may or june. she has it made, of course. then they hear somebody in russia has tinker toy information that might turn the tide against hillary. wouldn't you know about it if it came up at the table? wouldn't you never forget it if it came up at the table you are sitting at? we saw him sitting there with the candidate. he brings up russia, he goes, that's something i won't forget. they got her e-mails or whatever. all they want is somebody to come over and pick up the junk. come get it. that's all they want. you wouldn't remember that conversation? >> well, of course you would remember it! of course you would pass it on. if we know one thing about donald trump's campaign, i mean, it was good enough that they figured out how to win, but it was small enough that they certainly all knew each other. so this idea that he was some
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low-level coffee boy is not only insulting and rude and, frankly, stupid -- he is now cooperating with federal investigators, talking about everything he saw and heard on the campaign, so calling him low-level, calling him a coffee boy, is not going to help them now. and the idea -- you know, they never forget meetings with anyone from any other country. they have had so many contacts with so many russians they all either lie about it, forget about it or, you know, have to turn state's evidence to talk about it. >> president trump talked to the "new york times" tonight by phone late today. and he said, i am not under investigation, as you know. and when it comes to the manafort indictment the president said, even if you look at that there is not even a mention of trump in there. it has nothing to do with us. joy, what do you think of the flakry that's going on here? all the way down from the president. bagdad bob approach. there was no russian involvement, there was no flirtation from our side with them. there were no meetings. jeff sessions got the memo there
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were no meetings. we never met with anybody. the outer line of defense, the outer redoubt, the perimeter, is so far out there they look like they're lying from day one because it's never proven to be correct. they've had relations. the russians are out to change the election. it's all in the paper. it's news now. it's not an argument. what are they up to with the all-out stone walling? >> if there was collusion, it was hillary clinton that was col udi -- colluding with the russians. >> you're doing their handiwork. >> you have to think about where donald trump was in march of 2016 when george papadopoulos gets brought on to the campaign. when sam clovis, who is now in the spotlight as well, assembles donald trump's foreign policy advisory committee. why did he do that? i have worked on campaigns. every single person on the committee, no is not going to be interacting with corey lewandowski, the campaign manager. what the committee's job is is
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to put together a foreign policy platform that then the speech writers and policy people and campaign people can take out to show that this is a serious candidate for president. in march of 2016 nobody thought donald trump was a serious potential president. he was seen as somebody with obviously no political experience, no foreign policy experience, just a guy from "the apprentice" who was a joke even to republicans. the idea that he could be a serious person on foreign policy bothered donald trump. so he was proactively trying to demonstrate he would have a policy platform. what did the platform involve? better relationships with russia, changing our attitude toward russia versus the ukraine. what were all of these people who were advisers sitting on sam clovis' committee, which included jeff sessions. he was sort of the big man on the committee. sam clovis put it together. they're trying to show their worth. >> who are they working for? russians or trump? >> they're working to try to show they can bring donald trump
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and vladimir putin together, create a trump/putin axis. people trying to demonstrate that they can get trump and putin in the same room and people trying to show they can find the 33,000 e-mails. and that russia has them, i am going to go get them and show my worth. that's trump's problem. all the people ensnared in russia-gate were trying to do one of two things. >> the way to get ahead in the campaign was to get the two people together. now the way to get together in the legal community is to spend your efforts proving they had nothing to do with each other. >> exactly. >> nicolle, did you say something? >> i agree with joy. the idea that donald trump was a blank slate on national security and foreign policy is true with the exception of russia. >> right. >> he had really strong instincts. he had really strong feelings about the way putin ran his own country, about the things he liked and about his desire. and he was -- he had fights with our colleague joe scarborough
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and mika brzezinski. he defended vladimir putin when they said he is a killer. he kills journalists. he says we kill people too. for a blank slate who didn't know much about foreign policy he knew he liked vladimir putin. >> i remember a president who said they could see into putin's soul, all the way in there. i forget who that was. >> but the policies did not look anything like this president. >> fair enough. nicolle wallace, joy reid, c carrie cordero and senator richard blumenthal. president trump began the morning after the terror attack with a tweet storm. did he bring the country together? not exactly. he went after chuck schumer and the democrats and blamed everybody for everything. the instant politicization. with the election for virginia governor one week out now, white
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house chief of staff john kelly dives into the culture war. is that where he wanted to go? resurrecting the debate over the confederate monuments and arguing that a lack of compromise -- was that what it was -- led to the civil war. weren't there a lot of compromises before that war? the toll the mueller investigation is taking inside the white house. aides fearing it poses an existential threat to the trump presidency. they really do. some are urging trump to step up attacks on the man bearing the bad news, the special prosecutor himself. let me finish with what's called in politics a comparison ad. this is "hardball," where the action is. d needing others. then we are told it's braver to go it alone. ♪ that independence is the way to accomplish. ♪
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but there is another way to live. ♪ a way that sees the only path to fulfillment- is through others. ♪ that our time here can be deep beyond measure. ♪ no one who chose interdependence ever found despair. ♪ because what the world taught as weakness, is in fact our greatest virtue. ♪ former first lady michelle obama today criticized president donald trump though not by name. speaking at an event in chicago, she argued people shouldn't share their every thought on social media. let's listen. >> this whole tell it like it is
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business, that's nonsense. you don't just say what's on your mind, you don't tweet every thought. most of your first, initial thoughts -- >> [ applause ] >> -- are not worthy of the light of day. >> yes. >> and i am not talking about anybody in particular. i am talking about us all. we'll be right back. this job that they created to do online grocery and to have that one-on-one experience with the customers, he's meant for it. i'm joey gabe, personal shopper for walmart and i love to see a smile on my customer's face. we35 mules,ur doors with 70 mega-watts, and an ice plant. but we brought power to the people- redefining what that meant from one era to the next.
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welcome back to "hardball." it's been over 24 hours since a 29-year-old man drove a rental truck into a pedestrian and bike path along the hudson river in lower manhattan killing eight people and injuring 12 in the deadliest terror attack on the city since 9/11. tonight we're learning more about sayfullo saipov who has been charged with supporting support to isis. he is a legal immigrant who moved to the united states from uzbekistan in 2010. according to officials saipov planned to continue his attack
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yesterday near the brooklyn bridge. new york deputy police commissioner john miller told reporters the assailant perpetrated the attack on behalf of isis. >> it appears that mr. saipov had been planning this for a number of weeks. he did this in the name of isis. >> earlier today president trump blamed the attack in part on senate minority leader chuck schumer tweeting the terrorist came into our country through what's called the diversity visa lottery program a chuck schumer beauty. i want merit based. we are fighting hard for merit based immigration. no more democrat lottery systems. we must get much tougher and smarter. the president was apparently reacting to a news story of sorts he saw on fox & friends. at issue, the diversity immigrant visa program known as the green card lottery designed to increase the number of immigrants into the united states from countries with a low immigration rate. it was a bipartisan bill signed into law by the first president bush. the president's political attack so soon after a terror attack
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got a swift pushback from chuck schumer and a few republican colleagues. let's watch. >> the president ought to stop tweeting and start leading. the american people long for leadership, not divisiveness, not finger-pointing, not name-calling. this is a tragedy. it's less than a day after it occurred, and he can't refrain from his nasty, divisive habits. >> i don't know that they bring out the best in our country. >> is it too soon to go after senator chuck schumer? >> i don't know that's the way you bring out the best in our country. everybody has their ways i guess. >> what would you have liked to see the president do after the tweet of schumer? >> express solidarity with those trying to fix the program, or fix the situation. we shouldn't look for blame one day after like this. >> joined by christine quinn vice chair of the democratic state committee in new york and
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former nyc council speaker in new york city and former republican congressman from florida dave jolly. let me ask you about this impulse to go after immigration law. right after las vegas and that horrible shooting out there last month, early last month, the conservatives said we shouldn't be talking politics and gun control after such a horrible tragedy. give it time. here the president within hours blaming some law passed under bipartisan support back in the early '90s, saying we should blame chuck schumer. what do you make of the politics? we're talking about immigration politics before we even know what happened or the motive necessarily of this guy. >> as you said a law that got the vote of mitch mcconnell and signed by bush 41. it's obvious the president and republicans and conservatives chose to stay silent after las vegas because it challenged the conservative narrative of unfettered access to firearms.
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in this case, in new york, it actually confirms the conservative narrative that somehow all of these national tragedies are a result of immigrants who come here and commit these atrocities. look, we can't overlook with this president that in vegas it was a man born in the united states with white skin and in new york the man was born overseas with brown skin. the question is, are these statements and reactions by the president an intentional manipulation of today's politics, or is there an innate and intrinsic bias licenwithin president who does not allow him to confront policy making in the wake of a national tragedy. >> i know you are a democrat and liberal but let me ask you about this simple human thing. instead of calling up public officials like you were in new york city and saying how can we avoid this last time. have a better chance to avoid it. he calls them out. >> yep. >> he doesn't call them up, he
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calls them out. the politics, the mannerisms of this president are always look for the partisan divide, and if you can, if you are really lucky, look for an ethnic divide. if you can break it along racial, ethnic background lines it's a winner for donald trump. >> absolutely. it's -- it's always wrong, but in the face of what happened yesterday, it's actually cruel to america. i mean, chris, yesterday this bikeway/walkway where eight people were killed and thank god not more because of a new york city police officer, it's a stone's throw from where the original world trade towers were taken down. a stone's throw from where 3,000 people died and tragically thousands of those people are still -- that's their final resting place. we had hillary clinton say when she went down to ground zero it was like walking through the gates of hell. a democrat. we had president george w. bush
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come and famously stand with firefighters. we needed that in new york. we needed to know that the entire country, all parties wrap their arms around us and stood with us. we needed that yesterday. and las vegas needed that. and tragically other cities where this might, i pray, not happen, that's what we need. >> yeah. >> because of moments of death and fear and, look, people are afraid. we need people to stand up and say, it's going to be okay because we locked our arms. now i know, chris, in new york we have locked our arms and we will push on, but we shouldn't have to push on in spite of the president of the united states. >> yeah. well, the bad guy couldn't stop halloween in new york last night. >> he never will. >> congressman. i like political deals when they're up front and clean. i remember after 9/11. i don't want to think of people standing on the roof the building and having to jump to
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alive being burned alive. it's one of the horrors of human history. after two politicians stood together. w. i am not a fan of w. he stood next to senator schumer, a democrat deal maker. he said what do you need? he said i need $20 billion. he said you got it. this was the way briskly and professionally who powers who were doing their job did them. this president, how he deals with everything. it seems like he always looks for the statues issue, back in there again with the chief of staff looking for north/south, blue/gray fighting again. he is trying to reignite the civil war. what do you make of your fellow republican? >> chris, i was a hill staffer like you. after 9/11 my boss was chairman of the appropriations committee from florida, a republican, who said to hillary clinton, we are all new yorkers now. a lot of people said that. we worked together on that. and you raise a good point about
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what about other republicans. this is not just about donald trump. the silence of republicans after las vegas is deafening, as they say. sarah huckabee sanders said today, trump was just trying to look out for the safety of the american people by speaking out about this immigration policy. but yet, he never spoke to the issue of firearms and what is a reasonable compromise between the parties after las vegas. and so this is more than just donald trump. this is a party who is happy to look the other way when it is domestic home gro-grown terror. where it's in the name of isis or wounding over 500 people in las vegas. when it fits the narrative to create a binary choice for donald trump between the re red-blooded americans who support him and those who represent the diversity of the united states he'll do it every time and republicans go along
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with him it's shameful. >> the congress member is right. this president of the republican party -- we see only flake and corker speaking out -- they make it about them versus us. who did us wrong. how can we get them. when it just should be all of us together in moments like this. and forget our parties. forget where we came from. we should be americans. and somehow, sadly, the president of the united states either never knew that, forgot it or doesn't care. >> you know, a lot of islamic people died for this country. go to arlington cemetery at the vaults where they are buried. check it out. they're not all crosses and stars of david. not all. thank you, christine quinn and former congressman, david jolly. white house chief of staff john kelly puts himself in the middle of another white-hot debate, this time over the statues of confederate generals. this is "hardball," where the action is.
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breaking news. the man who plowed a rented truck into pedestrians in lower manhattan has been charged with one count of material support to a terrorist organization and a count of violence and destruction of a motor vehicle. sayfullo saipov says he was inspired by isis videos he watched on his cellphone and plotted the attack for weeks. eight people were killed and a dozen more injured. the new york city police officer who shot saipov is being called a hero. 28-year-old officer ryan nash
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opened fire after saipov ignored commands to surrender, hitting him in the abdomen. in a brief on-camera statement nash thanked family and friends for their support. back to "hardball." history is history. and there are certain things in history that were not so good and other things that were very, very good. i think we make a mistake, though, in -- as a society and certainly as individuals, when we take what is today accepted as right and wrong and go back 100, 200, 300 years or more. >> welcome back to "hardball." white house chief of staff john kelly on interpreting history. with le this week kelly resurrected the debate over a hot button issue. the removal and tearing down the confederate monuments.
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robert e. lee was an honorable man, a man who gave up -- gave up his country to fight for his state, which in 150 years ago was more important than country, it was always loyalty to state first in those days. now it's different today. but the -- the lack of an ability to compromise led to the civil war. and men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had to make their stand. >> the monument issue has taken center stage in the virginia governor's race between ed gillespie and democratic ralph northam. northam leads by five points within the margin of error. >> susan, you don't like getting into values questions but i know you are at home personally with them. can you say the issue of slavery
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is relative to the time period? people like john brown, you know, you know, they were hanged for opposing slavery. there was an abolitionist movement in the north. certainly every slave was against slavery. every african-american at the time was against slavery. it wasn't like slavery was overwhelmingly popular as a moral cause back in 1861. for him to say, well, it was once okay, now it's not okay doesn't square with fact. it wasn't okay. we went to war in the north. 600,000 white people were killed in the war, mostly white, killed fighting over the issue. it was a real moral issue. and the battle hymn of the republic was all about getting rid of the slavery. to say it was just some compromisable issue. i don't know what history he took in college, in high school. what history was that? >> you know, civil war historians say that is an inaccurate version of what happened in the civil war. and i am not sure what a compromise on slavery would have looked like. >> they made one in the constitution. three-fifths of a person.
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that was a compromise. >> it didn't hold. it wasn't a sustainable position to take. it wasn't a moral position to take. and in the end we fought a war that divided our nation over the issue of slavery. and the south lost. and the south thought that war, the cause of the war, was the defense of slavery, and i think it's important as americans to remember that. that's part of our history and part of our racial history. boy, this virginia race is a reminder that our racial history continues to have outsized political power. >> it sure does. today senators, the spokesperson was asked to define kelly's comments about compromise. >> what is the definition of compromise as it relates to slavery and the civil war? >> look, i am not going to get in and re-litigate the civil war. >> does this administration believe -- does the president believe slavery was wrong? >> i think it is disgusting and absurd to suggest that anyone inside of this building would
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support slavery. >> you know, that wasn't the question. certainly wasn't the right answer. let me ask you about the politics of this thing. i guess i am one person who looks at this politically and wonders why northam took such a strong position for taking down the statues. it's a tricky question. certainly battlefield generals could be properly left on the battlefield, gettysburg, places like that, bull run, places like vicksburg. they were in the battles, fighting it. you can argue about it in public parks. but i wonder if this is a winner politically in the equalicommon of virginia. >> i think it's been very helpful to ed gillespie to raise the issues in the ads he is running on television, especially in the rural parts of virginia. less so in the northern suburbs. i think it's one of the things that's made this race frighteningly close for democrats. seven statewide polls in the month of october, northam, the
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democrat. led in four. gillespie led in three. it could go either way though we think northam has a single digit lead. >> i think robert e. lee is his running mate. next, trump's inner circle is divided over how to respond to the russian probe. should they go to war with mueller and try to destroy him or take a less combative approach? haven't seen much of that. you' you're watching "hardball." and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. if they knew just howers rich they were.ed the average american home value has increased $40,000
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welcome back to "hardball." the white house has been presenting itself milike monday indictments in the russia investigation are no big deal. reports that steve bannon has been advising the president to start attacking mueller. advisers in the west wing are on edge and doing whatever they cannot to be ensnared in the
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investigation. in a "washington post" article trump fumes over russian indictments. a senior republican in close contact with top staffers said, quote, the walls are closing in. everyone is freaking out. the president pushed back on that narrative, of course, telling the "new york times," i am not actually angry at anybody. let's bring in the round table. ashley parker. she has been reporting as a white house reporter for the "washington post." eugene robinson. a columnist and msnbc contributor and jonathan swann, national political reporter for axios. ashley, you are on top of the story. when you get into the white house, are they afraid of being caught up in this sort of perjury trap where you are asked questions that are detailed and you can deny them but you'll get caught and mouse trapped right away? are they afraid of being overheard saying something that sounds like obstruction by one of their work mates? what's the fear? >> sure. the concern is -- and this has been the case for a while -- that anytime russia comes up
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aides want nothing to do with it. they don't want to be in meetings about it, and they certainly -- and this was more true under the previous chief of staff -- they didn't want to be almost even in a hallway conversation where they accidentally overheard something that might force them to hire a lawyer and be part of mueller's probe. >> gene, we went through watergate, there are landmarks we're passing in this, people are beginning to tell the truth. people getting squeezed by the prosecutors. people who want to tell the truth because they are mad at the president, none of that yet. but people want to save their butts. >> yeah. these things go step by step. what would really alarm me if i worked in the white house -- everyone expected that maybe manafort would be subject to indictment or charges, something like that. everyone knew that mueller would probably go after manafort. nobody knew about the papadopoulos thing until it happened. this was a surprise. and he was cooperating for
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potentially three months with the -- with the special counsel. was he doing recorded phone calls during that period? who else might be cooperating? who else might have talked to mueller? these are questions that have to be on everybody's mind right now. >> you know, jonathan, this guy papadopoulos, maybe because of the photos we keep seeing him sort of advertising the greek islands. he looks like a party guy. he doesn't look like a guy who wants to go away to prison for ten years of his young life. then we hear, well, he may have perjured himself and they have him hooked. next rung on the ladder, clovis, his boss, and do the same thing to him. did you arrange or approve a trip to russia under any circumstances. and this baloney about, well, you can go there on your own. why would anybody go to russia on their own dime when they're working for the campaign? it's all an attempt to try to
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lawyer their way out of clovis being in the same situation. hey, you're talking about a russian intrigue, getting into russian territory, literally, to get stuff from them on hillary. you are into collusion, guys! and now they're saying, well, it was only on your own dime, you're paying for your own trip. the defense is a little bit mickey mouse, i think. go ahead. >> i think, you know, one of the funny things about papadopoulos is, you know, i covered the campaign. i have been covering this for two years. never heard of the guy. i was getting calls yesterday from people going who is this guy? >> we're looking at him in the room there. >> i know we are. there is some truth to the fact that this guy really was not involved but we'll seef where i goes. >> explain the russian part. >> i don't know how to explain it. i don't know what he did with the russians. internally no one at the top level knows who he is. he sent e-mails. see where it goes. the bigger concern for people close to trump is what the
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indictments revealed about the scope of where mueller is looking. the fact that he is willing to go to associates of trump, look at financial crimes that may be tangentially related or not even related to russia and collusion, this is a very broad area of inquiry. once he starts looking at people who were actually financially entangled with the president it starts to get very concerning for people internally. >> i think it's going to be a comprehensive investigation and prosecution. >> without question. round table will give me scoops hopefully for tomorrow next. this is "hardball," where the action is. when a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. stay with me, mr. parker. the at&t network is helping first responders connect with medical teams in near real time... stay with me, mr. parker. >> i think it's going to be a stay with me, mrs. parker.
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for three bottles. start saving today at my nation wide book tour fr "bobby kennedy, a raging spirit" reached number one on amazon. it included a stop last night on stephen colbert's late show. colbert told me he was struck by the picture on the back of the book that shows a poor white family standing in salute as bobby kennedy's funeral train passed by on the way to arlington cemetery. let's listen. >> thank you for this book about bobby kennedy. hereto me is the heart breaking kennedy. this picture, one of the earliest memories of my life was watching that train. and i remember my sister putting her arms around me and point me to the tv and explaining what was happening and who this man was. >> my tour picks up tonight with
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a stop on "the 11th hour with brian williams." tomorrow morning i'm going to join the women of "the view." we'll be right back.
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get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. we're back with the "hardball" roundtail. ashley, tell me something i don't know. >> sure. according to internal drafts circulating within the west wing, the president's north korea speech that he plans to deliver on his asia trip will be his most forceful and pointed remarks on the region yet. >> do we worry as journalists that there might be -- this might be seen as provocative, as they say in the east-west conflict, provocative to the north koreans? >> i think it's intended to be provocative to the north koreans. >> eugene? >> 42 days after the hurricane, two-thirds of puerto rico is still in the dark. but a d.c. chef, a well-known d.c. chef, jose andres went down after the hurricane and he has so far served more than 2 million meals to puerto ricans who desperately needed them. that's more than the red cross,
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more than the salvation army, more than any other entity. so just a shoutout to jose andres for stepping up at a time when people really needed it. >> gene, you and i know that not all of our leaders are in government and he's one of our leaders. jose. i've seen him do this kind of thing before. jonathan. >> there's an abc story today that perfectly and comically highlights the divisions between the trump white house and gop leadership on the hill, specifically paul ryan. they're fighting over the name of the tax bill. paul ryan's office had some idea, you know, some conventional idea, the tax relief act or something along those lines. trump wants to call it the cut cut cut act of 2017. i laughed when i first heard it. i actually think it's branding genius. >> it sounds to me like sesame stre street. thank you, ashley parker, thank you, gene robinson and jonathan swan.
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when we return, let me finish with what is called in politics a comparison ad. you're watching "hardball." morning on the beach was so peaceful. until... it... wasn't. don't let type 2 diabetes get between you and your heart. because your risk of heart attack or stroke is up to four times greater. but there are steps you can take to lower your cardiovascular risk. talk to your health care provider today about diabetic heart disease. and find out more at your heart and type 2 diabetes. make the connection.
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let me finish tonight with what is called in politics a comparison ad. i'd like a moment of your time to compare two figures in modern american electoral life. one is donald trump and the other robert kennedy. think of what it is that sets president trump apart, what distinguishes him in your view. one, he divides in order to conquer. he launched his presidential campaign declaring that the first african-american president was an illegal immigrant, someone born in africa who snuck into the country, assumed a phantom identity, no one knew
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him in school and managed to con his way into the country's highest office. bobby kennedy in contrast fought for civil rights for african-americans, championed immigrant farm workers, insisted we treat all americans, including native americans, with fairness and generosity. compare the two on empathy. bobby kennedy spoke to an african-american group the night dr. martin luther king was killed and asked them for understanding. spoke of his own family's loss to violence. donald trump spends his time ripping open the wounds of our society, whether the matter is confederate statues or nfl football players taking a knee. bobby worked for peace among americans, trump tramples on such hopes. another difference, bobby kennedy showed the ability to learn, to grow, to become a better leader. he went from dispatch and observer of civil rights from hawk to dove, from backer of the vietnam war to zealous opponent. donald trump is always unchangeably donald trump, tweeting at dawn with the same zest to agitate, instigate,
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anger, disturb, confuse, mostly distract. bobby kennedy, a raging spirit which became available yesterday is a reminder to our own spirit of everything donald trump is not. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> this morning the president launched into a argument with chuck schumer. >> in the wake of an atrocity. >> why was he so quick to go the political route and point fingers at chuck schumer? >> president trump attacks democrats and the american justice system. >> what we have right now is a joke. and it's a laughing stock. >> tonight, how the trump response changes depending on the attacker. >> i don't want to go quicker and just make a statement for the sake of mangiking a politic statement. >> then, new reporting that a panicked presint


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