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tv   The 11th Hour With Brian Williams  MSNBC  November 1, 2017 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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word. "the 11th hour" starts now. i'm nicolle wallace in for brian williams. new court documents show the man accused of running people down
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with a pickup truck in the deadliest terror attack in new york city since september 11th told the fbi he wanted to kill as many people as possible and that he felt good about what he did. he was in court for the first time late today in a wheelchair facing a judge and new federal charges. we'll talk more about the case and president trump's reaction to it later in the broadcast. but first, with a simple phone call this afternoon donald trump changed the subject back to robert mueller and the russia investigation. the new york sometimes headline, in a call with times reporter, trump projects air of calm over charges. the times quotes the president i'm not under investigation, as you know, mr. trump said in a brief telephone call to the times late wednesday afternoon. pointing to the indictment of his former campaign chief, paul manafort, the president said and even if you look at that, there's not even a mention of trump in there.
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after reports that he was fuming about the indictments, trump also said that he was not angry at anybody. this week mueller revealed a guilty plea from a former trump campaign foreign policy adviser, george papadopoulos. since then his resume has raised questions about how he got on the campaign in the first place. a question former campaign manager cory lewandowski tried to answer on "mtp daily." >> it was a hastily put together list. there was one meeting of the advisory committee and so these names were added. how they put together, i don't know exactly for sure. but i can tell you this, there was exactly one meeting. what we know about george papadopoulos was that he was originally hired by the ben carson campaign and he came highy recommended from a none profited organization in washington, d.c. who vouched for his credible to the cars object campaign. >> the investigation has washington and the white house waiting to see what's next and proceeding with extreme caution. joining me now "washington post"
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national political reporter robert costa, jennifer rogers, she's now with columbia law school and michael crowley, national security editor and senior correspondent for politico, our second date of the day. thank you for coming back. >> nice to see you again. >> robert costa, let me start with you and donald trump's pattern of bringing everything back to russia with the call today to "the new york times" guaranteeing that his interview with maggie haberman and her colleague peter baker will now drive the conversation about russia for another day. >> wshl see, nicolle. what we saw in this interview with the new york times as the president said as you mentioned at the beginning of the show there was no mention of trump in this investigation and these indictments that came out. but when you look at george papadopoulos, he is under scrutiny and he has pled guilty and cooperating to these -- with these charges in the federal investigators because of work he did while he was on the trump campaign for how he talked to
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the fbi about what happened during that campaign. >> for lying to the fbi, right? i mean, that's why he pled guilty. >> correct. >> so let me ask you, donald trump loves to brand people. we had low energy jeb, little marco and on and on. and in terms of a political asymmetrical campaign, it was an effective strategy for the president. but as a legal strategy, do you think he's under the impression that calling george papadopoulos low level george is going to do him any legal good? >> his lawyers right now inside of the white house, ty cobb, and others on the outside are advising the president, based on conversations i've had with people there, to lay off engaging with robert mueller, the special counsel, to let it proceed. there are many outside allies in the conservative movement, in his base, capitol hill to engage with mueller in a more combative
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bay. this is a tension within this white house and administration. the president as you said is projecting calm in a new york times interview, but tension are high in the west wing because they know that these indictments may not be the end of the story. in fact, they may just be the beginning. >> jennifer, let me pick up that point with you. i cannot think of a human being on the planet more impervious, more indifferent to donald trump's twitter feed than bob mueller. can you talk about how isolated the bob mueller investigation and its investigators and its legal powers are from the political climate and the chaos created by donald trump and his political associates and surrogates. >> well, i think they're certainly try to stay insulated from that. at some level they can't avoid some of what's going on. and of course, as we know, they're not completely insulated because they could be fired, right. >> but short of firing him, bob mueller isn't someone who is going to be intimidate by a mean tweet from the president.
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>> well, pirnlt wise that's absolutely true. he's a ploefl and he's kind of the consequence mat prosecutor. there's no question that he and his team are working hard and are not concerned at all about what the president is doing. he's not angered by it. he's not bothered by it. he's want going to be goaded into something by it. that is definitely true unless the president goes further and tries to get rid of him. >> let me ask you something. i cannot remember the last time that a presidential campaign could have announced its foreign policy team and you wouldn't have recognized a name on it, but i'm going to guess and i won't put you on the spot that that might have been the case. let me read you something from "the new york times" headline. ongoing trump migrant. it was a team born out of a political problem. mr. trump surprise march to the nomination had left the party's sustainment openly questioning whether he had the foreign policy experience and was too much of a loose cannon to be entrusted with the presidency. mr. trump's solution, cobble together a list of men who were
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almost immediately written off as a collection of fringe thinkers and has beens and unknown nns in washington foreign policy circles. to put it less politely, they had people with no experience. >> no. >> papadopoulos came from the carson campaign and wasn't even recommended by his previous employer on the carson campaign as a foreign policy adviser. >> it was a rogue's gallery. and i do remember when these names were rolled out, quite frankly, we were laughing. i meenl, i think journalists across washington were sitting around and not only journalists but people who were former government officials and foreign policy experts, have you heard of this guy? i mean, i remember conversations with people who said i've worked in republican foreign policy for years. i know like everybody in republican foreign policy establishment. i've literally never heard of these people. and george papadopoulos was one of them. and it's a reminder, by the way, just to kind of step back from the russia stuff specifically. first of all, of just how unprepared donald trump was to become president.
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there's a lot of evidence he didn't expect to win when he did, had no transition plan really in place. we still have huge numbers of unfilled jobs. and you do see in places throughout the goth people who appear to be very unqualified, at least by historical standards forethe jobs they are getting. so i just want to point out this is an ongoing problem, not just a weird thing that was happening in the middle of the campaign. it's very endemic or emblematic of donald trump as a president. the guy wasn't ready to assume office and have the best people. but one consequence of this is that he's been poisoned by some of these frankly kind of weird character who came in. carter page is another one. a pretty unusual, mist earous guy and we're still trying to figure out who are these character who he opened the door to and what are the consequences for him. >> well, one of the things -- i mean, they all have in common, at least carter page and george papadopoulos, they both had contacts with russians. they both initially lied about their contacts with russians. they both now had to confess to
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their contacts will russians. but robert costa, what does the trump inner circle have to say about the fact that this rogue's gallery, as michael crowley accurately described them, what they have in common is an affinity for putin and a penchant for lying about their contacts with russians? >> what we detected last year throughout the course of the reporting on the trump foreign policy team was that this was a group that was not part of the foreign policy establishment in washington, and they did not have some of the hawkish views in particular with regard to russia that so many people in that community have in washington. the president, candidate trump was trying to scoop them all up -- he actually came to the "washington post" last year to unveil this list and i spoke to then candidate trump as he was unveiling this list. it was clear at that moment that he was trying to assert himself as someone who had a little bit of gravitas on foreign policy even though it was clear he wasn't familiar with these names.
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what's important to remember is though the white house continues to say the president didn't know these people, he did put an emphasis at the time when he announced this list that he did know them somewhat. he met them at the trump hotel, then under construction in washington. and he was trying always to show that he had people around them. so while he didn't have deep connections with them, he did use them throughout the course of the campaign as a way to signal his seriousness as a candidate. >> robert costa, i looked up the transcript from that he had editorial board meeting which was extraordinary and remains an extraordinary document in american political history. do you remember what he said about the george papadopoulos. >> i do. kplintd guy. something to that event. >> excellent guy. >> excellent guy who lied about whether he had done model u.n. can't get worse than that. >> who was not recommended by his previous boss from the carson campaign. >> and attorney general sessions ran that whole group, and he sat next to papadopoulos at the
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trump hotel. he's part of this whole question as well about who was in this group and what were they doing. >> he also has in common with carter page and george papadopoulos the fact that when asked about his contacts with russia, he lied about them. can you speak to sort of this under current of a group of foreign policy advisers who not only were they not part of the foreign policy establishment, they were reflecting what donald trump was saying publicly, an affinity for putin's leadership style. >> yeah. it's very interesting. you know, all along there's all this noise about russia and who knew russians and who is communicating with russians and they kept saying no one was and then time and time again we're seeing that actually people were communicating with russia. and it wasn't just george papadopoulos who you can maybe dismiss as this low level guy. it was kislyak. it was carter page. it was flynn as a paid guest speaker. i mean, the question is who wasn't. >> but it's papadopoulos
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communicating this stuff to upper level campaign people too is where i was going in the documents that were released. it's not just that he's on his own trying to do this stuff. he's communicating with his supervise up to paul manafort about these communications he's trying to set up. >> and getting some positive feedback for it. get work. >> chloe vis. is that sort of where the legal exposure and the legal risk lies for not just george papadopoulos who has now done a deal but for his superiors? is that what you're watching for. >> i am. the problem is, though, everyone is talking about delusion and what it means. the problem is where is the crime, right? so collusion isn't a crime. conspiracy is a crime, but you still have to be conspiring to do something illegal, conspiring to win an election is not illegal. so you're really still looking for some sort of conspiracy to hack the e-mails, to distribute hacked echl mails, to break into the actual election itself, the election mechanisms in the different states. so we're still looking for a crime. >> perjury is a crime, though, right.
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>> perjury is a crime, false statements is a crime. >> is it possible they've all been interviewed and not toll the truth. >> that's possible, certainly, yes. >> everything is possible. thank you all. we're going to squeeze in a quick break. coming up, hours after the terror attack here noo new york, president trump goes negative against the state's senior senator chuck schumer. so much for the white house's stated policy much not wanting to get political. and later "hardball's" weighs in and tells us the most important thing that donald trump could learn from bobby kennedy. the 11th hour back after this. ah, dinner.
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if i had told you nine months ago that i believe we would find evidence through russian intermediaries that would offer assistance to the very top levels of the trump campaign including his son, son-in-law and campaign manager, as what they described as part of the russian government effort to help donald trump and that the reaction from the campaign is we would love that help, you would say you're crazy. no one is going to be stupid enough to put that in writing. and yet that's exactly what we found. >> that was the top democrat on the house intel committee adam shiff encouraging people to take stock of where we are with the russia investigation. and today democrats on his committee released some of the social media ads russia paid for during the campaign. like this one. showing say tan saying if i win clinton wins and jesus rereplying not if i can help it or this one that says make america great again and asks people to attend trump rallies.
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but based on the dates these ads did not stop on election day. like this one advertising a trump is not my president march in new york city four days after the election. this new information came as facebook, twitter and google testified on capitol hill for the second day in a row. back with us robert costa, jennifer rogers and michael crowley. let me start with you, michael. the social media companies, as i understand it from others who follow them daily were very reluctant to come to this point. >> yeah. >> to disclose, to share. and there's a sense that they're sort of being dragged toward transparency. >> sure. >> do they understand that at the end of this process there are likely to be regulated more than they are now and that they are going to face the same kinds of scrutiny in most sort of political scenarios that i understand that media companies face? >> i think it's finally beginning to dawn on them. i think that silicon valley has had this sort of elose other
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bubble that they've created their own sort of u toepian world out there in northern california and it's almost like they don't need the government. they're better than the goth. they're creating, you know, a better culture and civilization inside of these platforms like google and facebook. but it turns out that the big bad world sbruds and that the russians are trying to get in and who knows who else is trying to hack into private data on their servers around the world and that there are actually national security implications, of course twitter has dealt with all kinds of issues to do with hairs am. so the government is coming after them and they are going to have to accept that. and they are also finding that their reputations are being transformed including some of the sort of titans of silicon valley like mark zuckerberg who had hillary clinton won the election we would be sitting here having a panel talking about whether mark zuckerberg was going to be hillary clinton's success or in the
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white house. people like him are really on the defensive. did you allow her democracy to be sub vertd by foreign power partly because you were naive about the systems that you created. >> do you think they were prepared -- i mean, i had the sense from talking to them that their initial posture was well, the trump campaign just took better advantage of our tools. they really didn't want to take any responsibility for the way that a foreign adversary miptd manipulated the american public. >> well, i think we will have some. i think that there will be new laws. there will be increased regulation. there's no question. companies never want to be regulated. they want to make their own decision and do it opaquely usually because they want to control all of that. i do think we will have legislation. dianne feinstein is out pretty strong saying there's going to be things like that so i think we can expect that.
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>> every trump voter i've ever interviewed, every single one of them told me that they got the vast majority of their news about politics, about donald trump, about hillary clinton from facebook. >> and it's going to have consequences, as we were discussing on capitol hill, because there's already skepticism in the republican party about the rise of big tech and you see many conservative lawmakers talking about regulating that industry in a more significant way. and we see political advertising regulated on television and on radio with federal laws in a way that we just really haven't figured out as a country when it comes to social media. that's something that we're all going to be paying attention to in the coming year in the wake of this. what do we really know about what's happening on social media through technology to influence elections both from foreign powers and here at home. >> robert costa, jennifer rogers and mining alcrowley, are thank you so much for starting us off. coming up in the wake of a
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terror attack on the u.s. soil the president of the united states called our justice department a joke and a laughing stock. that really happened. that's ahead when the 11th hour continues. hi, i'm the internet!
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i am today starting the process of terminating the diversity lottery program.
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diversity -- diversity lottery -- sounds nice. it's not nice. it's not good. we need quick justice, and we need strong justice. much quicker and much stronger than we have right now, because what we have right now is a joke and it's a laughing stock. >> mr. president, do you want the assailant from new york september to get mow? >> i would certainly consider that, yes. >> are you considering that now, sir? >> i would certainly consider that. send him to get month. i would certainly consider that, yes. >> that was the president less than 24 hours after a terrorist killed eight people in new york city. today he proposed changes to immigration policy, attacked the senate minority leader, insulted the justice system and said he'd consider sending a suspect who reportedly has a green card to guantanamo bay. that suspect saipov now faces federal terrorism charges. he moved to the u.s. from
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uzbekistan in 2010. he's accused of renting a truck and running over cyclists and pedestrians on a lower manhattan bike path in the name of isis. he told the fbi he's been studying isis videos and his intent was to kill as many people as possible. joining me now is vivian va lamb a, shawn henry, and charlie sykes, long time conservative radio host, author and an msnbc contributor. also on his second date with me for the day. so cut him some slack. let me start with you and any late reporting you have on where the investigation stands and what strikes you from the president's response to it thus far. >> well, the president's responses obviously something that's been very systematic with the president in terms of lashing out at the immigration policies of our country and particularly allowing -- admitting people from overseas,
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especially from muslim majority countries, something that he has been very much against and very suspicious of since the beginning of his presidency, since his campaign, actually. and so what we saw today is the president coming out and sort of out of the blue calling attention again to extreme vetting and again proposing that we look into this diversity visa program. that triggered a number of responses from capitol hill, specifically from chuck schumer, who said that the president is really politicizing this issue and he's really dropping the ball on a number of counterterrorism measures that should be taken into consideration that this administration is proposing to cut as a part of its budget proposal. and so there are a number of fema related programs specifically grants that are specel designed for counterterrorism that this budget proposes to cut. and so here we have the suspect with a green card who the president is now looking at to use as an example of why we need
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to get tougher on admitting some of these people into the country. and so it's a very, very contentious sunl. has a lot of legal implications which the president we're not sure how dab to the extent to which he's been briefed on it or if he's just shooting from the hip and proposing these things on the fly. that remains to be seen, but definitely some legal questions as well as some ethical diversity racial issues that are coming along with it. >> shawn, let me ask you about the scenario itself. i mean, i was on the air in the hour after it happened and people were sort of saying under their breath and nbc was very cautious not to report anything until we had it from two and three and four law enforcement sources, but that this looked like nice, this looked like barcelona. and i know from counter terror folks that this scenario of a lone wolf, self radicalized on the internet with a weapon as readily available as a vehicle
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is the nightmare scenario. >> i think that's exactly right and it's for the very reason that you suggested. people are being radicalized online. isis is reaching out into peoples living rooms looking for disenfranchised people r susceptible to this type of situation and they're telling them to use any weapon available to go out and create as much harm and havoc and kill as many of the inif i dels as possible. the vehicle is the perfect weapon and we've seen this happen time and time again throughout the western world in the last few years. this has all the hallmarks of an isis inspired event. and this guy says he's confessed to the fbi, according to the complaint that i read, that he was inspired by isis. he's been looking at isis. there were more than 90 videos on his phone. there are dozens and dozens of searches. there's thousands of isis photographs. so clearly offense engaged. he was radicalized by isis to create ha objecting in the city of new york. >> charlie, let's turn to the
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president's response. there's a whole range of nol althings to do. president bush, president clinton and president obama all had different approaches. they all dealt with terror attacks and mass tragedies on their watches. but in my quick cursory glance i didn't find anyone who attacked the senate minority leader on twitter. i didn't find anybody who called the american justice system a laughing stock or joke in the 12 hours after a terror attack and i didn't find anyone who didn't find it an urgent priority to find some display of empathy. there were five ar general teen yans killed in our country. some other gesture. can you just talk about not just what americans woke up to today but what the world saw from 1,600 pennsylvania avenue this morning. >> i really did think yesterday how far we've come from 9/11
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where president george w. bush came out and made that a moment of national purpose and national unity and then what we saw this morning with the tweet attack. it's not just that donald trump cannot resist lashing out, cannot resist having a fight. it's that -- >> but no one had attacked him yet. >> he doesn't seem to understand just the fundamental role of the president of the united states and after we talked earlier today i was talking with a muslim american who had been here for 25 years and when he said -- he was very upset about this and i said it's going to get very, very difficult for me now abuse the president of the united states is turning us against one another. he's basically now using this as an excuse to demean eyes all of us of a certain faith, all immigrants. look, the diversity program has been around for a very long time. a million people have come in on all of this. and yet the president decided he's going to make this a wedge iesh ate moment where as you point out empathy would have gone an awful long way.
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and this is the one thing that really strikes me about the president. we can talk about him not being presidential or his contempt for the rule of law as he expressed. but there's also a fundamental decency that people in his hometown have been killed. there is a human tragedy and he uses this as an excuse too lash outed against the senator of this state where the tragedy took place. this is not normal. this is not something that we should just, you know, put in the box of, you know, presidential reactions. this is disturbing. >> and it's also doesn't keep us safer. isn't it true that after 9/11 some of our best work was the quiet work inside the muslim community where people worked with law enforcement, with the very skilled counter terror units in new york city and other cities around the country to help us find people that were troubled. >> i think the answer is when you talk about lone wolves, when we've been able to intervene in
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some of these large conspiracies, it's been through identifying people who are communicating with each other, they're transferring money, they're buying weapons, and there's some conspiracy, which has allowed the law enforcement aegds to pooers that veil. when you're talking about somebody who is self radicalized, you require the people closest to that person to come forward, neighbors, family members, coworkers. >> someone in the mosques that seize them as a bit odd. >> that's absolutely right. and if you disenchan choice those people you push that wedge and make them afraid to come forward. we had a very large program with the muslim community, bringing them in and talking to them and developing a level of trust. this is a war against radical extremists. people who are looking to kill those who don't believe the way they believe. >> this whole comment about what a laughing stock and criminal justice, that's also a slarpd because in fact every single
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prosecution that's been successful has had guilty please. so this dissing of the incredible work that we have done in the criminal justice system in bringing to justice these terrorists doesn't seem to register with the president of the united states. >> add it to the list. vivian, did you want to get in a quick last word. >> one quick thing is also when you act in such an impulsive way like this then you really risk alienating communities and also hurting other communities. this diversity visa program has actually been hugely beneficial for asian and african immigrants as well. you're ale nighting the muslim immigrants who are trying to come to this skpunt also hurting those other immigrants as well. it has huge implications all around. >> all right. i could talk to all of you for hours. thank you so much. coming up, steve bannon worried trump could be losing his grip on power and that he may not survive the 25th amendment challenge. we'll talk about that, that new report, when the 11th hour continues.
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so just how nervous are trump allies in the wake of municipal's indictments? well, former chief strategist steve bannon is advising the president to get tough with robert mueller. and as "vanity fair" reports today, quote, bannon's sense of urgency is being fueled by his belief that trump's hold on power is slipping. bannon did a spitball analysis of the cabinet to see which members would remain loyal to trump in the event the 25th amendment were invoked, there by triggering a vote to remove the president from office. ban object recently told people he's not sure if trump would survive such a vote. joining me now jeremy peters, anita could you march, and charlie sykes is back with us. jeremy, let me start with you. the "vanity fair" reporting aside, if you want to survive a 25th amendment challenge, maybe you should stop attacking your
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cabinet on twitter. >> well, there is that. the attorney general, right. we thought he was a goner a long time ago. i think donald trump is one who loves to remind his subordinates who is in charge and he loves to publicly humiliate the people who work for him. but i think that before we go predicting whether or not he's losing his grip on power or whether or not he's in any type of political peril for removal from office or indictment or whatever, we should remember that we're often pretty bad at predicting these things. i mean, i think that the predictions of his political demise are inverseel proportional to his actual political peril. and donald trump has survived far worse than what we've seen him go through this week. >> and martha, jeremy makes a good point. i talked to trump advisers -- anita, i'm sorry, in and out of the white house all the time,
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and they're alarmed by the kinds of things that corker sees up close. they are alarmed by how he handles himself in office. i have actually not heard anyone really sort of gaming out a strategy for the 25th amendment or for impeachment. >> haven't heard a word of that. i will say this week clearly on monday after the plea agreement came out they were not thrilled with that for sure. but, you know, there are other things to worry about and there are other reasons that donald trump is having problems. obviously you've mentioned one, fighting with republicans. but his approval ratings are not high, and he's really got to be worried about what's happening on capitol hill. i mean, they did not pass the healthcare bill. and now tax reform looks like it's in trouble too. so we'll see. but i mean, it's really make or break on tax reform. there's a lot of other things on his plate. tweeting as well, which support really popular. so he's got to worry about a lot of other things. it's not just the investigation. >> and charlie, something that
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really did he moral ice them more than any of the other things like the 25th amendment, they view those things as large the out of their control, but when the president spends eight days and just can't let go a fight with a gold star widow or when general kelly sort of gets dragged into a fight about monuments, i mean, it's those things that they view, particularly the national security folks throughout the administration not just in the white house, they view those all of sort of in the category of self-inflicted wounds. >> they are. it's the president. now, steve bannon is right and wrong in this. i think that he is right to recognize that this investigation poses an existential threat to this presidency and that's an important insight. there's going to be no 25th amendment. this guy is not going anywhere. on the other hand, there's a lot of reasons to believe that this will get worse. and that "vanity fair" article
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that you reference also describes the president who is still talking to roger stone and to steve bannon, okay, so we have the voices from crazy town and apparently has become very disillusioned with jared kushner. so you have someone right now who is increasingly isolated from the country, from his own political party and within his own white house, you know, jeremy is right that you have to be careful about making predictions, but this cannot be good. >> let me ask you to speak to the influence of bannon. we all know that he is advocating a tougher line with bob mueller. is that something that the president -- he's resisted that at the moment, but is that something he could turn to if the investigation strikes closer? curt shil and other folks to the president are getting closer and closer to the line of fire. >> i would never rule anything out with donald trump, nicolle. he is prone to firing anybody on a whim. and certainly you've been noticing a drum beat on the
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right in the conservative media building the case for the did he lee ledge myization of robert mueller and i think the ultimate removal of him. not that i think that's what donald trump is going to do, but you can hear trump's allies laying the groundwork for that scenario, saying that the people that work for mueller are corrupted. they've given money to democrats. they can't be impartial. and then there are these various conspiracy theories now on the right about the uranium deal that clinton was involved in that mueller should have been investigating and it's pretty clear that they are trying to impeach his credibility. and donald trump listens to that. that's important. he watches us all on fox news. he gets printouts of these arlgs handed to him. and it could have an effect. >> anita, another thing that could have an effect is establishment republicans by and large are still defending bob mueller's integrity, his record as fbi director in the months
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and years after 9/11. his military record and just his reputation of impeccable integrity and sort of professionalism throughout many decades. >> yeah. right. you saw at the white house this week that sarah sanders and others really pushed back on the notion that president trump was going to fire bob mueller. now, we know, as jeremy said, anything can happen in this white house. and i wouldn't put it past him but it doesn't sound like they're going down that route and i think one of the reasons is in part because they would get push back big time on capitol hill from republicans. you would see them trying to protect him. i just don't think that they always that cannot work out for them. there's other ways to undermine him and one of the ways you've heard about is people talking about whether they should did he fund the investigation or just not provide any money for him to continue on. so you might see things in that vein that they would undermine him but not out right fire him. >> all right. thank you so much.
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coming up, the new author of a new biography of bobby kennedy. our own chris matthews will join us to talk about what that story can teach us about the state of our politics today. we'll be back after this.
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what we need in the united states is not division. what we need in the ns is not hatred. what we need in the united states is not violence and lawlessness but is love and wisdom and compassion toward one another. and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or whether they be black. >> that was bobby kennedy in 1968 in indianapolis as he announced the news of the death of dr. martin luther king jr. "hardball's" chris matthews is the author of a new book of a portrait of a man who amid a
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famous family became an icon in his own right. it's such an honor to be entering viewing you. you've been interviewing me my entire politicaler kroo. this is the best book you've ever written. >> well, i've written a number of them and thank you. i hope that turns out to be in every's case. i think what you picked there was such a statement that, you know, racial relations weren't worse or better. they've been just about the same over the years. they've gotten a little better. but to go into a black community, a get toe they used to call them with the police refusing to come in with you and we didn't have twitter and all that stuff back then or e-mail or anything so nobody really knew. word of mouth is how you learned things. so he goes in there as a white guy and he has to go into the community. and i get the old nbc take place. i got the tape where he said the guy next to them do they know yet. so he didn't know then until --
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they were on his side. they were democrats, i guess. he had to tell them that the greatest african-american in history had been shot down by a white guy out of a racial crime. i mean, they knew why the guy was killed immediately. and he had to talk about it and it was awkward. bobby was awkward in many ways but he had this great heart and he goes, you know, trying to find some connection to the crowd. you know, my brother was killed by a white man. how many people could do that? because he had a moral compass, because he did know right and wrong and he knew that even though he was a white guy and it was a black man, that they knew all he could do is say, you know, i've been through this and we've got to have some kind of peace and love. this can't go on. and more politicians could talk like that, it would be a better country. i think they all take sides. we've got the black lives things and the police. and bobby, you know, one thing i learned about him was when he was a senator, he wasn't one of these snooty liberals that walked by the police post.
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he stopped and you could it to the cops every day. he'd always say how are you doing? and that told me a bunch of things. he looked at regular people. this is before the whole archy bunker thing started where the liberals had to look down their nose at working white people. that's my favorite picture. i was running for the san francisco kprr a number of years ago and i wrote a cover piece. and they found that and what it says is here is a guy who was probably an enlisted men in the service. he knew how to salute properly. there he is. regular clothes. the kid also salute lg. we used to be as kids you wore shirts, you got dirty and there is the wife. not a nickel to their name. standing out there saluting patriotically to a politician that's gone. especially white working people and democrats now. obviously reagan came along and trump came along and picked them up because they weren't being attended to. a friend of mine said people
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don't mind being used but they damn well mind being discarded. so what did he do? he'd go into cities like gary, indiana and he'd get on one side in a convertible. tony zblal the old middle weight champ, he put him next to him. and then had the african-american, first african-american richard harris on that side. i want you to know i'm on both sides. the cops, the firemen, the firefighters, the waitress. i'm for regular people. and that's gone. >> i want to ask you after the break how the democrats get that back, because i don't see how they win a national election until they figure out how to do that. do you? don't answer yet. >> you give me the toughest question -- >> i'm going to give you aminute to think about it. >> a 35 year younger joe biden. maybe that's it. t their website using gocentral, did it in...
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i trained as hard as i could to stay alive. i have more than 30 pieces of shrapnel still in my leg. but i still push myself to the limit. if it weren't for my tempur-pedic, i wouldn't be able to sleep on my left side at all. ♪ the tempur-pedic veteran's day savings event is here, and now is the time to take advantage of this incredible offer. save up to $500 instantly on select tempur-pedic adjustable mattress sets. find your exclusive retailer today at we're back with chris matthews. two part question, how do the democrats get these voters back
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but two, how does america get somebody like bobby kennedy to want to be in politics in this climate? >> you know, there's sort of the ethereal patriotism where you like the country because it's been good to you and then there's gut patriotism where you really do feel it when the star stang he would banner is playing. and you get gut in your heart, it's real. and i think people like rudy giuliani grew up with it too. i think that other people are a little too sophisticated about the country. and they're also condescending to regular people, i mean regular people. you know, what's this thing with clinging to guns and religion. what do you mean by -- and i know -- i liked oh bamma, but we was up there on knob hill in the niceist part of san francisco with all the rich people talking about the little people. gary heart years ago got caught talking to a gay group in l.a.
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i'm sure i'm glad you're here -- why is he making fun of us to sell himself to a sophisticated well educated groupment why did hillary talk about dmoshls. and i'm telling you the republicans do it too. if you keep -- and archie bunkerment hollywood started this in the 70. let's all make fun of the irish guy who lives in queens. have george jefferson come over and laugh at him. the whole idea was we're better than that. we can look down on those people and guess what? they got the message. you don't want us in the party, we'll get somebody else to lead us and they fell in love with ronald reagan and now trump. they were just looked down to. people don't like being discarded. they don't like that feeling. bobby was the opposite. bobby said my people are the cops, the waitress and the firefighters. they're my people. i may be for the minorities, but my people, the ones i grew up with are both black and white.
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they're not just minorities. all his staff people, called him bob, not bobby. nobody called him senator. he had friends like, you know, frank mang oh wits and ed gut man. i got to know them all. wayne owens. they felt for this guy because he was a true democrat. he was born a democrat. he was a person of the regular people and even with all his money, he never acted any different. i want these pictures to be a america guy, a guy reaching out to young minority kids whofrp exuberant to see him and staying true to working class people, white people too. >> it's an incredible book and the timing is perfect and you're perfect. >> you know why? because trump. i think trump doesn't understand unity. >> we need to think there's another bobby kennedy out there that's going to save us. >> how we can divide. let's have another fight between the north and the south.
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let's eignite the fight over statues. you know everything. >> read the book. bobby ken by. that's it for our broadcast. brian williams and everyone here will be back. thank you from all much us. good night. tonight on "all in." >> this morning the president launched into a argument with chuck schumer. >> in the wake of an atrocity. >> why was he so quick to go the political route and point fingers at chuck schumer? >> president trump attacks democrats and the american justice system. >> what we have right now is a joke. and it's a laughing stock. >> tonight, how the trump response changes depending on the attacker. >> i don't want to go quicker and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. >> then, new reporting that a panicked president is blaming his son-in-law. >> come here, jared. >> new questions about what jeff sessions knew about russian collusion. >> i'm not aware that anyone else did. >> what the president knew about


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