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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  November 2, 2017 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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as always on facebook, twitter, snapchat, and instagram. i'm headed o the white house for a busy dnews day. lots that will interest our next anchors in the chair. it's like christmas for you. >> fed stuff -- >> if there's a voice in the ear i can't hear it. >> you're live on tv. >> yeah. >> we are? >> yeah. look at the tv. you don't hear anything from anybody. >> i don't hear anything. except the voices in my head always. >> let's start. >> okay. good morning. i am stephanie rhule. >> i'm ali velshi. it's thursday, november 2nd. let's get started. >> this is the beginning of the end of this horrible tax code in america. it's an exciting day. >> he's wanted to cut taxes for middle class families and really get our economy going again and this bill will do that. >> republicans will unveil their tax bill on capitol hill.
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unveiling this after a series of fits and starts. >> if you're a party that's pinpointed on tax reform and you're still mocking things up the night before, that suggests that you don't have your act completely together. >> are they going to be able to convince people that this is a middle class tax cut if you're telling people we're going to curb your 401(k)s. we're going to take away your state and local tax deductions so that we can give a corporate tax break. >> if it's called the cut cut bill, great. >> overnight in a tweet mr. trump saying the terror suspect should get the death penalty. >> that is what happens in autocratic regimes. >> trump has now potentially tainted a jury pool, the defense can argue. >> mr. trump also pushing congress to dismantle the diversity visa lottery program. >> he's ordered homeland security to step up our already extreme vetting program. >> this new video shows what happened after he rammed the truck into a school bus trapping special needs children inside. >> the fbi is now questioning a
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second man who's been in contact with the suspect in recent weeks. >> new york city, it's definitely not a joke. >> eight people who lost their lives including two americans 23-year-old nicholas cleaves and 32-year-old darren drake. >> he had everything. everything. he had everything. >> even more hollywood power players and stars now facing troubling accusations of their own. >> overnight reps for kevin s i spacey acknowledging he's receiving help. also dustin hoffman under the microscope. today more serious accusations against brett rattner. >> we begin this morning with breaking news. finally getting new details of the long-awaited trump gop tax plan. >> at any moment now those details are going to be unveiled by republican speakers. we'll be hearing from paul ryan along with kevin brady of texas who's in charge of writing this
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tax bill. here's what he said earlier this morning. >> what we're going to find out is this is the beginning of the end of this horrible tax code in america. >> as we wait for the official unveiling of the tax plan, i've been digging through it for a little while. let's look at what we know about what's in the bill and what's still unresolved. let's look over here. first of all, we learned this morning it's going to be called the tax cuts and jobs act. not the tax cut cut act as the president was reportedly insisting. for individuals, the tax plan calls for reducing the current seven tax brackets down to four. it was going to be three. but they've now decided to keep the 39.6% for the highest earner. it will be four tax brackets. also increases the standard deducti deduction, doubles it to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for couples. now, this is a win fall for some people. but if you itemize and take
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deductions, for instance, for college education or for health care, this is possibly going to hurt you. the alternative minimum tax is going to be eliminated and the plan is to eliminate the estate tax which the administration says is about middle class people but it's not. they're going to eliminate this after six years. until then, the exemption remains. charitable donations remain, but because of the increase in the standard deduction, the expectation is it's going to actually reduce the number of people who will give to charity at least reduce their tax advantage. the mortgage interest rate deduction will be -- it'll stay, but only on the first $500,000. up until now, you could get it on the first million dollars. that could cause a problem in states where property costs and the cost of living is high. another major issue of contention, we've learned this morning that the deduction for property taxes will be capped at $10,000. deductions for state and local income taxes will be eliminated. all this is an issue in high state taxes including new york,
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new jersey, and california. also states that typically voted democrat. "the wall street journal" also reports that the plan is to eliminate the medical expense deduction. this only generally kicks in for people with fairly high medical expenses. but if you're one of those, that's a big deal. it also eliminates the student loan interest deduction which is also a big deal for people. the other is doing away with the deduction for 401(k) contributions. we have learned in the past hour that there are to be no changes to something that president trump had promised would remain. no changes to the 401(k) deductions. and on the corporate side, a source tells nbc news there's been a battle over the plan to reduce the corporate tax rate from 35% even though the effective rate is about 18.5% down to a statutory rate of 20% to 22%. we think it's going to be around 20%. this is a big issue of contention. this is the one that the white house says is going to cause everyone's income to go up. also whether to reduce the corporate rate gradually or all at once.
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the late word is the plan is to make the cut to 20% permanent and not let it expire. plan also calls for a 15% minimum tax on overseas profits and reducing the repatriation or bringing corporate money from overseas from the current 35% to 12%. this one is interesting. we'll talk about that a little more. and finally, it calls for these pass through business rates. most people who use these pass through businesses actually make a lot of money. doesn't tend to be a middle class thing. it's not a given that it's not, but what they're saying is in reducing it to 25%, they're going to tighten up the rules so that somebody like you or me can't just take a wage earning job that we've got and somehow make it a corporation so we can pay less taxes. >> but it hasn't said what they're going to do retroactively. a huge amount of companies out there are currently set up as llcs. so are they going to be examined? or is this scrutiny or restrictions going to be put on
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businesses being set up going forward? i remind you, the president has hundreds of llcs. >> nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt has been digging through this. it's a lot of stuff in there. so what's been going on? what's the reaction been so far? >> reporter: well, i have to tell you that for a big rollout day, the people that we talk to coming out of the meeting that just wrapped up minutes allege didn't know as much as you might expect. and instead are expecting to get more briefings throughout the day as some of these critical details are filled in. so most of what you all have been working through was what we have been reporting out. and basically expecting. some of these key questions, of course, around what to do about state and local tax deductions because that matters a lot to the coalition of members from new york and new jersey and other states where there are high state and local taxes. and where eliminating the deduction for paying your state and local taxes is potentially a tax hike for a lot of middle class families. on the flip side, they've also
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been doing last minute negotiations around that corporate rate. the president set that line in the sand at 20%. that's what many freedom caucus members on the right have been saying they have to absolutely have. if they're voting for this, that's another voting block as speaker ryan tries to figure out how to get 218 votes for this. but there are still some critical questions. how much money will you have to make to get tax at the 39.5% rate. what are the final details around the state and local tax deductions? will the corporate rate expire after ten years? we're told right now it's not. however, there are still so many open questions here as we head into this the rest of this day that it really could go either way. and the trick is really they have to spend less than $1.5 trillion. they can't lose more than that in government revenue over the first ten years of this bill. that's under senate budget rules. they had some space to work with in the house.
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originally they decided to be revenue neutral. that's essentially the math problem. every time they put their finger on the scale in favor of, say, people in new york and new jersey who want to be able to keep those deductions, they lose something from over here. they got to hit people elsewhere. one of the ways they're doing that is changing the rates around repatriation. so bringing corporate money back from overseas now potentially taxed at a higher rate. again, those handouts that members got today, missing a lot of these critical details. i think we still over the course of the day are going to try to answer many of those questions for you. >> we need to remember two things. president obama wanted for companies to repatriate those dollars. it was blocked. he didn't have the opportunity to do it. to the point kasie's making about how difficult it is to thread this needle. home builder stocks are getting crushed in response to what we're learning around that mortgage deduction. there was thoughts no one was going to get to have that deduction. and now it's homes that cost less than $500,000.
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so we criticize the administration saying, what are you doing for middle income, the middle class. that's what they're trying to do here. but in trying to do that people in more expensive states like new york, new jersey, washington, d.c., california, or the cost of living is significantly higher than other parts of the country. those states are saying, are you kidding me? which is why we're seeing home builders, mortgage insurers say i don't think so. so you have to wonder how big are the lobbies associated with these industries and how much influence do they have? >> and that is just starting, right? we haven't seen the effect of the lobbies on this legislation just yet. the moment it drops you'll see all sorts of people saying this is going to hurt us way too much. >> and some of that's been going on behind the scenes. i mean, the realtors have been raising concerns about them touching the home mortgage deduction. there's a lot of issues around the fact that they're expanding the standard deduction which also could potentially make your home mortgage deduction irrelevant. so there's been a lot of back
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and forth on this. but i will say of all the facts we've learned today on that sheet, the one that steph pointed out about the potential cap in home cost for the home mortgage deduction is the one i think is potentially about to take the most fire. and that is going to be something -- i think you may see some members defending as well. i mean, i certainly know of people in the washington, d.c. area who make very high incomes, it seems, but have trouble finding a home for a growing family that costst less than $500,000. that's kind of the challenge in some of these higher cost areas. i think you'll see that play out today. >> thanks very much, kasie hunt on capitol hill. you didn't hear it. your hearing problem is solved? >> it wasn't that i had a hearing problem. it was that my microphone wasn't on or maybe i wasn't listening. >> it's good to be in the game now fully with you. >> why does he have to hurt me? >> no. i love it. >> why don't you introduce the next guest? >> okay. let's talk to our next guest about this. there's a lot of implications to
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this conversation. >> so let's introduce him. gene sperling. he worked as assistant to the president for economic policy under bill clinton and barack obama. gene, i realize we still have limited information. but from what you've read and learned so far, what sticks out to you most? >> i think one of the things that should stick out to everybody the most is let's remember how this started. it's extraordinary. they said they were going to plan a bill that was going to increase the deficit and debt by $1.5 trillion. i never saw that in my 25 years. and they really can't make it work. they can't live within a $1.5 trillion deficit increase. they have to sunset provisions. the reason they were thinking of that 401(k) change was they needed a gimmick. so one that should strike people is when you're going to increase the deficit by $1.5 trillion, who's going to ultimately pay for that?
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when you look at the rest of their budget, you see there's almost $2 trillion in medicare and medicaid cuts. when you're talking about the impact on middle class families, you have to ask yourself if this is going to increase the deficit by $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion, who exactly is going to pay for it. and we've already seen the desire to go after particularly medicaid. second thing is there's no moral authority in this bill. no sense of fairness. so if you are -- yes, a republican member of congress from new jersey or new york or california, you'd have to be a little lam to support this. i want to say why. if you have a bill that's fair across the board, then you can ask everybody to pitch in. but when you have something that's going to give a couple hundred billion dollars to just people over -- >> i got to get in here. >> there is -- the moral authority, the fairness in it, this argument that this administration is using is that
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this will in a hundred different ways stimulate the economy such that it will increase wages for working americans. some have argued that the methodology in that is wrong. draw that line or erase that line for us. that's the way this administration is going to argue it's good for regular people. >> i think you're right that's what they're doing. my guess is you'll see democrats and progressives taking that head on. what they're essentially saying, the thing this tax plan is designed to do is give net tax deduction to the major companies in our country. and if you look over the last ten years, you've seen that you've had pretty much record profits as a percentage of gdp. and yet you've seen almost a record low in employee compensation as a share of the economy. the point is that neither the facts nor most people's common
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sense tells them that the major problem in their life is that major companies are not paying $2 trillion less taxes. i think they'll make that case. i think you'll see democrats and progressives saying bring it on. you want to argue that that's more important than free college or debt free college for infrastructure, for training, for skills. i think they'll say bring that on. or really you don't think that would be better if you gave that -- if you were going to do a tax cut, if you gave it directly to families in terms of a middle class tax cut? i think you'll actually see people accepting their premise and going right at it. i think there are few americans are are going to believe that giving the largest companies a trillion dollar tax cut is going to make a major difference in their economic security and their wages and personal well being. >> gene, there's also no carveouts or levers or restrictions associated with the tax cuts that would force
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company's hands to increase wages of workers, to invest in the united states. to your point, companies are flush with cash. we are still living in a society in the united states where we have limited manufacturing here. none of these companies are going to have -- will be forced to move manufacturing from places like vietnam and move them here. that's just -- there's nothing in here that says that's going to happen. instead, you're just simply going to get a tax cut if you're a company. >> you're exactly right. and the fact is that when you've had record profits and you have huge amounts of cash sitting on the sideline, and there hasn't been a significant increase in wages. what investments do you have that giving them a deeper tax cut is going to mention that. president obama did have a tax reform plan and it did lower rates to 28%. but remember, his was reform.
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it didn't cut the deficit -- it didn't raise the deficit by a pen penny. if they were making this proposal so it is deficit neutral, i would say i would give it a look. but how can you justify the fact that you're playing all these last-minute games to try to prevent middle class families from getting a tax increase as if that's an afterthought so that you can afford a 20% largely unpaid for koft tax cut. remember, even in the past republicans who wanted lower rates generally supported it not increasing the deficit. this is really a reckless new turn that will be hard to sell to the public. >> gene sperling, good to see you. thank you for joining us. served under presidents obama and clinton. now to breaking news from the white house. president trump's nominee for the top scientist job at the department of agriculture sam clovis announced he's
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withdrawing his name. he confirmed he has no -- not just limited -- no background in hard science or agriculture. the white house said in a statement they respect clovis' decision. a source tells nbc news robert muell mueller's team interviewed him last week. >> and clovis is one of the people whose names have something to do with george papadopoulos. there's that relationship. reporter ken delaney has been doing work on this. what are you hearing about this withdrawal and what does it have to do with? >> does it have to do with free press? >> it was already a controversial nomination. but this is clearly related to the revelation that he figures keenly in the mueller investigation. and this stems from his conversation and his e-mails with george papadopoulos. you know, he was not named in
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the papadopoulos plea agreement, but quickly his lawyer confirmed that he was the campaign supervisor who said great work to papadopoulos when he was e-mailing him about his contacts with russian officials and a possible meeting between putin and trump. at one point papadopoulos asked him if he should make the trip. the lawyer later said he wasn't asking him to go on behalf of the campaign. bottom line is he was going to have to answer questions about this. and it looks like that was not a prospect he relished. >> his role during the campaign was mysterious. before the convention, he went on tv with us all the time. then as soon as the convention was over, the campaign said nope he's no longer available. i reached out to him and he was vague. he was like, well, i'm doing some radio. i'm doing things behind the scenes. and he kind of faded out. but do we know exactly what his
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role is? as he's related to george or carter page or the foreign policy team, there's a lot of questions. >> yeah. and those questions will continue to be asked. he assembled that foreign policy team that included papadopoulos and carter page. although exactly what his role is is unclear. but, you know, i think it's really important that his title was national co-chair and policy adviser to the trump campaign. when the team said george papadopoulos was the coffee boy, nobody knew what he was doing. well, sam clovis knew what he was doing and that was made public in the mueller documents. >> good work on that. thank you very much. ken delaney. >> i just can't get over the term that keeps being thrown around. he was the coffee boy. >> yeah. that was sort of an unnecessary thing to do. only because it draws a lot of parallels to exactly what the nixon white house said about the burglary in the watergate. right? it was a third rate burglary, had nothing to do with anything.
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just know you put him out there, made the announcement about -- >> all right. how about every person on your team is respected and nobody should be known as the coffee boy. stick around, everyone. at any second, republicans will unveil their new tax plan. we'll bring that to you live. and another big story we're following, president trump calling for the death penalty in the new york terror attack. how that could affect the suspect's trial. >> this is interesting. and we're going to share new details about the eight people whose lives he took. we're going to remember them next. stay with us. you are watching "velshi & rhule" live on msnbc.
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we're on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, it's time to wake up to keurig. wakey! wakey! rise and shine! oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that's it. so rich. i love it. that's why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you're describing the coffee and not me? u
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. all right. welcome back to "velshi & rhule." we're waiting for a press conference by paul ryan and kevin brady. they're going to be talking about the tax plan that has just been unveiled. it's going to be formally unveiled now and they're going to discuss that. one of the things in there, though, is a plan to reduce the tax on money that is profits that are overseas. if they were repatriated now it'd be about 33%. they want to reduce that to 12% to encourage companies to take the trillions of dollars sitting overseas and bring them back to america. >> and we want them to do that. the money they have sitting
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parked overseas, those companies are legally gaming the system. they're not committing fraud. they're not committing a crime. in order for them to keep their dollars here, it costst them a lot more money. >> they generate this money overseas, by the way. they sell things. they have subsidiaries, things like that. >> but placing it in places like ireland is just cheaper for them to do. if they didn't have to go through those efforts to do that, if they have those dollars here in theory you think it would be great for those companies, consumer, employees. they would have a lot more money and time not to spend doing that that they could do productive things. we'd like to see that happen. that's a bipartisan hope. >> we're watching kevin brady and paul ryan heading up to the podium. this is where they're going to explain the rationale for the multifaceted tax reform bill that they are putting out here. remember they are calling it a tax reform and jobs bill. and the part that stephanie and i are most curious about is how
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you take soem of these interesting tax cuts and how that translates into job creation and higher wages for americans. >> and that's so important because jobs is not the issue. we are basically at full employment. we have been for months. wages are the issue. companies are flush with cash. the disparity between worker and ceo pay has never been greater. they've spent it on dividends and share buybacks, share buybacks which boost where shares trade. but they're not affecting employees. let's hear what paul ryan has to say. >> good morning. all right. first i want to thank these families for taking time out of their day to joins up. welcome. it is great to have you here with us today. fantastic. you are who this is all about. this plan is for the middle class families in this country who deserve a break. it is for the family who is are out there living paycheck to paycheck who just keep getting
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squeezed. you know, about half the country today is living paycheck to paycheck and a lot more people are about a paycheck away from living paycheck to paycheck in this country. this is going to help give people relief. the tax cut and jobs act will deliver real relief for people in the middle. people who are also striving to get there. with this plan, the typical family of four will save $1,182 a year on their taxes. for many families, having an additional $1,182 more will make a real difference. that $1,182 more covers about a year's worth of gas for your car. it covers your family's phone bill for the year. depending how much data your kids use. that $1,182 more, it could help you pay down your debt faster. it could help you start and renovate your home faster nap $1,182 more for the average family, that will help you put
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more money away for college. it will help you save for retirement, a rainy day. with this plan, we are getting rid of loopholes for special interests and we are leveling the playing field. we're making things so simple, we're making things so simple that you can do your taxes on a form the size of a postcard. with this plan, we are making pro-growth reforms so that, yes, america can compete with the rest of the world. but we're also making it so that families like these that are here can have more take-home pay. this is it. this is a very important and special moment for our country, for all americans. are we going to let the defenders of the status quo win and see our country continue down the downward spiral? or are we going to revitalize the american idea? this is our chance to make sure that generations to come don't just get by. they get ahead in this country. let me turn this over to the
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person who has led this effort. i am so proud of this man and this committee in this room. i want to turn it over to the chairman of the ways and means committee and i want to thank all the members of the committee for bringing us to where we are and for getting us to this point. ladies and gentlemen, the leader of this moment kevin brady chairman of the ways and means committee. >> thank you, mr. speaker. thank you, the american families standing with us today. and thank you as well, the ways and means committee members who have been listening and traveling across this country for this historic day. this is an exciting day and i can think we all feel the excitement here in this room. and here in this country. i know the american people have got to be excited as well. real relief from today's complex, costly, and unfair tax code is on the way. with this bill there's relief
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for real american families. there's relief for american workers. and there's tax relief for hard working job creators of all sizes. and with this bill we will grow our economy by delivering more jobs, fair taxes, and bigger paychecks to americans of all walks of life. that's especially true for low and middle income americans who are just sick of today's broken tax code. its impact on their jobs, their lives, and their paychecks. under the tax cuts and jobs act, that's going to change. and it's going to change right now. for middle income family of four making $59,000 a year as the speaker said, this bill delivers tax cut of nearly $1200. for that main street business making 62,000 a year working day and night and weekends. a tax cut of over $3,000 for that main street business.
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that's your money you earned it. you deserve to keep it. and you should be able to use it for whatever you want. that's exactly what this bill will do. this is our opportunity to make tax reform a reality and deliver the most transformational tax cuts. let's not let washington's special interests or the pessimists fool you. none of them thought we'd even get this far with tax reform and they're wrong. now working together with president trump, our colleagues in the house and senate, and you the american people, we're going to prove them wrong once and for all by getting pro growth tax reform to the president's desk this year. thank you 37. >> all right.
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thank you, chairman brady for your tremendous leadership. all the members of the committee. the speaker said this is a special moment. we are going to make our economy boom. for the average family of four, that median income earner in america making $59,000. we're talking about $1182 in your pocket. you think about the holidays right around the corner, what that means in your life. as i travel around eastern washington and visit towns and communities and just recently i was down in north carolina and in michigan, you think about $1182 for someone who's living paycheck to paycheck, someone in kettle falls. that's making a big difference. or families like the cooks in mirnz. maybe put more money to their mortgage. or victor, a restaurant owner in michigan. he says, quote, we pay our taxes first. we pay our people second.
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we pay our bills third. and then if anything's left over, we get paid. our plan's going to help people like victor. our plan also means more peace of mind. to spend more time with your kids or maybe your aging parents. or maybe just hang out with your friends. our plan is pro-family, and it's pro-economic growth. because we value hard work and family. so if we're going to have a tax code that puts families first, i think we also need to recognize that today's working american family has really changed since our tax code was last reformed. with that comes big change for the realities that our families face every day. for one, women today are making history in the workforce. two out of three businesses are being started by women. this means a lot of things. it includes an increase of working moms like some that are represented here today. we, too, are the faces of tax
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reform. that's why i'm pleased that our plan includes an expansion of the child tax credit, a family credit. it's going to help families have more money in their pocketbooks. pro-family, pro-growth nap what this plan is all about. it's so that you can plan for your future, realize your fullest potential, and empower american families to start dreaming again. and to see how, text tax reform to 50589. >> well, this is an important day. i hope you understand the significance of it. for every member, this could really become the most significant bill they ever make a decision in their term in congress. more than three decades, for the last time, we had tax reform this size. american public has been asking for it. i think it's ironic that today
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is the seventh anniversary of republicans being elected to the majority of the house and then moving to the senate and now we have a president who has pushed to make sure working americans get to keep more of what they earn. three major points i want to make. when i was 20 years old, i started my first small business. small business creates more jobs than any other thing in america. in this bill, they'll get lower taxes go to 25%. the lowest it's been in 40 years. more small businesses. more jobs. second, every single american is going to keep more of what they earn. single american when you talk about a standard deduction, instead of the first $6,000 you earn tax free. it's $12,000. with these families and couples, the first $24,000 you earn tax free, you get to keep it.
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you get to determine what's best to invest. we're going to bring the money that's sitting overseas back to invest in american businesses. even before this bill goes into effect, i believe you'll hear from businesses saying they want to come back to america. the corner stone of what ways and means and president trump has worked so hard about. at the end of the day, is that middle class family able to get more? as you heard from every other speaker up here, almost $2,000 in your pocket. this is about america first. and this is about the future. not only will america grow. we'll show the rest of the world how to lead. i want to introduce one of those individuals who got elected seven years ago who became a leader on ways and means and has really shown the direction of so much in this bill.
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>> well, thank you, mr. leader. some time ago i was grocery shopping at about 11:00 at night in south dakota. and a woman came down the aisle towards me and she had her hand full of coupons, cart full of generic food. and she said when is it going to get better? health care has gone up. electricity has gone up. i had to carpool into town to go to work and i'm waiting for my friend to get me home but i missed my son's basketball game and my daughter's doctor's appointment. i haven't had a raise in years. this bill i know is going to bring relief to her. she was on the forefront of my mind while we were working on thedale it is a of this package. the simplicity, the mortgage interest rate deduction. the family tax credit. i hope you understand how much it's been expanded to not just take into account the child tax credit but also benefits for
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elderly dependents who may be in the home and children who are in the home going to college. and also starting january, their paychecks are going to be bigger. that's going to make a huge difference for them. i became passionate about tax reform years ago. it's because when i was going to college, my dad was killed in an accident on our family farm. he was 49 years old. he was my hero and my entire life all i had wanted to do was to grow up and farm with him. when he was killed, about a month later we got a bill in the mail from the irs that said we owe death taxes. we had land. we had cattle. we had machinery but we didn't have any money in the bank. i could not believe the federal government would come to a family that had already paid taxes on all that income and say because you had a tragedy, now you have to pay again. we took out a loan, but it took us ten years to pay off that loan. it was very difficult for us to keep our family operation. if we had had a gas station or a grocery store, the only option
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that would have been available to us would have been to sell that family business to pay those taxes. so i ran for the state legislature. i ran for congress on a lot of issues. but repealing the death tax is important to me because it's the most unfair tax in our tax code. it's a double tax. and if we're going to really get back to a tax code that helps people and doesn't harm them, that's fair, that doesn't have special provisions or penalties by us picking winners and losers. then you have to repeal the death tax. i'm excited about the provisions of this bill and people all walks of life. it's focused on bringing relief to low and middle income individuals. and also focusing on interest deductible across the state. and other provisions that will allow them to expense and bring down their rates while they're being successful in helping our economy grow again. this is a unique opportunity for me. it's a unique opportunity for you. and it's a wonderful opportunity for our country.
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and i'm thrilled to be part of it. >> all right. steve scalise is coming up to talk. kind of interesting. because they've latched onto this $1,182 in tax savings for a particular family in america. that would be $98.50 a month. if you have unusually high medical costs, your ability to deduct for those will be gone. ability to deduct for student loans will be gone. state and local income taxes, if you live in a high tax jurisdiction are going to be eliminated. and the estate tax. you know, i can't wait because you know on saturday we do a show at 12:30 eastern and i'm going to tackle this estate tax thing. in 20175500 estates will pay that tax. the number of businesses like this person was talking about, 8-0. 80. that's it. 300 and however many million americans, 80 people.
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>> even of those 80 at the end of the day, you probably won't see them paying that because they've got tax preparers. because they've already taken care of it. >> 40% is the statutory rate for the estate tax which republicans call the death tax. the effective rate that most states pay on average, 17%. so again -- >> because if you're that wealthy, if you are a farm owner, a business owner, you've got sophisticated tax preparers and planners that put tools in place to avoid paying it. >> because the estate has been to be worth $4.94 million or something. below that, there's no tax payable. if it's worth $5 million, you pay tax on just the difference between that and $4.94. that's it. >> and a person who has a business worth that, they're simply not getting a bill in the mail from the irs and taking a checkbook out of their drawer and writing a check. they've got a sophisticated plan in place. >> and estate tax is on the value of your estate.
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you saw what she's saying there. again, it is this misrepresentation. double taxation on your income. the value on your es ta-- when somebody comes to evaluate the value of that, the new value is what you're talking about. that's the estate tax. not income. >> but we have to make the argument for families in those positions when they get a bill like that, it is a shock to the system. >> absolutely. >> and it is upsetting when they say hold on a second. this is my family business that my mother, father, grandfather build for years. they just pased away. now they get a bill? >> should the government be taxing the idea that our wealth gets taxed when it gets passed onto our children nap is a really important philosophical discussion we should have. just need this to top being about the middle class. there aren't people in middle class in america that are
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exposed to the death tax. they are not there. >> now, it is complicated when you talk about cutting taxes at the lowest oend -- end of the tax bracket. people at the bottom end, don't pay that much in taxes. >> many people pay zero. >> many people pay zero. but we keep hearing that this is this tax plan for the middle class. there are no direct efforts here that hit the middle class. there are assumptions and hopes and goals. >> right. and we share those goals. that the economy will pump up to the agree that people's wages will go up. they'll be more demand for jobs. >> one of the things helping companies large and small is deregulation. what the administration is talking about to purr growth, during the obama administrations, lots of companies of different sizes would tell you they were strapped and held up by
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unnecessary regulation that needed to be reviewed again. in spiring business growth, it's actually working. and you don't need tax cuts for it. >> we'll talk about it more and more as details come out. tweet us with your how these tax cuts are going to affect you. thank you. coming up next, latest details from the new york terror attack and the suspect. how he became radicalized and what's next in the legal process. stay with us. you're watching "velshi & rhule." liberty mutual saved us almost eight hundred dollars when we switched our auto and home insurance. with liberty, we could afford
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all right. paul ryan is at the mike now. he's taking some questions from reporters in the room about the new tax plan that's just been unveiled. >> ali, this couldn't be more important to paul ryan. take a listen. >> -- so we can keep jobs in this country. so we can keep businesses in this country. we have seen a flurry of u.s. companies moving overseas and becoming foreign companies. that will only increase if we stay at the back of the pack. that is why we have to work quickly to fix our tax system, clean it up, level the playing field, make it more fair. so we can get bigger paychecks, more jobs, and get businesses coming back home. we're the only one saying if you
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make money overseas keep it there because the tax laws don't let you bring it back. so this levels the playing field and gets the money back in our country to invest in our jobs here. that's going to help paychecks. that's going to help come pet committed to doing this. >> the bush package made for higher wages and less jobs. will would you think this will be different? >> so the question was what? >> our last bush tax cuts didn't lead to growth or higher wages or jobs. in fact, quite the opposite. so why do you think this is different? >> this is a complete redesign of the code so we can simplify it so much that nine out of ten americans can file using a
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postcard style system, lowering the rates. making sure you have strong middle class relief. but it's more than that. we're not just putting higher oc tak tane fuel into a tax car. we're putting a lower fueled tax car in the world. so that simplicity for fairness and competitiveness, i predict under this tax reform plan, we will vault from 31st in the world among our competitors to the top three as the best places on the planet for that best new job, that next new manufacturing plant, that next new recourse. that's what's different. >> kacie? >> if republicans can't get this done, do you deserve to control the commerce?
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>> what's your second question? you know why, because the american people are counting on us. we're going to get this done because we told the american people this is what we're going to do if we get the majority, and you know what? we're doing it. appreciate it, people. >> this is the republicans selling the tax plan. they are using very specific examples which they built to say the middle class families are going to actually pay lower taxes. we have other examples through the course of the day. i think you're going to see a lot of them. the fact is there are going to be winners and there are going to be losers to this. the thing we're trying to figure out which degree of middle class americans are winners, not just to reduce taxes but the argument the republicans have put forth this is a job-creating, wage-earning plan. will that happen with this tax plan? we don't to want prejudge. we don't know there is evidence that it is going to or isn't going to. we're going to spend a lot of time looking at this.
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>> we sure hope it helps americans. on breaking news, the "new york times" reports billionaire investor robert mercer a key. the man who fuels, who fully funded steve bannon, his ally, is stepping down from his hedge fund renaissance technology where he is co-ceo. mercer said this morning he would be leaving his role effective new year's day 2018. he's also stepping down from the hedge fund's board, but he said he would be active on the fund's research side. he gave no reason for his exit, but he has received increased criticism for his support of bannon's agenda since president trump took office. he also said he would be selling his stake in breitbart to his daughters for personal reasons -- >> but his daughters are very personally involved. >> his daughter is as closely tied to this as robert mercer is. he is in dispute with the irs
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for back taxes, $6.8 billion. that's a big number. also think about this for a moment. steve bannon, every time you see him on the podium, rails against wall street, globalists, big money. regardless of how robert mercer feels politically, that's exactly how he made his money, is what he does. that is a tough sell if you're steve bannon and there is increased scrutiny or as steve bannon raises his profile what the outright stands for and who robert mercer is. so again, we don't know why he has stepped down. he's 71 years old. he might just want to take a break, who knows. >> look tup at ali velshi or s. ruhle. the new developments on a deadly terror attack that took place right here in new york city. authorities have charged 29-year-old -- >> sayfullo saipov for one count
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of vehicular destruction of a motor vehicle in federal court. the uzbek native was mostly quiet, sitting in a wheelchair during his court appearance. >> yesterday president trump weighed in ottn thtten thtten t suspect. >> we need quick justice and we need strong justice, much quicker and stronger than we have right now. what we have right now is a joke, and it's a laughingstock. >> mr. president, do you want the assailant from new york sent to gitmo? mr. president? >> i would certainly consider that, yes. >> are you considering that now, sir? >> i would certainly consider that. are you sending him to gitmo? i would certainly consider that, yes. >> the president is walking part that far back, tweeting, i would love to send the nyc terrorist to guantanamo, but statistically that process takes much longer than going through the federal system. there is also something appropriate about keeping him in
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the home of the horrible crime he committed. should move fast. death penalty! >> commissioner james o'neill responded to the president's charge that the u.s. justice system is a laughingstock on the "today" show. >> i get to work with our justice system every day, and in new york city it's definitely not a joke. >> joining us now, msnbc legal analyst danny sovales and mark fallon, author of "unjustifiable means, documenting the origin of the cia's techniques." i want to split this in two. because president trump's initial reaction does come from his heart. and it does speak to a lot of people in this country. i could see my dad saying, give this guy the death penalty. this shouldn't happen on our soil. our justice system is a joke. but my dad is a private citizen. when the president of the united states publicly makes a statement like that, can this guy get a fair trial? >> there are two ways of looking
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at it. in one way you can imagine the president is the head of the d.o.j and it's not that different than a u.s. attorney saying, we want the death penalty. but i hearken you back to the '70s, the charles manson case when president nixon said that charles manson was obviously guilty. it set off a fury of motion practice. and the lesson we learned from that is it's very dangerous when it comes to pretrial publicity any time the chief executive makes a comment. it might create such a prejudicial atmosphere that that person simply cannot get a fair trial that he is constitutionally entitled tochlt. >> why, when you select a jury and say, have you heard anything about this guy, every single person on the jury will say, yeah, the president said give him the death penalty. >> it's not whether or not the jury has heard the statement, but it's whether or not they can give him a fair trial based on the statement.
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>> enemy combatant lindsey graham wants the president labeled as such. what's the significance of that? should it or should it not happen? >> that's what we did after 9/11. we labeled people enemy combatants rather than prisoners of war because we did not want the geneva laws to apply. i was a chief commissioner for the military process, so i'm familiar with it, but what was an opportunity has become an opportunity lost. we have 400 prisoners still at guantanamo bay. the latest conviction was of a marine general who was in charge of the defense military commission's defense organization for contempt of court. so the only conviction we have under the trump administration at guantanamo is a marine general who is trying to do his job. >> so is it tough talk? >> we need wise talk, not tough
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talk. we need to move from tactics to strategies. what we need to do is adhere to the constitution and be the shining hill again. i think it's highly irresponsible of the president. he needs to read up so he knows consequence of torture. >> is there an idea that in the civilian system, the criminal justice system, there is a chance this guy is not served justice? >> well, there is -- what is justice? justice is a fair trial. justice is operating under the rule of law. it's not a dictatorship. the president doesn't get to decide who goes to the death penalty. juries do. we have three branches of government. we have a judicial legislative branch and an executive branch. he's merely one branch of government. we need to go back to the constitution that the founders framed for us and have fair and just trials, and that is
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justice. >> thanks very much, mark fallon. the former cia agent and author of the book. that is it for us. i'm ali velshi. >> and i'm stephanie ruhle. we hand you off to andrea mitchell for "andrea mitchell reports." right now on "andrea mitchell reports," do the math. house republicans reveal their plan to cut corporate and personal income taxes. but does it add up? >> this is it. this is a very important and special moment for our country, for all americans. trial by twitter. president trump saying the new york terror suspect should get the death penalty while slamming the country's justice system. >> we need quick justice, and we need strong justice. because what we have right now is a joke and it's a laughingstock. >> on


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