tv MSNBC Live With Alex Witt MSNBC November 4, 2017 6:00am-7:00am PDT
>> good morning, it's 6:00 in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. here's what's happening, new twist today in the russia investigation may cast an even longer shadow on the white house. the trump camp keeps downplaying the role of former adviser george papadopoulos. a new video suggests otherwise. we will bring that to you. two former presidents with fresh criminal of donald trump today. plus they reveal for the first time who they voted for in the election examining the winners and losers in the new republican tax plan. will the rich get richer and what does it men for the deficit? those details ahead. but we begin with new reaction from president trump on key developments in the russia investigation as they threat on the overshadow his historic first trip to asia. in a new interview airing
tomorrow, he had this reaction when asked if he would ever fire special counsel robert mueller is there well, i hope he is treating everything fairly. if he is, when you talk about innocence, i am truly not involved at any form of collusion with russia, believe me. >> that itself the last thing i can think of to be involved in. >> have you been told to expect to be questioned by the special counsel? >> no, nobody's told me. as far as i'm concerned, i haven't been told that we're under investigation. i'm not under investigation. >> meanwhile, former trump adviser carter image revealing for the first time that he, in fact, met with russian government officials during a july 2016 trip he took to moscow. page coming clean aboard the house intel committee thursday, confirming the meetings to the "new york times" last night. page also revealing in an interview yesterday that he told then senator jeff sessions he was traveling to moscow ahead of the trip. >> i mentioned that, you know, i'm heading over there and
totally unrelated to the campaign. it is totally in passing. >> is he the only one in the campaign that knew about the trip? >> i mentioned it to a few people. you know, it will come out. things keep leaking. >> well, turning now to president trump's high stakes asia trip. he is getting ready to go to japan. his first stop on the five-nation tour. yesterday, he arrived in hawaii. he visited the memorial at pearl harbor. nbc news' kelly o'donnell is in honolulu for us, where it is just past 3:00 p.m. talk about dedication this trip is coming amany id the heightened tensions with with north korea. much overshadowed by the russia probe. >> reporter: it is quite peaceful here at the local day. the president and first lady begin their day at honolulu w
waikiki beat. they have partner nations and asia and everything that could be discussed about north korea and the nuclear threats there. but you were right, the issues related to russia are a back drop of this trip, in part, ba us the president has been talking about it. it certainly gives us the impression he is taking the controversy along for the ride. visiting an american paradise, a working stop in hawaii. the president and first lady pay their respects at pearl harbor. >> this is very special to be in hawaii and to be visiting pearl harbor, which i have read about, spoken about, heard about and studied, but i haven't seen. >> reporter: president trump laid a wreath at the uss arizona, nearly 76 years after the attack by japan. >> that history, a sober reminder of what's at stake now with north korea. president trump attended a closed-door briefing with the pacific command.
key military leaders deeply involved in any north korea strategy. >> there's a lot of talent, a lot of tough people and talented people. >> reporter: he includes stops in japan, south korea, china, vietnam and the philippines, taking the president inside a region on edge over north korea's nuclear program. national security adviser h.r. mcmaster. >> the president recognizes we are running out of time and will ask all nations to do more. >> reporter: leaving washington friday, president trump claimed little memory of his interaction with george papadopoulos whom he once praised. >> george papadopoulos, he's an oil and energy consultant, excellent guy. >> reporter: a campaign volunteer who pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about his contacts with russia. both attended a march 2016 meeting. a former adviser also there tells nbc news, trump listened with interest as patpadopoulos
suggested a face-to-face with vladimir putin and president trump. union idea rejected by jeff sessions. >> it was an important meeting. it took place a long time, don't remember much about it. >> reporter: and in that same question and answer session with reporters as he was heading towards marine one, the president also expressed his frustration at the justice department saying that they should be looking at democrats and the hillary clinton campaign, frustrate thad they haven't been doing that. and alex, when we look ahead in this almost two-week long trip for the president the manila stop is a summit. >> that will include other nation, including russia and vladimir putin will be in attendance, so it is possible he and the president will have some time together. you mention that it's about 3:00 in the morning local time here in honolulu. that is especially notable, the president was tweeting within the last half hour, putting up a couple tweets about
economic-related issues. it sounds like it's in the president's voice as opposed to a staffer using his twitter feed. maybe jet lag is one of those things he's got to work out. he and the first lady head to tokyo later today. i will as well,ly see you from japan in the next few days. >> as we know the president has tweeted before at the very early hours, shall we say? i think you are right on the money, it's jet lag this time. >> thank you so much. joining me now, a former attorney for the office of the director of national intelligence in the law delaware she is also an adjunct professor with george town university. do you think the stories we heard from the current staffers and the president, could that amount to any kind of legal jeopardy? >> it certainly can, good morning, alex, one of the biggest things, the individuals who worked on the campaign or are in the administration now face, one of those challenges is that they all are being
interviewed by either the special counsel's office the investigators, or they're going to be called to testify before the grand jury or they're going to be called to be interviewed or testify in front of the congressional intelligence committees that are investigating this matter and in all of those circumstances, if they lied during those interviews, then they are potentially in legal jeopardy. the plea this week by mr. papadopoulos that he reached with the special count sell's office indicates that they are willing, these prosecutors are willing to charge false statements claims against individuals who lie during the course of their interviews. >> so but the derivation of false statement itself. let's use ag jeff sessions as an example. how do investigators go about determining whether the past remarks of knowledge contacts were honest cases of forgetfulness he claimed or conscious misrepresentations,
lies? >> right, so there is a difference between being in an interview with investigators and in attorney general session' case, it was his testimony before congress. so he certainly has some explaining he needs to do. probably the best case scenario for him is he is able to explain in writing in response to letters that members of that senate committee are sending to the justice department to have him explain, if he can explain why there appears to be some discrepancies between either his memory during liss testimony or what he recalls now or doesn't recall now. >> that would be good for him to correct. whether or not that turns out to be intentional misrepresentation, we'll just have to see. >> so, now you have former trump campaign foreign policy adviser gorge papadopoulos, he's pled guilty with his contacts with russia. he is cooperating with mueller's probe as a part of a plea deem. what kind of terms do you expect to be in a deal like that?
>> well, his plea agreement certainly would depend on his continued cooperation. so he struck that agreement. it was filed just this past week in october, but he has been cooperating since his arrest in july. so there's a period of time that he had to cooperate. what the plea agreement sedates is that he made multiple false statements during the course of his interview, but they only, they permitted him to plead to one count, which then lessens the consequences for him when it gets to the point of that being resolved. so, certainly, his cooperation during that period before the plea aagreement was actually filed and his continuing cooperation would be necessary for that plea to go forward. >> so there's this one count that you say he's been charged with, in terms of leniency for his sentencing, how impactful
does his information have to be to get leniency? >> well, again, it will depend on the special counsel and those prosecutors ongoing assessment of his koormgs. so i mean his plea agreement really is sort of, it's important for him and in terms of the information that came out in his plea, new information that was learned certainly from the public perspective. it's also informative to everybody else, who will be interviewed by the special counsel's office or is going to have to testify that their truthfulness has consequences or their lack of truthfulness has consequences. >> but what is the likelihood that there is more that he has told them that we did not learn from the indictment? >> oh, i would say there is certainly more that he has informed the investigators that is not contained in his plea agreement. so his plea agreement contains a certain amount of information, but i think it's almost certain that there is more information that he has provided or leads that he has provided that then
enable them to go out and conduct interviews or request other documents or try to verify the information that he's provided that still is not in the public realm. >> and thank you for correcting me. it was a plea agreement there not indictment. i want to ask you about this the president who has drawn scrutiny for tweets on the indictment, including this one belittling the role of george papadopoulos, calming him a liar. could that amount to obstruction of justice? if it could, who makes that call? >> so the special counsel's charge that they were given by the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and in his acting capacity, enables the special counsel's office to investigate matters that may arise from their broader investigation into russian influence in the election and whether or not any members of the campaign cooperated in that effort. so obstruction of justice, obstruction of this investigation, certainly falls within the per view of the special counsel's investigation.
on the issue of the president's tweets, obviously, the presents sort of a bigger problem that this president has with not keeping his finger off of the, his phone or whatever he is tweeting with, with respect to ongoing special counsel or justice department activities or investigations. it really just is beyond the bounced of normal protocol and policy with respect to the justice department, the white house, for white house official, including the president to be commenting consistently on ongoing investigations. >> all right. good to see you. thank you so much for flying in, we appreciate it. >> thank you. in just a moment, both the former president bushes speak out about president trump. he is probably not going to like it very much. we now know who they voted for in the election. ahead, calculating the fallout from the gop bill, does the president have the chops to convince republican opponents to okay the cuts?
causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember.
listen up, heart disease. you too, unnecessary er visits. and hey, unmanaged depression, don't get too comfortable. we're talking to you, cost inefficiencies, and data without insights. and fragmented care, stop getting in the way of patient recovery and pay attention. every single one of you is on our list. at optum, we're partnering across the health system to tackle its biggest challenges.
i don't remember much about that meeting. it was a very unimportant meeting. it took place a long time, i don't remember much about it. >> that was president trump on the role of george papadopoulos played in the campaign as the campaign tries to distance himself from the former adviser since learning about his guilty plea this last monday. let's bring in heidi briz bill przybyl la, erica, is there any conventional wisdom on what the most potentially damaging aspect is of papadopoulos apparently cooperating with mueller's investigation? >> reporter: well, it could go if any number of directions. interestingly, you played the clip there of the president
saying that he remembers very little about that meeting. of course, on previous occasions, he's claimed to have the best memory in the world. that's kind of a side note. but the information in the plea deal, itself, points to the potential that trump, himself, as well as the attorney general, in fact, had some knowledge of dealings of campaign aides with russian officials, which they denied and additionally, there is the fact that probably what is in the plea deal is not the entirety of what papadopoulos has told investigators, so we really don't know, it can go in any number of directions. >> getting to the specifics of what you said there, heidi the renewed scrutiny of jeff sessions over what he told congress, now what george papadopoulos revealed, sessions apparently shot down a papadopoulos pitch to set up a meeting with trump and putin, but sessions never mentioned this when asked in testimony
whether any trump company folks had contacts with russians. so how big a problem is this? >> reporter: of course, alex the big news in the past 24 hours is sessions was also apparently told by carter page in another exchange about his meeting going to russia. and here's the problem for jeff sessions. in isolation, any one of these incidents could be very plausible that he just didn't recall having been told about the campaign's official or unofficial contacts with russians. but taken together, they do present a troubling pick for some members of congress like al franken, who say that jeff sessions potentially even perjured himself before congress, because you take papadopoulos meeting, you take the carter page meeting, then you take session' own meeting with sergei kislyak and that raises suspicions by members of congress who now want to bring him back before congress to question him again about what he
few, becau knew, because he said he didn't recall any meetings with the russians. now, carter page says his meeting was unofficial, but, of course, now we're learning that he went there. he actually met with russian officials and that he came back and he briefed members, he sent electronic communications to members of the campaign. we know he's told sessions and he's also in his closed door testimony said, raised the prospect that he told additional people in the campaign as well. so it's a problem for sessions. and it's a problem for anybody else whose name may emerge on that list. >> but, erica, carter page says, yes, i'm going unofficially, but this was in the middle of a presidential campaign and he was working with the campaign. what in the world did they expect they were going to talk about, like a dinner menu? clearly, russians met with him to talk with him about something. so how unofficial is unofficial?
>> reporter: i mean, carter page's various accounts of what his role has been the purpose of his visit to russia, another visit he had to another country where he talks about traveling on the danube and take income a jazz club, it's been just all very kind of testing the bounds of credulity all along, so now we know that, in fact, he had official meetings and yet he says now that they weren't very important, that it was a hello, good-bye, well, can we believe that either? so, who knows? >> yeah, heidi this week, an article in "vanity fair" suggesting a gloomy scene inside the west wing, is it more because aides feel they are targeted or is eight concern the russian investigation is getting closer to the president? >> if you noticed, alex the tweeting when the indictment of manafort by the president was
going wild, because all along this white house has said that whatever manafort charges he faces had nothing to do with the campaign. well, when the papadopoulos news broke, that all stopped and sent a chill through the west wing, because that now implies that it was during the campaign papadopoulos, whether you want to call him a low level aid, a copy boy, volunteer, whatever was happening, he was talking to the russians an conveying information to officials and the similarity you see here in the white house' tactic is whoever is kind of outed as having these contacts with russian official, weather papadopoulos or carter page is always minimized, their role is always minimizeed.n well, for those officials to get to your question in the white house, this brings them directly -- this brings the story directly to their doorstep. it brings the question of what they knew about it to deer doorstep. we still have very little
information in the public sphere, alex, in terms of what kind of electronic communications were going on during the campaign, who else knew about it, and also who else within the west wing may be actively participating. in other words, not to sound paranoid, who may be wearing a wire. >> yeah. i want to turn now heidi to a new book on presidents bush 41 and 43 in which they criticize this president. according to "new york times," h.w. told the author he voted for hillary clinton in the general election, w. voted for none of the above. but they voted all republican down ballot. many of the interviews with the bushes were conducted, what do you make of the heightened presidents and how do you think this resonates within the party? >> you see this is a part of a trend, alex. you see this is at a time when john mccain is speaking south, when bob corker is speaking out, when george bush. george w. bush gave a notable
speech. i think part of it is a very deep seeded concern among the foreign policy establishment, which, by the way, was the one holdout that was very significant during the campaign that president trump couldn't get any of the traditional foreign policy advisers to line up behind him at a time when he is seen as potentially provoking or stumbling into war with north korea. i think that it's reached a level of concern that is beyond just the haphazard tweets we have seen of this administration. then also in terms of the cultural tensions that are being stoked, i think it's a moment for these establishment republicans who see this coming potential train wreck at the end of this year, where you have steve bannon threatening to primary all of these republicans, who aren't lining up behind trump and instilling fear in the party among these republicans to express their loyalty to trump.
i think they see it as a time or the time to start speaking out more strongly, but i would note at the same time, there is another republicans who come under criticism for not speaking out, for example, where is colon powell? where is condi rice? so this is a discussion i think you will see more strongly as well in the new year. i want to ask you about female members of colleagues in the house, harassment, is this in your sense a tip of the iceberg? are we seeing mary bono? she was quite forthcoming with her experience? >> yeah, i think if the tip of the iceberg as far as we know that harassment of female aides, congressional aides, interns, low ranking legislative assistants, really is quite pervasive. and i think we will hear a lot more stories coming out from staffers. my report, as you've mentioned, focused on members of congress,
themselves. i don't know, i'm sure there is more out there, particularly stories that members could tell about when they 1st arrived on the hill, within they were, you know, young, new to congress, which is the period that this happened and for mary bono and the others who spoke to us. i don't know how many other members of congress will come out telling their own stories. some, in fact, were quite surprised that this had happened to members, because often by the time a woman arrives on the hymn, she is more senior. she is older. she's served already. that's not always the case. there are some who arrive younger and those are the ones who were victimized. however, congressional leaders are now taking this very seriously. it's been a wake-up call, speaker ryan sent a letter to other members yesterday suggesting that they take sexual harassment training and make it
mandatory for staffs. there's going to be a hearing on this issue. there may be legislation. so this is a story that will develop. >> ladies, good to see you both. thank you so much former trump campaign aide carter page now admits he met russian government officials. but we didn't know with whom until now. my next guest will tell us. remember that accident i got in with the pole, and i had to make a claim and all that? is that whole thing still dragging on? no, i took some pics with the app and... filed a claim, but... you know how they send you money to cover repairs and... they took forever to pay you, right? no, i got paid right away, but...
at the very end of it all, my agent... wouldn't even call you back, right? no, she called to see if i was happy. but if i wasn't happy with my claim experience for any reason, they'd give me my money back, no questions asked. can you believe that? no. the claim satisfaction guarantee, only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it.
. >> welcome back, everyone, i'm alex witt. the new details on the investigation into russian meddling in the 2016 u.s. election. carter page confirming to the house intelligence committee he, indeed, met with a russian official during the 2016 campaign season. my next guest got page to name names and broke her scoop on twitter last night. tell us what you have learned, natasha, good morning. >> good morning, parter page met with a russian official who is the deputy prime minister.
and he was appointed in 2012. he's considered a very important figure in russian politic, he was apparently there after carter page gave this speak at the new economics school to do a meet and grief. he said hello briefly. they met for a few moments and said our greeting lasted longer than my meeting with dvorkovich. he consistently tried to downplay his interaction with arkady. there is a question now of why this is coming out. >> we also this week from the unsealed court documents that trump campaign foreign policy adviser george papadopoulos, he, indeed, pled guilty of lying to the fbi about. that we've learned about this meeting on march 31 of last year, when he floated the idea to then candidate trump, do you want me to set up a meeting with russian president vladimir
putin? jeff sessions shoots that down. why did trump officials not come clean in the first place about this? it's almost like the coverup is worse than the crime. this was somebody proposed something and it was immediately shot down. why not talk about it? >> it has been a consistent pattern by the trump administration, things keep coming out. you wonder, why didn't they dispel this in the first place, i think the real question that's going to need to be answered is who did george papadopoulos tell on the campaign about these e-mails that he was told about by this overseas professor with alleged kremlin ties? that was in april? so while the march 31st meeting is extremely important, it show what is donald trump may or may not have known about beginning interaction with government official, after late april when papadopoulos was told the russian government had essentially stolen e-mails and wanted to give them to trump campaign, who did he inform about that? why was he trying so hard over the next couple months to organize this meeting between
the putin campaign and officials. ? it took this guilty plea to jog session' memory saying the president is also saying now he does not remember much about this meeting, although famously, he said he has one of the best memories ever. but he says it was, you know, an insignificant meeting, didn't mean all that much. what do you make of their reactions? >> it's to be expected, as soon as the, you know, things started coming out about paul manafort's vulnerability, they started distancing themselves from paul man a forkts a chairman. he was a volunteer. now they say they don't remember this foreign policy meeting at the end of march. it could have been for a candidate who was in the middle of a campaign at the time, it must have been for him inconsequential. >> that being said, he did not shoot down the meeting when papadopoulos, you know, pitched it. he said, apparent liss his interest was piqued.
he didn't say yes or no. i have been told by a campaign official to push back against this narrative, just because he was a volunteer he wasn't important. so many people were, in fact, volunteers, including manafort. >> thank you so much. always food reporting. let's bring in analyst jonathan alter, also a columnist for the daily beast joining us shortly, jonathan, with a good day to you. >> good morning. >> can jeff sessions make the case that he honestly did not recall the contacts? how far does that argument get him? >> well, you know, he got into hotter water this week because al franken, senator al franken sent him a letter that pretty much indicated there were real signs he may have perjured himself in testifying before a senate committee. just saying things that were not so. not, i don't remember, but i had no such meetings. these quotes are not accurate. that was the gist of it.
so, it wasn't just pleading poor memory. he actually said that there were, you know, no discussions, not just between him and russians but between anybody on the trump campaign. i think that's going to come back to haunt jeff sessions. >> okay. kerry joins us now, what a good day to you. we are also learning more of the role george papadopoulos played as a foreign adviser, a volunteer for the campaign t. white house has been describing him and repeatedly saying he just had a limited roam. again, he w -- role. he was a volunteer. public records reveal papadopoulos represented the campaign, including on this panel, the vo the american jewish committee during last year's republican national convention. do you agree, there seems to be a bit of a pattern here, downplaying key facts of russian contacts and anyone involved with that? >> alex, hello, good morning. look, there are many, many panels, many, many boards, many
advisory committees that are on any campaign and i think also when you look at the hillary clinton campaign and the dfc the fact that they don't recall spending millions and millions of dollars for the russian dossier, that's indicative of how complex and free wheeling these campaigns can be. that's something important to put in mind. i do think inspector mueller is doing a great job of bringing it to light. at the end of the day we will find out what actually happened. >> again, what i want to know is why with regard to all of these people that are on campaigns, why are they down playing that these people are representing them? >> reporter: well, because he just pled guilty to perjury. i don't think anyone would want to do a big hug and kiss to wlon who had done that. i think the reality is the truth that he was not a central figure in the campaign, you know, i could represent any number of people on a panel at a
conference and the meet and greet in a public setting. >> input happening on a campaign. i ultimately think the truth will prevail. i hope that trump and it seems that trump has taken a different tactic. i think at first he was obstinant about this whole process. i think he thankfully has been more open. >> natasha happens to be on the set. i want to ask, your sense of papadopoulos and his sense of his role in the campaign. are you agreeing with with what kerry is say something. >> papadopoulos felt bold enough to continue reaching out to high level members of the campaign through september in order to 'ich this meeting. he was shot down by jeff sessions, allegedly and j.d. gordon, but throughout the entire campaign, sam clovis was telling him, good work.
we would need to mitigate the negative press. if you are able you should go to russia. he actually said that in august so there was a consistent effort not being shot down. the question is why. >> do you have a role in the mueller investigation? >> very significant. that was the big news. first of all, it's been established there was collusion so we can set that to rest. collusion is necessarily illegal, we don't know yet, whether it is in this case. but this meets the definition of collusion by the trump campaign, when have you people representing the campaign, somebody in the washington post interview donald trump said it was a major adviser. he read a short list and papadopoulos' name was on it. having connection with the russians. the big thing could be whether he wore a wire last summer after
he was quietly arrested. and for some time it wasn't clear to the trump people he had turned states evidence. what we corner know is what might be on that wire. or if there is not a wire, what he will testify to when he goes out after higher ups. >> meaning wearing the wire, if he did that it was a part of a flee deal is what you are suggest something. >> that's right. we don't know that happened, alex. but there is some speculation that could have happened. that's certainly the way prosecutor versus operated in the past. even if he did not wear a wire, he is a mortal threat to a number of people inside that trump campaign. you don't know whether he is to donald trump. >> jonathan, with all due respect, i don't know that a mortal threat is the type of phrasing that anyone can or should use at this point. we have a thing called the constitution, which includes the due process. so i think the speculation that's happening in the press is a part of why trump won in terms of just looking at this overwhelming liberal bias in the
main stream media. i just don't think the average trump voter cares about that. they care about tax reform, they care about the fact that the house is right now undertaking a mounting -- >> i agree with those important issues. i want to ask you, what itself your response to the fact that a majority of the americans now believe the president committed a crime? >> again, i hope the truth will come out. i am confident in inspector mueller, the evidence will come out. the evidence has not confirm this. we need to stop arresting to judgment. we need to respect due process. >> thank you so much all three of you. coming up, do the republicans have the political will and the tax cuts become a reality by christmas or whatever? i'll be speaking to jared bernstein ahead. and were pumped to open my own salon. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer.
so i talked to my doctor and she prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain from moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and i love grooming the next generation. ask your doctor about lyrica.
without pg&e's assistance, without their training our collaboration with pg&e is centered around public safety. we could not do our mission to keep our community safe. anytime we are responding to a structure fire, one of the first calls you make is for pg&e for gas and electric safety. it's my job to make sure that they have the training that they need to make the scene safe for themselves and for the public. it's hands-on training actually turning valves, turning systems off, looking at different wire systems all that training is crucial to keeping our community safe and our firefighters safe. together, we're building a better california. . >> sizing up the pain and treasure of the gop tax cuts. up next the bottom line when it comes to dollars, demographics
and democratic opposition. nbc news obtained a memo with the deal with the dnc, a former checkpoint adviser talks about that late this morning on at am joy." ♪ spread a little love today ♪ spread a little love my-y way ♪ ♪ spread a little something to remember ♪ philadelphia cream cheese. made with fresh milk and real cream makes your recipes their holiday favourites. the holidays are made with philly.
. >> republicaning insist their tax cuts and jobs bills will bring relief to america's middle class. >> this plan the for the middle class companies that deserve a break, they're auto there living pay check to paycheck that keep getting squeezed. >> the big winners could be corporations with a 15% tax cut and wellingthy americans with a repeal of the state tax and alternative minimum tax joining me former adviser to joe biden. your interpretation of all of this, are more middle class americans pay less? >> actually millions will pay more. up with of the hidden problems with this plan, with i is coming out now that we're able crunch a
lot of details. it's a very complex piece of work, 400 pages. >> exactly. >> it's going to find i would guess well over 10 million middle income families will pay higher tacks because of this plan. these will be families who itemize deductions, take the itemized deductions, which now some of which are going to be eliminated. they're families that live in blue states, typically, big states where state and local taxes will no longer be exempt. those are going to lift taxes. the personal exemption, this is an important tax break to families with numerous kids, now, lots of middle class families will get a tax break, it's going to be very small. we are seeing numbers that suggest middle class households might pay half a percent, a percent less in taxes, while those at the top will pay, you know, five, six, 8% less. >> sow mentioned the state and
local taxes, the property taxes, but there are other deductions that are going away here, there's the credits for elderly and disabled, adoptions, student loans, tax preparation, medical expenses, alimony, moving expenses, the medical savings accounts, the unreimbursed business expense, educator expenses, meanwhile, you bought the to super rich. they're going to save $172 billion on estate taxes, 696 billion on alternative minimum taxes, $847 billion on corporate taxes. >> yeah, that's exactly the right way to think about this. in other words with retakic away from a bunch of folks who itemize these sort of deductions. now, if are you someone with a lot of kids you lose from getting rid of the personal exemption, if you have high medical expenses and you used to itemize those against the tax liability. will you lose here, if you're at the other ends, one of these
very few tiny sliver of families, the wealthiest of the states will benefit from the estate tax cut, you are going to win much bigger from this, so in that sense, you are kind of taking away from peter to pay very, very rich upper paul. >> let me talk about some jobs here. 261,000 jobs added in october. that shrinks the unploichlts rate to 4.1%, the lowest in 17 years. the president up early in honolulu tweeting to this fact and saying that he has created 1.5 million new jobs since taking office. he mentioned the stock market being the highest ever. how much credit does he get? >> just about zero. that said, pretty much every president will tout a strong jobs report. but his fingerprints are on none of this. this is momentum that he inherited purely. and getting back to the tax debate, there still are a lot of people left behind even in what i will tell you is a strong job
market recovery. we know there are pockets who have yet to catch a buzz from the job market. wage trends are still too flat for too many people. those folks will depend on the kind of programs that will ultimately have to be cut to pay for this big wasteful regressive tax cut. >> jared bernstein, always good to see you. thank you. up next, how republicans are defending giving tax cuts to america's richest. y street, y street, in every town, across america. small businesses show their love to you. with some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town. that's why american express is proud to be the founding partner of small business saturday. a day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. so, on november 25th get up, get out, and shop small.
okay, i picked out my dream car. now's the really fun part. choosing the color, the wheels, the interior, everything exactly how i want it. here's the thing: just because i configured this car online doesn't mean it really exists at a dealership, but with truecar, i get real pricing on actual cars in my area. i see what others paid for them, and they show me the ones that match the car i want, so i know i can go to a truecar-certified dealer and it'll be right there waiting for me... today, right now. this is truecar.
we're back now with the potential political fallout of the republican tax bill. back in with jonathan alter and kerry she havele joining me. is there an yushd lining assumes that the average measure cannot tell will they be better or worse off? are you not hearing me? you just heard me. i think he's not hearing me. so let me ask the question to you, kerry. is there is a general assumption that the average american just don't know, will they be better off or worse off with what we're
hearing from capitol hill? >> well, part of why trump won is that middle america, average america, working class america feels like they have been left behind and that is why they voted trump into office. so the grass roots on organizations like the one i work with generation opportunity which is part of americans for prosperity, we signed on to a coalition letter, 23 conservative groups, they strong and unified behind this bill because we know it will put more money into the pockets of workers. j jared bernstein even admitted that middle class americans will see an increase in their take home pay because of this. and especially for young people, they will be able to double their deduction in terms of what they can tdeduct. job creators, "wall street journal" had an excellent piece this morning looking at the fact that this plan rye wards job creators. it does not reward the wealthy people who are just earning a salary. it's not for them, it's for
people who are innovators, job creators. jo jonathan, democrats where slamming there bill as a handout to the wealthy and it will hurt the middle class the most and there is no denying that parts of it will give the wealthy major tax cuts. will democrats be able to squawk loudly enough about this, will they let this go? is there going to be some sort of a compromise do you think ultimately that gets this thing passed or will it be dead in the water? as chuck schumer wants by the way. >> republicans have a lot riding on this, they need some kind of accomplishment, so they will probably have something. but a lot of people are hurt by this. anybody with significant medical expenses won't be able to detemptth dudeduct them. might be with a state income tax won't be able to deduct them. so this bill hurts a lot of people and i think it will get picked apart.
>> okay. thank you for joining me. sorry about your audio problems. new york rop republicans want t negotiate parts of the tax bill that they say are a deal breaker. today at 1:00, claudia tenney will tell us what she wants changed. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water. so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and. do you have the coverage you need? open enrollment ends december 7th. don't put it off 'til later. now's the time to get on a path that could be right for you... with unitedhealthcare medicare solutions. call today to learn about the kinds of coverage we offer,
including aarp medicarecomplete plans insured through unitedhealthcare. these medicare advantage plans can combine parts a and b, your hospital and doctor coverage... with part d prescription drug coverage, and extra benefits... all in one complete plan... for a low monthly premium, or in some areas no plan premium at all. unitedhealthcare doesn't stop there. you'll have $0 co-pays for preventive services... like an annual physical and most immunizations. you can also get routine vision and hearing coverage... and a fitness membership. for prescriptions, you'll pay the plan's lowest price, whether it's your co-pay or the pharmacy price. or pay as low as zero dollars for a 90-day supply of your tier 1 and tier 2 drugs, delivered right to your door. in fact, our medicare advantage plan members... saved an average of over $5,000 last year.
so call or go online today to enroll, and enjoy these benefits and more, like renew by unitedhealthcare, our health and wellness experience, where you can earn rewards for making healthy choices. your healthcare needs are unique. that's why, with 40 years of medicare experience, we'll be there for you we can even help schedule your appointments. open enrollment ends december 7th. if you're medicare eligible, call now and talk to unitedhealthcare about our plans, like aarp medicarecomplete. let's get you on the right path. call unitedhealthcare or go online to enroll. sfx: mnemonic
and that wraps up this hour of msnbc i'll see you again at noon, but now a.m. joy starts right now. i'm really not involved with the justice department. i'd like to on let it run itself, but honestly, they should be looking at the democrats. they should be looking at podesta and all of that dishonesty. they should be looking at a lot of things and a lot of people are disappointed in the justice department including me. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." there is nothing