tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 7, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
ever. not just the tragic figures of our time. dr. martin luther king and the kennedy brothers. but bob dylan, great songs like "eve of destruction." now it's all coming closer again. not best of reasons, i think. people of all ages are feeling the pull of a time when leaders spoke of values, when people sat around and argued the great issues of war and peace, and the individual versus the nation. we look with envy at a time when people thought big and put their competing hope lts aside. well, tonight, today, we have a president who never speaks of right or wrong, who never cites a moral compass for himself or country are, acts as if the only thing that matters on this earth is the act itself, his act. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> when you talk about innocent, i am truly not involved in any form of collusion with russia. >> the president's bodyguard grilled on the hill. >> i'm no stranger to putting my
hands on people. >> new russian contacts and the bombshell testimony of carter page. >> it was one of the weirder depositions i've sat through. >> and how the page testimony supports key portions of the infamous steele dossier. >> i think it's sad what they've done with this fake dossier. >> my interview with the top democrat on house intelligence, adam schiff. how the cia is engaging with conspiracy theories as directed by the president. and as polls close in virginia and no one -- >> this is massive. >> my interview with donna brazile on the new book that is rocking the political world. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. it is election night across america. we have a call at this very hour. nbc news projecting democrat phil murphy will win the race for governor in new jersey. and will replace chris christie as governor. in the most-watched race so far
in the post-trump era, the governor's race in virginia, polls have been closed an hour, the early results are showing. ralph north ham with 51% of the vote. ed anggillespie with 48% of the vote. too close to call, 43% of precincts in. if you look at a lot of bellwether precincts, at turnout projections, our own steve kornacki has been carefully looking at this, comparing apples to apples. right now ed northam appears to, in terms of turnout and margin, outperforming where he would need to be to the margins hold. encouraging early set of return for ed northam and the democrats after a lot of anxiety and wringing of hands about that race. we'll have more from virginia else and-where later in the show. we begin tonight with what has become a ritual for people closely associates with the president. long-time trump aide going to
capitol hill to testify behind closed doors under oath about the president's possible ties to russia. other than family there's probably no one closer to the president than shiller, former nypd officer, became head of security at trump tower in 2005, who served as director of oval office operations before leaving the white house in september. shiller has been trump's body man, his confidant, his gate keeper. the man white house officials reportedly sought out when they wanted to know the president' mood. when trump wanted a quarter pounder with cheese shiller would head to mcdonald's on a stealth fast food run. trump entrusted she will tore hand-deliver his letter firing fbi director james comey. shiller removed journalist jorge ramos from that trump press conference in 2015 putting his hands on ramos. shiller ripped a sign away from a protester outside trump tower and then turned around and coldcocked said protester when he tried to get it back. >> oftentimes you'll find in the city cops and firemen do a lot
of side work. so -- so i said, you know, i see some -- a light goes off. i said, bodyguard, i can to this. this guy's a bodyguard? i'm a [ muted ] bodyguard. knowing that i had done over the years, you know, i'm no stranger to putting my hands on people. >> from way back. >> from way back. >> crucially, shiller was with trump when trump traveled to moscow back in 2013 for the miss universe pageant. that is when the steel dossier alleges the russians gathered compromising material about the future president. the white house was hopeful that shiller, ever the loyal lieutenant, would knock down that dossier's claims. lawyer ty cobb telling "the washington post" the white house is delighted mr. shiller will have opportunity to shed light on these scandalous allegations. but shiller's questioning under oath comes one day after the release of capitol hill testimony by none other than former trump campaign aide
carter page. a man whose comments appear to contribute some crucial parts of that dossier. including a claim that page met with high-level russian officials, something page denied to me just last week. did you brief anyone on the campaign when you got back? >> i may have mentioned a few sort of, you know, things i heard. but nothing -- nothing serious at all, yeah. >> people keep using terms like serious, official. but you told them what you did and who you talked to? >> what i said is that there's a lot of positive feedback. in general. on the street. the average person is really excited about -- >> donald trump in moscow. >> i think just in general about future possibilities. so again, i had no meetings, no serious discussions, with anyone high up or at any, you know, official capacity. >> let me ask you this -- >> this is man on the street, you know. >> congressman adam schiff, who joins me momentarily, confronted page with an e-mail page sent to
trump campaign official j.d. gordon, page saying he received incredible insights and outreach from russian legislators and senior members of the presidential administration here. page admitted to a brief conversation with, among others, russia's deputy prime minister. page also revealed steve bannon urged him not to appear on this very network. and he acknowledged lauding the trump campaign for watering down the gop platform on ukraine, making it more palatable to russia. page writing in an e-mail to j.k. gordon, "as to the ukraine amendment, excellent work." gordon said he didn't see page's e-mail and insisted he isn't the one who cleared page to go to russia. "i discouraged carter from taking the trip to moscow because it was a bad idea, since i refused to forward his speech request for approval, he went around me directly to campaign leadership." i'm joined by representative adam schiff of california, top democrat on the house intelligence committee, questioned carter page and keith shiller today.
congressman, let's start with keith shiller, was he forthcoming today? >> you know, i can't really discuss interviews. we allow the witness to disclose whether they're interviewed or not. i'm afraid i can't comment on that. >> can you tell me if he brought a lawyer or if he was there by himself? >> you know, we don't disclose the witness's participation. we leave it up to them to disclose if they choose so. i really can't at this point confirm whether he came in today. >> let's talk about carter page. what do you think you learned from carter page's very long testimony that we now have had the opportunity to look over? >> well, chris, the first thing we learned, because i asked him about it right off the bat, was what he told you on the air just a few days ago. which clearly was not accurate, and indeed what he'd been saying publicly for some time was not accurate. he represented to you and others that his meetings were essentially with the man on the street, they weren't with high-level officials, that it
was purely in his private capacity. but we learned within minutes of his interview in closed session that, in fact, he met with very high-level people, he did have private conversations, one of those was with the deputy prime minister of russia itself. but more than that, that he wrote back to the campaign in a memo in the campaign's own format that said that as a result of these meetings and discussions, he had valuable insights and outreach to report to the campaign. that is completely inconsistent, obviously, with this being a purely private endeavor. so we learned the public representations weren't accurate. we also learned more detail about a second trip that he made to russia later that year, as well as the third trip that he made to hungary at the suggestion of the hungarian ambassador, someone he met during the republican convention. >> one of the other items that you read to mr. page in your
questioning, the first that about we've heard of it i think publicly, was an e-mail he wrote congratulating the campaign team on their machinations to insert that amendment or change the amendment in the republican platform with regards to lethal weapons or lethal help to ukraine. what do you think the significance of that is? >> well, i think these memos show a number of things. they show certainly that carter page was aware of the debate during the convention and the efforts by the trump campaign to fight off an amendment that would have been stronger in terms of providing defensive weapons to ukraine. they also indicate that higher levels of the trump campaign were more than aware of his trip to russia, including notifying now-attorney general sessions, then-senator sessions, about that trip. so as well as his disclosure during testimony that he notified sam clove advice of his trip to russia. so a lot of the contacts that he
made were represented to higher levels of the campaign and that's directly -- that directly contradicts things that we've heard people like corey lewandowski say, attorney general jeff sessions say, and others within the trump campaign. >> carter page has in multiple instances attempted to minimize meetings he may have had or did have. he admitted to me that he met sergei kislyak in cleveland but said it was very brief. he admitted to meeting the deputy prime minister but said it was very brief. he said he told jeff sessions he was going to russia but it was in passing. do you trust those characterizations? >> well, i don't think we can trust these characterizations because, of course -- >> that was my interview, previously recorded, with adam schiff. we are back here to make a call. we now have nbc's own steve jer knackky who joins me to talk about the returns. what do we have after virginia? >> a winner, the tim ralph
northam. the polls were right but maybe underestimated what's going on here. ralph northam, the democrat, going to win this governor's race in virginia. big storyline that's emerging, we talked all last year about that split among white voters. the college-educated whites and noncollege, sort of a social class divide. the story with donald trump's election last we're was noncollege whites in critical battleground states. the story tonight is college-educated whites, the suburban it'ses outside washington, d.c. this is democratic better traditionally here in virginia, but it was really big democratic territory last year, they turned hard against donald trump. ed gillespie's campaign was running trump-like margins in southwest part of the state, but not getting creamed like trump did in college-educated suburbs of washington, d.c. let me take you through what happened. to give you an example in louden county, ed gillespie ran for the senate here, he won this county. last year, donald trump won it
by 17. remember the goal of gillespie, don't get blown out like trump. he got blown out worse than donald trump, 19 points in louden county. prince william county, when ed gillespie ran for the senate, lost by 3 points, trump lost by 21 points. tonight, 21 points, same thing. ed gillespie, fairfax county, they're still counting votes, only lost by 18. trump lost by 35. you're getting trump margins here. trump backlash. the trump backlash that we saw in places like this around the country, it has not subsided at all. it even expanded a little bit in virginia, looks like. when you get outside of richmond, take a look here. if you're gillespie you want to tlus 13, 14 points, it's 10 points more than that. suburbs in virginia, there is a lot of energy there. looks like it's anti-trump. we can debate, did the gillespie campaign running on trump issues, did that exacerbate it? or was it just the anti-trump
energy that's been there ins is the election last year? you're seeing ed gillespie, he didn't want to see any of these numbers. >> the gillespie approach which called trumpism, one prong got a lot of attention, the ads he was running. things on keeping the confederate statues up, about the central american gang ms-13, one about terry mcauliffe reenfranchising felons, things that played in the call tour war terrain of donald trump. he was meanwhile sending these mailers to northern virginia calling himself the son of an immigrant, talking about economic growth. what i'm hearing from you is attempting to essentially pull off that two-track campaign did not work up in those places in northern virginia? >> yeah, i mean, look. maybe it was ultimately an impossible thing that he was trying to pull off. but here with the dynamic that ed gillespie walked into was as a republican, his background obviously, he's sort of the establishment republican traditionally. his background, he did pretty
well for a republican up here when he ran for the senate a couple of years ago. he actually didn't do as well as republicans should do maybe in the rural parts of virginia. last year when donald trump was running, we're seeing trump get 75%, 85% in should have these counties. what gillespie was trying to pull off is culture issues he ran on aggressively. he was trying to get that 85% in places down here. doesn't look like he quite reached that number. but through the tactics you're talking about, he was still trying to be the ed gillespie of 2014. the ed gillespie of the bush era up here. the voters didn't buy it at all. again, this is going to be a debate, i think, was there a backlash? could it have worked without the campaign he ran? or was this just set in stone? what we are seeing in northern virginia tonight, was this just set in stone by that election result last year? by donald trump winning, by donald trump being the president, a version of the president that he was as a candidate, is northern virginia just locked into the same anti-trump position it was on election day last year? maybe even a little bit more so. if that's the case, and it's not
about the tactics of ed gillespie, that could have very significant implications for 2018. >> yeah, i want to make one more point, steve. about what was going on in virginia, which was a lot of investment also in the races for house of delegates. and there's a lot of delegate races that were contested. democrats had for a long time not contested a lot of those seats. they ran candidates in them. we're getting early returns that even members of gop leadership who had been serving in their delegation forth a very long period of time now looking neck and neck, possibly some huge, huge upsets happening in that race. we'll keep our eyes on that stick around, we'll talk more about that. nbc's garrett hick is in the ralph northam event in fir faction, virginia, what's it like there? >> yeah, chris, as we and cnn just called this race over the last few minutes, the crowd here went nuts. i don't know if you can see the room, it's not entirely full yet, they just started letting attendees into this party a
little while ago. i think even the northam nobodied didn't expect to see the race turn as quickly and decisively as it has. although they have been much more confident, the northam campaign and the folks in virginia, than i think national democrats were. the line i've been hearing from people in northam's camp, from voters in virginia today, was they felt like northam had an authenticity that connected with virginia voters in a way that maybe national democrats didn't quite appreciate. this is a guy with a southern accent, talks slowly, this is not someone who fires up the room as some kind of natural bomb-thrower resistance candidate. and yet he's been able to translate a lot of that vote while not turning off some of these more moderate counties and places that tend to lean a little bit more toward establishment republicans. you talk to steve about louden county, prince william county, the d.c. exsubs. the numbers we're seeing northam
put up have been huge. the folks here attribute it a little bit to the anti-donald trump, but also to the fact that they have, despite what national republicans were talking about what they felt like was a very good candidate for virginia. a candidate with a legitimate virginia background who was able to connect. i think we're seeing that pan out in the numbers right now. >> it's interesting, you say that about that room being partly empty, i'll take you behind the curtain here. as we were gaming out election day, virginia elections get called notoriously late because usually northern virginia, which is a huge bulk of the votes, that comes in late. hillary clinton, the state was called for hillary clinton fairly late on election night a year ago even when donald trump was shown being up in the actual vote count because of northern virginia. this decisive victory this early, getting a call at 8:15, this is a huge win for the democratic party of virginia. and for a national democratic party that has spent the last two weeks absolutely lashing itself on the back in advance
preparation of a loss in virginia. and almost starting down the pathway of the analysis of what did we do wrong? there's got to be a lot of exuberance and relief in that room. >> there really is, chris. i'll tell you, i talked to tom periello, the democrat who lost to ralph northam in the primary. ease been active campaigning not just for northam but for all the house of delegate candidates you mentioned. he said, democrats have been talking about how they need to get active in these off-year elections and these midterm elections in a serious way since at least 2010. he was hopeful this morning that they would start to see it tonight. and it looks like they have. you mentioned those delegate races. one of the theories here is that there's almost a reverse coattails effect here, where democrats have not competed in a lot of these places in virginia historically. now they've got folks on the ballot. so even if you've got a house of delegates candidate who may not do great, if they've got a couple hundred of their friends and family who are going to vote, it lifts a little bit in
all these rural counties that for a long time democrats had almost written off in places essentially sort of south and west of richmond. now all the rest of that is back in play. not to mention we're looking at a tiny, tiny fraction of fairfax county which is the behemoth blue county here in virginia which comes in historically late and will be i think enormous based on the voters i talked to. >> thank you for that. we'll probably be checking back. the point about reverse coat tails is something the folks i know in virginia have been hammering home. the activists and the sort of political operatives. and when we had the dnc chair tom perez on the other night, last night -- the weeks go by so fast. he said, look, we're competing in every house delegate race, we've got a ton of people, and you were -- tom perez, who's on the phone, the dnc chair. you pointed to that as a key part of what you were doing in your role in the democratic party, investing in the state, investing in these house delegate races. how are you feeling right now?
>> i'm feeling incredibly optimistic. the author of the anti-transgender bathroom bill just got defeated by a woman named danica rome. a transgendered woman who is a spectacular candidate. the two latino candidates, elizabeth guzman and jala jailea are both ahead, if elected they'll become the first two latinas elected in the house of delegates. it's about helping people up and down the ballot. when you have an authentic candidate at the top of the ticket as ralph northam, when the number one issue in the election is health care, and you have a healer on the democratic side and a divider on the republican side, this is a really important night. and it's not only an important night for virginia, but it's a blueprint for what we're doing everywhere. which is competing in every zip
code. telling our story. and our story is that democrats believe in health care for all. the story is that democrats believe that we should be uniting our country, not dividing our country. that's exactly what ralph northam said. that's exactly what phil murphy said in new jersey. and that's why we're winning up and down the ballot. and there's still more to come in virginia. >> you've got -- i saw someone noting right now, it's hard to keep track of all these house of delegate races, but one of the things that happened in the obama era was this hollowing out of the bench, republicans took stays house after statehouse, it gave them control of gerrymandering of congressional districts to further enmesh their power. a bunch of house of delicate candidates, a trans candidate who beat a republican who wrote a trans bathroom bill. a marine veteran who identifies as democratic socialist if who is running competitively with someone in the house gop leadership? >> that is correct.
>> the house gop whip might lose to a socialist marine veteran. is that actually happening? >> there are a lot of remarkable things going on tonight in the house of delegates races. and here's where it gets even better. i don't know whether we're anll to 17, that's the number we need, a tall order, but it's not beyond the pale give where things are moving. it's important to know there was a lawsuit filed because of the partisan gerrymander in virginia. and we've already won that lawsuit. so a court is going to be redistricting next year to make the districts fair. even with an unlevel playing field, look what we've been able to do tonight. and in the months ahead, a court will be redrawing lines in a way that will create fairness. virginia is not a 66/34 state. it never was. but as a result of the 2009 election, that's what happened. and the illustration of this race, chris, 2017, 2018 cycle
races, these are 14-year, 13-year election cycles because these governors are going to control redistricting. that's why tonight is so important. it's a new day in virginia, it's a new day in america, it's a new democratic national committee. >> all right, tom perez, we may be checking back with you. thank you for hopping on the phone. i want to reset for those joining us, on this the first national election night in the donald trump era. and some good news so far for the democratic party which was hoping for good news after last year. phil murphy who is the democratic candidate for governor. he is projected to be the winner in new jersey. he's being lieutenant governor kim kwan dawn know, lieutenant governor for chris christie, whose approval rating is around 15%. that was a heavy baggage for her to carry. the one that had democrats chewing their fingernails down to the bone was virginia. ralph northam way, way ahead of
any -- anywhere i think anyone thought, projected winner with northern virginia still out, defeating ed gillespie, who won a narrow bid for senate just three years ago. my colleague chuck todd is on the phone now. chuck, there was so much anxiety and focus on this race. what do you make of tonight's results? >> well, the data, the results matched the data. i think, you know, why there was so much anxiety that i noted even with the people that were looking at the data and all of that on the northam campaign themselves, they had their own anxiety, was because they were sitting in this exact same moment a year ago. >> right. >> on one hand. so there's a little bit of that going on, that anxiety. but frankly, even in virginia, four years ago, if you remember, all the numbers pointed to this big mac equal live win and it turned out to be a nail biter. i don't think we called that rate until the 10:00 hour.
basically we had to wait to see if northern virginia was going to perform like northern virginia before we could call that race. tonight, what you're seeing is the -- it looks like a bad environment for republicans, but you're not sure if the tactics are going to work. going in it looked like this was going to be a bad environment for them. but the question was, how much were the voters going to punish the republican party in virginia for president trump? i think we got an answer. this is a wipe-out for the democrats tonight. this looks like they're going to sweep all three of those state races and they're going to have a good night on this. right now i think they're going to have a good night. we'll see when the returns are in but this looks like it's going to be a big win for democrats tonight. i think you're going to have a lot of republicans waking up tomorrow morning going, and the debate's going to be, hm, is trump that much of a problem?
or was ed gillespie -- the base knew he wasn't really trump. the base knew he wasn't of them. i think that's going to be an interesting debate tomorrow morning in that postmortem on the right. >> it's a great point. because one of the things we'll see is turnout and sort of raw terms. what we did see is we have high turnout in areas that are traditionally democratic, particularly college-educated voters in northern virginia, very big turnout numbers. we'll look at what those turnout numbers were in the trump-heavy areas. some of the early return i saw showed gillespie doing trump kind of margins but nowhere near the raw vote totals, to your point about whether he was able to get those people out. and particularly in these off-year elections, as we learned during the obama era, mon who turns out their voters becomes the determining factor in a lot of cases. >> especially in the off-off year, right? very much so. i think, for instance, that's what four years ago taught us a
lot, which was when that was a base versus base. and you realize, boy, you sort of hinted that the dem base was not fully enthused and that's why mcauliffe perhaps narrowly won. this is a different story. the turnout numbers. arlington county, fairfax county, which is basically the two -- the heart and soul of when you hear us talk about northern virginia, for those not familiar with northern virginia, those are two massive counties population-wise. and they hit their 2013 turnout numbers. i think arlington county did it at 3:30, 3 1/2 hours before polls closed. and fairfax county did it about 5:00, two hours before polls closed. so lower turnout in most trump areas, higher turnout in northern virginia. it's going to make that debate inside the party actually that much more complicated. >> and you know, tonight is the first night, i remember two big moment in the early obama years,
scott brown's special election, then the next year when chris christie won that race in new jersey in solid blue new jersey. and that was the beginning of -- the beginning of what would become the tea party wave in 2010, also beginning of reckoning with what the political backlash to the obama era would look like. we've had a bunch of special elections in which democratic victories didn't materialize at least in the congressional level, and a question about whether some similar kind of pendulum swing was in the offing, which i think was the source of that anxiety. and tonight at least just looking at these returns, it looks like the terrain broadly has shifted from a year ago. >> chris, if a transgender candidate wins and the democratic socialist candidate wins, i think that tells you that, yes, i think the terrain is there. >> yes. >> i am not convinced -- i am not convinced that most of the voters that voted in that race
probably knew about the transgender issue. i don't know that that's the case. how familiar were voters some how many weren't in there and just say, i'm looking for the "d." because i'm punishing the "r." or whatever the reason is. that's the stuff that's going to make -- give paul ryan heartburn tonight, frankly, and thinking about things going forward. do democrats in the next time you talk to tom perez ask him this, because there's not been a lot of evidence. if democrats take -- what's the lesson they take away from virginia? >> absolutely. >> how do they apply to it alabama? do they try to make a point in alabama, realizing there is terrain there, don't walk away from it. >> that is a great point. a huge, huge implication for what the democratic party decides to do with doug jones, their candidate running in that special election in the senate
in alabama. chuck todd, thanks for that, appreciate it. i'm joined by "hardball" host, the one and only chris matthews. chris, what do you make of this? >> well, i think -- i just want to add to that. it's about morale. the people working in doug jones' campaign down in alabama, people working hopefully against kelley ward in arizona, in the nevada, anywhere where it's conceivable that a democrat can win, they're going to be thinking victory tonight. they're going to think, this is a switch, as norman mailer called it, a switch of the cosmos where everything shifts. voters have crude tools to use to send a signal. basically when there's no presidential election, they've got to grab every weapon they've got and send the signal they don't like this president and his behavior. they just don't like it. they think it's not what we want as a leader in this country. i think the fact that the people, all the lines today, all the lines of the ballot, they said, i'm going to take this line and use that against trump. i only got a few grenades to throw, i'm going to throw them
all. i do think if i'm working in alabama in a senate race i thought was a long shot, i'm now thinking, this is doable, i'm going to work my butt off. same in arizona, same in nevada. if i were the rnc i'd be thinking, get the people with the walls right now and start protecting everything you got because everything's vulnerable. the reason i say that is because even with the issue of the monuments, and i understand the sense, i went to school in north carolina, i understand the sensitivity of people about the south and its history. it's not all about slavery. the war was about slavery. but the history, the texture of the south, the whole thing. i understand where 60% of the voters told exit pollsters they want to keep the monuments. but they didn't vote that way. >> that's right. >> so interesting. they voted on health care. >> that's right. >> they voted that things that matter in their lives. >> i don't know if we have that board up. the top issue was health care. >> right. >> and a lot of theme noticed gillespie was trying to make this race -- he sent a mailing
out with a football player kneeling. >> that worked. >> i'm glad you brought that up. because look, republicans and democrats alike have learned how hot and how much it burns when you touch the health care stove. and let's not forget that republicans took a run at repealing obamacare and failed and still may be paying the political consequences. >> they're still at it. >> without a bill to show for it. >> they're still threatening. as long as they threaten, the democrats are going to have that issue on their side. i think the only bad news for democrats, and this is really reaching for bad news because there really isn't any -- the notion somehow all politics as see-saw, that if trump goes really down in the polls then democrats are going to start to look good, and you've got to be careful about that. i think democrats should have a morale boost like they've never had tonight. but they have to say, now we got to get out there and sell something. we got to sell something, whether a better health care program, a jobs program, something. think they've got to be -- that's just me talking. i think it's a good night for the democrats. i don't want to take any of the joy out of it. they beat the hell out of this guy who pretended to be a
trumpst trumpster. gillespie is a washington lobbyist, he's knee-deep or head-deep in the swamp. he's part of the problem trump ran against. he is a catholic u. grad from new jersey, he's not stonewall jackson. he tried to run as his grandson, you know? it just didn't work. people are not stupid. >> well, ed gillespie, proud son of emerson township, guarantor of the legacy of robert e. lee. chris matthews, thanks for making time. all right, big night. big election night. we've got big results. people are still processing the scope of what's happened in virginia because this was projected to be a nail biter, it is not, it is over. it appears the projected winner ralph northam. down-ballot, democrats would have to pick up 18 seats in the house of delegates to flip that chamber. that seemed absolutely impossible just a few weeks ago. they still might do that.
night in america. the first national election since donald trump was elected president. we've got some calls. in new mexico, phil murphy is the projected winner there. he's the democrat. he's running against the lieutenant governor kim qua dawn know. in virginia, what was project a nail biter and conventional wisdom in the political press was ralph northam was going to blow it, gillespie would win, it but no, we called it for ralph northam by 5 appoints. we've got a lot of votes to come in. that's going to be a example margin. not only that it appears democrats have picked up at least maybe a dozen seats in the house of delegates. there's a medicaid expansion item on the ballot in maine. there's some early returns from that we will be looking at. so right now it's looking like the best night for democrats in an election since that night last year. i'm join the by donna brazile, main you've heard of her, former interim chair of the dnc, author of "hacks: the inside story are the break-ins and breakdowns
that put donald trump in the white house." you've been making a lot of news with this book, a lot of people angry. >> a lot of people tonight are celebrating what's happening in virginia. >> you're celebrating. they were going to come for you. they were going to blame you if northam -- i saw people writing the story about donna brazile being responsible for depressed virginia turnout. >> a month ago i went to help raise money. i went out two weeks ago to kick off a canvassing campaign. tonight's story is about these delegate races. everyone was out there two weeks ago, out there knocking on doors. i'm proud of the virginia democratic party, i'm proud of the new jersey democratic party, i'm proud of what's going on in maine. also i am proud that tom perez is invested in down-ballot races. that's what we should have been doing last year, we're doeg it now and that's great. >> we had tom on last night, top night, he was talking about that. what does this mean -- i mean, i want to talk about the book but it's funny to sort of have passed through the curtain of
time to after the election. because so much of the controversy around it was this -- i think an epi-phenomenon of the nervousness people had about this race in virginia. >> of course. >> what does this mean for the democratic party, these returns? >> turnout, turn outer, turnout. offseason election, democratic turnout plummeted. this year in northern virginia, down in the tidewater area, we see democrats coming out, in richmond in college towns. this is a good sign the democratic party is coming back to life. >> you were on the ground, talking about down-ballot races, tom periola, former virginia congressman, was spearheading part of the effort to get those delegate races going. do you think this is a kind of bottom-up coat tails? the national analysis is going to be, this is an anti-trump vote. >> of course, and it should be. this is the first year after the presidential election as you know. the president sort of controls the tempo.
this is about those down-ballot races. i mentioned in my book, talked about the energy that you need in order to win at the top. you've got to get the grassroots involved. you've got to get people to carry your yard signs, wear your buttons. what i saw in virginia, i saw a lot of young people working for state delegate races. that's the energy. >> there's a question about a year after that election. >> yes. >> we'll get to some of the stuff in the book. a year after the election, a question about what is the democratic party? fill in the blank. the democratic party is the party that? >> believes in not just the working class, but we believe that our party stands for opportunity for all. we want to level the playing field. we want every american to be able to get a head start in life and a healthy start. that's who we are. that's what you heard ralph talking about in virginia. that's what you're seeing in maine. that is what doug jones is talking about in alabama. >> wasn't that hillary clinton's message too? wasn't it the message of -- the thing about that message is that
that sounds like a message that was the message of a party that got absolutely slaughtered in down-ballot race in the obama era. >> chris what we heard last year is, is she likeable? what we heard was the sound of donald trump tweeting at 6:15 a.m. and the media blowing every tweet into a big, major story. we didn't see all the policy positions she put out. we didn't hear her message to working class. what we heard was, of course, the sound of 140 characters on the keyboard. i do believe the democratic party will be able to bring that message home next year when we have 36 gubernatorial races, 33 senatorial races. that's the ball game. we can't focus on 2020 until we get past 2018. >> interesting point because the top issue, if we can show that the top issue in our exit polls today was health care. >> that's right. >> part of what happened i think in that last campaign was, it was a very policy-free campaign in many ways. donald trump made it very policy-free. the media i think helped in that. >> i think the media helped a
lot in making it -- it was about what i call the sound bite. >> the spectacle. >> that's right, not the substance. >> health care seems to me -- >> look at that. >> this is an issue that the democrats have the luxury in some ways of defending the status quo. >> absolutely. >> it's hard to change people's health care. how central do you think that is? >> very important, especially at a time when the american people understand that the republicans are trying to repeal obamacare, and not replace it with something that's better. i think the democrats will have to embrace not just obamacare and health care, but we got to talk about bread and butter issues. the american people are still feeling anxious about the economy. if we go back to what i call those simple three words of opportunity and fairness and leveling the playing field, maybe it's six words, i think democrats are going to win in 2018. >> the issue that strikes me is, that may be true that democrats want to level the playing field, opportunity and fairness.
but here the thing. this economy is not delivering raises for people. it's the fundamental truth about this economy. it's the truth in the republican administration, it's the truth in the democratic administration, right? this economy, it can grow at 2%, 3%. it can get unemployment down to 4%. it can have all these statics that look great from 30,000 feet. but my paycheck is not getting bigger. do democrats have an answer when they say what will you do for them? >> that has to be the central platform that the democrats will put forward next year, how do we grow wages? how compado we expand opportuni? if we cannot walk and chew gum and let middle america know we're on their side, they won't come out. they didn't hear that message last year. >> that's the question. if i want to -- if you want to say to people, i want to raise your wages. what does that mean? what is a democrat going to do to raise my wages? >> you saw in the last midterm election, you had all these states including arkansas, ohio, they voted to raise the minimum
wage. people want their wages raised. i think democrats have to speak to those issues, they also have to speak to bread and butter issu issues. they are going to reject donald trump. we cannot just run on a platform of we don't like donald trump, we've got to run on a platform that says what we stand for. >> we should note ralph northam endoensed a $15 an hour minimum wage in virginia. interestingly enough, ed gillespie did not attack him very much on that, which i thought was indicative. donald trump has 280
characters as you can see. from halfway across the world he said, ed gillespie worked hard but did not embrace me or what i stand for, don't forget republicans won 4 of 4 house seats, with the economy doing record numbers we will continue to win even bigger than before, the tire marks across the face of ed gillespie, washington lobbyist -- >> totally predictable. you saw what happened in alabama. his candidate didn't win, he rolls right over you. >> what does this mean for alabama? >> i think democrats need to go
all-in and try to win alabama. they have to win by not just getting democrats, they have to get independents and some republicans. >> you can't win a statewide race in alabama with just democrats. >> that's right. >> it's not going to work. >> i'm from louisiana and i understand. john bell edwards in louisiana, we had a candidate who could appeal to the middle and also get republicans. we need i think doug jones can do that in alabama. >> hundreds of thousands of people in that louisiana have medicaid and health care because of john bell edwards and because that was something he ran on. >> you know what i did in 20 taken when democrats were criticizing? i went back home and i helped him. >> okay. talk about criticism. you've been in the middle of this maelstrom -- >> by the way, chris, i love my party. i don't care -- >> you kicked the crap out of your party in this book. >> it's not the crap. i want to kick my party back into gear. because i want to win in 2018. i want to win in 2018. >> i know that. the question is, why are you
doing what you're doing in this book, why are you doing it now? again, we're talking about this on the other side of what looks tonight to be an incredibly good night for the democratic party. >> this is my forum, this is my autopsy. >> why would you publish an excerpt in "plate co"that uses the word rigged -- >> i didn't publish it. >> you did publish it -- >> look, i used the word rigged. because that's the word donald trump used to describe our election results. the word i prefer to use, and i said in the book when i talked to bernie, i prefer to say cancer. i did not like the cancer. i call it cancer. because i w i did not rig the primaries. >> your defense is i didn't say rigged, i said cancer. but cancer is pretty bad. >> yeah, of course cancer's bad. god knows we want to get rid of cancer. but the question that i had to answer, and i wanted to report back to bernie, was, was the process rigged? and i did a forensic examination and came to the conclusion,
hillary clinton won the primary. she got more votes, more delegates, she won more states. she won the primary. >> okay. >> but what i found that i did not like, i call it cancer and i say it's unacceptable. >> what is that? and tell me how that applies to the party right now. >> before primary's over with, i think the democratic party must be nonpartial. i'm talking about the staff and the operations. when you have one campaign, and mind you, this campaign bailed the democratic party out. this campaign provided the democratic party with its resources. continued to help us with resources. and i found that objectionable. because i couldn't spend money as party chair. it got in my way of doing my job. and i opposed it. >> is that -- are the sort of dependencies that you felt were biassed that existed there, are those gone now? >> yes. >> is the party independent -- >> absolutely. i 11 the party, we cleaned that all up. i left the party in good hands, tom perez is doing a great job with keith and karen and mike and all the other officers.
>> who's the future of the democratic party? >> i won't know that until 2020. i'm not running. i don't know who plans to run. i can tell you this much, we have enough seats open at the table to allow new voices and new faces to come within the democratic party. i'm proud of my party. i'm proud of my party tonight. i'll be proud of my party tomorrow as well. >> do you think -- what do you think is the big lesson that democrats have learned from a year ago? everyone's writing these one-year owe bits. where are you a year ago? >> that's my obit, my autopsy. >> your autopsy. there's great stuff in here, which on election night, i would commend people to read about the hacking. i thought it was very important. really important in a broader context if people think about the new world we live in, in which your e-mails might be public at any time. >> thank you. >> what was the big one -- you've got to think about everyone wants to refight that fight in 2016. people are very invested in it. the excerpt came out. but you've really got to think about the future.
both for american politics and for the democratic party. what is your big lesson for the future of the democratic party? >> my biggest frustration, if you want to know what i went to bed with every night last year, i couldn't help enough candidates in states. i couldn't send posters to nonbattleground states. i saw someone today criticize me for sending money to chicago. i sent money to chicago because i wanted to help tammy duckworth. i sent money to my home state of louisiana because we had elections. i raise money and i went out and told state parties i want to help you. i don't want any state, whether you live in alaska or my home state in louisiana to go without resources and try to win elections. the democratic party stood up and gave money not just to the top of the ticket but they gave money to all of those delegate races. >> i think you can do -- her name is danika rome. i believe she'll be the first
transstate legislator in virginia. she beat gop rep bob marshal who is in leadership who refused to debate her and refused to call her by her proper gender. >> absolutely. >> that happened tonight. that is an earth shattering result. it speaks to what you're talking about, about this need to contest at every level. >> grass root energy. she was not written off. she was embraced by the democratic party and money and resorgss were sent her way. thank you. >> donna brazile who is pretty happy tonight for a variety of reasons but not least of them no one's going to be blaming her for rafflph northam. the book is called, hacks. what are things looking like now. >> we'll go a little deeper than just the governor's race. keep an eye on this margin. there's still more vote to come in. up to seven points right now.
the margin in the presidential race it was hillary clinton 50 to 54, democrats up to seven. the story continues to be we can zoom in and show you. in northern virginia, this is higher than the anti-trump level that we saw in 2016 in a lot of these places. you can take a look here. we still got vote coming in in fairfax county. that was the margin for hillary clinton. take a look here in arlington. a 61 point margin right now, 80% for the democrat. that is better than hillary clinton did last year. take a look. alexandria getting 76%. and what hillary clinton got in this area was exceptionally high for a democrat. the issue here in virginia right now is becoming more than just the governor's race. it's a question of will this margin, this much larger than expected democratic margin in the governor's race trickle down to other offices. let me show you. we had a call a few minutes ago
in the attorney general race. the democrat -- this is closer than the governor's race. the attorney general mark herring. he's been re-elected. this one is outstanding. it is not outstanding. it's been called since i came up here. johnson fairfax the democrat candidate for lieutenant governor, he's now going to inwith this race, so the democrats will win the governor's election, they will win the attorney general's election and win the lieutenant governor's election, all three of the statewide elections and that leaves the big suspenseful thing right now, that is the question of the house of delegates. democrats set this up. democrats right now coming -- 66/34 in the house delegates. 66 republicans coming in to tonight, 34 democrats. they're all up. all 100 seats. the democrats need a net gain of 17. nobody said 17 was even possible. maybe they'd pick up a few. here's what we know right now.
it's a fluid situation. democrats have picked up six republican held seats in the house of delegates and the magic number is 17. six they've picked up before i came up here three minutes ago, it might have be it might have changed. they led six plus 12 you get 18, if say huge if but if that holds. >> wow. >> that's unthinkable coming in to tonight. a win of the house of delegates. that's what we're really looking at right now. >> background context this is a state that has a democratic governor, that has gone for the democratic presidential candidate with the 66-34 imbalance in the house of delegates. that gerrymandering was just struck down by a court and you can see the mismatch between the state has voted at the statewide level and the margin there but they may be coming to a close tonight. certainly that gap is going to narrow. with me now, i have david
ignatius, a columnist for the "the washington post" who i was reminding everyone that it was your column about michael flynn talking to sergei kislyak was the first domino that brought us to where we are. >> seems like a long time ago. >> glad to have you here because on a very busy night with a lot going on, the president who tweeted about gillespie, he's set to give an address to -- in their main legislative chamber about north korea. it's a pretty high stakes address given the tenure of the rhetoric so far. what do you think is going to happen tonight? >> i think president trump will try to reassure south koreans who have been really nervous. his rhetoric, the little rocket man stuff i think really has put south koreans on edge. american military presence in
south korea has always been controversial. he has a significant job of reassuring folks there who are under the gun quite literally that he's thinking about them, he understands them. >> war planners estimate that any open hostilities between the u.s. and south korea and north korea would result in hundreds of thousands of casualties within the first hour i think some people predict. this is a war there would be catastrophic and the folks know it. do you expect his rhetoric to sound different than it did at the u.n. general assembly? >> i'll be curious if we'll hear some of the belligerent talk. the importance of this trip is if trump can move from japan to south korea and beijing and have support for diplomacy in each capital, the chance of having a unified position towards kim
jong-un, towards north korea, is greater. i think everybody wants that, so in that sense, it's important to roll each of these together and have a front where all worried about what comes next after this trip is over. >> do you think other countries -- there's some great reporting about how north koreans are viewing all this. there's a great piece in the "the new yorker" in all this. allies like japan and china, do you think they feel like they have a handle on how seriously to take the president's rhetoric on north korea? >> i think president's rhetoric is misstifying to people around the world. one thing i was thinking tonight watching the election results is that for a world that is really scratching its head and wondering how dominate is trump, how should we take these polls in which she appears to be unpopular in the public, these are significant results.
there is resilient in american politics, so i think -- don't underestimate the degree to which people all over the world are focusing on our political fever and wondering what's happening in america. tonight is important as it is is a domestic story it does have international repercussions. >> you think they'll be international headlines tomorrow about a virginia -- >> i don't want to say that they're going to be top headlines but i'd be surprised if every correspondent for major foreign newspapers doesn't talk about what does this tell us about where america is. there's been real concern. where's america heading? is this the country we know? how much is it changing? here's a sign that there is chris matthews earlier used the phrase, the balancing process, the spring board that's at work in american politics.
this tells the world that there is a reaction. you can see it in the polls and you can see it in the election results. >> the president we should say as he's preparing to address that joint assembly and that's obviously ralph northam's headquarters there in virginia, that's the general assembly there in south korea. he also tweeting about this virginia result throwing ed gillespie under the bus saying he worked hard but did not embrace me or what i stand for. that's not what steve bannon said on the record. i think he's talking about special elections in which of course they were heavily favored. with the economy doing record numbers we'll continue to win even bigger than before. it's interesting if he goes on a tangent about his victory in front of south korea. david ignatius. thank you for making time to with us. >> great to be with you. all right.
on a really busy night here, that is all in for this evening on this election night 2017. the rachel maddow shows joins right now. >> you just started using your feet too. so he's -- >> south korean legislative assembly and ralph northam's headquarters. >> exactly. and david ignatius bringing it all full circle in talking about the international implications of these results. there is a lot going on. happy tuesday, happy election day. it is clear already that this is a big election night for democrats. before we get into the details of that, let me just say what's going to happen over this hour that i'm responsible for. right now it is 9:00 p.m. on the east coast in the united states. right now it is tomorrow. it is 11:00 a.m. on