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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  November 10, 2017 6:00am-7:00am PST

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about. starting with more trouble for the gop. alabama republican senate candidate roy moore firing back after a report that he allegedly sexually approached a 14-year-old girl decades ago. his potential d.c. colleagues distancing themselves quickly. >> you got to step aside. >> i don't believe they'll be any place for him in the u.s. senate. >> if it's true, step aside. >> shocking new details from the other investigation looking into whether mike flynn and his son were offered millions of dollars to forcibly remove a muslim cleric from the united states and deliver him to the turkish president. this as top trump aide steven miller gets grilled. and one step closer. senate republicans release their tax plan setting the stage for a major showdown. >> we look forward to getting this to the president and signing this. >> we've got to begin this morning with the stunning sexual allegations against alabama senate candidate roy moore. his shot at a senate seat now in
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jeopardy as dozens of republicans, including the president, make it clear, if the allegations are true, moore must step down. i have a very good team this morning. but first i want to explain exactly what we're talking about. it's confusing. a new report from "the washington post" alleges that back in 1979, moore befriended a 14-year-old girl, lee corkman, while he was working as a district attorney in alabama. cochran says on at least two occasions, the two kissed and on one occasion, he took off her clothes, touched her and encourages her to touch him. at least three other women also allege that moore pursued them while they were just teenagers but none alleged any sexual contact beyond kissing. the moore campaign is accuse "the post" of running a hit piece, saying, quote, it is no surprise with just over four weeks remaining in a race for the u.s. senate with national implications that the democratic
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party and the country's most liberal newspaper would come up with a fabrication of this kind. this garbage is the very definition of fake news and intentional defamation. well, it can hardly come at a worst time for moore or his party. polls indicate he's leading doug jones in the special election for alabama senate seat and election day is just 32 days away. this morning, white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders issued this statement from air force one. take a listen. >> like most americans, the president believes that we should not allow a mere allegation in this case one from many years ago to destroy a person's life. however, the president also believes that if these allegations are true, judge moore will do the right thing and step aside. >> this is a lot to take in. msnbc's garrett haake has been gauging reaction on capitol hill. garrett what are you hearing? already roy moore was a dicey guy. that many people in the gop were thinking, am i going to have to answer and defend this guy if he
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actually holds a senate seat? >> right, roy moore has been saying incendiary things for the known decade, sort of the known commodity. a lot of republicans here on capitol hill did not want to see him in the u.s. senate seat. almost every republican on capitol hill backed luther strange who's been sitting in that seat since jeff sessions was called up to the justice department. so they wanted another guy. they may still be stuck with roy moore, but i have not seen up here any reaction quite so swift as republican senators trying to distance themselves from roy moore like we saw yesterday. take a listen. >> these allegations are true, roy moore should step aside. >> if there is any shred of truth to these stories, he ought to step aside. >> if the allegations that are being made are true, then yes. >> obviously, what i've heard of them, again, very serious. >> it's very disturbing what i've read about and i'll have more to say about it i'm sure after i learn more.
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>> so stephanie, you hear a lot of that due process caveat, saying if these allegationings are true. it's not clear what beyond the on the record interviews with these women might convince them that that's the case. but, again, that all within essentially an hour and a half of this story dropping. you had all those senators saying they want to be as far away from this as possible. >> okay, but do they? because if if if, this thing's not going to come to court. "the washington post" story has, what is it, 30 people backing up, and this woman going on the record with her name. what other if are they looking for? >> yes, i mean it's a good question, stephanie. the only senator who dispensed with that sort of if then construction was john mccain who came right out with a paper statement right after this happened saying this is inappropriate, he's not fit to serve here. there was no ifs ands or buts about it. look, republicans are in a dicey spot here. when you look at the polls in alabama, roy moore has a pretty comfortable lead.
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the average of the polls there has him up about eight points. i think the most recent poll i saw in alabama had him up by something like is 11. there just aren't enough for his opponent to win on a democratic surge of his own. what happens now if roy moore wins this race still, which he very well could. his campaign is leaning into this, slamming the paper, calling it depham toeshgs even using these accusations to raise money for his campaign. so there's no indication that moore's getting out of this. he could very well end up being a u.s. senator. >> i can't even. all right, i got to bring in nbc's von hilliard who has made his way to the city of gadsen, alabama. exactly what garrett was leading us into. when you talk to republicans in washington, they've said a lot of quick things distancing themselves from roy moore but they're in alabama. it almost seems like his fellow republicans are doubling down. >> exactly, stephanie. it's been more than 25 year since a democrat has actually won a senate seat here in
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alabama. and just having conversations, i just got off the phone with trump's former alabama campaign chairman perry hooper who actually endorsed, he's one of these individuals, endorsed strange for the senate. i had the conversation with him this morning and i said what now, where does this go from here, do you believe the women, and this is what he said. >> i do not believe the women. i don't know exactly -- because i saw the same thing, same accusations made when president trump was running. i don't like to see it. i think it's false. but one way to get down to it is just to require them to take a polygraph test. >> perry hooper's not the only one expressing skepticism. we have a couple others. marion county gop chair david hall said yesterday, i really don't see the relevance of did. he was 32. she was supposedly 14.
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riley sibenhour, geneva county, said, other than an underaged person, he didn't really force himself. this other person, quote, i wouldn't want to vote for doug. i'm not saying what he did was good. this is pretty much kind of the sentiments. we're going to have one other one i think we want to pull up on the screen. this was jim ziegler, the alabama state auditor, he said yesterday to the washington examiner, he said, quote, take joseph and mary. mary was a teenager and jo sketch was an adult carpenter. they became parents of jesus. there's just nothing immoral or illegal here. maybe just a little bit unusual. as garrett was attesting to, ray moore is a known commodity around here. this man was removed as chief justice of the alabama supreme court twice. i was here a couple weeks ago after he beat luther strange in this runoff and was in this deli talking with dozens of people. i said, you said repeatedly controversial statements suggesting a muslim shouldn't be
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in congress, suggesting homosexual acts should be illegal. you still support roy moore? they said, if it means beating a democrat, we'll do just that. we'll vote for roy moore. we'll see if that sentiment holds up. >> the first, one made a statement, the only thing there is being with someone underage. that's okay, that the fact she was underage, we'll just put that aside? no, that's a big issue. the second point i'd like to make where he said the same thing happened to trump. i need to read something, you ready? i did try and "f" her. she was married. i moved in on her like a bitch. i couldn't get there and she was married. then all a sudden, i see her, now she's got these big phony tits and everything. she totally changed her look. i've got to get some tick tacks just in case i start ticking her. you know i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. i just kissing them. it's like a magnet. just kiss. i don't even wait. when you're a star, they let you do it, you can do anything. and you know the next line, grab
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them by the blank. no one did that to president trump. those are his words. i want to bring in my panel. jason johnson, politics editor at the root.com and professor at morgan state university and msnbc political contributor. matt well, is editor at large at reason, a libertarian monthly magazine. and steve core naek,kornacki, m political correspondent. matt, here's what blows my mind. roy moore and his squad are raising money off of this. >> sure. >> what goes on in the great state of alabama? >> every single day that roy moore is still in the news and still isn't resigning is a really, really bad day for the national republican party here. precisely because of all those quotes we just read from the alabama republicans who are supporting them. everyone else in the country is reading this and saying you can't be serious, that there's nothing immoral about hitting on a 14 -- not just hitting on a 14-year-old -- >> the only issue is she was under age, what? >> the only issue is you put your arm around her and say,
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hey, mom, go in the courthouse, i'll watch her for you, cool. >> a mother at a custody hearing. >> custody hearing. so the republican party, as steve i'm sure about to tell you, they're already wearing trump badly this week. it wasn't a good week everywhere. people are running against trump democrat. so democrats are going to be running against everywhere. not just in alabama. but everywhere against roy moore. the republican party right now is a party that doesn't have room for someone like jeff flake who's a very decent guy, he's a traditional republican, he's interested in fiscal conservativism, he's pro-immigration. no, we don't like him, but we like this culture war, lawless troll, which roy moore has been his whole life, even before he was heavily petting 14-year-olds in the woods. >> explain to me why this argument works. i heard steve bannon go after jeff flake, saying, please, he's a guy who let an unlimited amount of immigrants in. there was never an unlimited amount of immigrants, a, and b, steve bannon made the same point we heard earlier, the same thing
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happened to trump with the access hollywood tape as happening to roy moore. what happened to president trump was true. >> right. >> he just won in spite of it. >> nothing happened to president trump other than he got elected. he assaulted women. his first wife accused him of assaulting her. here's the other thing, earlier this year you have the governor of alabama step down for having an affair. he literally stepped down for having an affair. apparently having an affair with a 40-something-year-old woman as an adult that cost you your job, but trolling for dates at custody hearings in the '70s is something people -- >> as a d.a. >> as a d.a., is something that people will defend you for. it is disgusting. i will tell you this. i was talking to one of our root reporters based in alabama, i said, look what are you hearing. he said, people are still going to support the guy. the only way that doug jones ends up possibly making this competitive is if the large turnout you saw for democrats in places like birmingham or some of those other upset elections ends up changing the dynamic. more often than not, the
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republicans have geenfort and this guy. >> he's not going to drop out so walk me through the politics. >> look, republicans would love him to drop out. this is a guy who had to get dragged off the state supreme court twice. he's not going willingly. we know that. that means he will appear on the ballot as the republican candidate for u.s. senate in alabama in december. but there are two things to keep in mind here. number one is yes, alabama's a very republican state. yes, you have to go back to the early '90s to find a democrat winning a senate race and yes, they typically win these by 25 to 30 points but the polling you showed a few minutes ago already shows this is the most competitive senate race alabama has had in a generation. and is entirely because of roy moore and all of the baggage he brought to the race before these allegations. keep this in mind, roy moore last ran for office in alabama in 2012 for chief justice. it's a statewide election in alabama. on that same day, mitt romney, the republican candidate for president, got 62% of the vote in alabama. absolute landslide. roy moore running statewide same day, same ballot, 51%.
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he barely got a majority. he barely won that job. that's because of all of the baggage he brought before this. i would say it is very possible in a special election for the u.s. senate. i know a federal office is different than a statewide office like chief justice. i would say it's very possible that doug jones, the democrat, could beat roy moore on the strength of -- if you want to say strength, of these allegations coming out of roy moore now. given all of the baggage he brought before this. it's certainly possible given all the dynamic hess put out there. that moore could survive, but he does not have, i think, as much of a margin for error by far as a republican typically does in alabama. other wild card, you had all those quotes from republican senators. the one that jumpps out at me is luther strange. the appointed incumbent senator in alabama who lost the republican runoff. he said, i'm disgusted by this and i will have more to say. and the question here is this, when he has more to say, is he going to say republicans, if you're as disgusted as me, you write my name in, in december. if he steps forward and says
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that, a possibility right now, if he steps forward and says that, that changes the math completely. i do not believe luther strange would win as a write-in candidate because probably half of the republican party will vote for moore anyway. will he split the republican party in a way that alters the math, i think that would be very possible if he steps forward and does that. >> okay, but am i wrong then? i realize you're saying let's just focus on the race. am i wrong to try to really look at this? on one hand, you have people saying if, if, if. on the other, you've got defenders in alabama who have actually said, well, look at the bible, jo sketch was a grown man, and mary was a teenager. last i checked, she was a virgin, it was divine intervention, immaculate conception. that is a ridiculous claim. it's actually a massive insult to people of faith. >> exactly. and, again, they're going to be wearing this all over the country. this is why everyone on capitol hill is freaking out. but jeff flake for -- >> are they freaking out? i'm tired of hearing they're freaking out.
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where? tough words. let's see you do something. >> well, i mean, they're freaking out for themselves. what can they do? right? jeff flake previously prior to all of this said we shouldn't -- this party shouldn't back roy moore -- >> okay, here's what they can do, they can say maybe this happened 40 years ago but this is the final straw. >> right. >> because this ain't a one off for roy moore. i'm pretty sure this weekend he said that transgenders have no rights. if we want to go through the roy moore play list, the best of, this is just number 462 of things that traditional conservatives might be appalled by. >> look, roy moore's statements are basically like steve bannon's diary if you read it out loud. every sickle rangle racist thin could come up with. and i agree, look, he may not have the margin of error, you know, that other republicans have but the margin was 18 years, you know, 40 years ago and people don't have a problem
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with that. if this hit a week before the election, i think he could be done. i don't think with 33 days where he's going to have explanations, he's going to have people defending him, is he necessarily going to lose the race. >> it's 52-48 in the senate. senate republicans including some people we saw mike lee was going to host a fund-raiser for moore. a constitutional conservative. roy moore, a lawless jurist. was going to host a fund-raiser with rand paul on it because they're all obsessed with maintaining that majority. so that they can get their judges. this is a degradation of their own sense of responsibility. >> i'm tired of the argument. how about your daughters. how about your humanity. president trump may be in vietnam but it's still america first. this morning, in front of business leaders, the president criticized international trade agreements and slammed his own predecessors for supporting them. >> from this day forward, we will compete on a fair and equal basis. we are not going to let the
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united states be taken advantage of anymore. >> nbc's peter alexander is live in vietnam. peter, president trump and president putin were supposed to meet today. what happened? >> yes, actually, just a moment ago, we saw pictures we can play for you. this is the presidents, putin and trump, shooting hands here at the asia pacific cooperation summit. they stood side by side for what's described as the class photo, the family photo of sorts between world leaders here. this is notable because just a couple of days ago we had heard from the president as he was flying to asia suggesting that the two men would meet. today, we heard from sarah huckabee sanders the president's press secretary saying there was no formal meeting on the schedule, blaming scheduling conflicts of sorts. she did say they would cross paths. we've now seen that's taken place. we'll see if the two of them do meet at any greater length after dinner or perhaps tomorrow as the president wraps up this summit here.
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among the topics they'll focus on, if they do meet, certainly north korea, syria, with the new reports of the u.s. and russia have neared a deal to resolve the syrian civil war. there have been big differences over the future of bashar al assad. notably, though, the president today was strongness language, as you just played, specifically on the issue of trade. this is the first time the president is in this region after saying the u.s. will not be parent of any tpp, transpacific partnership, international trade deal, saying he doesn't want multilateral deals but would prefer the one-on-one deals. saying america's priority when it comes to its own economy is that any deals it has are fair, that they're balanced and based on a principle of reciprocity. a day after coming from china, where the president tried, sort of flattery to pursue deals of sorts. some agreement with his friend, president xi. the president much tougher, suggesting among other things he would not accept currency
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manipulation and the theft of intellectual property. >> flattery but it makes no sense. does he think the president of china doesn't hear what he says when he leaves the room? it's crazy. he can say really great things in front of him and then when he walks out and says something else, guess what, they're aware of that. it just makes absolutely no sense to me. all right, peter, stay safe out there. coming up, allegations of sexual misconduct against emmy winning comedian louis c.k. we have the stunning and i'm going to say gross details and the swift fallout. a new bombshell report out this morning about former national security adviser michael flynn just a week after nbc news learned special counsel robert mueller has enough evidence to bring charges in the flynn investigation. remember when he scolded me for asking about russia? ha, ha, ha.
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welcome back, i'm stephanie ruhle. special counsel bob muler is turning up heat in his russia investigation. a new report out from nbc news reveals that mueller is digging deeper into former white house national security adviser mike flynn's foreign dealings, looking at a potential secret deal between flynn, his son and the turkish government. let's bring in nbc national political reporter cara lee, one of the reporters on the mike flynn story. walk us through, what's the update here. >> so essentially what we've learned from multiple sources is that the special council is
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looking into whether during the transition michael flynn cut a deal with -- with the government of turkey in which he was to receive an estimated $15 million directly or indirectly in exchange for doing two things once in the white house. the first one is to somehow orchestrate this return of this cleric that the turkish government has wanted extradited from the u.s. for some time and he's living in pennsylvania. the second thing is they wanted charges dropped against an iranian turk who was charged last year with essentially helping iran skirt u.s. sanctions and he's currently in jail in the u.s. awaiting trial. and so what we don't know is whether that was acted on and whether there was follow-through on this. we know the special counsel is looking at this and specifically looking at a meeting that happened in december of 2016 at
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the 21 club restaurant in new york with flynn and senior turkish officials and the question is whether this alleged deal took -- was discussed and sort of hatched at a meeting there at that particular time which as we all know was just weeked away from the inauguration. >> what are the takeaways from all of this when you think about the direction of the mueller investigation? sarah huckabee sanders was it a week ago said after we heard about manafort, this is a sign that the mueller investigation is ending soon. >> i don't read it that way. >> yeah, i don't think anyone is saying anything like that. i agree, you're absolutely right, this is not. and it was not a sign that it's ending any time soon. in fact, i think that was a sign that it's just getting started in some ways. >> all right, you know, i want to point out one thing. someone said to me the other day all this russia stuff, when are democrats going to get over it, they had a bad candidate. here's the thing, the two are not separate.
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democrats could have a bad candidate. hillary clinton could lose the election. that has nothing to do with the fact that there could be some very bad actors who are part of the trump administration or at least a campaign team. all right, carol, thank you so much. we're going to take a break. coming up, a bombshell in the federal corruption trial of a new jersey senator bob nmenende. a dismissed juror makes a pretty bold assertion. now, you ready for this, deliberations must start from scratch. plus, the premiere of comedian's louis c.k.'s movie canceled after multiple women accused him of sexual misconduct in "the new york times," that's next. there was an old woman who lived in a shoe. she had so many children she had to buy lots of groceries. while she was shopping for organic fruits and veggies,
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i've always wanted to create those experiences for others. with my advisor's help along the way, it's finally my turn to be the host. when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise what is an answer and how can you measure the value of one? today trusted answers from trusted sources are rare and precious commodities. they're out there but finding them on your own has never been harder. it's why at thomson reuters we provide you with the intelligence, technology, and human expertise you need to find trusted answers. the answer company. thomson reuters. we are the driven... the dedicated... the overachievers. we know our best investment is in ourselves.
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we don't take no for an answer. we fight for what we want. even for the things that were once a given. going to college... buying a home... and not being in debt for it for the rest of our lives. but we're only as strong as our community. who inspires and pushes us to go further than we could ever go alone. sofi. get there sooner. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. you're watching msnbc. it is time now for your morning primer. everything you need to know to get your day started. we begin with russian president vladimir putin suggesting the u.s. is try to interfere in russia's presidential election by banning russian act leets from the 2018 winter olympics. the international olympics committee announced sanctions thursday for allegedly violating anti-do anti-doping rules. more than 600,000 people have signed up for obamacare in the first few days of open
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enrollment. that is a significant jump from the first four days last year. millions of americans in puerto rico are without power. you ready for this, again, after a major power line that was repaired, remember whitefish, by whitefish energy, failed thursday morning. what they fixed now broke. more than 80% of the island reportedly plunged into darkness including san juan and other major cities. and one person was killed and another injured during a major police chase and shootout in rhode island on thursday. authorities say police were chasing two suspects in a pickup truck, one suspect was killed, the other injured and taken to a hospital. and we're learning new allegations of sexual misconduct against one of the biggest names in comedy, louis c.k. in a "new york times" report, five women have come forward with disturbing accusations against the multiple emmy-award winning comedian and writer. walk us through this one. "the new york times" report is
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detailed. >> it really is, stephanie. we're living in this extraordinary time where women feel empowered to come forward but it means that every day we're learning more about just how wide spread this problem is. "the new york times" says there are these five women who have come forward. dana and julie were comedic partners. they say they went to his hotel room after the show. they thought they would be safe because they were both there. and that's when they say he proceeded to take off his clothes, get completely naked and started masturbating. and then the -- >> that's just disgusting. that's not just he's a predator, that's vile. these women didn't come forward for all these years? >> they were embarrassed by it. you can imagine. and this apparently was his m.o. because he went to other women. he actually asked rebecca corey if he could do the same thing. she says stunned and angry she declined. she pointed out that he had a daughter and a pregnant wife.
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his face got red, she recalled, and he told me he had issues. >> darn right he did. is one of the issues here though you're a comedian, you're in the entertainment industry. it's not even like they're on a movie set and they could go to a director or producer. who could you go to? there's no human resources. >> exactly. and there are studios that produce these things for him, you know, there are clubs that have these shows but these women -- >> they don't want to touch it. >> there was nobody they could go to. and goodman and wooloff started talking about it and that's when his agent sort of shut it down. they said they felt the immediate blowback from talking openly about this. they found out other women -- we actually got a call at nbc news today, somebody called in to our tip line and said this happened to her and give her a call back because this was so widespread and everybody knew about it. >> okay, listen, his a gent is tied into this, but what about live projects he has going on? he has a movie coming up. it's interesting, the entertainment industry has looked at accusations a cross
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the board when it's louis c.k., spacey, and they've shut down projects. not that we see in government. the moral campus has shifted to hollywood. >> exactly, we've heard that for years hollywood has sort of brushed this under the rug. so now some of these studios are coming forward, are stopping projects. his latest movie, that has now been -- the premiere was canceled while the studio investigates. hbo has dropped him from an upcoming special. and fx, who did so many projects with him over the years, says they never heard any of these allegations at the time but they are also now investigating. >> this is what i can't get over. hollywood where the casting couch was born, an industry with the worst reputation ever, taking swift action. government, let's wait and see. extraordinary. all right, we got to turn to another story. new revelations this morning in the federal corruption trial of democratic senator bob menendez. a dismissed juror is speaking out giving us a peek into which
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direction the verdict could go. >> through the whole trial, i did not fall asleep, i paid attention, to everything that they showed me. i think the defense showed me enough to say he's not guilty on every count. >> that certainly helps things. menendez is accuse of accepting gifts and luxurious vacations from a florida eye doctor. in exchange, menendez allegedly lobbied government officials on the doctor's behave. he has pleaded not guilty to all charges. i want to bring in my friend attorney and essence magazine contributor edwin charles. what do those comments that she just made do to this trial? >> i think what it does is it puts the trial in jeopardy. when a person goes on trial, there's a process called deliberation. that process includes the jury getting together and discussing behind closed door, it's supposed to remain secret, they discuss the elements of the
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crime or if it's a civil matter, they discuss the elements of what the law is. >> shouldn't she be told yes you're dismissed but no talking? >> exactly, she should have been told no talking. now this gives the defense i think an ample opportunity should he be convicted for appeal. because he has a sixth amendment guarantee that the process of deliberation is going to be impartial. and so if i was on that defense team, i would be jumping up for joy because at least this gives them a window if he's convicted for an appeal. also it's possible a mistrial can be declared. >> legally, she was declared to do that? >> she was, she was. i mean, the problem is what it does is it taints the entire process. and i don't understand why she wasn't told keep your mouth shut. you know, what happenings in deliberations stays in deliberations. >> kind of like vegas. >> exactly. >> she also told reporters why she thinks he's innocent. another thing that could taint the jury. >> this is his friend and they
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keep saying, oh, if i take you out to dinner and i pay for your tab, isn't that a gift? no, it's not. >> okay, i got a lot of friends. luxurious vacations, private jets. with menendez in a position to lobby government officials to help this guy's business. come on now. >> yeah, well, the thing is the prosecutors do have a high burden. they have to show was this quid pro quo. and we had a recent supreme court decision last year where they narrowed that definition and said that official acts have to be actual acts. it cannot be phone calls. it cannot be meetings. it cannot be, you know, just making things like that on behalf of somebody. it has to be an actual official act and it has to be shown that they did that in exchange for campaign donations or what have you. >> then if that's just the way friends live, i need to get somber friends, okay. all right. midwin charles. up next, the republican-led senate has just unveiled its tax reform bill but there are some pretty big differences from the house's version of the bill.
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how he gonna get this thing through that's so different from the first by thanksgiving? we're going to break it down after the break. and an intriguing look inside vice president pence's secret club that includes former vps joe biden and dick cheney, that's coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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but on the inside, i feel like chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves.
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i'm glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who've had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can do more with my family. talk to your doctor today. see if lyrica can help. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. now it's time for money power politics. stop laughing, this is serious business. lawmakers are plowing ahead on tax reform, still aiming to have
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it signed before the end of the year. here's the issue. the senate's bill out yesterday has some crucial differences from the house bill. one of the biggest differences, the 20% corporate tax rate would be delayed until 2019. well, the stock market reacted negatively to that detail. the bill also takes a different approach to tax brackets and certainly popular deductions. the house majority leader planned to vote on their version of the bill next week. by imagine back with me. jason johnson and matt welsh. the white house is saying the president, is quote, encouraged by the progres. president trump is not really behind much in this. at the end of the day, this tax bill is written for president trump. >> right. >> he benefits from this thing. >> exactly whether you look at the house bill or the senate bill, it's him and his friends who are going to benefit the most and we still have questions as to whether or not that's going to help the economy or kill it. that's one of the reasons he
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doesn't want this delayed. here's the thing, just from a pure legislative standpoint. we've never gotten any indicator and here we are a year since he was elected, nine months since he's been in office that donald trump is a good negotiator when it comes to any legislation. we don't know what they need for the house or the house change and what they need for the senate. they don't have incentive to do something this radical before next year's elections and that's fundamentally the problem. unless he's having those meetings and can convince people he will have their back no matter what the consequence, this doesn't get done. >> he's never had anyone's back no matter what the consequences. besides his daughter ivanka. if you -- we know in the senate bill it eliminates state and local income tax. that is a killer for high-tax states like new york, new jersey, california. how do any republicans get behind that? they learned on tuesday all politics are local. how do they go home? >> well, the senate republicans
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from new jersey and new york and california and illinois don't exist because they're all democrats. this is the math they're putting together. but what they're not thinking of is there's some other high-tax states that will be hurt by this, wisconsin, michigan, ohio, maine. there are republicans in those states. you can't aford to lose almost anybody here. bob corker said to chuck todd a month ago, i won't vote for this if it adds one penny to the deficit. the cbo, congressional budget office, said it will add 1.7 quadrillion pennies to the deficit. >> i spoke to a lobbyist last night who said right now it's not about politics, it's about politics. and what we need to get. a month ago -- >> no, but bob corker is immune to that sense of politics. so he's going to be a no. if john mccain is a process no and he's threatened this, he wants to be a bipartisan thing, that's too off the table. jeff flake has also raised objections to adding too much to the debt right now and the senate bill compared to the house bill will add more because
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they change the cut or the cap on mortgage interest rate deduction. >> i need to bring somebody into this who doesn't actually have a vote but he has a whole lot of say. steve bannon. how does this bill work for president trump's base? steve bannon going on and on, saying we need to do stuff for the american worker, the american people. this bill clearly is a cut for corporations. howard shultz, former ceo of starbuck, said corporations don't need it. it is a hope and aspiration help for the middle class and poor. >> let's just take a look at education. look at this, number one, if you take away people's ability to write off their state and local taxes, people move to pay more taxes for better schools. you're already hitting middle class families right there on that issue. then next, they said, you know, you can no longer write off graduate school too wigss. so educators and people who want to advance their degrees, they're no longer going to have the opportunity. and senate bill has an excise tax on college endowments so
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colleges who offer scholarships to kids will now be taxed for trying to provide an education for regular people. that's just one area. this bill politically is a killer for next year. every single republican who will possibly vote on any version of this is going to get hit in 2018 midterms. >> we know there are blowback in some things, the adoption tax credit for example. you saw that the house and the senate were in agreement. what other areas could they be in agreement that yes, when gary cohen and steve mnuchin came out with their plan and it was all trickle down, we now see changes already. where do you see changes coming? >> it will only go in the direction of caving to more people who squawk. so the more corporate loopholes that they tried to close in the house, they're going to reopen in the senate. >> didn't actually close that many loopholes. >> no, they didn't. >> that's the thing that's stunning. the whole reason for cutting the corporate tax rate was not because corporations don't have money, they're saying that tax code is far too complicatcompli. if you close loopholes and cut the rate, they're going to be
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able to do a whole lot more. they didn't close the loopholes, they just cut the rate. that's called a sweet, sweet hookup. >> the two biggest loopholes for individuals were state and local and mortgage interest. that's how you get money to pay for this. they've caved on the mortgage interest one. they will i think cave also on state and local. so this would just be a tax cut without reform and it will absolutely blow apart -- >> i have to ask, how detailed to these lawmakers get? do they actually read it? when you think about pass throughs, llcs, to which the president has over 500. they've even split the baby saying well, it does count, you do get the low rate. if you're in real estate, if you own a bodega. but not if you're a doctor, if you're a lawyer, if you're in the insurance industry. how do lawmakers say, owe, that workings? how do they not notice the president clearly carves this to help himself? >> i don't think they're paying that much attention. i don't think agreements are going to be anything they can solve before christmas. if you can't decide on four or
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seven tax brackets, i don't think you'll get into the minutia. there is no sense that you have educated economists at play. it seems all political. that hurts everybody who's in congress. >> that's what's stunning to me. they may not be paying attention. average americans might not pay attention to every detail that manafort and flynn and cohen do or did during the campaign but they certainly pay attention to what their taxes are. all right, coming up, president trump has clashed with his predecessors. but the vice president, he appears to be making nice with his. we're going to take you inside the vp secret club that includes joe biden and dick cheney. one thing might pence knows, he knows how to play politics. i don't want to sound paranoid, but d'ya think our recent online sales success seems a little... strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?!
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in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. while president trump has clashed with his predecessors, mike pence has done the opposite. he's stayed in close contact with joe biden and dick cheney. one of the reporters on this exclusive story is back with me. carol, i kind of love this club, how does it work?
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>> mike pence will call former vice president joe biden before going on foreign trips to get advice on who he is going to meet and what the leaders are like and what the issues are. and biden will call him to say, i'm going to meet with this foreign leader, are there any issues that you guys are having? what -- is there any sensitivities? so they have this exchange of information. and similarly with cheney where they talk foreign policy, domestic policy, what it's like to be a vice president, the inner play between the white house and capitol hill. so pence has cultivated these two and really created what one aid described to me as a warm relationship, particularly with vice president biden. >> wise move, yoda. sort of a brotherhood. do they have a secret handshake or code names? >> they have secret service code names, but i don't know they use them. >> they should have a handshake,
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like blood brothers. all right, in all sincerity, you have joe biden in there, he's not ruled out a run in 2020. there are a lot of democrats hoping for it. so are there political implications here? many say vice president pence has himself lined up with a staff so big, he's ready to step in and take the big seat at any time? >> well, for vice president biden, i think you could argue that he may have some political risk in terms of if he wants to run in 2020, which he has not ruled out, he'll have to face the democratic primary. and democrats are really, you know, largely, if not unanimously, opposed against this administration. so having a relationship maybe could be problematic for him. but this is his brand, this is what he does. he sees this, and talks to people around him in a statesman-like duty. that he would talk to the vice president and counsel, help him through this first year in office, with dealing with all
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the big issues. and i have to say it, also, joe biden left the white house after decades in politics and dealing with these issues. and this keeps him in the mix. >> and they have known each other for ages, too. just think about the position, president trump, i and i alone, vice president pence, starting the vps club. thank you so much. coming up, a key republican lawmaker is not a fan of his party's tax bill. congressman peter king of new york will be here to explain his problem with the plan and what it would do to get what they ne need, his support. a morning latte, some strategically-placed needles, unicorns and sore muscles. with the help of two very special pint-size helpers, i finally took some time out of my busy schedule to get in the small business saturday spirit and try some new businesses in my own brooklyn neighborhood. for more, watch "your business"
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weekend mornings at 7:30 on msnbc. >> sponsored by american express, founding partner of small business saturday, shop small on november 25th. with some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town. that's why american express is proud to be the founding partner of small business saturday. a day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. so, on november 25th get up, get out, and shop small. just serve classy snacks and bew a gracious host,iday party. no matter who shows up. do you like nuts?
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before we go, we want to acknowledge veterans day, which is tomorrow. i want to thank all the servicemen and women who put their lives on the line for us, hopefully you remember thanking veterans isn't something to do just on veterans day, it is something we should do every day. these are people who put their lives out to protect our democracy. thank you so much. that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. i'll see you again at 11:00 with my friend and colleague, ali velshi. i echo all the sentiments you just laid out for the veterans. i'm in for hallie jackson who continues to cover the president overseas. this morning at home, new reaction in the bombshell senate sex scandal. roy moore pushing against
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allegations of misconduct with underaged girls. fellow republicans urging him to get out of the race. those calls falling on deaf ears. we are live in alabama. and president trump meeting world leaders in vietnam and meeting with vladimir putin overnight. we are live on the ground with the president. and we are live with a new report on former national security adviser michael flynn. his alleged plan to extradite a turkish citizen from the u.s. and the payday flynn and his son were hoping to cash in on. but we'll start this morning in alabama and the explosive allegations rocking the senate race there. nbc's gabe gutierrez is there. he's live in roy moore's hometown, gadsden, what is the latest there?

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