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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  November 11, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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so this in the bible says it's okay. >> and you've seen rush limbaugh talk about you won't be able to look at women's breasts. >> but it goes to double standards. clearly culture is full of. >> hypocrites. >> pigs. but allow there are these standards. >> okay. thanks for being here tonight. that does it for all in. you can catch us every week night at 8:00 p.m. right here on msnbc. >> good evening i'm lawrence o'donnell with the last word from washington d.c. tonight. we have much to cover from roy moore to robert mueller and michael flynn and michael flynn's son. but today a new witness emerged in the case against roy moore. and that witness was almost as damming as the women who told their stories to the "washington post." the new witness decided to tell his story to shawn hannity. >> roy moore is reported by "the
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washington post" to have engaged in a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl when he was in his 30s. >> this guy who is constantly posturing about howdy vout he is and sinful everyone else is. >> crime, abortion, sodomy, sexual pervasion, sweep our land. >> roy moore insists he's not guilty yetting everybody in the republican party in alabama is making excuses for his behavior. >> some gop leaders in alabama say they back moore even if the worst was true. >> unless he can prove his innocence, burden is now on him within the next day or so i believe he has to step down. >> john mccain and mitt romney calling roy moore unfit for office. >> this to me is the party into the gutter. >> if this does not offend your sensibilities what will. >> republicans need to decide if it's worst to have a democrat in the senate or a pedophile. >> i don't remember every dateding any girl without the
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permission of her mother. >> today the national republican senatorial committee announced it's severing with roy moore to alabama senate seat on december 12th because of a 14-year-old girl. and a 16-year-old girl. and a 17-year-old girl. and a 18-year-old girl with whom roy moore had inappropriate contact when he was a 32-year-old assistant district attorney according to a report in "the washington post" based on interviews with over 30 sources in alabama. roy moore let 24 hours pass in the face of these accusations before finally raising his voice in his defense today. but he still did not dare to show his face. >> and so he presented himself to the safest possible forum in america to make his case.
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shawn hanna dty radio show where asked him a series of leading questions that he never would have been allowed to ask if he was roy moore defense lawyer in la croom. shawn hannity tried to help roy moore in every way he possibly could. but as lawyers who represent guilty clients can tell you, he couldn't get the sound of guilty out of roy moore's voice. roy moore denied a statutory rape allegation against leigh corfman what roy moore did to her had she was 14-year-old. gave a statement saying i stand by my comments. the article is very detailed. anyone with questions should please reread it. >> and i want to say thank you to my friends and others who have supported me and my story. and so we will reread some of those accusations. leigh corfman ploemother suppor
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her story of meeting roy moore in the courthouse where he was a district attorney. it reports struck up a conversation with her mother and offered to watch the girl while her mother went inside for child custody hearing. he said, oh, you don't want her to go in there and hear all that. i'll stay out with her says corfman mother, nancy well 71. i thought how nice for him to want to take care of my little girl. according to "the washington post" report, roy moore had other plans for her little girl. called her on the phone. set up a date. with a 14-year-old girl. arranged a place to pick her up where her moent wouldn't know and drove her 30 minutes to his home in the woods. leigh corfman told "the washington post", quote, before she long she was lying on a blanket on the floor. she remembers moore disappearing in the other room and not coming out but with nothing more than
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white tight underwear. she says that he guided her hand to his under wear and she yanked her hand back. i wasn't ready for that. i had never put my hand on a man's penis much less an erect one corfman says. she remembers thinking i don't want to do this and i need to get out of here. every bit of roy moore's behavior that day with leigh corfman was a felony punish bab by at least ten years in prison and that is what roy moore denies. roy moore claimed today that the "washington post" is completely biased against him as it is biased against president trump and that's why they wrote this article with that lie. but then in the very same interview, roy moore used that very same article to prove that he was a good guy. he used the stories about the other little girls told in that very same article to prove that he is a good guy. >> it's a direct attack on this
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campaign. and it involves a 14-year-old which i would have never had any contact with, nothing with her mother, or any courthouse or anywhere else would i have done that. in fact, her allegations contradict the whole behavior pattern that the other two of the young ladies even witnessed them self. >> so there he is saying that the behavior pattern described by the other two teenage girls in the very same article was accurate. he wants you to believe that the other two teenage girls and he doesn't want you to believe the 14-year-old girl who has accused him in effect of sexual assault and statutory rape. okay. here are the stories raioy moor wants you to believe.
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wendy miller was working and he wants you to believe that he asked a 16-year-old on dates and he's a nice guy because he gave up when her mother said no. ray moo roy moore wants you to believe debbie gibson, she was 17, when roy moore spoebke to her high school civics class. he met her in her civics class in high school when he was speaking to the class. and he asked her out on dates. and he had several dates with the girl. 32-year-old prosecutor. the girl he met in her high school civics class. and he's proud that "the washington post" says those dates did not go beyond kissing and no sex on those dates according to "the washington post." debbie gibson says that roy
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moore took her to his house, and played guitar. the same house where he said he assaulted leigh corfman. gloria deason was a 18-year-old cheerleader when roy moore began taking her on gates that included wine, legal drinking age in alabama at the time was 19. they met at the mall, too. gloria deason says they never had sex when she was 18-year-old dating the 32 year old prosecutor. and roy moore believes that that story means that he was a good guy. that's the whole behavior pattern you just heard roy moore talk about. now, let's listen to the part one more time where roy moore is using the other girls in the story to prove that the 14-year-old is not telling the
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truth. >> in fact, her allegations contradicts the whole behavior pattern that the other two ladies witnessed them self. >> and that is it roy moore pleading gie pleading gulty to the preaccusations of trying to date and dating teenage girls when he was 32 years old. a 16-year-old whose mother was there to protect her daughter from roy moore, a 17-year-old he met in her high school self ici class. and a 18-year-old cheerleader, that's his defense, that those girls are telling the truth about roy moore. because they say he did not have sex with him. thaelgs the truth. that's what he says is the truth. that was a very, very incriminating answer. roy moore said that he didn't remember speaking at debbie civic class, but did say that he
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knew her. so naturally shawn hannity asked if you remembered going out on dates with her. >> i don't remember specific dates, i do not. and i don't remember if it was that time or later, but i do not remember that, no. >> but you know her but you never dated her ever. is that what you are saying? >> know her but i don't remember going out on dates. i knew her as a friend. if we did go out on dates, then we did. but i do not remember that. >> in a croom ourtroom if you d rerp if you went out on dates when you are talking about the little girl you met in civics class when you were 32 years old, there is not ha jury? america that's going to believe that you did not go out on dates. there is no man in the world who would not remember speaking to a high school civics class at age 32 and then going out on dates with one of the girls in that
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high school civics class. if we did go out on dates, then we did. that's his testimony. then shawn hannity turned to the general idea of a 32-year-old guy dating teenage girls. >> would it be unusual for you as a 32-year-old guy to have dated a woman as young as 17? that would be, what, 15 year difference or a girl 18? do you remember dating girls that young at that time? >> not generally, no. if i did, you know, i'm not going to dispute anything, but i don't remember anything like that. >> but you don't specifically remember having any girlfriend that was in her late teens even at that time? >> no, i don't remember that. and i don't remember ever dating any girl without the permission of her mother. >> and then shawn hannity had to go to a commercial or in a courtroom they would have called a recess.
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and during the commercial shawn hannity clearly realized there was a serious problem for roy moore that just developed in that interview that roy moore did not deny dating teenage girls when he was 32. and so after the commercial, this happened. >> if you're 32, and you do date, again, this is a difference, 17 or 18-year-old, that's a pretty big gap for a pretty young girl. is that something you did when you were dating? i'm not talking about the 14-year-old in that specific allegation. would it be normal behavior back in those days for you to date a girl that's 17 or 18? >> no, not normal. >> my daughter is 17. my daughter is 16 years old. if she is 17 or 18 i don't want her dating a 32-year-old. >> i wouldn't either. >> and you can say unequivocally you never dated anybody that was in their late teens like that when you were 32? >> it would have been out of my
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customary behavior, that's right. >> out of my customary behavior. there is shawn hannity doing everything he possibly can to guide roy moore to the correct answer and he can't get him there. can you say unequivocally that you didn't date anybody that was in their late teens like that when you were 32? and roy moore says out of my customary behavior. that is a very different answer, a very different phrase from the word never. shawn hannity knew exactly how deep a hole roy moore had dug for himself so he gave it one more try. and he tried to put the right words into roy moore's mouth in a way that would never be allowed in a courtroom. >> and those were the words that roy moore had not yet said. >> in other words you don't
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recall ever dating any girl that young when you were that old? >> i've said no. >> and you think that's inappropriate too, that's what you are saying? >> it's in appropriate, yes. >> and so the best roy moore's defense lawyer could get him to say today is that he does not recall dating any girl that young when he was that old. does not recall that is the roy moore defense. that was enough for republican senator mike lee who tweeted this. having read the detailed description of the incidence as well as the response from judge moore and his campaign, i can no longer endorse his candidates for the u.s. senate. so shawn handty believes if if roy moore dated 14-year-old when he was assistant district attorney, that he is unfit to be
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a senate candidate. and he got roy moore to agree with that principle. and the best roy moore could say is that i don't recall when it came to the question of dating teenage girls that shawn hannity would make him unfit for senate. i don't recall. they did accusations very clear and detailed and roy moore has denied the most important and the most criminal of those accusations. the one with the most severe penalty. and then in most of his interview today, he agreed to the other accusations, bthat i tried to date and date some of the teenage girls but finally left hannity with the contradiction of his own testimony when he said to shawn hannity that he did not recall dating those teenage girls after saying that he did date those
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teenage girls. that was good enough for shawn hannity. it was okay. he accepted that. and that is good enough for the president of the united states who is a self confessed sexual assaulter. and it is so far, as of tonight, good enough for the majority leader of the united states senate mitch mcconnell who invited roy moore into the senate, into a meeting with all of the republican members of the senate, and sat down with him and said how can we help you, what can we do to help you get elected, and not one of those senators and not mitch mcconnell is dragging him back in to say what did you do with this 14-year-old girl. not one of them. but with this sharply set of allegations coming forward to tell their stories, i don't recall is not good enough in the court of public opinion.
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it is not good enough in the court of basic human decency. not good enough. we'll be right back. . you need ? no, i'm good. come on, moe. i have to go. (vo) we always trusted our subaru impreza would be there for him someday. ok. that's it. (vo) we just didn't think someday would come so fast. see ya later, moe. (vo) the subaru impreza. the longest-lasting vehicle in its class. more than a car, it's a subaru. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free. it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth.
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can celebrate a life like no other. find out how at i don't know leigh corfman from anybody. i never contacted her. allegations with sexual misconduct are false. i blee i believe they are politically motivated.
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they are brought onto stop a successful campaign. >> joining us now on our panel. former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan and professor of law at the university of michigan. she's also a nbc news and msnbc legal con trtributor. and i want to go to you first, they should use many elements in evaluating witnesses including their berg, what they are picking up from them in their testimony. we couldn't see roy moore's face today. that would have helped a lot. it would have helped the jury. but based 0on what you heard today in reference to some of the inconsistencies that i just highlighted, what was your assessment of that as testimony? >> jurors are told they are supposed to use their common sense in ha cessing witness credibility. what i heard him say is he doesn't recall whether he ever dated an under age girl at the
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age of 14. you don't recall. maybe you don't recall what you had for dinner three weeks ago on tuesday. that seems legitimate. but you don't recall whether you committed stat tu are rape or sexual misconduct with 14-year-old? that's not the kind of thing you don't recall. it would be an unequivocal no something that you've never done. to say you don't recall means i might have. >> well, he's saying that he's absolutely denying everything that happened with the 14-year-old and of course that's the one where if it was in the statute of limitations the legal jeopardy would be very severe. he's denying that. he's saying he doesn't recall if he dated the other girls. but in the earlier part of the testimony he seems to be saying he didn't date the other girls because you should listen to them, they say that we didn't have sex. >> yeah, and that contradiction that either i didn't date them or i did, and we didn't have sex, it's one or the other. you have to pick one. to argue in the alternative, i think under mines his own
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credibility. >> and i just want to reread leigh corfman response to what roy moore had to say today since we just played his denial one time. she said i stand by my comments. the article is very detailed. anyone with questions should please reread it. and i want to say thank you to my friends and others who have supported me and my family. hand david i can't recommend to people they should reread the article in the "washington post." >> judge moore could have said i've never met her in my life or i met her in the courtroom, i was never alone with her in my life. that's what he said. he said it didn't happen that way. then he said i never committed sexual misconduct. that's ha opinion. different people may have different views about what constitutes miss conduct. even there, there isn't a denial. and of course leigh corfman story is enormously credible. the thing i took away from it is how good he was that he identified people in a moment of distress, carefully severed the girl from her mother, he sent
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the mother on. >> how practiced he was at this. >> yes. he was good. this was not a first time encounter. and so the question i think that is hanging over this whole story is how many other leigh corfman are there who may be more damaged by the experience than she was who are reluctant to talk because they have more pain but will we hear fwr them. >> and jennifer one of the things he said when he was this was a political campaign, i'm sure there will be more accusations that come out. predicted it. >> he absolutely did. you know what was interesting about that, there was no anger. if you were accused f dating a 14-year-old, committing unspeakable acts, wouldn't you be furious are your accusers? he's befuddled, defensive, evasive, but he's not angry. and as you say, his memory that will i didn't use these people as character witnesses is of course bizarre.
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and this goes back to the defense many republicans are using, which is if it is true he cannot be in the senate. what more do they need? instead of 30 witness , 60 witnesses? what other do they need other than the witnesses coming forward on the record in "the washington post" and moore himself. that was enough for michael lee, why wasn't it enough for donald trump or mitch mcconnell? >> and barbara mckad, mitt romney came out today the presumption of innocence is for courtrooms. we use a different standard when it comes to elective office. we'll never know anything we need to know about candidates. we have to use our judgment. and mitt romney said i believe leigh corfman. i believe the women. as a law professor what is your
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feeling of that we need to use this for political candidates beyond a reasonable doubt? >> i grew he with him. we set in croom beyond a reasonable doubt because someone's liberty is at stake of the we might decide to lock them up. this is different. do we want to elevate someone to the esteemed office of the u.s. senate where they will have the way to make decisions about people. this is the same thing. >> let's listen to what congressman peter king said about this. >> in this case the charge is so serious and the fact it's backed up by other women and so hideous, i would say, unless he can prove his innocence, the burden is now on him, within the next day or so, i believe he has to step down. >> david, peter king, is it a geographic thing, you have to be a congressman from new york to think that way? >> well, peter king is also
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fighting for his own life. there is it a larger political context that this seat is important in itself. only a two year hold on the seat e but we are moving into appeared in republican loss of control in the house, is very conceivable. will is a lot at stake. and so there are patterns here. the decertification of donald trump in the 24 hours after the access hollywood tape was much more dramatic than anything that happened. you had about a third of the u.s. senate disa vowing his campaign. this is much more muted response. even after that when donald trump did not sink beneath the waves, that the republican parties closed in on him. but i don't want to be cynical about this, i expect you see that the local alabama party is rallying to roy moore. that's already happened. and the national party may not have much choice. i mean after all tax reform is
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at stake. >> john kasich statement today i've long opposed roy moore and his view points. the actions described make him unfit for office. he should step a side. but jennifer it doesn't seem like republican party has been listening much to john skasich. the report tonight saying the governor of alabama is thinking about changing the date of the election. it seems to be within the governor powers pushing it down the road so they can get rid of roy moore and install another republican candidate. >> i guess she doesn't believe him either. this is the logical progression of a bunch of tribalists who subsume everything, decency, truth, a child's life, to the cause of the party. to getting that marginal tax rate below 39.6%.
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for that it's worth putting roy moore in the senate. so this is the state of affairs. and it doesn't surprise me at all. because if they are willing to take donald trump after the access hollywood, they are willing to take donald trump after he used racist language about mexican immigrants and insulted pows and, and, and, and, they'll accept anything. >> and another republican, congressman barbara comstock of virginia, she released a statement, she compared harvey weinstein, roger ailes, and roy moore, said roy moore should not serve in the u.s. senate. and barbara mc-quade, each of the cases that comstock cited are cases that have not been judd kated by courts. these are cases where if republicans chose to, they can say if true, you can use that same if true defense tonight about harvey weinstein if you wanted to. but i don't hear any of them doing it. >> no, i don't think so. and you know i know that their
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exists in the word i suppose people who fabricate allegations. but i think that one of the things we are seeing syllabus women feeling suddenly empowered to talk about their stories and realizing that people are starting to believe these stories. there are a lot of reasons people don't come forward with these stories immediately. they feel fear. they feel shame. they feel like they are going to be dragged through held if they talk about their experiences. but i think we are seeing a great moment in american history where women are feeling empowered and exposing wrongdoers and are being believed. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. thank you. if roy moore goes to the senate, he will have to do mandatory sexual harassment training thanks to senator amy clof shier. she will join us next.
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thanks to senator amy klobuchar if rachel maddow makes it to the united states senate the first thing he will have to do is undergo sexual harassment training. hear what senate klobuchar said yesterday. >> we are all too aware this happens in our workplaces. we cannot expect it to change on
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its own. >> senator klobuchar to have sexual training for u.s. senators and the staff, it passed yesterday and passed unanimously. joining us now is senator amy klobuchar. >> thank you. >> i think every reasonable person in the country is thinking it coming to this. but roy moore may have first training session in the united states senate. >> that's possible. although we note we have a wonderful candidate in doug jones who is well-respected. the polls have gotten closer. former prosecutor running on trust and how he wants to help the economy down there in alabama and better health care. so i think that's what i'm focused on right now is him and his possibility of winning. but i'll say that the u.s. senate should be an example for the rest of the country. and i worked on this bill. i vet it with senate grassley,
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senator from iowa, republican and we had support from every single senator on the rules committee. because it is really important to tell the rest of the country that no workplace is immune. that this happens at all levels. and it happens when you don't even know it's happening sometimes. and that is why we want to make sure that everyone has this training and it's going to happen within 60 days. it takes effect immediately. there is no bureaucracy around it. then we also are requiring every office to publicly certify that all their staff members and the senator went through the training. >> and i was hoping that the senate learned a lesson when they were listening to anita hill's testimony but apparently not. so this is great to finally have this codified in the senate. i want you to listen to something that former senator boxer said tonight, which is a fascinating idea about how the senate should be handling the roy moore situation. let's listen to this. >> let me tell you what i think
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they ought to do. they ought to send the ethics team committee out there. i served on that committee for years, i chaired it for a while, then highest democrat on there, send a team out to meet with these accusers. you don't have to talk to roy moore. just talk to the accusers. talk to the community. and get involved. don't just say if it's true. find out for yourself if it's true. >> senator, what's your reaction to that? >> well, there is no doubt if in fact he somehow wins this election, which i really have faith in the people of alabama that they will look at the other candidate, doug jones, who is closing in on the polls, but if he somehow ended up there, the senate does have a right to look at the people who are serving. there is a right to expel senators after they are sworn in. you have to have a two thirds vote. and as senator boxer pointed out, the ethics committee can look at allegations.
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senator mcconnell himself was involved in heading up some of the ethics investigation in the work that went on when senator pack wood was basically kicked out of the senate because of issues where ten women had come forward and made very clear claims that he had harassed them. and so this kind of thing has happened before. and every workplace, and i remember we are just talking right now about roy moore and a bunch of people who are more famous, but i think part of what you are seeing happen all over the country is that, whether it's the shift worker or nurse in the hospital or the teacher in the school, that workplaces have to start talking about this, put rules in place. and it is the only way that you are going to see instead of candidates like roy moore, that you are going to see more women in power and see people that have been really suppressed and pushed down and not been able to achieve things, come forward. we still only have 21 women in
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the senate. >> i want to double underline the point you made about senator mcconnell. i remember when he was the republican chairman. the lead republican in the senate ethics committee. and it was his responsibility to bring those charges against republican senator bob pack wood who was a top senator on the finance committee. >> i knew you would remember this piece of history. >> and senator was nothing partisan about it, there wasn't a partisan moment in that investigation and in that process. >> well, and i think you see some of this. you see senator lee and senator daines with drawing their support of moore. you see mitt romney and john mccain, former candidates for president on the republican side saying that they don't think he's fit to serve. so you see some of that. but the point is that he is still the candidate of the republican party of alabama. we have a very different alternative on the democratic side. and when you look at what just happened in virginia on tuesday,
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when the voters there, including more republican suburban areas, came forward and said we don't like the hate rhetoric. we don't like these kinds of words and divisiveness and we want someone else. and something different. and so i think that the republican party nationally sure better look at what they have in this guy with moore. that's their candidate right now. >> and the polls that you've been sighting are looking pretty good. will is a tie being reported in one poll tonight done in the last 24 hours, roy moore 46, doug jones 46. doug jones has completely closed that gap. >> well, and it's, again, not just because of this. you also have someone candidate in doug jones former u.s. attorney, someone who went back in as a special prosecutor, and handled that case from 1963, when those little girls were killed in that church and
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successfully prosecuted it. and then you just look at his record and what he stands for and the state of things in alabama where you have people without health care and you have a situation where you would like to make it esser for kids to go to college. there is a lot of good that you could do if you've got someone in there like doug jones. and that's why i think it's really important that as we look at these gross stories, and the courage of these women to come forward and tell them, that you also see the other flip side, that there is another way, and there is someone that will bring a positive agenda with this idea of bringing people together instead of dividing them. >> senator aim klobuchar, thank you very much for joining us tonight from minnesota on this important night. really appreciate it. >> good to be on. thank you. up next, special prosecutor robert mueller special focus on michael flynn and michael flynn's son puts the flynns in
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familiar with the investigation said mueller is looking into whether flynn discussed in late december a meeting or traiting the russian of a turkish president. lives in the united states. additionally three people familiar with the probe are examining whether they discussed a way to free turkeyish trader in united states. helped iron skirt united states sanctions. flynn was offered upwards of $15 million to be paid directly or indirectly if he could complete the deal according to two sources familiar with the meeting. michael flynn was fired after just 24 days as president trump's national security adviser. after firing him, president trump said this.
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>> general flynn is a wonderful man. i think he's been treated very, very unfairly by the media. as i call it, the fake media, in many cases. >> we'll be joined by one of the reporters working on this breaking news report for nbc news next.
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credit card interest rates 42% and increased credit scores 17 points on average. borrow up to $100,000 with low rates and no hidden fees. find your rate in just two minutes, and take on your debt at this man has served for many years. he's a general. he's, in my opinion, a very good person. we fired him because he said
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something to the vice president that was not so. >> did you know that he had had -- that he had received payments from the russian government or turkish knew. he had clearance from the obama administration. >> you're a very good person, you're fired. joining us now is one of the reporters who broke the michael flynn story for nbc, julia ainsley, and betsy woodruff. julia, this is looking like $15 million of trouble. >> certainly mueller is looking into that. he wants to know if this meeting happened at the 21 club blocks away from where flynn would have been working on president trump's transition. if he actually agreed to this and allowed himself to be exploited as national security adviser, they're looking at possible bribery charges. this is really serious for flynn and it's part of the legal
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pressure that robert mueller is applying when he's trying to get flynn to be a cooperative witness. >> betty, he's a transition official, this is quasi-government official, private season. for him to execute the plan, he can only execute it when he's in the white house and has the governing authority to execute the plan if that's the plan. >> exactly. for the purposes of the mueller probe, one thing attorneys close to the probe tell me, the campaign, the transition and the white house are all considered three separate legal entities. so that makes this type of situation particularly complex for the mueller team. of course it also means that this could implicate two different legal teams since it was looking at a conversation that happened during the transition, but then would have impacted the white house. one did bit about this that's interesting, remember at issue the question of the controversial cleric they were trying to forcibly move from his compound in the poconos over to
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back to turkey. last summer a colleague and i actually spoke with gulen at his compound. it would be hard to get him out of there. it's difficult to get in, a rural area. it would take a lot of effort to try to find a way to extract this man from his home. any plans they had that could have come up would have been really ambitious. >> michael flynn's lawyer has said out of respect for the process of the various investigations regarding the 2016 campaign, we have intentionally avoided responding to every rumor or allegation raised in the media. but today's news cycle as brought allegations about general flynn ranging from kidnapping to bribery. congratulations, julia, kidnapping to bribery, that are jo outrageous and prejudicial we are making an exception to our usual rule. they are false. you got their attention. >> it's interesting because --
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first of all two things i would say. one, as we've report it had story, as you know lawrence we've been reporting this since sunday, robert mueller had enough to indict flynn, we have been in touch with robert kel near, this is the time where they've decided to give a response. of course we know sometimes that's when we get a response, after we run the story. also, what we are talking about here -- >> just procedurally, can we stop for a second, in your reporting on the story, one of the final stages is you run by flynn's lawyer what you have looking for a response? >> of course. >> he had a chance to say something about this while you were -- >> every point of it, yes. we've -- no surprises journalism is what we do here. the point, too, i would make in response to their statement is that we are talking about the fact that the special counsel is looking into that. stand by that reporting, we know he's interviewing witnesses. we're not saying this meeting definitely happened. we're not saying they took the 15 million.
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we're saying this is part of the probe. that's what makes this such a linchpin in trying to flip flynn. and that's what we're reporting. and this statement is saying that we're reporting as fact that he took this $15 million. >> there's nothing in the report that predicts that there will be an indictment on kidnapping or bribery. and betsy, the -- but what it does give us is the sense that the prosecutors have more than one card to play with michael flynn. they've got quite a deck. >> right. rob kellner, flynn's attorney, suggesting you all reported something you didn't report. of course it's long been known that flynn has had significant legal challenges, and that's something we're seeing fleshed out with your guys great reporting this week, the fact that not necessarily on the foreign lobbying front, but the specific type of work that mueller may be considering he could have been engaged with is, as rob kellner said pretty eye
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popping stuff. it's another reason the work the mueller probe does and whatever conclusions it comes to are going to be incredibly fascinating and impactful. >> michael flynn was the one person that president trump warned -- president obama warned president elect trump about, don't hire him. >> that's right, he did. another piece of this as well is the fact that we know when we've reported earlier that the fbi was asked to reup its investigation into gulen and a possible extradition after trump came into office, after the obama administration had dismissed that. >> julia ainsley, great work, betsy, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. tonight's last word is next. [ train whistle blows ] what?! -stop it! -mm-hmm. we've been saving a lot of money ever since we switched to progressive. this bar is legit. and now we get an even bigger discount
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beginning to meet "last word" viewers around the country, new york city, boston and tonight in washington, d.c. talking about my new book "playing with fire" and i'm going to leave you with a sample of the television talk about the book this week. and i know you didn't get to see rachel at 9:00 tonight. so here she is now. >> you can learn about watergate by learning about what richard
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nixon, if you want to learn about watergate, learn about what the country was like and what was going on in the country. and the way to start understanding that is to understand '68. >> oh, and there's a little bit of collusion in the victory in the end that is worth -- it's actually richard nixon used collusion with the foreign government, the south vietnamese in order to win in the end. >> and for the rest of the story, playing with fire is now available in bookstores and online. if you can bear the sound of my voice for hours on end, the audiobook is available too. that's tonight's last word. "the 11th hour with broian will jams is next." $15 million for flynn to have a turkish president's rival sent back to turkey. also two republican senators tonight withdrawing their support for roy moore as the alabama candidate calls the sexual misconduct


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