tv MSNBC Live With Alex Witt MSNBC November 18, 2017 6:00am-7:00am PST
good morning, everyone. i'm alex witt here at msnbc headquarters. it's 9:00 a.m. in the east. the plot thickens. a senate panel says jared kushner failed to turn over e-mails and wikileaks. about face, a look behind president trump's decision to keep an elephant trophy import ban if place for now. roy moore fallout the embattled senate candidate's wife leaves a woman fighting for survival. today another twist in the saga. >> in your writings, you say research led you to ask whether moscow was involved with
president trump. >> a new book about russia, alleged trump campaign collusion and spies. that's next. but we begin with new details in the investigation in the russian interference in the presidential election. nbc news learned son-in-law jared kushner failed to disclose a dinner with a banker involved in organized crime. ken, with a good morning to you, we have the senate judiciary committee saying jared kushner's liam team halls not turned over all of the documents requested, that includes the ones concerning a russian back door overture dinner invite. what do we know? and is it significant? >> reporter: good morning, alex. it is significant. it represents another russian with high level connections to the kremlin circling around the trump campaign and because jared kushner failed to disclose that he was in receipt of these e-mails, this man is the deputy
head of a russian central bank. he's been accused by spanish prosecutors of having ties to organized crime. he denies this, he was trying to get a meeting with a senior trump official around a rifle convention in kentucky back if may, 2016 and an e-mail chain made its way to jared kushner, he actually instructed the campaign to pass on the meeting. his lawyer says, look, it's good thing for jared kushner, but they didn't disclose this approach was paid. they had these emales to congressional investigators, who this week admonished them for. that it turns out he did get a meeting with donald trump jr. according to him, he had dinner with donald trump jr. on the side lines of this nra conference. members of congress want to know how that meeting got set up. what was said and what was the nature of the meetings? >> speaking of meetings, rob goldstone agreed and he broke with the russians. why is it so important to this
investigation? >> well, rob goldstone the music promoter was the meeting mediator of the family of oligarchs and donald trump jr. rob goldstone sent the e-mails saying, don jr. there is a russian effort to help your father. this lawyer has dirt on hillary clinton. we've seen the e-mails. mueller wants to know what else rob goldstone can tell him. the nature of the meeting, what was set up. what was being offered? so these are really important witnesses. >> thank you, ken, for that. meantime, in alabama, caleb moore is fiercely defending her embattled husband, who is refusing to back out of the alabama senate race. several women have accused roy moore of sexual assault which they say happened decades ago. good morning, maya. this next special election is about what a few weeks afwa, december 12th. is it moving forward on schedule
despite this controversy? >> reporter: yeah, it is moving on schedule, alex. good morning to you, too. we are about 25 days away from that election in december. but there are still questions about the republican nominee, roy moore and his past behavior. that's dividing voters. in a little more than a week, at least nine pim have made allegations against roy moore about inappropriate behavior stretching back decades, ranging from unwanting pursuing of teenagers to sexual assault. moore denies all claims of sexual misconduct. his campaign calls them quote politically motivated. he avoided the spotlight on friday, his wife kayla did not. speaking to her husband's supporters. >> even against all the attacks against me, against my family, against the foundation now against my husband, he will not step down. >> reporter: on friday, alabama's republican governor
kay ivey says while she has no reason to not believe his accusers, she still plans to vote for moore, to help republicans keep their majority in the u.s. senate. >>ly cast my vote december 12th. i do believe the nominee of the party is the one i will vote for. >> reporter: not all women are convinced. in moore's hometown some soft scrutiny welcomed. >> i think it's an important issue. i think the truth needs to be dug out. there are things that have been known here for years and years that have gone unchecked. >> reporter:while the white house is pushing back on claims that president trump stayed silent against the allegations of moore. >> he said if the allegations are true, he should step aside. he weighed in when he supported the rnc's decision to withdraw resources from the state of alabama. >> reporter: moore's opponent democrat doug jones, not mentioning his opponent by name butting a only ining all the attention paid to this race? i think for all women, we're at a tipping point in this country
that we are seeing and we are powering women to stand up and speak out and i think that that's a wonderful thing. >> reporter: the democrat doug jones you just heard from there was actually benefitted from moore's troubles. he's raised about a quarter of a million dollars a day since news of this scandal broke. alex. >> that is remarkable. okay. thank you very much. let's bring in paul singer, washington correspondent for "usa today" and john har wits, editor at large. john, i want to start with you. we look at the polls which seem to favor roy moore's opponent doug jones, conventional wisdom on this reads what? >> that doug jones is a slight favorite. he has moved ahead across a range of polls, fox had him up eight. there was a poll yesterday that had him up five. it's a long way to go. it's a very conservative state. we don't know whether the shock of this scandal and initial
impact will fade over time and people revert to familiar patterns. he is in a food position to win. which is why republicans have been so desperate to conjure up some scenario by which they could get a republican other than roy moore in. but it doesn't look like they've got much in the way of good alternatives. >> support of the white house saying the allegations against president trump and senator franken are different, since the senator admitted to his behavior and the president has denied his. what does this posture by the president in the white house? what does it signify in the middle of this national dialogue we are having? >> you know, it's an interesting thing that statement from tra press conference did strike me as the most critical moment. what they're saying, fought whether it's true, whether it's false. if you have admitted it, then it is true, if have you not admitted it, then it doesn't matter and it's false. in fact, i'm surprised in the roy moore context, this is a man
of deep christian faith. i think it would be easier for him to admit and seek forgiveness, which is something you would expect, seeking forgiveness is a very well respected tradition. you will say, i made a mistake, i did something wrong, that was me 25 years ago, it's no longer me, i have since found my savior and redeemed myself. i think it will be better to defend than hiding saying i didn't do this or the trump position, as long as i didn't admit it doesn't exist. >> hillary clinton gave a number of interviews from her husband's scandals, roy moore, al franken. here's what she said about kiersten gillibrand saying her husband, bill clinton, should have resigned over his affair with monica lewinsky. here it is.
. >> so john, on top of the closeness between senator gillibrand and the clintons, how big a deal are these comments by the senator and what was your reaction when you heard it? >> reporter: look, senator gillibrand is somebody who is an active politician with an ongoing career. she might like that career to include a race for president. and given the drift of the story right now, i could see why she decided to step out and make the comments that she made, to try to get out front of it. and i also understand, to some degree, the distinction that she was making between what happened at the time and the shifting standards that we're in now, but you can't expect clinton and people around clinton to react in anyway other than to be upset by this, because kristen jill brand is somebody who they have
supported in the past. >> paul, i'm curious, the al franken situation, do you think he will be forced to resign? should he be or is there a difference here? >> i don't think he will be forced to resign. the senate could go so far as to perhaps sensor him -- senseture him or to say they as a body reject his behavior. few will be forced to resign, it won't be through the u.s. senate. it could be he does in minnesota have enough of a backlash from his supporters that say you need to step down to make a point about how we treat women. that's conceivable. but i don't think there would be a formal process in the senate that would lead to his being expelled. >> okay. so, john, i want to now turn to the russian investigation with you and play you what luke harding, a journalist, who interviewed christopher steele before the dossier became public what he said to me about having compromising information on the president.
here it is. >> some of this when you have donald trump saying russia if are you listening, find the e-mails, which are not there. you have a long history of engagement. trump first visited moscow in the summer of 1987, who invited him? the soviet government we can say without exaggerating the kgb has a huge file on donald trump. they are interested in his weaknesses and exploiting that. >> do you think the mueller team has this huge file, has a sense of everything that luke harding has written about in his book? >> reporter: without a doubt. and, look, as that interview showed, there is so much now that is in plain sight. the contacts, the financial information, look at richard engel's story yesterday about the trump ocean club in panama. this is somebody who has had financial interactions with russia and russians over a very long period of time, a wide
range of context to the highest levels of his campaign and i think bob mueller, as mike gearsen the former busch chief speech writer said in the "washington post" column today the trump team is about to get hit by a legal tidal wave. i think bob mueller is serious as a heart attack and this investigation is moving forward pretty quickly. >> in fairness, i want to say about the ocean club in panama, donald trump will bed his name to this hotel. he didn't run it. >> that's right. >> we need to make that clear, i'll make that statement there. who picks in the mueller investigation, where do you think that stands, where do you think hope hicks in the investigation, are we getting towards the investigation because she is in the inner circle or not necessarily? >> reporter: it's always sort of hard to tell when you reach the ent end with these investigations, as jonathan is pointing out, you know, remember
that the clinton impeachment arose from the investigation of the monica lewinsky affair, with i is not why that special counsel was launched. they were launched for the emdo you. these things have tentacles. you can never know how deep those tentacles go and what they're looking for. they could be looking for mr. manafort's relationships with russia or hope hicks to talk about how these statements were put out regarding jim comey, that part of the investigation into obstruction of justice, that is a different tentical of this investigation. it's never really clear. it is true if they are talking to hope hicks, it means they are moving up the food cane closer and closer to the president, himself. >> okay. have a good estate, guys. good to have you on the show, appreciate it. >> thank you, too. coming up, a republican says roy moore is a stain on the party. congressman charlie dent will be here to talk about why he believes more is unqualified for office.
i dare say that there has not been a politician as bold, determined and courageous in fighting for the cause of liberty and our rights since the times of john quincy adams. >> somehow this godly, honorable, principled, strong leader has been faking being such a man for 40 years, every day in every capacity. you just can't pull that off for
40 years. nobody can. it's absurd. >> a group of women rally'd outside of the state capital in support of roy moore, making bipartisan calls on him to step aside. joining my congressman of pennsylvania charlie dent and former chairman of the house ethics committee. good morning to you. you have said roy moore should get out of the race even before the allegations of sexual misconduct surfaced. in the case of senator al franken. you said it's up to the people of minnesota to decide if she should resign. what is your take on both and what is the difference? >> first, let me clarify something. i did not support roy moore. i set he was unfit for office prior to these serious allegations of sexual misconduct. because of his platant disregard for constitutional limits, he was removed from the state supreme court twice. he has made very incent area
statements about religious minorities and the lbgt communities, among other things. she a fringed candidate. of course, he should step aside. i would never support a man like this for office. on the issue of al franken, the senate ethics committee is going to investigate him. i think we have to let that process play out. as a former chairman of the house ethics committee, i can tell i when we've had some difficult cases that involved various types of misconduct, while members were in office, you know, we would sanction members, sometimes members would resign on their own to avoid any institutional further institutional turmoil. so i want to be clear about. that i did not say leaving it up to the people of minnesota on the al franken situation. his fate is in the hands at the moment of the senate ethics committee. >> so should he resign on his own? >> i think we have to let the process play itself out. that's how i feel about it. i have served in the house and i've seen, i've seen this over the years.
bonn boehner had a very high standard and if members got into some sort of trouble, he often forced resignations, you may remember a member took his shirt off. inappropriate photograph of himself and some other issues perhaps that member resigned. we had a resignation a month ago of a member. we had resignation, a member who had used cocaine was resigned. and even before that, when the democrats were in charge, when a member of congress, he had inappropriate contact with male members of his staff. he resigned. so we've often dealt with these situations through resignation as well as through the committee t. ethics community in the house. we can only offer for sanctions if you will, expulsion and there have only been seven or eight expulsions in the history most which occurred during the civil war for treason the james
trafficant case and abscam, there was an expulsion there, a reprima reprimand. they can become criminal matters. we're not a body that makes judgments on criminal action, we only deal with members generally who have committed violations while in the house. we never had jurisdiction of members when they were not in the house. so actions that occurred prior to their service ordinarily would not be brought up by our committee t. house could force us to do that. that's typically not what we do. we only have jurisdiction over current members and staff. >> okay. i'm glad you made all of that clarification for us. as you know the president has re-visited past scrutiny of him after plasting al franken of misconduct. he has largely stayed mum on the roy moore allegations. what do you make?
should he just stay out of it? >> absolutely. i think for the president, less is more, given the accusations that were made against him. there is nothing good he can say on this subject. if i were the president, i wouldn't have said anything on al franken just as he hasn't said anything on mr. moore. >> okay. let's move on to tax reform t. latest poll shows 52% of americans disapprove of the republican tax plan bill. why do you support it when people say they don't like it? >> this bill is a work in process. let's be clear, the american tax code is over 70,000 pages long. most americans do their taxes look i do, you take all the paperwork, dump it off, the accountant puts it together. you sign it, sunday it in, hope for the best. it's enormously complex. so let's try to simplify this, make it a bit fairer, rates come down. most americans in my district,
nearly 70s% of my constituents do not itemize, the filers, they don't itemize so what matters to them are rates. so what will happen to those folks, many of whom are just working middle class and lower income people, they're going to see a doubling of their standard deduction and their rates will come down. that's very important to them and i think too it's important we address the overall business tax climate in this country t. american tax code globally is not competitive. we need to bring that corporate rate down from 35% down to something lower, 20% in this case. i heard people say that's a give away to the rich. but america should not have the highest corporate income tax in the developed world. we bought to become competitive. most americans agree with that. >> in terms of timing, one of the criticisms, sure the corporate tax cut rate is permanent. but the individual tax rate phases out after ten years, have you white house chief economist asked about this several times
during yesterday's white house press briefing. here's one explanation he gave. >> those are the kind of things that are being worked out by congress in order to create a bill that under senate and house rules condone law and the non-negotiables for us are both met in both bills. we consider that good news, but the choices that the senate has to make in order to acquire a coalition to make this law are choices that the senate has to make. we don't want to get in front of that process. >> so why should corporations guarantee having a tax cut while working family versus to worry about what politicians might decide six, seven years from now? >> you may remember too in the 2003 tax changes they expired after ten years, all those tax changes, tax cuts were extended for the middle class. i would expect the same thing to happen with these two. they would be extended. by big concern on tax reform is what the senate may do. i think it's important the senate separate out the health care issue, that is the
individual mandate repeal, keep that out of the tax bill. i think that will make this issue much more challenging, much more complex and problematic. >> i want to get to your announcement that you are not seeking re-election, which means republicans have to worry about a third seat in the mid-term election in that cycle there. any fear this could imperil your party's chances? >> oh, by me not running? sure, any time a member decides that he's not seeking re-election in a swing district or a marginal seat, that certainly makes that seat more vulnerable to takeover. not only myself but dave reichert and pat teaberry say we are not running, we are in areas that are competitive. so to the extent that members in the swing districts vacate and create open seats, that makes these seats more vulnerable. my seat is a slightly leaning
competitive race for sure. there are multiple candidates on each side that have jumped in. >> all right. representative charlie dent, it's good to talk to you, regardless whether you are running or fought. thank you so much. the heat on attorney general jeff sessions and the russia investigation does not appear to be getting, he's joking ab it. that's next.
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. >> welcome back, everyone, i'm alex witt here at msnbc headquarters. president trump announcing he'll take another look at his administration's decision to lift a hunting ban, which would have allowed hunters to import elephant trophies into african countries. nbc's tom costello has more on this. >> good day. these, of course, are some of the world's most beautiful animals, elephants are big prizes with central africa losing over 60% of the elephant population in a decade. sometimes as many as 100 a day. the tweet came overnight after hearing the roar from animal rights advocates, president trump weighed in on the department of interior's controversial decision to allow elephants and liions to be brought out of africa as trophies. the president tweeting, put big
game trophy decision on hold until such time as i review all conservation facts a. temporary win for cons vacation activists. >> having elephants and liions is a huge driver to the economy. there are millions and millions of people from all over the world to see it alive. >> reporter: now if they end up easing restrictions, conservationists say it's a huge step backwards. >> we're essentially rolling out the carpet for the next walter palmer. >> reporter: he sild cecil the liion in zimbabwe. a beloved symbol of that wild i wild life studied by researchers. heart broken, fall u palmer said, if i had known this liion had a name and important to the country and a study, obviously i would not have taken it. but dr. palmer faced fury at home and was forced to close his dental practice for two months, his vacation home vandalized.
in 2016 the obama administration listed the liion as threatened and barred americans as bringing them back as trophies after africa lost 43 liions. the u.s. fish and wild life service disagreed, saying the killing of animals in zimbabwe will enhance the survival of the african elephant, arguing the country uses the money to step up conservation efforts. this morning the big debate, will the dollar spent to husband these majestic animals save the species or is it just an excuse to put a trophy on the wall? tomment tom costello, nbc news, walk. a new sign russian investigators may will closing in on president trump's inner circle. ♪
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. >> jared kushner's lawyer is pushing back against a senate judiciary request for missing documents related to the russian election meddling investigation. senator dianne feinstein and chuck grassley asked for e-mails and asked for revised security clearance forms. joining me now a political correspondent with business insider. always good to see you, good morning. why is kushner the subject of such intense focus? is this increment am release of information, is it suspicious that it's coming out in dribs and drabs? >> yeah, this is not the first time, of course, that jared kushner has failed to disclose
everything on his forms or to the committees questioning him about the election and whether or not the campaign colluded with pos cow. jared kushner had to review his clearance forms and add 100 foreign contacts he initially left off. so if this was the first time this had happened, you could forgive him for forgiving to include perhaps a few e-mails that maybe got lost in the shuf him. as they have all said, they were receiving and accepting thousands of e-mails during the course of the campaign. again, there was not the first time kushner failed to disclose this i would add this is a pointed e-mail t. subject line was russia back door and it seems like if anything was to be given to the committee, it would be that. >> politico is saying bob mueller is hoping to keep a gate keeper and part of the inner
circle for years now, what might they learn from her and does this at all give you a clue as to the investigation and timing where it stands, does it mean it's getting towards the end? because they're getting to trump's inner circle? >> reporter: it's definitely reaching a critical mass. hope hicks has been there two years now, very, very close to donald trump. has been his communications and press secretary for a long time. she has been there, including when he fired fbi director james comey and when donald trump crafted this misleading statement about his son's meeting with natalya svetlanaeskaya last june, including programs trump's state of mind when he fired the fbi director and crafted this statement that, of course, said, that, of course, failed to mention that the reason they met with the russian lawyer in the first place was they were trying to obtain dirt on hillary clinton. so in terms of where this
investigation stands now, it seems like there are two separate tracks him one of them is robert mueller is trying to determine whether or not trump sought to obstruct justice when he fired the fbi director. >> that is where hope hicks and her insight is useful. >> what about donald trump, jr. he took that meeting. he confirmed communicating with wikileaks during the campaign and a russian banker and putin says he sat with trump jr. at the nra dinner event last year. is there a bigger beckett emerging here? >> absolutely, donald trump jr. is very important piece. he keeps popping up. he had all of these contacts with russians during the company, with wikileaks that we have not learned about until now. it's really donald trump jr. needing to play catch-up. at the meeting after the "new york times" reported on it in july, donald trump jr. had to get out ahead of the "new york times" and release the e-mail chain that led up to that
meeting. similarly, after the "atlantic" published these exchanges with wikileaks, he had to address the whole conversation with wikileaks. he had not been forthcoming beforehand. if anything, donald trump jr. is putting the white house and you know members of the campaign in a tough spot just because he has not been forthcoming about everything that happened there do you think we'll see donald trump jr. and jared kushner at a hearing answering questions in public? >> i would be surprised they were not called to do that. >> thank you so much. the senate questioning the president's power for nuclear weapons. and that's at 1:00 today t. author of a new book explains why he is questioning whether moscow has blackmailed donald trump. .
for the first time in 40 years, a senate committee is discussing the president's authority to launch a nuclear strike. tuesday's phone relations committee was led by senator bob corker and outspoken critic of president trump. >> is this hearing -- >> not in anyway. no. we've gone through a series of hearings. >> we are concerned that the
president of the united states is so unstab, so volatile, as a decision-making process that is so quicksotic he might order a nuclear weapons strike that is wildly out of step with u.s. national security interests. >> the hearings come amid es that lateing tensions with north korea. joining me now general barry mccaffrey, overall, your thoughts on whether you think americans should review this policy for the launch of a nuclear attack? >> well, i think we should. obviously, senator corcoran and others in the senate were concerned about president trump's language at the u.n. general assembly, which almost explicitly threatened nuclear attack on north korea. his tweeting, demeaning, ridiculeing of kim jong-un who has 60 nuclear devices. so that was the initial thought behind i think these hearings,
but alex at the end of the day, we look at the control of nuclear weapons, there is what we call the two-man rule, there are no single person in the u.s. armed forces who can unilaterally do anything to authenticate or launch a missile, it's all two-man control except for the president of the united states. so it's probably appropriate at this point to rethink that policy and have a requirement the secretary of defense and the president collectively should authorize preemptive use of nuclear devices. >> you are reflecting the sentiments on wednesday on that in the "new york times." do you believe the rules do not cater unforeseen circumstances and why is this coming you only since president trump took office in. >> i think it's coming up, when we look at north korea, we are almost inexorably moving to a
binary choice, are we going to take military action against north korea, with conventional air and sea attack to eliminate their nuclear program or are we going to mitigate the impact of living with a north korean threat with 100 nuke cleared armed acbms? so that's where we're headed. i have been concerned about the general notion that we might well end up at war through miscalculation on the north korean's part by this coming sum early a. conflict with north korea with ewould destroy their armed forces within six months. there would then be a pressure on them to go nuclear to strike guam or u.s. naval facilities in japan or what whatever. so i think it's time to rethink how we control these weapons, which are primarily based on deterrence and we did this when there were tens of thousands of nukes, we established these
protocols. we were concerned about the russians disincentivizing them from thinking they could do a first strike and get away with it. it's nuclear deterrence based on the russians that north koreans could not decapitate the u.s. leadership. they can't destroy our second strike. so we need to think, are we comfortable with one person unilaterally making these decisions? >> the required strategic command says the military can refuse to follow this order if they consider it to be illegal. do you agree with that? >> no, not at all. secretary of defense bill parry, this remarkable public servant said recently, don't believe that we will not automatically carry out these strikes. they will. these are 15-minute decision literally, if you are facing a
sublaunched nuclear missile strike in the united states. we need to change the protocols. we understand ought to understand that personal reliability is a question in this case also. >> all right. a coming up. general mccaffrey, thanks for your insights. >> good to be with you. the prospect of shy voters in alabama who won't admit they support roy moore. some answers, next. you may suffer from dry mouth. try biotène®, the #1 dentist recommended dry mouth brand. biotène® provides immediate relief from dry mouth symptoms that last for up to four hours. in fact, biotène® is the only leading brand clinically proven to soothe, moisturize, and freshen breath. don't just manage dry mouth symptoms with water, soothe, moisturize and freshen your breath, with biotène®. this has been medifacts for biotène®.
says she plans to vote for roy moore in the december 12th special election, even though, she says, she has no reason to doubt the women accusing roy moore of sexual misconduct. let's bring in so fee sophia nd political analyst jonathhnathan alter. ladies first, sophia, do you think this is all going to boil down to what voters think is most important, another gop senate vote or the candidate's morality? >> alex, it's good to be back. two things, roy moore is steadily dropping in the polls depending on which one you look at. he went from being ahead to now he's not. i think that obviously the alabama voters are going to decide what they think they want to do here, whether it's doug jones or roy moore, given everything that's happened. i suspect that he will lose the vote. i have faith in the voters of alabama. i think there are some people pollsters aren't talking to. i'm disappointed in governor ivey and disappointed in the
women i'm seeing holding press conferences backing roy moore. women not supporting women is not a new thing, we've seen it a lot. i do think there's a challenge here and i do think roy moore will lose, but i think that, you know, we're going to see what alabama is going to do. >> jonathan, sophia springs up the polls and specifically these new polls have doug jones leading roy moore by five points and eight points respectively. how much stock are you putting in those jnumbers, jonathan? do you think there's a silent majority backing roy moore that isn't willing to publicly admit that? >> i think you cannot at all rule out that there are a lot of people that don't want to tell pollsters what they really think. you also have the fact that there's more than three weeks to go before the election. remember, alex, a month before the presidential election last year, the "access hollywood" tape came out and a lot of republicans withdrew their support from candidate donald trump and then a month later,
people weren't talking about it anymore. so sometimes these issues strangely enough can fade. this one should be different because we're talking about underage women, teenagers. that's what separates it from a lot of these other cases that have been in the news. and roy moore, you know, basically admitted it. he said that he asked the mothers whether he could date their daughters. in his interview with sean hannity he gave conflicting statements. so this idea that he's denied all this is not actually consistent with the recent record. and for the governor of alabama to say that she's going to support him anyway, even though she believes the women, that is truly putting party ahead of any elemental sense of decency or respect for children. now, what would have happened, alex, if these had been young boys? at what point would the governor of alabama and other roy moore
supporters say enough? if it doesn't even work for young women, teenagers, we're really in a bad place morally in a state with voters that claim that they're close to god. >> you know, sophia, a bit later on this morning the reverend william barber will be speaking at an anti-roy moore news conference and he's been calling roy moore's christian rhetoric hypocritica hypocritical. does he have a point? >> i think we've seen a lot of this. it started with donald trump in 2016. look, i consider myself an evangelical christian. but at the end of the day i've been deeply disappointed in the racial divide. that's a whole other show for another day. we need to do about white evangelicals versus black evangelicals are approaching this issue of roy moore, i.e. reverend barber and what he's going to say which i'm sure is going to be very in your face to roy moore. so i think this is a hypocrisy here that's stunning. like jonathan said, with children, underage sexual contact, assault, and we keep --
you saw the guy that said it was joseph and mary-like. anybody to say that, like jonathan said, we're in a very different place in this country on a number of fronts. >> the term hypocrisy is aimed at democrats during the way in which bill clinton was handled during his time in office. can you understand where those criticisms are coming from? >> yeah, i do. but people forget, and i covered all this in the 1990s very extensively. bill clinton did pay a pretty big price. you know, he went through a whole impeachment trial in the senate and it wasn't as if there wasn't any accountability. i thought and a lot of other people did, including a lot of democrats, that he should have been censured by the u.s. senate for his conduct in the monica lewinsky case. but we don't want to get into the situation where people who were not covering it or not even alive at that point think that he paid no price. that's not the case.
>> so democratic senator al franken also facing claims of sexual misconduct and the white house is drawing a distinction between the accusations aimed at candidate trump last year and the ones aimed at senator franken. the white house saying senator franken has admitted to wrongdoing, the president hasn't. so, sophia, should admitting to misconduct, does that warrant different treatment? >> yeah, absolutely not. the president has had close to 16 women accuse him of sexual assault and al franken had one, i guess, with the photograph and he quickly apologized. he said i'm wrong, i could be investigated. donald trump refuses to say any of that. he called the women liars and said he was going to sue them so there is a double standard and it's wrong. >> alex, we're in a situation where if you lie, that's better than admitting error and trying to move on. and also donald trump did admit he did it. in the "access hollywood" tapes he said you can grab them by the you know what and goes on to
describe that he took part in this kind of activity. there's voluminous evidence that he did so. so this is just another sign of how degraded our national conversation has become by this president. >> well, i'm glad for ours, though. jonathan, sophia, thanks so much. that is a wrap of this hour of "msnbc live." i'm alex witt. right now it is time for "a.m. joy" with my friend, joy reid. you simply cannot think that bowing a godly, a true, a trustworthy, a valiant leader on the principles of the bible -- >> he stands on the premise that when you come to take our rights, you spit in the face of god. >> you need to send the strongest message possible to the powers that be. alabama will not bow. alabama will not