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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  November 20, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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balsam fir. traditionally get it just before christmas but spending at beach this year. jackie kennedy was known for fondness of picking tree themes and spending holidays in, you guessed it, palm beach. that's it for me tonight. back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "the beat" with ari melber starts now. bob mueller is seeking evidence from his own bosses in justice department. has the authority to get documents from the agency overseeing his investigation, including man overseeing him and man saying he's recused from this probe, jeff sessions. he was back in congress again explaining his statements. mueller is not only putting
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bosses in tough spot but scrutinizing their own potential role in any obstruction inquiry. two men laid out rationale for firing jim comey. said he was wrong in way he handled hillary clinton's e-mail investigation, that the fbi could not regain trust until a new director understands the gravity of comey's mistakes. that letter was really odd at the time. and you may remember this too, looked even odder when donald trump admitted on television to lester holt he fired comey with russia on his mind, not the clinton investigation and letter coming out that week from the doj. mueller is probing those conflicting story lines and doj communications with white house counterparts. so bob mueller is checking whether trump loyalists involved in that now infamous firing,
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like stephen miller participated in this. miller reportedly wrote one draft of the letter. and "washington post" is reporting that nervous aides in white house are talking about their nervousness. mueller heading to classic gambino style rollup and other staffers greet each other by saying, good morning, are you wired? nothing wrong with gallows humor in a tough time. but take a step back. russia probe has had dramatic moments before. this is an administration that thrives so much on drama, sometimes it seems to create it when there is a quiet week on the horizon. but note in the washington picture tonight, the drama is hitting a truly constitutional dimension. federal prosecutor collecting evidence on his own supervisors at doj and looking at how they
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dealt with their supervisors at the white house with the mission to determine if, if there was a plot to obstruct justice. and if there was, was it hatched with the cooperation of the people donald trump put in charge of defending justice? that's top story tonight. joined by bob bauer. served as president obama's white house counsel. now a professor at nyu law. also shelby holliday from the "wall street journal" and former agent clint watts. begin with you. this is inquiry that you very happily i imagine didn't have to handle. runs to crux of whether there wassest at obstruction by the people supposed to carry out laws of the united states. >> yes. that's right. i was happy not to have handled it. and you're correct that so-called supervisors still have to respond to mueller's
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investigation and as government employees, have to give evidence. they're going to be compelled to provide the information he needs to inquire deeply into this obstruction possibility. >> clint you've done interviews as fbi agent right? >> yeah. that's right. it's going to be interesting to pair what comes through in the documents, what is really in the white house team, and what you hear from the doj folks. in terms of preparation, how they understand their job, doj personnel giving up documents are going to be much more on task and to the point. what's going to be odd or interesting is the mergen between obstruction case and russian influence. so far we've heard about russian influence, now seeing the obstruction part and real question, were president trump's actions related? >> and how did the doj respond.
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did they get hoodwinked, making them more of a victim, or a plot, write a fake letter when we know what this is about. as i often say, we don't floe. that's allegation, conclusion. but jeff sessions was asked and said he hadn't heard in mueller yet. >> no discussions with mr. mooimr. mr. mueller or his team or fbi about -- >> nobody else at fbi? >> no. >> department of justice? >> no. >> white house? >> no. >> when this is over, do you expect the mueller team to talk with sessions? >> last people interviewed are those at top of the organization and top of the two investigations. looking at sessions and stephen miller, will be the last ones folded in. collect everything around the periphery before you bring it to
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those people. want to nail them down with all the perspectives and data. i'm sure that's why they're going to doj and asking for records the past weeks. to see does it line up with potential pressure that might have been coming from the white house. >> shelby, the politics of this, we're going into thanksgiving, did the looking for other fights, talking about sports and other stuff that people talk about. >> about being thankful at briefing. >> and layers and layers of gratitude. >> positive spin. >> good vibes only at briefing room is good rule of thumb if you can get there. talk about the politics of the inquiry that goes back to donald trump's style of governing. because i heard from people who like donald trump that he was going to shake things up. heard that in new hampshire and other places, but i don't think they were imagining shake up like fire a bunch of people in clumsy way to create drama, even
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if you're trump supporter, wow, got so close to what might look like obstruction, you're wasting time on the agenda. >> it's intent. did the president obstruct justice and can you prove intent? one thing about donald trump's entire career, he's made a name for himself firing people on television. that's part of who he is. but was he prepared to be the president, did he know this would get him in such legal hot water? and is it intentional or mistake because that's who he's been and been able to get away with it whole career? news this people is clear, not ending by thank, wishful thinking in the white house. but mueller is still continuing down two paths, obstruction of justice and russia collusion path. could see them come together with a charge against flynn. nbc reported recently that
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mueller has enough evidence to charge flynn, but don't know how he will tie them together. >> there's a difference between firing lil john and jim comey. different moves. and firing on tv show, first fbi director removed without a stated cause in history. only other was removing after internal report found embezzling allegations. what do we need to right the ship? bad judgment? lawyering? a bad approach? how do you fix that as white house lawyer? >> it's difficult to judge bad lawyering. you don't know what sort of client a lawyer is dealing with. lawyers can't always rise above the sins or mistakes of their clients. first thing they can do is avoid making things worse. one of the objectives of
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bringing in general kelly and chief of staff and mr. cobb as lawyer/policeman in the building is assert discipline and stop missteps that might make the situation worse. particularly with a president with a passion for tweeting, how important it is not to make additional mistakes and make the situation worse. >> how do you view the reports that don mcgahn, intervened. doesn't mean thought it was poorly worded? >> draft that put it off on treatment of hillary clinton. >> donald trump listing off a screed of why he didn't like james comey. >> you can assume he's stepping in when nonlawyers are solving
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communications and legal problems and bringing to their attention the implications of the behavior. >> when mueller looks at first draft that didn't go out, is that potential evidence? >> absolutely. question is what weight goes to it and what role it plays in the developing narrative. >> there are also letters written on the plane for example that hope hicks was exposed to regarding the trump tower meeting. there are a lot of letters and evidence in writing that take time to sift through. not wrapping up anytime soon. >> thank you shelby, bob, clint watts as well. coming up, trump justice department moving to block a media merger. is this about cnn and trump's agenda? >> also new revelations about jared kushner's old newspaper and links to wikileaks during key point of the campaign.
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also the trump administration is putting a journalist on trial regarding protest. >> also draining the swamp on "the beat," i'm ari melber. we'll be right back. whoooo. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course,
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thoughts on roy moore, mr. president? do you believe his accusers mr. president. >> thank you very much. >> that is what it looks like when donald trump is silent, a rare sight. but he remains silent on the roy moore scandal, continuing for 11 days. one of the moore accusers is speaking out about how she was 14 when she met roy moore. >> he basically laid out blankets on the floor of his living room and proceeded to -- seduce me. during the course of that,
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removed my clothing. touched me over my clothing, what was left of it. and he tried to get me to touch him as well. >> the largest news publisher in alabama is turning against moore. moore had also been ahead of doug jones pretty consistently, averaging six point margin. now jones is pulling ahead by a bit. moore denies all the allegations and is now blaming mitch mcconnell. >> mitche mcconnell who wants t stop this campaign. i believe with all my heart that mitch mcconnell and the establishment are in cahoots with the democrats to stop this campaign. >> joining me, reporter of the "washington post" and former governor. i don't know how much time to spend on conspiracy theories. one of the newsroom choices we make. if mitch mcconnell were behind
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this, would have intervened on the primary not now. that's one rebuttal. but deeper issues. >> he knows the conservative movement is over if they allow men like roy moore to be elected to office after accused of child molestation and sexually assaulting a 14-year-old. how can you claim moral superiority as christian conservatives if you allow a child molester in your ranks? i think roy moore is turning blind eye and trying to save himself however he can. >> and created environment where accusers are speaking out more than ever. leigh corfman talking about underlying allegations and why now, which is a question in politics. >> the "washington post" sought
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me out. didn't go looking for it, fell in my lap. i told them at the time, the reporters, were all just wonderful to me, if they found additional people, that i would tell my story. and they found those people. i've voted as a republican for years and years and years. but this is not political for me, this is personal. >> look, we all know there's a first mover disadvantage for rape and sexual assault and harassment victims. women know if they come forward first, likely not to be believed. it's reality of society as it always has been. we're having this massive cultural reckoning, women coming forward and others are realizing they can come forward and be believed. that's why now. i don't understand why people are still asking that question. >> governor? >> this is a test for
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evangelical christians, are they really christians or right-wing, mean-spirited conservatives? this is a test for state of alabama, are they going to turn their back on what was going on in alabama for a long time and say no, it's new day, going to do the right thing? no question about this. not like somebody way out of step with where alabama is in doug jones. he's great candidate, moral, did a lot of great things for the state. comes from alabama, both parents grew up there, blue collar, hard working people. there is no contest. this is a moment of truth for state of alabama and evangelical christian movement. so far the movement has failed the test, let's see what happens to state of alabama. >> moment of truth, fox news today, i don't know if moment of
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truth, i don't know how much truth there is in the next 40 seconds but kellyanne conway's way of dodging some of this. >> and doug jones in alabama, folks, don't be fooled. he'll be a vote against tax cuts. weak on crime, borders, strong on raising your taxes. terrible for property owners. >> so vote roy moore? >> doctorner liberal and why the media are trying to boost him. >> vote roy moore? >> we want votes in the senate to get the tax bill through. >> do we have the right language for what that was? >> i mean it was basically endorsement. white house is telling alabamans to vote for roy moore because we're going to choose a child molester over a democrat. more important to pass the tax bill than to protect actual children. let's not forget that tax bill takes away health care for
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children, defines fetus as person, takes away tax credits for teachers. so essentially what she's saying is, we're going to prioritize unborn children and republican politics over actual children who have been and will be hurt in the future by this policy and this politician. >> governor? >> truth about the tax bill is it, if you make less than $75,000 a year, five years from now, taxes higher, not lower. this tax bill is not aimed at donald trump's constituency but his friends. they get huge break, average americans see taxes go up and benefits go down. nothing here with anything to do with what kellyanne conway has to say, not invited on television anymore other than fox because didn't -- only bam voters can make that decision. i think they're going to do the
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right thing and elect doug jones. >> howard dean and laura basset on a story that keeps going. ahead, trump justice department announcing new lawsuit to block a media merger. which could be a good thing unless it's just a way to target cnn. and how jared kushner's newspaper wikileaks, i have the reporter who broke the story. you actually like what you do. even love it. and today, you can do things you never could before. ♪ ♪ you're developing ai applications on the cloud. finding insights hidden in decades of medical documents. and securing millions of iot sensors. so get back to it. and do the best work of your life. ♪ ♪ whentrust the brand doctors trust for themselves. and do the best work of your life. nexium 24hr is the number one choice of doctors
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breaking news tonight on donald trump's attacks on the media and whether his administration might violate the first amendment by targeting cnn. this is unusual story to say the least. explain what is going on. tonight antitrust prosecutors at trump justice department are going to court to block merger of two big media companies, at&t and time warner. many critics who say media companies are getting too large,
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usually critique on the left. and on the other side free market conservatives say the government should stay out of these mergers. now the republican doj is trying to block this merger. critics saying this stems from his critique of cnn. we don't know if that's true but trump doj did say would block whole merger unless at&t were to sell cnn. at&t and ceo addressed the question tonight saying trump was abruptly changing antitrust law, an approach which could compromise first amendment freedom. >> nobody should be surprised this question keeps coming up. abrupt change in antitrust law here. bottom like is we cannot and will not be party to any agreement that would even give the perception of compromising the first amendment protections
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of the press. >> how unusual is all of this? tonight the "washington post" reporting this is the biggest antitrust case to hit washington in decades. fraught with political risks for both sides. administration position is radical, inexplicable, but they welcome the case because trump's lawyers have to bear the burden of proving it's illegal. cnn fixation. tweeted about it triple then "new york times" and fox news. talks about cnn all the time. >> cnn which is so bad and pathetic and their ratings are going down. they've been fake news for a long time. been covering me in a very dishonest way. cnn and others. nbc is equally as bad. >> you're attacking us, can you give us a question? >> i'm not going to give you a
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question. you are fake news. >> tonight the doj is stressing this move is all about combatting media consolidation under the law, not tarting any particular media company, president's comments about cnn not a factor. no secret that donald trump talks a lot of trash about the press. tonight's story is not about talk. this is a story of government power and whether as some allege it is being abused right now tonight to retailiate against the free president. matt, begin with you. lot of people interested in these issues. msnbc known as something of competitor to cnn. my brother worked at turner, own by parent company. but is this normal thing that doj is doing about mergers under republican administration or not. >> no it's no the.
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doj hasn't brought a case against a vertical mergeern like this in many years. can make a substantive case for and against this merger. question is political interference, not just given the president attacks on cnn but said during the campaign he would try to block this merger, something the president shouldn't be involved in at all. my question is where is the career staff at doj? what is their take on this? today i talked to party involved in the case, said discussions with the career staff was going fine for months. negotiating consent decree, parties agree to not do behaviors. and then political leadership showed up. megan -- the new antitrust, oversees the division. came from the white house directly, previous job, and the discussions changed and department of justice started
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insisting on full divestiture. >> you're throwing around a lot. but saying that nonpartisan people were not going to block this merger probably. then this gentleman most people haven't heard of, mr. dell raheem, comes in as political guy to start changing the tune. notable. before all of this became trumpified, he didn't think it would be blocked either. take a listen to this. >> as an example of the power structure i'm fighting, at&t is buying time warner and thus cnn. a deal we will not approve in my administration because it's too much concentration of power in the hands of too few. >> that's interesting context because it's donald trump's warning. but take a listen as i mentioned to this person that trump hired who is tonight taking this merger to court.
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previously hadn't suggested he would do that. take a listen. >> just the sheer size of it and fact that it's media i think will get a lot of attention. however i don't see this as a major antitrust problem. >> so when did he change matt? >> good question. that was his position before he went to work for donald trump. after he completely took a different position. as you were asking before. in terms of the career people, who knows where this would have come out but their discussions i was told revolved around a conse consent decree and that later changed. >> we reported on how at&t's strategy in trial would be to look at communication between the white house and justice
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department. while the ceo said today he didn't think cnn was factor in this -- >> didn't say that. said he didn't know. >> said he didn't know. >> and other reports they were bullying these two companies to sell cnn. if true, always the thing, would that be a normal way to deal with this merger? sell one random news organization? >> no. in fact comcast/nbc deal, comcast didn't sell any entities to get that through. they agreed to conditions to follow. some critics say that comcast may not have followed them, but doj official says i don't believe in that sort of thing. would rather see properties get sold in order to get the deal through. >> which is interesting, will be headed to court. is this trump approach going in different direction because of animus towards a particular
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media company, whoever it may be? this breaking news is a lot to unpack and lot there. jerry smith and matt miller, thank you both. up next, connection between jared kushner's newspaper and wikileaks. reporter exclusively on the "the beat." and punishing journalist for actions in trump inauguration protest? that's later. i love you so much. we're going to be best friends forever.
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when jared kushner was just 25 years old, he bought a newspaper in new york city for about $10 million. friend said the "new york observer" was a graduation president from his father. now that paper is getting tied up in russia issue. saying that published dozens of stories celebrating wikileaks. and favorite of guccifer 2.0, russian hacker. >> wikileaks stuff is unbelievable. tells you inner heart. you got to read it. wikileaks, i love wikileaks. >> foreign policy reporting writers trumpeted exclusive access to leaks and solicited
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them openly. retweeted that russian hackers now leaking directly to jared kushner's paper. trump campaign not even being subtle anymore. media history is under scrutiny. "observer" long history as contrarian publication in new york and many gorged on information about hillary clinton. could look different now with extent of russian interference. but e-mails, could apply to many newsroom and some say this one. what have you found here? >> in this case it's instance of pointing out now that jared kushner is back in the cross hairs, especially in congressional investigations, what is there to ask about his connections to the observer tlt?
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there's clearly lot of stories about the wikileaks, all positive and not just dnc hacks but positive about julian assange and allegations besides the dnc hacks. >> you worked for jared kushner and joined us on the "the beat" before with that unique experience. is this something jared kushner would be aware of or just going on anyway? >> couple of possibilities. important context, editor and chief of the paper was close friend of the kushners and russian operative. plays into the story a little bit. not first time that hired a freelancer parroting talking points from the russian. another who wrote over 12 articles for "the observer" that
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spouted kremlin talking points. in both cases kushner says he and paper isn't to blame because these are freelancers. as someone who has been editor of paper, i find that preposterous. >> and read this defense as well. i never communicated in any way with julian assange and this fact-free charge is analogous to pizzagate and other ludicrous conspiracies. just because uz found this material used, idea this was higher level plot or plan is itself a conspiracy. want your response. >> absolutely. kind of quote referencing pizzagate turns it back into your face and is meant to be provocative. and just because solicited that
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doesn't mean you don't talk to jared kushner every single day. >> jared kushner seems to have a disclosure problem. there are rules, some backed by federal laws about what you have to provide for security clearance and meeting with congress. and fact he's making mistakes, we're always fair here, doesn't mean underlying problem. doesn't prove it in sense of court of law. yet, as just came up with missing e-mails according to bipartisan feedback he got from investigators, view was he was not forking over stuff on wikileaks contact which comes after not forking over material on russia meetings. your view knowing him. >> you have to go with occam's razor here. failed to make multiple disclosures. seems to be part of a problem.
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36-year-old with a serious memory problem or simpler explanation? >> is there? >> if it's memory problem, there are a lot of memory problems going on. entire entirely possible he could be trying to say it's something it's not and just keep trying to explain anyway something he's wanting to hide. >> there is space between benefit of the doubt and reasonable doubt. i appreciate you both walking us through it. trump's d.c. hotels back in the news for not good reason. fundraisers used to attract new donors. straight ahead. more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country.
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with the notable exception of 1600 pennsylvania avenue, this is the most coveted piece of real estate in washington,
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d.c., the best location. >> that was such a weird moment. can look back on it now and remember that donald trump, a week before the election, touting his own hotel, stopping in the busy i campaign home stretch, talking about it being best thing since the white house. now it's new flash point, critics alleging major conflict of interest. way for lobbyists to get into donald trump's good graces, put money into property that goed to him. and now holding a lottery for getting trip to the hotel. similar to people who went to mar-a-largo, got to attend a dinner at trump's resort and be in close quarters with top law enforcement officials. this issue is one that former senator russ feingold has been warning about for years.
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at one point synonymous with campaign finance reform. alarm on issue that white house is struggling with today. >> when congress debates the issues that affect your lives, you have every reason to wonder if campaign money plays a role in the decisions we make. wealthy interests have too much power in our political system and the system has to change. >> when you look at these issues today, do you see them as issues of law, supreme court has made it harder to deal with corruption, or uniquely issues of people. never had a president choose to run a business while president and basically flout any notion of traditions around nepotism and confliktz of interest and all of this stuff? >> i see it as matter of law,
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morality and national pride. the building he's turned into this hotel, which is for sale now to the highest bidder basically, great old post office building. part of the landscape here in washington near the mall. turns it into this shameful thing. where special interests can buy access so close to the capital and apparently the national republican party is happy to participate in it. this is against the traditions of clean government we need to return to in this country and we're far away from in the donald trump administration. >> does he not get it or just think the rules don't apply to him. he famously said he could run everything at the same time, no problem. take a listen. >> i could actually run my business, run my business and run government at the same time. i don't like the way that looks but i would be able to do that
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if i wanted to. >> your view? >> my view is he doesn't care about the ethics, the law. his lesson unfortunately is because he became president, he can get away with whatever he wants to do. so if he wants to sell access like this a few blocks from the u.s. capital, he figures why not. somehow there has to be accountability. >> when you say access -- >> the american people have to stand up and say we don't want a president who is corrupt. >> when you say sell access, is that part of the strategy for the d.c. hotel? >> may be deliberate and message to foreign governments and businesses, don't work through laws or system, get there another way, go to florida, post office building that's now the trump hotel. it's easier and frankly undercuts our national security. tells people our government
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isn't on the level under donald trump. it's for sale under donald trump and he's happy to make as much money as he can and doesn't care if illicit interests get special access that the rest of us would love to have. >> other big story on corruption was mistrial in your former colleague bob menendez in new jersey. lot of evidence of gifts. question of whether gifts are enough. do you have a view of that? something close to the line? we have a tradition of respecting the outcome here and it was mistrial, but separate from the verdict, was it problematic to see a democrat taking so many gifts? >> john mccain and i first worked on banning gifts for members of congress. first initiative that passed in the mid-'90s, you've identified two of the cancers on the
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system. gifts to members of congress that can be personal in nature, illegal but still may occur. and unlimited campaign contributions. why we have the superpacs that are destroying the system. >> was that bad judgment by senator menendez's part? >> i think he would be the first to say it's probably bad judgment, but i'll let the courts decide whether it was something beyond that. >> you've been a leader on this for a long time, and there has been a lot of talk about the swamp. i appreciate you joining us tonight. >> great to see you, ari. there is breaking news i want to bring you an update on. charlie rose has been accused of sexual misconduct. a "washington post" report breaking news tonight that eight women have come forward and accused the news anchor of unwanted sexual advance. one of his assistants recalled a dozen incidents where rose walked nude in front of her while she worked out in within of his homes. another five were anonymous. the allegations include him allegedly walking around naked, groping, lewd calls that rose
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released as well. here is a statement that i want to read to you from charlie rose. i deeply apologize for my inappropriate behavior. i am greatly embarrassed and have i behaved insensitively at times and i accept responsibility for that, although i do not believe all of these allegations have accurate. they have suspended rose and pbs announced it's halting production of the show "charlie rose" that is a brand-new story that we wanted to give you an update on. well will continue to update here on msnbc as the news warrants. now there is another story that is very important. do you remember when donald trump told jim comey allegedly he wanted to jail journalists? there is one facing a trial this year for many decades in prison, and you need to see why. that's next. our recent online sales success seems a little... strange?nk na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast."
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now to important story that has been flying below the radar. critics alleging the trump administration, looking a little bit more like an authoritarian regime there is the threats that the department of justice go after political enemies there is the report from jim comey that the president asked him to try to jail reporters. and now this trial starting this week. alexei wood, a u.s. photojournalist may be facing just that. he is facing up to 60 years in prison. and it all started with him covering trump's inauguration day protest. >> so howdy, folks. we got ourselves three blocks of
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black block. all right. it's happening time, y'all. he was pretty aggressive there he was pretty aggressive. you're pretty aggressive, buddy. [ bleep ] [ bleep ]. >> why are we fighting each other? [ bleep ]. >> [ bleep ] you! we have some graffiti. >> five, four, three, two, one! >> what did you just see? well, that's what a court is going to figure out. wood is charged with being part of a riot, rioting conspiracy and property destruction. he insists he did nothing illegal. but the prosecutors are arguing he effectively ceased being a journalist and became part of the protest there he was going to cover. but does, that even that argument justify the many felony
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counts? he may not be a journalist or he may. that may affect what he did. but he is also an american with constitutional rights covering an event with his video camera. and the larger question posed here are whether the norms are starting to decay under trump and are they starting with people who are easier to target, not necessarily starting with the most famous journalists on the block. that's a question that is explored in a new important piece by huff post justice reporter ryan riley. in fact, he wrote his piece in the motif of covering another country cracking down on the press. ryan riley is a senior justice reporter for huff post and he is here now. nell about this story that may be new to a lot of viewers, but you say is bigger than what everyone thinks of this particular video journalist. >> right. to start off with, i think what you saw in that video was conduct that i certainly wouldn't engage in. a lot of journalists wouldn't engage. in i think that from what mr. wood has told me, he sort of has had second thoughts about how he engaged that sort of language
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that he used. but there is an importance of underlying principle here. it's sort of scary when you have a situation where someone is acting in a capacity as a journalist. he was saying he was trying to document the situation is arrested and this isn't a misdemeanor situation where we've seen those sort of cases before. these are serious felony charges that could result in a very lengthy stretch in prison. and a lot of press advocates throughout are worried about it, and worried about the larger cases too not only because of his case, but the other five defendants that are on trial here who also say they didn't actually engage in any destructive activity, but were simply at this sort of wrong place at the wrong time when they were grabbed up by d.c. police officers who formed -- >> right. and the traditional concern is that a blurry line can be abused by the government. this was an issue certainly in the civil rights era about what constituted, quote/unquote conspiracy to riot. is there any physical act at the
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core of this or is a lot of this about the things he ed? the rally? >> there is really nothing physical that is a question here. i attended opening statements in the trial today and the government is really is focusing on a couple of the moments where you highlighted in the video where he essentially skbress what you might deem his support and talking about graffiti. those are the sort of things that prosecutors are going to center in on. the interesting thing here is the government wouldn't be in possession of any of that evidence. it wasn't as though officers singled him out and said oh, he is singly offering up support for the protesters who are destroying things. they only have that evidence because he live streamed the whole thing. they're using this live stream and his own words against him. while these are certainly words that professional journalists might not be using when they're covering something, that doesn't -- that blurry line there doesn't mean that these are anything -- these are still activities that you would think would be protected by the first amendment. and a lot of people are worried about the conspiracy charges
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being used so aggressively in this case. >> that's why it's so unprecedented there can be a ton of stuff on the video that is objectionable. it doesn't mean it should necessarily give you hard jail time. ryan reilly, thank you for your reporting, putting this on the map. i'll be back here tomorrow night, 6:00 p.m. eastern. but "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. the victim speaks. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. in her own words today, lee corfman gave her first interview. she was 14 years old when a 32-year-old roy moore pursued her and sexual abuse herd. something moore denied. corfman sbland happened after she said moore took her to his home. let's watch. >> he basically laid out some

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