tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC November 21, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
however, i have been informed by the white house counsel's office, that tater and tot's pardons cannot under any circumstances be revoked. >> that's all tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." >> i feel like did he actually ask somebody if he could revoke the pardons. >> i'm glad you brought us that tuesday pardon news. >> now he's pardoned three people. three things. three pardons. arpaio and two turkeys today. >> three pardons, who and what they're for is the harder part. thank you. on "the beat," developing news on two big stories. president trump breaking his silence on roy moore. and here exclusively on "the beat," i have new reporting on the russia investigation. trump's personal defense attorney ty cobb talking on the record with the beat tonight and
he dishes on his view of the time line on mueller's russia probe and some of how he views his obligation to president trump. that report is later this hour. it is not our top story though because our top story is something you really need to see with your own eyes. it has been 12 days that donald trump has been holding back, refusing to answer the shouted questions about pedophilia questions about roy moore at the white house lectern. and then ignoring questions about moore in the cabinet room. tonight what you need to see is president trump has weighed in. >> we don't need a liberal person in there. a democrat. i've looked at the record. it is terrible on crime, terrible on the border, terrible in the military. i can tell you for a fact, we do not need somebody bad on crime, bad on borders, bad with the military, bad for the second
amendment. is an accused child molester better than a democrat? >> well, he denials it. look, he denies it. if you look at what is really going on, and you look at all the things that have happened over the last 48 hours, he totally denies it. he says it didn't happen. you have to listen to him also. he said 40 years ago, this did not happen. so you know. i'll be letting you know next week. i can tell you, you don't need somebody who is soft on crimes like jones. >> what is your message to women during this pivotal moment in our country? talking about sexual misconduct. you've had allegations against you. >> all i can say is he denies it. by the way he totally denies it.
>> roy moore does totally deny the allegations that he preyed on teenage herbs and everyone is entitled a fair process. just this month he talked about getting parents' permission about dating their daughters. investigative reports have gone i don't understand that. other evidence has emerge that had he was banned from youth venues because of his behavior. as a judge, he ruled with the abusers over minors and there's a new context on trump finally weighing in. today today he said this about trump. i'm sure he understands the damage false accusations can do and the danger of rushing to convict someone in the court of public opinion. tonight marks two weeks and a day since this story broke. moore's latest strategy is clear. to tie his predicament to trump's. donald trump did not say there in that exchange that he agrees exactly. although his support for moore
came today with an observation that moore's female accusers are trump voters. >> well, he denies. roy moore denies it. by the way, he gives a total denial. and i have to say, 40 years is a long time. he's run eight races and this has never come up so 40 years is a long time the wrem trump voters. all do you know is you have to do what you have to do. >> from harvard university, the white house reporter. professor, i start with you. these women accusers are trump voters, he says, as a teemingly unrelated point to what looked like an embrace of roy moore's policy. 15 days out of the accusations.
is that your view? >> i think what trump reminded us is that there is no bottom. we continue to see that there are no depths to which he won't desce descend. i think he was trying to give people a moment. he said we should believe the women that they were trump supporters. i think it was a hail mary pass. if i'm a republican, i would be furious because the president opened his mouth. >> he's been trying to play both sides of the issue the entire time saying through his spokes room that it was troubling but saying the people of alabama should decide. i think we saw a continuation of that, so to speak. we also heard him say that he could campaign for roy moore.
which was new. because even his counsellor, kellyanne conway said yesterday, that he wasn't expected to campaign for moore. you will recall he didn't support moore in the primary so that's something i'll be moving forward. >> you should take a listen to a little more from donald trump and then a response. a brand new one. it is always just breaking from nicole wallace who is known as not only a journalist. but a high ranking republican. take a listen. >> women are very special. i think it is a very special time. a lot of things are coming out and i think it is good for our society and very, very good for women. and i'm very happy a lot of these things are coming out. i'm very happy it is being exposed. >> women are very special and i'm very happy it is being
exposed. and i'll going to throw my weight as a man who has been accused of sexual misconduct by nine women. >> i think it is a remarkable doubling down as someone who is, who never backs down. it is remarkable to see that he was able to even after the "access hollywood" tape but after many women told the new york times and other publications that they were harassed by the president, that he was able to be the president. because it is so remarkable. he has no reason not to back roy moore. moore is accused. you see republicans fleeing. president trump is never on the same page as the republican party. president trump is essentially
completely i gnoring it. he didn't have to talk about democrats at all and he is saying roy moore's candidate is he soft on crime. he could have said this person isn't the right candidate for us. it didn't have to go to republicans against democrats. there are republican who's say we could have a write-in campaign. successfully happen. so to me it is just remarkable to see the president double down. >> the way you laid it out, you're reporting to the ethical and logical holes here which i think doubles back on the point francesca was. in trying to have it both ways, the whole thing doesn't even make sense. there's an ethical problem of leadership. and on that point, you talk about fleeing the republican party.
take a listen to neil cavuto at fox news in a broader discussion. he points out on many issues, donald trump not acting like president if that means leading and taking clear positions. >> you have the real estate, the white house. you have all the advantage of being the most powerful human being on the planet. you don't have to throttle any human being who offends you. last time i checked, you are the president of the united states. why don't you act like it? >> that's again conservatives saying, he's not acting like a leader this week and you have these new comments tonight. >> there was a push. he was asked about it in asia but really said we'll talk about it when i get back but didn't talk about it. so anything on this topic.
you saw him taking quite a few questions on this matter today. but i want to talk about the point, she mentioned the writing campaign. that's something i asked the white house about yesterday and it didn't up in today's conversation. the idea that kellyanne conway said the same thing donald trump said today. that doug jones would be terrible, he would not be a vote for tax reform specifically which the president really wants and needs for his jenlds. so i asked, what the president be supportive of a write-in campaign for sessions in or luther strange? and the white house really danced around that issue and said they answered the question. it is for the people of alabama to decide so they're really not trying to get involved on that issue. it's interesting. he could potentially mount a
write-in campaign. >> right. and that goes to the conservative party looking for alternatives with the idea that either they can't stomach supporting roy moore. or if they want a republican agenda, they should take what might be a higher risk because some things are worth the risk. i want to you stay with me. i'm going to bring in a conservative columnist and thought leader. what did he do tonight? i think he's established the whole breach between the prior connection between the republican party and what he called traditional morality. and expectations with the idea t the, he has similar charges to the ones against moore.
he is also making it very clear that in his party, there is no need and no reason for conservative politicians or republican politicians to levy moral judgments against conservatives and republicans. >> you put it starkly. you've studied as political scientists do, realignments. john is arguing, this is a type of selective partisan realignment that at least donald trump is pushing and the standards shouldn't apply to certain people. >> right. so one thing that donald trump is really good for doing is stomping all over ideas that say, for example, the republican party has to be the party of morality. or is the party of morality or family values. he's said this during his campaign, arrest he was elected.
he said that those things are irrelevant. winning the a all costs. this is not roy moore tying himself to donald trump. this is donald trump tying himself to roy moore. for those who are saying they have a woman problem. this is a huge, huge kind of smackdown, if you will, in that area. women don't take kindsly to being told they are not valuable. that their stories are not to be believed. that's what donald trump did this afternoon. >> you talk about believing. take a listen to the democrat in this race who we don't hear as much about. >> do you believe roy moore was a sexual predator? >> i believe the women. i believe their stories have
credibility and i believe them. >> how do you believe donald trump -- >> i'm going to let the people of alabama make a decision. i feel like my record speaks for itself and i don't have to have the president or anyone else talk about it or try to label it. >> what do you think of the line that he's walking? >> i think trump was trying to thread a needle. saying, he said he didn't do it and it is 40 years ago. on the other hand, we should believe women. it's great. and it is all getting exposed. and they're trump voters. he is trying to muddy the waters. i don't think he is trying to say that roy moore didn't do it or did it. it is all a mess. and therefore, you can vote for moore if you want to. >> isn't that with this situation, a rather extreme political permission structure? >> i think it is unconscionable.
i think that it is the best hand if you're going to play the hand that trump is playing and basically say, look, i would really prefer if you put moore into the u.s. senate. to say it's great. all the stuff is coming out. roy moore said he didn't do it. you have to listen to him, too, it was a long time ago. in theory, he is getting it both ways. i don't think anybody listening to the issue will accept it but if he muddies the waters enough alabama voters who would be inclined to listen to him will bite the bullet and. >> thank you. stick around, francesca. i want to talk to you more about
it. and then our other big story. i have exclusive reporting on bob mueller's russia story. the beat and the time line and upcoming enter vuss. and the immigration agenda stopped by a judge in its steps. and later, my exclusive interview with the journalist who is literally on trial by the trump investigation. you're watching "the beat."
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mueller's probe. he has been quoted as saying it could wrap up by the end of the year. a new "vanity fair" report suggesting that maybe that prediction was more of a strategy for containing twrump the goal of preventing him from flying into a sxrag firing mueller. tonight we have new exclusive reporting here on "the beat." ty cobb says, i'm not shaping this time line to calm anybody. and he goes on to say, my time line gets reported the whole thing would be over. what i have said for the last several weeks, is that the interviews will wrap up shortly after thanksgiving and there's a foblt entire mueller matter can be resolved in early january. that again is brand new exclusive reporting. ty cobb, the criminal defense attorney for donald trump, on these reports about how he has been managing both the case and his client in the white house. cobb shooting back on the idea that he would try to sugar coat
any bad news to the president. he said in my job, you have the responsibility to give the commander in chief honest information. let's get right to it. the former federal prosecutor, pro if he issor at georgetown law who specializes in public corruption. abigail, i'll go right to you. obviously your story has struck a nerve. what do you think? >> i think he is making a point. he is saying the interviews are different than the entire investigation. this time line that he's putting forth now is still incredibly aggressive. particularly compared to the estimation that's i'm getting from legal experts i've spoken with are saying elsewhere. and i think back to his don't, you don't sugar coat news to the president. one thing donald trump has
demonstrated time and time again, that he self-sabotages and at times opens himself up to legal risk. so i think it is unlikely that his legal team will shape a narrative to prevent donald trump from laying the groundwork. >> and that would be in donald trump's self-interests. you have this report saying, maybe white house lawyers are just worried about making donald trump feel good. but i want to be clear about our reporting. we talk to as many sources as i can. i have ty cobb here tonight saying this could be done by january and he is not just saying that to calm his client. >> there's no way. you've got the manafort trial that they're talking about at the earliest, having it start in april of next year. the whole point is to put the squeeze on him so that he will
testify against others. that takes time. even the trial itself takes at least two or three weeks. he has to be sentenced which wouldn't happen for another two months after that. so if he gets the full 15 years, that the government wants to have imposed on him. the idea that he will cooperate until he gets that sentence, this is going to go on for a long time. >> let me get you on the same question. referee this claim from the white house and then your analysis. just on the claim that the interviews could be done. i think what they're arguing is that by january, the fact finding could be done. y yes, anything can change. >> play the song when you wish upon a star because it's fantasy. papadopoulos and ryan, michael flynn is in his eye sights,
carter page, maybe even kushner or trump jr. he is looking at them and finally an interview with the k. donald trump. >> and all of that with the phone call between putin and trump that went about 90 minutes. this is back drop for the legal intrigue. trump says of course he will continue to talk to world leaders. critics say gosh, an hour and a half is a long time. take a look at donald trump talking about what they talked about. >> we had a great call with president putin. we're talking about peace in syria. very important. we're talking about north korea. we had a call that lasted almost an hour and a half. >> i think it speaks to this
overarching trend. this is raising more questions about what's good on. it is not unreason panel you would have this with a foreign leader. 90 minutes is an incredibly long time. obviously there was the russian detail on the syria mechanism to determine where these chemical womens are being deployed. which is a big issue. but you come back to it. a and. >> what is he doing talking to putin for 90 minutes? he has criticized everyone. he's criticized his own majority
leader in the senate. the one person he's never said a b bat. it is weird. >> the question is what does vladimir putin have on donald trump? >> and the question is, who knows what? a any, any participant knows that john dean was so critical because of his roles as white house counsel. and don mcgann, adviser on comey firing, is sitting down with the team. >> so much to ask the white house counsel. >> he was still fired.
it took forever even after it was known that he lied to the vice president. so lots of questions why. did he keep he him on for so long? what did you tell bhim the firing? so there was this meeting with attorney general sessions, deputy attorney rod rosenstein and the white house counsel. where they talked about why they would fire comey. again, it is a gold mine for a prosecutor. you have the communications adviser. mcgann who knows a lot and they have to spill the beans. it will be dramatic. >> one of the things about this job is hearing from so many experts. ty cobb on the record, plus two prosecutors. this has been fascinating. if i don't see you again before thanksgiving, have a good one. and a special programming note. this friday we have our first special show on location.
it is called russia on trial. debating evidence of collusion. we will be live on location to hear both sides he pressing the case. we have a prosecutor and the defense attorney alan dershwitz. he is waging trump's defense. it could be interesting. and ahead, more on the breaking story. donald trump urging people to vote for this accused predator. what is happening on the ground? and a photo journal iist. how he covered the protest. and that reporter you see is on "the beat" exclusively tonight. it's what this country is made of. but right now, our bond is fraying.
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undocumented residents. there were protests and legal challenges. now i can tell you the entire trump policy there is blocked. the federal judge ruling it is unconstitutional. that is yet another place where trump's rush on immigration has had a cost. he spent six days on that and eight days on the travel ban. you remember that. they also ran into something of a wall in the court. it turns out trump's attempt on tough talk, citing trump's own public comments against him. >> i'm against sanctuary cities. if we have to, we'll defund. >> this judge based the ruling against trump partly on the president calling his policy a
quote, weapon in that same o'reilly interview. >> so defunding is your weapon of choice. >> it is a weapon. >> but you're willing -- >> i don't want to defund anybody. i want to give them the money they need to operate as a city or state. if they're going to have sanctuary cities, we may have to do that. certainly that would be a weapon. >> this week's new setback to trump began when san francisco's city attorney, dennis herrera, took the trump administration to court and dennis joins me now. your response to what looks like at least procedural or first step victory. >> well, thanks. it is much more than procedural. it goes to the heart of an unconstitutional executive order. it was unconstitutional before the ink was even dry on the paper it was printed on. and we're gratified by the
court's ruling. it demonstrates for purely political purposes, to scapegoat communities across the united states, to speak out without any concern for public safety. the trump administration was engaged in a partisan political stunt that was certainly not based on the rule of law. >> do you think you would have been less likely to score this victory if donald trump had been more careful in his public remarks and less rushed in pushing out that first executive order? >> that is certainly a possibility. as you alluded to in the introduction, the court's order made very clear and the judge highlighted the language of both the president and the attorney general. revealing what the true purpose was behind the order and its attempt on coerce cities into
carrying out federal responsibilities. >> can i ask you about that? >> it is so weird. in law school, they used to talk about this. if you make a rule that says the only way to catch discrimination is to say, well, if the government announces it is discriminating, then you're busted. you say, but who would ever admit that? and there is as well documented, all sorts of discrimination. yet here we are with an administration that does seem to announce what you're calling unconstitutional intent which is part of why they lose. >> that's absolutely right. when you're drafting policy making, to have lawyers and scholars reviewing what it is that you do to make the findings that you make, if you're truly strike to get at some public policy problem. what this revealed was that it was nothing more than a partisan
stunt designed to appeal to a political base that the president felt like he had to throw the red meat to, at the expense of public safety and communities across the country. >> and the point on their response, i want to mention one of the architects of steven miller. he once said he would debate voter fraud on any show, anywhere any time. i don't know if you caught that. his invite remains open. if he is willing to come organization would you be willing to talk to him about your issues? >> any place any time. >> thank you very much. coming up, president trump backing roy moore despite the abuse allegations. how is it playing on the grounds in alabama? >> and then later the protesters on trial. the photo journalist who could face decades in prison. ♪ i feel like fire
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huntsville, alabama, how is this playing this evening? are people that you're around, are they hearing the trump weigh-in? >> we're actually here at an event in which doug jones the democrat will be attendsing in the next 20 minutes. he is the one on the campaign trail. we went to his huntsville field office where a couple dozen canvassers were coming in and out. he held a press conference in which he said he believes the women, their stories. you're talking to people on the ground. it is quite a stark contrast if you're looking at the campaigns being done. roy moore has been missing since thursday. we have not seen him in public. you saw three more surrogates held a press kompbl on the steps of the montgomery capitol. they tried to poke holes into
two of the nine women to have come forthwith allegations. the other seven who have prenth allegations have interestingly not been as rebuffed. but roy moore, seems to take great pleasure in donald trump's comments. quickly retweeting nbc news' video. as well as putting out a statement to supporters where the youtube video of donald trump's comments and embracing it. and seeming the suggest it was an endorsement. >> does any of that surprise you? there seems to be an inverse campaign going on. the poor campaign seeing a strategy where they have more to lose than to win by being out in front of people. >> also, it is not surprising that roy moore would send out that video of donald trump.
it is playing in washington as a major boost that the president said today that he might campaign with him. he also said that the women were special. we heard all of that earlier. he also seemingly said, look, a vote for roy moore is better than for a democrat. the best thing playing out here nationally is you have that. if they lose the senate seat, that brings down the republican stronghold to 51 seats. and already, republicans have had difficulty passing major being of legs like an obamacare repeal. and we're now looking at taxes but they haven't passed it yet either. with the december 12th election, that could see whoever wins that seat, seated pretty quickly. it has to be making republicans very nervous, the idea they could blues senate seat
currently held by a republican. what that could do to their agendas. and a major part of the story. >> that so much hangs on it. such a product of jeff sessions. so many moving parts. i know we'll be checking back with you. still ahead, the trump protest trial. one photo journalist faces years in prison. he is here next with exclusive video. and later, the sexual harassment claims against john conyers. 's we university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble.
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many did gather peacefully but authorities also indicted 200 people and accused six of them in court today, including alexi wood. an american photojournalist facing charges for inciting a riot and destroying property. prosecutors said he was part of the destruction. you're looking at key evidence of that trial. his own facebook coverage of it. his freedom is now on the line. >> howdy, folks. we got ourselves three blocks of black block. all right. some graffiti. >> in court this week, they say
you don't personally have to break a window to be guilty of rioting and the first amendment doesn't protect what they call dangerous conspiracies. they say it was path of destruction throughout the city. joining me, alexi wood and his attorney, brett cohen. you chose to go first and that is why you're in trial this week. why did you want to be the first up? >> had if i can speak for mr. wood. he is looking to get the message that he didn't do anything wrong during this event. >> if you're going to talk for mr. wood, you have to say more than that. >> oh, sure. he is concerned about his, as you describe him as a photo journalist. he is concerned that although people can criticize his ability
to be a journalist, he is concerned about the government doing that and continuing to press the charges. >> what about the response to the idea that at a point, the video, according to prosecutors, went over the line, from reporting or observing and to being a part of what they call felonies. >> those are the allegations that they made. and i believe that the -- you know, to answer that question at this time, while we have an open trial, we're in the second day of trial, i don't really want to go and let the government know throw this program what our defense is going to be. >> i understand that. in fact, the very presence of both of you on the program is highly unusual, because you spent the last two days in court. but what do you want people to know, bret? do you view this as a simple overzealous prosecution of a range of people, or do you view
it and does alexi view it as something that targets the free press or that is a product of the trump era? >> i think that the government is apparently not happy with what happened in d.c. on the day of inauguration. and, as the government expressed in its opening argument, essentially talking about how the witness -- how the victims were affected by what was going on, and really mr. wood did not want to be arrested for what he was doing that was not what he anticipated when he came to d.c. >> and alexi, i know there's a lot you can't say, but what do you want people to know, generally about all of this. >> sure, well, first of all, it's alexei, thank you. second of all, just to call this case that's going on, that it was a mass arrest and that i would say strongly that it's a first amendment issue, not only
just for myself in the freedom of press realm, but in protests in general. >> and do you think this is, as i mentioned, a product of the trump era? >> i don't think mr. wood is qualified to answer that. obviously, this was an incident that occurred before trump -- president trump was inaugurated. so it's hard to point to president trump as being the driving force behind this prosecution. whether he's behind in the carrying on of the prosecution, i can't say. >> and alexei, what has been your experience you can discuss from inside the courtroom. do you think this is going okay? do you think this is fair? are you confident in the outcome? >> honestly, i am confident in the outcome. i feel righteous in my innocence. i live streamed everything. it's there for the entire world to decide.
and it's -- everything is tbd. and we'll see. >> and are you -- this is what i've got to ask you. it's a weird one, but you were out there recording all of this. some people take issues with your methods. are you worried about winding up in jail? >> i don't think he should really be answering that at this time. >> what should you say, bret, about that? i mean, that's the larger context of all of this. is this -- you say, about the timing, is this sending a message, is this chill speech, is there a speech issue for protesters or reporters or would-be reporters out there who might go to the next protest? >> there's something to be said about setting up guidelines as to what reporters can and cannot do. during an event such as this, and i believe that this trial might bring though issues to the forefront. i'm hopeful that the jury will, you know, see it favorably for
my client, but it's going to be up to the jury. and although mr. wood says that it's for the whole world to see, now it's up to the 12 members of the jury. >> well, that is how it works in our system. as i mentioned, i know it is rare for folks to walk out of an ongoing trial and talk in public and i know there's some things you can't get into. so to both of you, mr. cohen and mr. wood, i thank you. >> you're welcome. thank you. >> thank you. >> again, i also want to tell you, a programming note. we have a special show this friday, russia on trial, debating the evidence of collusion. you're going to see arguments inside a mock courtroom in front of live mock jurors debating both sides of the collision question at john jay. up ahead, congressman conyers denying a sexual harassment settlement and denying misconduct. that is next. more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service
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other news tonight, there's a house ethics committee launching a new investigation into america's longest serving congressman, john conyers, hit with sexual misconduct allegations, as well as a wrongful dismissal complaint from 2015. today, he admitted there was a financial settlement with a former staffer, but denies misconduct. the story began in buzz feed, which smoke to a former employee, said she was fired for not succumbing to sexual advances. meanwhile, four ex-staff alleged conyer request for sexual favors, asked staffers to pick up women and bring them to a an apartment. because fooed reporting that conyers did pay $25,000 to
settle and there was an exchange of a confidentiality agreement. another spotlight on a system that congresswoman jackie speier is trying to fix. >> in the last 20 years, there have been 260 settlements at a cost of taxpayers of this country of $15 million. that $15 million has been there to silence victims of all types of workplace discrimination. today, we are here to change that. abusers and sexual predators have thrived in the shadows in our current system where all the power is deliberately taken away from the survivor. >> gag orders can be a long-standing problem in these type of settlements. gretchen carlson stressed that on "the beat" a few weeks ago. >> listen, we've got to change the way in which we approach these kinds of cases and take the blame away from the women. we also have to take away the secrecy of it.
because most of these cases are solved in settlements, where the women cannot speak about what happened to them. or they go into secret arbitration with the prevalence of those clauss and employment contracts. and again, women are silenced. >> the key point there, what gretchen carlson was alleging about at fox news is also what others are alleging about the u.s. congress and the products of both parties, money buying secrecy. we'll have more on that story in the days ahead. "hardball with chris matthews" starts now. trump backs up moore. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in boston. late today, after manner a weor week of silence, president trump weighed in on alabama senate candidate, roy moore. >> i can tell you one