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tv   MSNBC Joy Reid  MSNBC  November 25, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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stay with us or updates and breaking news as it happens. follow me on twitter, instagram and facebook. let me know what you're thinking and what you like to hear about. for now, joy reid is next. you have a great saturday evening. i'm suspecting that because donald trump protected him so much, he knows something really significant. >> i don't think this goes anywhere other than to michael flynn and potentially his son. welcome to "a.m. joy." this thanksgiving yet another signal that special counsel robert mueller's investigation into russia's interference in our presidential election continues to pick up steam. nbc news confirming information first reported by the "new york times" that lawyers for trump's former national security adviser michael flynn cut ties with
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trump's attorneys refusing to share any more in addition about muhl mueller's investigation. separate clients, agreed to cooperate with one another, share information. they can anticipate the prosecutor's case and piece together a common strategy to fight back. lawyers for trump and flynn, along with his son, is under investigation for his foreign business dealings, and his contacts with russian officials, had been doing that up until this week. up until, according to the "times" one reason for the change could be "it is unethical for lawyers to work together when one client is cooperating with prosecutors and another is system under investigation." this news, possible sign of trump's worst nightmare. michael flynn cooperating with mueller's investigation and potentially handing over incriminating evidence against his former boss in the trump campaign. author of "the plot to hack american" journalist and scholar, and msnbc legal analyst and paul, start with you.
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on this question of cooperation. normalizen, senior fellow at the brookings institution sent this tweet out thursday. i negotiated a cooperation deal for a target with mueller's office when u.s. attorney. let me tell you, he's not going to give one to flynn unless he implicates someone up the ladder. that means kushner, don jr. or big daddy. all having ingestion tonight. >> agreements when people are subjects of investigation and want to share information because they think, hey, we're all in this together. except when they're not. so now flynn has been persuaded by either his attorneys or by special counsel mueller that he's got different interests from president trump. so it could mean that he's cooperating with the special counsel, which means he's singing like a canary to try to avoid what literally could be decades of prison time, or it
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could mean he's going to fight this, and in his defense, he will implicate president trump. either way, it's very bad news for donald trump. >> stay with this a second, paul. the "new york times" put a caveat in this story in terms of them cutting ties. some lawyers withdraw from information sharing arrangements soon as they begin negotiating with prosecutors and negotiations fall apart. do you see signs here that flynn could be maybe not all the way prepared to cooperate but trying to negotiate a deal for himself or maybe his son to try to save michael flynn jr. and sort of what would he have to offer prosecutors? offer information that would incriminate donald trump? what would he have to give him for a deal for his son? >> remember, michael flynn was the national security adviser, so that's a very high-level position. he's now got lots of exposure for false statements, for not disclosing he was an agent of foreign governments at the time
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he was working for the trump campaign, and then in the white house. so, again, he has a lot of incentive to try to bring the goods against somebody who's higher up on the chain. which means somebody in the oval office. so it's perfectly right that there's not a done deal now. he's got a lot of pressure, though, to really deliver somebody high up, and, again, that means president trump, somebody in the oval office, or somebody in president trump's family. again, obviously, mule sir -- a guy with integrity, only wants the goods if their true and there is concern sometimes about people who cooperate, when they have a lot of incentive sometimes say stuff that's not true to try to help themselves. this has to proceed carefully. >>s absolutely. go to malcolm. we know from the cast of characters who are involved in the alleged russia, potential russia collusion with the trump
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campaign, michael flynn, start with him. if you go back to, travel back to when jim comey testified in front of the congressional committee and released the memo which shows in his view trump was asking him to end the flynn investigation, to go easy on michael flynn. we have also the stories of donald trump reaching out to michael flynn saying, stay strong. what, in your view, malcolm, having lived this entire situation for over a year, is michael flynn the person who most likely has the answer to whether or not the trump campaign colluded with russia? or is his real jeopardy that he was making money on the side with russia and turkey, et cetera? >> he's got four major issues coming down on him. one, taking money from russia today while still holding a top secret sei security clearance and not saying anything about it nap can lead him to being an unwitting intelligence asset whether being recruited from
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russia. two, taking money from the turks to extradite illegally a u.s. resident to turkey which is kidnapping in federal conspiracy charges. that's bad. three, then there's making that phone call to moscow in december of last year. that is significant, because that could implicate mike pence and donald trump as having ordered him to do that. and he may have lied about it. and finally, he may have been the executive officer of all the dirty tricks campaigns to get the wikileaks information, the information from the russian lawyer, and the information from the podesta leaks and all the rest of those to find hillary clinton's e-mails, which means he's neck deep in all of them. the question is which are the easy ones mueller's going for? i think he's going for russia. sorry. not russia. the turkey and russia payments, because that's documentary. he can get that. finally, it was jay sekulow that
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dropped a hint about flynn's security clearance the other day in saying obama administration cleared him. that leads me to believe it's more than likely the moscow phone call and him possibly, possibly, being an unwitting asset of russian intelligence. very bizarre he would actually blame obama for giving flynn a top secret security clearance. >> absolutely. don't forget sally yates, active attorney general warned the white house he could be subject to blackmail and still took them almost two weeks to get rid of him. move on to door two. jared kushner. come to you sarah on this. recall going back, again, that jared kushner was one of the people who urged donald trump to fire director jim comey. was fbi at the time which wouco be one of the obstruction of justice. and a new piece in "vanity fair" talks about jared kushner being worried. despite confidence in robert
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mueller's probe, expressed worry about how far the investigation would go. do you think they'll get the president? kushner asked a friend according to a person in the conversation. sarah, your view, having reviewed the case and looked at it over a year, do you think jared kushner should be worried about jared kushner and not just the president getting got? . i don't really think it's in jared kushner's nature to be particularly worried about consequences sdins he's essentially delights committing crimes consequence-free. the consequences i'm worried about are for the united states. a problem of nepotism has become a problem of national security. we know kushner is implicated that he lied on clearance forms had hundreds of illicit contacts with foreign officials especially russia he didn't reveal, involved in firing of comey, involved with manafort and the campaign team and transition and basically been implicated at every level. of course, his father-in-law, you know, is the president. this administration has abused
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executive power to overright po protocols that keep people like kushner in check. perhaps more worried in light of manafort's indictment and pending indictments against flynn perhaps. the krups goes very deep and i don't think we should be needlessly optimistic about the direction this is going to go. >> and go to manafort. sarah brought up manafort. go to paul manafort. mcclatchy has a new piece out talking about the fact manafort travelled to russia, actually more extensive than we knew. flight records show deep irkremlin ties than previously known. paul but lir,ler, manafort is ay in legal trouble. would prosecutors have to get manafort on something to do with collusion or could the corruption of his business practices separate from the campaign be enough to force him to flip on donald trump potentially? >> you know, it's all fear of
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games. one hand, plenty of evidence that he's got exposure for something that has nothing to do with russia or the trump campaign. and we've seen that mueller, he goes in. he wouldn't have any problem indicting manafort on all of that stuff to get him to cooperate. but make no mistake. the subject of this investigation is whether the trump campaign conspired with the russians in order to subvert american democracy. if manafort has information about that, that's what's most of interest to special counsel mueller. >> same question to you on that, malcolm, because manafort obviously ran the trump campaign. was brought in late spring, early summer to try to manage the convention process, but at the same time he has separate ties to russia that, and ukraine. do you get the sense that manafort, similar to what i asked about michael flynn. is his exposure that he may have helped to direct russia
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collusion into the campaign or that he's just separately got corruption issues that have to do, sort of tangentially with russia? >> the things we're actually seeing on the surface and the indictments he got are just the pressure points of his past misbehavior. in the ukraine. the point, he had a special skillset to come in here and bring russian-based corruption and dirty operations into campaigns in the ukraine and he was brought into this campaign. and the question is, was he moscow's man? is this an issue of him just being a dirty trickster or being an actual asset of the kremlin? that's a big difference between, you know -- like espionage act sort of stuff there. >> yeah. >> can i make a quick aside for jared kushner i think we've missed on. i read that, that article with great interest. when he made that statement, do you think they'll get the president? coming from an intelligence
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perspective, somebody who's dawn boatload of wiretapping in my time, if i hear that sentence, immediately would indicate to me that he has information that he feels he's the crux of that will lead up the chain of command fap would be a key point for me. why would you make that statement if you didn't already know the answer that you've got it. also, he is flush with dirty contacts, with moscow. related to money. i think he's very afraid he's about to get the manafort treatment and he's going to, because mueller has thrown a circle around foreign capital that may have come from foreign intelligence agencies and influenced these people to do things that were conspiracy against the united states. >> we still haven't gotten an answer to the questions we wanted from the white house about whether or not jared kushner has been discussing some of this financial needs including 666 fifth avenue when jaunting around the world to saudi arabia and other places. love to get an answer to that but the white house -- love to
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get answers asked about a week ago. last question to you, sarah. you've seen this probe go international. there was an arrest of one of putin's favorite oligarchs on tax evasion charges. this was an arrest that took place in france. could the kremlin now perhaps become a little worried that the oligarchs themselves will now be geezed e squeezed in hiding money? hiding money in real estate including trump properties is a think they do? >> to some degree always they're concern. guided the presence in their campaign. the main objectives, make sure there were not sanctions against russia and oligarchs could continue financial activity impeded. they're somewhat concerned but it hasn't stopped them, really from accomplishing their goals throughout the year. i hope the investigation picks up. i hope things move faster, because i don't think we necessarily can handle the repercussions on a national security level of what has been
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done. so it's rough for the oligarchs, a hell of a lot rougher for the people in the united states. so i'm glad that mueller is pressing down and i'm glad as malcolm said, the net is widening and tightening at the same time, sat the same time we are running out of time. i hope that consider that. >> well said. thank you all. and one more note on russiagate. could robert mueller be "times'" person of the yaoer? donald trump claimed on twitter her turned down the magazine they probably would give him. donald trump was quickly corrected about this. who do you think it could be? go to my page on facebook, #am joy, and during the break.
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be sure to follow us on twitter on instagram and snapchat. up next, the people versus roy moore. stay with us. ♪ spread a little love today ♪ spread a little love my-y way ♪ ♪ spread a little something to remember ♪ philadelphia cream cheese. made with fresh milk and real cream makes your recipes their holiday favourites. the holidays are made with philly. their holiday favourites. i just drank tons of water a proall the time, it was never enough. my dentist suggested biotene. my mouth felt more lubricated.
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he totally denies it. he says it didn't happen, and, you know, you have to listen to him, also. you're talking about, he says 40 years ago this did not happen. so, you know -- let me just tell you. roy moore denies it. that's all i can say. he denies it, and by the way he
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totally denies it. >> the women are trump voters. most of them are trump voters. all you can do is, you have to do what you have to do. he totally denies it. >> that was donald trump's answer when asked if electing an accused child molester was better than electing a democrat in next month the u.s. senate race in alabama. and roy moore accused of sexual misconduct with multiple teenagers as a prosecutor in his 30s is risky given the president's own history of sexual assault allegations. wasn't exactly a rah rah endorsement but enough to use for supporters writing, i appreciate donald trump for defending my honor and my character. hmm. joining me now, my panel. start with you. at table, evan. the current polling, polling has been all over the place. a wbrc strategy research poll dated november 20th, just before thanksgiving. moore at 47%.
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jones at 45%. how on earth is a man accused serially potentially being a child molester up in any poll? >> tribalism. a narrative, us against them. if you don't like a certain piece of news even though it's factual, you can ignore it because it's fake news and much more news is based upon opinion than actual facts in this world. at the same time, i think there are people who say, well, there's -- making moral justification saying it's better to have roy moore who will vote the way we vote, brooks said that about two weeks ago, than having doug jones in there. i don't like doug jones' policy but he's far better than roy moore is. same time you have a poll from jmc analytics came out two weeks ago saying 29% of voters are more likely to vote for roy moore because of the allegations showing the moral rot within the republican party going out saying, we are the party of family values and morality when
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we're defending a man accused of horrible, disgraceful behavior. it makes a lot of people have a second look and say, why do we want to be a part of the republican party? >> and you have the enforcer -- isn't really good at elections in politics still has the president dancing on a string. your old friend steve bannon. him talking ob his radio show friday about that race. take a listen. >> i think what the president said, all 40 years old. all allegations. let you people of alabama decide. like he said. i'm a big believer, let the folks in alabama decide. very straightforward and the president showed huge courage in the face of withering criticism. >> i agree. >> by the pundit class. i think it's great. >> marlow, editor of breitbart news. it's courageous to stand up for
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a child, accused child molester. that is where the far right of the republican party is right now. how mainstream is that view, in your opinion? >> i think that if it's really not that main it strestream. a number of republicans who have spoken out against roy moore, don't want him's in congress and floated the idea expelling him if seated. again, it's a concentrated group of republican people who really actually masquerade as republicans even though they'd really not. don't stand for anything. have no moral compass, not guided by any ideological issue or perspective much like the president. they go wherever they think they can go. they exist to agitate, distract, disrupt and what bannon is doing, classic vintage bannon. whenever the establishment is, i don't want to be. doesn't matter the issue or topic. it's a matter, i don't want to do anything that aligns me with
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mitch mcconnell, paul ryan or establishment republicans and does the exact opposite to be contrary to that. that's what president trump does as well. they do the exact opposite almost just to spite everybody else. >> it's interesting. they don't do it when it um cans to things like cutting taxes for corporations or for a policy that harms the poor. they're not contrary to the establishment when it comes to things that hurt poor people or women or gay people or people of color. they're right with you. fine with it. interesting they're only against them on things it like whether or not to defend a child molester. listen to another recipient of mercer's money. kellyanne conway. she is now working for the white house. here she is on fox news on monday talking about the alabama senate race. >> doug jones in alabama, folks, don't be fooled. he'll be a vote against tax cuts. he's weak on crime, weak on borders. he's strong on raising your
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taxes. he's terrible for property owners. >> so vote roy moore? >> and he's not saying anything and why the media are trying to boost him. >> so vote roy moore? >> i'm telling you, we want the votes in the senate to get this tax, this tax bill through. >> you have vote roy moore. and the idea the guy who prosecuted two of the klansmen, blew's the baptist street church and killed four little kids, pretty breathtaking. >> and to quote donald trump who i never quote, there's a special place in hell for mothers who defend accused child molesters. that would be kellyanne conway. i have no words to describe how really atrocious, how despicable this is. i do want to differ with kurt, in that he see as noxious branch of the republican party as a segment. i think that is the republican party, unfortunately. you can't pass them off as a fringe group when it's the
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president of the united states, everybody in the white house, head of the rnc, vice president of the united states, go down the line, and face it. the party has already embraced someone who has been serially accused 6 sexual assault. that's the president. that's paul ryan. that's mitch mcconnell. that's everybody. so, listen, to make this distinction somehow there are good republicans on this issue and bad republicans. this is the horror of donald trump which he is as infested and deformed an entire national political party and they're rotten to the core now. the whole lot of them. >> and isn't that the case? the bannon wing owns the party now. they've taken over, ideologically, paul ryan runs behind the president, like a fan. they're all in lock step. how can you make a distinction? >> i don't disagree with that, jennifer, at all. no one's been vocal about the rotting core of steve bannon. why i barely consider myself republican at this point and spend over --
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>> you like the weather out here. come on out, kurt! >> i was speaking to more directly the issue defending a child sex predator. a lot of people who are republicans very quick to speak out against that. that's not to say what other the other issues that came out, the other things donald trump has done while they have sat compliantly silent as he's rush-of-run roughshod over the party. everyone says clapping like a bunch of seals. disturbs me. incredibly troubling and terrible for this country. but on the issue of specifically talking about whether you defend roy moore or not. a lot of people in republican leadership position whose have spoken out about that. >> nobody listened to them, and if people, or if they were influential within the party you would see roy moore's support completely erode in alabama. >> there's a -- >> that's a big problem. the two thing ice worry about now, one, accused of having a war on women. this perpetuates is it, and,
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two, a lot of alabama voters who are on the fence and look at the allegations against al franken, wholly separate and see democrats sticking by him. to them that's a signal they can stick by roy moore. democrats no ed to come out harder against al franken and that would actually help doug jones in the long run. >> hold on a second. >> there is absolutely no symmetry between what al franken -- >> no -- >> no. al franken is not a child mol t molester. that's part of the problem. what aboutism among republicans trying to put them in the same sentence is part of the reason the party has no credibility here. >> i agree. there is no similarities between the two different accusations. >> they don't belong in the same sentence. not the same in any character at all. >> but what i'm talking about is how people view it. i i don't agree they're the same. >> that's insane. there's literally nothing in kmong. >> and democrats defended al franken to the controversy.
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legal advocacy groups called for him to resign. and investigation pending. i haven't seen nancy pelosi come out and say al franken's a good guy. >> the idea al franken, there is any symmetry whatsoever. these guys are going to serve with roy moore if he wins and say about lsolutely about zussu. my little -- not going to be back. not kicking them out. happy thanksgiving. coming up, trump and tiger are raising eyebrows. it's saturday. i'll toell you why, next. attention: are you eligible for medicare?
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it's almost been a year since donald trump was sworn in as president. yet he continues to flirt with violating the emoluments clause. why that's a problem. more after the break. ♪
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. you know what? if i were in the white house, i don't any i'd ever see doral again. i owned that in miami. i don't think i'll see many of places i -- i don't think i'll see anything. i just want to stay in the white house and work my ass and make great deals. who's going to leave? >> so much for that. donald trump spent at least 80 days at the golf courses. hitting the links, after turkey call, heading over to golf jupiter to play golf quickly with tiger woods and dustin
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johnson. this is not the first time. a trump property in dubai recently hiring a construction company owned by the chinese government, which could trump in violation against in violation of the emoluments clause. author of "it's worse than you think what the trump administration is doing to america." and ethics president for george w. bush. and the idea the president of the united states and golfing with tiger woods, designing golf courses together and promoting playing golf with tiger woods. how flagrant does this e eemolument clauses need to be before someone in washington notices? >> the most serious don't involve the golf courses but the financing he's getting from foreign governments. foreign government owned banks, must undisclosed. may be in debt for hundreds of
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millions of dollars to foreign nationals, some may be connected to foreign governments, and none of this is disclosed because the congress doesn't insist that it be disclosed. there's sheer hypocrisy here and the golf thing is symbolic. here's a man who criticized president obama for playing a few rounds of golf every now and then and since this president has started he's been doing nothing but golfing on his own courses trying to promote his businesses and his sons flying all over the world promoting his businesses to foreign nationals including foreign governments. this has to stop. it's not going to stop until congress takes seriously its oversight duties and they're not going it, because they also are hypocritical. they just want to cover themselves and cover for the president. >> it's rest interesting, david k. johnson. the united states goes around the world, lecturing people about democracy and how to do it. if you had a country in which you had resorts named after the
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leader of that country and golf courses named after the leader of that country and then professional golf association was playing golf on the linkses that are named after the president of that countr plaste everywhere you goad go and foreign governments could stay at their hotels and swipe cards and pay him money, would we consider that country to be a typical northwestern democracy or questions whether or not it is essentially an open p platocracy. >> richard is right. congress has an absolute duty to reform the laws to allow trump not to fully disclose what's going on with his finances. the decades of money laundering, reliance on money from foreign governments and using his position to promote his businesses. and the lawlessness of this administration you see all the tile. you just had kellyanne conway on
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endorsing a candidate. well, violating the hatch act when she did that and donald trump continues to use his office to enrich his family. now, that's not the principle reason he ran for president. donald ran because he believes, of course, he should be president. he's superior to the rest of us, should be in charge of the whole world as he told prime minister turnbull. he's the greatest person in the world, but once in office, there are no moral boundaries to this man. so he will do everything he can to deepen his family's pockets, even when it involves improper relationships for a president who's foreign governments, foreign banks, foreign powers and foreign individuals. >> richard, the thing that's happening with trump is sort of two pieces. one hand, feels like his presidency is so toxic it's tainting his brand on one side and on the other, still to david k. johnson's point seeming to make money, whether fees at mar-a-lago or at his hotel in new york. the trump organization is going to exit its deal with the soho.
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trump soho hotel in new york, struggling. got high vacancy rates. trump doesn't ownit. a licensing deal. his name will come off that hotel. forbes dropped trump down on its list of richest americans. estimating worth $3.1 billion down froms 3ds.7 billion. from 248 to 156. very important to trump to be on that list that he's going down and part of the reason for that is because a lot of his properties are struggling. the government courses in new york are struggling. put it up for my team. golf courses in a lot of places are struggling. a lot of his hotels are struggling. a project in mississippi they were going to open sort of a lower scale hotel sort of scuttled. the one property that's making a lot of money is the hotel in d.c. in the former old post office building and literally filled with lobbyists and foreign
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government officials who are paying to stay there. how is just not that hotel in and of itself, ho you can that be legal? >> well, it's not. it's illegal under the emoluments part of the constituti constitution. why he's been sued over this. clearly illegal and i emphasize the bill money is the financing. foreign sovereign wealth funds, projects that aren't doing so well to embrace themselves with the president. exactly what the founders intended to prohibit under the emoluments clause. back to congress. they have an oversight duty and aren't doing anything. we have to take a good, hard look in congress in 2018. they're a bunch of hypocrites. the way they're pushing this sexual harassment thing. who's calling kellyanne conway to the house? probably most white guys harassing her, she claimed in 2016.
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oh, they don't want to investigate that? bottom line, hypocrites covering for themselves. i've been a republican 30 years and will not support people who will cover for a president who is violating the constitution and applying a double standard to their own members of congress. it's unacceptable. >> david, sort of a lack of -- obviously doesn't fear congress. aren't doing anything about it. no twlaeft so ever, plain as the nose on your face. read it in the constitution. emoluments clause right there, just put it up and i have friends from florida calling me, a mega yacht holed up in palm beach. was he hanging out at mar-a-lago? we don't know who's paying the $200,000 fees to be members of his private club. i wonder if in your view knowing donald trump as long as you have, does he have any fear there to be any chickens that come home to roost from all this? appears to be him profiting ultimately off the presidency and consorting with russian
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oligarchs while under investigation for possible collusion with russia? >> donald would have some fear about this but has been masterful in pushing away law enforcement. he outdid four federal grand jury investigations. committed income tax fraud and had two civil, not crim na trials over ter that he lost. admitted to sales tax fraud and been found have engaged in a conspiracy to cheat workers out of their money, but donald has been very, very successful over the years at out-witting law enforcement and his friend here, weak disclosure laws. we need to thoroughly revamp our campaign finance and personal disclosure laws. trump has's not had to make an hon effort accounting of what he's doing. when forbes magazine says worth $4.3 billion. even trump doesn't own that. $1.4 billion. take the $50 million double them, don't get to $2 billion. i think those numbers are highly
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inflated. he has lots of cash flow. doesn't have lots of uncumbered assets. i hope mueller gets us a proper net worth statement on donald trump, because i think it will shock people when they discover how deeply he's involved with foreign money. >> one of the things donald trump's presidency or election has shown is that a lot of us assumed that showing your tax returns as president of the united states was a law. it's not. just a tradition. maybe that's something congress could look into if we had a congress interested in stuff like that. thank you both. up next, trump uses the tragedy in egypt to double down on his call for a wall and a muslim ban. makes no sense at all. up next, more "a.m. joy." ♪
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while egypt was reeling from the mosque attack called the deadliest terror attack in modern history, donald trump was using the incident to advance radical ideas on his agenda. tweeting, calling the president of egypt to discuss the terrorist attack with so much loss of life. have to get tougher and smarter than ever before and will need the wall. we need the ban. god bless the people of egypt. downing me, legal analyst paul
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butler and contributing writer from a magazine. what is the thread if you can extrapolate and even guess between what happened in egypt and building a wall and banningu could extrapolate for us and even guess between what happened in egypt and building a wall and banning muslims from -- and banning muslims from the united states? >> there's absolutely no connection, and i think trump is genuinely confused. it's sad, but not surprising that our president, after the worst attack in egyptian modern history would waste no time to soak anti-muslim sentiment, stoke islamo phobia. it goes to demonstrate that muslims are terrorists greatest victims, we are murdered on a daily basis and for years. it's clear that trump not only doesn't understand that, but he doesn't get that nobody hates isis more than muslims. >> the interesting thing about
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it, donald trump doesn't seem to have learned that whenever he weighs in on anything to do with his muslim ban, it actually takes his chances in court of getting it to stand up, because it makes it clear that he just wants to ban muslims from the united states. why does he not seem to get that? >> so he's already building a wall and banning folks in a symbolic way. so this week, he excluded tens of thousands of haitians from the united states who was dispossessed by the earthquake. he's gone back and forth under the d.r.e.a.m.ers. that's within his executive power. that's not legal is to exclude people on the basis of their faith, which is why the lawyers keep saying in their pleadings, it's not a ban, it's not a ban. but as you note, joy, these tweets make it clear that the president's intent is to exclude muslims from entering the united states and as several courts have made clear, that's unconstitutional. his tweets make it transparent. they're smoking gun evidence of
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his discriminatory intent. >> it's interesting. just as a political matter, if you want to look at the raw politics of it, i can think back on the george w. bush era, where arab communities were a swing community, some leaning republican and some democrat. it was up for grabs. donald trump has seemed to go out of his way to be kprextravat in his disdain for muslims. did it surprise you that he paired that with what he was portraying as sympathy for the people of egypt? >> it didn't surprise me at all. what's sad about donald trump's tweets, it's taking away focus from the attack in egypt. if you look at the details of this attack, it was heinous. it happened against a branch of islam, the sufis, that was a community that was attacked. they were praying in this mosque. they are the most peaceful and loving, it's a mystical sect of
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islam. their religion is all about just like islam is, but they focus on love and poetry. if you know the words of the great sufi poet roamy, you'll know who they are. but it was such a violent crime on a peaceful community and i have no idea, and neither does trump either, how a racist ban and a dumb wall is going to help fight isis in the middle east. >> i think people don't zero in enough on the fact that part of what isis, a lot of what they do is accuse other muslims of not being in their view, the right kind of muslim and attacking them all over the world. >> exactly. >> we are literally their greatest victims. 90% of terrorism victims are muslims. and it also goes to show that we're not a monolith. it's like women, we're not all the same. there's 1.6 billion muslims in the world. and just like in america and in christianity and other
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religions, there's a very extreme sect. and really a lot of muslims don't even consider isis to be a part of islam. they're just violent and they kill indiscriminately and muslims are some of their greatest victims. so how is a wall with mexico going to help fight isis? and egypt is not even on trump's racist dumb plan to have this travel ban. that's never going to work. >> just the same way that christians disown people who claim to be christians but are extremists. the kkk claims to be christian. paul, i wonder if you can anticipate for us, there will be more lawsuits over the muslim ban. i presume there will be lawsuits at some point over donald trump's idea to build a wall, because there are issues about taking land to build it, et cetera. could his tweets be used by the plaintiffs in cases like that? >> yeah, they already have. we've seen judges, including the judge in hawaii, credit his tweet. so the difficult thing about bringing these cases, you have
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to prove that there's some intent to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion. and again, as much as the lawyers try to fix it up, the tweets are transparent. it's clear that what the president wants to do is to ban muslims. period. and again, that is unconstitutional. >> yeah, and on the wall, one more point to you on this, it does seem that donald trump is using this transparently, because he knows his base wants those two things equally, they want this wall and they want the muslim ban. but is there any evidence in your view that people who are connected to isis are streaming over the southern border, going to mexico as a way to get into the united states and are coming that way into the u.s.? >> no. and it's not the west against isis. it's all of us against isis.
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we must all be united. it's not muslims against isis. it's all of us. >> yeah. >> and that's what we should focus on. >> well said. thank you both very much. keep it right here on msnbc. a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town... well, your town. that's why american express is proud to be the founding partner of small business saturday. a day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. so, today get up, get out, and shop small. for over 100 yearsaking like kraft has,al cheese you learn a lot about people's tastes. honey, what do you want for dinner tonight? oh whatever you're making. triple cheddar stuffed sliders. sold! essential for vinyl, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once daily pill
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happy friday. still full? welcome to a special edition of the rachel maddow show tonight. a few days after the presidential election in 2016, something quite unexpected happened. planned parenthood started getting a flood of donations from mike pence, from all over the country, mike pence was donating, the new vice president elect. once it became clear that republicans would soon control the white house in both chambers of congress, americans felt an urge to donate to civil rights and reproductive health organizations like the aclu and planned parenthood and when people started donating to planned parenthood in particular, a good number of them did so

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