tv MSNBC Live MSNBC November 26, 2017 1:00pm-2:00pm PST
well, that does it for me. i'm richard lui. thanks for being with us the last couple of hours. the news continues right now with yasmin vassoughian. >> i'm yasmin vassoughian, everybody. breaking his silence. minnesota senator al franken speaking out for the first time after being accused of groping several women. and stepping aside, john conyers steps down as the top democrat in the house judiciary committee, following allegations that he sexually harassed four more aides. all of this as president trump continues to back roy moore by going after his opponent on twitter. will it help moore win the crucial senate seat in alabama? that's all coming up. let's get started, everybody. >> john conyers is now stepping down as the ranking democrat on the house judiciary committee. >> imagine having a slush fund where nobody has to know what the settlements are.
that's outrageous. >> you said there's now zero tolerance. >> yes, yes. >> john conyers, what's that mean for him right now? in or out? >> we are strengthened by due process. >> i think it's pretty clear that judge moore is not going to step down. >> if you were a voter in alabama, what would you do? >> i would probably vote for a republican, but it wouldn't be roy moore. >> he is going to need a conservative in his back pocket, and he believes that roy moore will be that person for him. >> we're at a moment in our country's history where there is an attention to the personal behavior of powerful men and that might turn this election, we just don't know. >> these recent stories that have come forward have come forward in torrents and, you know, 35 victims of bill cosby, dozens of all of these people. >> this behavior goes on all the time. it has for a long time, unfortunately. >> i can't say that i was entirely surprised with the "me too" allegations. >> all right. a lot happening today. we start in minnesota, where after eight days of silence, senator al franken is speaking to local press, addressing his next steps after four different women shared accusations of
sexual harassment. take a listen. >> if you had said to me two weeks ago that a woman was going to say that i had made her uncomfortable and disrespected her in one of these ways, i would have said no. this has been a shock to me. >> and new developments today surrounding the sexual harassment allegations against congressman john conyers. the democrat has stepped down as ranking member of the house judiciary committee, while the allegations against him are investigated. conyers says, quote, i cannot in good conscious allow these charges to undermine my colleagues. i am grateful to my colleagues who have called for due process before weighing judgment. house minority tleeleader nancy pelosi also called for due process on "meet the press" earlier today. >> we are strengthened by due process. just because someone is accused, and was it one accusation? is it two? i think there has to be.
john conyers is an icon in our country. as john arrives his case, which he knows, which i don't, i believe he will -- >> why don't you? how is it -- >> excuse me, may i finish my sentence? >> sure, sure. >> that he will do the right thing. >> pelosi responded to conyers' decision to step down from the committee saying zero tolerance means consequences. joining me now is leann caldwell. good to talk to you this afternoon. franken says he's going to return to work tomorrow after the break. what more are you learning about that? >> yeah, this will be the first time that we'll see al franken on capitol hill since these allegations came out about ten days ago. he missed those final votes before they left for thanksgiving break, because of this bombshell news. as you said, he spoke to local press today, so tomorrow will be the first time that he will have to face national press. he's usually mostly shy around national reporters. doesn't mostly take their questions. but there'll be a test tomorrow for him to answer some of these
questions. so he can talk to us. we do know that he, himself, has called for an ethics committee investigation on to his actions and so have republicans and democrats. and so we'll see if that moves forward. we've gotten in confirmation that is officially open yet, but that could come as early as this week. >> i would imagine, certainly going to be an uncomfortable homecoming, for sure, after everything that has taken place over the last eight days or so. let's also talk about conyers stepping aside with the house judiciary committee there. what do you think is leading to his decision? what are you hearing? >> well, house speaker -- or leader nancy pelosi today on "meet the press," she had a very tough interview where she essentially defended john conyers and then she grew very frustrated that our colleague, chuck todd, didn't get to any questions about tax reform, which is what she wanted to be talking about, not long after john conyers came out with his statement, saying that he was going to step down from this high-profile position, as top democrat on the judiciary committee, i'm told from a top
democratic aide who's familiar with conversations that this was not a rash decision that happened after this "meet the press" interview, but, in fact, it was pelosi and the congressional black caucus working for the past few days on deciding the right and appropriate time for conyers to step aside from his committee, gracefully. and so, this is -- for both -- on republicans -- for democrats in the house and the senate, as far as conyers and franken is concerned, this at least gives them some leeway. they don't have to answer anymore immediate questions, as there's been a little bit of resolution and action moving forward in both of these cases, yasmin. >> all right. nbc's lee ann caldwell for us. thank you. i want to bring in my panel, claire atkin, claire desoto, and former prosecutor, elise jordan, a lot of titles there, ladies.
i appreciate that. thaengs for joining me this afternoon. let's start with al franken. i want to take a little bit more of a listen to his npr interview and then we'll talk. >> well, first of all, i just want to say that this whole thing has been, you know, embarrassing and, you know -- and it's been difficult. but part of that is that i want to respect a woman's experience. very often, there are these kinds of things and allegations and -- that i believe that women should be respected and listened to. this is what i'm doing. i'm taking responsibility. i've apologized. >> elise, i'm going to start with you since you're not at the desk. you get your first shot at this. do you buy it? >> i personally find this
pattern with al franken to be incredibly disturbing, just that a simple apology is supposed to absolve everything and we should be just moving on after the basic apology. it's a really sad depiction and, you know, very telling of our times that most men don't even apologize and so, we're giving senator franken so many bonus points for actually accepting responsibility. but -- i think that he's damaging to the party. and i think that he should resign, but i do not think that democrats will have the political will to do that. >> karen, do you think he should resign? >> well, i think that there should be a proper investigation, but it's interesting -- >> you're sounding a little bit like pelosi this afternoon by saying that. >> well, first of all, this needs to be nonpartisan. actually, i think the bigger problem is that we need more women in congress and maybe less of this will happen. obviously, he needs to tell his side of the story.
of course, he needs to tell his side of the story. but the problem is, if a person is truly a predator, this boys will be boys attitude needs to end. so, yes, i do agree that just making a simple apology is not enough. there kneads to be action, but i'm sure that he's not the some one on capitol hill. stories have been rolling off capitol hill for many, many years. what do we do about it? certainly, we've been hearing what the problem is, right? discretionary funds being used to settle sexual harassment cases. what's disturbing in his case is that that was actual sexual contact. his hands were actually on somebody's breasts. >> yeah. >> so that's sexual contact. that's actually a crime. >> well, how does an ethics investigation go for him? >> well, for him, well, he's called for his own ethics investigation. so they're going to start, of course, talking to him, talking to his employees, talking to other people who have complained, trying to gather information, whether this is a pattern and practice and whether he's done it before. and whether he's made sexual contact with other women. obviously, "saturday night
live," the women who have worked with him in the past have come out. but again, you can't judge one bad act by saying, well, i was good on 50 other occasions, so this one act doesn't count. that's another problem with sexual harassment and sexual assault. >> yeah. meanwhile, while all of this is happening, claire, we have 65 women who have come forward to issue a statement in support of the senator, saying, quote, during this time in the senate, he has been a steadfast supporter of women's rights. while we are disappointed by these allegations, we appreciate that he has apologized and are committed to regaining the trust of minnesotans. do you think this moves the needle? these 65 women coming out in support of him? >> i think it speaks to the conflict that nancy pelosi expressed on "meet the press" today. that on the one hand she's saying, we should have zero tolerance and on the other hand, he's saying, let's see due process and allegations don't necessarily issue a crime. and i think what these guys have in common is this thing where harvey weinstein went to the women's march, nancy pelosi says that john conyers was a big
supporter of legislation preventing violence against women. and so you see this kind of even in the men themselves, there's this kind of dual situation where they're supporting women, but these allegations of treating women very poorly. but i think you have john conyers, he's 88 years old, and we're in a new day right now, and we're in a situation where what was acceptable back in september is a firing offense right now. and just to speak to the issue of zero tolerance, what we're seeing on capitol hill versus what we're seeing in the media, if you're accused, as charlie rose was, he instantly lost his job. and we're seeing that time and time again in the media business has zero tolerance -- >> and what i'm hearing from a lot of people online, this is not about politics. this is not about being republican or democrat. if you've done this, you need to sort of take responsibility for it and step down. and you bring up conyers. and elise, i'm going to go to you on this, but is he doing enough?
does he need to step down altogether? >> i absolutely think that john conyers should be gone. there's no question in my mind that the allegations against him are very credible. >> 50 years in any job is too long, i think. it's a good argument for term limits in there. 50 years, the people of michigan have been electing him and electing him. and maybe the concentration and power and super pac money is a little bit too much. 50 years is a long time. there are many people in that state that can step forward. >> i think monday is going to be a tense time on the hill to say the least. thank you all for joining me. me too, assist ralit's a ral for victims of sexual harassment and assault. later, we'll have the founder of the movement and why so many are now coming forward with their stories. but first, a report by the associated press reveals that the fbi knew for at least a year who russian hackers were targeting. so why did they not say anything? that conversation is coming up next. you owned your car for four years.
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let me just be very clear. at no point during my tenure at the dnc was i contacted by the fbi, dhs, or any government agency, or alerted or made aware that they believe that the russians, an enemy state, was intruding on our network. >> the dnc was not the only one targeted by russian hackers. according to a new report by the associated press, the fbi failed to warn dozens of former and
current u.s. officials that they were potential victims, despite having evidence for at least a year. for more on this, i'm joined by nbc's justice and security analyst, matthew miller, and daniel hoffman, a former station chief who also served in moscow for five years. mathews, i'll start with you. the fbi responding to that report, to the ap report, saying the fbi routinely notifies individuals and organizations of a potential threat of information. but why would the fbi not warn officials that the russians were trying to hack their personal e-mails? >> you know, sometimes there are legitimate reasons the fbi might take that step to not warn people. for example, if doing so will potentially compromise an ongoing investigation, they might delay notification until they can take that step without jeopardizing the investigation. but that doesn't seem like it's what happened here. it seems to me that they really just kind of fumbled the ball. they were disorganized. if you look at the people who were the targets of russian hacking here, they're former generals, former national security officials, people who
in no way would compromise the investigation by having that information. and it seems that even today, you know, a year, in some cases, a year and a half after these attempted hacks, these officials still haven't been notified and didn't know until the ap called them. it seemed like the fbi just completely messed this one up. >> david, do you think this was a fumble? >> i would highlight one thing, for sure, that our cyberspace has been under siege for the past few years. and we've seen our social networking and media sites also challenged with performing forensics in a timely manner. and in this case, i think perhaps the fbi was overwhelmed by the amount of work, maybe they wanted to complete the investigation before they started to inform those who had been targeted. but absent an official statement from the fbi, we really can't be sure. what i would highlight is even though we would presume that folks' g-mail accounts are used for unclassified correspondence,
that doesn't mean it's not unimportant to the russians. and in this case, we saw the russian gru likely behind the military intelligence likely behind these attempts to hack into people's g-mail accounts. >> right. they could be gathering personal information there through those g-mail accounts they could then use as leverage with these u.s. officials. obviously, sort of the m.o. of the russians. that's for sure. daniel, let's talk about putin and trump's phone call. they actually spoke last week after having been on the sidelines of the apex summit in vietnam to discuss, of course, de-esquelation in syria, afghanistan, ukraine, and obviously, north korea. putin had just met with bashar al assad, also leaders from iran and turkey, as well. is this evaluating putin's positioning in the world? is the u.s. becoming more, sort of, the outlier nation, when you see a situation where putin is sort of bringing these countries together to figure out a situation with syria? >> well, certainly, it's evidence of putin's success in
syria. when he decided to intervene militarily in 2015, he really turned the tide of the civil war and assad's favor. i think he's made a bargain with a middle east autocrat, who's responsible for a gross humanitarian catastrophe, he's created a petri dish breeding ground of sue znni and shia extremism in the country. but that's what russia has chose to do. they've aligned themselves with iran and hezbollah. i really don't see much in the way of partnership with assad, of any value to the united states. there may be other things we could do with russia, but i don't think syria is an area we really would find very fruitful for collaboration. >> so, matthew, let's go with that. we have trump saying he wants to help out with syria and having a phone call with putin with regards to syria. how is it that the u.s. could feasibly trust putin in any of this? >> well, i don't think we should trust putin. i don't think most americans or
most national security officials trust putin, but unfortunately, that is not the stance of the president of the united states. he, of course, continues to take the president's word for the fact -- president putin's word that he didn't interview in the us election, when, in fact, we know from our own intelligence community that they did. i think the bigger problem here is that the president has largely seated america's role in global leadership. and it's not just with respect to syria. it's also by withdrawing from the paris climate accords, by threatening the iran deal. this is a president who has taken a step back on a global stage, and that leaves room for others, including vladimir putin, to step up. >> and daniel, this is what putin wanted, really. this is exactly where he wanted to be. >> yeah, we've seen over the past two decades, resurgent russia, that putin has been very aggressive, certainly in the middle east, in south asia, by arming the taliban, in our own backyard in latin america. he's on center stage right now and it's of great value to him, for sure.
>> daniel, there was a business insider article written about two days ago, and it suggests that a u.s. intel official warned israelis that putin had, quote, leverages of pressure on president trump. do you buy this? and what does this mean? >> i read that, as well. and i'm at a loss to explain it. i mean, it's just so out of the norm for something that any intelligence official would ever discuss with a foreign lnz partner. we just wouldn't do that. so, i guess we just need to hear more about, you know, what was said. i would like to hear about maybe who the person was, but i found the whole report quite odd and ? do you have any sort of insight on it at all? >> you know, if you watch president trump's behavior over the last year and a half, he is rude and belligerent and belittling of just about anyone he comes in contact, with one exception. and that's vladimir putin, who he has been deferential to
throughout the campaign and his time in office. we don't know why that is. it might be because putin praises him and flatters him and, you know, it helps with his ego. it might be because he has some compromising information on him, which has been alleged in other settings, as well. we don't know, but it has been extremely peculiar how trump continues to defer to vladimir putin every time he meets him, heifer time he talks about him. >> well, it's certainly a startling piece to say for sure. if you have the opportunity, you should definitely read it. but hearing from you, daniel, that this isn't something that happens between a u.s. intelligence official and the israelis is obviously sympathetic to take note of, as well. matthew miller, daniel hoffman, thank you both for joining me. appreciate it. by the way, next hour, more on the attack in egypt that killed hundreds of people. a lot to discuss there. also, president trump is using it to renew his call for a border wall and a tougher travel ban, but is this the right time to push that exact agenda? but first, the rift among republicans. can the gop put their differences aside to pull off a
much-needed win with tax reform before the end of the year. a lot on the docket. all that coming up. give ancestrydna for just $59- the lowest price of the year. it's the only dna test that can trace your origins to over 150 ethnic regions- and open up a world of possibilities. save 40% at ancestrydna.com.
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florida, where the president has been spending his thanksgiving holiday for the last couple of days or so. of course, the president on this sunday evening heading back to the white house from washington, d.c., to get started on tax reform. and a lot of other stuff that he has to deal with in the next coming days leading up to the christmas holiday. so with that, as we take a look at these live pictures, let's turn now to what we're talking about. the republicans are going to return from thanksgiving break, as well, with a full agenda. and not a lot of time to get it done. first up, trump meets with congressional leaders this tuesday to review year-end legislative deadlines. the president and the gop are hoping to pass an overhaul of the tax code and the necessary spending bill needed to avert a december 8th government shutdown. the fate of that tax bill is in the hands of about seven republican senators, who have either opposed the plan or who remain undecided. joining me now are jeff mason, seema meta, political reporter with the "los angeles times," and laura bassett, senior political reporter at huffpo.
welcome to all of you. what is trump's agenda with congressional members this week? >> i think they're talking about what you just introduced, that tax bill, it has moved into the hands of the senate and republicans are eager to pick up from where the house left off with their own bill. and talk about strategy, talk about some of the details and talk about what happens next. you're right, there are a ha handful of senators who will determine the future of that bill, and president trump will no doubt weigh in on how to move it forward and how to get those particular senators to back it. >> seema, senator ron johnson was the first to take sort of a firm stand against the republican tax reform bill, but six other gop senators have cited issues with the plan, as well. and have not yet promised to vote for it. does this bill have a chance, do you think? >> i think it does. they're going to be under incredible pressure from both the president and their cla colleagues. they haven't had a big legislative accomplishment this
year. there's really a lot of pressure to get something done before the end of the year. and this tax reform bill, i think there are some concerns about the amount of debt it would add and some others issue. but the house has already passed a version and the president said he would like to sign this by christmas to give the american taxpayers a christmas present. so i think they're going to be under enormous pressure to go along. >> laura, the president's endorsement of roy moore in alabama has been incredibly controversial. and one of the theories that's being put out there is that obviously the republicans and gop don't necessarily want to lose that seat. and on top of that, it's about the tax bill. and they can't -- they can't stand to lose a vote. do they need roy moore? >> i think they do. it's already really tough for them. they only have a two-seat majority in the senate. and when you're trying to pass something like the tax bill, as we saw where they failed to repeal and replace obamacare, and it's because you're trying to get people from entirely different wings of the party to vote on the same bill. i mean, how is susan collins supposed to vote is on the same bill as rand paul and ted cruz?
collins votes with democrats half the time. rand paul is basically off in rand paul land. he should have his own party. i think it's really difficult for them to get things done, which is why they haven't gotten anything done. and if they lose a senate seat, they're down to a one-seat majority and it would make it nearly impossible to do anything. >> let's talk about, laura, i'm going to stick with you on this one, this splintering of the gop here. what they've kind of called a civil war that's happening inside the republican party. some candidates are shunning mcconnell and actually seeking the endorsement of guys like steve bannon, but steve bannon in particular, who doesn't even hold public office here. how is this going to affect the 2018 midterms? >> the republican party looks like a big failure right now. by this point in obama's first year in office, the house and the senate had passed obamacare. he had done health reform in his first year, so if they're not a i believe to get a tax bill done by christmas, it's a huge embarrassment to them. it's already embarrassing that every single one of them including trump campaigned on repealing and replacing obamacare and they failed more than one time to do that. so i think the wrath is falling
on mcconnell here. and historically, if you look at mudd term elections, it always swings in the other direction. so the democrats have a huge advantage already in 2018. trump is a doeeply unpopular president. so anyone who goes with the establishment is going to feel voters' wrath. >> so where does the relationship stand between mcconnell and the white house? because they both need each other to get anything done in the coming week. >> it's a good question. i think that relationship is solid, but president trump -- >> can we replay the way jeff just said that. solid. okay. >> i think president donald trump needs mitch mcconnell, so he works with him and the white house works with him, but he's also very clearly been willing to throw him under the bus or be critical of him, when he does something or fails to do something that the white house wants to get done. so mitch mcconnell is more inclined to kind of play that down and be a workhorse and continue to work on things. but the truth is, his record
hasn't been great. it is important to note, though, that the context of this first year of president trump's term compared to the first year of obama's term, there are a lot -- i think that president obama in the beginning of 2009 had 60 seats or so in the senate and of course, mitch mcconnell does not have that many. and it's much tighter, which is why every single seat is important, every single voice in that republican caucus matters. >> so, seema, on top of daca, on top of tax reform, on top of everything else that we've been talking about, there is sort of this looming thing, as well, which is a possible government shutdown. do you think that's going to happen? >> i don't think so. i think they will actually pull it together. and also, just to add on the mitch mcconnell front, i think one of the things that -- for eight years, republican voters were really angry at president obama. they don't have anybody -- >> to be angry at. >> they don't have anybody to be angry at, so now they're angry at the establishment for not getting anything done. >> i think people in washington will always find somebody to be
angry. sorry, did i cut you off? keep going. >> no, just now i think the anger is focused on the establishment, the swamp quote/unquote. all these things we're talking about, obamacare, immigration reform, building the wall. all of these things have come to fruition, so the frustration is coming down to the people in d.c. just not getting anything done. >> laura, i want to ask you. we've been talking about roy moore for the last couple of weeks in the news cycle, as well. because it's such an important topic to be talking about. but let's say, for instance, that roy moore makes it into the senate. and the republicans and the gop decide to unseat him, let's say. what are the optics like for the gop on that? does it help them? >> i think it would help them. i mean, i think that they shouldn't -- they can't allow themselves to be the party of roy moore. i think that would be the end of the conservative movement. so much of that they stand for is family values and christian conservative values and how can you say that homosexuality should be illegal. that it's a sin. that you don't think that trans women should be able to go into
women's bathrooms and stand on this moral high ground when you're allowing a child molester into the senate. knowingly allowing a child molester into your party? and so i think them taking a stand on that and refusing to tolerate it would send a really strong message ahead of 2018. i would be really surprised to see that happen, though. >> oh, okay, interesting. thank you all for joining me. appreciate it. i want to go beyond the headlines now. black friday saw a record in background checks for gun purchases in a single day. the fbi handled more than 200,000 requests, which comes after attorney general jeff sessions ordered a review of background checks. sessions' order was in response to the church shooting in san antonio when a court-martialed veteran was able to purchase a gun. and big tobacco got a taste of truth in advertising this weekend. a court-ordered ad campaign from the tobacco companies themselves kicked off and reveals how they made cigarettes as addictive as possible. the initial ruling happened back in 2006, but the tobacco companies used the appeals process to delay those ads.
and an act of kindness enacts the spirit of a homeless marine corps veteran who wants to pay the generosity forward. kate mckor raised more than $360,000 for johnny bobbit who gave her his last $20 so she could get gas for her car when he was stranded on the side of the road. now he wants to help people like him by donating some of his money to charity. and president bush is now 93 years of age. ronald reagan and jimmy carter were the only other presidents to reach 93 and carter is only about 100 days younger than bush. we'll be right back. shawn evans: it's 6 am. 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less,
welcome back, everybody. people all over the world are using the hashtag me too to share their experiences of sexual harassment and assault. the movement, it went viral after allegations against hollywood producer harvey weinstein surfaced. actress alyssa milano promoted the phrase in a tweet, seeking to give a voice to victims. and this morning, anita hill weighed in on the movement. in 1991, she accused her then-boss, clarence thomas, of sexual harassment after he was nominated to the supreme court. take a listen. >> i can't say that i was entirely surprised with the me too allegations and the stories that came out of me too. but i am just shocked that if we cannot look at those now and see, then we have a widespread problem in this country.
>> so joining me now is the founder of the hash tag me too movement, torana burke in studio with me. i completely appreciate you joining me today. why did you start this? >> well, we see why. it's so necessary. at the time i started do i think this work, it was to create a connection between survivors, young people, and eventually women, but definitely this has been a pervasive problem for a long time and it's been needed for a long time. >> but did you have a personal motivation to start this? >> absolutely. >> what was that? >> i'm a survivor of sexual violence. i worked with young people who had a young time talking about it, had a hard time relating. so it was an exchange of empathy between myself and the young people. >> and you started this a long time? >> yeah, 2006. >> so in that what medium did you start the me too movement? >> as a grassroots. >> there was no twitter. there was no hashtag. >> no, we started a as a
grassroots campaign and our first online was on myspace. and there was no such thing as viral, but it got really popular really quickly and we knew we had to expand our thinking. >> when you first brought it to fruition and you wanted people to sort of -- to get onboard with it, how did you sort of convince people to come out? because it is such a difficult thing for paem eople to talk ab. it is so personal, it is so uncomfortable. and people don't believe you. >> as much it was such a differ then. we had trainings and we had meetings with people. it was very interpersonal. in fact, i would be so hard sometimes that we had to have separate meetings after that meating with people to talk to them. so it was very different than now. >> are you surprised that it's gotten so huge now? >> i'm actually not. people keep asking me that, but> doing this work that it's so pervasive and it's such an easy way to disclose your experience with sexual violence that i'm
not surprised that it's so huge. >> this week, the house is going to vote on a reducing requiring all lawmakers and staff to complete anti-harassment training. >> mm-hmm. every job i've had, i've had to have anti-sexual harassment training. the fact that this needs to be part of a new legislation is pretty unbelievable to me, a. b, do you think that's enough? >> i think it's a start. i don't think it's enough. and i think that congress should definitely, if they're going to have a me too bill, it should be a bill that solidifies what's going on in congress, but also that supports survivors, really. like, if i was to have legislation, there's so much legislation out there for them to get behind that supports survivors of sexual violence. >> so what do those survivors need? what kind of support do they need? >> well, for one, there's legislation out there to support testing rape kits. the rape kit backlog in the united states is unbelievable, all right? there's legislation to be passed around a number of things. rain has a list of legislation that's on their website that they're pushing.
so i do think that this congressional sexual harassment training is necessary. it's needed, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. >> there are critics out there thabz that the me too movement is turning into a way to focus blame of sexual misconduct of men, to sort of turn the focus on men. it's become a blame man movement and all men are not good. what do you say to those critics? >> i say there are women who have been dealing with this for decades and decades and decades. i don't think me too is just about men. but i think this is a moment where perpetrators are having a light shined on them, i think i'm okay with that. >> why are people so uncomfortable with what's going on now? these allegation os of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and these women coming forward, one after the other? >> because i think it's hard for people to understand. i think people don't understand why women wait to disclose. i think people don't understand the gravity of the situation, when you're holding that kind of secret. and so it feels odd, right? people feel like if something
happened to you, there's some inji injustice, you should just tell. but it's deeper than that. it's a personal situation. >> what needs to happen for women to feel supported? for future victims of sexual harassment to feel supported? because it's not going to stop. it's always going to be there. >> it's been there since the beginning of time, right? we had sexual violence in the bible. i think one thing is legislation and policies that are not just passed, but enforced and enforceable. i think people would feel secure if they notice, for instance, there's movements now to have people disclose about sexual harassment anonymously and have measures that they can take anonymously. but i also think that we need to allow people the space, right? this is only a month old. >> i know. it's incredible. >> after decades of women holding some of these things, in one month, we've had the flood gates open. >> isn't it incredible it's only a month old and so much has happened? >> absolutely. in a way, it's sort of been a scary transition, considering how much people have been hiding and how people have been acting out there, but also all these women coming forward and now
stofrt freeing themselves about it is also really incredible and having the courage to do that, as well. >> can you imagine what it's like to hold something like that for so long? >> no. thank you so much. and thank you for starting the me too movement. a lot of women out there appreciate it. all right, coming up, everybody, who gets the job to regulate banks? more on the clash at the sple s consumer protection bureau and why democrats are raising a red flag over the president's pick. that's coming up. i've been thinking. about thinking. i mean, think of all the things that think these days. thinking planes.
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welcome back. now to the power play unfolding in washington. dueling appointments to the country's top consumer watchdog agency setting the stage for a political showdown. the department of justice releasing this memo saturday, giving pre ing president trump authority to name the acting head of the consumer financial protection bureau, or cfpb. trump named mick mulvaney to be interim chief. the question come monday, who's going to be in charge? all the confusion leading up to a possible lengthy legal battle. senator elizabeth warren tweeting out, if real donald trump believes he is acting legally by ignoring dodd frank, he should go to core and seek a adjustment right away to settle this cfpb dispute. the consumer protection agency
was created, by the way, back in 2010 by elizabeth warren, a direct result of the dodd/frank act. legislation put in place to keep an eye on big banks, of course, as well as lenders and mortgage providers, ensuring there wouldn't be wouldn't be a repeat of the 2008 financial crisis. let's get into this. i want to bring in my panel, alyss jordan and steve murphy. alyss i'm going to start with you. mick mulvaney has made no secret of the fact that he does not like the consumer protection agency. he said quote, i don't like the fact that the cfpb exists. i'll be perfectly honest with you. so why have mulvaney head an organization that he hates and, by the way, this is exactly what the president did with the epa? why put someone at the head of the agency that does not believe in its mission? >> well, mick mulvaney hates regulations and so i think that the thinking is that someone who can come in and actually reform and look at how the regulations
are stifling the industry rather than actually helping consumers. so i think that that's, you know, the contrarian thinking with the appointment but director mulvaney has a very full plate as the director of the office of management and budget already. >> steve, you think this is about reform? you think this is about mulvaney coming in and help reform the cfpb? >> i don't think regulations are stifling wall street one darn bit judging by the amount of money they're making today and the law is very -- no, it's not about regulation. it's not about any kind of reform. it's about donald trump's lack of respect for the law. he does not believe in democracy. he is a man -- he's a would be auto crat, a would be strong man. he wants to be the law himself and that what he says he's role as president. >> so, steve, i'll stick with you on this one. president trump calling the consumer watch dog agency a
financial disaster. and that institutions have been unable to properly serve the public. do you agree with this? >> no, absolutely not. of course not. when he's talking about the public, he's talking about the 400 people he knows in new york city. he's talking about billionaires. if there's some bill naires who are complaining, i can't do x or y to make even more money, then that's -- that to him is a scandal in washington. >> you bring up mulvaney not necessarily liking regulations. is this the m.o. of republicans had it comes to the cfpb, why they don't like this organization? >> a lot of republicans don't like the cfpb because it's separate of any congressional oversight, it's an entity within the fed and it's really been plagued by a reputation of being -- >> isn't that the point that it's supposed to be separate? >> but it's -- then you have just another unaccountable
government agency and i certainly am not one who supports giving the fed more power. >> steve? your reaction? >> the federal reserve board is what keeps our economy from collapsing when congress makes humongous mistakes like letting financial institutions do whatever they wish with their depositors monies, to speculate with their depositor's money. it is happened twice now. in 1928 and '08 and still, you've got people in washington like donald trump and the republicans who are following him, who want to let him do it again. >> i'm wondering, is this sort of a match between the republicans and democrats now? is it becoming more politicized than it should be? >> absolutely not. the courts are going to decide. >> you think it will go to the courts as elizabeth warren has said? >> absolutely. this is exactly from justice marshal on the way the supreme court has arbitrated situations like this, they're going to decide. the law that was passed in 2010
is the one that warren and dodd wrote and the republicans are using one in 1998 to supercede it. it works the other way around. the new law replaces the old law if there's a conflict. >> alyss? >> i think the courts are going to side with donald trump on this one. i think it's a very dangerous precedent to have unelected bureau kratz try to appoint their successor and -- elections have consequences and you may disagree with president trump's choice of who he chose to fill the position but it's certainly within his right. >> steve, you're shaking your head. >> that's not what's happening here. he can appoint a successor. he can nominate a successor and the senate has to confirm that successor. >> he wants to have somebody in as an interim successor and that's not the provision under the law. >> all right. thank you to you both.
final word. >> if we're going to get into the nuances of administrative law which i have no legal training whatsoever and that's something for the courts to parse out but i think it does come down to the definition of absence and does a resignation also supercede the vacancies act. >> the legislative -- >> i got to go, guys. i got to go. i appreciate your enthusiasm as we bring it into the sunday evening program. thank you guys both for joining me. coming up next. new developments involving two democrats politicians involving sexual misconduct. al franken speaking out for the first time and representative john conyers the longest serving lawmaker in the house steps down as top democrat. how will they be received by their colleagues on the hill after returning from break tomorrow? and following the deadly massacre in the mosque in egypt, is the extremist strong hold
what do you think the significance is of congressman conyers decision to step aside as the ranking member of the judiciary committee? >> him resigning provides future cover for democrats to be a little bit more aggressive and at least to be more balanced around this really complicated issue. >> i don't know what winning looks like with roy moore. if he wins we get the baggage of him winning. >> the president will have to make his own decisions on where
he thinks he is and why he's there. >> i think the president sees some parallels, perhaps, with his ownisation. he was accused of sexual misconduct. he won the election any way. >> trump's played his card. what does the republicans do? >> this will be a big test for voters in alabama of the personal versus the political. >> for men in the media, for men in hollywood, they are gone. the accusers are believed. for men in politics, there is always a hold on. who's side of the aisle? which side of the aisle is this? >> welcome back. i'm yasmin vossoughian. another week of accusations leveled against powerful men. taking advantage of women. where do we draw the line and when it comes to politics, does it even matter to voters as they head to the poll. joining me now dana mel back, jane newton small, and sabrina sadicky. welcome. i want to start with al franken speaking